The Substance (2024)

To kick off a new series, we’re starting with the biggest film of 2024 - that’s biggest by our personal metrics. Expect a detailed breakdown of the lens required to achieve such a revolting zoom on Dennis Quaid munching prawn heads and a rant about why this is not Demi Moore’s comeback.

References
Interview with Demi Moore, Margaret Qualley and Coralie Fargeat
A breakdown of the set design of The Substance
The kind of headline Lily doesn’t appreciate

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Edited and produced by Lily Austin and James Brailsford
Original music by James Brailsford

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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:11:13
That shrimp scene is iconic.

00:00:11:15 - 00:00:36:07
Welcome to groovy movies. My name is Lily Austin. And my name is James Brailsford. Hello. Hello and welcome back, everyone, to a new year and a new season. We've dusted down the old podcast mic. You know, delved back into the depths of what's out there in the cinema and streaming. Turned on our cameras and looked at each other again after so long.

00:00:36:07 - 00:00:57:00
I missed you guys. Missed you too. It's like. Like who? Who else do I get to nerd out in such detail about film each week? Yeah, it's weird not having a constant stream of, like, you know, links back and forth and and chit chat in the week, like, you are an ass. And I talk to most besides my my beloved.

00:00:57:00 - 00:01:18:05
So it's been it's been strange having a hiatus from that as well. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But here we are, ready and raring to go. That's right. And thank you everyone for sticking with us. I know it's been a little while since we've since we've been been on the air, as it were, on the podcast air. And, thank you for sticking with us.

00:01:18:05 - 00:01:35:14
I know it can be a bit disruptive going off the air for a few months at a time, but which we're trying to get and respective new career started. So, you know, which we try and keep this podcast going, but it's got to slot in into our respective work diaries. Yeah, yeah, it's true, but we're a bit pleased to say that we're returning to weekly scheduling.

00:01:35:15 - 00:01:55:19
The people have spoken and will be punished as and we have lessons have been learned. But it's exciting because we're taking a kind of a bit of a pivot on the format because we've we've seen how much you guys enjoyed hearing us talk about the production stories of the films we've been talking about, and we love doing that.

00:01:55:19 - 00:02:14:01
We love doing the research. We love talking about that, too. So this series, we're going to focus on that and we're going to look at a different film each episode and how it was made, what the actors were like, what nightmarish cellmates the director got into with the studio and, and basically all the behind the scenes gossip. Exactly.

00:02:14:01 - 00:02:32:04
Behind the scenes gossip is great because it's a mixture of soap opera and tittle tattle, with actual production information of how they made an interesting film. So you get a bit of everything. Yeah. Fun trivia you can share with your friends. Let them know that you know about film, but also like the juicy gossip that is actually what we want to hear about when we're talking about these people.

00:02:32:04 - 00:02:49:06
The good stuff, all the good stuff. We have waded through it and filtered it through our respective brain boxes, so we're good to go. Yeah. And to kick us off, we thought we'd start with one of the biggest films of 2024, and one that is tipped to do well at the at the awards season this year. Fingers crossed.

00:02:49:06 - 00:03:07:00
And that is James. That is the substance by Coralie Forger. That's right. I hope everyone has seen it. And if you haven't, pause right now, go to movie, watch it immediately. It's an amazing film. What do you think, James? Do you agree with me on. Oh, yeah. I thought it was a great I thought it was a great film.

00:03:07:00 - 00:03:23:03
I mean, I know you said it's one of the most successful films of 2024. I think we have to be careful with the metrics. It's like as in, hey, I said biggest. I didn't say most successful. Biggest could mean anything. It's a bait. It's a it's head. You got yourself covered. That, isn't it? But I know what you mean.

00:03:23:03 - 00:03:39:14
It's like it's the it's the first film that's actually kind of made a bit of a cultural impact. Let's say the good old pop cultural impact, it seemed, it seems to have kind of made ripples. Waves. I should clarify, it's actually Moby's biggest film to date. There we go. Yeah. So movie is the distributor of this film?

00:03:39:14 - 00:03:58:23
It was. It was a working title. Me they did that movie took hold of the distribution rights even before it went to any of the, film festivals earlier in 2024. And it's been a kind of a surprise mega-hit like they I don't think they anticipated it to do so well, but it for. Yes, it's not like one of the biggest box office wise.

00:03:58:23 - 00:04:17:12
It's not the biggest. But for a small, low budget film, it's done very well. Oh it's done spectacularly well. I mean, it's like back in the day, this is the kind of film you'd wanted. It hasn't made gangbusters money, but it's made its money back and it's made a profit. That's the whole point of the film industry. You know, if you're above breakeven, then we're all good.

00:04:17:14 - 00:04:47:15
But, well, you know, it is I so the budget was $17.5 million and it's hit around the 75 mil dollars, which apparently with its huge advertising campaign, it may not quite break even, which just tells you how crazy it is, how much money goes into these film productions and well into the to the marketing. Exactly. It's the marketing and the fact that, you know, you only get about 40 or 50% of the box office receipts.

00:04:47:15 - 00:05:09:07
Back to the film, the production company who made it, because obviously the cinema takes a cut. So yeah, it still it's still got a long way to go. But I mean, it's also I think audience tastes have changed, like, this is the kind of film that, you know, very much reminds me of something like The Fly from the 1980s, you know, these kind of body horror films, which I think had much more mainstream appeal than they do now.

00:05:09:07 - 00:05:25:22
I think, you know, I think you got a bigger audience turning out for body horror, like we had RoboCop, we had The Fly. And I don't know that the numbers are still mad, but I think they were much more in the mainstream of what Hollywood produce, where this isn't a mainstream Hollywood film. This is a, you know, it's it's it's an indie film to a degree.

00:05:25:22 - 00:05:46:15
It's actually a newspaper working title. But I, I agree that I think that Hollywood has it's misunderstood what the, what the audiences want. I think we can I mean, we can tell that from 2024, the number of flops are bet. Because I think you're right. Hollywood doesn't really make these kinds of films right now. But actually these kinds of films do very well with audiences.

00:05:46:15 - 00:06:21:21
Horror in general does really well with audiences, and that's the the genre where smaller studios can really do do well. And so, I mean, you know what? It'll be interesting to see what happens. Following on from this, are we going to get bigger budget, big blockbuster body horror movies because there's clearly an appetite for it. You know, in a way, because this film has this very clear kind of feminist storyline, you could argue that it's okay that women are 50% of the population of the world or whatever, but it's kind of, in a way, quite specific, quite niche.

00:06:21:21 - 00:06:43:21
But clearly people love body horror. This does resonate with people, so it'll be interesting to see what what yeah. What happens. Yeah. I mean I mean it was great because it was a proper authored film, you know, it was it was a clear director's vision there. And and it was fascinating delving into the behind the scenes, because it reminded me very much in a way, of a promising young woman, Emerald Fennell's first film.

00:06:43:21 - 00:07:08:00
And, I felt a lot of similarities. Then when I looked into it, it's the same cinematographer. And in fact, he was chosen for the substance by Carly for a year because she loved his work on Promising Young Woman. And I think you can see the kind of the connective tissue that the the hyper vibrant, the saturated, almost like, like like almost like magazine photo images that are also dark and subverted.

00:07:08:00 - 00:07:26:21
You know, that's very promising. Young woman. And that's all the way through the substance. Yeah. Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah. You can really there is definitely a connection that. Yeah. And also, Coralie Forge's debut film was called revenge. And I have to I haven't seen it, but I know it's a, it's a rape revenge thriller horror movie.

00:07:26:21 - 00:07:43:22
So again, kind of some connection there with promising young women, you know that that there's some relationship there I guess that's so interesting. But before we go any further, should we should we quickly do a plot summary for anyone who doesn't know what the hell we're talking about? But is intrigued to want to keep listening? Yeah, absolutely. Let's do that.

00:07:43:22 - 00:08:13:16
Yes. When I say wait, do you want to do change? Oh my God. Right. Okay. So so the film is, is about the central character, Elizabeth Sparkle, played by Demi Moore. Yeah. I've note I've got your note in the in brackets. They will come back to this but it's a Dynamo plays Elizabeth Sparkle who's you would say, if you're a bit, kind of an aging Hollywood star, someone who is quote unquote past their prime and is now doing very kind of Jane Fonda style exercise videos to make living.

00:08:13:19 - 00:08:32:17
So she's kind of aging out of Hollywood. She's made to feel like she's aging, helped by a lot of the male coworkers. So she goes to hospital London, she gets given by a, by a nurse. Some kind of very handsome. Yes. Very handsome. Some black market product called the substance. And this apparently will help her with their aging issue.

00:08:32:17 - 00:08:52:22
So, you know, after a particularly bad day, she decides, okay, she's going to go all in on the substance and, she, she starts getting pulled into what this is, which is you kind of end up, using a system of like, food that you inject, you end up splitting in half and having a younger version of you, and you take seven days each.

00:08:53:03 - 00:09:15:00
You get seven days of the younger person, seven days as your original older person. And so the film is that dynamic playing out basically because they both essentially, long story short, they both very quickly resent each other's lives and they both try and fuck each other over. Yes. And there's like a shared consciousness. So the idea is you'll be split into two.

00:09:15:01 - 00:09:36:05
There'll be this bad version of you younger, more attractive best version, which is who's played by Margaret Qualley. Very, very well, I have to say, I thought she did an incredible job playing this part. Yeah. But the kind of the kicker is that you have to stick to this week on, week off. You have to respect the balance.

00:09:36:05 - 00:10:02:09
It's a phrase they use, and if you don't, horrifying things ensue. And we see is Elizabeth's sparkle when she comes back after, after Sue, who's played by Michael. It after Sue overstays the seven day she's out party and she wants to just kind of go crazy. Now, this cute guy, she. Yeah. And then and then to me, most of the sparkle wakes up and she's got this withered finger that's kind of aged, basically.

00:10:02:09 - 00:10:21:07
That's all it is. But she's horrified by that as you with it. And then it kind of just gets worse and worse from there. And, I mean, I can't even begin to describe how kind of squelchy and visceral the sound design. Oh, it's, the, the look of that. Oh, the the whole film is very stylized, which I love.

00:10:21:07 - 00:10:49:16
You know me, I love a good style. This is this is my favorite. The sweet spot like these heavily stylized. But there's also clearly intention behind the stylization. It's not just empty stylization, which I think can happen quite often. This is, you know, there's a reason why it's like this is a reload, why it's heightened, I don't remember, there's an interview, a read with Demi Moore who said that working on this film with Carly Fuzzier is she said that she's a director who, like the the actor, is not the biggest part of the process.

00:10:49:16 - 00:11:06:11
The actor is just a part of it, which means that the actor is there to support the visuals, there to support the sound design. You know, he's not all 100%. It's about the actors performance that is a part of it. So again, I'm a big fan of those kind of films. You know, I like something where it's every part of the film was being considered.

00:11:06:13 - 00:11:27:00
But, you know, I think you and me both, I get the impression that we're both we're not natural fans of body horror films, because I don't really watch them that often for myself. But I love RoboCop, you know? But they're not. They're not genres I will seek out. I will watch the good films like Jesus Christ. I was looking away a lot of the time towards the last half of the substance.

00:11:27:00 - 00:11:47:00
So I watched that actually at a press screening, and obviously because it being in London and James, you couldn't come with me. Sadly, I brought one of my friends from work and we lit the whole time. I was grabbing his shoulder like sort of grabbing him, like looking, looking away from the screen. And everyone in the cinema was the same, you know, people were screaming and howling because it was.

00:11:47:00 - 00:12:09:23
So it was a lot because. Because the what's fantastic about this film is it's almost completely done with, special effects. So what I'm looking for, practical effects. Yeah. So there's lots of prosthetics. Prosthetics. Thank you. Yes. Though. Yeah, pretty much all prosthetics. Only a very few minor moments when they use CGI. And that is what makes it so disgusting and.

00:12:10:03 - 00:12:29:06
Oh, yeah. And like and you're really repulsed the whole way through, which is the whole point of the film. So actually, for me, I agree with you, James. Like, I don't I don't want to watch Body horror for the sake of it. A very rarely but but when it really is in service to the story so effectively then I love it.

00:12:29:06 - 00:12:46:18
And I absolutely loved it. I love this film. Yeah. So much. Same here. It's like like as much as I was finding physically repulsive, the thing is that that was the point and it worked. You know, it was so well done. Because you're right. If it had been CGI kind of prosthetics rather than real practical prosthetics, I think it wouldn't have felt as visceral, wouldn't have felt as disgusting.

00:12:46:18 - 00:13:03:01
You, you know, it would all felt a bit more cartoony. Your brain would be able to not feel revolts, but you feel absolutely revolts that you have to do it. And that's the whole point of it. But yeah, that was achieved. I would say mostly because they decided to do it with prosthetics. So that felt real and it felt tangible, you know?

00:13:03:01 - 00:13:29:21
So when when there's lots of sticking syringes into very gross decaying body parts and just it's just disgusting. But it looks and feels it because they actually went to the trouble of building it. Exactly, exactly. And what I have to say as well, massive respect for the director as well, like properly, putting their money where their mouth is as far as like commitment to the film in that she actually the close up shot where Demi Moore's character where Elizabeth smartly injects the substance for the first time.

00:13:30:02 - 00:13:50:20
That was actually a shot done by the director using her own arm. And she actually does inject herself because she wanted it to look and feel real. And so it actually is obviously something that's harmless. I love that, and that sort of ties in a little bit with where the story came from in the first place, because for Carly Phogat, it was basically her own life.

00:13:50:20 - 00:14:30:04
And she's talked about how she was always conscious of her own feelings about her self-image and how violent that could be, and then actually, how past her 40s and then to her 50s, it got even worse. And the sense that she would be erased, she was being erased now that she was getting older. And on the one hand was like very aware how sad this was, but also like, it is so real, you know, and so kind of wanted to do something with that and, and this kind of reality of life, for most women and I and I found that very interesting because you hear a lot about how the older you get, the

00:14:30:04 - 00:14:51:00
more confident and comfortable you get and more accepting you are. And actually, that may well be the case for little bit women that you're probably on always wrestling with these two things because, you know, our culture and especially like media and the toxicity of Hollywood also has its impact as well. So I feel like that really comes through in the script.

00:14:51:00 - 00:15:19:00
There's such truthfulness to it, even though nothing about like the film is so kind of fantastical and otherworldly in a way, you know, it really doesn't feel at all steeped in reality on like a visual level. But you really in the script, you feel the honesty of the feelings that Demi Moore's character feels during it. You know that scene where she's she's and looking in the mirror and trying to put more makeup on because she's feeling anxious about going on a date?

00:15:19:02 - 00:15:39:12
So I think it's so good you just like willing it, it willing her to get out the door. Go on. And we've all been there right. Like I've really. Yeah. It was like so familiar to me that feeling of like God I'm not feeling good, I'm not looking good. Let me just try and help. And the more you try and, you know, change your hair or change your outfit will make up the worse you feel.

00:15:39:16 - 00:16:02:17
And it's. And you can't pull yourself out of it. And so I loved seeing this sort of brought to life like visually explored in this way. Yeah. I mean, I mean, it's like with Emerald Fennell, Promising Woman, they're both exploring what could be in another film subject. Could be they would just be very issue based films. You know, and the film would be resolutely about that issue.

00:16:02:19 - 00:16:20:10
They would be perhaps more realistic, and you'd have conversations with characters that feel more grounded and real. But I think that would limit the audience appeal of it. I think by giving them like a genre feel like one of them feels a bit like a serial killer film. We're not right. Quite sure. The other, the other one is like this body horror film.

00:16:20:10 - 00:16:38:12
So we're giving it a touch of David Cronenberg. We're giving it a touch of what a mainstream Hollywood film has, but it's all at the service of exploring a theme, exploring an idea. And I think making it something that would broaden its appeal. Perhaps I'll just make it something that's more an experience in the cinema. That's that's what I love about both those films.

00:16:38:14 - 00:17:00:21
They've not forgotten the no matter How series is the topic, exploring is give the audience an experience, make them feel something. So yeah, you know, you feel things in both these, you know, speaking to a friend about the other day, she said, this is it's such a riff on a Zen pick, which I hadn't even thought about. And obviously it would have been, I'm sure the script was written, or at least sort of being worked on before.

00:17:00:21 - 00:17:28:12
That was even something that was in the conversation. But it's amazing how, yeah, this is literally it is like a Zen like take, take this injection and you'll magically be a better version of yourself. But here are all these side effects. Here's the cost of it, you know? Yeah, yeah, I never stopped it. And you can't like, it's just it's it's, you know, when you kind of that I'm like, oh that's it's scary because yeah, it's actually not so far from reality, you know.

00:17:28:17 - 00:17:52:22
But the film as well, the whole thing has a mythical feel about it. It feels like this heightened reality also makes it feel like this is like a cautionary, mythical tale, you know, because you're right. It could be specifically about ozempic. But I think the whole idea of, of of of us aging, of us perhaps being resentful of our younger selves or not appreciating younger selves, having it, having a relationship with a younger version of us that was almost idealize.

00:17:53:03 - 00:18:08:19
That's universal. I think that that will always be, you know, for the aging. I think it tapping into that feeling like, you know, all the way through the film, I was thinking about these issues. I was kind of questioning. It was making me kind of consider it for the duration of the film, which is what I think these kind of things should do, really.

00:18:08:21 - 00:18:35:12
If you if you tap, if you're tapping into something a little bit more mythical, you know, Elizabeth Sparkle, it's like the generic almost exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you've got Sue on the other side of it. I found it very interesting listening to an interview of Margaret Qualley talking about playing this part and how for her own sort of mental health, it was actually a very tough part to play because she is playing the idealized woman.

00:18:35:12 - 00:18:55:15
Right. And she obviously like, no one is that person, but she, you know, had to like, do a workout regime to change her body. So it was more of this, like sort of fancy idea of what a woman should be. And, and, and had to, like, take on this persona. You know, if you listen to an interview, her voice is completely different to the voice that she has in this film.

00:18:55:17 - 00:19:20:06
And there's a lot of excitement around Demi Moore's performance, which is incredible. And it's of any of the kind of Hollywood actors of this age category. She was the perfect one to play it because of what she went through in Hollywood herself. In her younger years, and even till now. But actually, I think my colleague needs to be given some kudos as well, because that is also a difficult character and complicated character to play.

00:19:20:06 - 00:19:46:04
Oh yeah, but it's because you're just you, you know, watching her, it's like, God, she's gorgeous. You know, you can kind of forget that. But they both as a duo, I think they're amazing. And especially because both of them are mostly just on their own in each scene. You know, this is a very isolated, empty film. There are barely any cast members, and most of their scenes, it's just them on their own in a bathroom or in a hole where in an empty flat.

00:19:46:06 - 00:20:13:15
And they really both and carry equally well, I think absolutely in your notes here, you've said Demi Moore is a sparkle. Hale is Moore's comeback, which fucks me off. Who would you like to to give give me more background as well. Why does that fuck you off? I mean, I get it, but let's explore that because I've got well, I just, I, you know, in the, in this research I saw a couple of headlines that said describing it as Demi Moore's comeback.

00:20:13:15 - 00:20:35:07
And that just pissed me off because when people use this phrase like a comeback, they haven't actually gone anywhere. Demi Moore has carried on working her whole career. It's just that at certain points, the Hollywood system or, you know, in the music industry, whatever it may be, just decides that you're they're not interested in you anymore. And then you didn't get as much attention.

00:20:35:09 - 00:21:06:09
And then so you're the idea of a comeback is imposed on you. And I just think that Demi Moore is one of the actors that I think has been so underappreciated and undervalued. She is an incredible actor, and because there's so much misogyny around why she isn't really recognized for her, the talent that she has, you know, because she once played a stripper, which, by the way, that film, okay, it's the questionable film in lots of ways, like the script definitely could have done with some work, but her performance is top notch.

00:21:06:10 - 00:21:29:22
But because of the character she's playing, I think she was really sidelined. Okay, I'm really getting off on a tangent, but I think I know grossly undervalued and I'm so happy to see her in this film because it really does show her range. And, you know, there are so few words in this script. She her dialog is sparse, and yet we we really understand how she's feeling and you really empathize with her.

00:21:30:00 - 00:21:52:22
And it's just, I think a really peaceful performance as well as being horrifying. And I mean, it's such a it's, you know, she had to be like naked on the floor with Margaret Qualley on her, like multiple times, you know. Do they really ask a lot of her in this film? And she just brings it. And so I just I don't like it having it being described as a comeback because I don't believe she ever went anywhere.

00:21:52:22 - 00:22:17:00
And I want her to be appreciated. So I, I agree with you in that I think maybe in my mind it's a comeback in the way that for perhaps for John Travolta in Pulp Fiction back in the early 90s, it was a comeback for him, is that he was always working. He didn't stop working. It's just that for whatever reason, he fell out of the public consciousness and this was in the Pulp fiction was a thing that brought him back into, like the pop culture.

00:22:17:03 - 00:22:37:00
It was suddenly back to like the 70s where he was doing Saturday Night Fever. He did something that resonated with bigger audiences, and I suspect that's possibly what we were. Yeah, I'm just being sensitive, and I understand that. No fair. No, no, no, that's that's why that's why I want to explore it with you. I, you know, it's just interesting to just talk through these things.

00:22:37:02 - 00:22:58:21
But hey, I love that she's being appreciated now in this film. Can we talk about the production? I love that this film is set in Hollywood but shot entirely in Cannes in France. Yeah, I love that this psycho geography, the kind of geography of the mind like it is like this. It helps with the whole stylization, the distance, the fact.

00:22:58:21 - 00:23:15:21
Like, I don't know enough about the light quality of Cannes versus what it's like in L.A.. I've been to L.A. a few times, and certainly it looks kind of like L.A. it looks close enough that I'm going with it, but I suspect for people who perhaps know it much better, it might be a slightly disconcerting experience. But that's the whole point of it, isn't it?

00:23:15:22 - 00:23:40:10
I love that I love as well the fact that in, Elizabeth Sparkle's flat, she has this beautiful penthouse flat with a huge floor to ceiling window that looks out over what I assume is Los Angeles. And, they were looking at ways to achieve that. At first they thought it was going to be green screen. Then they were looking at one of these LED volumes, which is where you basically have a huge TV screen that wraps around the set, and you project an image onto that, which seems to Megalopolis quite a bit.

00:23:40:10 - 00:24:03:07
But in the end they went with as traditional as it comes, they took a they call it a translate. So basically they just take a huge picture of somewhere and they blow it up onto a huge backdrop and they liked it. So that was the technique that Alfred Hitchcock would use in most of his big feature films. So it evokes that era of classic Hollywood, you know, you kind of you, even if you don't know what's happening, your brain knows it's not real, but it looks beautiful.

00:24:03:12 - 00:24:35:19
Yeah, yeah, I loved that because it was a small budget film. 17.5 mil. They didn't have much money and therefore they weren't going to be able to shoot it in L.A on location. And I love the out of a financial necessity they choose to shoot in Cannes. And out of that it fits the story because clearly they talked about wanting this film to evoke like a fantasy of like you said, like psycho geography are a collective understanding of what Hollywood is.

00:24:35:23 - 00:24:52:23
And so it's perfect to have a place that looks like it. It's got the palm trees, it has the sunshine, but there is. But it's not exactly, you know, there aren't street signs that tell you you're in Los Angeles. And they didn't try and recreate those. You know, they didn't try to make it exactly realistic. But you get this.

00:24:52:23 - 00:25:14:10
It evokes a sense and similarly small budget film. They couldn't have a big cast and big crew. And again, it really fits with the story because this is a film about one woman's kind of mental breakdown, essentially, and she feels very isolated in herself. And because the film needs to be very isolated out of necessity, that kind of feeds into it and helps create that sense.

00:25:14:10 - 00:25:36:18
So I love that. I feel like that's like an example of a bigger budget that isn't necessarily a benefit to you. You know, like it can often out of like necessity, you can often actually create the best the best version, the best outcome. Oh yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think the kind of the tighter budget meant that everything has a slightly stripped back, minimal look.

00:25:36:18 - 00:25:54:23
So there are quite big sets in here, but the sets aren't there, quite minimalist, they're quite stylized, which again, I think was an artistic choice. But there's also the fact that they don't have an unlimited budget. So they went for building scale. They didn't go for building details. You get very long corridors, very spacious rooms, but they usually block colors you know, they don't have.

00:25:54:23 - 00:26:13:21
They're not overly ornate. And I think that's that mixture of kind of they can't afford to make elaborate sets, but also it kind of strips things back for that, for the esthetic of the film. Yeah, yeah. But definitely all of that contributes to this sense of timelessness about the film, which Vijay said that she wanted to evoke. And I love that because that's an interesting thing.

00:26:13:21 - 00:26:42:04
Almost the most promising young woman were Demi Moore's costume in the film is very kind of classic Hollywood like old school Hollywood starlet with her big trench coat and her glove and but then, on the other hand, Sue Margaret Collins character, she's quite asis she's got this very 80s kind of style with her pink swimming costume that she wears, her workout classes and the sets that she's on.

00:26:42:04 - 00:27:00:10
And, and I think that that combination puts you in this timeless, out of time world. Oh, yeah. It's going to age very well. I think the film, because of that, I think trying to build any timelessness into film is is a great idea and it's all over substance. And another thing that when I was watching it, I was struck by.

00:27:00:16 - 00:27:21:15
I was struck by how there were a lot of use of very stylized closeups. And my initial reaction was like, that's a lot of work to film. So you'll often have characters that one of them immediately think of is Dennis Quaid kind of TV character, and he's having all of that lobster or shrimp, I'm not quite sure, but he's kind of having his way through prawns that everything is tearing his way through that.

00:27:21:19 - 00:27:44:12
But you get all of these very detailed closeups and different angles, and he likes a cigaret and you see the and like that they're really beautifully done. You can tell at times being spent on the thing about that, that would usually be the second unit of a film. So you have your mates Akali years, your main unit director, your first director, you'd have a second unit director and they would film all of the closeups and inserts.

00:27:44:12 - 00:28:02:18
They're a separate team, separate cameraman, separate add separate director, you know. But you can tell that they're so specific that I just thought, no, she's directed her own second unit and that rarely happens. The only main director I know who does that is Christopher Nolan. He directs all of his second and third and fourth units, and she's done the exact same thing.

00:28:02:21 - 00:28:34:01
There are there is no second unit on the film. Third unit. She figured out a way of having a very long shooting schedule. They shot over 108 days, which is a huge shooting schedule. But what she did is that a lot of it was with a really stripped down crew. So for exterior shots, they had six people in their crews and then they got rid of most of the crew and they just had like two people, her and a cinematographer doing all of the insert shots and all those cutaways for like a couple of months so they could spend ages on them because it goes when you're doing really close ups.

00:28:34:03 - 00:28:49:15
If it's the face, you might need to use the actor, but if it's body parts and arms and prosthetics, you don't need the main cast. That so you can spend ages lighting those angles and get them right. So that's what happened. And then then when they were doing the prosthetics and studio work, then they got up to 200 cast members.

00:28:49:15 - 00:29:06:03
So by basically being able to modulate how many crew and cast, she shot, the film for quite a long amount of time, and it meant that she was able to direct every frame of the film so she wasn't handing over to another director, which that it means it all feels part of the same design. So you're right, it truly is a very awesome film.

00:29:06:06 - 00:29:27:02
I love that you can feel it. Yeah. So yeah, yeah, it's like completely consistent all the way through. Oh, I'm not sure that shrimp scene is iconic. Like it just so disgusting. Like I think I, I flinched and looked away from him eating ripping off those shrimp heads more than I did any other moment in the film. And it's made disgusting because you get.

00:29:27:02 - 00:29:48:06
Absolutely. The camera's right there. This is really quiet. Yeah, you can even see his coffee stains on his teeth like it's gross. They actually they actually chose what lenses to shoot on based on getting really close closeups because there's different types lenses and the lenses they shot. Promising You woman on which called anamorphic, which give you this kind of Hollywood widescreen.

00:29:48:11 - 00:30:05:02
They didn't use it for the substance because you can't get in close enough with those lenses. That's one of the drawbacks, is that you can't physically get focus very close up. So they shot on spherical lenders, which allowed them to get really close. And then they put another device on the front of the lens that allowed them to get even closer still.

00:30:05:02 - 00:30:51:23
So they deliberately chose their lenders for those moments so they could really get in close raising. So to close, can we just talk about the final scene? So yeah sorry guys, spoilers. But we have to talk about it. So it's like the, I understand that the different prosthetic creatures costumes had nicknames. So when Demi Moore wakes up at a certain point in the film and she has aged dramatically since the last time, I, I think that was called Gollum when she's back, pretty much brilliant and hunchbacked, that then the final monster, I think it was called wasn't It cool like Monstro, Elsa, Elsa.

00:30:52:01 - 00:31:18:11
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this and I have to say, when, when this kind of final creature reveals itself, someone in the audience at the screening I saw literally screamed like, like, oh my God, it was. I was like, quite. And so I was like, okay, like rude. Like, she's not that she got the hell. It's a horrific.

00:31:18:11 - 00:31:41:18
It's a horror. Yes. It was. I was like, that's so mean. Especially because I then that's so mean to the horrific mutated God I had coming out of the back. It's it's it's shocking, I get it. But also Carly, if she very deliberately when they were designing this, this creature wanted her to be to have heart. You know, for us to empathize and be a sympathetic character.

00:31:41:18 - 00:32:06:20
You know, she was really inspired by, like, The Elephant Man and the French version of The Hunchback of Notre Dame. So that was definitely there in the background. And I felt that, you know, I did feel a lot of sympathy for this, like, but it was like amazing because it's it's shocking. This creature. But also, I mean, so funny when she's putting on the earrings and trying to curl her hair before she goes to the final platform.

00:32:06:22 - 00:32:28:16
So I'm six and six to me, Will's face on her face. So it's like, yeah, know it's it's a tragedy. Comedy. Horror, right? Yeah, yeah. It's really I didn't expect it to go there with the getting ready to go out, but goes it kind of it's like a distorted echo of earlier in the film. Demi Moore can't go on a date.

00:32:28:17 - 00:32:59:18
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I hadn't even thought of that. And what did you make of the Kubrick references? Oh, I mean, I love obviously being a Kubrick fanboy, I love the fact that it was a very film aware film. It was he was happily quoting and riffing on different and I. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's the moment when the monsters first emerges and we get a few bars of 2001 theme tune, and then later on, when the kind of the crescendo of the film is that the monster, will call it that.

00:32:59:18 - 00:33:25:00
I feel that bad. Click that. But Margaret Collins mutated version of herself goes on stage, and the audience take umbrage at that, scream at her, and then attack her. And she's kind of deteriorating. And as she does just this, like she just spews blood everywhere. It's like it's like a tsunami of blood everywhere. And then as she she she kind of has to run and goes on the corridor and it's just like in The Shining, right?

00:33:25:01 - 00:33:51:07
It's like it's, you know, army of blood down these long, empty corridors. Yeah, absolutely. But I have to. I was laughing the whole time. It was so funny, I loved it. I thought it was such a perfect ending to this film. Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's where it needed to go, I think. Absolutely. And then the very final scene is definitely a nod to Death becomes, oh, I've not seen Death Becomes Her, but but oh my God, you got any guys?

00:33:51:07 - 00:34:20:00
Anyone who loved the substance. And I'm looking at you, James. You have got it right. Cancer is one of my favorite movies. It's a movie from the 80s with Bruce Willis, Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn, and it's amazing cause Bruce Willis is cast completely against type. He's playing this awkward, nerdy scientist guy who's very bizarre. It's fantastic. And Meryl Streep and Goldie Horner, these glamorous, kind of Hollywood type stars who are competing against each other, always have.

00:34:20:01 - 00:34:48:18
And it takes this kind of body horror turn. And yeah, the final scene is definitely a nod to the final scene as Death Becomes That. And I love that. I found it because there was this moment during the during the kind of final horrific change. There was this like flashing light that kept coming in, that looked like the light from the hospital where Jimmy Moore's character kind of started this whole story.

00:34:48:18 - 00:35:05:09
And I was really scared that it was going to be like a she woke up and it was all a dream because do you remember the car accident that gets her to the hospital is so horrific. It's insane that she was fine. So I was like, oh God, no, oh God no. But they did like, totally like, it was like a kind of a a double crossing because it was fine.

00:35:05:09 - 00:35:20:20
There wasn't anything like that. We got the fully satisfying ending that we will we were hoping for. It was brilliant. Oh, absolutely. And I did love the ending, actually, the very last sequence, you know, beautifully arched back to the very beginning of the film and yeah, yeah, you know, it was it was the perfect ending to the film.

00:35:20:22 - 00:35:43:08
Yeah. And again, done pretty much all in-camera, very little CGI. Love that. Yeah, absolutely. No no no. Beautifully beautifully finished. All right. So that concludes our first episode of the new series. Thanks so much for listening. Absolutely. Thank you again for listening. And if you could find a way to leave us a like or a good review, it all helps get the podcast out into the world.

00:35:43:11 - 00:36:06:11
So we'll see you next week. Bye bye. 

Groovie movies is produced and edited by us. Lillie Austin and James Brailsford and James also produced the theme music. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Groovy Movies Pod or email us. Groovy movies pod@gmail.com. For more information about the films discussed. Check out the show notes.