Juno (2007)

Remember when teen pregnancy was a thing? This week we discuss Juno, the movie that reinvented this particular noughties trend and made stars out of Elliot Page, Michael Cera and the film’s screenwriter, Diablo Cody. 

We discuss what makes the script so good and why people hated it. There is also space to reminisce about the heyday of director’s commentaries. This movie had an excellent one with Diablo Cody and the film’s director, Jason Reitman. Is there a way to bring them back?

References 

Jaison Reitman on Juno

Diablo Cody on Juno and its critics 15 years later by Evan Nicole Brown for The Hollywood Reporter

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Edited and produced by Lily Austin and James Brailsford
Original music by James Brailsford

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Transcript

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I don't really care to see what teenagers are up to. Welcome to groovy movies. My name is Lily Austin, and my name is James Brailsford. Hello, hello. And this week on the podcast, we are talking about one of my favorite films, directed by Jason Wright. That's right, God, James, you interrupted my flower. I was going to give it a big, a big to do, but yes, sorry, took the wind right out of your sail there. Do apologize, it was, it's one of my favorite films. It is also directed by Jason Reitman. Also stars Elliot page and Michael Sarah, Jennifer Garner. It is, of course, Juno, 2007 Juno, absolutely, that's right, yeah, 2007 so I must have been 50. Was I 15 when it came out? My god, yeah, that makes sense, because it was, it was very formative teenage movie for me, for me and my sisters as well. You know, we got the sound check. We listened all the time. My sister even bought the hamburger phone that you see Gina using in the film, which I was very amazing. Wow. I don't think she ever actually installed it or used it, but, you know, we just wanted, basically, we wanted to be Juno and wanted to be in that world. What about you? Where did you see it? Well, I am I? It totally passed me by when it came out in at the time, it just didn't seem of any interest to me. I would say it was, you know, it was my wilderness Eros era. Would say that the mid, late noughties, I just kind of zoned out slightly what was happening with filmmaking. And also just in general, like these kind of smaller character led set in the real world, modern day, contemporary films. They aren't my natural home, you know, like I'm more attracted to more stylistic, more, let's say experimental, or anything more towards that is my go to. So there were a lot of reasons why it just completely passed me by. And then I was reading a roundup of the year. It must have been at the end of 2007 or the start 2008 was what I think is an Empire Magazine. And they were interviewing a load of different filmmakers and asking them for their various highlights of the previous year, and they interviewed M Night, Shyamalan. And of course, this was he was just starting to lose his edge, like he'd had two great films. It had two different you know, I was fully, fully believed he was going to be the next Steven Spielberg. And then he really signed, which is around 27 so it was just when everyone was like, hang on, is he actually the next Spielberg or not, anyway, but they asked him what his biggest twist of a film of 2007 was, what was the biggest twist for him? And so this is Mr. Six sense unbreakable. You know, he's been asked what his top twist was, and he said the ending of Juno. So that immediately put Juno on my top of my watch list, because I thought M Night Shyamalan said this small little film about a pregnancy is, like, got the best twist of 2007 so that's what engaged me to want to go seek it out and kind of go watch it. Oh, okay, I love that. That's really interesting. The twist at the end of June. I mean, that's a, it's a smart, yeah, kind of because, you know, because you know, because, because the drama weaves backwards and forwards between. Sorry, we're skipping way ahead here. But it is a for me. I watch it and it worked as a twist, you know, I wasn't, or at least, I couldn't quite work out how it got to the end, how it was all working out the letter that Juno leaves, what, what's on, what's on the letter? Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, let's hold on. Let's just rewind and quickly. For anyone who has been living under a rock and doesn't know about this film, I'll give you the log line. Well, I'll leave you to do the plot summary, Lily, because you've basically transcribed with notes and thoughts and feelings the entire film in your show notes. I love it, I know. Well, the thing is, the film is only an hour and a half, so we can actually kind of go through most of what of the film. And I think it's worth doing that, because it's an incredible I think it's pretty close to a perfect movie for those of us who do enjoy the naturalistic type of movie. But by the way, sorry, having watched it, it's a great movie. No. Dis, it was just that was just my mindset going into it. But yeah, exactly I unders. I totally understand your reservation, especially because, like, now, at my age, now I'm not that interested in watching teen movies. I have to be told that that's, like, excellent, like, I don't really care to see what teenagers are up to. So I totally understand that's just my personal thing. But I so, like, you know, I totally understand that, like, it would on the surface, seem not necessarily like the film that you'd want to have seen at that moment. But anyway, the log line of the movie is faced with an unplanned pregnancy, an offbeat young woman makes an unusual decision regarding. Her unborn child. I love the word because it's like this from IMDB. I love the use of the word offbeat because I when it's used to describe either people or films. It's only ever in like a review in the paper, no one ever in real life uses the word offbeat. Oh yeah, no. No, absolutely, but yes. Basically, we meet Juno. She's a snarky, very quick witted, intelligent teenager, and within the first few minutes, we learn that she's rather adorably seduced Michael. Sarah, they had sex. She is now pregnant and has to decide what to do with the baby, and rather than have an abortion if she initially plans, she decides to find a couple to adopt the child, and we kind of follow her throughout the nine months of her pregnancy. It's kind of nicely sectioned into the seasons of this year. Yeah, no. It really kind of explores something that I'd never seen in a film before, this idea of what, what are you going to do when you're pregnant that young age? And I wasn't expecting that that would be Juno solution. But again, her being this, what was it said in the in the IMDB, sorry, stripped again. She's a an eccentric or a quirky beat off beat. So, yeah, so it's a suitably off beat solution to the predicament you find yourself in. Yeah, and that's what you what you said at night, Sharma have said about it that is definitely something that I love about the film, is it's completely the whole way through. It's surprising. Every decision she makes is not expected, and the and just the film in general, takes lots of surprising turns, and all the characters change in surprising ways. And so he's totally right that there is a tote. There is a great twist at the end of that film. I think, as I've seen it so many times, I forget the twist element. But I think that is a big part of the film, the fact that, how many movies have we seen about teen pregnancy? Not really that many. When we think of teen pregnancy, we think of, you know, reality TV shows about teen mums in that same era, that kind of, there's a moralizing subtext to it, you know. And it's very much of these two options, of like abortion, which, you know, there's all this controversy around, particularly in the States, or having a child as a teenager, which, oh my gosh, as a character in the film, says, is a poisonous environment to bring up your child, and there's other alternative this giving your child up for adoption. I've never really seen that in a film before, and done in a way that's so there's so much warmth and heart to the film and so much comedy. So I love that about it. I mean, it's a will, they won't they film. But rather than being about a romantic relationship, it's about will, will she or Won't she go ahead with giving up her child to this couple? You know, that's the kind of the thing that's played with throughout the film. Do you think I don't find that it's about that? Because I feel like she's so clear from the beginning, oh no, I'm, I'm, you're having this baby. I'm not gonna have this baby. I never was in any doubt that she was gonna give up the baby. I feel like it's more of a film about different kinds of relationships and what love can be. There's like the main story of just her experience of dealing with her pregnancy. Then also alongside it, there's her relationship with Michael, Sarah's character, who is her best friend, and it's they did it the wrong way around, as she says at the end of the film, and like, had sex first, but subsequently she's her feelings for him are growing, and she's kind of navigating that. And then, as well as that, we have the couple who are planning to adopt the child, Jennifer Garner and Jason Bateman, and we watch as their relationship disintegrates, which is brought on by the decision to adopt. And so I feel like those two, and then also following Juno's parents, her mom, her stepmom and her dad, and seeing that kind of solid relationship, I feel like the film Johnny and JK Simmons, two fantastic actors we've got with with both quite protruding eyes, which I remember in the director's commentary, Jason Reitman saying that he was always drawn to an actors, and he thinks that's why an interesting, interesting see JK Simmons, because we've seen such a lot of in the past 1015, years. I think he's he's grown in popularity, but it's interesting to see him in a very much calmer role. He normally plays characters who've got a bit more bite to them. So it was interesting coming back to this film, because the last time I saw it was about 10 years ago, so it's interesting to just see that as, oh, right, a very different JK, Simmons performance, less less angry. But the first time I saw no, sorry, not the first time I saw this. The second time watching this film was on a date in Alaska, and it was round of this woman's house that I was watching the film. And she had, I think, her nephews, who were visiting with these like teenage boys. And so we all watched it. Started watching it together, but the boys got bored within like 10 minutes, once they realized it was about a girl being pregnant. And they were just like, we're going out to do some shooting with their guns. Because, you know, it was Alaska. And so they disappeared for an hour, and we continued watching the film. And then they came in all pumped up because they'd shot their guns for a bit. And they're like, the first thing they said as they came was the film was still on. They were like, has she not had the damn baby yet? Boys, this is the whole point of the film, I'm afraid, and this was your number one stumbling block with it. Oh my God, that's incredible. And what an incredible date to have been on. I didn't even know you've been to something incredible. Oh yeah, I lived and worked in Alaska for two months. I lived in the log cabin, and out of my window was a view of two mountains. It was wonderful. Working on Discovery anyway, sorry, no, God, what were you working on? Working on Discovery Channel's Gold Rush, the Gold Rush program. Any listeners have heard of that show about gold miners in Alaska? Yes, I was directing that show, not my TV career. To watch Juno while I was out there with some gun toting teens hanging around. It sounds thrilling. Yeah, and actually, my date was actually a waitress from from the, like, the diner on along this road. And it turns out, because they say that everybody in Alaska has a story, like, if you're not born in Alaska, there's a story why you're there. And she was, she was on parole from some felony offense that she'd committed. Do you know what the the crime was? Did you ask? Yeah. Do you know better than to it was her partner had done some I can't remember. He was a drug dealer. I think. Anyway, she perverted the course of justice. She lied on his behalf to try and get him off the hook, which is like immediately, Grand Jury felony, something or other, you know. But anyway, she was, she was in prison for it with the likes of them on your two month holiday. Yeah, sorry, your two month working trip to Alaska. Yep. Incredible, incredible scenes. Okay, great. Well, I look forward to a kind of Ozark style film based on Alaska. But back to Juneau. Sorry, I really want to, I really want to talk about Diablo Cody, the screenwriter of the film, because she is a very interesting writer. I think it's quite rare that we know the name of the screenwriter behind a film. She was very much a star writer at this time. Yeah, she was this movie kind of made a superstar. And she was, like, huge part of the promotional tour of Juno when it first came out. You know, when I was looking up, doing my research, she did in almost every interview she and Jason Reitman did the audio commentary together, which I used to live. I used to watch the movie with the commentary on almost like, like, on a monthly basis. I was obsessed with it. They had, really, yeah, they had this incredible report. I was trying to find it online, actually, because it was so good and so interesting, and there's no way of watching it online, I found one like PowerPoint presentation someone had posted online where they'd taken notes, but from my recollection, the notes weren't fully accurate, so it didn't give me what I needed. But you know what I was thinking, this is a sad state of affairs, doesn't it? Is that trying to get a DVD commentary now it's so difficult, you know, if you haven't got the DVD that just disappear into the ether. Well, this is the thing I need to talk to you about, because I feel like directors commentaries are almost like an a pre a pre podcast, you know, especially when it was more than one person, you know, like love, actually, not a film that I particularly like, but it has quite a good director's commentary, because it's the director, Richard Curtis Hugh Grant, the little boy, whatever his name is, sorry to the actor and Colin Firth and, oh, I forgotten his name, but the guy who plays the rock star in it, that amazing. Oh, Bill Nye. Bill Nye, yes, they are all there watching it together and giggling, and, you know, discussing and talking about memories from the film, it's fantastic. So anyway, so that kind of, like casual discussion about the film. It's literally, like a film podcast. Yeah, you're right. And it was, I was thinking, if I was like, God, you know, when they came up with that. This wasn't a thing with video. This came with DVDs where, oh, we've got so much space. We can put on as much as we want. Let's add these bonus extras to entice the viewer to buy the DVDs. We're gonna do bonus features. We're gonna have this commentary. And I'm like, how do we get that back? How do we make that a worthwhile thing to do again? Because it was incredible, and I it just depresses me that we can't get hold of them anymore. They're just. I know gone. It's sad. It's like, it's like a bit of a black hole that's happening. It's because I learned so much about filmmaking, like, I still regard the American Beauty DVD as like a film school in a commentary. So when you get the good sometimes, sometimes you get one, and it's just like tittle tattle gossip, and I don't know, sometimes a bit unsatisfying gossip No, I want my facts. I want my filmmaking facts. What we're behind the scenes in Alaska? No, no. But what I've noticed is that, for example, Michael Mann's Ferrari, which I haven't seen. I'm getting pushed on Instagram. I could pay money to essentially get my own DVD extras, but it's like a streaming service. So, like, you can go behind the scenes you've got, you can access, like, all the scripts, all the storyboards, lots of behind the scenes footage. So it's like having DVD extras, but essentially, you know, you stream it, rather than have to buy a physical product, which I think is kind of smart, but I don't think it'll be that popular? No, I think we've all got to, I think I would love it if they could add it as a feature, you know, on Netflix or wherever you're finding your film, just because it's like, what a waste. Like, let's put it out there. You know, because, because the whole business model, as we like to go on about, about streaming, it's fucked it, quite frankly, because think about it, they don't need to entice you to buy an individual Netflix film, whereas the whole point of DVD extras was, No, I know, but I'm just pay that money. Sorry to interrupt. God, I'm so passionate about this subject, but I know that there is no like you don't need to but I'm just saying we've got them now for all the movies that came before. Streamers, we have these amazing DVD commentaries, just like put it out there so I can select have it playing over the film, but I know that will cost something. It's not going to happen an NGO just for directors commentaries. I don't want them to be lost to the Sands of Time. But anyway, back to dire Blake Cody. The thing that I love about this director's commentary was the rapport that Jason Brightman and Diablo Cody had. They had such an amazing kind of connection and chemistry between them that it just it made sense as to why she was so involved in the film. Because it is not normal for a screenwriter to be as involved as she was. But yeah, tell me about the you know, about the kind of origin story of her writing this film, right? James, well, I only know a little bit, which is that she she found work for a while as a stripper, and she wrote a blog about her experiences. It seems like she was quite a prolific blogger. Just having a look, she had like different types of blogs, one where she blogged as a certain type of character, but this was about her real life experiences, and she found it just got very popular. So that's kind of where she was coming from, I think, yeah, yeah. And this guy, Mason Novick, found her blog, loved it, and reached out to her and said, Can I be your manager? Let's get you. I'm gonna make you a star. I'm gonna make you a star. Let me I'm gonna You should write a screenplay. And she was like, Okay, you weirdo. This sounds creepy, but eventually she kind of was convinced to work with him, but said, like, you know, I've got this book. I've written, I've written a memoir about my experiences, which wasn't really his bag. He really wanted to get her into screenwriting, but he was like, Okay, fine. So they published a book together, and then it was like, Okay, now I've done that for you. Will you now, please write a screenplay for me on spec. So she wrote the screenplay, ostensibly with the plan that they would put it out in Hollywood, and it would get her work as a script doctor. The plan hadn't been before she wrote it. It wasn't that this would actually get made necessarily. Most scripts don't right, but the minute that she finished it, and she wrote it in two months, so she was just like every day, thanked it out. Apparently, I remember her saying on the director's commentary that there was a particular scene towards the end of the film. Helpfully, I can't remember which scene it was, but there was a scene that she couldn't wait to write. But she was so green to screenwriting, and she'd never done it before. She didn't really know that you could just, like, write any scene you want at any time. So every day she's like, one day closer to getting to excited about, I mean, I guess it's a way to get motivated to keep, keep going. Totally Yeah. And she said, You know, I've watched an interview with her more recently. And she said, you know, it used to be that I had to squeeze in my moments to write. It was a luxury. You know, I was working at night. I was working also in the day, at various doing lots of different jobs, and so she had to really, like, squeeze every moment she had three to write. And now that she is as her job, a writer, it's like, hard to, like, get the drive, and she could never write as fast as she did on Juno, difficult second album. Syndrome, isn't it the kind of drive that you had for. First album, suddenly you get comfortable. Yeah, you need that. You need that hunger. But, um, but as soon as the script was put out there in Hollywood, there was so much buzz around it. When we've talked about the blacklist before, it was like the hottest film on the blacklist. Everyone wanted this, this screenplay, and after a few different directors like pitch for it, Jason Reitman got it, and basically they just started working together on it through through, the whole way through. I feel like usually that's not the way it goes, right? Like the screenwriter, once they've sold that that's kind of their job done. Yeah, she was on set every single day, which is very much what a show runner would do in a TV series, if you're a show runner, you're very much more. You have much more power over the entire production of the TV show than perhaps you might do as a screenwriter on a feature film. So that her being on set every day, that's very much like a show runner. And that kind of is interesting, because the thing that I've watched much more than Juno, that I've watched of Diablo code is is the TV the three season TV series that she did for Showtime that was exec produced by Steven Spielberg, which was United States of Tara. So again, for a second project after Juno, to be working with Steven Spielberg and to be show runner and lead writer of her own TV series, pretty good going, Wow. I remember hearing about that, but I never saw it. It was good. It's an excellent TV series, like half hour episodes, kind of comedy drama. Tony Colette is the lead character, who plays a mother who has multiple personalities, you know, so she's when she's under stress or duration will flip into these different characters that her family have to deal with. So, you know, it's like a it is a comedy, but it's also kind of addressing a serious mental health issue that this woman has. I feel like that is clearly dabla Cody's USP as being able to tackle quite serious, quote, unquote issues, but do so very much through the people and the characters who she's betraying. Do you know what I mean? Like, I think the thing that's so incredible about Juno is that very few films right from the minute you meet the characters, you really understand who they are completely and like, I mean, they surprise you, but the sense of who they are just feels so so clearly defined and so well drawn, you know, like there's even this moment where the stepmom, Bren mentions, she says something, you know, why are you going out there to East Jesus, Nowhere, which also apparently then became the title of a Green Day film after this movie came out. Because they love this expression. But I remember thinking like when she said that just this flicker, like, oh yeah, I could so see her being like a Christian and going to church, and then later on in the movie, Juno just is, like mentioning things in passing, says, you know, I could do so much more fun, like go to Brent, like, step mom's Unitarian Church, there are just these little things where, like, there's this consistency of the character she like, you can just really feel that Diablo Cody knows these characters. Know who they are. They're definitely based on people in her life. I feel like they feel so, so real. And there's this like, richness to the them, and that comes through in everything in the film. It's not just her, like, I think Jason Reitman, the fact that they understand each other so well, and he really understood that story really comes through because everything, kind of esthetically, even the soundtrack, it all ties together and like, oh yeah, characters that we see 18 you could, you could tell me that it was written and directed by the same person. That's how well in tune it seems to be with material, you know. So that's the sign of a good pairing of a director writer, that they clearly both very much keyed into the same the same esthetic, the same atmosphere. Yeah, you know, I was thinking I was like, which is like the B plot and which is the a plot? Because actually, everything is sort of on a part and sort of weaves together in a very nice way. But anyway, the what did you think of the relationship between Juno and mark this, the man who's in the couple who wants to adopt this baby? What did you think of that storyline? Yeah, it's a bit low. I don't know how to be more intellectual. Just be like, yeah, it just just, it's skating on thin ice. Maybe just feels like inappropriate what, what would your wife say if she was in the room, kind of thing? But did you? Did you see anything in her because it's obviously like, I, I read Jason Reitman describe it as their relationship is about them both being attracted to the other's age, rather than the person, or it being like a romantic interest. But do you know is it is exploring and interested in the idea of being older? You know she's doing this incredible. Grown up thing of having a baby, and she's like, as she says, like being furniture in this grown up couples life. And then on the flip side, Mark's character is, seemingly, as the film goes on, more and more unsettled by the reality of having, of having a child and instead is looking back at his life and wanting to be in a band again, wanting to be a teenager like Juno. I don't know. Like, what did you think of that storyline? I mean, yeah, I liked it to me. I saw the storyline more as Juno just checking that she was okay with this guy raising her kid like she wanted a kid to have a cool dad. That was what I took from, from the kind of what they're working each other out a little bit. And I guess she's, he's almost figuring the same like, what's the actual mother of my child? Is she a cool person? It felt like they were just wanted to make sure that they're that she had her child was going to be in quote, unquote, safe hands, because I don't think she bonded initially as much with the mother played by Jennifer Garner. I mean, I think I've not seen Jennifer Garner in many films, but I think she's great in this. She kind of totally nails it, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's her best performance. Not that I've seen that many movies of hers, but yeah. I mean, she just absolutely nails it, this kind of like high achieving, but a bit cold seeming, kind of alpha mum, alpha woman character, I don't know, but she did. She plays it Pitch Perfect. But I think I love the scene where Juno bumps into her in the shopping mall, because she sees how much she really wants this child, how much, whereas Mark doesn't, but Mark's more her kind of person. She'd be friends with that, but, like, she actually would love that child so much. I don't know it was interesting to see. It's interesting see that how they counterpoint each other, both their attitudes towards having Juno's kid. Yeah, I thought it was. Again, it's like so impressively done because that scene where Juno first meets the couple, and they're both dressed in the similar way. This kind of, what does he call it? Uptight yuppies. He describes them as choking me to Juno, and that's what they come across as you get this idea that they live in this perfect, wealthy, suburban area, and they have, like, a perfect life, and the and and Juno and her dad in contrast, you know, like, are implied and a bit more kind of messy and normal, really? Yeah, absolutely. And the interesting thing is that, like the minute Juno speaks to mark on his own, they have this like rapport, and they're like just immediately, like vibing with each other. And whereas, in contrast, even though this is something that they're doing as a couple, Mark and Vanessa, they can't seem to, they don't seem to have any rapport at all. Like it feels awkward every time they're in a scene together. And I feel like there's something very, very relatable about that. Of like, when you see couples that are just like, there's something going on in their relationship because they're not at ease with each other, there's some tension there that is, like, unspoken, you know, and the contrast was quite like, jarring, even from the very beginning, the fact that he, the minute she Vanessa walks in on Mark and Juno with her jam session, and he, like, immediately jumps up like he's been caught. It's like, why are you scared of being found playing a guitar in your own home? You know, what's going on in that relationship? And so I just, I just think it's like, Pitch Perfect characterization. You know, it feels like, so, so plausible, which is why I can't believe that this film, like there was, like, there was this huge, like, Juno backlash when it came out, this, this whole thing about how it wasn't realistic. Like, no teenager could speak so intelligently, this kind of thing. That's like dissing of the quips in the movie. Like, what is that? I mean, you know, yeah. I mean, yeah, she's, she's way quippier than I could ever be, than any of us could ever be in reality. But, I mean, I don't know it's, it's a film, isn't it? Don't we want to see? It's like, you know, you go to see a particular kind of film for having quippy characters, you know? I Yeah, yes, yes. It didn't seem realistic. But then it's a film, and it would, it worked in the world of the film. It was nice to have this central character who seems a bit more worldly wise, a bit, you know, they're kind of more together than we than I feel I am, you know what I mean? So, so it's nice to see that kind of character. Yeah, she's kind of like most fruitful Yuki, the pregnant superhero in the comic book that Mark gives her at the end. She's like a slightly heightened version of our dream teenager, I think. And also, like, yeah, it's a film and it's a comedy. So like, those clips are just there to make us laugh, and they do make me laugh. Off. I love the way she speaks in the movie. I get that for some people, it might be a bit irritating, but I sort of felt like, I mean, I don't think that super bad is, like, a super plausible way, like, you know, the dialog, I've never seen it, but, oh, you've great movie, great movie. But like, that is another film where, like, you know, there is quickly, quick dialog between them. And, like, I don't, it didn't really get the same criticism. Like, I do. Think this is very much a criticism of a woman character speaking like that, that they that a teenage girl wouldn't be so smart. I was like, it's a comedy. It's not and everything. And this is the thing is just, what annoys me about it is that everything else in this film, I think, is, like, totally plausible, and feels so true. And anyway, either way, does it really matter? Do we need things to be like, totally, totally plausible all the time? Of course not. Of course not. No, no. In the world of the film, it totally fit in. Like, it's a heightened film. Everybody's a bit quippier in the film. Everybody just kind of says the best thing to say at the time that that's kind of what that's good writing, I think, but, um, but, yeah. I mean, I didn't realize it had a bit of a backlash. Because, I mean, obviously it did great guns at the box office. God damn. Any production company would love that 7 million budget, 232, big ones. I know when I first read that, okay, I have a bit of an issue with i Guys, I'm dyslexic, but it particularly comes out in like numbers. I often mix up numbers and do stupid things with numbers. So when I saw 230, 2 million written out and with all the zeros, I was like, Is this my dyslexia acting up? That can't be they. It kind of made that match. But it was absolute fashion. I guess that's also part of it, right? Like, a small budget movie that breaks out and is everywhere, because I remember, it really was everywhere. And they were, they there was this, like, huge marketing push around the film. And also, and, you know, Diablo Cody got a, won the Oscar for Best Screenplay. You know, it was like, definitely the film of that year, I think, and and so it's kind of inevitable. I guess a few people are going to come back and and argue against it. You know, it's an easy, it's easy to take the opposite perspective. I think, yeah, yeah. And it's just as well, God, back in the day when a little small character piece could get quarter of a million, quarter of a billion, sorry, at the box office. Just nowadays, I think that kind of thing will go to netflix and probably just kind of, you know, get lost in the mix. This is the other thing that people are saying about streaming, is films just get lost in the mix. You know, they don't put lots of money advertising individual films, like a studio will pushing cinematic release so, yeah, yeah, you were, I could, I could. So see this film being made for Amazon, and then going into cinemas for two weeks, tokenistically, and then just going to streaming and maybe, and being a big hit on streaming. But still, it's, yeah, it's a real shame streaming. I mean, no one makes some money on streaming. What I want to see is quarter of a billion dollars in my bank account from get this crazy business model, people paying money for tickets to go and see a film. Because, you know, also the movie being a small budget movie, when Jennifer Garner signed on, she agreed to, rather than take her normal fee, she would do it by like a percentage point, you know, and so and so to this day, that movie she was, you know, she did that because she didn't think the film was going to make any money, but wanted to make it. And instead, this film has continued to pay out to her for like, years since, and sort of in a similar vein, this movie really did make everyone in the movies career that changed everyone's careers. You know, it was, as we were saying, Diablo Cody's first screenplay, and she's gone on to have, like, a really solid career. Jennifer's Body, Tully, you know, so many movies. And Jason Reitman, like, he's a pretty solid, like, well known director, but he wasn't really a big name at that point, and this film, just like, completely changed that. And Michael, Sarah, too. I mean, he was, I think that moved him into being like the, like, recognizable, known actor that he is today. Yeah. But Jason Reitman, I don't want to he's taken over the family business. I want to get him back out of the family business. What do you mean? Well, his dad directed Ghostbusters, and now he's directing Ghostbusters. It's like the family business. Ivan Reitman, his dad. I knew that his dad made Joe's busters. I didn't realize he did the new Ghostbusters. Yes, yeah. Jason Ramsden, the last two, which I saw the first one of the two, and he was okay, you know, but you know, not the best use of his talents. That's the sad thing. But also, man's got to pay the bills. Well, I know that. I mean, when I, when I, I remember him talking about Juno and saying that, you know, it didn't make sense to make movies for money. You're never going to succeed. That way he should have heeded his own advice, really. Because, I mean, what I love about his like back are you going to hold him accountable to a David E commentary from 15 years ago? I think he should. Well, I'm just saying, you know, he was right then, and it's his own back catalog is probably given that point, but I like you know, it's when you think about the other movies he made around that time. Thank You for Smoking and up in the air. I feel like they are kind of Juno is a slightly different tonally and kind of esthetically to these movies, but there is, like, a kind of connection, I think, between them again, like the grounding of the story is like a big kind of issue, and then it's following these kind of smart, like, funny characters who are very human as they like, navigate that. And I, I like that as, like, a blueprint for a film. So I hope he goes back to that kind of thing. He is hoping. He is hoping. I wonder what Diablo COVID has got lined up next for us. Well, you know, she wrote Lisa Frankenstein, which came out a few months ago in the UK. I haven't seen it yet, but I was thinking as, maybe as part of a like Frankenstein universe. We should watch this like you can even do like a series on it, honestly, you know, between that and, you know, poor things and all these films are influenced by that book. Do the Kenneth Branagh Frankenstein with Robert De Niro as the monster. Bloody hell. Another point. We should definitely talk about Jennifer's Body. The other I really want to. I never seen, I've never seen it. Okay, yeah, no, but it sounds great, yeah. And it's got this. It's like, part of the, like, pantheon of films about, like, bisexuality that explores these issues in like, an incredible way, like I always see it talked about, but I've never actually watched it, so we'll need to come back to that one for sure. I thought it was a horror film. It's both okay, yes, it's definitely a horror film. Excellent. Just just in case anyone was thinking it's going to be a nice little drama piece. Yeah, no, very again, a departure from Juno, I think. But it's, I mean, almost you could say, like, looking at this, okay, Juno, Jennifer's Body, Lisa Frankenstein, Tyler, there's, like, there's definitely a through line here. I think we've got some connection going on between like women and what it is women and also horror movies. There we go. What? Let's, let's keep investigating that thread. We'll figure out what, what the what the themes, yeah, something something women, something something horror, yeah, yeah. It was a very hot take, that one. Okay, we'll work on it. We'll do the research. We'll watch the movies. Excellent. Okay, well, thank you everyone for listening to another episode of groovy movies, and if you could find your way to giving us a review or leaving us a like it all helps get the podcast out to a wider audience, so we'll see you next week. Bye. Bye. Groovy movies is produced and edited by us, Lily Austin and James Brailsford. And James also produced the theme music. Follow us on Instagram and Tiktok at groovy movies pod, or email us. Groovy moviespod@gmail.com for more information about the films discussed. Check out the show notes you.