What does wine have to do with dentistry? According to Katrina Sanders, the Dental WINEgenist, "We sometimes get away from the heart of what dentistry is which is the patient experience. It comes down to patients presenting with their own ideas, attitudes, values, cultures, very similar to when people are wine tasting and they come in with their own palettes, their own smells that they remember as a kid. It's a very unique experience for each person to taste wine, and it's a very unique experience for each patient when they come into the dental office.
This episode of The Dental Experience Podcast is sponsored by Trident Lab. Dental Experience podcast listeners - that's you - you can write the code Dental Experience on your first case, and you can save up to $50. Simply visit tridentlab.com/dep for more details.
The Dental Experience Podcast is hosted by Ryan Vet and is edited by Earfluence.
What does wine have to do with dentistry? According to Katrina Sanders, the Dental WINEgenist, "We sometimes get away from the heart of what dentistry is which is the patient experience. It comes down to patients presenting with their own ideas, attitudes, values, cultures, very similar to when people are wine tasting and they come in with their own palettes, their own smells that they remember as a kid. It's a very unique experience for each person to taste wine, and it's a very unique experience for each patient when they come into the dental office.
This episode of The Dental Experience Podcast is sponsored by Trident Lab. Dental Experience podcast listeners - that's you - you can write the code Dental Experience on your first case, and you can save up to $50. Simply visit tridentlab.com/dep for more details.
The Dental Experience Podcast is hosted by Ryan Vet and is edited by Earfluence.
Voiceover: Today on The Dental Experience Podcast.
Katrina Sanders: Guys, I seriously have the coolest job in the world.
It's, it's acidic, but not as acidic as some of the other ones.
Ryan Vet: And, you know, red wine keeps dentists' teeth whitening business up.
Katrina Sanders: I treat every patient in my chair like they're a member of my family that I like, and I look at my suction and I go, "Thank goodness for you."
Ryan Vet: That's awesome. That statement had a lot of legs with it.
Katrina Sanders: Oh, wow. There you go.
Ryan Vet: And I haven't even had wine yet. This is bad. It's going to be a long episode, I'm sorry to our listeners.
Voiceover: This is the Dental Experience Podcast. Here's your host, Ryan Vet.
Ryan Vet: Welcome to another episode of The Dental Experience Podcast. We're going to do something a little bit differently today than we've done before, because I've got a guest who's not your typical guest. She is the dental wine-genist. I'm excited to welcome Katrina Sanders to the show.
Welcome, Katrina.
Katrina Sanders: Oh, hi Ryan. Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored. Of course.
Ryan Vet: And, you know, I'm taking a playbook from Minol. It's kind of Mocktails with Minol, but now we get to have a wine with The Dental Experience Podcast, it doesn't have the same alliteration or the same flare, but you know what, we'll give it a shot.
Katrina Sanders: Yes, I love that. You know, you and I both kind of are in the same vain of this, but I think anytime that you can have cocktails while chatting about really serious topics like dentistry, I just think it makes it a lot more fun.
Ryan Vet: It does. And you know, red wine keeps dentists teeth whitening business up.
So that's always a good thing, too. But today at the day, we're recording this not at the day it airs, it's a special day. Do you wanna talk a little bit about what day it is today?
Katrina Sanders: Yes. Thank you. It's I feel like it's my personal holiday. It is International Sauvignon Blanc Day, and it's important to me because sauvignon blanc is my favorite varietal, and I think it's just such a unique grape.
Do you mind if I give a little bit of a history of sauvignon blanc?
No, please do.
Okay, perfect. So, the sauvignon blanc grape actually originates in Bordeaux. In the, Entre deux Mers aspect of Bordeaux. And the reason why it has to live along the sea like that is because the grape itself really loves a cooler climate. From there, we've seen the Sauvignon Blanc grape move into areas like New Zealand, South Africa.
And of course, if it's a grape and it's going to be crushed into something and served in a glass, it's also going to be harvested in California. So, California absolutely has a fantastic sauvignon Blanc following, and it's prepared differently in different aspects of the globe. But, my favorite sauvignon blanc region is the Marlborough region of New Zealand, where the sauvignon blanc grape grows extremely well and ends up kind of mimickingnotes of lemon grass, or kind of that like fresh cut grass.
You remember when you were a kid and like your dad would cut the grass and he would smell? It's like, "Oh yeah," just kind of brings back those really fresh memories of that. And then later on in your tasting profile, you're going to get, of course, really tropical fruits - guava, pineapple - in addition to your typical clean fruits, like pear and green apple. High acid, short finish, but just really beautiful and crisp.
Here in Phoenix, Arizona, where we're always looking for the perfect pool sipper. So, this is a veriatle that you can just sit by the pool, ice cold, and just really enjoy the heck out of it. So, it's my favorite, you can tell I'm very passionate about it. It's my favorite varietal. And I'm just so excited that today, of all days, that we get to record.
Ryan Vet: Absolutely. So in honor of Minal, I know you've got a bottle there. I've got a bottle of Santa Barbara Pino, Pinot noir. It is one of my favorite varietals. So, let's go ahead and open our bottles as we get this episode kicked off.
Katrina Sanders: Yes, let's do it.
Ryan Vet: And if you're listening, please grab a, grab a bottle nearby, too.
Katrina Sanders: Absolutely. All right. And the best part, of course, is the sound of the pour, right? This is the best.
Ryan Vet: Oh, yeah, that sounds great.
Katrina Sanders: There she is!
Ryan Vet: And what are you getting on the nose there?
Katrina Sanders: Well, so this, sauvignon blanc, it's from New Zealand, so. Oh, this one's actually not - it's, it's acidic, but not as acidic as some of the other ones. I typically drink like a Matua or brand or Brancott or Kim Crawfor. I'm kind of a, you know, $8 to $14 bottle of wine kind of gal myself.
Oh, but very, very bright. High minerality on this one.
Yeah, which is kind of interesting.
Ryan Vet: So now, you are not only a hygienist. Yeah, I almost just called you a wine-genist.
Katrina Sanders: I am not only a wine-genist.
Ryan Vet: You're not only that, you're also a hygienist, or wine-genist, or whatever, when you want to leave out. And I haven't even had wine yet, this is bad. It's going to be a long episode, I'm sorry to our listeners.
Katrina Sanders: It's going to be great.
Ryan Vet: But, you know, you were also a level one somm, which is super exciting. Congratulations on that. And that's really kind of what kicked off us meeting. So we were at Dental Speaker's Institute jumpstart program this January, and we were at a Mexican restaurant out of all things, and we probably both had margarita is actually instead of wine, but. But I, I had heard you were the dental wine-genist, and I was like, "Hmm, I've got to meet you!" Because I myself love wine, I'm studying wine. I've done the "W" Sets, and I have two wine bars. The second one's opening, it will be open by the time this episode airs. So, love wine.
And I'm going to share - if it's okay with you, Katrina - what, what we did when we first met, 'cause someone there doubted that someone could actually guess a wine based on a profile.
Katrina Sanders: Yes. Oh my gosh, this is hysterical. I'm so excited that you're sharing this. This is great.
Ryan Vet: So, here's what we did. I forget who it was and I won't even - if I would remember, I wouldn't say their name now for fear of embarrassing them, but they didn't believe that we could describe what a wine smells like, what a wine looks like, how it tastes, its structure and all of that, and guess each other's wines. Noted, we have margaritas in front of us, not wine.
And so we had to describe our favorite wines and, and we both did that and we both got each other's right. So I guessed exactly what Katrina is drinking right now, and she guessed, what I'm drinking, a Santa Barbara County Pinot noir. And I actually had the opportunity, and I was just sharing this with Katrina, to meet Bruce Maguire, who is the winemaker at Santa Barbara County a couple of weeks ago when I was doing one of my frequent wine trips out there.
So, just super exciting, but wine is a fun thing to, to talk about, but dentistry is, too.
Katrina Sanders: Yes, yes. We need to talk about dentistry, I suppose.
Ryan Vet: At some point. But that, that was a great time and a great time at Dental Speaker's Institute. So, do you have anything? I probably left something out of that story. Do you have anything to add?
Katrina Sanders: Honestly, I think it was just so funny that we happen to kind of meet and be able to collaborate on that. And what I think was so interesting about being at that Mexican restaurant is that, and I don't know if you kind of felt that energy, but it was weird because you just looked at me and you were like, "Okay, New Zealand, Sauvignon Blanc."
And it's like, that's just so crazy to me, and it really is certainly a testament to the fact that people have such unique and sophisticated palettes.
Ryan Vet: Absolutely.
Katrina Sanders: And I think one of the things, too, when you talk about wine and you start to get a wine education, I don't even want to call it an education, but more of an appreciation for wine is that people have this idea that it's very highbrow and we walk around and, you know, and, and is there a part of that? Yes.
But I have to say, if you go wine tasting in Santa Barbara, you know, down into like Napa or like Escondido, you know, any of those areas, it's just salt of the Earth. These winemakers are like, they're farmers, you know? I mean, it's just, it's very raw and delicate. What, what these grapes go through and, and what these wine makers decide when they, they bought all this gorgeous work that they've done. And so, when you and I got to talking and we were sitting at that table, we're just going back and forth, I think, yeah, absolutely. There was a, an initial doubt, like there's "Okay, come on." But, as people started to listen, they got really excited that this is a really core concept, you know?
And I think a lot of people don't realize, for example, that when you're getting all these different flavor profiles in wine, It's not like when I'm smelling papaya and pineapple, they're not adding pineapple juice. Do you know what I mean? I think a lot of people think that.
Ryan Vet: I did.
Katrina Sanders: I did, too. I did, too.
Absolutely. And then when I started to realize, wait a second, not only is this the great, but it's the terroir and all of the gorgeous elements that this grape grew up in that allowed it. And then, of course, the wine maker's, you know, own spin on how they want to create this flavor profile. But, this is a grape that has been harvested, and fermented, and aged, or whatever that looks like, and this is the result and it's, it's just incredible.
So, I know you, and I absolutely share that, and I think just being able to sit down with people, we, we really had a, had a really cool opportunity to share a little bit more about the depth of wine culture.
Ryan Vet: Yeah, it was truly amazing and I feel bad - so, we were sitting probably with 12 other people at our table, but we were on the same side and there was one person, or maybe two, between us.
So we were talking around them the whole time. So, I feel slightly bad about that.
Katrina Sanders: If you were that person, we're really sorry.
Ryan Vet: Yeah, we owe a glass of wine.
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Just go in a really, this is not an episode on wine, but we're, we're halfway through it already. And I've only talked about wine, which is okay. It's different. It changes it up. It's all about experience, and that's what the podcast is about is creating experiences. Like I was saying, a couple of weeks ago in Santa Barbara, I went up to Los Olivos, which means "the olives" for any of you, Spanish speakers, sorry for butchering that.
But basically, it's where a lot of olive oil comes from, but there's a lot of vineyards up there as well. And, met this guy, his name is Max Whitzel, and he is from Germany, and he actually does old world style wines out of Santa Barbara County. And the cool thing about Santa Barbara County is there's so many different climates because of the East to West mountain ranges instead of North to South, and how the ocean right there kind of allows cooling to happen on one side of the mountain range and kind of through the valleys and just really unique. But anyway, so I'm talking to Max, and Max lives on the vineyard where he's growing his grapes from. He personally plays banjo to all of his vines, handpicks his own grapes.
Everything's limited, like only a couple cases. And I will tell you, I had a cab franc from there. It rivals, I mean, it was a single bridal, but it rivaled just about any old world cab Franc that I've ever had. One of my favorite French regions, it is St. Emilion. And I mean, my favorite bottle I've ever had was from there.
And I told him that this is like just a hair away from that quality, and it was just cool. So, if you follow me on Instagram, I did an Instagram live on it and Facebook live, and he played banjo and we talked and drank some wine together. So anyway, just really cool, but it's such an art form, but it's also a science, I mean the chemistry and all of that.
So, it's not that different than dentistry from that standpoint.
Katrina Sanders: No, no, it's not. And you're absolutely right. Really at the end of the day, wine becomes about the experience. You know, I mentioned earlier, oh, you know, this, this nose kind of reminds you of when dad was cutting the grass. Sometimes I smell a wine, and I can smell like, wet basement.
Like, you know, when I grew up and we would like play Nintendo in the basement, like that's kind of what it smells like, you know, just kind of that damp, mossy. Really at the end of the day with wine, it, it becomes what's going to pair well with the food that you're serving and what is going to be a wine that you can just kind of gather around the fireplace.
I don't know if you guys have fireplaces, we do not in Phoenix, we have like misters, cause it's so hot all the time. So, you know, we gather and, and, and really just kind of experience it together. And I think when we kind of unpack some of the challenges with dentistry, I think one of the things that we struggle with is that, with all of the elements that we learn in continuing education, the technologies, all the pieces that we have, I think we sometimes get away from the heart of what dentistry is which is the patient experience, and really whatever that is for our office, whatever that is for our patient clientele.
But at the end of the day, it comes down to patients presenting with their own ideas, attitudes, values, cultures, very similar to when people are wine tasting and they come in with their own palettes, their own smells that they remember as a kid, you know? And, and so it's a very unique experience for each person to taste wine, and it's a very unique experience for each patient when they come into the dental office. So, absolutely there are so many beautiful parallels. You could, you could parallel wine with anything I think. But it is, it's such a unique thing and, and you're absolutely right. There's science behind it. And, and because of that, it really creates a full body - see what I did there - full body experience.
Ryan Vet: That's awesome. That statement had a lot of legs with it.
Katrina Sanders: Oh, wow, there you go.
Ryan Vet: But one of the things that is also similar between wine and dentistry is the misconceptions. So many people have misconceptions about wine, and Katrina and I both opened our bottles on this episode, and you didn't hear either of our bottles open, which for some reason, it's probably on some Hollywood movie, people love that pop, but that's not proper.
Katrina Sanders: Yeah. Well, that's, that's champagne if you're doing it improperly. Like, champagne shouldn't explode, you know what I mean?
Ryan Vet: And so that's, you know, just there there's misconceptions, and education's a big part of that.
And I think you said it really well is the people that love wine and love to enjoy it and grow, gain that appreciation for it. They're not trying to be snobs, they're just trying to better educate themselves. And I think when we approach patients in dentistry, we can take that same approach. We know a lot more than they do about their, their teeth and their mouth and their needs for oral care.
And instead of talking down to them, which, you know, unfortunately working with some offices, they, they tend to do that. You have this opportunity to educate, and bring them into the fold instead of alienating, excommunicate them. What are your thoughts on that?
Katrina Sanders: Oh my gosh, a hundred percent. So I, to tell you this really funny story. I go wine tasting quite a bit.
You know, a wine region Southeast of Tucson called Sonoita. My friend, Keith, owns a tasting room down there, and he's got like two master's degrees in wine making from the University of Australia or something. He is so invested and involved in his grapes. So we go down there, he's got a gorgeous mansion.
That's basically his tasting room, and I think he lives upstairs or something.
Ryan Vet: That's not a bad setup.
Katrina Sanders: It's an awesome setup, yeah. I keep begging him to let me stay there overnight one night. He's like, "no." But anyways, we go and he's always there pouring and he, he studies you as he's pouring the wine and you're swirling it and you're tasting it.
Because he's, he's invested so much time, energy, love, blood, sweat, tears, whatever that looks like, into this wine. You know, there are such a spectrum of people that come to wine taste with him. And so, you'll get somebody who's completely brand new, and they've never done wine tasting before. So, you know, they take it, and they just like, chug it right away.
They don't realize like, "Okay, I gotta swirl it some, aerate it," but what he does is he listens. And these, these people, myself included, will say, "You know what, I'm getting this, I'm getting that, I'm getting this, I'm getting that." And at no point ever - keep in mind, Keith is incredibly educated in wine and viticulture - at no point does he ever say, "Nope, that's, that's wrong."
He says, "Awesome." You know what I mean? Because the reality is we have to acknowledge that no matter what that's, that patient's, that person's experience. You know, they say people that go, you know, hiring their som studies, they lick rocks and they eat dirt, and because they want to understand varying levels of minerality, most people haven't done that.
So Keith comes in, and he treats somebody who's completely brand new to wine tasting as if he's learning from them and trying to understand their palette. And of course, you know, in Arizona we drink a lot of dry, a lot of dry wines. And so if he notices right away that they were very off-put by the, this viognier that he just poured, he's going to start moving in - he's got a couple of sweets, so he'll kind of move in the direction of, you know, maybe I don't think he has got a Moscato. I don't even know what he's, what he's pouring right now that's more on the sweeter side, but he'll, he'll kind of take you more on a higher fruit profile versus high acid, minerality, you know, mossy forest floor, mushroom flavor profile. He studies and understands and respects. It's not, "No that's wrong. There's no way you would, there's no way you would taste that in this glass of wine," and I think that's such an incredible concept because when it comes to patients, they don't know what they don't know a lot of times.
They're looking to us to be the experts, but they're also looking to us to guide them in whatever their unique patient needs are. So, I think if we can take a step back and spend more time listening to our patients, understanding and studying, studying their palette. You know what I mean?
Really, you know, forward and backward because we could have a patient come and sit down in the chair that would be really great for a full mouth rehab case. Heck let's let's, you know, deep, clean everything out, let's do some ginger-ectomies, let's go ahead and place crowns on all 28 teeth you have in your mouth.
That may not work for that patient, even though that's our plan. Do you know what I mean? So I think the more that you can sit down and have an honest conversation, the more patients don't feel like, A, they're being sold to, B, they're getting a templated treatment plan and, C, that they maybe walked into the wrong office.
Ryan Vet: That's good, and I love that. It's taken your, your insight and your education and using that as a force to welcome someone instead of push them away. I love those, those stories you shared. And so we have talked a lot about wine, a little bit about dentistry. Let's talk a little bit more about dentistry in our last couple minutes here.
You had some exciting news just come out. You are officially a brand ambassador for Dimensions of Dental Hygiene Magazine, which is my favorite hygiene magazine. There are many great ones out there, but this one, as we're talking about just the quality, even the paper's nice to get in your mailbox.
So, tell us a little bit about just kind of your, your road there a little bit more about your hygiene experience since we haven't really talked about your hygiene experience yet, and then some of the things you do to help hygienists.
Katrina Sanders: Oh, wow. Yeah, I guess we really haven't talked about my hygiene experience.
So, I've been a practicing hygienist for 12 years. I went to the University of Minnesota School of Dentistry, absolutely loved it, go gophers. And I moved down to Arizona, where I've had the esteemed opportunity to work - and I say opportunity not I had to, or I did - but I had the opportunity to work in a variety of practices.
I've worked in high-end cosmetics for some of the top cosmetic doctors in the world, I've worked in small family practice, I've worked for Medicare, Medicaid practice, and that really has kind of helped to build up my experience in kind of a multifaceted format. I currently work for AZPerio, which is the countries the largest periodontal practice.
I work as their clinical liaison of hygiene, excellence and innovation. And I have - guys, I seriously have the coolest job in the world. I literally - so I get to work in the surgical op with our docs, so when our doctors are doing laser osseous, traditional osseous or flap surgeries, I get to work side-by-side with our doctors in those cases, as well as seeing the new patients, welcoming them to the practice, creating that patient experience, and doing all the initial assessments and guiding the doctor and treatment planning modalities.
I also get to go into our referral practices and support and train our referral practices in perio protocols, so it's been incredible. And then on the side, I'm a clinical educator, international speaker, consultant, and I I've had the opportunity to work with some of our top, top, top brands in dentistry to really kind of elevate what their protocols look like and being able to reach patients in a unique way. So that's, it's not even really an elevator pitch, you'd be on that elevator for forever if I just said that to you - but that's kind of my spiel.
I absolutely love dental hygiene. And I do believe that the majority of us, if not all of us who get into dental hygiene, absolutely love it, but just like any relationship you're going to have ups and downs and ebbs and flows, and I've fallen in and out of love with dental hygiene, I've, you know, felt burnout from dental hygiene.
And so one of the things that I'm so grateful for, you know, in meeting you Ryan, and in meeting everybody at Dental Speaker Institute, for example, is just that there's such a, an incredibly positive and well founded network of people who are just as equally passionate about dentistry and really wanting to kind of elevate those standards.
So, that's been a little bit about my journey, and what I'm passionate about and, you know, of course at the end of the day, my goal is to empower and instill passion for dental professionals for us to do our best. My practice philosophy is I treat every patient in my chair like they're a member of my family that I like.
Ryan Vet: That last part is important.
Katrina Sanders: It is important, yes. So I think, you know, any time that we have the esteemed opportunity to have patients trust us with their care in the most intimate way, which is to be providing health care to those patients. I think it's important that we show up as our best and that we're prepared and, and really acknowledge the honor that it is to be able to do the good work that we're called and compelled to do.
Ryan Vet: Hmm. That is so good. And I know we don't have enough time to get into it on this episode, unfortunately, but if people go to your website, you've got an incredible story of being treated like family in a time where your family was going through a trial, do you - without giving too much away and still allowing people to watch an incredibly powerful video, I do encourage you to bring tissues with you if you do listen to this. But highly, highly powerful. I was able to be there and see it live when she presented. Can you give a 30 second overview of just how you understood the value of being treated like family?
Katrina Sanders: Yeah, absolutely. So I'm definitely not going to give a lot away, I really encourage you to check it out, but it was perhaps the most intimate and compelling of experiences that my family has ever had with regards to being treated like humans during an extreme time of crisis and pain in my family. And, as serious and raw and honest, and as revealing as this talk was for me, what it did for the dental community, especially the people in that room, was it drove home how, how truly important it is to understand every aspect of what it is that we do when we're providing care to human beings. So, I encourage you to check it out. It's on my website, www dot katrina, sanders.com. And, this particular talk actually was supposed to just be a 10 minute talk I did for DSI, and from that, I actually had meeting planners ask me if I could please write that into a keynote. So I've now written into a keynote, which is available on my website as well. So, I encourage you to check it out because it really, it was an incredible opportunity for me to, to share that.
Ryan Vet: Yeah, we appreciate you being vulnerable too, for everyone in the room and the, the many people touched since watching that video that weren't in the room. Highly recommended, there will be a link to that video in the show notes here, so no matter where you're listening to us today, you'll be able to scroll down and click that, 'cause that's so important just to, to value everyone.
And speaking of valuing everyone, you mentioned a couple of minutes ago about burnout, and that's a real issue that is really facing the dental profession right now, including hygienists. A lot of times, hygienists are on the same schedule that the doctor's on. And so, when the doctor takes a vacation, the hygienist takes a vacation and you're working usually three and a half, four days a week, sometimes five, depending on your practice.
But what are some opportunities you have for the hygienists that either are working full-time or maybe working as a temporary team members to just always reinstill that passion? Like what one or two practical tips could you give them?
Katrina Sanders: I'll give two practical tips. I would say the first one is mindset. And we all remember Maslow's hierarchy of needs from hygiene school, right? You know, it's, it's shelter, it's safety, it's clothing, it's, it's all these foundational things. And I think when we are rushing into our dental practice and we're temp or we're working and we didn't pack enough food for lunch, or we're not even drinking water, we're not, we don't even have - our scrubs aren't pressed, you know, we're like, "Ooh, did I wash these scrubs or did I pull them out of the hamper?" Even just those foundational things, that shifts your mindset, and it shifts your mindset to a place where you're so focused on so many other things that you're not able to serve your patients. So, it's as early as, you know, making sure that you're prepared in your day, you're hydrated, your scrubs are pressed.
You're ready to go. You've got snacks. And when you're driving to work, that you're not on the phone with your significant other arguing with them, or whatever that may be. Listening to music, listening to a podcast, like Ryan Vet's podcast, for example. There you go. And then when you're done with your day, celebrating the fact that you made it through your day without strangling any of your patients, you know, having a glass of wine and just relaxing and decompressing and recognizing that there's a lot of pressure that goes into what it is that we do.
So, relax, have some wine and celebrate that, and I think mindset is number one.
Number two, I would say is also along the vein of mindset, but find opportunities to give back. I think so many times we get so wrapped up in the frustrations in our office and "The doctor needs to order me new Cavitron taps," or whatever that looks like, that we forget that in other areas of our own country, let alone our own continent or the rest of the world. There are people who would give so much for the skills that we have. There are people who are sick, who are, you know, living with diseases that we could help address if we were able to take some time, you know, go there to be able to give back.
And I know in the humanitarian work that I've done, when I come back Monday morning, I feel so good. I feel so empowered, and I feel so blessed with the experiences that I had, and I look at my suction and I go, "Thank goodness for you because when I was in Mexico, everyone was spitting into orange Home Depot buckets, so this is a lot better." And it, so it makes you really grateful for the things that you're able to do, and it humbles you when people in the community, you know, try to give you a small little gift, like a little bracelet they made, or, you know, they're gifting you things because they recognize that you gave that.
So, I would say two major things with burnout. You know, find ways to re shift your mindset and the rest will come.
Ryan Vet: That is so good, and I really appreciate it. I just appreciate you being so raw in all of your presentations. If someone has a chance to hear you speak, you just are open and honest about the good, the bad and the ugly in hygiene and dentistry as a whole, so I appreciate you being willing to share Katrina.
Katrina Sanders: Oh, thank you. It's my pleasure.
Ryan Vet: Yeah. In the last 30 seconds or so that we have together today, I would love for people to learn a little bit more about how they can reach out to you, hear you, learn from you, maybe have a glass of wine with you. Hopefully you and I will do a program out in wine country sometime, a continuing education program, but until then, how can they get in touch with you?
Katrina Sanders: Oh, absolutely. So, definitely my website, www.katrinasanders.com. I'm on social media, Instagram and Facebook, @thedentalwinegenist, W I N E G E N I S T. You can find me on LinkedIn, Katrina Sanders, and my email, if you have any questions or anything I can do to support you, please shoot me an email katrina@katrinasanders.com.
Ryan Vet: Awesome, Katrina. Well, it's been wonderful having you on the episode today. It's been wonderful sharing a glass of wine, even though we're about 2,000 miles apart.
Katrina Sanders: I know.
Ryan Vet: So I hope you have wonder - I know it's a little early for you to be having wine, but we won't say what time we filmed this. It's afternoon. I will, I will say that much.
Katrina Sanders: That's right, yes. And it's International Sav Blanc Day. I mean, come on.
Ryan Vet: I appreciate your, all your insight on this episode and thank you listeners for listening to another episode of The Dental Experience Podcast. Until next time.
Voiceover: Thank you for listening to The Dental Experience Podcast. For show notes, to ask a question or for more information, visit www.thedentalpodcast.com.
The ideas discussed during this episode are the opinions of the participants and do not serve as legal, financial, or clinical advice. Until next time, this is The Dental Experience Podcast.