Note: This transcript is mostly unedited.

Brandee Nichols  0:04  

Hello and welcome to the tea on sustainable living podcast where your hosts, Hannah, and Brandee try and help each other navigate the big messy gray area of giving a shit about the planet and hopefully helping you along the way.

Hannah  0:16  

Each episode we have honest chats about our sustainability fails, sometimes amongst ourselves and sometimes with guests, while also leaving you with a little sprinkle of hope and inspiration to keep on giving a shit.

Brandee Nichols  0:28  

So go make yourself a cup of tea, get comfy, and let's dive into the episode. Hello Give-A-Shitters. This is Brandee.

Hannah  0:34  

And this is Hannah.

Brandee Nichols  0:36  

 And you're listening to episode number four of the tea on sustainable living podcast.

Hannah  0:40  

 Number four.

Brandee Nichols  0:42  

Yeah, we're really into this now.

Hannah  0:45  

I am getting into it.

Brandee Nichols  0:48  

So today we are testing out our virtual recording setup over zoom. We each have a fancy mic setup now.

Hannah  0:57  

Yeah, Brandee got fed up of having me over to her flat. I think that's what really happened. She's the the introvert at heart. She's like, How can I eliminate this person coming over so regularly? But no, no, it's good.

Brandee Nichols  1:13  

We had started with sharing the mic that Hannah's using, it's not really meant to be shared. The idea was to pass it back and forth. But that creates too much background noise. So I got the other mic, I was considering getting from the beginning where you can record sitting across the table from each other. And that's the one I'm using basically just kind of wanted to test out more tech so that I know more and can recommend recommend this tech personally firsthand, to clients. So here we are. I think I just got a little tech happy. I don't know it's fun starting a new thing and you like, want to get all the things that go with it.

Hannah  1:48  

Yeah, it was definitely like Brandee would be like, Oh, I'm thinking of getting some new headphones. And then I can think that afternoon just like I brought the headphones. I was like Oh, okay.

Brandee Nichols  1:58  

And then I bought the mic like right around the same time.

Hannah  2:02  

Yeah, and then bought another mic. Yeah. So, but I'm reaping the benefits. So I've got I'm nice and cozy at home. I still managed to run late, even though I wasn't physically going to location.

Brandee Nichols  2:18  

Yeah, like especially going into winter. It's cold. You know, we don't want to leave our apartments. Yeah, but we can still we'll probably just do a mix of both recording together. I also want to see what would sound better because in my place it's not have a big apartment, but there's not a lot of have curtains and rugs, but it's a little bit echoey Yeah, we'll just see what sounds better. And yeah, now we have options.

Hannah  2:42  

And talking of everything getting a little bit cold, and wet and rainy, well, not really wet and rainy. That's as if I was in the UK. It's actually not that wet and rainy in Spain. But that's how I think about winter still. I still think about winters being like really dark and wet and raining and cold. So that was kind of well that's not really what our episode is about. barbicide is about this seasonal holidays that come up when it's cold and wet and rainy outside. Yes.

Brandee Nichols  3:10  

Unless you live in Australia. Yes,

Hannah  3:12  

if you live in Australia, this episode is for you. But ignore all of the the cold references. Although something I found really weird when I lived in Australia was like all the Christmas music is the same as here, right? So it'd be 40 degrees outside and it'd be like, Oh, the weather outside is frightening. 40 degrees Celsius. That's why yes.

Brandee Nichols  3:36  

What is that Fahrenheit? Like? Over 100?

Hannah  3:39  

Yeah, it's hot. Yeah, very hot. And like they'd have still have like Christmas cards with snow on it. And they're just like, what, interestingly.

Brandee Nichols  3:50  

So yeah, today we'll talk about Yeah, the holiday season, which is Christmas for most people. But yeah, we'll probably we might, I might slip and use those interchangeably. But yeah, we just mean the general holiday season. And yeah, less about well, it's about like, I don't know how to be sustainable during the holidays with I don't know materials and, and those sorts of things more of just wanted to chat about kind of our feelings around holidays and the mix of like enjoying things and gifts and all the things that go with holiday season, but also feeling a bit I don't know, a bit of the consumerism, pressure.

Hannah  4:28  

Yeah, absolutely. But before we get into that Brandy is gonna tell us about the tea she's drinking. Oh, yes, I have to admit that I'm drinking a coffee guys. Off the back anyway, brand new. I know. Brand is gonna like hold the torch for the tea drinking of the town's sustainable living podcast host. Can you tell me about

Brandee Nichols  4:52  

it? Yeah, I've got my green tea here. There is Mr. Essential green tea. which is the most common type of tea in Japan. And it's delicious. But be careful. Don't make it with water that's too hot because it will be bitter and gross. So what I like to do is either catch it before, Boyle's just starts to simmer or if it boils, let it sit, put a splash of cold water, good to go. Let it brew for just a few minutes. I think some can brew for like, less than a minute, but like just a couple minutes, a little shot a little bit of caffeine. So I've already had my coffee, so I didn't want to overdo it with them. With more,

Hannah  5:34  

I love how that just suddenly turned into a little bit of a cooking show. A splash of cold water

Brandee Nichols  5:41  

will turn important if you're going to enjoy it, you know, you need to make it correctly. So that it tastes good. And loads of health benefits with it.

Hannah  5:50  

Alright, tell me. hit me. Maybe not with the health benefits but where it's from?

Brandee Nichols  5:55  

Yeah, didn't research. They have a lot of them. We So drinking green tea, which is most popular tea in Japan. So I looked up what Japan is doing for sustainability. And for I get into like the main project I was looking into for the Olympics that just happened the 2020 Olympics that happened in 2021. Because that thing that happened to us almost two years ago, while still happening. They thought it was really cool. They all the medals from the award ceremonies were all made from recycled, recycled metal and phones that people had donated.

Hannah  6:27  

That's cool. I didn't know that. Yep.

Brandee Nichols  6:30  

The medals in the spirit of sustainability, the highest desired gold, silver and bronze medals are all made from we're all made from materials recycled from mobile phones and other small electronic devices donated by the public. Which

Hannah  6:42  

is very cool. But I'm also sad that medals are actually pure. Bronze, Silver and gold. Really? Yeah, I don't know. It sounds. I mean, it's very cool. I'm not gonna lie, but I'm just also just like, oh, but a gold medal should be solid gold, right? Maybe That'd be nice.

Brandee Nichols  7:07  

I suppose that's a personal opinion. Yeah. But like, what? Your goal? Yeah. But then you would just hang it up on your wall. And it's not like it's like a piece of jewelry where you're out wearing it. But even still, for me, I don't really care about, I guess the actual material. Just if it looks like a great goal. I don't know. Yeah, we I thought it was cool. I think they did a bunch of other kind of efforts in the name of sustainability for the Olympics. I'll leave the link to that article in the show notes if you want to read more about that. But while I was reading that article, that touched on Japan's problem with plastic, and we just did an episode on plastic, so I'll link that in the show notes as well. But the project I found not really a project. It's a law that passed in June 2021, called the act on promotion of resource circulation for plastics. And from this article, the law encourages manufacturers to design products for ease of recycling, which is great, because I think it should be the responsibility of the manufacturer to deal with their products when people are done with them. It shouldn't be put on the consumer. So I think it's great that they're taking that now that that is the law. Let me read the rest of this next part. It also requires major retailers and hotel chains to offer plastic products that are 60% derived from recycled or biodegrade biodegradable materials by 2030. So we're making a law by creating a market for the recycled materials. Now that something will actually happen with them. Because if you recycle plastic, no one's buying that plastic to do anything with it. What's the point? That is the whole point of recycling and reusing the material? So now that it's a law, hopefully, yeah, that creates more of a market for the recycle materials and more people will do it. And and yeah, we'll see. I'm sure there are cons to it. I don't know the ins and outs of, I don't know, legal sustainability things. You know, there are pros and cons to everything. But I think it's a great effort. Great start.

Hannah  9:01  

Yeah, definitely. And, you know, it's a good way to Yeah, like you said, the, the fact that you have, you know, the recycled materials or like destined for something. Exactly. By having that. So like, I think that's really important. Because it's true, you can kind of do all these things and then be like, wait, what we who are they being recycled for? Like, why was it gonna make?

Brandee Nichols  9:27  

Exactly, we just really splashed up so that was kind of fresh in my mind. I thought that was pretty cool. So keep an eye on that. Again, keep the keep it up. Keep

Hannah  9:37  

non Awesome. Thank you for that contribution. Randy. You're welcome, Hannah. And yeah, now I think we're going a bit closer to home to spill the tea on ourselves. No tea has been built today.

Brandee Nichols  9:51  

No, I have not. Though. My tea strainer I use is not fine enough. And all the pottery bits are at the bottom part three to one matcha

Hannah  10:02  

Do you want to take that as a sign that you should spill the tea on yourself? First? What are your gray area issues around the holidays,

Brandee Nichols  10:11  

I've kind of gone in waves with this. Over the years, there was a period talked about in a previous episode of going through a phase of like being a minimalist kind of journey and going full on zero waste. And around that time, I just remember feeling like super pressured by the obligatory nature of gift giving around the holidays, and the consumerism aspect of it. So for a while, I think I just started giving gifts of experiences, consumables, those sorts of things, and then starting to have conversations about, you know, receiving those types of things. Yeah, it felt like it got to a point where it was like, I don't know, I feel like I'm just handing friends or family members, like a shopping list. Like, well, if this is something I need, or want, like, I can just buy it myself. And then the pressure, like you had this, you know, the holidays are supposed to be a nice relaxing time with friends, family members, loved ones in general. And it's like, there's this huge task of, you know, buying all of these things for people and feeling the pressure of society to consume and buy things. And I don't know, it got to a point where just wasn't enjoyable for me. So yeah, I started doing more, and a cut back on just giving things and was getting more consumables, or if I was with someone for holidays, taking them out for a meal, those sorts of things. My friends, and I would just stop, we just had conversations, like, Can we just not do this? Can we just take some, like one thing off of our plates? But you know, recently I feel like I've been getting pulled back into kind of the consumerism aspect.

Hannah  11:40  

Yeah, it's an interesting one, I definitely relate to what you're saying. I think, for me, I find, you know, gifts, a little bit stressful. I'm not particularly I don't, I never feel like I'm particularly good at giving gifts. So I actually quite enjoy when someone has a list. Because it's like, oh, okay, like, I can get you something that you actually want, rather than taking a bad guess. And I mean, this is just me as a person, but I'm very last minute. And then that's really not particularly good habit to have, when it's related to. Or it's often not a great habit to have when related to like, you know, the sustainable, or like a second hand option, because normally those gifts take more time. So I find what happens to me is I'm just like, okay, oh, crap, I haven't bought anyone gifts. And it's like the 23rd and I'm like, just gonna go into town. And, like, buy everything right. That's basically what's happened to me multiple years. I feel this year. I'm slightly born organized. But also, not especially. But it feels good to me. Like, oh, I have like several people's gifts brought. So yeah, it definitely feels like feels like the if you want to, you know, the well when we talked about the prime in the prime episode about how it's harder to buy, you know, if you're just like brick and mortar stores, the sustainable options are a lot less. So that doesn't mean some sort of planning ahead. And obviously if you want to get like secondhand, or pick up certain things and you really do have to be organized. So I find that's my like sustainability or like environmental downfall. I'm just like, I just need to get some gifts. What can I find? And to be honest, finding an ethic like a sustainable option just doesn't cross my mind.

Brandee Nichols  13:33  

And yeah, I think you can get caught up in you know, how can I give a sustainable gift to this person? And you only got a lot of resources in the show notes. But I think what's helped me this year as I like I felt that pool and that pressure so I did make a list and I did I guess yeah organize myself a bit early and was keeping an eye out and secondhand shops and online for various things for family members in the States. I found this episode going out okay, maybe I shouldn't be too specific about what I've done for family members but things that were Yeah, I guess consumables or secondhand Okay, now I know two already open so we I sent someone coffee because I really like coffee from sustainably ethically sourced fairtrade coffee, secondhand cat sweatshirt for my sister because she has two cats now. So yeah, I think it does require a little bit of time but also just being mindful. I feeling like yeah, you have to buy half a store for someone to show them you care about them, I think yeah, with a little thought and intentionality. You can I mean, by default be more sustainable just by doing that.

Hello, Give-A-Shitters, Brandee here. I just wanted to quickly interrupt this episode to tell you a little bit more about our show notes. Each episode has a dedicated show notes page on our website, the T on sustainable living.com/show notes where you can find more about the topic of the episode. In addition to links to any articles and resources mentioned in the episode, we throw in a few more ways for you to keep on giving a shit. From articles and documentaries to books and apps. We want each show notes page to help you feel better equipped with information and tools to take action today, you can think of it as a chooser on give a shit adventure. We'll also update you on our chosen actionable item from the episode to let you know how it's going for us. So after this episode, head on over to our show notes page at the T on sustainable living.com Flash show notes. All right now back to the episode.

Hannah  15:37  

Yeah, I think it's an interesting one for me, because when I was thinking about this, especially around gifts, is like, remembering my childhood and gifts was such a huge part of it. And you know, family sent a lot my like, parents say like lots of little gifts. And then great like, I have so many good memories. You know, I was saying I personally find gifts kind of stressful. But of course a lot of people love giving gifts, and they love receiving gifts. And it's like a part of a lot of major traditions like gift giving. So I don't know, that's kind of the gray area for me. And I feel kind of ties into some of these the sustainability issues where people find, you know, I think when people envisage a stereotypical eco friendly lifestyle, it seems like an unappealing because it feels like you have to give up a lot of things. Like, oh, I want to give gifts. Holiday, I want to Christmas, I want to receive gifts over the holidays, I want to wrap it up all all up in like, you know, shiny paper and put bows on it. And you know, I don't know. Like, that's, that's not wrong.

Brandee Nichols  16:48  

No, I don't think it's wrong. Yeah, like said if gifts are the part of the holidays that that you get, you know, the most joy out of then go all in there. And then maybe you I don't know, find a secondhand tree, or there are tons of options on Pinterest and online in general of ways you can kind of make shift a tree or I don't know, find secondhand lights like there, go all in on the thing that matters to you. And then either cut back on other things or find more sustainable ways to do other parts of the holidays that you don't care as much about. That makes sense. Yeah,

Hannah  17:21  

but again, how do you balance that? Because holidays? Obviously not really like a one person? Well, they're normally not just like, celebrated by yourself? Yeah, so you're like, I mean, you might, like I could say I find gift giving stressful, or, but I also know family members who spent like months thinking about it. And it's like the most something that brings them lots of joy. How do you balance that? Do I say to them? Oh, I don't want you to give gifts? I think there's I don't think that's the right approach? No, I think you balance all the needs within like a family environment.

Brandee Nichols  17:58  

You have to get comfortable in the gray area. And yeah, accepting that it's not just you, and that there are other people involved, whether it's thinking about a gift to give someone, you know, it's what would they get joy out of? They said they want this one thing? And I don't know, it's something you have to buy new and it's made of plastic. You know, you can't you do have to kind of draw your line, if you know they will enjoy it. Okay, buy them that one thing, because that will mean more to them. Instead of saying, Well, no, I refuse to buy plastics. I'm not going to buy you that. And yeah, I think, you know, this question comes up a lot into like minimalism, if you live with a partner, or roommates. How do you make them have the same values as you and you don't? The answer is you just don't try to do you the best you can. But yeah, except that there are things out of your control, when there are other people involved. I think it'll be different for every person, depending on, you know, depending on the person, the and then the people you're with, how much of a conversation you want to have, where you want to draw that line. Because families who Yeah, if you bring up if you were probably to bring up stability at all, how can we make changes that that might be incredibly offensive to your family? If they're set on traditions? And if that's the case, just do you the best can maybe reuse the same shiny wrapping paper or think of small ways that you can, that are that are in your control? And then just accept that there are things that aren't. I hope I'm saying that

Hannah  19:25  

right. Yeah, it's an interesting one, because I think it's quite hard to change traditions. And retain, like, the essence is like, how do we find and like go saying maybe sometimes it's not changing. It's kind of accepting how it is, or creating little workarounds. Yeah, or making and that's what I was thinking. I was like, I feel like it's easier to like, add on to already that tradition than like, get rid of or like modify certain ones.

Brandee Nichols  19:56  

Yeah, like if you have a tradition of gift giving, because that's a big part of your holiday. Maybe you do have a big family, instead of everyone buying something for everyone, maybe you pick names out of a hat and choose one person set a limit. And then you just focus on that person. Because then you're still, you still have, you know, the tradition of gift giving that just done in a slightly different way. And in the end, people spend less by less than probably feels less stressed. I don't know. And unless that yeah, that I mean, that might not be a good option for for people. But

Hannah  20:26  

no, I mean, I think there's definitely something there.

Brandee Nichols  20:30  

That's the thing. It's very subjective, very, you know, situationally dependent. Right. So it's hard to sit here and say, do this do that to have a more sustainable holiday season? Because everyone's holiday looks different?

Hannah  20:43  

Yeah, I think it's more the episode, we wanted to just kind of have that conversation about why it might feel like an area where certain like a time of the year when certain things come up, I guess you're like, within that the environment of your, like family, or friends or work environment, you know, all sorts of places where suddenly, certain things are being expected. And your normal patterns of behavior, your normal routines are quite shifted around around the holiday season, there's a lot more, you know, going further away from guests, but you know, there's all that like, eating out and this part is like, Oh, you're suddenly staying in someone else's house, like you have to kind of conform, or don't you, like, you know, you're seeing people you haven't seen for a long time, and everyone has their friend, you know, you might have to fly, like all sorts of things come up. But at the same time, it's a time of like, a lot of joy and tradition for a lot of people. Of course, you know, again, holidays, people have mixed feelings over the holidays. But you know, there's that kind of emotional intensity, that I wouldn't want to lose by focusing, you know, by being like, No, we cannot do this, which is both of neither of us have said, that's the

Brandee Nichols  22:03  

cancel the holidays. In the name of sustainability. Yeah.

Hannah  22:07  

Basically, let's not do that, because holidays are great.

Brandee Nichols  22:11  

Yeah, and I think, bring up conversations where you can with friends, and family, with friends, family members, co workers, whoever. But really, now's not the time to do that the minimalist say this all the time in their Christmas episodes. The best time is probably not long after the holidays start talking about next year. But it really is a time of year where you're like, sad when other people are involved, especially you're saying is when I was home, you just get comfortable with the gray area and accept that. Yeah, you can't change or control all the things.

Hannah  22:41  

Yeah, love comes up, I think, yeah, this is probably the time of the year. Well, that you have to conform, but like,

Brandee Nichols  22:49  

think about other people and kind of put yourself in other people's shoes. Yeah. And yeah, it's

Hannah  22:55  

really navigating isn't just navigating the gray area as an individual or as a couple or in specific relationships where, you know, you have more or less the same values, but with like a whole host of other people in your life who care about but have very different perspectives, or, you know, not even very different, but just different resources are different, you know? Yeah,

Brandee Nichols  23:22  

yeah, you will never successfully force your values onto the people around you. We can we can start to live your values around them. Yes. But yeah, I think, like I said, a lot. Can we, you can achieve a lot in the name of sustainability by just trying to be more intentional. A bit more mindful about the holiday season. And yeah, this is coming up. Probably a bit too late to start thinking. Just yeah, now's a great time to start thinking about next year, really? And how could you be more sustainable? What kinds of conversations can you maybe bring up with different people in your life?

Hannah  23:58  

Yeah, well, I think you've given a ton of awesome suggestions over that. That episode, brand new, you know, just like we're all in the mouth. You could do this. You could do that. You could do that.

Brandee Nichols  24:13  

Yeah, so I'll leave various things in the show notes. But yeah, yeah. Swapping out materials doing a Google search, or going on Etsy, trying to find handmade things. Yes. Look at thing, giving gifts of time experiences consumable, secondhand. Yeah, I think are all great things.

Hannah  24:31  

And most of all, after the, you know, few years, we've just had, hopefully we can find joy in the people we're spending the holidays with. Yeah, and, or if we, if we can't do that, then hopefully, you know, being able to connect in another way to do the things that that are important to us. I think that's, you know, you know, and then well, maybe I shouldn't speak generally but like, I guess for me, you know, the reasons wanting to try and be more sustainable and try and look after the planet is about, in a lot of ways about those human relationships, it's like about the relationships that have in the world. Like, you know, I'm not like an outsider, like we're in, we're in the world, like, all the stuff we're talking about is the stuff that makes like life. real and important. And for me anyway, it's like, the stuff that's really like valuable. So it's like, keeping that and having that as like almost like an inspiration. Like, I want this to be like the best environment possible for like, the people I love and future generations and all of that kind of stuff. So using those connections and bonds as like an impetus to like drive forward, you know, a commitment to living, more sustainable, sustainable life.

Brandee Nichols  25:51  

The main takeaway for this episode is you don't have to cancel the holidays, to have a sustainable holiday season, we can kind of pick and choose Start small ways to be a bit more environmentally friendly. So you're sure there's a link all of the action items you can do. Some are more or less friendly than others

Hannah  26:12  

might require some forward planning for next year is 2022. Yep. On the on the horizon. Yeah. Christmas or holiday season. 2021 first.

Brandee Nichols  26:25  

Yep, you're right. Anything else to add?

Hannah  26:29  

No, just enjoy. Enjoy. Yeah.

Brandee Nichols  26:34  

Enjoy. Enjoy the season. Don't get too stressed about everything we've been talking about in this episode. Yeah. Enjoy your time with family or friends or whoever celebrating the holiday season. And that's all I've got. Goodbye for now. Goodbye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the tea on sustainable living podcast. If you made it to the end, we can only assume that you've enjoyed this episode. Please consider sharing this with a friend or family member who could use some support on their sustainability journey.

Hannah  27:06  

And find us on Instagram at the tea sustainable living and let us know what you liked about the episode.

Brandee Nichols  27:12  

Alright, Give-A-Shitters, tea you later. Get it? Tea you later. As in see you later? So punny.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai