Ready Set Coach Podcast

Legal Advice for Coaches with Colynn O'Brien of Iluma Law Firm

• Emily Merrell and Lexie Smith • Season 2 • Episode 82

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This week, listeners will hear another guest episode with Colynn O’Brien, founding attorney at Iluma Law Firm and Business Coach. Colynn started her law firm for female founders in 2021 after identifying a gap in the industry for legal support for females. Colynn has been integrated with Ready Set Coach in many ways. Beyond completing the Ready Set Coach program herself, Em and Lex discuss how they, in turn, hired Colynn to help them get Ready Set Coach trademarked. They review different aspects of coaching where legal support is needed and where to get started if the category feels overwhelming.
 

Here’s what you’ll learn: 

  • How and why Colynn started her law firm specific to women founders
  • Tips and legal advice for coaches 
  • What it takes to own your trademark and what the trademark process entails
  • Different ideas to keep yourself accountable to be paying attention to the legal aspects of creating your business
  • The benefits of business insurance and how to get it
  • Types of business insurance that is helpful for coaches
  • What types of general liability insurance should you have as coaching business
  • And more!

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Lexie Smith  

And hi, call. Oh,


Colynn O'Brien  

how are you guys doing today?


Colynn O'Brien  

work good. I have a case of the Fridays on a Thursday. What about you?


Colynn O'Brien  

I have the same I was actually I don't know how it's already Thursday but I'm ready for it to be Friday. I keep thinking it's Monday, but this week has just been really busy.


Lexie Smith  

What is time?


Colynn O'Brien  

It is exactly every day, right?


Colynn O'Brien  

The short days the short weeks feel longer the longer weeks feel shorter. It's just it's it's a hot mess Express sometimes. So I get it. Lexie, you had a big week.


Lexie Smith  

Did I? I did. I did. I am I am rebranded my agencies that we're talking about and how to photoshoot. Oh, I did those two things, which was really cool. And, um, before we talked about those brands, what I do want to talk about more, we're not going to talk about those brands. But thank you for making me feel acknowledged and seen and heard. I love you. We know Colin, guys, obviously, she's on this podcast right now. We know college are ready to coach again, obviously, cuz she's on this podcast right now. But I want to go back and call in how did we enter each other's lives? What was our actually do you even know that meet cute?


Colynn O'Brien  

Yeah, actually, I had met Emily through another coaching program. And I went to some of our secondary Society events. And then you guys had started Ready, Set coach. And I was like, Oh, that's awesome. And I had seen some of your content to LAX. And I was like, I want to know both of them. So then I joined it and was in your first cohort.


Colynn O'Brien  

Yeah, you were in our very first cohort, which we haven't changed much from it, except now that you can now we've changed a lot. We've changed a lot. What have we changed flex,


Lexie Smith  

we don't have it anymore. We retired the group cohort and we put all the content into what is now our POS, our passive, ready, set coach launch pack. But calling was in the very first cohort, which I believe and Emily believes that any first iteration of anything, especially with a group should be also a form of co creation. So while Emily, and I set the container and obviously had the teachings, you know, laid out Colin really was such a key part and helping us evolve the program and the community to where it is today.


Colynn O'Brien  

And it's so cool. It was him saying on a personal side, too. I think we were all pregnant around the same time. So we all were while we birth Ready, Set coach, we were also growing eyeballs. And that was pretty neat to see us all give birth, I think within like months. No,


Colynn O'Brien  

no, I think and I think Lex announced that she was pregnant in a cohort one week and then the next week I announced that I was pregnant everyone, so it was really cool.


Lexie Smith  

I can't remember if Ashlyn came first or your son came first.


Colynn O'Brien  

I think Ashlyn is like, what is she March? So March 29? Yeah, April 13. So are two weeks.


Lexie Smith  

I think we're two weeks to the day. Yeah, I


Colynn O'Brien  

think so.


Colynn O'Brien  

Such as so funny. It was very fun. Well, we're so happy to have you for years. Oh, my God, five. You know, what, years, three years? Three years later? I was like, how many years? Has it been math is really hard today, guys. My brain is on the machine aside. So call him before we dive too deep asking you deep questions. We would love to know who you are and what you do.


Colynn O'Brien  

Yeah, so I have I started my law firm for female founders back in 2021. And then I also have another company that is a legal education company for female founders as basically, most of you I'm sure you both know that there's just a huge gap kind of in the support that women need legally, most people just don't have, you know, that basic just legal knowledge that lawyers have. That's why we're lawyers. So I kind of started that to make sure that everyone did have access to the legal tools and education that they needed to get started. So I have a contract template that she's legit. My other company is a legal education company where I sell contract templates. I'm going to do an online course at some point, but I haven't gotten there yet. Because I also am the mother of a two year old and a dog moms.


Colynn O'Brien  

See you're not busy at all is no not at all. Basically. Sorry.


Lexie Smith  

With my turn, do you Lexi guys, it's really fun coasting some time when there's no script to this thing. If you watch on YouTube, you can see the awkward passing of glances between m&a. So Colin is been integrated with ReadySet coach in so many ways you heard about the cohort. She's also a wonderful friend. We've also hired heard her and call in what did you do for Ready, Set coach,


Colynn O'Brien  

I helped you guys with your trademark search, which is what you do before your trademark application. And then once that came back clear, sorry, I'm getting my hands on the camera here. Once that came back clear, we did your trademark application. And ultimately it registered. So congratulations, you both now own your brand. So you don't have to worry about any of the rebranding or things that come along with that. So that's one thing that I love doing for my clients, because then they know they own everything, everything that they've invested in, they don't want to have to go back and redo. So super excited for you guys. And it's just great.


Colynn O'Brien  

It's a scary, I thought, Lexie, I mean, I think we've talked about it once or twice on a podcast, one of our podcasts, but I feel like the trademark process was an intimidating process and you made it a so digestible, and like I felt so supported, we both felt so supported and so guided, but be I didn't realize how much of a waiting game is involved with with trademarking. Like I always thought it was something you could just go online, you hit, apply for a trademark, pay a bunch of money and Bada bing, bada, boom, you got a trademark. But the I feel like we waited, what, eight months a year.


Colynn O'Brien  

So I think it was a little, it's usually a little over a year, because it takes a while from the time you do the application for someone like them to assign an examiner at the USPTO. So and then as to go through all the other processes before actually being registered. So it does take some time for sure.


Colynn O'Brien  

Relaxing, and I was like our engagement period where we were like, oh my god, do we still want to get married? Like,


Colynn O'Brien  

ya know, for sure. It's definitely like a huge waiting game. So that's why we like being there to being like, hey, we haven't heard anything yet. But this is normal. We'll let you know as soon as we do. And then you know, obviously, if things do come up, we're there as well. So but usually, when you do hire us or another attorney, you'll know if there will be any issues with your application that needs to be dealt with during the process. So


Lexie Smith  

this is like a verbal reminder for me. And both of you and everyone to hold me accountable. I need to ash add the the gosh darn TM to our name and logo, we haven't yet certified out loud


Colynn O'Brien  

can add the R now too, but sometimes people just use the TM, but you can add the R because that means that you're actually registered. So


Lexie Smith  

is that more legit? First question, is that more legit? She's legit. I'm more legit. Were more legit. Yep,


Colynn O'Brien  

it just says basically, that you have registered your trademark so they can go look it up and they can't steal it from you. So.


Colynn O'Brien  

So what if someone tried to steal it? What would we do? You would


Colynn O'Brien  

usually it depends on the situation. But usually what happens the first step is sending a cease and desist letter, just saying, Hey, you do need to protect it while you are. Like after you have the trademark registered, it has to be protected. So you need to make sure that you're monitoring if there are other people using the mark, and you need to send a cease and desist letter. So a lot of times people will be like, I can't believe that big company sent this little company a cease and desist letter, but it's because they have to keep their trademark rights. So really important to know for after you have a trademark registered that


Lexie Smith  

like if we don't pursue people, we could lose our trademark. Yes.


Colynn O'Brien  

And it again, it depends. I know it's such a lawyer answer. That's why it's important to consult with a lawyer on these things. Because you just have to make sure that everything's in place. And it everything just really does depend on the situation. So


Colynn O'Brien  

Colin, when you go out in the world, can you like enjoy yourself? Or do you see everything through a lawyer light lens?


Colynn O'Brien  

You know, sometimes sometimes I can enjoy myself. Sometimes it's really hard because you are like trained, I'm getting better at starting my own thing has helped me with a lot of the mindset things, but you're trained to see the worst case scenario for people. And at my former job, I did like, well insurance claims and some of them were for businesses. And we had to basically what we did for the insurance company and the client is wrote that report saying like, this is the worst thing that could happen. And we had to tell them the worst thing that could happen because they had to be advised of like their rights. And that's kind of what I do now too. But it was like everyday writing reports just saying, This is the worst case. And if you don't do X, Y and Z and you hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you don't tell people the consequences they don't necessarily understands. So yes, it is sometimes I go out and I'm like, Oh, that's such a liability.


Lexie Smith  

And you will never know that because you're such a positive happy person. You're like sunshine, like thank you in a human form. So yeah,


Colynn O'Brien  

10% agree. I just want to share I was in Mexico last week with my son and my husband and his his brother and sister, sister in law. This is his wife words. And we went on a snow day tour. So Like you jump in these little caves in the middle of nowhere, and Jackson, my son, who's two years old was allowed to go in. And I was like, this would be such a no, no. In the US, I didn't sign anything they just handed us there was no like, you know, no liability in case your kid can't swim or just like double checking that people can swim before they do it. And then similarly, we went on a boat that was, like, go find the man on the beach, and the boat that says the thing got on a boat with a kid. And you know, on the boat, and I'm like, this is fascinating. Like, we didn't do any research on this company. It's kind of beautiful in those moments to where you're just like, I survived. And here I am to tell the tale. But also in the middle of the ocean, you're like, huh, like was this was smart? And that's


Colynn O'Brien  

it. Yeah, I think about that. Now, especially like, when I used to travel by myself, I'd be like, it's fine. But traveling with my son. I'm like, is it safe to like rent a boat? And like go in another country? I don't know, apparently. Apparently it is.


Lexie Smith  

I know. I'll be Oh,


Colynn O'Brien  

no, I was gonna just say everything's optional. And every other country America is like overly litigious. I think we're extremists.


Lexie Smith  

Okay, so what we're going to do now, I don't know, we kind of already transitioned, here's my, here's my transition. Talking of liabilities, let's go over to the coaching world, when you're starting out? How can you know, or do you have advice on what to do first, from a legal perspective? Like, is it registering yourself as a company? And if so, it's a certain type of company, what what type of company like where does someone start? Okay, I want to be a coach, and I want to make this legit. What do I do first, from a legal standpoint?


Colynn O'Brien  

Yes. And again, this all depends, but I do. Usually I recommend filing your company, whatever that is, a lot of times, it's an LLC, but there are, you know, arguments for corporations, and still just having your sole proprietorship, which is when you're just basically operating under your name. And if you're doing that, you won't have any of the liability protections, but it's easy to get started. But as a lawyer, I always recommend starting with the actual protection. So usually, I'd say an LLC, but there could be, you know, if you do want to sell shares later, or you want just kind of like more of like a liquid transition to where you can either have a partner later, just depending on your plans, you may want a corporation instead. But the most important thing I would say normally is your client contract. So I would make sure that you have a really solid client client contract that you understand and that you can also explain to your clients. And this, you know, most of the important things are like having the payment terms in there correctly, making sure that they're clear, specific, easy to understand your intellectual property. So protecting your actual, like coaching works. So any materials that you distribute to your clients, you want them to know that it's only for their use, depending on your company. So you may have them like you may give it to them to give to other people. But for certain materials, you know, usually you have them just for your client to use for their business. So you want to make sure that your intellectual property terms are very clear on how they can use what and who owns what, just so they're not going out and trying to, you know, just give it to other people. So that's one of the things attorneys fees, provisions, something that you could definitely put into, that protects you if you are sued. So even if someone sues you for something stupid, the general rule is that you have to pay for your attorneys fees and cost. But if you have these provisions in usually what I recommend having them say is that the winning party gets to recover the loser the attorneys fees from the losing party. And that protects you. Because if you go to trial, and even if you end up winning, you're still going to have to pay probably at least 50 grand and attorneys fees and cost. So that's one thing that you could put in your contract. And another thing that protects you from that is business insurance. So I would say that's if you can't if you don't have the resources yet to do your like LLC or your contract, which I still recommend doing that. Because if you're investing anything in your company, your time is just as important as money. So if you're investing time, money, anything you also should be investing in your legal to protect all of that. So, and one of the biggest things I'm kind of getting off on a tangent here. But the one thing mindset shift for me that really changed everything for me was that like my business and me are my biggest investment and they are an investment. So once I realized that it's like any money that I spend in my business, obviously I'm spending smartly but it's just like, if it's going to get me to the next level, it's worth it or it's going to protect my business. So that's where it's like okay, some of these things you might not need right away, but I would definitely have your client contract. Definitely the attorneys fees provisions and make sure that you understand it and then the business insurance as well.


Colynn O'Brien  

Mine is up for renewal right now. So that's on my to do list this afternoon. Thank you. I honestly didn't know about business insurance. And chill. I was like, two years into my business. And I was at a mistake, too. I was at a retreat and the girls like, do you have you know, you have an event insurance, right? And I was like, No,


Lexie Smith  

we don't.


Colynn O'Brien  

I don't, please don't fall on today's retreat. Thank you so much.


Lexie Smith  

God, I remember quick squirrel. I was attending a second degree society event circa some time ago. And I think I'd had to sign a waiver prior to it, it was gonna be a workout class. And to get to my garage, there's these two big steps. We have like a California room detached garage, and I'm holding the laptop like going to go into my garage because there's more space for working out. And I fall and sprained my ankle. And Emily's like, please don't sue me. I'm like, what technically it was during the event.


Colynn O'Brien  

In technically you signed a waiver. So that works. For the workout instructor who was smart and realize that people are clumsy.


Lexie Smith  

Just never even made it to the workout. It just didn't seem to work out. He didn't.


Colynn O'Brien  

Instead, so yeah, I forgot about that. How's your ankle now?


Lexie Smith  

Fine. Yeah. Anyways, okay, so great, great things to think about what a lawyer be the one who helps you with business insurance, or is that someone else


Colynn O'Brien  

a lawyer can help you usually what you would do is go to like, an insurance broker. And then also just make sure that you can make sure with the lawyer that you're caught, you have the right coverages, and that everything in your policy is like what you want to be covered. Not everything is covered, there are like a lot of exclusions, like for instance, with COVID, like, a lot of people tried to file claims with that. And viruses were excluded in most business policies. And usually, it's not something that you can add on. But there are some things that you may be able to add on that you think about that would apply to your business. So you could just pay a little extra for that protection. Generally, with coaches, there usually isn't, you know, I wouldn't think of anything that would be separate, but just depending on the type of coach that could potentially


Colynn O'Brien  

what are the things that they should have covered within the business insurance in general?


Colynn O'Brien  

Yeah, the general liability is definitely something that you need. If you have employees, you need workers comp to potentially professional liability, depending on what type of coach you are errors and omissions insurance, which sometimes is included within a general liability. But that's those are definitely some of them. Also, there's cyber insurance to which you can get it's only covers usually only covers up to a certain amount. But it's still good with all these privacy leaks. Speaking of also, you should definitely if you have a website, or you're collecting any information from your clients online, you definitely need a privacy policy. So that's one of the things that I would say it should be first on your list too. There's a lot of things, there's a lot of information, but it's also like not as overwhelming and intimidating as it seems, you can get all kinds of done really quickly too. So depending on what lawyer you go with, most lawyers have like I have legal planning services that you could just come to me and get most of these things done pretty quickly.


Colynn O'Brien  

And then in addition to privacy policy, typically, there's usually like a terms of condition Terms and Conditions.


Colynn O'Brien  

Yeah, and those those could be tailored in different ways. So they can be kind of like the rules set out on your website. But if you were like selling things like through your website, and people, that would kind of be your contract as well. So it just depends on the type of coach so and how you're collecting. So if you're having them like check a box and like pay on your website, then you should have that within your terms of use, like the actual client contract.


Lexie Smith  

So something that I have seen and like transparently, Emily and I have lovingly debated within ourselves. The trend is that more and more coaches aren't passing along a physical like DocuSign contract. And rather, when you're filling out maybe an application online or you're going through a form, there ends up being a part where you pause, there's a terms and conditions and you click the box, and then that's all they're doing. I'm curious, that verse me having my contract and sending it it might equally protected or like what are the pros and cons


Colynn O'Brien  

generally as long as if you have like the checkbox, and then you have a link to the terms and conditions that they can click. That helps and it is pretty much similar protection but usually you see what the bigger companies and I'm not 100% sure how like Stripe or any of those payment processors do it but Like, if you go to a bigger company's website, they make you actually like, go click through and like, at least scroll through the terms and conditions, that's probably the best way to do it if you're able to do it within your website if you're not going to do the DocuSign. But as long as you have something that says that they read the terms and conditions, it does help, and it is pretty much equal protection. But again, you know, there's ways to make sure that they, the more you can, like, ensure that they've read it, the better. But Emily's


Lexie Smith  

a little smug looking right now, am I reading that right?


Colynn O'Brien  

I'm sorry, we just make it so much harder sometimes than it has to be. So I'm a huge fan of simplicity and like simplifying and streamlining. And I think a lot of times, like chasing people for contracts can take, can I have three contracts or two contracts that right now? Like they paid their money? They're showing up for the thing, and they still haven't signed the contract? Yeah,


Colynn O'Brien  

like, wait, you need to do this? Yeah. So in that case, it just, I would just try to do like, where you screw up, have them scroll through and then click that they've read it, because then it's at least like they scrolled through it and saw it rather than just clicking it. But that's usually sufficient to say that they signed it as long as you link to it. Do you


Colynn O'Brien  

think there's like a price point involved that you recommend a contract versus, like the scrolling and just accepting Terms and Conditions?


Colynn O'Brien  

I'm not necessarily because I don't I don't think that I think regardless, it's just a better protection. But if you can't do it, it's not the again, this is all general advice as well. But it's not always the biggest deal. If you don't have you're not able to get that accessibility where you could scroll through. But for bigger price points, it's probably better just because you're more likely to come into more issues. But also people do like, depending on who it is, you might have someone who just wants to nitpick over, you know, something smaller. So


Colynn O'Brien  

yeah, I'm better at like an on demand course, doesn't need a contract for something that they can just pay for. Right then in there like that, I


Colynn O'Brien  

would definitely have a contract for that. Because you want to set up your intellectual property provisions in there to just saying like, Hey, this is only for your use, you can't redistribute it, and have those things in there. And then also that they you know, especially you also for things like that. Most people don't accept refunds, because it's something that they could just watch in an hour. So usually you want to have a refund policy that you're special specifying like, hey, we don't give refunds on this because you get instant access to it. So that's something I would definitely have a contract for those products as well. And then crush up. No, no,


Lexie Smith  

no, go go go into new questions. So if you had a follow up question related go for it.


Colynn O'Brien  

So in that though, like when you say a contract, having it with the terms and conditions accepting box is okay, though. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, please approach the bench. Lexi.


Lexie Smith  

Gobble, gobble your turn talking sick? Um, so my question is, okay, great. You have this client, not client? Sure you have a client who has a contract still works. They sign the contract things all fine and dandy. And honestly, this has happened to me. And I'm sure it's happened to many people. It's unfortunate. But the client breaks the contract. And for me, it's happened financially, where they just stopped paying. And I come to this, this point, I'm like, What do I do? And what's worth it? Do I pursue legal counsel potentially spend even more money than I'm owed fighting something? Or do I just drop it? I'm curious what you would advise people like at what point do you think a contract is worth pursuing? When we just look at it from the financial standpoint? A lot


Colynn O'Brien  

of times, that just depends too on the situation. So it depends on how much money it is. A lot of times, you know, that's where a lawyer comes into, because you could talk to them, see what happened, what you did with respect to the contract? Yeah, so it kind of depends on like, the time that you put in all the different like factors that you basically what happened in the situation, that you talk to a lawyer about it. But one thing that I definitely recommend in this too, with the attorneys fees provisions, as I always put underneath it within the attorneys fees provisions, I put another provision that just basically goes hand in hand with it, but it just says that if you have to sue them for collections, that they end, you win, and they have to pay your attorneys fees. So it's one of those things where yeah, you're gonna have to put out money on the front end, but if you went in and actually collect from them, then they have to pay you for that. So another thing that you'd want to and this is probably getting a little bit too much for the podcast, but is you'd want to talk to an attorney about like, the potential chances of you winning what how much it would potentially cost and all those different things. So that's where do is having like talking to an attorney about it and just kind of deciding on, you know, depending on what you've done and the amount of money that's at stake.


Colynn O'Brien  

And I think with that situation Lex, too, it's, I'd be curious, Colin, your point of view if the person doesn't have any money, and ran out of funds, but it makes sense to go after someone who's frontalis.


Colynn O'Brien  

Exactly. So that's where in that situation, it could depend. Because if they don't have funds, then you're just going to go after them, and you're gonna pay an attorney, and then you're not going to be able to collect. So it's just again, it's all dependent on the situation. But having those attorneys fees, provisions helps. But if they're not collectible, it's you know, but you should definitely have them in your contract. It's definitely something I have in every one of my contracts that I do for my clients. That's


Colynn O'Brien  

amazing. Do you have a favorite legal signing tool that you use?


Colynn O'Brien  

I use a low sign, but it's just kind of within my case management software. So and I do like it I like a lot.


Colynn O'Brien  

That's the one with Dropbox, right? Yeah. Yeah. I have like a free trial that I activate every month. Basically, I'm like, I'm not getting so many contracts out that I need to pay. Our for much it is.


Colynn O'Brien  

Yeah.


Lexie Smith  

Is there anything else? From a coaching perspective? I mean, there's 5000 things we could really get into right when we talk about legalities. But you know, considering let's say, a coach is within either they're about to start a business, or they're within their early years, first one to three, even to five years, things that you think aren't talked about enough, or things that should be on people's radar when it comes to the law, and coaches. Yeah,


Colynn O'Brien  

so some of the things I already covered the attorneys use provisions, the business insurance, but also trademarks. And it's something that you can wait on, but usually I don't recommend it, especially if you are, you know, working to build the brand. Even if you just started it's one of those things where if you're working to build a brand and you have like this great three years and you have this great brand and you find out someone else was using it, then you have to go back and rebrand everything. And that's just you know, you have to go to redo your logo, redo your name, redo your website, get a new domain name. So when you think about all of the money and time that you put into actually doing all that stuff like it probably took you the whole three years to do that. So by not having a trademark your you can't you don't own your brand. So then you have to like redo everything and then also tell everyone Hey, so and I know Lex you just went through a rebrand but for different reasons. But you know how much work goes into it? I'm sure so


Colynn O'Brien  

yeah, so much fun. So much, I highly recommend it to everyone every right.


Colynn O'Brien  

But another thing with trademarks, too, is if you're not sure on your name, you don't you know, you don't necessarily have to go ahead and register your trademark, you can wait on that, but I would still make sure that no one else is using it so that you don't get sued for infringement. And the other thing is copyrights that I think that isn't talked about a lot for coaches is actually protecting your works, especially if you have you know, a bunch of materials like you both have sorry, my hands just totally in in the camera. Okay, yes. So that's one thing where like your trademarks, protect your brand name, things like that, like your company name, any of your branding elements where your copyrights protect your actual work. So if you have like, your online courses, you have videos, different materials, those are all different things that you want to copyright and protect so that if someone is using it, that you can sue them and recover damages, especially once what you want to do it because if you someone does infringe, you can't necessarily get damages from them after the fact if you haven't registered your copyright. That's why it's something it's not as much as people think it's really not that big of an investment to just go ahead and do it. It's actually usually less than trademarking and a lot of things you could do as a group just depending on what it is. So that's one thing where I feel like isn't covered enough with coaches?


Colynn O'Brien  

Wow, okay, well, likes we're gonna power after this episode. I know a lot of people when they start their coaching business, they feel overwhelmed with the name to choosing and oftentimes launch a coaching business using their name. So surely, Jones coaching.com What advice do you have for people using their own name versus using meetup made up name?


Colynn O'Brien  

Yeah, if you're using your name and you're building a brand and you you're assuming that you want to keep your name or even if you've used it for a while, and it's really becoming synonymous with your brand, even if you have a separate name. I also recommend just depending on the situation again, but I also usually recommend you should trademark


Lexie Smith  

your name, Lexie Smith, like I could trademark me potentially


Colynn O'Brien  

if no one else is using it for like business coaching and PR stuff.


Lexie Smith  

There's a famous bread artists Yes, I said bread as a In the bread you eaten in Lexie Smith, Google, it's fascinating. I will never be here on SEO. It's very sad is


Colynn O'Brien  

a beautiful, beautiful, talented artists. I think there was a woman, I'm probably going to mix up the story, but there was like a wedding dress designer who had a dress company that was her own name. And then she sold it and she wasn't able to use her name again. Was that what happened? So center, right. And I haven't actually


Colynn O'Brien  

heard of that one. But that happens a lot. And then yeah, if you sell your brand, that's another thing too, where people have in the past like, I don't know if you guys saw the like, I don't know if it's documented or something Halston on Netflix. Like, I think he sold his name to us like a big designer back in like the 80s 90s. And he sold his name to JC Penney's, without really thinking about it. And then now like after he wasn't able to, like use his name, he could still design things, but he couldn't do that. I think the same thing happened with Bobby Brown too. She sold her name and now she works like like for cosmetics. So like, I think she has a separate company. Now it seems something else. Really interesting. So that's another thing too, when you are assigning contracts, just make sure that there's no you're not giving away your like intellectual property rights without meaning to


Colynn O'Brien  

this mine about Charles Shaw wine to backtrack. Like it used to be really, really nice wine and then it was sold to franzia. And they turned like they use the reputation of the nice wine to create this more economical wine. Brands money. I


Colynn O'Brien  

didn't know. I feel like I've heard that, but I didn't know that. Yeah,


Colynn O'Brien  

I think he was, wasn't doing well. According to Google. Yeah, he during bankruptcy proceedings in 1995. Its trademark was acquired for $27,000 by Bronco wine company owned by owned by Fred franzia, formerly of transia. Brothers whines Yeah. So


Colynn O'Brien  

that's something to if you do so you can also use your trademark as an asset to like, if you do sell your company, that's something that builds value with your company. And same thing with your copyrights too. So it's something that you can really leverage as an asset. And as your company grows, and you build your brand, it does actually gain value. So it is a very valuable thing. Like I think Nike, I don't know if I don't remember what maybe it was, but they talked about Nike. And they like bought he bought the logo for like, $27, like, the 90s. And it's like then he trademarked it smartly. And now it's worth you know, it's Yeah, so much money. I can't even quantify how much it's probably worth.


Lexie Smith  

This whole conversation is invaluable, but potentially very overwhelming to hear depending on where you're at in your business. So, for today's homework, do we have something simple? A first step one thing like one little thing someone can do today? That's listening to feel like they made a step forward in the right legal direction? What homework would you give them?


Colynn O'Brien  

I would say go and get business insurance.


Lexie Smith  

Okay, okay. No, I Oh, no, we're gonna have to sidebar on that for a second after this because I don't want to make this a 42nd thing but 40 minute thing, but I have a question for you on that. And if people have questions for you on that and other legal questions, where did they go Colin?


Colynn O'Brien  

You can find me on Instagram it's lawyer Colin My name is spelled C O L y n n and then I have a Luma law.com So you can book a call there as well. But he and me usually


Lexie Smith  

and you also have she's


Colynn O'Brien  

legit Yes. So you can contact me at lawyer call in on Instagram for that and then I am I haven't actually watched the website yet so what that will be out very soon it by the time you guys hear this? It might actually it probably will be out so that will be she's legit.com Next week. Yeah. Okay, that actually will be perfect because it's ready to go. It just hasn't been launched.


Colynn O'Brien  

Perfect. I love the timing. Well, Colin, thank you so much for joining us as our guest today on the coach 30 Lexi has been watching too much Miss Rachel. She's all right. Thanks, guys. Bye