Say What You Mean: Navigating Hard Conversations in Life and Business

In this episode, I’m opening up about something we all wrestle with—communication. Whether it’s in marriage, business, or a one-star review that still stings, I’m sharing what I’ve learned (and unlearned) about how to say what you mean without being misunderstood.

You’ll hear the story behind my toughest client experience, why I overexplain everything (and how that sometimes backfires), and how I’ve learned to communicate better in real time—with clients, with my husband, and with myself.

We’ll talk about:

• Why comfort in relationships can lead to careless words
• How body language, silence, and people-pleasing can be misread
• What I learned from a painful review—and how I rebuilt my confidence
• The shift from solo photographer to team leader, and how I communicate that change
• How ChatGPT unexpectedly helped me grow as a communicator (yes, really)
• And why attracting the right clients matters just as much as doing great work

If you’ve ever felt like you were trying your best and still got it wrong—this one’s for you. Let’s talk about the power (and pressure) of communication when everything’s on the line.

Whether you’re a parent or not, motivated or still figuring it out, dreaming big, building something new, or rebooting what’s next — you’re welcome here. Let’s navigate real life and business together, one unfiltered conversation at a time.

Thanks for listening to Off Brand, On Point. If this episode hit home, made you laugh, or gave you something to think about, share it with a friend or leave a quick review.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey there, I'm Shanna. Welcome back to Off Brand On Point, the podcast for the people hitting backspace on their whole life mid-sentence. I'm a wife, a mom, a business owner, and a lifelong overthinker finally learning how to say the things I usually just edit in my head. Last week's episode, I talked about grace. How to give it, receive it, and why it matters in marriage, motherhood, business, and even in the way we talk to ourselves. That episode was a heart check for a lot of us. And if you haven't listened yet, I really, really hope you do. It's one of those conversations that reminds us that showing up with grace doesn't mean being passive. It means being purposeful. And today, I want to build on it. I am diving into something just as real and just as necessary, communication. Because if grace is the foundation, communication is the structure we build everything else on. Since I was young, I have been told that I like to argue. I heard it from my parents and now my husband, but it wasn't because I wanted to fight. It was because I couldn't stand the idea of someone being upset with me. I always told them how that's not what it is. And I couldn't even figure out what it was until recently. And I just always need to fix the argument right away, smooth it over. And I want to explain myself in just the right way so they'd understand what I really meant. I didn't want to be right. I just wanted to be understood. This is probably why I become an overshare as an adult. I'm always trying to bridge that gap between what I feel and what the other person heard. So I remember being in the backseat with my little sister. We were both super young. And she was the quiet one growing up. Normally I'd be the one picking on her. I'll admit it. But one day she started poking at me and making faces or something. And I yelled... And of course, like normal, I got in trouble. But my dad happened to catch her in the rearview mirror sticking out her tongue. I felt so validated. Finally, he saw it wasn't just always me. So parents out there, sometimes the quiet ones stir the pot too. But that little memory is something we all laugh about now. And I just think that's the thing. We speak out of habit, not intention. But habits don't build connection. Intention does. It's crazy to think that my 10-year wedding anniversary is this year and I'm If you're married or in a long-term relationship, you know communication is everything. One thing that I've noticed, the way we speak to each other, I think sometimes can get lazy. I believe we get comfortable. We know each other's triggers, buttons, and quirks, but instead of using that for good, sometimes we just let the effort slide and we're tired. We had a hard day at work or with the kids and everything that we say, we just assume our partner knows exactly what we mean. And that's when things can definitely go sideways. Sometimes when we feel unheard, we can get louder. And when our spouse doesn't react the way we wanted, we can get defensive. And before we know it, we're having an argument about tone instead of talking about what actually matters. I can't tell you how many arguments. I had no idea what even started it because now we got to a place where maybe we were trying to one-up each other or, you know, things just spiraled and we weren't even talking anymore about the the main thing that started the whole thing and a lot of the times nine out of ten times it was really truly a misunderstanding so like have you ever said something and your spouse snaps back at you in any kind of way or you can tell that they're frustrated or you're like wait that's what you heard It's wild how quickly things can get twisted. Just one sentence can spiral a whole weekend if we're not careful. That's why communication isn't just important, it's a skill. And we're all still learning it. I think because we get so comfortable with our partners, the hard work in our relationship or marriage, especially when communicating, it can get lazy. And that leads us to being careless with our words, often without realizing it. Men and women are wired differently. I think we all can agree on that. And which to me, it's a blessing, truly. But let's be honest, it makes communication hard. Surely every marriage has moments. If it's not once a week, hopefully it's not. But then at least it's once in a while where you stop and think, oh, Why does my spouse think that way? Why are they acting that certain way? Or why would they even say something like that? Sometimes it's serious, just curiosity, but other times it's frustration. But either way, how we express that curiosity, it matters. Depending on how we say it, it can come off like judgment and it can sting and then Suddenly, it's not a conversation, it's a conflict. I now truly believe even the best marriages can benefit from a little therapy or counseling or even reaching out and researching some of those resources that go hand in hand. Even the happiest couples hit roadblocks and most of the time, it really comes down to communication. And I think we can all say that when we're in a disagreement or an argument with our spouse or a significant other, we're not trying to hurt one another, but we do it without realizing it. All the more reason to be intentional about the words that we choose. So since my 10-year wedding anniversary is coming up, that means my 10 years in business as a wedding photographer is coming up soon as well. I'm extremely careful about how I communicate. It's definitely tied to my people-pleasing habits. Once a bride books with me, I treat her like friends and family. I never want anyone to feel like they're waiting on me or wondering if I forgot something about one of the most important days of their lives. And I also have a small questionnaire beforehand to get to know the couple. It's not just about the details. It's also about the connection. I want to be more than just a wedding professional. So did you know I make the engagement session borderline mandatory? Half joke. But really, I offer it complimentary so we can connect before the big day. It gives the couple a chance to see how I work, my style, my posing, and more importantly, just see themselves in my work. Thankfully, this has never happened for me, but I would never want a couple of mine to have a photo shoot with me for the very first time And then I deliver their gallery and they just don't really like what I delivered. So having an engagement session also builds confidence for them to trust my services and know what to expect from, you know, on their wedding day. It also builds our confidence as well because after I deliver their photos, they have a chance to tell me what they think and I love getting feedback compliments as far as how they enjoyed their time with me. They love their gallery. So they really are excited for Evelyn and Co to be capturing their wedding day. There's been plenty of times where I over-explained things in different situations, but I then fear I'm scaring people off. But I'd rather be too clear than leave room for confusion. I'm ready to finally open up and talk about something that I have been prepping for this specific podcast. There's been one time where I think my people pleasing came off the wrong way. I got a one star review twice from the bride and the groom, and it was painful. They said nothing negative about the delivery and the photos. but just only how I acted or how they perceived me. That hurt more because I wasn't trying to be anything but helpful. I responded with kindness and used it as a learning moment. One of the things that I did learn from that situation was having two weddings in one day was not ideal for our team. And unfortunately, that couple was one of them. So that was a month where I had booked multiple double wedding days. And while our team was technically available, I now know that it affected my ability to give my best. No matter how amazing all of my brides are, the day is just mentally exhausting. So that day, I don't think I messed up in the traditional sense. The photos were beautiful. I actually stayed longer than I was supposed to per our agreement. I tried my best to be present, but somewhere along the way, I think my intentions got misread. I remember asking a couple times throughout the day, is everything okay? But I was just trying to be helpful and reassuring, doing what I thought was being a supportive wedding professional. But looking back, I think it may have came across as insecure or worse, like I was putting doubt in their minds when they weren't even thinking about it. It's really a strange and uncomfortable thing to look back on when you're someone who cares deeply about your client experience. There was also a moment where I tried to address something I should have just left alone and I had good intentions, but I should have just smiled, backed off, and let the day roll. Instead, I backed up, stayed quiet for a bit, and I think even that silence after I said too much was misunderstood. It's wild how body language and energy can say more than your words. I'm usually very intuitive about people. I'm great at sensing when a client aligns with me and my style, but in this case, I missed something and that's so frustrating. I know you can't please everyone, but I also believe there's an art to attracting the right people. So you both feel comfortable, confident, and honestly happy. Definitely a hard lesson. And not because it hurt my business. It actually gave my business an opportunity to respond. So people, my future clients and people that are, you know, searching for a wedding photographer could see how I responded to a situation, which honestly speaks louder than the situation itself. And you can kind of see how I function and how I work in an event that, you know, is stressful and hard. And it's fine. And it's sitting right next to a whole bunch of four to five star reviews. And I am so grateful for my clients and my past couples. But anyway, so it was a hard lesson because it bruised my heart a little. I care so deeply. And when that care doesn't translate the way that you mean it to... It makes you question everything. But at the same time, it taught me so much about how to communicate better and how to trust myself and my energy while also respecting the space of others. And that's the part that continues to shape how I communicate in my business today. So that specific day was at the end of wedding season. And it wasn't long after that that The whole experience led to something a little bigger, burnout, which is what I plan to talk about next week because burnout doesn't just show up in business. It seeps into your home, your marriage, your parenting, your sleep, your confidence. It can disguise itself as just being tired, but it can run deeper into And for me, it started in seasons where I wasn't communicating what I really needed. So if you haven't figured it out already, my business name is Evelyn & Co. And for a long time, people assume I'd be the only one showing up to shoot a wedding. That's not always the case. I purposely called it & Co. as in & Company. And I've built a team. I had to do this when I started... having babies and I couldn't be at weddings that year. And I trust these photographers just like I trust them to be shooting my own wedding. In fact, I have to tell couples inquiring that I wouldn't want anyone less than what I can deliver being a part of Evelyn & Co. They take that responsibility of shooting under my name and under my business. And that also kind of tells them that i think very highly of them there are some things that i truly believe that they know and do better than i can do and i am so grateful that they can be right alongside of me and deliver the evelyn and co experience in the same way that i can or even better but i am sure to tell all the couples inquiring this to be clear that So there's no surprises. And I want every couple to have what I would want for myself. But I've also learned to be careful how I word things. I probably already said this in this episode, but I try really hard not to say, to be completely honest. And even though that sounds harmless, some people can actually imply that I wasn't being honest in the first place. And so there's certain things as a business owner where words truly matter. And that's one of the lessons of this episode. So if you know me personally, you know, I edit my text constantly. When iPhones added the edit text feature, that was for people like me. My hand is literally raised in the air. I've always hit send constantly. too fast. I still do. And now I find myself grammar checking everything I write. I have even done this when it was just a text message to my mom. I know it's a big controversial issue. Some people hate ChatGPT, but for someone like me who's always thinking deeply and trying to make sure my emotions and intentions come across, it's been a great tool. I still write in my voice. I just use it to help me pause, refine, and communicate with clarity. It's kind of like reading. I never used to read much, but in the last couple years, I've become more drawn to books and audiobooks. Reading helps me with comprehension, storytelling, emotion, logic, and so much more. And chat GPT in a weird way has helped me understand narrative and structure better, which has made me more confident on this podcast. Recently, my husband said, please don't use chat GPT to argue with me as we were texting back and forth. I laughed out loud because I hadn't even used it. But the fact that he thought I had kind of was like a compliment. It's helping me grow as a communicator and I'll definitely do a future episode about that. I'm still figuring this out just like you. Still learning to pause before reacting. Still working to say what I mean and mean what I say. Still trying to give the people I love, the people I work with, my business partnerships, my clients, the benefit of the doubt. Because Better communication isn't about perfection. It's about intention. It's about showing up with clarity, with kindness, and with curiosity. And next week, we're gonna talk about something that I believe everyone has felt, but doesn't always recognize it right away. Burnout. Not just the kind that makes you tired. I'm talking about the kind that creeps in slowly, shows up in our tone, our patience, our work, our marriage, our parenting, even our posture. I'll be sharing what burnout really looked like for me, not just in my business, but in my home, in my health, and how I saw myself. We'll talk about the signs I ignored, the boundaries I didn't set, and how learning to pay attention to the tension in my body and my brain changed everything. If you've ever said, I'm just tired or it's busy season, this next one's for you. Take a breath, give yourself some credit for showing up, and I'll meet you back here for a real talk on the kind of burnout no planner hack can fix. Thank you so much for listening. I'll see you next week on Off Brand On Point.