Pete (00:01.505)
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Dad's Unfiltered. As you know, I'm Pete, and with me as always is my hetero life mate who just celebrated his 40th birthday? 41st? 40th? What one?
Chris O'Neil (00:17.08)
Really?
Pete (00:18.669)
43rd? 44? I don't fucking know, I'm throwing numbers out. Look, I gotta be honest with you, hetero life mate, I am a typical guy and I am not good with that shit, so.
Chris O'Neil (00:20.47)
44, buddy. Ha ha ha.
Chris O'Neil (00:29.838)
Hmm. Stereotyping yourself already? Yes. Well, that's all right. You've only known me since we were 14. That's all right. Well, since I was 14. May 30.
Pete (00:32.81)
If it wasn't for Facebook, I would have never wished you a happy birthday. No offense. Ha ha.
Pete (00:42.977)
Yeah, it's okay. When's my birthday? When's my birthday? Pop quiz, motherfucker. Son of a bitch. Well, that failed. Damn it. You know what I feel like right now? I feel like fucking Happy Gilmore when he bet that girl, like, to make a slap- uh, to make a goal. So he could get a kiss. And it totally backfired. Yeah. That was totally it. Right there.
Chris O'Neil (00:58.966)
Oh yeah, I'd make a goal. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
See ya. There you go. I guess I'm not the stereotypical guy. Well, and, uh, to answer your question, sir, yes, that is me, your hetero life mate. Now, I would like to say hello to the, uh, all of our dads unfiltered crew cause you guys are awesome and we very much appreciate you listening.
Pete (01:09.099)
Ah.
Pete (01:12.321)
I guess not.
Chris O'Neil (01:30.81)
And we actually got a great shout out by our buddy Courtney on social media the other day. And that felt really good because he was just talking about his take on our stuff.
Pete (01:41.205)
Yeah, and Courtney.
Chris O'Neil (01:46.154)
Yeah. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. But he just get those numbers right, man. But yes, the just his take on how he views the podcast and how much he enjoys it and the fact that he was sharing it. And that was really great. And we are very grateful for that. And it makes us feel good and certainly inspires us to keep going when we read and hear stuff like that. So.
Pete (01:46.497)
he's gonna be a guest coming up in a couple weeks i think and you might have to my math right
Chris O'Neil (02:16.566)
But today, today we are going to talk about something that hits very close to home for many of us, obviously being dads. And that is the difficulties of raising children in America. Because, god damn.
Pete (02:31.581)
Abso-fucking-lutely. Abso-fucking-lutely, Chris. It is the worst. And you know, it's always kinda been in the back of my mind, but last week, I was hit with two articles. I somehow fell victim to signing up for Apple News.
Chris O'Neil (02:39.396)
Hahaha
Chris O'Neil (02:49.352)
Mm-hmm.
Pete (02:53.889)
And so now I get all sorts of emails about factual things. And one of them was this article on the Atlantic called Why Parents Struggle So Much in the World's Richest Country. And the other one, which was like fortuitous, was like three days later, Business Insider did a piece called Why America Hates Its Children. And it's.
Chris O'Neil (02:54.627)
Oh, yeah, I haven't done that yet.
Chris O'Neil (03:11.294)
And I love the title of this one.
Pete (03:19.378)
It really struck a chord with the both of us. I shared it immediately with you. And I felt like this is definitely something we should talk about.
Chris O'Neil (03:23.516)
Yeah, absolutely.
Chris O'Neil (03:28.394)
Yeah. Well, because and the big thing here too, is that so many of us, because let's be honest, we're in one of the biggest countries of the world. It's very easy to travel state to state and never go out of the country. And I think so many people have that experience. So it's really hard to know what it's like anywhere else. So there's nothing to compare it to. And this articles like this and conversations like this are important. Yeah.
Pete (03:51.033)
Well, you know, the other part of that too.
is it's not so much that we have nothing to compare it to, it's just that the picture painted of the other countries is how terrible it is, how bad everything is. You don't know how good you have it here. So you're conditioned. It's almost like a fucking propaganda film at school. Like they're just beating you to death with fucking America, and they're not giving you the option or the opportunity.
Chris O'Neil (04:05.802)
Right. Socialism. Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (04:17.696)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (04:21.056)
Yeah.
Pete (04:23.777)
to see what's on the other side.
Chris O'Neil (04:27.478)
Well, and to that point, the stats and the data that are presented in these articles are like immediately make you wanna reflect on your experiences as a father, as a parent in general, of course, but certainly as a father. And to that point and comparing it to other countries, let's do that. Like family care and services, it's a thing.
Pete (04:53.013)
Yeah, you know.
Pete (04:57.121)
You know, reading these articles, like I said, the best one was the Atlantic, Why is it so difficult raising children in the richest country in the world? That one really hit home. They had some really good comparative things and it made me open my eyes to a lot of the things that I truthfully think we should be having. It shouldn't be like every man for himself, oh, you fucked around and found out you're on your own is how it feels.
Chris O'Neil (05:18.805)
I agree.
Chris O'Neil (05:25.002)
Yeah. Oh yeah. Very much like that.
Pete (05:26.845)
You know, like I'm being punished because I chose to, to breathe. And the thing is, is like, it's the future. Why the fuck wouldn't you want to nurture your fucking future? Like, it blows my mind. But, you know, according to the various studies. Oh, sorry. What were you going to say? Oh, I was going to say, according to the various studies.
Chris O'Neil (05:40.682)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (05:45.547)
Yeah, and it's...
Hmm. No, go ahead. I was just gonna piggyback on another comment on what you said, but go for it. I know the lag. Ha ha ha.
Pete (05:56.921)
You son of a bitch. All right. The US lags behind many development, developed nations in providing comprehensive family support. Countries like Sweden, Norway, and Denmark offer generous parental leave, affordable childcare, which is fucking huge, and universal health care for children. Fucking huge.
Chris O'Neil (06:17.186)
Huge. Yeah. Well, and again.
Pete (06:22.293)
Like just that, that child support, like the family support, that's the biggest part, like, and childcare. Like that's why a lot of us can't do anything because we're fighting to work and to fucking raise our kids.
Chris O'Neil (06:32.799)
Yeah. Well, and like you said, it's.
Chris O'Neil (06:37.354)
It's like you said, it's basically like you're on your own, you chose to do that, sucks to be you. But... That's what... That's like a major part of life, that's... Eh... Eh, we're acting like we're trying to go off here and do a hobby over here that's just on our time. But... It's what every... Civilization has done, you have and raise children to continue shi-
Pete (06:56.874)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (07:03.77)
on you know in the future like you said and we're basically just like I fuck them it's all about us you know um but like you said uh in Sweden for instance the parents are entitled to 480 days of parental leave per child per child and they can split the time between them no I did paid parental leave yeah
Pete (07:12.568)
Yeah.
Pete (07:25.833)
And you didn't even mention the fact that was paid. You forgot to mention paid. Oh, you did. Well, I make sense. You paid. Just one more time.
Chris O'Neil (07:32.766)
I did, yeah. But, yeah, paid, paid. But in the US, obviously, the stark contrast of that, only a handful of states have some form of paid family leave, and obviously it's nowhere near as extensive. And the big thing there too is...
We're a country of profits, profits and business, instead of community and family, like we're touting ourselves to be. Oh, the American family is the most important thing. Fuck you, it is. So, yeah.
Pete (08:14.761)
Yeah. If a family is so important, why is it that when it comes to childcare costs, the US is the fucking highest in the planet? Like, a recent study found that many states, the cost of childcare can surpass fucking college tuition. How are we supposed to pay for both? You know, loans out the ass. I got loans when it's a baby, I got loans when it's grown. What the fuck?
Chris O'Neil (08:36.353)
Mm-hmm.
Chris O'Neil (08:42.102)
Dude
Pete (08:42.325)
It is the biggest financial burden on families. And it's a fucking struggle to bear. I know, cause I'm, I deal with it.
Chris O'Neil (08:52.177)
Well, yeah, what have you paid in childcare as a single parent for as long as you had, too?
Pete (08:57.241)
Alright, so. So here's how it worked out for me. I was able to have a friend that really enjoyed food. So I paid for cooking and the use of my car because she didn't have a car and she would watch the kids while I worked. I didn't work a full day because of the children. But yeah, I paid her in food and the use of my car.
Chris O'Neil (09:01.096)
Yeah. Okay.
Chris O'Neil (09:07.2)
Okay.
Chris O'Neil (09:14.39)
That's right, I do remember that.
Pete (09:21.705)
Um, thankfully that worked out. I had some family help here and there, but if I wanted to go out and do anything extra, that was like, I had to beg and plead like, like a fucking panhandler, man. I had to like go on the street. We'll work for daycare, you know, it was ridiculous or nightcare. So I could go out and have a good time. So.
Chris O'Neil (09:23.666)
Still. Mm-hmm.
Chris O'Neil (09:30.829)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (09:34.08)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and even then it was few and far between, right? So, yeah, obviously, I'm further along than you are in the sense of, you know, things have changed a decent amount since your kids were the age my kids are. But this is what I found so fucked up. It would actually be cheaper.
Pete (09:45.613)
Hmm.
Pete (09:56.502)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (10:01.826)
for us to get a second apartment than it would to have ongoing childcare. So we were.
Pete (10:15.265)
What would you do in the second apartment? Wait, wait, this opens up. What would you do in the second apartment? Would you just seal off the windows and the doors, put some padding in, and just be like, here you go, kids, we'll be back in an hour?
Chris O'Neil (10:18.45)
I'm just saying, I'm just saying like...
Chris O'Neil (10:26.266)
Yeah, it's a here's your babysitter. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a built in. It's a built in babysitter. They just lock the door. But yeah.
Pete (10:31.445)
Yeah. There's a TV. There's no shop objects, no corners. We're good. We're good.
Chris O'Neil (10:36.83)
No, everything's soft. You can bounce all over it. There's snacks in the corner. If you gotta go to the bathroom, use the other corner. Yeah. No, but just the fact that it was that much. It was the preschool that we sent my first daughter to. And I've talked to other parents who had anywhere from $1,000 a month to $2,000 a month.
Pete (10:43.739)
Mm-hmm.
Chris O'Neil (11:08.166)
But ours was $1,600 is what we had to pay for childcare. And now granted, this wasn't just a babysitter. This was a decently really nice preschool where they were educated and cultivated. And they were there from like nine in the morning to.
Pete (11:13.101)
Cheers.
Pete (11:31.447)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (11:32.694)
to five a night. So it was a full eight hours of care, which was really great. But it's still, it's not cheap. And I am amazingly grateful that we were doing as well as we could, or as well as we were at the time to be able to afford it. It stretched us really thin, but we still were able to do it. And how challenging that was for us, given the position that we were in,
I know so many other people not only can't afford it, but there are people that had to give up major parts of other aspects of their life in order to afford it, you know, that type of thing. So just the fact that it's like 40% of your income for some people, that's insane.
And yeah, so regardless and on the flip side though, I have to say the people that are caring for children should get a decent wage. They're not babysitters. Like even babysitters, 20, 25 bucks an hour now. Are you kidding me? That's like, it costs $100 for my wife and I to walk out the door. Nevermind, go to a restaurant or something like that. So
Just the fact that the bare bones of it is such a huge expense for, never mind anybody, but just the average American. But obviously our friends across the pond, uh, they seem to have figured out something better. Cause in the UK, in the UK, for example, the government subsidizes a significant portion of childcare costs, making it more accessible for families. And.
Pete (12:59.383)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (13:27.958)
Did I read that right? Yeah. They subsidize a significant portion of Childhood Cross. So no, but that's the thing. Because and I heard this recently, the UK is like a stepping stone to a lot of other places in Europe where it's like compared to the US, it's amazing. But compared to Europe, it's kind of like, yeah, very much. So yeah, yeah.
Pete (13:43.884)
Yeah.
They consider it the midway point is what they do. They're still like the bastards.
Chris O'Neil (13:55.594)
But that's the thing, it's that much more, so it's still better. But you're getting something. And again, like you had mentioned before, how so many people over here crying socialism and that's too close to communism for everyone's comfort and you gotta demonize it and make it seem like, if you're not doing it all for yourself, then it's another red scare.
Pete (14:02.721)
Hmm.
Pete (14:23.114)
Yeah.
Pete (14:27.929)
I, one of the things I found fascinating was how American parents are viewed in Europe. American parents are known for being intense, neurotic, overprotective, and obsessed with academic achievement, which is the opposite of a relaxed type of parenting.
Chris O'Neil (14:36.992)
Mm.
Chris O'Neil (14:44.528)
Mm.
Chris O'Neil (14:49.124)
Mm.
Pete (14:57.309)
in Europe and they're afraid of that. They don't like that whole very hands on like at a very young age the kids are walking to school on their own. They have much more freedom than they do in America and I get you know there's a bunch of weird shit in America but there's weird shit everywhere and you know I just think that a lot of the way that we view everything and like.
Chris O'Neil (14:59.68)
Yeah.
Pete (15:24.381)
I get that neurotic, that intense wanting for the academics as well. That academic achievement. That is what drove a fucking fork in between me and my son, basically. His lax effort in school and my fucking gung-ho American way, neurosis of fucking, you gotta go to school, you gotta go to college, you gotta do this, you gotta do that.
Chris O'Neil (15:33.612)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (15:47.926)
Hehehe
Chris O'Neil (15:53.14)
Yeah.
Pete (15:53.433)
And now he lives with his mother. You know? And it's a nightmare. I honestly wish that it was less that way in America. That would be great.
Chris O'Neil (16:05.898)
Well, yeah, the big thing. And I think, well, and to be fair, too, let's be honest, like, especially after World War Two and when the baby boomers were happening and the nation was super wealthy and, you know, it was it was viewed as a good thing to just bigger is better.
let's kick ass, profit, profit. It was, well, let's be honest, it was the American way. And unfortunately, it only really worked for that maybe the next generation, well, not even, no, because the next generation was Generation X. But it was that 20 years of time.
where it was like, no, this is really working. You know, this is how we should do it forever. And then the subsequent generation started to get the brunt of all of the bullshit that happened with the previous generation. And then I was like, all right, well, let's tweak it a little bit. No, no, it's fine. Let's keep hammering it this way. It'll be great. And now we're obviously, you know, 70, 80 years from then where we're in the position we are now, where there's some major issues.
Pete (17:03.765)
Yeah.
Pete (17:28.322)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (17:29.482)
with schooling and childcare and never mind, you know, mass shootings is a whole other conversation, but obviously the fact that that's something we have to worry about as parents in school now, you know, and granted that's a whole other conversation, but.
Pete (17:42.953)
Oh, fuck yeah, man. Yeah, I mean, that is brought up in these articles. They do talk about that because that is a unique fucking experience to the American education system. Other countries don't have fucking school shootings. They don't have things like that. It's just, it's bonkers. Like one of the things like in the articles too, like just being a parent in America is like, is fucked. As soon as you...
Chris O'Neil (17:55.446)
Yeah.
Pete (18:10.429)
give birth to that kid. You're like screwed. There was one, in the Atlantic article, the author talks to this woman named Diana and she became pregnant and living in America, she changed jobs.
because that's what happens during nine months. And they offered no paid medical leave and because she wasn't at the job long enough that Family Medical Leave Act wouldn't cover it. So she basically had a C-section and then was back teaching within weeks and breastfeeding and still recovering from the operation because we wouldn't cover it as a country. And I just think that that's bullshit. She had...
Three weeks off of paid time. She said that if it wasn't for COVID, she probably would have lost her job. Because COVID saved her so she could stay at home and pump and do all that stuff. But should like the shutdown of a fucking country be what saves you? You know? Here we are bitching about all these things, but what are the things that we can do like the reasons behind these challenges?
Chris O'Neil (19:11.202)
Right.
Chris O'Neil (19:18.046)
Right. Yeah.
Pete (19:28.481)
The Atlantic pointed out that despite being the world's wealthiest nation, the U S lacks social policies that support families. And that just shouldn't be.
Chris O'Neil (19:38.806)
Right. And it's.
And it's not about a lack of resources either. Because clearly we have enough, right? It's how they're allocated. And I know the article touched on, where is it? Yeah, the societal pressure to be self-sufficient, like we were talking about. Which often leaves parents feeling isolated and unsupported. Yeah, no shit. So it's basically, fuck you, you're on your own.
Pete (19:48.333)
Fuck no.
Chris O'Neil (20:11.898)
is that you decided to do this so you have to deal with the brunt of it and i think this is something that's hugely uh... i think such a big issue in this country in general is the lack of community because of that there's not a good balance between the idea of individual
Chris O'Neil (20:38.818)
And there's nothing wrong with the desire for that. And like, hey, I'm going to work on myself and do what I can for myself and do it myself. But without the support there, because no one does anything alone. And the whole, you know, it takes a village has just become this phrase that people say now. And it doesn't even apply anymore. Like the fact that. And.
Pete (20:54.797)
All right.
Chris O'Neil (21:07.466)
This again could be all other conversation, but so many people are moving away from religion and religion is usually where the communities were right because it wasn't. It was you had a small town and a small church and that was your community and as things have evolved the idea of community hasn't and I think it's just falling by the wayside and it's parents are getting the brunt of it because. Unless you.
uh... elise you're really good relationship with the rest of your family and you live really close to them and they're willing to give you free support there's really not a lot you can do if you don't have money to do it and the fact that it's viewed the way that it is
Pete (21:50.193)
Yeah, and that's, that's the other thing, to get services in the United States. I live in a decent state as far as that sort of shit goes. Massachusetts has good healthcare, they have good social services, they're very good with the things for Zachary. The only issue that I take with all of it is that it is a full-time fucking job to go and apply.
Chris O'Neil (22:10.431)
Mm-hmm.
Pete (22:19.485)
and then you have to interview and they always keep Trab on you, you have to submit pay stubs, you have to do this, you have to do that, and then, you know, God forbid you fucking miss or you forget and they just stop it all. And then you have to go through the whole rigamarole again. That whole system, that is not fucking fair at all.
Don't even get me started on fucking socialized health care And I know that would piss off a lot of people and if there's a lot of people listening that pisses off I'm sorry, but it clearly fucking works There are other countries that are thriving because of this shit, but it's a communist idea, right? Is that what everybody thinks because that's bullshit so
Chris O'Neil (22:44.947)
Oh dude.
Chris O'Neil (22:56.712)
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Chris O'Neil (23:00.874)
Well, and that, yeah, it's the fear mongering of, you know, I mean, obviously, that's a whole other conversation. But like the pharmaceutical industry and the insurance companies, like the lobbyist issue in government is the big reason why all of that fear mongering remains. Right. And it's. It's that's trickling down and affecting. Parenting, for sure.
Pete (23:09.973)
Yeah.
Pete (23:29.833)
everything. And that leads us to our biggest question, Chris. What can we do to improve this situation? It's clear that we need a change of policies. For more family-oriented workplace practices.
Chris O'Neil (23:31.358)
Everything for sure, but obviously we're talking about parenting.
Chris O'Neil (23:40.022)
That is a big question.
Pete (23:48.157)
more shift in social mindset. There was another example of that whole workplace practices. There was a lady who was afraid of losing her job. That was in the Insider article, the Business Insider article, Why America Hates Its Children. She couldn't find daycare, so she had to take her kid to the grocery store where she works. Buck and three-year-old drowned in a grease trap at the grocery store.
Chris O'Neil (24:00.971)
Hmm.
Right.
Chris O'Neil (24:07.83)
Yeah, I heard about this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Pete (24:12.449)
because she couldn't find daycare, and she was afraid to miss work because then she'd be out on the fucking street. What kind of country is that?
Chris O'Neil (24:16.59)
because she couldn't pay for yeah and once again all well and then and then the response ends up being well you should work harder or you should have done this or you should have done that or you should you know there's always a should have you know and it and it always comes from people who are in a much better situation and i did all myself go fuck yourself no you didn't no one does it all by themselves and if you did then
Pete (24:24.745)
It like makes my fucking blood boil.
Pete (24:35.762)
Right.
Pete (24:42.337)
That's the biggest issue. Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (24:46.826)
You got a lot of nepotism going on and people open doors for you. So it's the it's the illusion. It's the idea the perception of doing it by yourself. But yeah, like you said like. We hugely need comprehensive parental leave policies. That's that's huge and father leave like not just maternal but put
Pete (24:52.425)
Mm-hmm.
Pete (25:11.66)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (25:16.734)
leave because there's this assumption that all the kids only need their mother. And again, that's another conversation, but the affordable childcare options, the big, the big one is that the cultural shift that recognizes the support of families, because again, if, if we're supposed to be going somewhere in our American exceptionalism,
Pete (25:18.689)
Well, they said...
Pete (25:22.851)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (25:46.114)
Who's gonna be taking us there next? The fucking kids, the people who are kids now, right? So if we're saying fuck you to them, when they get to be our age, how is that gonna be better for us, unless everyone's just thinking about, oh, well, I'm fine right now, and I'm gonna be dead when they're our age, so I don't give a fuck. That's basically what you're saying. And it's obviously not just about, yeah, yeah.
Pete (25:53.91)
Mm-hmm.
Pete (26:10.749)
Yeah, that's basically the way that it's gone.
Chris O'Neil (26:15.302)
And especially since the 70s with the whole, the profit shift in capitalism. Again, that's a whole other conversation. But it's not just about providing assistance, but creating a societal environment where parents don't have to feel alone in their struggles. And like even just how towns and cities are set up. Like this big idea of third places. Have you heard about this?
Pete (26:39.875)
Hmm.
Chris O'Neil (26:47.07)
So first place is home, second place is work. And this is a new concept for me. I hadn't heard of this before probably a few months ago. The idea that especially in Europe, the community aspect of parks and things like that, where in courtyards and in just public areas where you don't leave school and go home and stay home.
Pete (26:49.982)
Enlighten me.
Chris O'Neil (27:15.838)
and then go to sleep and then go back to school. You leave school and go to these third places. Like parents go to a cafe and sit in an open area and their kids are playing in the courtyard with a bunch of other kids whose parents are at another little cafe around there or something. So there's this safety in community, even if you don't know everybody.
Pete (27:37.687)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (27:43.626)
you know that you can have this experience and still the adults can have adult time the kids can have kid time and you're not you know scared for your kids life and having to watch them like a hawk so yeah
Pete (27:57.738)
Yeah.
Pete (28:02.205)
Yeah, you know, and it's funny is, um, and I hate getting political, but in a way, this is kind of a little politically charged, but they all, everyone, well, not everyone, but all these, a lot of people are like, make America great again. Now I have two questions to that. One was it ever great?
Chris O'Neil (28:12.13)
Well, I think it has to be on some level with legislation.
Pete (28:24.957)
And two, why aren't you learning from the other fucking countries? Because clearly, there are other countries that are doing things the right fucking way. And usually, to make yourself great, you kind of follow where others are succeeding, and you fucking capitalize on it, like Apple. Look at Apple, seriously. Apple has let everybody else do their shit. And then they swoop in, make it fucking better, and they're the king shit. They never had anything original.
Chris O'Neil (28:51.74)
Well, and you know it's, you know it's interesting.
Pete (28:54.109)
All of their stuff was other people's ideas and they just made it better.
Chris O'Neil (28:58.626)
What's interesting is a guy that I tout all the time, I've said his name on the podcast multiple times, but Simon Sinek, he gave a speech about Apple and he said, he did a conference once where he talked to Apple executives. He was brought in to do either coaching or a speech or something. And then he was brought into Microsoft to do the same thing.
Pete (29:20.31)
Mm-hmm.
Chris O'Neil (29:27.046)
And he said the big difference between the two was that everyone at Apple, their questions to him after his speech was, how can we be better? How can we be better than we were last year? And all of the questions from Microsoft were, how can we beat Apple? So he was acknowledging the fact that
Pete (29:43.318)
Right.
Chris O'Neil (29:51.758)
Microsoft is trying to be the best. How can we be better than our competition? And Apple is how can we do better than we did before? So they're in competition with themselves and they're not trying to be the best in the industry. They're just trying to do right by what they wanna do. So they have a very different vision of business. And I thought it was a great acknowledgement because
Pete (30:03.297)
than what we've already done.
Pete (30:13.801)
Exactly.
Chris O'Neil (30:19.766)
That's why they're doing as well as they are because of how they're doing it. So.
Pete (30:24.726)
Yep.
It's true, and when they get called out on their shit, they usually fix the shit that they got called out on. Which, unlike a lot of other companies, it's tough to say. Like even with that whole Foxconn shit, where the Chinese workers that were like, committing suicide, like left and right and all this stuff, you know, they stepped in and they tried to make it better. But there's only so much like a company in another country can do to a country, a company in another country, you know?
Chris O'Neil (30:33.004)
Yeah.
Pete (30:51.925)
But they tried, they did do their best to make it right. A lot of their stuff they're doing carbon neutral. I mean, they are really improving and they are setting a precedent, which is what, if we were such a great country, we would be doing. We would be making a fucking precedent and we would be changing these ways.
Chris O'Neil (31:06.006)
Well, and that's the thing too, is like, this idea of being a great country, when you really think about it, great for who? Not everybody in the country. Great for the GDP, sure. Ha ha ha. But really, like, like.
Pete (31:17.141)
I don't know, I'm just saying it because I know it makes people happy to hear it.
Pete (31:23.485)
It's seriously, it's like a fucking football team, man. Like, whoa, V for victory, we win, woo! That's what it's like, this whole America great shit.
Chris O'Neil (31:27.582)
What? Oh, yeah. No, but that's the point. And that's the point. And yeah, it's what can we sacrifice in order to be the best as opposed to how can we nurture and take care of our citizens in order to have the best experience? Because that's where we're skewing as a country like the horrible profit based capitalism versus the
sharing in the wealth capitalism that it started out as, you know, and this whole idea that, yeah, again, when make America great again, like I always every time I brought that up or had a conversation with anyone about that, the consensus tends to take us back again to right after World War Two, where that, you know, house picket fence in 2.5 kids, you know,
Pete (32:18.991)
Mm-hmm.
Chris O'Neil (32:24.19)
a big old Ford or a Chevy in the garage, you know, and you're out waving to Bob or Paul.
Pete (32:29.469)
Yeah, well they were talking about the time when they were really innovating. But it was a time when the country was hungry. That was what they wanted to like show that they, they had pride.
Chris O'Neil (32:33.522)
Well, yeah, but...
Chris O'Neil (32:38.074)
Absolutely. And the space race and yeah. And so it was things were happening on a global scale and a national scale that made us more powerful. Absolutely. So but if people are still suffering in your country then it's just it's uh it's a superficial shell right it's like look how
And there are literally... You know those videos that are made here about children in Africa who are starving? Do you know they actually make those in Europe for American kids? That's fucked up, man. There are sponsors, and I'm not saying it's fucked up that there are sponsors, I think that's very necessary and important. The fact that we have videos being made about the children in our country, the richest country in the world, quote unquote.
Pete (33:18.445)
Oh yeah.
Pete (33:22.29)
Oh yeah, I'm sure of it.
Chris O'Neil (33:38.55)
who have to have sponsors from other countries to eat. Are you fucking kidding me?
Pete (33:48.205)
Yeah, so one of the best ways that we can change this is the power of advocacy. As dads, we can speak up, we can share our experiences, and we can demand a fucking change. All it takes is, anytime I've gone to get services or any kind of help, I'm gonna be able to do it.
Uh, the only thing that anyone ever says is this squeaky wheel gets to fucking grease. The more you bitch, the more you piss, the more you moan, the more you're going to see change. It's unfortunate that it has to get to the point where you are like riding them like Seabiscuit. But, you know, if that's what it has to do, you know?
Chris O'Neil (34:14.952)
Mm.
Chris O'Neil (34:31.414)
Well, and not for nothing, but like there's a difference between whining and moaning and complaining and simply, as you said, advocating, being a voice, continuing to say it. And, uh, I'll use a real simple example. Um, the, um, management company that manages the property that, uh, my family lives in, they're shit. They, they, they only fix anything. And they won't fix anything unless you hound them.
Right? And when they do, they do it as cheaply as possible. They literally had to, uh, to come back and, and work on our kitchen sink, the faucet seven times, because they kept doing it wrong. They kept sending someone out and they didn't do it right. It's like, why don't you just pay to have it done right the first time? Then you don't have to waste more money. Right? So it's like, and our neighbor,
Pete (35:18.009)
Hmm.
Chris O'Neil (35:24.074)
came up to us one day was like, how come they come and fix stuff at your place and they don't come to my place? Because we don't shut up. We keep hounding them and hounding them and hounding them. It took three years for us to get them to come and replace the shower that almost fell through the goddamn ceiling because there was enough water damage to rot the crossbeams. So it's not an easy thing. It's not.
and on a fucking national scale, like that's another reason why we're doing this, right? To continue the conversation, to get the information out there and to get all you fellas in support because I know you guys are feeling the pinch here too. So.
Pete (36:08.761)
Yeah, and we're not just doing it for ourselves, but it's for all of the future generations to come. You know, it's there are more people coming until the sun swallows the fucking earth. There's going to be more and more kids.
Chris O'Neil (36:12.759)
No.
Chris O'Neil (36:16.33)
Yeah, hopefully, right?
And that's. Yeah. And that's the powerful the powerful part of this. Right. Is remembering that. And I forget how it was actually said. And it is it's a Chinese proverb, but it was the idea that a wise man plants a tree he will never whose shade he will never sit under. You know, because.
It's a wise, intelligent, smart thing to give to subsequent generations. It just is. Right. And our kids deserve better. They really do. And it's, it's unfortunately up to us to create that society that values and supports them because no one's going to just hand it to us clearly. So as we're doing now, let's just keep this conversation going. Right.
Pete (36:57.305)
Yeah.
Pete (37:03.065)
Fucking A.
Pete (37:13.913)
No.
Chris O'Neil (37:18.194)
So keep it going on the Facebook page.
Pete (37:19.417)
And you know what else would help?
You know what else would help, Chris? Is if we voted in elected officials that weren't fucking dried up old prunes. If they were young family people in there that fucking understood the struggle. But even then, I don't even know if they would understand it, they would just get on the take and then they don't have problems anymore. All of a sudden, they're taking bribes from fucking tobacco and shit like that.
Chris O'Neil (37:28.663)
That would help.
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (37:40.662)
Well, the biggest thing, the biggest thing that I want to see...
Yeah, the biggest change that I want to see is people in Congress having to have the same healthcare that we do. Because everyone who's voting on what healthcare should be does not have the shit ass healthcare that everyone in the country has. They have unique special healthcare for people in Congress. So until you're going through what everyone else is going through, you're never going to vote.
Pete (38:07.513)
Nope.
Oh yeah.
Chris O'Neil (38:13.49)
in our interest you're gonna vote in the lobbyist interest because you could give a shit because it's not affecting you and let's be honest I'm never gonna sit here and say that I don't pay attention or I always pay attention to things that don't affect me because I certainly don't I get enough on my plate dealing with what does affect me and that's not to say that I don't do my best to look outside of my experience and do what I can to help other people
I think everyone should, but you can only do so much as an individual or a small group. But if we can do more of that, and as you said, get to the fucking polls, man. I know it seems, it just seems ridiculous and it's not gonna matter, but it does. And it's never just one election. It has to be an ongoing thing.
Pete (38:46.617)
Yep.
Pete (38:58.873)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (39:02.506)
That's it's a culmination of all of these. The conversations, the advocation and the elections. Yeah, go ahead.
Pete (39:04.409)
Like.
Pete (39:12.537)
Yeah.
You know, and with me, I know that I bitch about like a lot of the technological advancements, like your fucking bassinet that rocks the kid to sleep automatically. Yeah, sure, that stuff's stupid. But the stuff that really matters that we should be improving on is the support for families and parents, you know, to give them that opportunity so they don't have to fucking struggle constantly. We shouldn't have to worry about any of this stuff.
Chris O'Neil (39:25.155)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (39:42.166)
Well, and...
Pete (39:43.387)
money from our fucking taxes that they should be able to help our own fucking people. Instead of worrying about a war in another fucking country or fucking famines in other countries there are fucking famines here, there are people fighting, what the fuck. Just fix it in our backyard.
Chris O'Neil (39:58.87)
Well, and that's the other thing, like on the macro or the micro level, our best tool in our parenting toolkit is to lead by example, right? You have to model for your children. We as a country need to model for other countries instead of just, ah, fuck everyone here. Let's just, you know, let's make it so we get ours government-wise.
Pete (40:12.921)
Absolutely.
Chris O'Neil (40:25.782)
you know, let's help this country so it can look good to these other countries. And it, yeah. So if we can't take care of our own shit, it's, it's that much more difficult to take care of anyone else. Like that's, that's like human one-on-one. You got to fill your own cup before you start filling other people's. And I'm not saying that we just say, fuck the whole, the rest of the world.
Pete (40:49.209)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (40:52.762)
and we're the only country that matters. That's not what I'm saying, because that's a very different view. I'm saying the resources and the benefits, if we all work together and create much more benefit there, it's that much easier and quicker to get to that place where we can help other people, other countries, other parts of the world. So this idea of...
Pete (41:17.401)
America should be like Adam Sandler Sharing the wealth
Chris O'Neil (41:21.526)
How so? Well, yeah, there you go. Making movies with his friends, always.
Pete (41:25.753)
Sharing the wealth, dude. That's how so. All the time. All the fucking time.
Chris O'Neil (41:31.818)
Well, yeah, and that's the problem too is if you if well, and yeah, if you if you create scarcity and you tell everyone that they should be out for themselves, then you give them money expecting to share it. Why do you think they're going to share it if you've convinced them they should be out for themselves? Right. So.
Pete (41:33.433)
And family is important, you know? I mean...
Pete (41:54.329)
Bye.
Chris O'Neil (41:54.834)
I truly believe that like we're talking about, this is an inside out thing. It's from bottom to top. That's the only way it's gonna change because clearly the people at the top don't give a shit. So this is the importance of these conversations, the advocacy as you said, and the ongoing desire and willingness to work on changing it.
Pete (42:07.161)
Yeah.
Pete (42:17.081)
Yep. That is so very true. So very true. You know, and I don't know, did I already mention this quote from that article from the Atlantic, where the lady was asked if she would ever move back to the US, and she said that she eventually would? And she had asked, the person that asked her, you know,
Chris O'Neil (42:36.306)
I know you didn't mention that yet.
Pete (42:44.857)
what his thoughts were and he had said that his wife had actually been offered a job in America and that it would have been great for her career. But he said on the flip side, we figured it would be too dangerous for our kids. And that right there says a lot. You don't want to go to the land of opportunity because it might fucking kill your family. What kind of opportunity is that? Really?
Chris O'Neil (42:59.618)
Yeah.
Chris O'Neil (43:06.694)
Yeah, that's fucked up. Well, and that's the thing, right? There's the kind of crux of it all right there. If you're just going for yourself as an adult, for your career, then yeah, land of opportunity. And there are still plenty of people that come here from way worse countries that make enough money to send home to their family, for sure.
Pete (43:20.857)
Amen.
Pete (43:29.817)
Oh yeah.
Chris O'Neil (43:30.258)
not knocking that and to anyone who would even think to say well if you don't like it why don't you move or get out of the country that comment bothers the shit out of me because it's the assumption that well you live here you should just shut up and enjoy it that's basically what you're saying
as opposed to, hey, just cause... What?
Pete (43:53.945)
I actually...
Pete (43:59.033)
I actually have a comeback for people that say that. I would, but America makes it too difficult.
Chris O'Neil (44:01.951)
Oh, okay. Well, hold on, let me...
Chris O'Neil (44:06.654)
Well, yeah, there is that too. Well, yeah, because you can't you can't save enough to go anywhere. Right.
Pete (44:08.185)
America makes it too difficult to afford.
Pete (44:15.609)
No. And the other con- the other flipside of that is most fucking countries hate Americans. So... We've done it to ourselves.
Chris O'Neil (44:21.89)
Oh yeah, there is that too.
Chris O'Neil (44:26.678)
But yeah, it has to... See, now I lost my train of thought. What the fuck was I saying before?
Pete (44:34.457)
I don't know.
Chris O'Neil (44:35.722)
No, just before you said your comeback. Oh, yeah. OK. The where it just moved to another country. Well, it's that would that would be the assumption that, oh, well, so I'm not supposed to make where I am better. Well, we're already the best. So shut the fuck up. So we just stop. You stop learning, you stop improving, you stop making shit better. Nothing is fucking perfect, man. It doesn't matter how great it is, it can always be better. And especially for.
for people that have always had it sucky over here. Just because it's been great for a certain group of people doesn't mean it's been great for everybody. And just because it's better than it ever has been doesn't mean it can't get even better. And that whole idea of, yeah, poverty in general, abject poverty, all of those violent crimes.
Pete (45:18.489)
Absolutely.
Chris O'Neil (45:31.442)
all of those horrible things that have happened to people throughout the centuries is less than it has ever been across the world. That is true. There's still a whole bunch of horrible shit happening though. So let's not negate that.
Pete (45:50.233)
Absolutely. Well, Chris, before this fucking causes my blood pressure to rise even higher than it already is, I think I'm gonna bring it close to this episode because it's infuriating to know that we just are stuck in a trap, it seems like. Hopefully we can get our way out of it in our lifetime. Hopefully this episode hits home to a lot of you guys and gals, if there's any gals listening.
Chris O'Neil (46:02.125)
Indeed.
Chris O'Neil (46:12.886)
That would be amazing.
Pete (46:20.057)
If you have any questions, you want a link to the article, please send us a message on our email to dadsunfiltered at gmail.com. Hit us up on Facebook, dadsunfiltered. You can hit us up at TikTok, dadsunfiltered. You can leave comments there. I like it when people like my videos, so bring it.
Chris O'Neil (46:35.746)
please do. Yeah, yeah we do. And we'll post this to the Facebook page as well, the Dads Unfiltered Podcast Facebook page, just so everyone can read the article if they want to.
Pete (46:50.745)
I'll have to figure out how to do that because it's behind a paywall, but I will do that.
Chris O'Neil (46:55.188)
Maybe we'll just do the screenshot version like you did to me.
Pete (46:59.481)
Yeah, 25 individual pictures. Well, anyway.
Chris O'Neil (47:00.023)
Yes.
Yes, well, yeah, there have been more. There have been more. Yeah, anyway guys, let's keep the conversation going. You know, it's true. It's true. How are we gonna, yeah. I, yeah, I'm, and I'm headed off to have a weekend for my birthday, as Pete had mentioned in the beginning. My birthday was on Tuesday. I am 44 now, and,
Pete (47:08.281)
We recorded this a day earlier than usual.
Because Chris is going away and he forgot to tell me.
Chris O'Neil (47:33.114)
i haven't been away awhile so uh... my wife offered to take the kids for the weekend so i could go away with couple buddies so
Pete (47:43.065)
Well, there you go. Well, have fun. Don't do anything I wouldn't do. And enjoy. Ha ha ha ha. Well, guys, we will see you next week, right?
Chris O'Neil (47:47.018)
I'll try not to, Empathiny.
Chris O'Neil (47:56.406)
Yes, we will. Yes.
Pete (48:02.425)
Have a good week.