Exhaustion: When Life Becomes a Marathon

In this episode, Pete and Chris discuss the topic of exhaustion and its impact on fatherhood. They share their personal experiences with feeling drained and tired, particularly in relation to parenting responsibilities. The conversation explores various factors contributing to exhaustion, including the modern lifestyle of constant hustle, exposure to stressors outside of our control, and the pressure to be constantly busy. They also discuss the challenges of balancing work and personal life, societal changes, and financial pressures. The episode concludes with strategies for combating exhaustion and prioritizing self-care. The conversation explores the disenfranchisement and exhaustion experienced by men in today's society. It highlights the importance of asking for help and seeking support when needed. The stigma surrounding asking for help is discussed, emphasizing the strength in recognizing when one is struggling and needs assistance. The conversation also delves into the changing norms and the impact on mental health. It emphasizes the need to prioritize one's own mental, physical, and emotional well-being over societal expectations. The chapter concludes with a call to continue the conversation and take action to improve one's life and the lives of loved ones.

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Transcript

Pete (00:00.928)
Hey there, my unfiltered friends. Welcome back to yet another episode of Dad's Unfiltered, the podcast where we dive deep into the joys and struggles and everything in between of fatherhood. I'm Pete, and honestly, what a fucking day. Wait, what a week this day has been. Yeah, I don't know, I'm too fucking tired for this. Chris is somewhere in California. Say hi.

Chris O'Neil (00:19.538)
Hahaha

Chris O'Neil (00:28.638)
Yeah, and I'm Chris. I'm too fucking exhausted to come up with anything this week too, so there you go. Apropos, our topic for this week. Ha ha ha. Ah, what is that topic, Pete?

Pete (00:45.688)
So today, we're tackling a topic that's hitting close to home for many of us, exhaustion. I mean, let's face it, with all the responsibilities and shit that we juggle, it's no wonder that we often feel like we're god damn zombies. I gotta be honest with you. I started to feel tired almost immediately after my first son was born, like some sort of life force was being sucked from me, like in The Princess Bride. All right? That machine.

Chris O'Neil (01:13.206)
Yeah.

Pete (01:15.048)
It was like, I was like on that fucking-

Chris O'Neil (01:15.898)
I've just sucked one year of your life away. I might one day go as high as five, but I really don't know what that would do to you. So let's just start with what we have. Yeah.

Pete (01:22.404)
Tell me how do you feel?

Pete (01:31.456)
But yeah dude, as soon as that life force entered, I just immediately felt fucking drained. These bags, they started to form like the grand fucking canyon on my face. Life was never the same. And then the second one, forget it. Because especially with Zach too, because you have two typical kids. I have Zach and he's autistic, so I know that a lot of his shit is driven on a motor, so there was a lot of less sleep.

Chris O'Neil (01:39.351)
Hmm

Chris O'Neil (01:52.802)
Hmm.

Chris O'Neil (01:58.61)
Yeah.

Pete (01:59.7)
and it was very egg shell-y type feeling. Like, oh fuck. Like, I can't sleep too heavy because that motherfucker might run away. Ha ha ha.

Chris O'Neil (02:03.74)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (02:07.514)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and that's a whole other level of stress about it too, for sure. And I, you know, I joked, joked with my wife about the fact that, like putting down a sleepy sleeping baby is like, diffusing a bomb, you know, it's like, slowly move the red wire, like taking off the carrier so they don't wake up so you can get them on the bed or in the crib or whatever it happens to be, because you're fucked.

Pete (02:33.748)
Yeah, oh yeah.

Chris O'Neil (02:36.95)
The, like, one tiny wrong move changes your experience of not having a kid to focus on for a matter of hours. And that's a big deal on a day that you don't get much sleep. So yeah, I totally get that. And I'm still in the throes of that.

Pete (02:53.38)
I'll be honest, there have been times where I just stayed where I was, just so the kid would stay asleep. Like, alright, well, this is where I'll stay for the next two hours.

Chris O'Neil (02:59.571)
Oh yeah!

Yeah, my wife and I text each other back and forth. We call it nap-trapped. It's like, hey, can you get this for me? Sorry, I'm nap-trapped. Yeah, I've laid, just, you know, whatever I have in reach is the only thing I can do. So I gotta make, like, I gotta set myself up. So, you know, I have the things that I need. I can reach a bottle of water. I have my phone. Yeah. Fo' sho'.

Pete (03:10.305)
Yeah.

Pete (03:22.849)
Yeah.

Pete (03:32.48)
Yeah, it's like hand solo and calvary.

Chris O'Neil (03:37.262)
Yes, except we're not in hibernation. But yes, that to kick things off with regard to our topic this week, I stumbled upon this article in Time magazine, and it was titled, Why we're more exhausted than ever. And this I found interesting, because we talk about being tired and exhausted as parents. But this is like across the board, like as a country. And

It actually, it really shed more light on some contributing factors for this, you know, collective burnout that so many people are experiencing. And, you know, like anything else, there are so many factors. It's never just one thing. And it was one thing when, you know, we had individual stress in our lives, and then we connected to the larger part of society for some benefit. But now society itself is perpetuating these things that.

are continuing to make us more exhausted. And that was the point of the article. So it's, it's an it was an it's a short article, too. I'll post it on the episode, but it definitely worth the conversation.

Pete (04:41.721)
Hmm.

Pete (04:50.884)
According to time, it says it's a six minute read. If you have children, it's about an hour.

Chris O'Neil (04:57.012)
Yeah. Because when can you actually sit down and do anything from beginning to end with kids?

Pete (05:00.001)
My favorite.

Pete (05:05.136)
That's why I a lot of things lately audio like I'll put in a fucking headphone And I got one ear free and the other one listening to other shit But I love that So, I mean, I'm relatively still on the younger side of things But I still have to look up all these new terms like they like quiet quitting. I've heard of Coffee badging I've never heard of I was in the middle of reading about that, but Yeah, and bare minimum Mondays. I mean

Chris O'Neil (05:10.516)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (05:19.819)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (05:25.258)
Yup. I hadn't heard of that one either.

Pete (05:33.068)
That's like every fucking Monday for like everybody across the board.

Chris O'Neil (05:34.122)
That's since the beginning of, yeah, forever. Yeah.

Pete (05:41.612)
But yeah, I would think, I mean a lot of it lately for me, I definitely notice, I mean I joke about the life force feeling like it's been sucked out of me with the kids. And that does add a lot in running around and chasing and making sure that they're all doing their shit. And you're with the little ones now, so you are more in the thick of it with that shit. And more so once the youngest gets even older and starts to do more shit than sleep, eat and poop. So.

Chris O'Neil (06:02.356)
Yeah.

Pete (06:10.408)
I'm on the end of it. My kid's my oldest is 18. Zachary doesn't do shit. He plays baseball on Sundays. So there's not a whole lot of running around for him. A lot of the stuff now, though, it's just like a mental exhaustion. I think after COVID, I am just so much more exhausted mentally than anything else. And I don't even know. It's not because of COVID, because I had it a few times. I'm not going to lie. I don't think it's because of that. I feel normal.

Chris O'Neil (06:18.721)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (06:30.849)
Yeah.

Pete (06:40.436)
I'm just kinda... My exhaustion is more with people and the way that things are starting to become. Cause it's like a fucking nightmare.

Chris O'Neil (06:46.785)
Yeah.

Yeah, and, well, and, and this is, yeah, and this is kind of the point you said mental. And according to the article, there are a few key reasons behind the increasing exhaustion levels that we all have. But first off, it's modern day lifestyle is 24 seven hustle, right? It's between work, family commitments, trying to maintain some semblance of a social life. It looks like we're constantly in overdrive.

Pete (06:51.156)
and navigating it is...

Chris O'Neil (07:19.886)
And the bigger aspect of that, because it's not like, that's 100% new. It's more the lack of certain other things that would normally offset that because it's that again, we've talked about it in previous episodes like the, the productivity and emotion or American exceptionalism type of thing. But you were saying it's more of the mental exhaustion, which

is a huge factor. And I want to read a couple quotes here from the article itself. It says stress within our control, like a big project, something we're working on bouncing, balancing a demanding job and childcare, doing something that scares us that type of stress can be mitigated and builds confidence when addressed stress outside of our control, such as

violence in our cities, climate disasters, tragedy around the world, inflation, things like that, makes us feel helpless. So while it's important that we aren't ignorant to what is going on in the world, it also weighs on us to take in so many stressors without the possibility of resolution. And that, that connects to the idea. And I remember when I heard this, and I've said this on the podcast, too. The fact that back in the day before the internet, you may be heard about

Pete (08:23.089)
Mm-hmm.

Pete (08:34.925)
Yep.

Chris O'Neil (08:43.758)
five horrible things in the world in a day. And now we're bombarded by upwards of 500 in a day. So there is so much out of our control that we're focused on that it's like, again, that helpless feeling perpetuates so much more in our lives than it did before.

So it's how we're exposed to information and the fact that we've reached a point now culminating in the pandemic, that it's how things have changed has finally caught up to us basically is what the article saying. Another quote that stress causes exhaustion is not revolutionary, of course. But it is exposure to stress outside of our control that makes us lose hope. And this was the other thing I was like, holy shit, that's big.

Pete (09:11.116)
Right.

Chris O'Neil (09:40.162)
Hope is a powerful counter to exhaustion and burnout. We can endure difficulties with much higher morale when we retain hope that things will get better. When everywhere we turn, there is news making us feel like things aren't getting better, we begin to break down. And I thought that was such a big acknowledgement, again, from a social media perspective, right? It's just sensationalism and the world's going to shit and.

Pete (09:45.644)
difficult to watch our morale. We retain hope that we can get better. When everywhere we turn, there is fear that is making us feel like things.

Pete (09:58.988)
search.

Chris O'Neil (10:07.95)
clickbait and headlines and you know, it's, it's all this stuff designed to keep us scared to keep us engaged and keep us occupied, right. And it's coming to a head now with our post pandemic reality. And it totally makes sense to me.

Pete (10:21.217)
Yep.

Pete (10:31.012)
So for a lot of my stuff with that, yeah, I watch the news. Honestly, it's because my girlfriend likes to watch it. I don't. Even the fucking weather is disappointing at this point. I mean, there is like no good thing. And I try, I mean, I listen and I hear the things that are going on and yes, they upset me. But.

Chris O'Neil (10:43.478)
Hahaha, yeah.

Pete (10:56.116)
When it comes down to it for me, I think more locally than I do globally as far as that shit. I'm more concerned about the things that are directly affecting me. Yes, I'm not happy about, you know, the bombings in Jerusalem or wherever. I'm not happy about the whole Russia and Ukraine thing. I'm not happy that no one's globally legalizing weed. You know, these are all things that piss me off. But I can only really...

Chris O'Neil (11:02.306)
Hmm.

Pete (11:27.012)
make the difference for the things that directly affect me. And I keep that more like, that's more of my focus than it is the shit going on outside of the world. Because at this point, before, that was a big thing when I was expecting my first child, was what kind of world am I bringing my kid into? Because...

Chris O'Neil (11:30.238)
Well, yeah, anyone can, yeah.

Pete (11:54.208)
At that point, you know, like Columbine had already happened, all that sort of shit. So there was those stresses. That must be exhausting for you because you're in that, the thick of that shit and it only seems to be getting worse from everything going on.

Chris O'Neil (12:06.922)
Well, just meaning having kids at school, like young school kid age, right? Is that what you mean? Yeah. Yeah, like you're kind of on the tail end. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pete (12:10.552)
Ahem.

Yeah, the younger kids. So now, I mean, yeah, the tail end of that. So all right, now I don't have to worry so much about school shootings, but now it's just like shootings everywhere else because they seem to be just popping up at celebrations and things of that. That'll be the next gender reveal, I guess. It'll just like take out the fucking correct gender of the baby in the crowd. I don't know, but it just seems to be trending more and more to that sort of shit. And it sucks.

Chris O'Neil (12:25.93)
Right.

Chris O'Neil (12:35.73)
Yeah, Jesus.

Pete (12:44.244)
But again, I just I try to think locally and I have a lot of stresses like that It's funny because I was talking to Jana the other day that I would like to go and see concerts But because of all these shootings, I don't think I really want to go like movies were a big thing for me I love going to movie theaters. I love going to see movies on big screens That fucking guy that shot up that Batman movie man ever since then I Haven't been right. I like I am like

Chris O'Neil (12:57.621)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (13:07.546)
Oh yeah. Yeah.

Pete (13:13.152)
Like, I am the fattest CIA agent on the planet when I go to a movie theater, because I'm like checking out all the exits, I'm like scoping everybody out, even though like, you know, like I'm some sort of elite forces and I'm gonna take this shit down. No, I'm looking where I can go and run and fucking hide. And it sucks. And even during the movie, somebody shows up late after the fucking shit started, like I'm suspicious of them. Like, what do they got? What are they doing? So yeah, I get that. And it sucks.

Chris O'Neil (13:21.885)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (13:29.702)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris O'Neil (13:37.588)
Yeah.

Well, yeah. Well, and there is.

Pete (13:43.168)
And it's exhausting, because by the end of the movie, I'm tired. I miss plot points, because I'm too concerned about the fuck with popcorn that showed up 35 minutes into the fucking thing. It just, yeah, it's a nightmare. I can't.

Chris O'Neil (13:54.314)
Well, and this is the irony of this whole thing too, because it is statistically proven that we have never been as safe as we are now. Poverty has never been as low as it is now. Opportunity has never been as big as it is now compared to years in the past. What has changed is our awareness of certain things.

Right? So it seems like, like we talked about this before, how parents or parents in general, but people just, oh, it was so much safer back in the day. Why, why are parents so protective of their kids now? Because we know more shit. Like we talked about this a couple episodes ago where you could just let your kids go out and you know, excuse me, they come home when the streetlights come on. That wasn't because it was safer back then. It was because we didn't know how dangerous it actually was.

And statistically speaking, regardless of how dangerous it is, the chances of your kid getting taken, you know, compared to how many kids there are, yeah, is relatively low. But that's, that doesn't mean that it was safer, you know? And I think it's the assumption being that because, because we know more, it's less safe. It was just ignorance is bliss before, you know?

Pete (15:10.477)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (15:23.29)
And I think on the flip side that, you know, that tends to be a conservative talking point. It's like, will you stop your goddamn complaining? It's never been as good as it is now. Yeah, I get that, but it can still also be better. And just because it's better than it has been doesn't mean there isn't work to do in the moment. You know what I mean? So there's.

Pete (15:46.656)
Yeah, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it sucks. It's not a complaint. It's just a fact.

Chris O'Neil (15:52.102)
Oh, yeah, it absolutely does. Because it's no, it's the acknowledgement that we have so many concerns on so many different fronts, that it's become bigger. And because there are things in our day to day experience that continue to perpetuate those issues. And if we're not present and aware, and understanding of what's happening, we're just going to fall into the stream of that and get, you know, pulled along. That's really what's the

Pete (16:02.064)
Mm.

Chris O'Neil (16:21.214)
the bigger issue, you know?

Pete (16:23.576)
Yeah. You know, and the thing too here is, you know, here we are talking about exhaustion and mental exhaustion. And I know a lot of you guys are thinking, you know, maybe you just guys need to have a sleep study done. And I just want to let you all know that I have a fucking sleep apnea mask and I sleep with that shit every day. I have no issues because my little machine reports it and says, hey, buddy, you're doing all right. So I know that I'm not tired from lack of sleep because I look like fucking Bane when I go to bed.

Chris O'Neil (16:38.102)
So do I.

Chris O'Neil (16:44.556)
Hahaha

Pete (16:51.54)
and I wake up with the mask imprinted on my face. Like, I have to run hot water to steam out the fucking impression of the mask on my face. It's fucking terrible. Or do you have the full face? Do you have the full face like this? So.

Chris O'Neil (16:57.194)
Yeah. Take, take control of your city. I yeah, I got this one. And I wake up with a frigging red mark on my nose from the pressure of the mask in the middle of the night.

Pete (17:12.28)
So my nose is crooked. Like if you look at me, my nose is like fucked up. I've never broken it. I'm just born with a fucked up nose. So it causes the mask to not sit right. So it blows air into this one eye and dries everything the fuck out. And it's like every night I wake up and I'm like, what the fuck? Like blind in one eye, I got the ring around my face.

Chris O'Neil (17:18.348)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (17:26.85)
UGHH! I hate that. Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (17:38.098)
Like, why do I have cataracts? Yeah.

Pete (17:42.212)
and Jana, she has the one that just, I call it the piggly wiggly, because it just goes over the nose. And, but it puts, there's two like round things on the mask that leave impressions on her face, so she looks like Frankenstein. I'm like, hey, you got bolts in the side of your neck, what the hell's going on there? But yeah, it's not exhaustion because of lack of sleep. I had the sleep study done, I get the mask. I'm just exhausted by the way shit is going.

Chris O'Neil (17:53.622)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (17:57.024)
Ha ha ha!

Chris O'Neil (18:02.012)
Ah, yeah, this shit.

Chris O'Neil (18:11.454)
Well, and that is certainly a part of it. I am exhausted from lack of sleep, but I'm in the throes of baby number two, so.

Pete (18:12.941)
and

Pete (18:19.208)
Yeah, well, you know, and I got my 18 year old, I mean, he, thankfully, like, him not being in the house anymore has made my mornings a little bit better because there's no fighting and no arguing, but I'm still up worrying. You know, I see that he's out of school here and there and everywhere, and that is a constant, you know, point of concern, even though I had to remove him from the property because of the way that things were going.

Chris O'Neil (18:32.671)
Hmm.

Chris O'Neil (18:37.634)
Yeah.

Pete (18:47.116)
Like that was more stressful too, and that caused me to sleep like shit because I didn't want to wake up in the morning to get his ass up, or I'd get up super early. So I thought that like I could cushion it. If I started earlier, then maybe it won't be so bad. Wrong. It just was actually worse.

Chris O'Neil (19:03.138)
Hehehehe

Chris O'Neil (19:07.582)
Yeah, and I I'm certainly obviously not in that boat, but I'm certainly getting. Just taste of it with my five year old just trying to get her up for school. And I am I am a proponent, actually, and this is getting off topic a little bit, just the acknowledgement of I'm a proponent of starting school later because. It's well, number one, it was designed to get children used to being in the workforce. That's.

part of why it's eight hours a day, right, or six hours a day. But that's another study that's been proven multiple times that kids need not only more sleep, but they need later sleep based on their circadian rhythm. And they learn better when they start learning later in the day. And by later, I mean, like 10 o'clock instead of eight, you know, it's just a couple hours. But it makes a difference. I'm a big proponent of that.

Pete (20:05.336)
Yeah, well, you might be because you don't go anywhere for work. But the people that have to be at a job at 9 in the morning might disagree with your opinion on that, buddy. Just saying.

Chris O'Neil (20:15.402)
Well, they can disagree with the desire to have it, but they can't disagree with the stats and the science.

Pete (20:21.964)
No, I'm just saying. I mean, it's also more of a convenience thing. In Danvers, man, the kids are, fuck, they go to school before I even go to work. They are starting at like 7.30. But then they're out at like 1.55.

Chris O'Neil (20:31.711)
Yeah. Really?

Oh, geez. Yeah, see what it and if you're gonna, if you're gonna screw with parents work schedule anyway, why not offset it to later instead of earlier. But

Pete (20:49.124)
You know, and honestly with elementary it was even worse because that was when I couldn't leave them be. I mean I still can't leave Zachary to his own devices because he'd probably take the fucking house apart. But now with the teenagers it's a little bit easier. Zachary obviously had to be there for but when they were in elementary school I couldn't work for shit. I was like out of work by noon. I was in at eight and then out at twelve.

Chris O'Neil (21:01.499)
Yeah

Chris O'Neil (21:16.077)
Yeah.

Pete (21:19.076)
That was fucking delightful. You wanna talk about exhaustion? Fucking, I hate going into the office and that was beautiful. What are you looking at? You had a bug?

Chris O'Neil (21:26.83)
I feel like, no, getting a little flash. I had to turn the desk light on because it was getting too dark in here. I usually have it on from the beginning and I just didn't put it on, but I'm getting a little flicker. I don't know if you can see that on your end. All right, fair enough.

Pete (21:39.776)
Nah man, I'm lucky if it doesn't freeze up on me.

Chris O'Neil (21:43.95)
It doesn't work.

Ah, yes, yes. Well, getting back to the topic at hand, the other factory and this actually connects because we just talked about work and how that affects our kids schedule and all that. And we have this culture of busyness, right? That's it's just become the norm. And it's been it's been decades. It's not like this is a new thing. But again, it's

with modern technology and the pandemic and all this stuff, it's really caught up and inflation, all of the things that have changed. And I'll get to there's another quote from the article I want to read, but it's basically we're packing our schedules. And we're holding those up as a badge of honor, you know, like being busy is synonymous with success. And just if you're not I feel this way myself.

Pete (22:35.948)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (22:40.766)
as a stay at home parent, I feel like I'm doing nothing because I'm not bringing in an income. We talked about this many times before. But it's, that stuff has been drilled into our heads that if we're not doing that whole, you know, when you're working at a restaurant, you got time to lean, you got time to clean. I fucking hated that phrase. But again, that's.

that's working in a certain industry, because of what that industry requires. There's something else with regard to assuming that you can't just take a break, you can't like, you feel guilty sitting down to read a book, because you're not doing something more productive. You know, like, that's the shit that bugs the fuck out of me.

Pete (23:09.643)
Yeah.

Pete (23:22.472)
Well, I mean, we're conditioned to equate productivity with how much we can cram into a day, even if it means sacrificing our own well-being in the process. You know, honestly though, I've been a lifelong, well not a lifelong, but The Simpsons came out when I was eight years old and I since then have been an underachiever and fucking proud of it. It's not worth it to me. It never has been to like just jam everything in. Like...

What experience are you taking away from like having to rush around and do this, that, and the other thing like in a constant state of upheaval? You know like oh fuck I gotta go pick up little Joey from school and then we gotta rush over and do hockey practice with his 500 fucking pound bag of pads and skates and all that bullshit and then from there we gotta take his sister Emily to fucking field hockey and then oh my god Joey has his fucking saxophone lesson and then I maybe have time to make dinner before

Chris O'Neil (24:09.746)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pete (24:20.896)
We shuffle off to Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. Do kids still do that? I don't know. And then maybe there'll be, maybe we can stop and have ice cream a good time as a family and then off to bed. So we can just do this shit all over again. And I don't know how that's enjoyable for anybody. Kids, parents, nobody.

Chris O'Neil (24:25.098)
I think so, yeah.

Chris O'Neil (24:33.17)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and again, like...

Chris O'Neil (24:39.886)
No, and you're stuck in it. And this is this is a huge awareness for me, because I've caught myself in moments like this. It's like, why the fuck are we doing this? If it's not of benefit to us? We shouldn't be doing it just to do it. And I think that's a big factor with a lot of that stuff is it's just it's become the norm. It's what you do. And if you're not aware of it, and you're just kind of sucked into the status quo of, you know, the society you're living in.

then you're going to have those issues, you know. And it's yeah, it, this is the whole wake up thing. That I think no matter, no matter where you're from, what your political affiliations are, what your religious beliefs are, like is the generalize the reasoning behind it, I think is different depending on what your philosophy is. But it's pretty much everybody talking about

Pete (25:37.924)
Cough.

Chris O'Neil (25:38.458)
Waking up you got to wake up to all the bullshit that's happening and I think regardless of your ideology Just the idea of that is a good thing to be more aware not just mindlessly going through what you're doing really paying attention and being aware of what's happening and how you're being influenced and There's an interesting story going around a lot of podcasts and social media and stuff that I've heard and I feel like this applies to this whole you know

philosophy of busyness that we have. And it was the Mexican fisherman. Have you heard this story?

Chris O'Neil (26:16.534)
So it's basically this, you know, wealthy American businessman goes down to Mexico and sees this Mexican fisherman in the end of a dock just fishing. And he strikes up a conversation with him. And he's like, Hey, you know, what are you, what are you doing? I was like, Oh, well, I fish off the end of this dock. I'm I bring the fish to market. I make enough from, you know, my family's needs for the day. And then I go spend some time with my kids, relax, you know, have some espresso or coffee or tea or whatever. And then.

talk with friends and family and then go to sleep and wake up and do it the next day. And he's like, Oh, well, why don't you, you know, do more with that? You can't be, you know, just doing that. It's not a productive life. You could take that fish to market, you could spend a little extra time, make a little bit more and then start hiring your friends to do more. And then that turns into a bigger production, then you're making more money, then you can ultimately

you know, build up a bigger business. And he's like, well, why would I want to do that? Well, then so you can retire and then spend your days on a dock in Mexico fishing and spending time with your family. And he's like, why would I go through all of that when I'm doing that already? Right, so it's the assumption that if you're not succeeding in that way,

then you're wasting your life, you're wasting your opportunities. And the irony of course being, if the point of going through all of that is to get what you already have, then what is the point of it? Right?

Pete (27:48.792)
the irony of force being. If the point of going through all of that is the gift we already have, then what is the point? Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (27:58.082)
So I appreciated that story.

Pete (27:59.16)
It's true.

Chris O'Neil (28:01.982)
Um, well, and, uh, we had already mentioned the information, um, you know, thanks to the technology. And this is another factor for me, like the smartphone's aspect of things, cause everything's in arm's reach. You can, you know, you, you always have some sort of dopamine hit or stimuli that you can force in your brain, keeping us plugged in constantly. And I know for me.

Pete (28:25.668)
Hmm.

Chris O'Neil (28:31.642)
I had this little mentality of well, if I if I just play a game or watch a video, I can mindlessly do that for a minute and stop whenever I want if something more important comes up. But if I get into a book, or if I decide to meditate or something, and then something else comes up, then that's interrupted. So it's easier to do something that's a little more mindless and that I don't care about so much. Because I can just put it down. And that's

it makes sense in my brain, but it's also a constant excuse to not dig more into personal self care, you know. And I think that is a problem for all of us. Yeah.

Pete (29:13.4)
Well, I mean, it's a double-edged sword, for sure. Yeah, it's a double-edged sword, man. You know, I mean, on one hand, it makes everything a little bit easier, but on the other, it's blurring the lines between work and personal time and making it harder to switch off and unwind. It's also kind of really fucking hindering on a lot of interpersonal skills.

Like a lot of people, like you'll see. It's funny. Actually, there was a thing that I just saw. Oh, our favorite thing to do is sit in front of a bigger screen next to each other while we're on little screens watching other things. And then sometimes we'll text each other when you're sitting right next to each other. It's fucking unnerving. You know? But that's just the way that it's become.

Chris O'Neil (29:39.223)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (29:47.583)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (29:52.398)
Yeah, yeah. It really is. Yeah. Yeah, it's yeah, it's the new reality. Yeah, and I think as dads.

Pete (30:03.072)
Like, I don't look at my phone during the podcast because I'm using it as a fucking camera.

Chris O'Neil (30:07.19)
Right. And I can't deny the fact that, you know, if I see a notification, I will look down. I've done it, I think, two or three times already. And yeah, it's just, we are, we're addicted to our phones. There's no getting around that. Every single person who has one is addicted to it. It's just a matter of like, to what extent, you know? But to that point, like, as dads, we're feeling so much pressure.

Pete (30:24.362)
Oh yeah.

Chris O'Neil (30:36.878)
And then this is obviously we're talking to dads moms have plenty of pressure on their own plate. But it's just it's more it's more and it's more potent. Like we have the pressure to be everything for everybody. And bring in a paycheck, you know, the supportive partner, the attentive parent, this the successful breadwinner like that's the biggest one for all of us, right? It's

It's the same reason why I get that little twinge of I should be doing more as a stay at home parent because I'm not the primary bread winner right now. And that goes back to those in the truck moments that I mentioned before where it's just, you're in the car or truck going, what the fuck, I don't know, just like screaming, getting out your frustrations before you go in to see your family so you don't take it out on them. Like that's where those moments come from. You know, and it's,

perpetuated through all of what we're talking about with the modern technology and social media and all that.

Pete (31:30.626)
Yeah.

Pete (31:38.596)
Yeah, it's the truth, man. But, you know, I mean, as a parent, you also have to think of all of the additional things that come with that, you know? It's not just about the physicality. It's about constantly juggling a million different fucking things in your head. You know, you gotta remember school projects to family planning vacations, last minute bake sales. Fucking, oh, by the way, dad, I have a project that has to be done tomorrow. You know, I mean, there's all those millions of little things, and I mean, and I know it's also...

Chris O'Neil (31:59.339)
Hahaha

Chris O'Neil (32:03.165)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pete (32:08.332)
It's exhausting being a single parent or even just, not even being a single parent, but being a single person with everything going on. I mean, because you're still, whether you have kids or not, you're conditioned to that. And then you also might even have that underlying thing that us breeders don't have, is someone on your side or on your spouse's side nagging you for fucking grandkids. That's gotta be mentally taxing. You know, having your family go,

Chris O'Neil (32:32.391)
Oh yeah. Yeah.

Pete (32:37.612)
Huh? What are you gonna do it? You need help? You know, your mother snooping around in your fucking bathroom poking holes in all the goddamn condoms. Like, I'm gonna get a grandkid whether I want you, you good son of bitches. But yeah, it's gonna be exhausting. Oh, I know. I know.

Chris O'Neil (32:40.07)
Yeah. Get out of my love life, grandma.

Chris O'Neil (32:46.982)
Yeah, uh... Those people are insane.

Yeah, and it's, yeah, and obviously there are, we already talked about a number of factors, and there's so many, excuse me, so many reasons why so many of us are just constantly feeling burnt out and exhausted. Excuse me. On top of the fact that, like, new responsibilities that have shown up with regard to a lot of men and women looking at parenting as more of a partnership and less of a...

a gender role situation, right? So now, we're going through that transition. And I think it's a good one. And I think it's beneficial that it's happening. But it's also like, there's no, there's fewer definitive lines between this, like, this is my responsibility, and this is your responsibility as said by society. Now we have to do things more personally, like I'm taking on this responsibility, and I'm going to discuss with you what that looks like. And you know, so there's more to do.

as an individual and as a partner than before, because you just jump onto the bandwagon of what everyone else does. And it's like, okay, I'm a guy, this is what I'm supposed to do. You're a woman, this is what you're supposed to do, right? But those definitive lines aren't there like they used to be. So there's more personal responsibility to come up with that shit. And I think it's a good thing. Again, things like fair play and fellas.

I would highly recommend you look up Fair Play. There's a card deck, there's a book. It's a huge benefit to helping you create those connections, tasks, things, you know, agreements with you and your partner. Additional plug for that. They're not a sponsor or anything, but it is. It's a great tool. Anyway. We'll get there, Pete. We will get there.

Pete (34:46.9)
sponsor

Chris O'Neil (34:52.21)
Um, but that being a factor, let's not forget the societal changes that and this is another quote from, um, from the article with regard to inflation and how the financial situation has changed. Um, 50 years ago, a single income could afford you a house, car, wife and kids. Nowadays, you're lucky.

if a dual income can afford you some of those things. Having a hard job that supports your lifestyle is one thing. Having a hard job that barely pays the bills is another. Much of the exhaustion we're seeing is frustration that working full time or more doesn't translate to the same security and buying power it used to. Why are we working if not to afford the lifestyle we desire? So when that lifestyle...

going to a restaurant on special occasions, going to a concert with friends, getting your kids the Christmas gifts they want. When that lifestyle becomes unaffordable, frustration is understandable. Frustration over time turns into defeat, and defeat looks an awful lot like exhaustion. We've been a work-centered society for generations. However, it is becoming increasingly harder to convince people to live a busy, work-centered life when it doesn't translate to the quality of life that it used to.

And that is definitely coming to a head right now with the post-pandemic reality that we're living in.

Pete (36:24.384)
Yeah, that's true. It's very true. So what are some strategies that we can employ to combat this exhaustion and reclaim some of the semblances of balance in our lives?

Chris O'Neil (36:36.246)
Oh, that's a good question, Pete. Almost like it was cued. No, and I think it starts for sure with setting some solid boundaries for yourself. Like learning when to say no and when our plates are already overflowing. Prioritizing self-care, carving out time for activities that recharge your batteries. I know this is a lot easier to say that it is to do.

Pete (36:38.933)
Right? Did you like that?

Chris O'Neil (37:06.506)
But this is another quote from the article that I think applies here. At the end of the day, how we feel is determined by small decisions we make. How much sleep we get, prioritizing a morning walk with a friend, consuming media thoughtfully, refusing to discuss work and work stress when we're off the clock. A lot different when we're a stay-at-home parent or an entrepreneur, but still.

These small things make a big difference, but we must do them consistently and relentlessly, and that's the other challenge, right? We can't wait for challenges, or we can't wait for changes to come from the top down. We must address the factors of exhaustion within our control, within our control to ensure we live healthy, peaceful, and satisfying lives. And I think that going into that question of what do we actually do about it, this...

Pete (37:41.38)
Mm-hmm.

Ehhuh

Chris O'Neil (38:02.358)
This is the reality in our current society now. We have to take much more personal responsibility for this stuff because it's not gonna be done for us. And where we could normally plug into, granted in the past you just plug into this thing and if you're feeling like shit about it, sorry, too bad. This is how it is, right? But you still had a purpose. You had hope. The American dream was on everyone's...

tongue and lips and it was just like, Oh, yeah, this is what we're striving for. So there's a reason to keep doing it. Like, the fact that we're so disenfranchised now with that idea, and it doesn't even exist in its previous iteration, you know, there's no hopeful change that's coming. So that going back to the previous quote, that's, that's why people are so up in arms about it. Why we're so friggin exhausted all the time, because

Pete (38:39.467)
Mm-hmm.

Chris O'Neil (38:54.978)
There's no additional incentive to keep doing what we've been doing.

Pete (39:00.42)
Yeah, that's true. It is very true. You know, and the other thing too is you have to not underestimate the power of reaching out for support when you think you might need it. Help is always there, you know. I know that it's hard to ask, especially when you feel that others are probably preoccupied with their own shit, but you know, if you don't ask, you don't know.

Chris O'Neil (39:14.348)
Yeah.

Pete (39:26.728)
You can't just assume because they might, you know, your friends might also be in the same spot as you. You know, I mean it's whether it's learning from our partner or taking on or talking to a friend or even seeking, you know, some professional help. There is totally strength in recognizing when you're struggling and you need to ask for help. There really is nothing fucking wrong with that. You know, and I know that that's tough as men because I know that like

Chris O'Neil (39:26.956)
And you don't get...

Chris O'Neil (39:48.53)
Absolutely. No, and

Pete (39:56.264)
As a guy, it's like, oh, I'm not gonna stop and ask for directions, you know? Like, I'd rather get lost for days and die than ask for help. Like, fuck that. But, no, man. You know, it's funny, it never really hit home with me with that whole aspect of asking for help until I watched that movie Backdraft? With Kurt Russell? That whole...

Chris O'Neil (40:07.275)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (40:22.806)
Yep. Billy Baldwin.

Pete (40:25.404)
mantra that they had, yeah, if you go, I go. Like where they left nobody behind. That really kind of hit a chord with me more so than anything else in that whole movie. It's like no man behind. And it really did grasp and get a hold of me, but it was definitely something that still, I'm still working on accepting that, I guess,

Chris O'Neil (40:31.476)
Right.

Chris O'Neil (40:53.963)
Yeah.

Pete (40:55.708)
what you would do, you know? Like, there's no shame in not being able to do something on your own, or needing help, or anything like that. No fucking shame at all.

Chris O'Neil (41:05.674)
Well, and the interesting thing going back to that, and you're absolutely right, of course, but going back to the idea that your role was just embedded in the societal norms, and all you had to do is plug into that role. It was easier to not have to ask for help, because you weren't supposed to. And granted, you know, there are plenty of people that were just denying the reality to keep up appearances.

So it seemed like people didn't need as much help, right? Which obviously isn't true. But the when all of your questions were answered in the sense of like, what am I supposed to do is, as a man in my family? Well, you're supposed to do this? Okay, I'll just do that. And it was, you know, the kids had their role, the men and women had their role, authority figures had their role, that everything was well defined. Right? And

that didn't make it the right way to go about it. It just made you question it less because you had all the information you needed. And I think now so much of that has changed that the mentality of I don't need to ask for help is still there, but the reasons to ask for help have changed, you know? And the awareness we have of what not asking for help creates in your life, your mentality, your mental health, you know?

all of that stuff, like your coping mechanisms. It was like, how normal is it when you see anyone in an office just pouring a fricking whiskey at noon having a business meeting, right? That's just, oh yeah, that's just what you do. Who the fuck drinks? Like, if you got four meetings a day, you're fucking hammered. And, you know, how productive are you gonna be? You know, it's just.

That's not reality. I mean, granted, there are plenty of alcoholics making their way through the workforce, but that's a different situation. But that idea that this is just normal to have a drink multiple, perhaps, in the middle of the day, because it's just what you do, you know? But that whole, how things have changed, what?

Pete (43:30.817)
Nothing.

Chris O'Neil (43:32.31)
Yeah, I thought there was a...

Pete (43:33.364)
You lost me. You switched over and you were like, drinking in the middle of the day. It was like, all of a sudden we're critiquing mad men. I don't know what the fuck just happened.

Chris O'Neil (43:43.165)
No, well, it's the idea that this is just...

Pete (43:46.172)
I hear Jon Hamm has quite the penis. That's a rumor that's going around Hollywood.

Chris O'Neil (43:49.628)
Oh, well, I didn't hear that. Good to know.

Chris O'Neil (43:55.862)
No, it was I'm acknowledging the fact that it's just what you would do. You didn't question it. It's a normal thing. I think there was a stand up who talked about it once it's like, dude, if I had like four whiskies in the middle of the day, I'd be done. And there are guys that go in there and do that every single day. Like, how is that? How are they functioning? My point was

You're just following along with the norms and the norms have changed. But the mentality behind the norms doesn't seem to have changed. So we as men are still subject to that mentality. It's drilled into us, you know, all the way back to boys don't cry and suck it up. And, you know, you got to do everything on your own. You can't ask for help. All that bullshit. It comes from that need to show how much of a man you are.

instead of be how much of a man you are. Right, so what is the benefit of doing that? It's that other people think of you a certain way. It's not that it benefits your life, it's that it benefits your social status. And I think that's a big thing that's also changed, is the acknowledgement that what people think of you is not as important as your own mental, physical, and emotional health. And I think so many more men are coming up, coming to that awareness.

and jumping on board. You know, I certainly am there. But yet I still have these tendencies where I feel I need to do this thing to stay productive, keeping myself exhausted, when really I would benefit from letting that go and meditating a bit, you know, doing something that's actually gonna benefit me instead of getting to this arbitrary place that I'm supposed to get to.

Pete (45:51.56)
Yeah, well, I mean, you're like 40 fucking five, right? 43, 44, 45, 46, 47. All right, that was close. I'm not like here to guess your weight or your age or anything, I'm not a fucking circus sideshow. I'm just letting you know. So, so, yeah, it's gonna be hard to break that because you're 44 years into it. So, I mean, I wouldn't be too fucking hurt over the fact that you're not.

Chris O'Neil (45:55.618)
44.

Chris O'Neil (46:04.394)
That's what you just did though. Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (46:16.277)
Oh yeah.

Pete (46:19.628)
dealing with it as well as you think you should, because old dog, new tricks, motherfucker. The learning curve is fuckin'.

Chris O'Neil (46:23.466)
Well, but there's a difference. Yeah, sure. But there's a difference between. But there is a difference between Oh, well, you just can't change that. And my life would be better if I did change that. So I'm, you know,

Pete (46:35.368)
I didn't say you can't, I'm just saying you are going to have to work at it more. Because you have all these muscle memories. It's like, it's like, oh I've been writing with my fucking right hand for like my entire life and then I go and I break it and I have to learn to fucking write with my left. There's a fucking curve man, you're not gonna be good right out the gate, you just have to work at it. You know?

Chris O'Neil (46:40.962)
Oh yeah, of course. Of course.

Chris O'Neil (46:58.422)
No, and that's the point. That's why we're having the conversation, that we need to work on these things in order to have a better life. Because it's that whole mentality of previous generations saying you just have to work harder. No one wants to work. Like, dude, that's not what it is. You can't keep doing things the way you used to do them when those things are not giving you the results they used to. Right?

Pete (47:02.85)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (47:28.574)
And I think that's a big part of the exhaustion is we're trying to do more of what doesn't work, because that's what always did work. Instead of changing how we're doing things and what we're doing for the reasons we need to. It's just, well, let's just buckle down and do what we've been doing longer, harder and more.

Pete (47:52.888)
Hmm. Yeah, no, I get it. So, I think on that note, we should start, we should wrap up the episode, but we're gonna throw this out at you guys, the ones that are listening.

Chris O'Neil (47:54.294)
You know?

Pete (48:08.228)
comment on our Facebook feed, comment on our TikTok videos, start a conversation with us. We would love to hear how you cope with the exhaustion, how you deal with your day-to-day life, the things that you do to find balance. Let us know. We're on Facebook. Dad's unfucking filtered. Well, not unfucking filtered. We're dad's unfiltered. We're dad's unfiltered at TikTok.

We have an email, twodadsunfiltered at gmail.com. If you're into that whole X or Twitter, if you're Stephen King, we're twodadsunfiltered there as well.

Chris O'Neil (48:35.926)
We do. We do have that email.

hahahaha

Pete (48:43.192)
There's a whole big thing about Stephen King and Elon Musk is like, he refuses. And he's like, Elon Musk is like, why are you dead naming it? I'm like, he's not dead naming shit. Why did you call it a letter?

Chris O'Neil (48:45.238)
He just won't call it X.

Chris O'Neil (48:51.606)
AHAHAHAHAHA

Chris O'Neil (48:55.91)
Oh, that's funny.

Pete (48:56.468)
It's fucking funny to watch like the world's richest man act like the biggest fucking crybaby in the world. He is such a little bitch.

Chris O'Neil (49:06.827)
That's a topic for another day.

Pete (49:06.988)
He really is. But anyway, guys, drop us a fucking line. Let us know. How do you guys deal with this sort of stuff? Moms, too. Anybody that's listening.

Chris O'Neil (49:10.413)
Yeah.

Chris O'Neil (49:16.078)
And yes, please, please. And we gotta remember that, why are we doing the things that we're doing? It's so important to pause and reconnect with ourselves primarily, but with the people around us for that reason, because all of the stuff we're supposed to, or all the stuff we're doing is supposedly for the benefit of us and the people we love, right? So.

being able to reprioritize those things. We gotta make money, we gotta, of course, we gotta take care of our families. But good God, man, just slapping a paycheck on the table isn't what it used to be, you know? So we gotta, well, no, but it was perceived differently, so we gotta, we really gotta help each other perpetuate and keep these conversations going, come up with better ideas.

Pete (50:00.64)
Not that it ever was much of anything back then. Ha ha ha.

Chris O'Neil (50:14.142)
help each other implement these things so that we can have a better time and not be so exhausted.

Pete (50:24.152)
Damn straight. Don't forget guys, Facebook, Dad's Unfiltered Podcast.

Chris O'Neil (50:30.594)
Do it.

Pete (50:32.96)
We also have the TikTok. I post all the videos lately. Chris will maybe one day.

Chris O'Neil (50:35.61)
the tic tocs Yes. One day I'll get there when I don't have a when I don't have a nine month old taking most of my energy and focus. But yeah, I'm looking forward to being able to do that more.

Pete (50:40.396)
Right now I have to be the face of it all.

Pete (50:54.604)
Well guys, have a great week and I hope it's maybe less exhausting than previous weeks. Woo!

Chris O'Neil (50:58.722)
Do that.

Chris O'Neil (51:06.822)
Oh, and announcement, announcement coming next week for next week's episode and every subsequent episode after that. For those avid listeners of yours, of your, what? For those of you who are avid listeners, you might've heard me mention it in the previous episode, but I will be including some exercises and some tips at the end of every episode moving forward that are actionable things, things that you can do.

like here, like we're talking about, what can you do to be less exhausted? What can you do to improve your emotional intelligence, your self-awareness, all of those things to help you live a better life for you and your family? So I will be including a little tip or a trick or an exercise or something like that at the end of every episode starting next episode.

Pete (51:56.072)
Excellent. All right, guys. See you next week.