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Unlock the Future of Superheroes: Why Modern Takes Are Reshaping Our Favorite Characters

What if the next evolution of Superman, Supergirl, and other iconic heroes is all about deeper stories, realistic struggles, and a fresh perspective—rather than just CGI and objectification? This episode dives into the transformative reimaginings shaping today's superhero landscape, blending nostalgia with authenticity to reflect modern values.

You’ll discover why the latest iteration of Supergirl isn’t just a pretty face—she’s a nuanced character grappling with trauma, responsibility, and identity. We break down how filmmakers like James Gunn are reintroducing superheroes with a focus on storytelling over spectacle, emphasizing character growth and societal relevance. From the nuances that make Christopher Reeve’s Superman the gold standard to the critique of superficial comic book portrayals, we explore what really makes a hero timeless.

We break down:

• The shift from spectacle to substance in superhero movies, and why it matters.
• How Hollywood’s approach to female characters is maturing beyond objectification toward genuine representation.
• The evolution of Superman’s morality from American propaganda to a global symbol of integrity.
• The significance of reinterpretations like Red Sun Superman, Brightburn, and the new Supergirl to keep these stories fresh and relevant.
• Why the best characters adapt but never stray too far from their core essence—Clark Kent’s duality, Superman’s morality, and Supergirl’s resilience.

Why does all this matter? Because it signals a new era where superheroes mirror real-world struggles, embody diverse perspectives, and encourage us to reflect on our own humanity. This isn’t just entertainment—it's cultural evolution in motion, offering lessons on morality, resilience, and identity.

Whether you’re a die-hard comic fan, a casual viewer, or just curious about how superhero stories are shifting in the current climate, this episode offers vital insights into the future of your favorite heroes. Join us to understand why these changes aren’t just superficial—they’re revolutionary.

Perfect for fans of storytelling, comic book history, and cultural critique. If you believe superheroes are more than just capes and powers—this episode is your guide to what’s next.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Welcome back, guys. It's been a long while since Dad's Unfiltered has has hit the proverbial airwaves. Indeed. Or internets. Interwebs. Interwebs. Yeah, it's been been a bit and bit. So welcome back to Dad's Unfiltered. If you're watching the video, which I think we have, I have a backdrop. It's not even green screen. It's not AI. It is a physical prop. Just like they used to do in the movies when we were kids. Remember that, Chris? When they would like make miniatures of things?

SPEAKER_04 1:09

I do. Yeah. I just just watched a video recently about the 78 Superman. How they made him how they made Clark race a train with analog technology. But yeah, see, I got mine. I got my dad's unfiltered poster right behind me. And I is it is it backwards to you? It's blurry, so it isn't blurry. Cool. Son of a bitch. Anyway. Yeah, I I'm I'm slowly but surely getting all my Superman stuff dressed in the uh in the background. So I actually have a nice. I mean, I know you have the backdrop, but uh I don't have such a thing. So I'm trying to fill out the the behind me space with with cool things.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

I felt like I got it like cheap too. It was probably printed in some sweatshop. Because I've noticed that you can't do anything right. It's either made by AI or made by children in some foreign land. So either way, I'm fucked. But um Kathy Lee Gifford would probably be proud because this was I think screen printed in some foreign country like Florida.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Some foreign country like Florida.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:32

Those who've been there probably know what I'm talking about. Yes, yes, indeed. Um yeah, it is funny how just just no, really. I I uh never mind. It's just all the shit. I I'm I'm laughing because the amount of crap that Pete and I have been through over the last little bit. Um we we were not MIA for no reason. You know, there's shit happening in in both of our lives. Um but you know, uh as uh as we try to relay to everyone listening, we're uh we're doing our best to pull this shit together. And um as you know, we've we've done this what? This is like this is year four, man.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

It is, yeah. Although uh there'd be no online evidence to support that because uh we lapsed in paying our bill, and uh Buzzsprout was like, fuck you, we're taking it away. Yeah, by the way, I did I did re-up that so Oh yeah, I know, but they still took away all of our back episodes, like three years worth of fucking episodes are gone. Although I think I have them uh backed up on on a uh on a hard drive somewhere. And that's the key, is some Well yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:06

The other thing is uh we now that I've I've re-upped our account, yeah, it it is what it is. We we let it lapse because we other things happen. We stopped stopped recording, and we let's be honest, uh kind of forgot about it. And the payment lapsed, and uh they only keep your recordings if you're not paying them for 90 days. So we lost a huge chunk of what we already recorded. And I I've I feel like I've I've sort of come to grips with that in the sense that it's like, okay, well, you know, that was those a lot of those were our early attempts, and and they were some were good, some were bad, and challenged. And uh the only regret I have about losing that stuff is is the being able to see the progression of where we started and where we are, you know?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Like our flight log.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Captain's logs, dad eight.

SPEAKER_03 5:11

Yeah. I think I actually point one.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Was the last episode that we did about uh the different Supermen? Was that the last thing that we did? Yeah, I think it is. Oh, well. So the that means the last episode we recorded was on uh Superman Day or for Superman Day. Yes. That was uh the fuck was that? It was uh in some some month that began with a letter.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

It was a number of weeks ago. Yeah. Hey you, you with the head. Yeah. I could generally just describe everything that way. Um what is interesting though is um despite losing a lot of material, I found myself surprisingly not all that bent out of shape about it. Yeah, I think that's a good thing. Um I was I was I was bummed. But it was also like yeah, kinda. I mean, because we, you know, truth be told, uh as the name suggests, dad's unfiltered. We're we're we're trying to do this in a very transparent way, so that everyone can identify with what we're doing. Um but truth be told, and Pete just pointed this out to me the uh the other day, um you know, I have a I have a perfectionist streak in me. I have a lot of shit. I have a lot of shit that I try to do a certain way, and and I realized that so much of my challenge with this podcast was feeling a need to show up in a certain way, feeling a need to be more of a I don't know, more of a presence, more of a um uh really trying hard to create a level of value for anyone who would come and listen. Right. And in unfortunately, that uh also comes across there's a little anxiety there, it's like are we doing it right? And da da da da. And I appreciate see this is why Pete is one of my oldest friends, because he can say this shit to me, and I I'm like, oh yeah, I d I don't take it as an insult, it's it's an acknowledgement.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

And I also put up with your shit. That's really weird.

SPEAKER_05 7:50

Yeah, well, I put up with yours too.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

So you know I I just don't bitch about it as much as you do because I personally bitch about you know it directly to you, it's more to others.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

I like to do it, you know, when you're not looking. Indeed.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Indeed.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

It's a pain in the ass. What?

SPEAKER_01 8:11

What a fuck what a fucking bitch. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:14

I mean, I love you, Chris.

SPEAKER_04 8:16

Yeah, yeah. No, but really, uh, so in the in in light of the dad's unfiltered uh moniker that we have so lovingly called our podcast, um You were inadvertently filtering yourself. Yes, yes, I'm acknowledging the fact that I was uh, you know, uh I come from a performance background and and you know coming out to LA in order to dig into the industry and all that like uh all that shit stuck with me. And I what's so funny is um and truth be told, Pete and I were talking, was it yesterday or e or the day before? It was it was either one or the other. And we were having a really good conversation about stuff that just life stuff, and we both were like, fuck man, we should have had this conversation on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

That was the day that I I texted you because I wanted validation for the comic book wall that I created. That's correct. I sent you the picture 20 minutes ago. Why would you do that?

SPEAKER_04 9:21

Because we're on different coasts, yeah. Because we're on different coasts. Obviously, there's a three-hour uh time lag. And uh he texted me. He's like, Did you see? Did you see? Huh? Did you see? Uh come on, man, I need validation.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Yeah, well, no, I didn't text. I called. I just said, fuck it. I saw that you had turned. Oh, I know. But you did text as well. The wall had come down. When I saw that the notifications are no longer silenced, I'm like, okay, the gate is open. Here we go. Yep. Now flooded with text messages. Yeah, because then you see notifications are silenced. Like, ah shit.

SPEAKER_04 10:00

Because of course, um, being three hours difference, noon to him is 9 a.m. to me. And and especially on a on a weekend, that it's like on the nights where I have shows and I have long drives home.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Because he's like the only one that's awake, and I'm like, hey buddy, I need you to make sure I don't die. Keep me entertained.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

I can honestly say too. I I had this barrage of of of Pete voicemails, and I've actually saved some just for posterity. Uh button's later. Um, but it's it's one of those where it's like you'll call, and if I don't answer, you'll leave a voicemail like, yeah, I figured you wouldn't listen. I figured you wouldn't pick up, but uh I'm driving home, and if you want to call, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Like it's it's funny. There's some down sometimes I'll leave my voicemails uh in like uh my signature Eeyore tone. Uh the uh that that's okay. It'll just fall off again tomorrow. And then there's some that I'm like a little I'm slightly unhinged, and then there's some where I'm normal. You never know what Pete you're gonna get when you fucking listen to your voicemail.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

But then sometimes you just you just straight stoned Pete.

SPEAKER_02 11:26

Yeah, well Hey man. I just would like to point out though, Chris, that uh the majority of that is like the the baseline. True enough. The other ones are just layers upon uh the foundation that I have built.

SPEAKER_04 11:43

Because as we all know, dear listeners, Pete is almost always stoned.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Almost always. Almost always. Probably right now, too.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Probably. So um the last episode that we talked about was Superman. We talked about our favorite Supermen. Uh and since that time, these guys right here.

SPEAKER_04 12:09

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

And since that time, uh Supergirl came out. It did. And caused quite the kerfuffle. Supergirl in the new DCU uh universe. Well, but James Gunn didn't direct it. I don't remember who the director was, and my microphone is right over my keyboard, so I can't type to search anything. Oh. Like I can't type.

SPEAKER_04 12:31

Yeah, no, I I didn't recog I didn't even recognize the director's name when I saw it. In fact, I'm gonna look it up right now. Actually, let's do it on the phone so I don't ruin the screen.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

I use my phone as the camera. Yes, yes. Well, here we go.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

Uh Supergirl di rector. Here we go. Craig Gillespie. Craig Gillespie. There it is.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

I used my awkward type.

SPEAKER_04 13:04

I have no idea who Craig Gillespie or or what Craig Gillespie has done.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure myself. Um, we can look it up. I I don't think he did.

SPEAKER_04 13:19

Oh, he's Australian.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

Oh. Fantastic, mate.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Alright.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Alright, so he did hold on, hold on. Before you uh before we go into this, he did Supergirl, he did Cruella in 2021 with uh Emma.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

What's her face? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

He did I Tanya with Margot Robbie. And he did Lars in the Real Girl.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

I thought that was a great the remake of uh Fright Night, it looks like.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

Yeah, Fright Knight, and he did the finest hours with uh Chris Pine. So he's done some stuff. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Oh, he also directed a Beyoncé video, so that's you know, that's good. Well, pray continue, sir, because uh Oh, and he did that. Did you watch that the Pam and Tommy that Seth Seth Rogan did about how they distributed how they got hold of the porn and Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee back in the day? Did you ever see that back in the day? Oh, I did, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

I mean it was a horny I was a horny 20-something. Of course I watched it.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

I didn't think that Tommy Lee would have a bigger dick than he actually was. That was the weirdest thing. Um but yeah, it was yeah, I couldn't miss it. Usually guys who brag about their dick size don't have that dick size, and he did? No, it's not like he bragged about it, but he was just like, as a person, a total dick bag. So you figure that he would just have little dick energies with little dick, but no. Like probably stepped on it a couple of times in that video. You know.

SPEAKER_04 15:10

Doesn't that just sting like a bitch? Huh?

SPEAKER_02 15:13

In case you guys have never seen it, I would just like to say at one point or another, you kind of feel bad for Pamela Anderson.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

You're just like that poor girl.

unknown 15:22

It's true.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

There is such a thing as too big, fellas.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

There really is. Right. I mean, not that we're speaking from experience. I'm still kind of trying to figure out where it might have gone.

unknown 15:32

Nope.

SPEAKER_04 15:33

I I am in the Goldilocks zone. I am just right.

SPEAKER_02 15:39

And that's what she keeps telling you. Um But yeah, no, we uh we stepped out uh separately. I went to a fan showing of uh of Supergirl uh the Wednesday before the release. So I was able to get a little bit of a little bit of a. Yeah, I'm kinda asked out on Spider-Man, though. I was hoping to get that, but the whole fucking opening weekend is sold fucking tits out.

SPEAKER_04 16:06

Boom.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

And I live in kind of a shitty town with a shitty movie theater, and it's fucking all sold out. It's fucking shitty. Yet, you know what's weird though is you know, people are saying that super m uh superhero movies are dead. Like, it's not like their their time has come, they're over. Uh, and yet Spider-Man is like balls out. Well, just like he Oh, sorry, go ahead, finish. Oh, I was gonna say, it's it's funny because um I I've recently got back into collecting comic books, and uh if there's anyone that comic that's kind of uh comic recession proof, it is fucking Spider-Man. He is like he is like solid gold as far as like comic book characters.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

That's what I was gonna say, so I'm glad I stopped myself. But yeah. Yeah, because you were the one who told me that, because you are getting back into comic collecting and you're starting to get the knowledge back and uh trying to just yeah, but uh point is you're in it enough that you're relearning or or learning some new stuff that you know the average person just doesn't know. Um but yeah, I I do find it so interesting that Spider-Man specifically and it it's kind of like a as just a side note, because I know we're talking about Supergirl, but as a side note, Spider-Man, the through line for Spider-Man has always been slightly skewed outside of everything else, right? Because technically it's a Marvel uh IP, but Sony has had the rights to it for years. Yeah. And you know, they've made deals and all that stuff, especially with the Avengers and you know the the whole Marvel situation, but the fact that it's a separate property and it has to be negotiated and all that yeah, totally different.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Yeah, the same with Venom. Uh I think even the Fantastic Four, there was there was something, uh, and that's why their movies sucked. Um because I mean to capitalize and Well, no, it it's it's weird. It's like I can't say that they sucked, but they just they it's like there's plenty of these movies. Yeah, but they hit the tree, you know? They uh sure some of them will do like they'll they'll put hit you with nostalgia like Deadpool and Wolverine. It was a it was a good movie. I mean, obviously, uh it it's it's similar in many ways to a porno where you're not paying attention to the plot. Because that it's really about the action and and you're really just getting your your your groove on. Right, but it's true, you know, you're just there for that you know, everyone like hanging out. When when um when he was in the fucking brown and tan finally, you know, like Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:04

And then he followed the fan clause and the Hulk was in the reflection of the claws. Yeah, like everyone lost their shit with all that stuff. The the whole montage of going to different universes and and it was great, but I it definitely is not you're not there for the plot at all. No, no, well, and that's the thing, is like it was enough of a plot though that it carry it to a beginning and middle and an end. But at the same time, like I I'm not a big enough comic book fan to know like was Xavier's sister a comic book.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

I'm not entirely sure. I think in like a what if kind of situation, I don't I've never really been a big Marvel guy. So um Marvel's a little out of my spec. I've always been uh because I'm a Red Sox fan and I just love disappointment, I've always been a fan of DC. Uh because they can never seem to get shit right on uh on film. I I don't understand it for years. Like they kept like you got Chris Reeve, right? And beautiful absolutely stuck.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Beautiful. Just and and Richard Donner and uh like I just came across some of his old shit in the sense of um he had a um a lifetime achievement like ceremony. I actually got to go to that. I got to shake his hand, I got to I got to say hi to him. Like I got to meet Richard Donner before he died, and uh the celebration of everything he did, and you know and like that dude, and and you can see in the behind-the-scenes stuff in all the Superman um like the Superman box set where they give you every behind the scenes thing that's existed. I no longer have a DVD player, but I got that box set. I know, right? I know. Me too. Um, but it it's like he just got it. He just really got it. Understand for sure. Ever yeah, and ever since then, people have been trying to figure out what he figured out. And I think James Gunn What's interesting is that if what James Gunn figured out happened around the time of when Donner was doing it, it would be different. Because it's a different generation, a different time, uh, you know, like but at the same time uh and I uh tell me if you disagree, but I think James Gunn brought it back to the essence of the comic book character as a reflection of the current times. And Donner did the same thing. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

They put him uh they kept uh well uh you know, I guess the simpler way is they they knew their source material.

SPEAKER_05 22:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

They had a working knowledge, it wasn't just someone saying, Yeah, I'm I'm familiar with uh Hulk. Yeah. Uh Bill Banner, you say? Yeah, I can direct that. You know, that sort of thing. You know, where it's like they just want the job. Where I feel like Donna really had a passion about him, I think, uh, with movies and stuff. I mean, even though, like, you hear the interviews and like how miserable he was during Goonies, I mean, he still made such a great fucking movie.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

Hell yeah. You know the the trouble with the Solkines and all that. Yeah, it was like he was in Shitzville, but he still pushed out that fucking movie.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Even you know, I gotta say, even watching the Donner cut of Superman 2, I I think is far superior than watching the the the one that they ended up releasing, you know? Well, yeah It's like and I'm gonna this is where the Snyder guys will like thank me. It's like watching the Justice League that was done by Wheeden and then the Justice League Snyder Justice League, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

And I will give it to the superior superior version. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

You know what's weird though is um after Wheedon got called out and stuff for being like a total dick, you know, um I never noticed um how he subjectified women so much. Like, holy shit. The biggest glaring example of how terrible he could be to women was Firefly. The way that he treated uh whatever her name is, uh Deadpool's girlfriend. Um I don't I don't remember. I can't think of her name.

SPEAKER_04 23:57

Because I never watched Firefly. I still haven't seen it.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Yeah, you know, for what it is, it's it's decent, but like the dialogue and the way that um Nathan's character uh talks to her is just like so demeaning at times and it's just terrible. And I'm like, wow, this guy's a prick. I'm afraid to go back and watch Buffy. I'll be fucking honest with you. I'm willing to bet that's problematic as fuck.

SPEAKER_04 24:23

Like basic, like foundational level misogyny, just interwoven in shit. Uh is that what it is?

SPEAKER_02 24:31

Marissa Barr uh something or other?

SPEAKER_04 24:33

Yeah, Marissa, I believe something like that.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Um But she her character is uh for all intents and purposes a prostitute. Right, right. But the way that he didn't feel his character.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

Um Go ahead and try to. Yeah, yeah. Morena uh Bakarin or Baccharin. Okay, yeah. That's her name.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yeah, I mean it just it seemed I'm I'm hoping that with the the animated series that they're doing that they kind of correct that. I don't want them to overcorrect it, but I want them to make it, you know, not not so terrible at all.

SPEAKER_04 25:15

Well, and I I I mean, and not for nothing, but I feel like uh regardless of the rest of the cast, which I don't know as well, obviously, because I hadn't I still haven't seen that series, but um Alan Tudik and and uh Nathan Filion are like uh not only powerhouses in the industry, but uh like they really in and of themselves I feel like as people wouldn't allow that now. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 25:50

No, I don't think so either. I you know, and honestly, you know, you look back at all this stuff, and yeah, sure, it may have been like the norm, uh, the way that people were. Right. Uh maybe it was just swept under. And and I'm willing to bet that early on in their careers, like, you know, it's like whatever people tell me to say, I'm gonna say it, you know. And I get it. I get it, because it's a fucking cutthroat industry, and you know, we don't know some of the things that people have done to get or keep or do any kind of work. So yeah, I'm not slighting the actors at all for the written word that they've performed, you know. And I guess, you know, and especially with somebody like Josh Whedon, who has such a uh a prof a prolific career, yeah, you know, it would be probably, I'm sure, hard for uh a newer actor to be like. So I was thinking here on page 32, uh maybe, you know.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's always hard for the new people to come in and and you know uh uh buck the current type of thing. Yeah. Um but I uh something that I actually I I like about where we are now is just as far as excuse me, just as far as people's willingness and ability to kind of push back against certain bullshit that was just oh well, what can you do? This is the industry, there's nothing we can do about it, da-da-da-da-da. We just have to accept. Right, right. There there feels like it feels like there's so much more pushback because societally things are less acceptable, you know?

SPEAKER_02 27:40

And it's it's weird too. Another glaring example of that is when you go back and you watch the Justice League theatrical cut and then the Snyder cut, like how many gratuitous shots of Gail Godot's ass are in the Wheeden cut. And it's it's just weird, like the angles, like it's like that's really the way that you chose that, huh? Like, all right. And even I feel like, and I don't know if there's like any kind of element to it, but I also feel like Cyborg got slighted a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 28:11

Oh, he totally did. Well, uh his entire backstory was removed. Like and and granted, I acknowledge the fact that the Snyder cut was like five fucking hours long.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

Right. Well, they were they were trying to do way too much. Like they should have had a separate cyborg movie. Or I honestly like the map that they have going on now where it's some TV, some movies, and it all ties into one universe.

SPEAKER_04 28:37

I will say though, I I would not have been opposed to uh Justice League Part 1 and a Justice League Part 2, similar to um you know how Marvel did uh Infinity War in Endgame.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:51

I think that would have worked out great. And Snyder's cut and his take would have fit grate into that because it was long enough that it was it was too long to sit through in the theater. Yeah. Um but plenty like watch party style, right? Like we'll watch this one and then we'll watch this one. And uh and and setting them up as two separate films that you know uh to be continued would have been cool. Everyone would have hated it, but they would have loved to hate it, you know what I mean? Like, oh fuck yeah. Fuck I can't wait for the rest of it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

That's all that they seem to do now is hate everything, and it seems like they fucking everybody loves to do that shit. There is that, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 29:39

But yeah, and it's uh DC, unfortunately, has focused way more on Simon Sinek said something a while ago. You know who Simon Sinek is? I've definitely talked about him on the podcast before. He's a author and a speaker. He he's really big into understanding modern uh capitalism and um like how business should be run. Right. Basically, like the infinite game and the finite game, right? And most companies are working through the finite game where short-term profits that screw us over in the long term, right? So he's trying to bring things back to the way they used to be, where it was competitive and um appropriate to for everybody, not just the elites, right? Um but uh he had talked about this whole thing of of um you know before it was all profit-based, it was what can we do to get people on board with what we're doing. And in other words, it wasn't all about money. It was like, how can we tell a great story so people pay for it and we make a lot of money? And what ended up happening is it it just got rid of the how can people enjoy it, and it's now just how can we make a lot of money, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Right, and so they they took that cue from Nolan's Batman of being more gritty and realistic, and for some of those characters it would work like Batman, right? But then there's others that it would not, right?

SPEAKER_04 31:37

And it's it's uh the irony I always find in these pursuits of profit is if you just focus on the material and giving people the best iteration, like no one's you know, there's always gonna be people who aren't gonna be happy with some version of it. Oh god, don't understand. But if you can just provide a version of it that speaks to a a portion of the fandom, then you're fine. You know, and and if this is the problem in our capitalistic like post frickin' uh what's what's the word? Uh I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

There's so many words to describe it.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

Late stage capitalism, that's what it's called. Late stage capitalism, where it it's all about money and not about any sort of value or substance that you're paying for. Right? So it's how can we make our money back as quickly as possible versus how can we make our money back as quickly as possible by giving the fans something they'd be interested in and stretch that time out over a series of years so we can build something that people come along with. Right. Right. And um of course, the the issue is everyone trying to get everything right now. So it's fuck ten years from now, how can we make the two billion dollar investment that we just did? Yeah, how can we make that back this year? Yeah. And they're freaking shooting themselves in the feet, you know? And it's it's like, okay, do you want to make that amount of money back? Or do you want to alienate the people who are gonna pay you for that investment? Right. And just reap whatever you can get in the moment.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

And it's just it's like, Jesus. It's tough though, with the these comic book shit, because it's it there is like a very clear division uh with a lot of DC fans. Like it's like the North and the South. It's like Snyderverse and then everybody else. And I'm like, yeah, and I've said it before, I never thought that the Snyderverse was terrible. No, I never do either. It's not my favorite interpretation of characters.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

I and I am a huge fan of reinterpretations of characters. Yep. Because I I think there's something to be said about um not being Dean Kane. Oh God, please.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Any chance I get to slight that guy.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

Yeah, I know. Hold on a second. I have uh I have a little visitor here. Uh I am doing my podcast with Pete. Because it didn't work yesterday. And hey, um, I'm gonna finish up doing this, and then we can hang out and play, okay? Yes, baby.

unknown 35:03

I will be right back, and you can have that I'm gonna go.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

Oh, good. Thank you so much. I'll be right back. And you talk to Pete while I'm gone. It's like, oh, okay. That was the intention.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yes. And as they walk away, you lock the door.

SPEAKER_04 35:25

Oh shit. Yeah, no, and and the big thing being like, I swear, man, like uh all the Oh oh you're back. What are you back about? Goody. You want you want some cheese? Can you go ask your mom, please? And can you shut the door? Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

I'd like to remind you that there's a whole ass other adult in this house.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

But I want to bother you. You are doing something. Yes, because you're busy.

SPEAKER_04 36:03

Um, god damn it. What was I saying? Snyder? What was I saying?

SPEAKER_02 36:09

Interpretations.

SPEAKER_04 36:10

Interpretations. Just I am a I'm a big fan of interpretations because I like the idea of exploring possibilities. Like um like a what if series, like they do with Marvel. Superman Red Sun. You know about that one, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:26

Yeah, he's a flashpoint. What about the flashpoint timeline? That's a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

And it's it's the it's the like the Red Sun is Superman what if he landed in Russia instead of the United States. What type of superhero would he become? And I thought it was a fantastic sign. Or yes, that's fantastic. And and that was never uh marketed as a Superman anything. It was a totally separate thing.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

But you fucking knew. Yes. And that was that was James Gunn, too. He fucking he had a hand in that shit. I actually didn't know that, really. Yeah, he I think he like produced it or some shit. Oh shit. Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_04 37:02

And it's it's the idea, like I I like departures from classic not only characters, but storylines. But I think you can stay there for a little while, but you still have to come back to the essence of the foundational character as a means of like because if you don't, then that character evolves and changes into those things and then becomes completely different. And I'm not saying that the evolution of like that shit happens all the time in history, how uh you know, certain ideas change and philosophies and things like that, but right as long as the essence of how it originally came about stays the same, then you can always go back and revisit and look and say, okay, here's what was different and here's how it evolved, and blah blah blah. Um but that was always the the benefit of Superman was he is not only an immigrant, uh he showed up, was taught uh all the best human values, and took his immigrant alien um essence, and overlaid the morality of his human teachers, right? So it it's what would happen right place, right time kind of deal. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. But and isn't that the point of of speaking up against the fact that immigrants there's nothing wrong with immigrants. Immigrants are just people trying to find a better life for themselves. That's all they are. And Superman being and I I love that aspect actually of um the original creators of Superman, how they both, you know, both Jewish men, sons of immigrants, who really wanted to kind of create something that allowed them to feel accepted in the society they were in. Like what what if we had this ability? And what what if we showed up this way and you know um so the reason Superman's been so ubiquitous is is not because he has strength and heat vision and you know, it's he is the person he is, despite the amount of power he has. The power he has has not corrupted him because he was raised a certain way. And the the whole point is, and obviously it started with America, and that was back in the day, but I love the fact that they evolved him to the world, right? He he's not um truth, justice, and the American way anymore. He's truth, justice, and um what is it? I think it's uh uh some version of like Savior for all or or or um Oh, it's uh a better tomorrow. That's what it is. Truth, justice, and a better tomorrow is is the slogan now, I think. But but again, he was he was a propaganda tool back in the day. To to say that America's way of life was better than the Nazi way of life. And at the time, that's appropriate, right? Because fuck, man, anything's better than the Nazi way of life. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

Obviously.

SPEAKER_04 40:53

But point being he has evolved with society. And I think uh uh kind of skewing toward our our talking point with Supergirl, that's what happened now. Where there is a new iteration of the character based on a comic. It's not like it's out of someone's ass somewhere. Like this is canon in the comics, where, hey, you know what? This is this is a a different take on the character. We're we're we're uh changing up the current iteration of Superman himself.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

I actually am looking to see what the new thing that he says is. I have the comic where they where they changed it. I just don't remember what happened.

SPEAKER_04 41:54

I believe it like I'll say it again. I think it's truth, justice, and a better tomorrow instead of truth, justice in the American way. I think that's what the change has been.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

But yeah, so you're well, you were saying a a a different iteration.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

Right, and it's not a a better or worse one, it's just different. And it's it's unique in the scope of the character for Supergirl. Because Supergirl was always the you know, kind of naive younger cousin, right? Uh, who was uh like almost like from a purity culture perspective, where she, you know, granted, over the years they they uh drew her in provocative ways, but in general, her demeanor and and her style and her like how she came across was she was the younger kind of protege of Clark, even though she was older originally, but then depending on the iteration, she got stuck in a time warp, like her ship uh uh you know was knocked out of its trajectory, and she went somewhere else and then remained in suspended animation, finally made it to Earth, but by that point uh Clark was already an adult and he was Superman, so when she uh came out of the pod, he was her elder. Yep. So it was the like and that's the struggle, is like I'm older than you, but now you're older than me, and my mission doesn't exist anymore, and I don't know what to do, and who am I, and you know, like those are legitimate questions for a deep, detailed character. Exactly. And I think the current iteration really takes that to another level in a good way. Where, and and you said this to me, and I totally agree. The reason uh people have such an issue about uh because the two biggest issues I hear about Supergirl are the villain sucked and they should have cast a different actress for Supergirl. Yeah, that's been the the two major complaints that I've heard. And what's interesting is number one, of course, anything drawn in comics is gonna be the extreme physically, right? Supergirl in the comics, regardless of how she's drawn, even back in the frickin' fifties when actually when did she first come out? Was it the forties or the fifties? It was in the forties. Do you remember?

SPEAKER_02 44:48

I can't find the passage in the thing, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:50

But it's it's uh you know, she could have been a frickin' underwear model. Um and that's the point.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

So I have her in the sixties, hold on a second.

SPEAKER_04 45:05

Yeah. Well, my my point about the sixties is what would been what would be considered tame to us now was very evocative in the sixties, you know? Yeah, there you go. But that's that's the point, right? Like like um of course I'm sure this was this was uh a big deal in the 60s because she had short hair, and God forbid a woman have short hair. Um but but like Millie Alcock, man, she's a shorter woman. Yeah. She's not the tall, lanky underwear model type. Uh she's not traditionally attractive in the sense of like uh what the status quo of society says is attractive. I think she's gorgeous. But like uh but that's the point, is it it's she's not she's not the epitome of what the status quo says supergirl should be. And that's why people have an issue with it. But I agree, uh I think, and I know you agree because we've had multiple conversations, she was not only yeah, she was not only a great supergirl, but she did everything the character in that iteration required. Yeah. And she did it well.

SPEAKER_02 46:42

Yeah, she um I I thought so for me, um, I went in it with the expectation that this movie was just meant to bring her into the fold. To get us up to speed, if you will, because uh when was the last time she was on the silver screen? 1984? Helen Slater?

SPEAKER_03 47:03

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 47:04

Like what it was. Sure, we've had what she do in the world of Superman to get where she is now. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Right. You know, and they haven't they've never really touched upon it. Um Carol Danvers, um, or whatever they called her in uh in this TV show. Supergirl series, yeah. Yeah. Um, she yeah, you you know, she had a lot of the qualities of Supergirl. Like there was she was a brunette, um obviously a lot of guys drooled over her kind of deal, and everyone still seems to think that she should have been the iteration on on the movies, you know, like like everyone wanted Grant Gustin to be fucking the flash. Like it's a different iteration.

SPEAKER_04 47:50

Uh I think that I thought Moses Benoit did great, but it was she this was a different iteration, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:01

And I felt like they stuck fairly well to the source material. Um I thought that Millie totally understood the assignment. And people bitching about the villain, it's weird because for the amount of people in the the comic book realm of things should know that you never, ever get the ultimate baddie right away. Like you gotta level up to that shit. You know, and all Krem was was to just progress the story along. It's something that moved it along while she took care of what was going on inside, like it progressed that story. Like nobody knew, I'm sure, about her uh backstory because honestly, the only backstory we've ever been brow beaten to death with has been fucking Clarks showing up on that fucking farm.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

I know you are so jaded for all the uh origin stories of Superman. Oh, it drives me nuts. But I will say uh the thing that was I think necessary with this iteration because of how Superman was. Like, Reeves Superman, like I I will I will compare every Superman to Christopher Reeve. It's just what's gonna happen. But the the difference now and I've I talked to you about this at some point, where Christopher Reeves Superman is very distinctly Clark Kent and Superman. They are very like they are two separate people and he plays it that way. And you can totally tell. Whereas, and you can totally tell. Yeah, yeah, like and people say, well, how the hell would you not expect this person like they look exactly the same? It's like, yeah, but do you see how they act, how they hold their body, how they speak, how they like of course you would like you're blown away by this person who can do these amazing things. Why would you ever expect it to be this other person?

SPEAKER_02 50:22

My my difficult thing believing, honestly, was not that like no one got that Clark Kent was Superman because of glasses. How the fuck did Lois Lane win a Pulitzer Prize and she couldn't even spell? I mean, what that's pretty good, yeah. The big question is like, oh, how did a guy hide by changing the way his hair parted uh with glasses?

SPEAKER_04 50:43

And yet you're like, How did Lois Lane get all these pulser without being able to smell? It's such a better question for sure. Ah, so good. Um how did she even get the job? What the fuck? Yeah, no shit, right? Uh tenacity, Pete. Tenacity. Yeah. Uh yeah, but uh but really the the whole thing of um James Gunn's Superman and and how uh uh David Cornsweat uh did the character, which I think he did a fantastic job, but it's not even close to the same as Christopher Reeve Superman. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 51:28

Yeah. Christopher Reeve, though, like someone posted online that who was an actor that you could say nailed a role that you could never see anybody else. And I've repeatedly answered that question with the same Christopher Reeve because very many have tried, and there have been very good Supermans, and there have been some that have been decent Clark Kent, but never the Twain shall meet in the same performance. It's the weirdest thing.

SPEAKER_04 51:57

He was the best of both. Absolutely. Absolutely. I I would say like and even Corinthsweat, I think he's a better Superman than a Clark in the sense of like Well, he didn't really get a whole lot of time as Clark either. But uh yeah, and and I don't want to go down that rabbit hole right now because we're talking about Supergirl, but at the same time, um just the fact that Cornsweat's Superman is Clark. Reeves Superman was Clark as the mask, Superman as the reality. But I feel like Cornsweat's Superman is Clark as the reality. He just puts on the suit when he uses his powers. And ironically enough, uh, because we all love our conversations about Dean Kane, because fuck that guy. Um, but he was the total opposite. He was um like because he had that line in the show. Superman is what I can do, Clark is who I am. Yeah. He was Clark even as Superman.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

I'd rather you use the Batman quote from Christian Bale. That's what I do that defines me, kind of deal. Never quote Dean Kane again if you could avoid it.

SPEAKER_04 53:24

Well, I'm quoting Dean Kane only because the uh Lois and Clark was very Clark centrist, which is why it's Lois and Clark, not Lois and Superman like the other movie with uh Tyler Hodgkin, right? Or did you know the other show?

SPEAKER_02 53:44

That the death of Superman came out of the fact that they wanted DC to tie in the wedding of Clark and Lois to the TV show, and they were like, fuck that. So they kill Supergirl. Oh, really? So they killed him? Pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:59

That's so good. I don't think I knew that. Um but yeah, I know, we're getting off track. So I will say, going back to Supergirl.

unknown 54:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:11

Because you and I had this, you and I had this conversation multiple times. This assumption that that type of female character can't carry a movie is just bullshit. And it might not be you know, the the iteration of it might not land, but it's not for lack of effort from the female lead. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 54:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:41

Yeah, it's it's totally on the writing. You know, I mean, I like I said, I didn't think Craig Gillespie did a bad job directing either. Um I I don't think and actually from what I've read in interviews, I don't think the the the lady or the person that wrote the screenplay fully grasped the source material because they she did change the ending. Right. Uh in the in the Woman of Tomorrow, she never kills crap.

SPEAKER_04 55:06

She never killed it. Yeah. Yeah. Spoiler alert. Sorry, we already said it, but sorry.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Yeah, I mean I I figure at this point people at uh that have gone to see it have gone to see it, and the other people are gonna wait for they're gonna wait for it to be on on video and oh fuck them. Um yeah. That's that's how it goes. Um the other thing that I I also like is where she was able to stay on Krypton longer. Well a portion of Krypton. Right, a portion, a chunk. Yeah, I like how they like make it like um Clark was born, and then Jureau was like, You gotta get the fuck out of here, and sent him on a capsule, and then um Zorel and his and his wife are like irresponsibly like, oh, the whole planet is blowing up, but let's have a baby. So they uh they welcome her in. And and honestly, I also like the fact that they don't say it, but there are plenty of hints to the fact that Kara is more powerful than Clark. And it's not because of like that whole male-female dynamic, it's not like you know, well, because he's a guy, he's gotta be tougher.

SPEAKER_04 56:20

Um because she lived on Krypton for so much longer, her cells are denser, and she also has that whole like rage that Clark because he never knew and lost his so it and and that is where I find this iteration so much more intriguing because the whole point of doing it this way is acknowledging like the actual trauma involved in being old enough to comprehend all the shit that happened. Because Clark like he had to learn about it after.

SPEAKER_02 56:57

I think that Laura Vandervoot uh also kind of captured that pretty decently in Smallville for the little time that she was on there. She had a little bit of angsty attitude, uh mean girl kind of thing going on for her, too. For sure. Um but yeah, um Melissa Benoit and I mean obviously uh Helen Slater is kind of like the epitome. She she Helen Slater really does bring it to the most overall uh comic book accurate supergirl at that time. She really specifically at that time, for sure. Well, the the look, and I mean, she was definitely more this supergirl than any of the other ones.

SPEAKER_04 57:41

For sure. And and that's and and and to be honest, during that time that was the most beneficial. It was like she was just as bright and blue as Clark was. And it matched the Christopher Reeve Superman. Right. Because it came out in '84, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:59

Yeah. No, and it and that's 100% true. And and I think the irony of all of these people having issue with and and hey, uh, I'm not gonna say just because it was a supergirl movie it was good. I thought, like, there there certainly were things that could have been better. Oh, but yeah. Overall. Any movie you leave going. No, but just just like you said, this was not it almost wasn't even a standalone movie. It was just, hey, this is what Supergirl was doing while all the Superman stuff was happening, and this is why she is the way she is. Now we're gonna get into the Superman story that has Supergirl in it. That feels like and and uh the runtime was even short. It was only like an hour forty minutes. It wasn't even Yeah, it was it was quite quick. Yeah, so it really does feel like a side quest type movie, which is I think what they were going for.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Yeah, and it and it brings in uh it brings her into the fold, it explains her relationship with Clark. Uh I thought that did that wonderfully. Um brings in uh Mamoa as Lobo, which uh he was a little stiff, I'm not gonna lie. But I mean, obviously, you look at the character, and I mean he fucking is Lobo. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_04 59:30

I mean, there is no actually have a I I can't think of an actor who would embody it better. But also, it's a new character for him, so you know it'll take time for him to settle into the role and all that shit. Hold on.

SPEAKER_03 59:44

Alright, all right, all right. Slide it out a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go.

SPEAKER_04 59:48

And then Guy Gadner.

SPEAKER_03 59:50

And Guy Gadner.

SPEAKER_04 59:51

No, I know, and that's like Nathan Phillian is Guy Gardner. Uh, you know there's gonna be an interaction between the two of them at some point.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

Oh, there has to be. I mean, there was a lot of I'm actually kind of hoping that um he's putting all the pieces together for uh the this iteration of the Justice League, the 1987 uh Baha Haw, they call it. It's got uh fucking Blue Beetle, Batman, Marsh and Manhunter, and there's rumor that Mosh and Manhunter is gonna be in the next one. Uh in the Man of Steel is Gardner and that Shazam Tip Shit. Shazam, Dr. Fate. Uh, and that was actually the first introduction of uh Maxwell Lord.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:36

Yeah. But I think that they're leaning toward that because I've heard rumor that uh there is a casting of Martian Manhunter uh for the next movie.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:48

That's cool. So it only makes sense. But yeah, all Supergirl was meant to do is exactly what it did. Uh I don't know why it pissed off so many people. Um a lot of the Snyder people uh that are in support of that, uh I feel like they were like the most offended, which is bizarre. But they're still butthurt over Superman, which actually just came out like a year ago, like a couple days ago.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:12

Yeah, and uh yeah. But and that's the funny part is it's like I I think with the Snyder Bro situation, it it's Superman was given characteristics that he was never meant to have in the the true iteration of the character. Um I didn't mind them. I actually liked the exploration of well, I wonder what it would be like if we did this. I thought Nana Steel was fantastic, but I fully acknowledge the fact that that is not the foundational essence of the character. It's too angsty, too dark. Um, but it was an interesting kind of sidebar of I wonder what it would be like if it was like this. I thought it was great. But now that that's kind of been established, and for so many people of that generation, it's their Superman. Now this like brighter, quote unquote, softer Superman has shown up and they're all butthurt about it. And it's like this is this is what Superman actually is.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:22

Yes. He's supposed to give you all he's supposed to be full spectrum like perfect person.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:29

Like everything about him is supposed to be like Well, he's he is quite literally the Christ character in comics.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:41

Yeah, he's he's the one who shows up to save everybody, and it's in that line that Marlon Brando says they are great people, Kalel, if they choose to be.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:52

If they wish to be.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:54

They're great people, Kalel. They wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. This for this reason above all, I have sent them you, my only son.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:05

Uh and I'm I'm also glad that they chose to go with another DC hero other than Wonder Woman. Um not that I don't like Wonder Woman. I'm just I need something more. You know? There's so much more out there. Yeah, and I and uh never do another cat uh Ellie Barry Catwoman.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:29

Please let me go. I know, I know, I know. Um but really too, the the I get how people are viewing a comic book franchise as a like, oh, I want this to stay comic booky. But let's be honest, comic book characters are drawn, like Arnold Schwarzenegger from the 70s and Christina Brinkley from the 80s, right? It's like one one is a bodybuilder and the other is an underwear model. Like that's how they became in the comics. So now when real people are embodying these characters with real life challenges and issues, and like, hey, let's delve into the darkness inside of us so we can be better people, like suddenly it's like, ah, this isn't realistic. It's like, are you fucking kidding me? This is more realistic than the comics have ever been. And that's the point.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:33

Did you notice that Clack Kent is wicked ripped?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:38

Yeah, that's weird. Uh yeah, it's just I feel like James Gunn has figured out a way to take us back to the original comic feel with a modern realistic take on how people would act as those characters.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

Yeah. You know, and the thing is, is like all the things that they consider called woke, I mean, there were things that were in storylines, you know, like that whole trafficking part of Supergirl, that that was that that's part of it. Uh the the fucking shit typing monkeys in Superman. I know. I mean, that is totally something that would have been in the panel of a of a comic that Lex would have done, you know? I mean, it's bonkers how people get so butthurt over fake things. What amazes me is I much rather argue comics over anything else. Like just because it's fake, you know? It's like it doesn't really matter if it's so it's all subjective, yeah. Yeah. You know what the other thing I was telling Jan is like we have taken uh well I've taken for granted all these powers that he had, but I didn't you you don't realize until you go back and you look at it, like it was all gradual, like the concepts of things, like the whole like hey, uh I think it's the Earth's yellow sun. Um that concept didn't appear until the 60s, and food Superman came out in like 38.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:09

38, yeah. So it was almost what? 30 years. Uh almost. Well, like twenty five, certainly. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's it's bond. And now it's now it's canon, and people are like, ah but I I heard that too about Supergirl. I think it's stupid that she has to go recharge herself from the yellow suns of the universe. Do you not know the lore of the character? If Superman stays away from a yellow sun for too long, he loses his powers. That's not an like.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:51

People are gonna lose their mind.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

But really, I think I think kind of like touching on the female aspect of things too, because we had talked about this, how there's an assumption that if you're going to be a female superhero, if I don't want to fuck you, then what good are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:11

You know?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

Like that this the whole the underwear model thing. Like it's not about the character being a good character by a good actor who's recognizing the challenges and the struggles of that character. It's is she does she look hot in the uniform? And will I will I want to fuck her?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

I swear I understood the fact that she was in a skirt. Like, why?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:37

It was all. All it was always misogyny, man. It was I want to see.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:42

No, I know, but it's like like practicality, like that's like nothing but upskirt shots. Like of course. Every time she flies by.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:49

Of course. Because nothing was thought of. She wasn't supergirl because she was a powerful character. She was supergirl because she was a woman and hot, and we get to say, oh, wouldn't it be awesome to sleep with Supergirl?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

Right? So it it's and they put her in a Georgia Peaches outfit. How are we supposed to slide in these things?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:09

No, no shit.

unknown 1:08:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:11

But yeah, totally. And and that's the thing, is like this is the first iteration of the character that I know. I mean, I may be wrong, but that I'm aware of. That wasn't specifically created to be sexual. Right. Or at least, like, it was more about how can we make this a good character and show a good story versus how can we make her look as hot as possible? I'm not saying that Millie Alcott isn't an attractive woman, because she is. But the desire was about the character. Not about making the character look fuckable, basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:50

Yeah, right. Like again, uh, if I so may say about the hundreds of inappropriate shots or angles that they used in Wheedon's cut of the Justice League. Like if you go back and you watch it, like it's a few years. I have to watch that again because I I'm not as aware of that as when you first see it, you're like, you don't notice it because it's you know, and then you watch the the new one, and you go back and you're like, whoa, what the fuck? Like, yeah, there's just some things, it's like it seems to be more of a focus. You know, it's it's bonkers. And maybe it was just something that was like seen because it was like, you know, at the time all those allegations were coming out, so then you go back and you rewatch it, and it's kind of slapping you in the face, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

Well, and dude, and and not for nothing, but like I will fully admit, like, who doesn't love a butt a pair of titties bouncing in your face? Like, holy shit. Yeah, is it is that there's a time in place for everything in his college. Yeah, of course. Yeah, and it's college. But at the same time, like, look at Power Girl, right? Yeah, Power Girl is Supergirl from a different universe. And her uniform is a leotard with the chest ripped out. So, like, there's no supergirl emblem or anything, it's just a white uniform with only her cleavage showing. And hey, as a as a dude, I'm not gonna say I'm not like holy crap, that's amazingly attractive. But what does it do for the character? Absolutely nothing. It's all about sex. And and again, is there a place for that? Sure. But when it's the only thing about a character, it's a very superficial character.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:39

Right? Yeah. When I was going through uh the comics and shit from like that I had as a kid and my dad had, there was uh a couple of uh Catwoman, like they had like redone Catwoman. Yeah, and uh it's like all these like oversexualized covers, and I'm like, as soon as I got to it, I'm like, I know why the old man got that lonely, you know. It wasn't about the characters, yeah. It was totally not. It's it's like I love Selena Kyle, she's my favorite, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:10

Yeah, and you read Playboys for the articles. Right, right. Yeah, it's yeah. No, and and I uh I guess I will uh because I think we need to wind it down here, but yeah, um we didn't get into this aspect of it as much because we had talked about it, but um the fact that so many female characters are set up to basically just be sex symbols, right? Yeah. And if they're not a sex symbol, then you could give a shit about what whatever they're saying. And again, I I'm not saying Millie Alcock is not an attractive woman. What I'm saying is the casting and the uh follow-through of this iteration of the character is about the struggles of the character, not how she looks in the suit, how she, you know, how hot she is, how like there's it's about her growing into her responsibility. It's not a strict justification of a female superhero. Uh justification, objectification. It's not a strict objectification of a female superhero like it is in many situations. It is an acknowledgement of a character who has had an amazingly traumatic experience and how she recovers from that while having the powers of Superman. And that is why it's compelling because she is the version of Superman who didn't have the love, affection, and care of his Earth parents.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:57

And that's Well, it's not so much that the love and affection and care, because like as you see, she had a good childhood with Zorel and stuff. It was having that ripped away at such a young age.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:08

No, and that's my yeah, that is my point. It it it's the and I agree. The nuance of that is is certainly something too.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:15

And I'll say that that's like the one fault that I have with this new iteration of Superman is that both Ma and Pa Kent are still with us. Still alive, yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. I like the the country bumpkin aspect of them because it does play into the way that Clark is. But yeah, there's something that he that that was a major catalyst for him. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:42

No, and and in the in the 78 Superman, I they couldn't have said it any better, because that is the essence of the character, which is it's the same with Spider-Man. Why, like he was a performer until his uncle died, and then he became a crime fighter, right? It that is it's it's the lesson learned about someone who takes their abilities for granted. And that catalyst for Superman was and it was said so goddamn beautifully in the movie. Uh, all these things I can do, all these powers, and I couldn't even save him. Right? And it's it's the acknowledgement that no matter how much power you have, as human beings, there are still some things we can't control, and we just have to do our best to manage them and uh be the best person that we can. And uh that's all superheroes are are an extension of that philosophy, right? It is just taken that philosophy taken to an extreme so that we can we can see these lessons and and feel these emotions in an entertaining way. And I thought I thought uh this version of Supergirl, because of that idea, that it they nailed it. Was it done in the best way? Maybe not. It certainly didn't come across in the best way to mo to a lot of people, but the goal of what they were trying to do, I think they accomplished. As you said. Yeah. It was let's let's go over here for a second so you understand where she came from and her angst and why she shows up the way she does as Supergirl, but that version of the character was only there for that movie. She's going to now be her version of Supergirl in subsequent games. And that's the one. You just needed to establish the character. It was the transition from Kara Zorrell to Supergirl. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:57

It'll be uh it's gonna be interesting. And like I said, I mean, I'm now coming down the pipe uh because everyone is like saying that James Gunn is gonna lose his job because he's making movies that are actually true to the characters and are decent. Um that I'm I'm looking forward to fucking lanterns. Yeah. I I don't I don't know if you saw the the the latest trailer for that, but man, it looks so goddamn good. And Clayface. Holy shit, I've never been so excited for a movie about a villain in my life.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:26

I'm I will acknowledge the amazement I have of where they're taking this because it's a part of the lore, but it also seems to be like a standalone, like solidly scary Halloween movie, you know?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

There's uh so they just released they're starting like a comic series along with it. Okay. Uh so it's called Clayface Celebrity Dirt. So they're like introducing the character and stuff, I think. I think that's what they're doing. Uh either way, I I got it. It's it's pretty good. It's Clayface is another one of my favorites. Uh I don't know why. I actually have his return in uh in the Copper Age. Wait, yeah, copper 70s. Uh, because the ones his first appearance is way too fucking expensive. But uh yeah. Yeah, it's uh it's been uh it's cool. I I love what James Gunn is doing. Um this whole I I feel that I'm finally getting what I've wanted uh so fuck everybody else. Uh I'm I feel like this is the closest I'm gonna get to what Christopher Reeve really should have had. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:42

Um you know, and he and he did in the first and and Donnercut of the second, but then the third and fourth were just Oh, he should have had so much more.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:50

He should not have been so fucked over.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:52

Um yeah, and and as it always, it comes back to investment, money, ego, and all that bullshit. If it was genuinely about the character, it it would have been so different.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:05

Yeah. And I'm all for, I mean, I I don't know if they need to have more standalone movies for Supergirl, um, but I'm all for it if they have a story.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:17

It agreed.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:17

You know, that's the important thing. If it serves the story and the character, absolutely. But like I said, I mean I mean, there's so much that they could do. There's like crisis on infinite earth, I mean, there's so many different things. And hopefully, and James Gunn, I I like that's the one thing that I do like about him is that he takes uh things that are like slightly more obscure. Like there are other things that he's bringing into the fold that not a lot of people are familiar with. Like when he did um, Guardians?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:46

No, no, um Suicide Squad.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:50

Suicide Squad, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:52

So that was all characters that were like kind of unknown, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:56

Well, it it it's and I I think James Gunn is going about it the right way, but I also know that that's what DC was trying to do with copying Marvel, because they took Iron Man, who was not at like he became the foundational character of the Marvel universe because of the Iron Man movie, because of John Favreau, because of Robert Downey Jr. Uh, when before he was still a peripheral character in the grand scheme of things. And uh Gunn has been very good at doing that, especially with like Guardians of the Galaxy. I don't know if I even heard of Guardians of the Galaxy before that movie came out. It's true. So like the peripheral characters that he's been able to put in the spotlight, uh, and now to take on Superman and Supergirl and allow those worlds to have some of those peripheral characters, I think is super cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:57

Yeah. Yeah, like using Guy Gardner as a Green Lantern, fucking Mr. Terrific. Yeah, Mr.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:02

Terrific is a perfect example.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:04

Yeah, Hawk Girl could go fuck herself. I don't care about I don't care about Hawkman or Hawk Girl. I thought they were kind of dumb. In any iteration that I've seen, I've never really like Oh, they die and they come back? And uh lovers that can't find their way. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:22

Uh and I I'll I'll leave it at this because uh Yeah, we gotta wrap it up. Yeah, we gotta wrap it. We we had talked about uh talking more deeply about this, but I think we can get there in another episode. But um how you and I you and I have discussed basically jumping on board with the matriarchy. Like the fact that it's like, okay, guys have had their chance, they're continuing to fuck it up. Let's let's get some women in power and see what happens. And I I I think Supergirl as the movie that it is is a great kind of reflection of that. Because, like I was saying, it's it's not about her being a sex symbol, it's about her being a legitimate person in the world who has challenges and is doing her best to overcome them and leading in the way that she can and taking point and taking responsibility, you know, like and she's a solid character. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:28

She can fly and shoot shit out of her eyes.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:31

Yeah. She's just a normal person, and and I like that iteration. Like that again, I mean, another not to go back to Superman, but that's like the other iteration that I like is the TV episode of fucking Superman and Lois.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:44

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:21:45

Yep. Um where it's all real world shit. Because like we've all we know he can burn shit, he can freeze shit with his mouth, all this other happy hoss shit. But can he be a dad, you know? Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:58

Can he have a sex talk with his you know, budding child?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:02

Yeah, that's a whole different set of skills. And and to sh and to show her struggling with all this stuff, and and I I thought it was just a fantastic flick, and I think everybody should at least see it once. I mean, they don't have to love it, but it's definitely not as bad as um at all. They're giving it shit for.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:21

I I think it I'll leave I'll say this as my last thing. If you take away the supergirl aspect, I do, I do, I say that a lot. Uh if you take away the supergirl aspect of things and just look at it as a character piece, right? She she lost everything. She's trying to cope, she has found ways to cope, and she ends up being called to protect somebody else reluctantly, and in doing so, she found the better parts of herself. That's a fantastic hero's journey, regardless of what the the packaging is. But it's so much better for me as a comic book fan, Superman fan especially, that it's Supergirl.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:12

So I don't know what everyone's bitching about. They just like to complain. Of course. You know, the toughest thing I think that girl has to deal with is that her fucking cousin's a nerd. She's she is so much cooler than he is. For sure. Oh, yeah, without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah, I and I like that stuff like that she says, like uh, my cousin sees the good in people, and I see the truth. I see the truth, yeah. So, yeah. I like that she's not as jaded, I suppose, as Clark would be.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:44

Yeah, she's more of a realist uh but also just not even that, just she's more jaded because she's had real-world experience, as you said, that was taken away from her. Whereas Earth is the only thing Clark's ever known. And that's a great it's a great way to juxtapose the characters with the same abilities from different perspectives and experiences. And I I hope that that was an inkling of the thought when she was created, versus just like, oh, let's have a female version of Superman. Like, how about a totally different perspective?

SPEAKER_02 1:24:23

You know what makes this character great? Tits. Yeah. And not for nothing, but like always one of those kind of guys in a picture.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:34

I was gonna say not for nothing. I feel like a lot of comic book characters were created for specifically that reason.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:41

Yeah. You know what makes us great? Boobs. Like boobs. I've been working on a joke. Boobs make everything.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:49

They really just do.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:50

Yeah. Right. Well why it grimace looks like a butt plug, and then they name him after the face you make up on insertion. Like you know the guy in that boardroom, they got a good laugh, and then that motherfucker got a raise.

unknown 1:25:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:05

And let's see how long it'll take to put it together.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:09

That's so good.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:10

Yeah, you should totally. It's like a uh a hidden adult joke in a Muppet movie that you know you laugh at because your parents are laughing at, but then why they're laughing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:21

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:24

And on that note, we cue the music. Denn it.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:29

You guys have a great one. We'll uh see you.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:31

Yes, and we will be back around more often. I know we've been MIA, but uh we're back to it, fellas.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:39

We promise we're gonna get better at this. Yep. So uh take care, and until next time. I'm Pete. Peace! And that's Chris.