Reclaiming Desire

Redeeming Desire: Listening to the Ache and Meeting God There

In this episode, we discuss how desire has been distorted by both a culture that says to gratify it and religious voices that say to shut it down, and invite a more careful, redeemed view. 

Desire is described as a deep ache that tells the truth about what the heart longs for, not simply a problem to manage with pornography, fantasy, erotic literature, or even as a tool to prepare for sex in marriage. We are encouraged to approach desire with kind curiosity, notice shame or anger, and ask what the desire is communicating about intimacy with God and with others. 

We encourage you to share this with someone who may need it, and reach out with questions or for help engaging this topic.

Links: Rethinking Sexuality - Dr. Juli Slattery

Contact us today: If you have a question, comment, or need help, email us at info@regenerationministries.org

Free Resources for you!

👉Women 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Women overcoming unwanted sexual Behavior)
👉Compass 21-Day Prayer Journal & Devotional - (Wives who are or have been impacted by partner betrayal)

Transcript

Andrea 0:23

Okay, Kyle, here we are. We are going to tackle the topic, not tackle, let's not tackle it.

Kyle 0:29

Okay.

Andrea 0:30

Let's just hold it very carefully. The topic of desire.

Kyle 0:33

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 0:34

Um, the world as we know, has been really loud about this idea of desire. How, um. Our relationship to it.

Kyle 0:44

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 0:44

That we gratify it, give it what it wants. And so it's really kind of jacked up this idea, this original design for desire. And so our conversation today, um, oh my gosh. And let's just add in the church also, right? Where this idea of let's constrict it, let's tighten belts around it. Let's, um, shut it down.

Kyle 1:10

Yeah.

Andrea 1:10

Um. That's not the design either.

Kyle 1:14

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 1:14

So let's hold it carefully.

Kyle 1:16

Yeah.

Andrea 1:17

And let's redeem this idea of desire.

Kyle 1:20

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 1:23

When I consider the word desire, especially with, um, the women that we work with, uh, right away I think of, um, the. I believe this firmly, that our bodies are truth tellers and that ache that's inside deserves attention.

Kyle 1:43

It does.

Andrea 1:44

Um, I have my hand on my heart right away. That's where I feel that ache of desire.

Kyle 1:49

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 1:50

So even that right there, you might think that desire shows up in different places of your body, but it is your heart's deepest ache and it's put there. By

Kyle 2:04

on purpose. Um. Mm-hmm. And I think sometimes it's, we don't stop to ask the question, um, what is my desire actually telling me?

Andrea 2:15

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 2:16

It's easy just to go, oh, this desire has come up, so now there's something I need to do with it so that it is satisfied. And so maybe it's. Turning to pornography and masturbation. Maybe it's grabbing the, the novel, the erotic literature and reading. Or maybe it's, you know, spending time in fantasy and sexual fantasy and thinking this is what is gonna make the desire meet that need and make me feel better. Um, and even as if you are a married woman and. You use that, those means to actually prepare you to have sexual intimacy with your spouse. Mm-hmm. And even in that, um, there's, that's something, there's something broken there as well. It that the desire that you are trying to tap into, there's a message. That your heart is telling you.

Andrea 3:28

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 3:28

There's a message that the ache is bringing forth.

Andrea 3:31

Mm-hmm. And I'm glad that you mentioned that because we just did a, a podcast on fantasy and we asked questions of the fantasy. And so that's like, that's a top level question asking place, but the desire is the ultimate place to start asking those questions. Mm-hmm. And bring in that careful and kind curiosity.

Kyle 3:53

Yes. And. I think even starting with, well, when the desire comes up, what are your thoughts about it? Mm-hmm. About you experiencing it? Like, are you going, this is ridiculous. I don't know why I have to deal with this. Are you trying to tamp it down mm-hmm. And lock it up mm-hmm. And make sure, um, that it doesn't go awry or. Are you turning just inwardly on yourself and thinking that I'm this awful person. If I'm feeling this, what is wrong with me? How come I can't just get this under control? Or even, um, why doesn't God just have an off switch if you are single?

Andrea 4:41

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 4:42

Why doesn't God just have an off switch, turn it off, and then when. If and when marriage comes from me, then the switch gets to be flipped back on.

Andrea 4:51

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So right away, like let's be clear that, um, if you're turning it on yourself, there's shame mm-hmm. Talking to you. That's not from God. If you are attacking. Desire, uh, what are you doing here? Well, that's not from God either. And then if you're angry at God, well, okay, that's a whole separate conversation. And also it's part of this, but, uh, where's God in that?

Kyle 5:19

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 5:20

Are, are you, are you asking the questions and then spending time to hear the answer?

Kyle 5:24

Exactly. Exactly. Um, and even just to think about. It's easy to compartmentalize sexual desire apart from passion for life.

Andrea 5:38

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 5:39

And so like sexual desire isn't a separate thing by in and of itself, like desire encompasses your longings for, um, experiencing beauty, having fun, enjoying good food, like. It's not just this little thing over here on the side that you've gotta kind of manage and work through.

Andrea 6:02

Yeah.

Kyle 6:02

It's, it's a part of life that should ignite something toward the Lord.

Andrea 6:11

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 6:11

And I know that might feel really weird

Andrea 6:13

Yeah.

Kyle 6:14

For people to hear and go, wait, like, how in the world does. Sexual desire, how should that point me to the Lord?

Andrea 6:22

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 6:22

Um, and I think I've said this quote before from Paul David Tripp, where he says, every pleasurable thing that, that we experience should point to the one who created it. And so what might the Lord even be saying to you when this rises up? What is he saying? Is there intimacy that you're missing with him?

Andrea 6:49

Mm.

Kyle 6:51

Is there intimacy that you're missing with friends where you are in front of people who see you and know you? And when you talk about some of the hard things that they can reflect Christ to you?

Andrea 7:04

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 7:04

Like maybe there's a message that you're overlooking

Andrea 7:10

mm-hmm.

Kyle 7:10

That your heart is really trying to tell you.

Andrea 7:12

Mm. If I can be blunt, if, if we're reducing desire to just being horny, well then that's limiting.

Kyle 7:22

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 7:22

That's very reductionistic. Yes. And what you're saying is, and I think that this is part of the idea of redeeming desire, is this bigger picture. Mm-hmm. This bigger invitation, um, because that ache inside might be to get in front of somebody else's face and actually have a great conversation.

Kyle 7:41

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Andrea 7:43

And, and don't like laugh it off listener. Like, listen to that, try that.

Kyle 7:50

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 7:50

When that desire and that eight comes up, how about you try going, playing pickleball with a group of people or, um, crocheting. That is, that's a really big thing. That's a thing right now. It's a thing right now, let me tell you. Um. The, the invitation's bigger.

Kyle 8:09

Yes.

Andrea 8:10

So consider bigger, different, more ideas.

Kyle 8:14

Mm-hmm. And if, if God is the creator of sexual desire, and listen, we, we wanna acknowledge that temptation happens. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. The enemy is gonna bring stuff to the forefront that might draw you in that way. Let's. The fact remains that God still is the creator of sexual desire.

Andrea 8:36

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 8:37

Um, the enemy might want to temp you to use it in a way that is not God's best. Mm-hmm. But the fact still remains. He created that. Mm-hmm. So then the question is, there's still something, regardless of what your marital or your relationship status is, there's something that has to draw you into engaging with God.

Andrea 9:00

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 9:01

I can remember the first time I sent this to a young woman I was working with, I was like, what might it be like when, like when sexual desire arises that you start talking to the Lord about God? This is what I'm feeling. Like, I'm feeling like the only way to take care of the desire in my heart is maybe to go look at porn and masturbate.

Andrea 9:23

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 9:23

And she was like, you can't say that to God. I was like, sure you can. Um. What? You never know how God wants to meet you in that. And I know for some people listening, they're going, I don't know lady, what you're talking about. I don't know if that is a real thing. All I can say is. What happens if you try it?

Andrea 9:45

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 9:46

Would, you would be willing just to try it.

Andrea 9:48

It reminds me of those chapter books where you can choose your, the next step in the book, excuse me, or choose your ending and desire and temptation don't always go hand in hand.

Kyle 10:00

Right?

Andrea 10:00

Right. So, um, if you don't go towards the temptation, then there's this other voice. This is the bigger voice, the one who created desire has another idea for you.

Kyle 10:12

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 10:12

So, yes, he wants to hear it. He wants to hear your, Hey, I'm frustrated. This is what I, this Temptation's calling. Mm-hmm. What, what do you got?

Kyle 10:20

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 10:21

And oh my goodness. Yeah. How might the, how might you be surprised by how the Lord. We'll meet you in

Kyle 10:28

that. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and you know, there are times that you have to be considerate about what's happening in your body. Mm-hmm. Hormonally, if you're gonna be mid cycle, your body's like, Hey, we're getting ready for pregnancy. What are we gonna do?

Andrea 10:40

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 10:41

Those are times you have to understand what's going on with yourself and acknowledge that.

Andrea 10:47

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 10:48

And know, okay, I need some things in my toolbox. When this starts to happen.

Andrea 10:54

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 10:55

I have a means of being able to engage with God in a way that my outcome doesn't necessarily take me towards something simple.

Andrea 11:06

Mm-hmm. So, practically speaking, because when you're redeeming desire, maybe there's some practical steps that you might need to take, putting your calendar or, or syncing your calendar with your cycle. Mm-hmm. Game changer. Yeah. You know, when you start feeling like, I'm so ugly, nobody's ever gonna love me, and you can know, oh

Kyle 11:31

yeah, I

Andrea 11:31

see

Kyle 11:32

what's happening.

Andrea 11:32

I see what's going on here.

Kyle 11:33

Exactly.

Andrea 11:34

That's awesome. That's so helpful. There's, um, somatic work that you can do mm-hmm. To work out some anger with God where you stand like two feet in front of a wall and you allow yourself with your hands in front of you to fall forward, like you're almost gonna do a pushup and then you push off.

Kyle 11:49

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 11:50

And imagine that that's God's chest.

Kyle 11:52

Yeah.

Andrea 11:53

And you're pushing off of his chest saying, this comes up every month and I don't know what to do with it. Mm-hmm. What do you want me to do with it? And allow the God of the universe to meet you in that.

Kyle 12:03

Yeah.

Andrea 12:03

That's a beautiful prayer where you're working some angst out of your body

Kyle 12:08

mm-hmm.

Andrea 12:08

And acknowledging it and not turning it into something else.

Kyle 12:12

Yeah. And I, I totally understand and get like the feeling of can't this just be dormant?

Andrea 12:20

Hmm.

Kyle 12:21

Until it's time for me to be able to be married.

Andrea 12:25

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 12:26

Um, or maybe you're a married woman.

Andrea 12:29

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 12:30

And maybe you've been using pornography or erotic literature, um, outside of your marriage and, you know, you're kind of thinking like, this is the, this is. The the best I can do.

Andrea 12:47

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 12:47

Like, this is the only way I can, I feel like my desire is deeply met. Um, and, and you wanna just be able to shut it down mm-hmm. Until it is time for you to engage sexually with your spouse. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I wanna acknowledge that and say yes, totally get that. Um, but. Killing. That means probably killing desire, not just there.

Andrea 13:21

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 13:21

It means killing desire in other areas of your life. Yeah. And you become like cut off at the, at the neck, right? Yeah. You're not, you're just walking around.

Andrea 13:30

Yeah.

Kyle 13:30

Emotionless, uh, trying not to express yourself in the way you need to express yourself. It's sad. It is. But at the same time, like. God wants to be with you in that acknowledgement and the difficulty, um, because look, it is hard.

Andrea 13:50

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 13:51

It's, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to kind of manage, engage and, and engage with something that you feel like there's only one way to fix it.

Andrea 14:01

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kyle 14:02

And so what if you are even willing to explore that? Part of what you're experiencing also is the power with which the Lord loves you, that it creates even something bodily that probably got jacked up bef at the fall. But what if part of this is. Man, the love of God is so powerful. Mm-hmm. That I experience it in my entire body.

Andrea 14:41

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 14:41

And because, um, of the ways in which we have been taught about sexual desire and how it should be handled and managed, there's no conversation about, um, what that was like before we had sin in the world.

Andrea 15:01

Mm-hmm. So speaking about Eve, I wonder if in particular, for women, because when we read that in Genesis three, that Eve's desire for knowledge, this beautiful tree, this beautiful fruit that she acts on that desire. Mm-hmm. And takes it that there's a clouding of shame almost, of women and their desire.

Kyle 15:27

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 15:28

That dates all the way back to the very first woman.

Kyle 15:31

Yeah.

Andrea 15:34

If that's true. Okay. Yes, that's true. Right? There's also Rahab, there's also Ruth, there's also Mary

Kyle 15:44

mm-hmm.

Andrea 15:44

Who said yes to this, um, Mary especially who redeems that acting on a desire for something more selfish. Mary acts on this desire for something. Bigger connection. Yeah. And her Yes. Brings the savior of the world

Kyle 16:06

mm-hmm.

Andrea 16:07

Into the world.

Kyle 16:07

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 16:11

I, this is why I love the Bible, is just that both women are included.

Kyle 16:17

Yes.

Andrea 16:18

Both women are necessary.

Kyle 16:19

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 16:20

Um, because I have felt like saying yes, and I've also felt like acting out of my own desire.

Kyle 16:25

Yeah.

Andrea 16:30

In both. God is present,

Kyle 16:32

he is

Andrea 16:32

in both. God does not leave. When Eve acts out of her desire to move towards this apple and bite it, God comes forward and asks her questions. Mm-hmm. And looks for her.

Kyle 16:47

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 16:49

I'm encouraged by that.

Kyle 16:50

Yes.

Andrea 16:51

And that speaks to who God is in my desire today in 2026.

Kyle 16:56

Yeah. I think the other thing to think about is what, what are the voices that you've heard that have shaped the way you view desire? Um, if you are a woman who has been struggling with any type of unwanted sexual behavior, um, if you've heard these voices, like, well, you know, the Bible says, it says you gotta. X, Y, z, you know, they can give you all the scripture or they just tell you, you know, you need to get that together. Mm-hmm. You know, you need to really work on that.

Andrea 17:28

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 17:29

Um, I think you also have to, in that, you have to think about, um, what are some of the other things in life that have shaped the way you have seen desire. Um,

Andrea 17:41

culturally,

Kyle 17:42

yeah. Mm-hmm. You might be, what if you are in a highly sexualized, you came from a highly sexualized culture

Andrea 17:49

mm-hmm.

Kyle 17:49

Where everything is, has something to do with, you know, body image and how you show up for. Somebody of the opposite sex. Mm-hmm. And how do you present yourself and how do you make sure you make, you're looking? So there's ideas around, oh, so when this desire comes up, this is the way I should be.

Andrea 18:11

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 18:12

And what does it mean to face that, uh, not despise where you come from?

Andrea 18:18

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 18:20

But know that there may be some things that are broken that just need to be reframed and reshaped.

Andrea 18:25

Yeah. Um, and speaking personally, that's, that's a lifelong separation. Untangling.

Kyle 18:31

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 18:31

For sure. That that's painful.

Kyle 18:33

Yeah,

Andrea 18:34

it's painful and it definitely, um, taints desire distorts it.

Kyle 18:39

Yeah. And so if you've thought about, um, just, Hey, would you just be so much better if I can just shut this thing down?

Andrea 18:48

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 18:49

Leave it locked up in the box and then I can unleash it whenever it comes. I would just encourage you again, just to think about how that affects the rest of your life.

Andrea 19:00

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 19:00

And how you want desire and passion. Uh, because right now what has happened is the, the, the good desire has been separated from true love.

Andrea 19:16

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 19:16

Like the kind of agape love that the Lord

Andrea 19:19

mm-hmm.

Kyle 19:20

Um, has for us.

Andrea 19:21

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 19:22

That got ripped apart.

Andrea 19:23

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 19:23

In the garden. And so now we got this lustful desire that's a thing in and of itself when it was never meant to be.

Andrea 19:32

Mm-hmm. And in our day and age, it's on a pedestal.

Kyle 19:37

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 19:37

And it's watered down.

Kyle 19:38

Yeah.

Andrea 19:39

And it's spread real thin. So if God is the designer and origination. Originator of desire. It's a big deal.

Kyle 19:49

Yes.

Andrea 19:50

And so it should be treated as such.

Kyle 19:52

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 19:53

And there's a big word that goes with that, and that is covenant. That's that's a hefty word.

Kyle 20:00

That is a hefty word.

Andrea 20:01

And it should be appropriately connected to this work desire.

Kyle 20:08

Yeah. I was just looking for. A quote that just went away. Here we go. This is from Julie Slattery's book, rethinking Sex Sexuality, and she says, our sexual desires in unmet cravings can propel us toward marriage, but ultimately they should propel us to a greater truth that we were made for eternal covenant. And just think about the picture of us as the church, the bride, and, and Jesus as our bride groom.

Andrea 20:49

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 20:49

Like there is covenant relationship. That's covenant language, that is intimate language.

Andrea 20:56

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 20:57

That is the bridegroom coming for you and bringing you in. To himself. Mm-hmm. Right. That's there is some something sensual.

Andrea 21:11

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 21:11

Not sexual, but sensual about that, right? Mm-hmm. And so. There is work to, to reframe and to change our thinking around that.

Andrea 21:22

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 21:22

It takes us a lot and so I'm gonna acknowledge that right here. Like, you won't listen to this podcast and go, oh, okay, I got it. I'm good. That's, that's not gonna happen. You might have to listen to this. Several times. Mm-hmm. Maybe it's important to have conversations with some friends

Andrea 21:41

mm-hmm.

Kyle 21:41

Some trusted Christian friends around it and think, ask their points of view about it.

Andrea 21:46

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 21:47

Um, so that there is opportunity for your thought process to be changed and, and you won't see desire as this evil thing, but. As a way to start to think about first and foremost, what is my heart saying to me in this, and how do I bring God into that place?

Andrea 22:13

Mm-hmm. God is ultimately after our communion with us. Mm-hmm. So much so that he sent his son Jesus, who gave up his body for communion with us, and so it says a lot about our body. In communion and desire, um, I looked up covenant and it's defined as a formal, solemn and binding agreement, promise or contract between two or more party parties. To do or not do a specific action. It implies a deep lasting relationship or pledge ranging from legal contracts and property law to a theological context. Sacred promises between God and humanity. A sacred promise that your desires a sacred promise between God and you sit with that definition for a minute.

Kyle 23:07

Mm-hmm.

Andrea 23:08

And that expands it. I, I pray that, that those words, even that a sacred promise God has given you desire as a sacred promise between him and you let

Kyle 23:21

that cleanse whatever has been attached to your idea of desire. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, and can you see this as ultimately a de, a deeper desire to be in union? With the one who created you. Mm-hmm. And I know that's a leap. That's a leap. Um, like, and

Andrea 23:43

yet,

Kyle 23:45

but there's truth in that. Yeah. There is truth in that. Yeah. Can you see it as that? Um, and that's, that's gonna take some work and some time. Mm-hmm. Maybe you have to come and talk to one of the coaches here at regeneration around that and, and, and, and unpack it in that way.

Andrea 24:00

Mm-hmm. I mean, I'm married. I have a wonderful husband. I have five children that my heart is deeply connected to. Mm-hmm. And I still have that ache.

Kyle 24:13

Mm.

Andrea 24:13

Because, um, a wedding band does not create that, um, does not satisfy that godly, sacred promise, um, for communion.

Kyle 24:26

Yeah.

Andrea 24:26

Um, children don't do that.

Kyle 24:28

Mm-hmm. It,

Andrea 24:28

it's only God. It's only God.

Kyle 24:36

So, um, I think we should pray. Yeah, I was gonna say, I think it's, this is a good place to kind of pause, let all the things sink in and just ask God for his, uh, favor over people who are listening. Ask him, uh, to care for them well as they hear this. It would be great even to hear from some folks after this one, would love to be able to hear your thoughts about this conversation. Do we need to talk about it some more even? Yeah. Let us know. Uh, we would, we, because we, we don't wanna shy away from these things. We want to bring this stuff out in the open so that there is no shame.

Andrea 25:24

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 25:25

So that there is. Uh, kindness and care

Andrea 25:29

mm-hmm.

Kyle 25:30

That happens around this conversation. That's right.

Andrea 25:34

Would you wanna pray for us?

Kyle 25:35

I will Pray for us.

Andrea 25:37

Okay.

Kyle 25:38

Oh, gracious God. Sometimes just sexual desire, no matter whether we are married or single, can be so confusing and don't know what to do with it. And we think that the only solution is to turn to something sexual. Lord, I pray that you would help us to see the bigger picture around, uh, desire and passion for life that is not just drilled down to, um, sexual intimacy, but it's about, um, the way in which we live our lives, the passion with which we live our lives, and our ultimate desire is to be intimate with you. How entering into that Lord can help even start to, uh, make the, the things, the temptation, not as intense because we are experiencing this true intimacy with you and with others. Uh, God, you created us for relationship first with you and with others. And so help us not to forget. That we do need to be face to face, face with some people.

Andrea 26:53

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 26:53

That when these things come up, we have those who are going to, uh, be there for us and be the face of Jesus as we walk through this, and we can do the same for them. And so God, um, bless all that has taken place here today.

Andrea 27:08

Mm-hmm.

Kyle 27:08

And God just touch each and every heart of the listeners and Lord help them and be with them as they work this out. And, and prayerfully, Lord, what happens is that they fall more in love with you and all that they say and do is motivated solely for their love for you. And so we lift this prayer in the name of your son, Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen.