Episode 36: Marc Matthews

In this episode of the Face Your Ears podcast, hosts Rich and Justin welcome Marc Matthews, a prolific producer and the host of the Inside the Mix podcast. They delve into Marc’s journey in the music industry, discussing his extensive experience in mixing, mastering, and teaching. Marc shares valuable tips on preparing tracks for mastering, the benefits and challenges of AI in music production, and how to overcome self-doubt in creative projects. The episode is packed with advice for emerging artists and producers looking to enhance their craft and find their unique sound.

00:00 Welcome to Face Your Ears Podcast
00:40 Creative Projects Update
01:20 Venturing into YouTube
02:47 Introducing Marc Matthews
02:59 Marc Matthews' Musical Journey
05:24 Common Mixing Mistakes
08:56 The Importance of Documentation
14:56 Mastering Your Own Tracks vs. Hiring a Pro
19:04 AI in Music Mastering
24:45 AI in Music: Recognizing Artificial Creativity
25:21 The Role of AI in Music Production
26:41 Co-Producer Plugin: A Game Changer
28:14 The Endless Tweaking Cycle in Music Production
28:42 Mindset Shifts for Finishing Tracks
30:32 Setting Deadlines and Iteration Processes
32:39 Overcoming Self-Doubt in Music Production
35:44 The Academic Route to Music Production
38:52 Lightning Round: Fun and Insights
44:19 Final Thoughts and Promotions

Links for Marc Matthews:

Newsletter:  https://bit.ly/406krPU

Podcast:  https://insidethemix.buzzsprout.com/

YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/@MarcMatthewsProducer

IG:  https://www.instagram.com/marcmatthewsproducer/

Website:  https://www.synthmusicmastering.com/

Check out the Episodes of 'Inside the Mix' featuring Justin and Rich:

Justin: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/music-production-and-mixing-tips-podcast-for-diy/id1551795483?i=1000704410223

Rich: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/music-production-and-mixing-tips-podcast-for-diy/id1551795483?i=1000708233891

For Production Services, Coaching and Lessons, visit:

www.rjbmusicproduction.com

For help prepping your songs/voice for the studio:

www.bozicvoicestudio.com

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Transcript

Rich 0:09

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Face Your Ears podcast. I'm joined here with my co-host Justin Hola from Michigan. How you doing, buddy?

Justin 0:20

I'm doing well. Rich, how are things in New Jersey?

Rich 0:24

it's going well here. A lot of planning happening. Uh, I got, I had a few, uh, recording sessions happen this past week. I've been working with this band called Star Drop. It's Japanese anime inspired music. Good

Justin 0:37

Cool.

Rich 0:38

How about you? How about on your end?

Justin 0:40

I actually just last night finished a demo for a song. For the music project I'm doing called Same, not Same. So I sent that to my friend Jay and he freaked out and I was like, this is great. I love this. And so we've got another single in the, in the pot getting cooked and uh, I should be out sometime in the near future. So excited to have. New irons in the fire creatively speaking I had some releases recently. Um, but you know, I felt like this drought of creativity and it was just fun the past few days just to work on something fresh and new. So excited about that.

Rich 1:16

excellent. any announcements.

Justin 1:20

One thing I wanted to share with our listeners is Rich and I are starting to venture out. Into this scary world of YouTube. It's been, it's something we've wanted to do ever since we started this podcast, but I think we really wanted to kind of find our voice and our cadence with the podcast. And we feel really confident in that now. So now we're venturing out to YouTube with shorts. So we're, we're starting to upload those. I think our most recent one, we got a copyright strike or something. I was just using some like stock audio,

Rich 1:51

who would've thought it's not. Not all stock audio is.

Justin 1:54

it's created equal, I guess. Yeah. So, uh, I just need to fix that up. But it's been fun to create some of these shorts and it's a lot easier than I thought. So definitely keep an eye out for our YouTube shorts. We'll put a link to our YouTube channel in the show description so you can check that out easily. And something else I also wanted to plug is. Inside the Mix, uh, which is a podcast that Rich and I had the opportunity and the pleasure of being on with Host Marc Matthews. So, I was on I think it was May, and then rich came on just after me. So you can check out our episodes. We'll put links to those shows in our show notes as well. And speaking of inside the mix, and Marc Matthews. Rich, do you want to talk about our episode for today

Rich 2:46

All right. Yes, it is my pleasure. to introduce another guest on the Face of Your Ears podcast. Today we have the man that I. Justin just mentioned, lemme tell you about him. So Marc Matthews is described as the ultimate. Musical multitasker as a guitar shredder, producer extraordinaire, and mixing mastering magician. He's done it all. He spent over eight years in the metal quintet engraved disillusion touring Europe and releasing killer albums that'll make your eardrums bleed after earning an. MSC in music engineering and production from the University of South Wales in the uk. His passion for sharing knowledge led him to become a qualified teacher. He loves teaching other producers how to elevate their tracks from mediocre to magnificent. is the host of the popular podcast inside the Mix that takes listeners on an intimate journey into the world of mixing. He gets up close and personal with the big names in the industry providing exclusive round table critiques and personalized coaching sessions. Join him for cutting edge music production tutorials and insightful interviews with Grammy Award-winning audio professionals like Dom Morley, who worked with Adele and Mike Exeter. worked with Black Sabbath? if you are passionate about music production and mixing, don't miss this podcast. And here we go. I want to introduce our guest. Marc Matthews. Welcome.

Marc 4:26

Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure to be

Rich 4:28

be,

Marc 4:28

I

Rich 4:28

I like that opening. There's

Marc 4:30

in there that I forgot. to be fair, that was in my, uh, my bio. And

Rich 4:35

impressive, doesn't

Justin 4:36

Yes. Yes.

Marc 4:38

of the words, the buzzwords I put in there as well, make your ears bleed. Uh, I, I dunno where I

Rich 4:43

Dunno.

Marc 4:44

But it,

Rich 4:44

But

Marc 4:44

it

Rich 4:45

yeah, it was heavy music.

Marc 4:46

drop B, so it was pretty

Justin 4:47

Wow.

Rich 4:48

Nice.

Marc 4:49

feel it through the bass

Justin 4:50

that's great.

Marc 4:52

But no, it's a

Rich 4:52

It's a pleasure. Um, so yeah, was also pleasure having you guys

Marc 4:56

podcast. For your audience, um, obviously you're gonna put links in here, but it was episode 191. I had to look this up myself. And 194

Rich 5:03

great.

Justin 5:04

Yeah.

Marc 5:04

approaching 200 episodes. I

Justin 5:06

Wow.

Marc 5:07

weeks.

Justin 5:08

Amazing. Yeah. Welcome Marc. I'm so glad you could join us. It's, it's really great to have you. Swap roles. You know, you're so often the host and so it's great to have you as a guest and we, again, loved being on your podcast and and are so excited to have you here. And so to kick things off, something I wanted to ask you about is your services. So they they include guidance on preparing. A mix for mastering, which is, which is an area that you're really focused on and passionate about. And what's one common mistake that you see in mixes submitted for mastering, and how can artists avoid that?

Marc 5:45

I think

Rich 5:46

Like

Marc 5:46

common

Rich 5:46

common mistake

Marc 5:47

in terms of

Rich 5:48

in

Marc 5:48

the

Rich 5:48

the actual

Marc 5:49

prep

Rich 5:49

itself,

Marc 5:51

sort of stray and erroneous peaks, I would say in particular, like one shot could be a sna, could be a buildup of energy throughout the track. So what

Rich 6:01

What I do is

Marc 6:02

the engineers do as well, I'm not sure what the mixing phase is to import a track into something like RX audio. just look at the track as a whole and look at the the measurements. I can't

Rich 6:12

come

Marc 6:12

called in loudness in in RX audio, but you can look at the, all the key meter, all the key details in there, your true peak, your RMS, your integrated your short term, your momentary. Your sample peaks as well. All that

Rich 6:25

right in there. And

Marc 6:26

and yeah,

Rich 6:27

yeah. One thing I

Marc 6:27

a lot of, in particular with more

Rich 6:30

saw a beginner

Marc 6:31

novice mix engineers, which is fine

Rich 6:33

fight.

Marc 6:34

gotta start somewhere, right? Are

Rich 6:35

Are those

Marc 6:36

peaks, which is going to have an impact on what we call your crest factor, which is the difference between the sort of the peak, the loudest part of the

Rich 6:43

the loudest part of

Marc 6:44

and the average level. So you want that really? statement, eight to 12 db, let's say for a good playback on most systems. one

Rich 6:53

One key bit,

Marc 6:54

I would give is if you can, as, as a mixer or you're a producer mixer, you're a music or an artist, is get

Rich 6:59

but get something like

Marc 7:00

Audio. Forgive me'cause I cannot think of a, a free version, but there probably is

Rich 7:04

probably isn't.

Marc 7:04

sort of free. Or similar free version out there where you can just look at your track as a whole and just look at those waveform stats and just look for those erroneous wild peace, because that is going to limit that crest factor. And if you don't

Rich 7:19

Don't take those out,

Marc 7:20

then

Rich 7:21

then that's gonna incur

Marc 7:22

gonna hurt further

Rich 7:23

further down the line in terms of loudness.

Marc 7:25

Now obviously we're not, when we're mastering, we're not shooting for a target, that's not what we're doing. We're getting it to a conducive level of where it's best for the music. But at the same time, if you're having those erroneous, those loudness moments in there, those stray transients, those wild snares or buildup of energy or something, it's gonna hurt that further down the line. It's gonna require more clipping. And the more you clip something, the further, yeah, I mean, in terms of. That level of clipping, the more you do that, you're gonna input distortion. The further down you go, the more you have to clip something which you might wanna do. It might be part of the music. It might sound good from a creative stand standpoint, but ultimately that is

Rich 8:03

That is probably.

Marc 8:04

the most. I had a mix sent across to me, I. A couple weeks ago, it was exactly that. It, it was, it was decent enough, but I had to go back as I do as

Rich 8:14

I do as an engineer anyway, I always have that back and forth

Marc 8:17

saying, okay, you've sent this

Rich 8:17

set. This tracker

Marc 8:18

Here's what I've noticed. You might

Rich 8:21

might want to a direct,

Marc 8:21

before we get to the mastering stage as that way it'll give me more scope, more room for maneuvering when it comes to mastering. So that back and forth there. So

Rich 8:29

so

Marc 8:30

listening again,

Rich 8:30

again, if you've got that opportunity.

Marc 8:32

Actually talk to an engineer, and I think we'll go through this later when we touch on ai, actually talk to an engineer and have that back and forth relationship where they can give you advice and say, okay, maybe you need to do this or you might wanna consider this next time. And this probably would be one of those. So that would

Rich 8:47

that would be my one.

Marc 8:48

my number one in terms of the mix. I got a second, but it's not

Rich 8:52

Not mixed.

Marc 8:53

if you want to hear it.

Rich 8:54

Yes, we want to hear

Justin 8:55

Absolutely.

Rich 8:55

do.

Justin 8:55

Yes.

Marc 8:56

is more to do with documentation, which is quite dry. It's quite a dry subject, but it's an important one. Now, as an engineer, when I, uh, work with a project on a project with someone, I'll send them a document to fill in and I try and get as

Rich 9:10

As much.

Marc 9:10

from them as I can. In terms of I cannot stress the importance of reference, a suitable reference for your mastering engineer. Obviously don't just shoehorn one in there for the sake of it. Get something that is in the same style. It's what you are shooting for in terms of sonics, soundscape, and overall vibe and feel. but things like the Title I. It's also useful to know the BPM, the key, and also little things like fades and fade in and fade

Rich 9:40

Faded out

Marc 9:41

do you want that fade out to start? How do you want it? Do you want a steep slope? Do you want a gentle

Rich 9:45

gentle,

Marc 9:46

Do you want a less

Rich 9:47

less gentle.

Marc 9:48

I guess you would call it? And the same

Rich 9:49

Same with fading in as

Marc 9:51

Little things like that.

Rich 9:52

well.

Marc 9:52

I give an example in my document that I hand out of what you could put, it would just. Just speeds up that process.'cause I'm not then having to go back and say, okay, what do you think of this fade? Check the fades at the end, which you would do

Rich 10:04

Do anyway, but you've got a good idea already.

Marc 10:07

of what you are shooting for in terms of how you want it. That's for

Rich 10:10

That's for a

Marc 10:10

I mean, if it's for a whole

Rich 10:11

ING Wild, but then it gets

Marc 10:13

But that in terms of. you're submitting something, if an engineer sends

Rich 10:20

into your document

Marc 10:21

fill it into the best of your ability. Too many

Rich 10:23

too many times. I have

Marc 10:25

have a document returned to me where it's not blank, but there's very little in there, the more you can put in there, the better. At the

Rich 10:31

at the end of the day. Much

Marc 10:32

is better

Rich 10:33

better than nothing.

Marc 10:34

Labeling

Rich 10:34

files

Marc 10:35

Labeling files correctly.

Rich 10:36

correctly. That's another

Marc 10:37

Label

Rich 10:38

Label it. Correct.

Marc 10:39

Also

Rich 10:39

Also in there, let the engineer know if there are any

Marc 10:42

comes down to

Rich 10:43

metadata.

Marc 10:44

metadata. So who's performed on it? If you've got any ISRC codes, any UPC codes, any barcodes, anything like that. If you've got now, I

Rich 10:51

Now, I appreciate if you upload to a distro that's when.

Marc 10:55

It. So it might be. Too soon to have that

Rich 10:57

That information, but

Marc 10:58

already got it, if you are

Rich 10:59

if you're

Marc 11:00

getting

Rich 11:00

getting that,

Marc 11:00

through PPL over in the UK for example, then great. yeah,

Rich 11:05

yeah, any

Marc 11:06

like that just helps.

Rich 11:08

information.

Marc 11:09

at the beginning and the end of the file leave space, leave some dead air. That way I can top and tail it nicely. Don't just have it banged if you come in straight away with a load of music. not room for me there really to put a three millisecond gap, which I'm gonna need. so that,

Rich 11:27

That, that would be my other.

Marc 11:28

it's like I say,

Rich 11:28

Like I said, it's a bit dry,

Marc 11:30

but

Rich 11:30

but if an engineer asks for information,

Marc 11:33

with it, I would say.

Justin 11:34

I hear all of that and I'm like I agree so fervently and I'm like, it's not dry at all to me.'cause I'm like, I'm in that world. And it totally makes sense that having those details just makes your job easier and it reduces the back and forth. Like to your point, yes, there's gonna be some conversation and stuff, but let's minimize that and mitigate that as much as possible. And one clarifying question for me, like. In terms of peaks and stuff. So should people approach that with like automation or just checking the levels? Like do you have any recommendations about how they should approach, like adjusting those peaks when they find them?

Marc 12:11

definitely.

Rich 12:12

So

Marc 12:12

automation's a good

Rich 12:13

good

Marc 12:14

'Cause you

Rich 12:14

one might have

Marc 12:15

a, let's say you've got a drop or you're going the other

Rich 12:19

Side of a drop,

Marc 12:20

then you've just got a buildup of energy. You've got a bass drum, you've got your kick drum, you've got bass, you might have a guitar coming in at the same time. You've just got that, that buildup of energy. So in there you could use some automation, you could bring down the level of one of those instruments. That is with that

Rich 12:35

that energy

Marc 12:36

there. Or you could drop it out altogether, for example. but

Rich 12:40

build when it comes to things like random snare hit or it might crash or

Marc 12:44

I'm using drum

Rich 12:44

brunt it.

Marc 12:45

normally it is drums. Occasionally you get a

Rich 12:47

Vocal, but

Marc 12:48

it's been mixed correctly, you'd like to think there won't be some wild vocal. But if there is, then I would say you need to go back and do some, some clip gain on that vocal or address it with some compression or something. Or maybe

Rich 12:57

maybe even

Marc 12:58

or a limiter on it. If you are, if it's

Rich 13:00

stick that wild.

Marc 13:01

But yeah,

Rich 13:01

Yeah. More often than not, I would say

Marc 13:03

probably automation or just, maybe you've just got too much going on in that particular frequency range. If it's kick in bass, you might wanna try using some eq. Maybe you've just got too much in your low frequencies. Maybe you need to scoop a bit out of the bass or out of the kick drum, just so it's not building up so much. The trick

Rich 13:22

Trick there, or rather the challenged there

Marc 13:25

With more amateur mixes, I would say is that sometimes

Rich 13:30

that.

Marc 13:30

to your listening environment not being conducive to being able to hear those frequencies specifically in the low frequency range. if you are monitoring and you haven't got, let's say, a sub really does

Rich 13:42

Does help

Marc 13:43

if you live, if you've got neighbors. if, uh, they're not gonna appreciate you

Rich 13:48

you

Marc 13:48

just on

Rich 13:49

on loop

Marc 13:51

that

Rich 13:51

that low frequency

Marc 13:52

Boom, over and

Rich 13:53

over and over again.

Marc 13:54

not appreciate that. So that's where

Rich 13:56

That's where headphones can come in

Marc 13:57

also things like

Rich 13:58

like total.

Marc 13:58

from Izotope, where you can go in and you can vis visually, you can see where there's a frequency buildup and use that as a reference tool. Obviously, world, we wanna be using our ears however,

Rich 14:09

However, sometimes

Marc 14:11

For example, you live in a block of flats. It's one

Rich 14:14

one o'clock working.

Marc 14:16

frequencies. You probably don't want your sub everybody up. I

Rich 14:20

I certainly,

Marc 14:21

be your neighbor if that were the case. So little things like that. Yeah.

Rich 14:25

yeah.

Marc 14:25

in short, to answer your question, I would use things like automation most definitely, and also consider your sound choices.

Justin 14:34

Mm-hmm.

Marc 14:34

Are competing with one another. you got a bass and a kick that are operating primarily in the same frequency range with the, with that fundamental frequency of the kick and the bass, you might wanna scoop a bit out of one, just so you're making space, so you haven't got that frequency buildup.

Justin 14:50

Yeah. Awesome. Th thank you for that. That was really great insight. I appreciate it.

Marc 14:55

My

Rich 14:56

So Marc, many artists are tempted to master their own tracks. In your view, uh, when does it make sense to bring in a mastering engineer instead of self mastering? And to add to that. What do you think about all of this AI mastering stuff that's coming out, all these AI mastering tools, um, like I know Logic has built in mastering tools. You also have sites like, I don't know if you've ever seen e mastered things like that. Do you, what are your thoughts on that and do you have any concerns with, uh, with the AI being incorporated into the process?

Marc 15:30

Yeah,

Rich 15:31

Yeah, I.

Marc 15:31

to answer the first one with regards to whether to reach out to a mastering engineer and I, I remember having this conversation'cause I've had other mastering engineers on my podcast

Rich 15:40

And

Marc 15:41

think it's a

Rich 15:42

really good.

Marc 15:42

learning opportunity if you can experience or spend

Rich 15:46

Spend some time

Marc 15:47

for someone to master one of your tracks, do your due due diligence and find someone who

Rich 15:52

works in your,

Marc 15:53

of music. And if you

Rich 15:55

if you

Marc 15:56

get

Rich 15:56

get

Marc 15:56

a call

Rich 15:57

on or

Marc 15:57

them to have a

Rich 15:57

have a

Marc 15:58

about your track, or even if

Rich 16:00

discussion via email, you just get back,

Marc 16:03

and just

Rich 16:04

learn what they do.

Marc 16:05

and have that

Rich 16:05

That feedback,

Marc 16:07

if you, as a mix engineer, have an

Rich 16:09

have an understanding of the mastering process

Marc 16:12

on, it will

Rich 16:14

greatly help

Marc 16:15

when it comes to

Rich 16:16

finalizing

Marc 16:16

because you know, as a

Rich 16:18

your mastering engine

Marc 16:19

you've got an awareness of what a

Rich 16:21

or mastering.

Marc 16:22

is. Is looking for in a deliverable of a mix. Not

Rich 16:26

Mm-hmm. I'm not saying, I'm not saying be an expert.

Marc 16:28

but at least if you've got, this goes back to what I was

Rich 16:30

That's why saying

Marc 16:31

those, those erroneous and stray peaks. If you've got an

Rich 16:33

got an awareness.

Marc 16:34

well, I need to be checking for those before I send it off to a mastering engineer. Little things like that will

Rich 16:38

That will help you so much.

Marc 16:40

the long term. And

Rich 16:41

And going back to what I said earlier about the, the

Marc 16:43

low frequency energy as well, which is a, which is a common one that we see either is either too much or it's too little because you can't hear it properly. And just having that awareness. And

Rich 16:54

in, in an ideal world, you can pick up the phone and say,

Marc 16:56

come and hang out

Rich 16:56

hang out with you.

Marc 16:57

and just learn a bit about mastery? Which some will be, some will love it, some will. I've done it. I remember when I was, when I was

Rich 17:02

I was studying and.

Marc 17:03

a, there was a great guy, uh, half old Mastery up in Glen Morgan, Donald Wheeling and I went and spent some time with him and it was brilliant. But others may be less so, but there are some great resources out there as well. Online courses that you can do, again, do your due diligence'cause there are a lot of courses, but do your due dili, do your due diligence and just find the one that's right for you. But I think it's really good to get an understanding of what it is and just basics of what you should be shooting for in terms of your mix for a deliverable to then send on to mastering. I think it's

Rich 17:35

I think it's have.

Marc 17:36

at it. Most definitely like yourself. There's, uh, again, go back to what I said there. There's plenty of tutorials online. I was just on YouTube just now and I saw immediately there was a thumbnail saying mastering made simple in Logic Pro. just little things like that

Rich 17:50

that.

Marc 17:50

have a look.

Rich 17:51

I was gonna say, take it with a pitch

Marc 17:53

that'd be the

Rich 17:53

that be the wrong,

Marc 17:54

but don't

Rich 17:55

don't take it.

Marc 17:56

Just spend

Rich 17:57

Spend as much time.

Marc 17:58

immerse yourself in all this various academia and learning, and just

Rich 18:01

Understand.

Marc 18:02

a real, there's a guy, on YouTube what's his name? Nick Lorenzo. be Nick and his YouTube channel. Go check it out. There is so much good information on there in terms of mastering, and he gets into the real scientific nitty gritty of it, which are highly encouraged. If you are interested in mastering, go and check that guy out. Really, really, really great stuff on there. And you'll get loads out of that. Loads out that, and he has a course as well, which you can go on and do if you want to. so I would Yeah,

Rich 18:32

Yeah, to answer that question

Marc 18:34

it a go yourself. But at

Rich 18:36

but

Marc 18:36

time, if you can and get some feedback on your mixes from other engineers, from mastering engineers, because it will help you in the long term. Most definitely. And there are

Rich 18:45

there are services

Marc 18:46

offer one

Rich 18:46

offer.

Marc 18:47

you can submit a mix for feedback. Do something like that from an established engineer, Don Morley, who was on my podcast you mentioned right at the beginning, he does it as well, mixed consultancy, and the more you do that and get that feedback, the more you'll improve quicker, essentially. So that

Rich 19:03

Yes.

Marc 19:04

the next part, which is about ai.

Rich 19:07

No. I gotta, I didn't feel, I wanna bring it down to mood or anything bringing it up ai. Right. You know, so I'm just, I just wanted to say that. Right. I know we, we tend to talk about AI a lot on our podcast'cause it's like, you know, the thing that's coming in, it's like this behemoth coming in and destroying a lot of conceptions of the way things are derived and the way we do things. So, but we always like to get people's opinion and have at it. Go with it.

Marc 19:31

Yeah, ai I,

Rich 19:32

i.

Marc 19:32

leverage ai as much as I can, but I leverage it in terms of doing tasks that I don't like to do, and that isn't music related. That is, for example I run the podcast and I use AI to help me with proofreading scripts or proofreading episode descriptions, or coming up with helping me come up, coming up with titles or thumbnail ideas, and that's how I use ai. Now when

Rich 19:57

Now when it comes to,

Marc 19:58

itself and audio there are

Rich 20:00

there are some great tools out,

Marc 20:01

Izotopes. Mastering

Rich 20:04

your system?

Marc 20:05

It's so good. And what I'd

Rich 20:07

I'd probably say it's this

Marc 20:08

if you are

Rich 20:09

who are mastering

Marc 20:10

music, you are

Rich 20:11

you are going down that route

Marc 20:13

use something like Izotope and use their mastering assistant. you are not. Experienced with mastering because again,

Rich 20:21

Again, this could be a. Statement and others may see,

Marc 20:24

different, but I think

Rich 20:25

I think you'll probably do harm then. Good.

Marc 20:27

and master it yourself. To begin with, I would probably start with

Rich 20:31

start with something like

Marc 20:32

assistant and AI like

Rich 20:34

Izotope, because

Marc 20:35

good if you do that. The great

Rich 20:39

the great thing about it's

Marc 20:40

you can then

Rich 20:41

then look and see

Marc 20:43

and then you can start to deconstruct that and think, okay,

Rich 20:45

else is saying that I need.

Marc 20:48

in my upper mids. I wonder why that

Rich 20:50

Why that is.

Marc 20:50

and address that in my mix and compare it to my reference. Okay.

Rich 20:53

Okay. It's saying I've got

Marc 20:54

to. I have a, a low shelf on anything below a hundred hertz. Why is that? Have I got too much going on down there? okay. It's got some wild

Rich 21:03

eye compression.

Marc 21:04

why that is.

Rich 21:05

Little things like that, you can start

Marc 21:07

and think, okay, well it's saying that

Rich 21:09

now. The caveat there is

Marc 21:11

it is only

Rich 21:12

only

Marc 21:13

in terms of ones and zeros. It's reacting.

Rich 21:16

Reacting is

Marc 21:17

else. statements basically to your music, so you don't want to

Rich 21:21

Don't want to take here.

Marc 21:23

If you're

Rich 21:24

It's gonna use something like Izotope.

Marc 21:27

Make

Rich 21:27

Make sure you

Marc 21:28

a suitable reference as well, so you're getting as close as you can what it is that you're trying to achieve. It does

Rich 21:34

does have some.

Marc 21:36

banks in there, but what they've done

Rich 21:38

They've done their is

Marc 21:39

if you, if you select a reference existing already

Rich 21:42

already in Izotope.

Marc 21:43

Like rock, that's

Rich 21:45

That's just an average of rock.

Marc 21:46

have been chucked into it basically. then it's

Rich 21:49

Then it's gonna

Marc 21:50

at, it's gonna assess and

Rich 21:51

and analyze.

Marc 21:53

assess and analyze it against an average. Of those songs that have been chucked into it. So

Rich 21:59

wherever you can use your

Marc 22:01

'cause you can chuck your own reference tracks in there. And

Rich 22:04

and

Marc 22:06

also,

Rich 22:06

so again.

Marc 22:07

make sure you just don't, just take its word for it, deconstruct it. And also just because it does something doesn't mean you have to use it.

Rich 22:14

Yeah.

Marc 22:14

mean you have to use it,

Rich 22:16

As with all of it, right? With everything at any point, it's a creative process, all of this, right?

Marc 22:20

A hundred percent. And the same with online ones. Now, I've

Rich 22:23

I've.

Marc 22:24

admittedly, I've never used an online one

Rich 22:26

Yeah, some of the, some of the distributors have it built in, uh, that I noticed. And then you got like, eMastered I think was one of the ones I saw.

Marc 22:33

Now I know DistroKid got one, and, uh, I use DistroKid as my platform for distributing my own music. And then it

Rich 22:40

always does that.

Marc 22:41

you upload it and then it'll play what, what it thinks it should sound like. And I'm like,

Rich 22:45

After you got done doing all that work, I love it. Yeah. It's a,

Marc 22:49

I'm not sure about that. I

Rich 22:51

I remember

Marc 22:52

I was

Rich 22:52

I was speaking to you

Marc 22:53

Winer on my, on my podcast, and he said it's, it comes

Rich 22:56

hands down's, ultimate uh, legacy versus

Marc 22:58

something out there. So if you want his,

Rich 23:00

his

Marc 23:01

was if you want something that's gonna last

Rich 23:02

lasted test.

Marc 23:04

when you

Rich 23:04

when you wanted that

Marc 23:06

Physical, that person, that

Rich 23:07

mastering

Marc 23:08

involved and

Rich 23:09

into that relationship.

Marc 23:10

and forth. But I think the AI Mastering assistance are great. If you want to get an overall perception of what. your mix could sound like, overall I think with ai, use it to your advantage, but I wouldn't necessarily rely on that, that's what I would say. And nothing is gonna be the human element. creativity, those Happy

Rich 23:34

Happy accident.

Marc 23:34

get where you move something you accidentally chop a loop in half, or you accidentally put a fade on something and you're like, actually, ooh, I actually like that. Or you think, actually, what,

Rich 23:46

Well, I like having this.

Marc 23:47

extra low end, even though AI

Rich 23:50

AI says it should be.

Marc 23:51

it, so I'm gonna

Rich 23:53

Leave it in there.

Marc 23:53

gonna get that with AI unless further down the line

Justin 23:57

Yeah.

Marc 23:58

more sentient and.

Justin 24:00

I like that. I think what it makes me think about is agency. So you, you risk giving up your agency just going click and then that's it, that's the master. And throwing up your hands. And so I like where your, your perspective is in that. It's about using it as a tool, using it as a reference, but not necessarily just. Clicking a button and calling it done. It certainly offers a lot of convenience. I mean, that's kind of its whole reason for being. But I think continuing to stay engaged as a human, you know, using the ears on your head, um, and not just your eyeballs. I mean, it's so critical and mixing with all of these really awesome tools that are highly visual. Those are great, but it's not everything. And so yeah, I, I love that perspective.

Marc 24:47

I think Add to that as well. I dunno about

Rich 24:50

About you guys?

Marc 24:51

I can quickly out when something is heavily relying on ai and, um, I had, uh, I've got a playlist and I remember somebody submitted some music to that playlist and I was listening to it and I was just like, you could, the, the lyrics, The, the, the vocal, the structure of the song. The sound of it. And I was like this is clearly it. And then I went on

Rich 25:14

On Spotify.

Marc 25:14

it was literally, the artwork was AI as well. And they were

Rich 25:17

Were upfront saying

Marc 25:19

But I think at

Rich 25:20

big. Otherwise

Marc 25:21

you'll quickly be able to pick it out as well and you'll, you, I think if you rely on

Rich 25:25

we're on it too much.

Marc 25:26

outside of

Rich 25:27

of AI assisted

Marc 25:28

you will just fall into a bucket of mediocrity, if not underneath less than mediocre, to be honest. If you, if Because we

Rich 25:34

man, love creativity. We love innovation.

Marc 25:37

and We.

Rich 25:37

We.

Marc 25:38

to things that peak our interest

Rich 25:39

music is an, is an exclusively human thing. I mean, it always like boggles my mind that one of the first big innovations in AI is all of this music stuff that they're coming up with. It's like, come on, get rid of all the boring stuff, sorting of data in some office or something. Why

Justin 25:56

Yeah. Scheduling my dentist appointment,

Rich 25:58

yes.

Justin 25:59

stuff like that, that like, mundane. Yeah. But it,

Marc 26:04

are.

Rich 26:04

why are.

Marc 26:04

to take away the, the element that we love? Like creative element, you know, why are

Rich 26:08

Yeah,

Justin 26:08

Yeah,

Marc 26:09

it A.

Rich 26:10

but I think it's that love for it that probably made people jump to creating that kind of technology for it, because the person who's at home who doesn't know how to do any of these things, like these specialized skills like mixing and mastering and, or even singing or playing an instrument, that's probably why those tools were created. For. People to be able to do those things quickly and to have the barrier to entry being really low. But what does it do in the big picture? Who knows?

Marc 26:41

There. There was actually one thing that I did like, and I saw this earlier and I was listening to another podcast, a music production podcast, and I dunno if you've heard of it. It's called Co-Producer. I haven't used it yet, and I actually saw an ad. for this. And as an individual, they were working on a loop and then they wanted a particular sound of or vibe, and they went into this co-producer, this, this plugin. you, you put in there what you want and then you prompt it what you want. So it could be like funky house piano. And then it will go through its sound bank, its sound library, and then it will pick out some loops that match what it

Rich 27:17

what

Marc 27:18

for. So it will match it in terms of you put in the key. It'll automatically, uh, tempo

Rich 27:22

tempo

Marc 27:23

as

Rich 27:23

as

Marc 27:23

Time

Rich 27:23

And also

Marc 27:24

it will then follow your prompt for those, that funky house key, those funky house keys. And then it will come up with a list of various

Rich 27:31

samples

Marc 27:31

could use. And I thought that was

Rich 27:32

that was quite.

Marc 27:34

that.

Rich 27:35

That expedites the process.

Marc 27:37

I think. but then you get

Rich 27:39

Then you get into the argument.

Marc 27:41

Are your songs just samples put into a track? Is any of it actually played by you? But that's a whole nother discussion. I'm all for using samples. I use samples myself. When I'm stuck for ideas. I pull them in, pull them apart, time, stretch them do what I need to them. But I thought that was quite good. it's kind of like

Rich 27:58

Like having a producer.

Marc 27:59

with you. Not having to pay thousands, you're only paying 9, 9, 9 a month rather Thousands to have a producer sat next to you. So I thought that was quite a good use of artificial intelligence.

Rich 28:11

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Justin 28:12

that's cool. Following this thread of technology and sort of the disruption it can have one thing technology can do, is it, it. Puts us in this like endless tweaking cycle, right? Because we have so many plugins, we have so many features that allow us to just endlessly tweak a, a song or, or sometimes a snare drum, And just going, uh, ad nauseum on, Whatever element of the song that certainly can happen with this abundance of technology. And so what do you think is the biggest mindset shift an artist needs to finish a track confidently?

Marc 28:49

For me it's good. Is good enough. I find, because as creators we are perfectionists, right? I dunno about you guys, but you are, you are, and you are

Justin 28:56

Oh yeah. I.

Marc 28:57

critics as well. I don't think I've ever released a track. my own that I haven't released it and thought vocal, I could have done more there. I could have done something to

Rich 29:07

Yeah.

Marc 29:07

that kick that bass, just not quite hitting the way I want. But you've gotta know where to draw the line because you get that to that point of diminishing returns. And for me, I find if I go. With mixed revisions. For example, if I end up getting to around four or five, I'm then entering the point of diminishing returns and I'm, I'm then doing that thing, what you mentioned then, and Justin, which is, I'm tweaking a snare, or I'm automating something up at DB or 2 ultimately. If you've got a vocal and you're thinking, oh, I'm just gonna drop it by half a db, you know that. Does anyone else, does? Anyone else maybe someone who's like critically listening in a, you gotta think who the consumer is as well. How do we listen to music? I think I read or heard a statistic the other day, which was, I don't wanna say 90%, but it was certainly a high percentage of people listening to music via the speaker on their phone,

Rich 29:53

Fine.

Justin 29:54

Yeah. Yeah.

Rich 29:55

yes,

Marc 29:55

you gotta think

Rich 29:55

yes.

Marc 29:56

who, your who, your. Your audiences, because are you

Rich 30:00

Are you making music?

Marc 30:01

audio engineers? Probably not.

Rich 30:03

should be a whole platform just for that, where we can just

Marc 30:06

Whoa. That's

Justin 30:07

Mastered for audio engineers.

Marc 30:09

that, that's like title and, and is it Cobols or KBOs, whatever it's called, where you can go on there, you can listen to it in high Fidelity. My mates always sending me tracks on there and I'm like, mate, I listen to it on

Rich 30:19

Spotify, like three.

Marc 30:20

kbps, you know, I've

Justin 30:21

Yeah.

Marc 30:22

ing to it

Justin 30:22

Yeah.

Marc 30:23

But going back

Rich 30:24

Going

Marc 30:24

mindset shift, it's, Yeah,

Rich 30:27

yeah, good

Marc 30:27

is Good enough for me. I find like you gotta get to the point,

Rich 30:31

set. Set a time limit

Marc 30:32

a deadline for when you want that track done. What

Rich 30:36

What I tend to do now is to keep.

Marc 30:38

when I'm releasing my own stuff, is I'll release on social media when that track's gonna be launched, and then that's it. I've gotta stick to that then, and I, I mean, I don't have to, I'm not saying I'm, my, my

Rich 30:49

Following

Marc 30:50

It's not vast, but

Rich 30:51

but psychologically.

Marc 30:53

it, it's out there now. to, so I need to know that mix is gonna be done at least four weeks before that time that it's gonna go live on streaming platforms.'cause I've then gotta get it mastered as well. So I need to allow

Justin 31:04

Yeah.

Marc 31:04

to be mastered too. So setting deadlines certainly does help. And I think also, I did an episode on this recently to bring

Rich 31:13

Bring down.

Marc 31:14

iteration process. I think that's where we often fall foul is mix iterations. And I've had this

Rich 31:20

We've had this conversation.

Marc 31:21

on my podcast when I've done coaching episodes. When they say they've done sort of like 20, 20 iterations of a mix, start with

Rich 31:29

with a

Marc 31:29

a

Rich 31:30

balance of your mix.

Marc 31:30

what we call a static mix and that all

Rich 31:32

Now all that involves is

Marc 31:34

pan. Get it,

Rich 31:35

get it. Get your mix.

Marc 31:36

whereby you've done no other processing but level. And that's not processing, but you've got it

Rich 31:41

Level,

Marc 31:41

everything sitting where kind of nicely, where it needs to be. And then pan and then

Rich 31:45

then start your,

Marc 31:46

there. Because if you do that, I find my experience is that your amount of mix iterations dramatically reduces.

Rich 31:54

I like that

Marc 31:55

I, it it

Rich 31:55

It works.

Marc 31:57

really does.'cause I spoke to Nate Kelms of the Sound Discussion podcast about this and his philosophy was that if you start with a

Rich 32:05

A static

Marc 32:06

do all your processing, if you to take away that

Rich 32:08

Weigh that process.

Marc 32:09

should still stand on its own to a decent level Just doing that because you're

Rich 32:14

Just set yourself up for success.

Marc 32:16

Then. It makes it

Rich 32:17

That's great.

Marc 32:17

You're

Rich 32:18

You're not having to do

Marc 32:19

movements with faders. You're not having to To automate that by

Rich 32:21

what?

Marc 32:22

It's

Rich 32:22

Like

Marc 32:23

DB here and there, wherever you need to do it.'Cause the further

Rich 32:26

further down you go. Logic.

Marc 32:27

if it's the same with other daws. The further you move that fader down, the more movement it requires to make a noticeable difference, which is quite interesting.

Rich 32:34

So you talked about for yourself, what you do for yourself to break that cycle and get it out there. What happens when you have a client, who has some self-doubt or hesitancy in releasing, after the project is wrapped up? How do you avoid that situation? Is the good, good enough principal still stand there? How do you convince them?

Marc 32:53

Yeah, it's a tricky one

Rich 32:54

Because again,

Marc 32:54

that, because again, you, some

Rich 32:57

some people are more self-critical,

Marc 32:59

think of themselves and, and lack

Rich 33:00

like that

Marc 33:01

Confidence in their own convictions of what it is. they've

Rich 33:04

decided on, but

Marc 33:06

ultimately I just remind them.

Rich 33:07

music. It's your vision

Marc 33:08

you want it to be ultimately. And

Rich 33:10

ultimately an audience.

Marc 33:11

there for it somewhere. And the another

Rich 33:13

Another key thing to

Marc 33:14

with those individuals

Rich 33:15

do,

Marc 33:15

not

Rich 33:16

not compare yourself to others.

Marc 33:17

think that's, that's

Rich 33:18

That's

Marc 33:18

problem. media is

Rich 33:20

media is great. Getting

Marc 33:21

your brand out there,

Rich 33:22

out there.

Marc 33:23

communicating, building audience, and we need it. We need it for podcasting, we need it for music and, and all this and whatnot. But it's so easy to fall into that trap of com of

Rich 33:32

Competition.

Marc 33:33

at others and thinking they're there. Why Am I

Rich 33:36

Am I there?

Marc 33:36

to be where they are. And then you can just, that self-doubt just creeps in then. So

Rich 33:40

So it's easy for me to say not

Marc 33:42

yourself to others.'cause inherently we

Rich 33:44

worth.

Marc 33:45

Just think

Rich 33:46

I think they were once in the

Marc 33:47

you are now and it just takes time. Takes time and it's time and

Rich 33:51

position, effort, and

Marc 33:51

that creative muscle. The more you do, the more music you put out, the better you're gonna get. You're gonna

Rich 33:56

act, learn every time.

Marc 33:57

Yeah,

Rich 33:57

Yeah, you might not be.

Marc 33:58

be slightly reticent about putting this one out there because you don't like your vocal in this one here, but you can take that and learn from that and move forward, and in the next one you can do something different. Okay. I did that in that particular release. Didn't like it. I've gone

Rich 34:10

Gone away and I've learned how to.

Marc 34:11

I've learned how to record my vocal properly. I've learned how to prepare. To sing Like, uh, we did on, we discussed that on our, on my podcast

Rich 34:19

Yes. Yes.

Marc 34:19

Rich. Yeah, just be, just know that, okay, you might not be happy with it now, but the more you do, the more you put out there, the better you're gonna get. that's what

Rich 34:28

That's what I would do I'm a very positive person.

Marc 34:31

and I think surround

Rich 34:33

Round yourself with,

Marc 34:34

What's the statistic? You are, like

Rich 34:36

like I

Marc 34:37

The five closest people to you. I think there's something like

Rich 34:39

said,

Marc 34:41

and just make sure those people are very positive as well, and you'll find it'll rub off on you too, is no silver bullet

Rich 34:46

there is no silver.

Marc 34:47

I find

Rich 34:47

Yeah.

Marc 34:49

just know that you're gonna get better. The more you do it, the better you'll get.

Justin 34:53

I often like to remember that perfection is the enemy of creativity, and so if your focus is on being perfect, you're never going to move forward, you have to take. Some risk in any endeavor, musical or otherwise. And so that's how you learn. I think, that's something you were touching on is like, this is how you grow and you learn is

Marc 35:13

Yeah.

Justin 35:13

do it.

Marc 35:14

Yeah, a

Rich 35:15

Yeah, that.

Justin 35:16

Yes.

Marc 35:18

We were often fed this and it was, uh, Carol's work, which is, I'm, I can't do that yet. The end, it's that growth mindset

Justin 35:27

Love that.

Marc 35:27

uh, and that resilience that you need to build within yourself. Because with music, in the music industry there's a lot. As soon as you put

Rich 35:35

Put yourself out that you are.

Marc 35:36

yourself up to people. listening to your music and then commenting on it, you take it with a pinch of salt.

Justin 35:43

absolutely. And you know, speaking of that sort of growth mindset when you think about, your journey, what were some of your biggest obstacles in learning how to mix and master, music, and how did you overcome them?

Marc 35:57

Yeah.

Rich 35:57

Yeah, I think for me,

Marc 35:59

I, it was the wealth

Rich 36:01

wealth of

Marc 36:02

I. And this kind of ties into what I was saying earlier about doing your due diligence in terms of

Rich 36:07

information

Marc 36:07

you're consuming to push yourself forward.'cause there's a lot

Rich 36:11

a lot out.

Marc 36:12

If you go on YouTube there, there are so many engineers. Hands in the air, do it myself as a podcaster, talking about it, offering information. So do your due diligence, reach out to others that you are. Other engineers and just get, um, get sign,

Rich 36:29

Time get signed

Marc 36:30

to stuff. But basically for

Rich 36:31

for me of that

Marc 36:32

was

Rich 36:32

it was

Marc 36:32

knowing to

Rich 36:33

where.

Marc 36:34

So I

Rich 36:34

So I took the

Marc 36:35

the idea, or I took the route of academia. So I went and enrolled. did an evening course first, and and then I did a foundation degree. Then I did

Rich 36:44

in a.

Marc 36:44

fully fledged degree in music production, and then I did a master's degree. In music production and, uh, and audio engineering as rich mentioned right at the beginning. I

Rich 36:54

I kind of

Marc 36:55

that learning process in an academic realm, which was

Rich 36:58

great.

Marc 36:59

I had a

Rich 36:59

I had a great time doing

Marc 37:01

loved it.

Rich 37:01

it.

Marc 37:01

some great experiences, used some amazing equipment, also got sort of spend some time in. Recording studios with engineers, with mastering engineers as well, through that experience. So that

Rich 37:14

That really did help me.

Marc 37:15

'cause my

Rich 37:16

My biggest problem.

Marc 37:16

begin with. I remember the, the whole reason I got into sort of music production, uh, I was in the band and we were recording an album and I was sat watching the engineer and I was thinking to myself, I wanna know. Why he's doing that? Why is he doing those movements? What's going on here? And then I thought to myself, well, how am I gonna do that? that's why I went down the academic route so that the, the first obstacle was like, where do I start? Where do I begin? And for me, the academic route was the route for me to do that. For others it might be, they become an intern, a recording studio or something along the lines, along those lines, which is great. If you can do it, then do it, which will be fantastic. Um.'cause you'll get that

Rich 37:57

that every day

Marc 37:57

real world experience rather than when I was

Rich 37:59

when I was doing the degree, it was great, but sometimes.

Marc 38:02

writing some essays and I was like, why am I writing an essay on this particular book? Um, I wanna be, I wanna be recording and making music. Why am I writing an essay on this? So I suppose you've gotta pick and choose your battles with that. But yeah, that, that was my biggest obstacle. And yeah, I know when to start and I, I did a poll on a, on a podcast episode recently on Spotify one, I can't remember the exact poll itself, but that phrase, knowing where to start, where to begin was the number one, pain points. For the listeners for that particular episode. I can't remember what the others, others were, but uh, it's, yeah, it's a tricky one for me. I think you either go down the academic route or you become an intern if you wanna get into music production ultimately.

Rich 38:43

Marc you're a font of knowledge. there's so many other questions, uh, that we'd want to get into the weeds with you, and perhaps we will on future episodes. I. But now we've reached the portion of the episode where we have our lightning round. We like to do this with our guests, so we'll ask you a series of questions and, uh, just, uh, give us the first thing that comes to mind. go ahead Justin. If you wanna start it

Justin 39:09

All right, I'll kick us off. So what's the most memorable production gig that comes to mind for you?

Marc 39:16

Uh, can it be a negative or can it be

Rich 39:18

Could it be

Justin 39:18

Oh, a Anything

Rich 39:20

most memorable?

Marc 39:21

Yeah. Yeah.

Justin 39:21

memorable? Yeah.

Rich 39:23

As

Marc 39:23

soon as you

Rich 39:23

soon as you said that?

Marc 39:23

the most

Rich 39:24

The most memorable one that came into my head, and I've said this on my side,

Marc 39:27

I

Rich 39:27

I think I mentioned this

Marc 39:28

when I was speaking to one of you

Rich 39:29

you guys, when I was working in the studio. Oh no,

Marc 39:31

I wasted beer all over the

Rich 39:32

the beer, yes.

Justin 39:33

Yeah.

Marc 39:34

I won't do that again. Uh, that

Rich 39:36

Sticks.

Marc 39:37

I mean, uh, it was, I was sat there. I had an Audi console band behind me tools rig on the

Rich 39:44

Right. Had

Marc 39:45

count of fosters on the side, and I just swung round

Rich 39:48

Aung round in my chair

Marc 39:50

back

Rich 39:50

back and knocked over,

Marc 39:51

and it just died.

Rich 39:52

oh,

Marc 39:53

and it

Rich 39:54

it wasn't my studio.

Marc 39:55

was dry. It was dry high

Rich 39:56

And

Marc 39:56

just like,

Rich 39:57

I was like, Okay.

Marc 39:58

And didn't know what to do. Came back the next

Rich 40:00

The,

Marc 40:01

it was all, it was all working fine again, but that

Justin 40:03

Oh my God.

Marc 40:03

for one group, fader, but that, that was, that sticks in my head

Rich 40:07

and what I learned from.

Marc 40:08

An audience listing, if you're in a studio, drinks on the floor,

Rich 40:12

Oh man. I'm still haunted by that. I think that

Justin 40:14

Oh God.

Rich 40:15

we did together. Yeah.

Justin 40:16

Yeah. I remember. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Marc 40:19

uh, I, we went to Nando's. I was like, well, the only thing we can do is go to Nando. I dunno if you get Nandos over in the States, but basically it's just fri, it's just chicken. And we went there and had some

Rich 40:29

Add some food and I a glass, a big glass of wine.

Marc 40:31

and

Justin 40:31

Yeah.

Marc 40:32

as well.

Justin 40:33

Yeah.

Rich 40:35

what's one piece of equipment or plugin you couldn't live without?

Marc 40:38

my headphones, these headphones, these audio technic, uh, a THM fifties. I've had them for, what is it, 2025. I've had them for 30, maybe 12 years. And apart from the band at the top, losing its fabricy stuff they are rock solid. So it These, for the podcast when it comes to editing everything, mixing and

Rich 40:59

Nice.

Justin 41:00

Marc, what is your desert island? Album,

Marc 41:03

What springs to the right mind straight away. Oh, what is the, there's a typo negative album. Ah, the fact, I can't

Rich 41:09

I can't remember the name. Probably

Marc 41:10

be that, but there's a typo. Negative album.

Rich 41:12

October Rust maybe. Yes.

Marc 41:14

Yes.

Rich 41:15

great album. I love that album.

Marc 41:17

that's

Rich 41:17

That's got, um, love You to

Marc 41:18

You to Death,

Rich 41:19

Death, oh yes. Oh yes.

Marc 41:20

that one.

Rich 41:21

It's a great album. Oh, I love

Marc 41:22

I love typo. Negative. Absolutely.

Justin 41:24

spirits, these two.

Rich 41:25

man. We're gonna have a whole episode on typo Negative.

Justin 41:28

Yeah.

Marc 41:28

should do it, man. Oh, I'd love it. Every time my mates and I get

Rich 41:32

Get together without barbecue.

Marc 41:34

out comes the vinyl bang, typo, negative comes on and then we

Rich 41:36

Oh,

Marc 41:37

town and we'll find a

Rich 41:38

jukebox

Marc 41:39

negative on

Rich 41:40

again, everywhere we go.

Marc 41:41

Love it.

Rich 41:42

it. that's awesome, man. that's really awesome. if you're not making music, what do you prefer to be doing?

Marc 41:49

I

Rich 41:49

I like to paddleboard.

Marc 41:50

So do a fair bit of that. I live near the coast, quite lucky in that respect. Get to the coast quite quick.

Justin 41:55

what piece of advice would you give someone who's starting out? With mixing and mastering whatever track they've decided on.

Marc 42:04

reach

Rich 42:04

reach out to.

Marc 42:05

engineers in their sphere of music and just get feedback. People, we'll be very supportive. If you are. Say

Rich 42:16

Say you, you're.

Marc 42:17

genre, you're in the metal genre, you're in synth pop, you're in pop music. Just build and reach out to other artists, producers, mix engineers who work in that sphere build a community, a network that you can bounce and forth with because working in a silo, working in. An individual and shutting yourself off, you, you want that back and forth. Send it out to them for feedback. What'd you think of this snail? What'd you think of this mix in general? that would be

Rich 42:46

That would be.

Marc 42:46

one is just have individuals that you can bounce ideas back and forth with, and when you, significantly help you, progress quicker.

Rich 42:56

last question. What do you hope the listeners will walk away with after listening to your music or your podcast? You can decide what you wanna focus on or both.

Marc 43:06

yeah. What

Rich 43:06

Yeah, yeah.

Marc 43:06

to?

Rich 43:07

I think.

Marc 43:07

me it's the case of Don't

Rich 43:10

Don't be worried because I

Marc 43:11

I tailor it.

Rich 43:12

it.

Marc 43:13

Beginners intermediates. There are

Rich 43:14

there are some very technical.

Marc 43:15

on the podcast as well, but the

Rich 43:18

The idea is

Marc 43:18

start, we all have to start somewhere,

Rich 43:20

that

Marc 43:21

and if you put that

Rich 43:21

put that effort in.

Marc 43:23

you exercise that creative muscle and you just establish that routine. Don't

Rich 43:27

Don't wait for motivation

Marc 43:28

to strike. The only way you're gonna

Rich 43:30

to get motivation

Marc 43:31

Is if you start to work and then the motivation will happen. For me, that's the way,

Rich 43:35

What, that's the way I work and that's the way

Marc 43:36

it. If you wait for

Rich 43:37

to motivate. Probably not gonna happen,

Marc 43:39

You gotta make

Rich 43:40

but make that motivate

Marc 43:41

So for me,

Rich 43:41

me. It's the case of with

Marc 43:43

and with the music I have is everyone has to start somewhere. Don't be

Rich 43:46

don't be daunted by,

Marc 43:47

Don't. Be, don't

Rich 43:48

don't worry about the, the.

Marc 43:50

of other people's music, just focus on

Rich 43:52

on you.

Marc 43:52

you will get better. The more you do it, the more you exercise that

Rich 43:58

Greater muscle

Marc 43:58

more you make mistakes, you learn from

Rich 44:00

are mistakes,

Marc 44:01

way to learn. It's the best way to learn. so

Rich 44:04

so that's why I try and get.

Marc 44:05

with the is like, just put that effort in and you'll get better ultimately.

Justin 44:11

I love that, that's such a great mindset. That brings us to the end of our episode and the end of our conversation with Marc and Marc. I can't thank you enough for coming onto our podcast and sharing, uh, your wealth of knowledge To use richest term. You are indeed a font of knowledge that.

Marc 44:30

inviting me on. It's been a pleasure.

Justin 44:32

And is there anything that you wanted to mention or promote that you have going on, uh, that you want listeners to know about?

Rich 44:38

Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, one thing I'm doubling down uh, a play is

Marc 44:44

So it's

Rich 44:44

my

Marc 44:45

as you like, but you can sign up

Rich 44:47

sign up to my newsletter

Marc 44:48

it's just full of. Tips and tricks to help with music production, uh, not just

Rich 44:52

not just from me.

Marc 44:53

engineers as well. Links to other really useful resources, other really other podcasts if I haven't had your episodes in there a few times as well. So it's just a weekly newsletter of useful stuff to help you kick on and create that music that is radio

Rich 45:08

ready and play.

Marc 45:09

So, uh, sign up

Rich 45:10

Sign up for that. I'll send you a link and then you can

Marc 45:12

episode description and

Rich 45:13

turn.

Justin 45:14

Absolutely.

Rich 45:14

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Marc 45:15

won't

Rich 45:16

You won't get, it's not spam, you won't get,

Marc 45:17

by me. It's just once a week you'll get an email with some useful stuff. And if you wanna

Rich 45:22

you wanna check out inside the mix?

Marc 45:23

I

Rich 45:24

I would start with.

Marc 45:26

Obviously you start with the episodes with, uh, Justin and Rich episodes 1 9 1. I think it said it wasn't

Justin 45:31

Yeah.

Marc 45:32

I

Justin 45:32

Yeah.

Rich 45:32

so.

Marc 45:33

something like that. It was, yeah. Uh, then

Rich 45:36

Then check episode 175.

Marc 45:37

Which is what's

Rich 45:39

What's the secret?

Marc 45:40

without muddiness. There

Rich 45:42

Oh,

Justin 45:42

Excellent. Thank you again, Marc. We really appreciate having you here. And for everyone out there listening, thank you so much. Uh, we will put all of these different links in our show description so you can explore and check these things out. And with that, we'll catch you on the next episode. Bye for now.

Rich 46:01

Bye-bye.