Hello. Welcome everybody. To the Magic of Childhood, I'm Regan Fulton, and I am here today with our wonderful guest, Linda McGirk. She is one of my favorite authors. If you've heard me talk before about no such thing as bad weather, it is one of my favorite books and she has a new book coming out called The Open Air.
So I'm gonna let Linda introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about her, and then we will jump into the conversation.
Hi Reagan. So good to be here. Really happy. We've gotten to know each other through the Instagram webs. Yes. So yeah. I'm the author of, There's no such thing as Bad Weather, as you mentioned, and now the OpenAir Life journalist from the get go.
And now I just, I work as a writer. I've lived in the States for 15 years, but I was born and raised in Sweden and that's where I live now with my two daughters who are 11 and 14 now. They were just little when I wrote my first book, so it's crazy how they've grown up. But yeah, that's the short version of who I am.
I love being in the forest. That's my favorite favorite bio is the pine forest that, because that's where I grew up. So that's really made an imprint on me. I love it. I would say I am. I've been, as I'm reading your book, sitting here, planning my trip to Sweden because it's like all of these little, things in here.
I'm like, I need to be there Swedish. So I'm like, I'm just gonna, get a hold of that and be like, Yeah, that's why I'm going. But really , for some reason my book seem to have that effect on people. I actually, I get contacted by people every once in a while who are planning trips here either for vacation, but there's also been a few who've actually.
Up and moved to, to Sweden just for a year or permanent just to, because they've been inspired . I, it's not shock me at all. We will definitely you will be hearing from me at some point as we will come visit. Yeah. It is just such a beautiful country and more so I think, and and I think that the beauty of the philosophies and everything, You talk about in your books comes from so much of the connection to nature that the not of people have.
I think more so than the beauty of the country as you describe it, is the beauty of these philosophies. So talk to me about, and now I practiced saying it, and I'm not gonna say, I'm gonna let you say it first so I don't, Cause I can't pronounce anything, I can't even do the English words.
So pronounce the word for me of this beautiful philosophy that you speak of in the book, and then I'll I'll know I have to. So the word that makes everybody stumble is free lift sleeve. Yeah. Wasn't gonna do that, right? Free lift, sleep free sleeve. Yeah. Yeah. That's. I just call it Open Air Life.
Initially my plan was for the book to be titled Friluftsliv but the publisher was skeptical. They figured nobody's gonna, they're not gonna know how to say it, nobody's gonna remember it. It's just not a good idea. And I, in hindsight I know they were right. So I, I think the title turned out well after changing that.
Yeah. But so three friluftsliv to to explain that it's. It's a philosophy that goes back to the 1850s. It was that's when industrialization was really taking off. People were starting to move into the cities and they were starting to feel this sort of alienation with nature.
People who used to work in the fields were now stuck in the factories and and people are starting to. The crowds and the noise and pollution of the cities. And they had, they discovered they had this yearning for, getting back out to the countryside and back to nature.
That's where it started. And it started in the sort of upper classes and then it, as people were starting to get more time off, in the 20th century, they had more free time, then more and more people started practicing free of sleeve and. Basically what it is just it's a word to explain or this philosophy of spending time outside for personal wellness and to experience nature without any pressure to achieve or compete.
So it's just a simple. Simple, slow activities in nature usually nearby nature. In its simplest form, it could just be, going for a walk around your neighborhood typically doesn't require a lot of money. . So walking is the, like I said, the most common form of it, probably hiking, camping foraging for mushrooms and berries kayaking ice skating.
There's just all sorts of activities that sort of that are encompass in this in this term. Really more than a set of activities. I think it's, it is a whole philosophy with that explains, how we spend a way of spending meaningful time together. Either. With family or loved ones, but it's also something, of course, that you can enjoy on your own.
And yeah, that's I think that's the essence of it. It's a little different. It doesn't have an equivalent in the English language, just like higa. It doesn't translate well. I think the closest would be like outdoor recreation. But it is different because friluftsliv outdoor recreation could be any activity basically that you do outside for fun or friluftsliv
it is non-motorized, it's non-competitive. It doesn't involve sports. It's it comes with a very strong environmental ethos as well. So that goes with a, non-motorized as well. It's focused on activities that are environmentally sustainable, and it comes with that whole ethos of living simply and in a way that doesn't destroy the earth as well.
Yes, I say I love that and I love the, I think that it's, We don't only have not a word for this in the English language, but I think that the kind of sad part, but also beautiful part that we now get to learn from, you and from the Swedish culture is that we also don't have this as much Yeah.
In United States American culture that we don't practice it as much. Even, when I think. Outdoor recreation when you said that word, the first things that pop into my head were actually like tennis, soccer skiing popped into my head. Yeah. But. Sports things that are competition.
And I think that's one of the most beautiful things. That's one of the things that really popped out to me is the non-competitiveness of Yes. and how beautiful that is, that we are outside and just enjoying one another. And I think that is one of. My favorite parts of it personally.
That is, yeah, that is really key. We live in such a competitive society today and there's so much stress, in the workplace, and this sort of hustle culture, I think is also trickling down to our children. Absolutely. Like we're seeing it. At school, we're seeing it at preschool now. whole competitiveness and the whole getting ready for the next stage. Yeah. Yes. So I think this is a very good counter balance to that It's not about, squeezing in nature time as just another activity to do. Yeah. It's about actually having a lifestyle that revolves around being in nature and prioritizing that and understanding that this is, important and to little kids.
I, I'd say it's one of the most important things that you can provide a child in the early years. Absolutely. . I would say that was literally the next thing I was gonna mention is the lifestyle of it. Yeah. Versus, and I think that's something that I have been working towards and this really.
Even just reading it over the past couple of weeks has helped me like be like, Oh, this is what I want for my life and this is what, this thing that I haven't been able to put words to. This is the type of lifestyle I want. This is because I've been working towards getting back more towards that in my life.
But it's been in a way that's planned and this is the activity that we're gonna go do. We're gonna, we have to do this thing in order to you. I'm learning how to eco die and make prints and stuff. Yeah. And trying really hard to not make it something that I have to make money off of right away and things like that. Like things that are like, it's not productive. Yeah. I'm not going out and learning a skill or doing something in nature to only be productive. But just. To be, and so that's that. I really love about this. Yeah. You definitely don't have to have an agenda. And I get that people, a lot of people get hung up on that.
What do we do? What do we do? But that's not the most important part. The most important part is that you get outside, that's number one. And then what you do is almost like secondary. I think you know it all depends on your situation, where you are and what I, It's all about tuning into your local landscape and what does it afford you?
What is it that you can do easily where you live because that's the stuff that you're gonna do, the things that are easy and that, that don't require a lot of planning or equipment. Things that you can, and that's where the walking comes in. It's just so easy for a lot of people to just, go outside and walk.
Then with little kids, it's of course different. They're not always the most the best walkers. You just, it don't make it very far. You just have to have a different mindset with kids. But I've always had that attitude with my kids too. That okay. We're heading outside. And then we will, we'll just, we'll see what we wanna do once we get out there.
Yep. That's what I do, there are every day is we go out and I say, Where do we wanna go front back or do we wanna go for a hike? And then they choose and they lead. And so yeah, that's really, And of course, activities can be fun too. I think there, there's definitely. There's something about balance too, a lot, the kids love.
Like you were talking about eco dying or was it before, like it's always fun to discover things to do or doing like nature art and things like that. It's just a Yeah. Ba once again about finding balance and everything. You don't have to and knowing that you don't have to have the pressure of coming up with activities Yes.
That you don't have to that pressure. Cause that's what I get a lot of questions about. City dwellers urban areas and like, how do I get more in nature if I live in the city? I've got some nanny friends, some great friends who live in Chicago, New York City and are always asking me, and guys, if you're listening to this, make sure you read this because she's gonna share a couple little tips here, I'm sure.
But this goes, there's so much about how. It is unimportant to be out in the, out in the woods. Yeah. That being the open air life is not necessarily about, being out in the wilderness, being true that is untouched by humanity. But rather, Enjoying it and finding it where it is.
So can you talk a little bit about that? The discipline thing? Yeah. The guy in Stockholm who was measuring sound, I loved that little part. . Yeah. Yeah. So that is one of the fundamental ideas of fearlessly is that, It kind of redefines nature or what we, how we look at nature.
It, and it talks about being outside in the natural and cultural landscape. So that includes both the wild and the manmade. And because when we think of nature, we tend to think of wilderness, right? We tend to think of the vast. Untouched areas in the us mostly out west.
But the thing is today, like in this day and age, there are very few, if any, you could really easily argue that there are no areas. Left on this earth that are untouched by human activity. And as sad as that is what we have to deal with. There are areas that are more or less wild.
It's a spectrum really, but. , you can definitely have meaningful meetings or you can definitely experience nature in a meaningful way in the cities as well. And it's just about recognizing all the elements around us that are a part of nature and the fact that we too, are a part of nature.
It's not a, we tend to look. Nature as the other is something that is apart from ourselves, but in reality, humans too are a part of nature. So I think that dichotomy is , it's skewed from the GetGo. It really we too are a part of nature. And so when you go outside in, you're in the city.
The first thing you usually notice is the weather, right? That's part of nature. Is it windy? You can feel the wind on your cheeks, or maybe it's raining. You feel the raindrops on your forehead. And yeah just all sorts of everyday nature experiences that can be, that, that can put us in touch with the natural world too.
Yeah. And usually in the city, the parks is where you would get the most. The most profound nature experience is where you would get away from the hustle and bustle the most. I'm not gonna lie the more wild a place is the more restorative it is too.
But on an everyday basis, going to a park can definitely make a huge difference. Or like I said earlier, just walking around the neighborhood and just getting that sort of physical activity and being outside in the fresh air. It has huge benefits even if you're not in a wild space. Just the other day actual, or last weekend, my my youngest daughter and I, we we were camping.
Just 10 minutes from like one of the busiest airports in Sweden. I put it on my Instagram because I just, I thought it was, I just want, That's what I'm trying to show that you can do these really cool things and not be out, out in the wild. So we just we had to pick somebody up at the airport the next day, and I knew our only chance to fit this camping trip in over the weekend was to go someplace near the airport.
So yeah. Was it the most. Epic location that I've ever been to. No. Was it still worth it? Yes. , like I do it again in a heartbeat. It was it was definitely an interesting experience. We hiked for about 10 miles and we put up camp and then we saw about. 10 planes coming in over the course of the night coming in for landing.
And it was cool actually. Oh, talk about we're part of nature and even though it's not the untouched part, it's a different way to experience and experience the way we live in nature and the things humanity has done. And, I think that's important to remember that, we are nature too.
And while. To be responsible with it. We can also appreciate those brilliant things that humanity has done. And yeah, and I hope my book will raise awareness too around like city planning because that is so important too, that we actually build cities that are human friendly, and not just car friendly or, factory friendly, but cities that.
That, that can really speak to the, our, like bio, the biophilia in us the fact that we naturally gravitate towards green spaces and blue spaces because they have been so crucial to our evolution. They've provided us with water and food. And so we have this natural affinity towards natural elements like plants and trees.
And so it's really important that we fill our cities with green, Yeah, like green plants and water features and that we have. Opportunities to get outside in the cities too, like safe places to walk and ride bikes. That's really key. And and I think a lot of cities are starting to catch on, but it used to be that everything was just planned around the cars and it's still is in a lot of cities, especially in the US I think.
But I think I hope that some of that is starting to change. Yeah, I know in Cincinnati where I live, , our riverfront park in the past 10 years, they took it and it, this is industrial. There was Kroger plants and different plants that were right on the river for a long time because of the access to the river.
And in the past, like 10 years, they just finished the project. Recently they resorted all and it's now this beautiful, there's lots of open green space walking trails. A lot of beautiful gardens. There's native pollinator gardens and it's just a beautiful example of that, like a little pocket of nature within the big city.
Yeah. Yeah. Sounds, sounds great. I hope more and more cities are popping up around with those types of places too, but yeah, it was definitely intentional and very much planned that way. It's really important because. So much of the way our cities were planned and as we go back in and, update things, we're around the industrial revolution and Right.
Productivity, so that's really important too. Yeah. One thing. Okay. Another one thing that I wanted to talk about was is cuz I literally went out to the grocery store and bought a buy giant bag of Hershey's Kisses. Was is you talk about in the book about how, Kids especially, but even us, we're not always gonna be excited for, getting out there or, sometimes we almost need a reward. , so this idea of carrying chocolate with you on hike Uhhuh and then at the end of the hike, especially for the little ones. Yeah. So that's a tradition that's not just a youth thing. That's something that like is commonly done in Sweden.
Yeah, actually especially in Norway, I think. Okay. But definitely here as well. Yeah, it's you have you gotta have a little treat for for when you get to the top of the mountain or the end of the trail or whatever it is that you're, wherever it is that you're going. So it's a little form of bribery To
Yeah. To get the kids on board. It also makes the experience a happy one. It chocolate literally releases happy endorphins. And it's I was just like, that is the most brilliant thing. Why have I not, So yeah, I've got a big giant bag of Hershey's sticks on top of my fridge, thanks to that.
And the thing is, I'm usually pretty strict with my kids where we don't no, no sugar during the weeks and that, but when we go hiking and camping, Then that becomes even more special then cuz it's okay, they know mom's got treats now that were out here. So they connect those two.
Yeah. And the thing is, like little kids they don't necessarily get excited about nature for the same reasons that we do. They're not necessarily gonna appreciate that wonderful view. So they. They need other incentives. . Yeah. And I think the chocolate can be one. Yes.
I would say hiking to a creek where we can throw pebbles is one three, where we can throw rocks into the creek is always a good incentive for my son. Yeah, there's gotta be a creek at the end and then he'll go, yeah, I mainly use chocolate for the harder, like the hikes where there are not a lot of other incentives, for the, for my kids.
If you have a creek where they will enjoy themselves just from playing in the water, then. Yeah, for sure. You're not gonna need the chocolate probably, but , if he knows it's there, he's definitely gonna want it done. . Okay. And the other thing that I was talking about in a on Instagram the other day was some days you just don't feel like going outside at all.
You might need a little reward for. Coming back inside. You got that waiting for you. We're in fall here now and we're going into winter. It's very. Rainy, it's very dark in the winter time. It gets, it starts to get dark around three o'clock here. . And it's definitely, it can be a challenge some days to motivate yourself, but then, Whenever I feel like that, when I feel like I can't, I'm not, I can't do it like , I can't get off the couch.
Wait, really? Have, I wanna stay here under my blanket and just watch Netflix. Then I think about how good I will feel afterwards. Cuz I know if I do, once I do get outside I always feel so refreshed. and I can just feel it in my whole body. It clears my mind. I often come up with like solutions to problems that I've been dwelling on.
It's just, yeah it's just such a good thing. So I, some days I just force myself to, to go outside, even if it's pouring down rain or whatever. And and then you come back. And you notice like you, your envelope by that warmth of the home and you appreciate it much more than you would've if you never would've left the couch.
I might, start a fire in the fireplace and, grab a hot chocolate and and just, yeah, just enjoy it. Yes. I love that and I love that. I love that you don't I love that you. beat around the bu sh and don't sugarcoat and don't like, act like. Yes. I go outside all the time and it's just, it's so easy for me and it's real life and it's, yeah, it's sometimes you gotta bribe the kids and sometimes you gotta force yourself to do it.
But that it is so still so beneficial. And so do you generally try to get out in the mornings, correct? It depends. Right now it's usually lunchtime but I do, I write about morning walks in my book because it's, it has so many benefits due to the light. It's just it helps us, if we get out before 10:00 AM in the morning, it helps regulate Mela the melatonin, which can really help.
Sleep and so forth. But I don't always get out in the morning due to work and so forth. I try to, on the weekends for sure. , during the week, it's usually at lunch. That's like my time at lunch. And then after the kids get home from school, I try to, , get them out for a walk too.
That's awesome. So that's good to know. Cause that's why I was like, I've been trying to get out earlier, but as we get into winter, I struggle Yeah. To get out in the early, before that 10:00 AM because right. Kids arrive in the mornings and I like to get them all, make sure they're all layered up and make sure they're all properly dressed.
So I usually welcome them inside in the winters . And then the, when it's warmer, I just go outside before the kids even get here in the morning. And we just welcome them outside and it's great and we just get straight to playing. And in the winter time, the mornings are, or anytime really, the morning is the coldest time of the day too, which in the winter time that can be a problem too for the kids, or, you may just be, it just may be a little easier to wait a few hours when it's heated up a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah. And I love that it's not important to be outside all day. It's not like we have to spend all day, just get outside for part of the day. Yeah. My last question that I wanted to ask you about and it relates cuz it, it would be waking up outside is, I know you did a sleeping outside challenge.
, are you still doing that? Are you still sleeping outside? I just finished it last weekend actually. Oh. I did. We started in November last year, and now I finished it in yeah, just last weekend. So good timing. So yes. Tell us a little reflection. What did you learn from your time? You slept outside one night a week for or once a month, correct?
Once a month. Yeah, it was a friend of mine who challenged me to do that. And I was game cuz I thought, Wow, I've never tried winter camping. That could be fun. That's another thing about free of sleeve. It's There, there are so many ways of learning new things and challenging yourself and you still, you don't have to be an expert.
But the cool thing is that you learn so much from just having this direct experience. And so I did it and I I missed February because of Covid, but other than that, I did it every month. And we didn't have any extreme temperatures, but it, we did have freezing temperatures a few times and I did camp out.
Alone one month. One one month. And that was December. It was after Christmas. I couldn't get anybody to come with me. So I think that we're tired, we're enjoying our posey warm blankets we got for Christmas. And I tell you, I was not motivated when I packed up my bag that, that afternoon and and walked out into the forest.
But I chose. I think I learned a lot about myself and my limitations and my, But yeah, also about the, about the mechanics. There, there are two parts of this. There's the mechanics of getting out there, having the equipment and the gear and all that. And then there's the mental part too.
Getting into the. Frame of mind convincing yourself that this is a good , this is a wise thing to do. Even though other people might have thought I was a little crazy. And and also overcoming the anxiety of, being all alone in the forest. So there was that too.
And I don't have I have a lot of camping equipment, but I don't have anything specifically for winter camping. So it was a learning process and I just through trial and error, . And a lot of it is just using common sense. So I used double sleeping bags rather than just one try to, stay warm by keeping myself moving until bedtime.
And yeah. And then it was just, The mental part about being out there. And surprisingly enough, I, once I was out there, I felt completely calm. And so I think that was the coolest experience that I had over the course of this year was that I challenged myself with something that I.
Didn't think that, I wasn't sure if I was gonna be able to go through with and, but once I was out there, cuz I I'm a little, like a little scared of the dark. But say the idea of pumping by myself is gives me anxiety a little bit like yeah. People, Animals. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like watching scary movies because I don't like yeah, because I do get a little scared.
But once I was out there and I put up, I found a good spot. I put up my tent and made myself a little fire. I just felt completely calm. It was very strange, but I just felt embraced by the trees and. and that was just the coolest feeling. So I felt like I grew a lot and now, I wouldn't have any qualms about doing it again.
Now I know that okay I know I can do that. So I think it's empowering to have those experiences. And it doesn't have to be that you're like sleeping outside alone or whatever, I think that could be different to. to every person, whatever your what is your, And I'm wait till I can come do that in Sweden where it seems a little bit safer.
Yeah. No, but it's a lot about like finding out what your comfort zone is and then trying to edge edge out of it a little bit. , that's one of the main ideas of the open air alert and slow and just little bits at a time. I love that. We are almost out of time here. Is there anything you want to leave the re the listeners with?
Besides obviously go get this by the time this comes out, this episode comes out it. Is officially available on November 1st. You can pre-order right now, but it will be available November 1st which is in just a couple days. So it will be available by the time you're listening to this. So make sure you go and get it.
I will have all the links to go purchase in the show notes. But is there anything you wanna leave our listeners with, Linda? I think just you can subscribe to my newsletter if you want more fearlessly tips and tricks for everyday life. And she does not send out a ton, not scammy. I'm on her newsletter, so it's great.
Yeah. Rain or shine mama.com is my blog, and I have the same handles for Instagram and Facebook. If you wanna get a sort of. Behind the scenes look of my life nowadays. So yeah, I'm a little more personal. I love and you share, like I said a little bit before you share like the real life, how it's not, Yeah.
So easy for you and that you, and I love just seeing the the adventures you get to take with your girls. So yes, make sure you go follow her on social. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here, Linda, and we will talk to you later. Yes, it was great being here. Thank you. Thank you.