The Seasonal Tokens Podcast - Crypto Investing, Not Gambling

Episode 4: From Neuroscience to A Top Crypto Advisor & Investor With Brandon Zemp

August 04, 2022 Polar & Brandon Season 1 Episode 4
The Seasonal Tokens Podcast - Crypto Investing, Not Gambling
Episode 4: From Neuroscience to A Top Crypto Advisor & Investor With Brandon Zemp
Show Notes Transcript

If you are just starting, is it better to mine or to invest directly in a cryptocurrency? What does the future economy look like? Join me on this podcast where we talk with Brandon about mistakes, CBDC risks and why they are so scary, what makes you a better investor and not a gambler, and what is the best way to learn about crypto investing. And that is not all, listen to this almost 1-hour conversation with Brandon. He has solid experience to share with all of us. Enjoy and subscribe!

Links mentioned in the episode:

Seasonal Tokens -
Blockhash Podcast -
Blockhash Newsletter - 

Disclaimer: None of the information in the podcast should be considered as a financial advice. You should always do your own research. 

Polar:  Hello, everyone. It is Polar here, the CMO of the seasonal tokens. And today we are going to have a special guest in our episode. Please help me to welcome Brandon. Hello, Brandon. 
 Brandon: Hey, Polar. How are you doing? 
 Polar: Hey, I'm doing fine. Thank you very much for accepting my invitation. It's really an honor to have you on the show. 
 Brandon: Absolutely. It's a pleasure to be here, especially on your new show. 
 Polar: Yeah. Thank you very much for this support. I can share a small secret here that Brandon is somehow a mentor of mine for this show and also one of my main, let's say, motivations to start this show. Like, thanks to him, I somehow felt the belief that I can do something like that. So, thank you very much, Brandon, for that.
 Brandon: Of course. Not a problem. 
 Polar: So, let me start with the first question that I ask everyone else. Can you introduce yourself and your background with a few words? 
Brandon: Yeah, of course. So, I'm Brandon, for those of you that may know me, I am pretty well known in the Web 3.0 space for having a podcast around blockchain and crypto. I've been doing it for quite a while now. For those who don't me too well, there's a lot of things I do as well under the table outside of the podcast, which you could probably see in the background on my giant led sign. But I run two blockchain consultancies, two Web 3.0 consultancies, one in the United States, in Nevada, and one here in Colombia where I currently reside. And I've been in this space for almost a decade now. Those consultancies I've had for about half a decade. And generally, what we do is we work with potential clients that want to figure out ways to either educate themselves, integrate the technology, or build out solutions or use cases. We take on a lot of clients in the private sector, but we've also ventured into the public sector as well. Additionally, on a personal note, I also am an author. I'm currently publishing with Forbes right now, a book on blockchain and how it disrupts traditional financial system. That book is titled “The Future Economy,” and it is planned to be launched at the end of this year, the very beginning of next year. It's going on presale in August. 
And we have a newsletter that also is representative of the book called The Future Economy Newsletter that is very similar. It just goes a lot deeper and bit further than where the book goes into explaining how not only these things are happening in Web 3.0, but how you can get more involved in how you can begin to profit and make successful investments in this space. It's a very valuable resource. I'm sure we'll talk about more of that in a bit, but in a nutshell, I do a lot of things. I'm in blockchain. 
Polar: Yeah, absolutely. This is a really, really long bill an experience, I think, especially in the blockchain world. So, yeah, I definitely want to talk about this book because it's very, very interesting. But before we start this big topic, I would say I'm very interested, and I'm sure that our listeners will be very interested to know, like, what has actually attracted you to the crypto world.
 Brandon: Yeah, I think my story began when I was first getting into college, back in like 2013, maybe slightly before that as well. I know what bitcoin was for a long time, but there really was no industry that really existed yet until Ethereum became more substantiated in 2017. And I think my first involvement was around 2013 because I got invested into Bitcoin, into Litecoin around that time. I started playing around with the idea that the space is investable, that there's value being held in these tokens and that they could be used for something in the future. Again, it was very new at the time, very skeptical, very volatile as much as it is today, actually, probably far more than it was today. But my first leg into the space was as an investor, and then by the time I graduated college, I had made a fairly sizable investment into Ethereum that did very well, and that kind of became my launching point to go further into the space, because originally, I was planning to go to medical school. I got my degree in neuroscience, but when I had to weigh that out with my nice Ethereum investment that paid off, I had to decide if I wanted to really go down that route or if I wanted to explore this industry a bit more. And through Ethereum, I was able to see how much further the space could go in terms of the technology, what could be built, what kind of solutions could be found for real world problems, and what things can be fixed in today's society, in today's economies, very early, before this stuff really existed. So, knowing that Ethereum was evolving the space and that is opening up this ecosystem, I wanted to get myself more involved. So, I opened up a company, I launched a podcast. I was actually one of the first to run a mining operation in the state of Oregon. I had hundreds of thousands of miners at my disposal. I built all of them from scratch. It was one of those guys buying GPUs and learning how to set up the software and mining everything from Bitcoin to Litecoin to Zee cash to Zen cash to Ethereum, and then finding ways to plug it into algorithms and trade them back and forth and try to make money. So, I've been involved in this space for a long time, from an investor standpoint, from a minor, as a consumer, as a business owner and developer, I've been doing a lot of different things. But I think that moment in time around 2017 was when I really first got involved. And then it kind of led to a whole series of events and things I did and then the podcast I did shortly after that for the first time as well. And it's probably the most important thing I have done in the space because it just connected me to a network of people in this industry that I've never thought I would ever have before. And that I think is kind of rare. It's one thing to do business in the space, it's one to be an influencer or to do something cool. But when you're talking to all those people all the time, the doors open everywhere and all of a sudden, you're able to do things that you didn't think you were going to be able to do before and have people on a first-person basis be able to call someone, email someone that is CEO of something now, or an executive of something now, or a founder that really was starting out very young back then. So, I've seen tremendous growth personally in my own network and my own businesses just from doing the podcast and nothing else. But that's a little bit about my backstory and how I kind of got into the space. And it's been a long journey, I've done so many different things. I think I've tried just about everything as well.
 Polar: I think that I haven't heard such long story about crypto before. So, it sounds like you have gone through many, many different phases and stages of the crypto world and you have been able to meet a lot of great people. So, are you still doing mining, or you have stopped it?
 Brandon: I'm not doing mining anymore. I was doing it for a period of time, but at some point, it becomes very difficult to get profitable. The problem with this market is it's very cyclical and there's a lot of underlying things with the tech that can affect the price other than geopolitics or things that are trending in the space or what's happening in the economy. The hashing rate, the mining hash rate, the mining difficulty levels, the amount of people that are buying, the dips in supply that happen with certain cryptos and their tokenomics models all factor into the price as well. Many people don't really understand that because most people didn't really get into mining. There's a lot of people that bought maybe one or two miners and hooked it up and made a couple of bucks, but there's not a lot of people that ran a full operation. So, from having done that, I know how expensive it is and I know how much effort and time used to go into trying to make it profitable. And I can tell you it's a very difficult business. The reason I'm not doing it anymore is because it costs too much in rent and electricity, in HVAC systems, in cooling systems to try and run this nonstop and hold on to those tokens long enough for you to see a profit turn. Because some days you're going to mine something and you're going to break even. Some days you're going to mine something and you're going to always be down 10-20 bucks a day. And then some days you're going to mine, you're going to be up $50 or a one hundred. It's very volatile as much as just investing in buying the tokens. And it's just not a space I want to be in. And the only way you see success with a mining operation or being in the proof of work side of things is if you're doing it at extreme scale. And even then, it's incredibly risky because these miners are always turning over. Every couple of years you have to get new ones. They break a lot easier than people think. They're a little fallible, a little flimsy. They require a tremendous amount of power. And as the difficulty and the hash rates go up, they just become irrelevant. You have to get new versions and they're like one, two, three grand a pop sometimes. So, there's a lot of reasons I don't want to be in that side of the industry, but I did get a start in this industry by being a part of the proof of work side of things. And it was an interesting experience and I think I learned a lot and I think that's the biggest takeaway for me. 
Polar: Nice. So, if I understand you're right, like, if our listeners are more in the beginning stage of their crypto journey, you would suggest them to think more about investing in crypto then starting a mining process. 
 Brandon: Yeah, I think you're better off investing just straight up. Like, if you have a couple of grands, just put that in Bitcoin. I mean, there's no point in buying a mining rig or a machine or building one because the ROI is very low. If you only have one. Again, you need to do this at really high volume, need hundreds of these machines to turn a decent profit, especially when the market isn't good, like, right now, it's very difficult to do. You're better off taking that maybe a couple of grands you have instead of buying a mining rig, just buying some Bitcoin, or learning how to day trade than you are to actually profit in that side of things. So, I think unless you really understand it, it's not for the average person. You're far better off just making a normal investment and then doing due diligence to make sure that it has some long-term value and some longevity.
 Polar: Yeah, I'm also for the easy bucks then to put a lot of hard work on something that you don't even understand. So, I would definitely suggest people to do their own research but if they don't have any knowledge about crypto or things like that, they should focus more on how to invest and how to start mining. Because when I was starting, I was thinking that the best way would be to do mining instead of investing. But thanks to a few of my friends that have gone through something similar but of course not with such scale like you have advised me not to go to this road because I'm not the best in technology, let's say it like that. I understand mathematics but not that much for sure. So, I thought that it would be important for people to hear another point of view about mining because there are many places where you can see that people suggest when you are joining crypto to start doing mining before even doing investing. And this is something that I don't agree with. So that's why I want to hear your point of view and I'm happy that you are thinking the same way. And I want to bring you back a little bit of what you said earlier in our conversation about all the great people that you have had the chance to meet during your podcast journey which still continues at the moment. But my question for you is: is the podcast the reason why you have started writing for Forbes? 
Brandon: It's a huge reason why. So, Forbes reached out to me a little over a year ago and proposed to do a book deal with me because they have a subsidiary now called Forbes Books, and Forbes is doing a whole line of published works in tandem with Advantage Media. And they wanted to do something in the Web 3.0 space, in the blockchain space, and they wanted someone that was very knowledgeable about it that could produce a good book. And they just happened to reach out to me about it. And one of the biggest reasons for doing so is because of the podcast, probably because I've interviewed so many people and probably because it has broadened my knowledge so much in the space is my guess. But I think that's a huge reason why. 
Polar: Okay, yeah. I definitely believe that they have done a great job of choosing you. I'm sure that they have done a lot of research and a lot of thinking who to choose, and that's why I believe that they have done the right choice. So, what was actually the biggest motivation for you to write this book? 
Brandon: I'd say that I didn't really have motivation to write a book in the first place. I self-published a book, actually, back in 2017 called “The Satoshi Sequence”, and it's still on Amazon. And it actually did pretty well for never having published a book before. And the premise of that book was to talk about the future of where this technology was going to evolve into, and price wise, how things were going to evolve, cycles of things, and it actually did very well. I think it was like November of 2017 that I released it right before we had that first really big run up and bitcoin went to almost 20,000. So, during that period of time, it caught a lot of attention, and it was just a really good moment for it to be launched. And it was kind of out of nowhere that it happened. But since then, I didn't really have a specific desire or ambition to produce another book until Forbes brought the opportunities to me. And then I thought about it more and more, and I was like, you know what? This is not such a bad idea. Maybe I should do this. It's a good opportunity. Plus, you know, doing anything and having Forbes names attached to it always looks really good. And having someone take over the marketing for me, and take over the editing processes, publishing processes, the whole work, so I can focus and do what I'm good at and I just have to pay for it made sense to me. So, we started working on it, and then as the book came to conclusion, I started to realize how good of an idea it was because of how much this industry has changed over the last five years since I wrote my first book. To now where you have micro industries in the space, like DeFi and stable coins and CBDCs and NFTs. There’re so many different things that have taken storm that are far beyond just bitcoin now and just crypto. It's evolved so much and there needs to be some kind of updated understanding of where the space is going. And where the space is going is the next version of the Internet, the decentralized version of where the infrastructure of the Internet is going, which is called Web 3.0. So, my book, The Future Economy, largely talks about Web 3.0 from all these different aspects within the blockchain space, how decentralization plays into these different industries, how things are shaping up and how it's disrupting the traditional world that we live in today, the traditional financial world, economically, geopolitically, and what that's going to mean for people like you. And then through the book, it's going to give you not just a better understanding, but an opportunity to find ways to invest into this space successfully and go beyond the traditional understandings of, oh, it's very volatile, it's dangerous to... No this is legitimate technology and if you learn to navigate it correctly, you can make a lot of money, you can profit very successfully. And that's where the newsletter comes in and will further expand upon what's talked about and learned in the book and then taking that extra step forward towards how can this really start to benefit you? So, in a roundabout way, I think my interest in doing the book has come far more from the process of putting it together than it was initially wanting to do it. Which is kind of interesting, because most people have inspiration to do a book in the first place. I didn't have an inspiration. I guess you could say Forbes was my inspiration. It was more of a process thing for me. 
Polar: Exactly. This is what I was going to say, that in most of the cases, people have some sort of inspiration when they're writing a book or article or something like that. That's why I thought that you also have some sort of inspiration. But Forbes, I believe, is definitely a good inspiration, for sure. So, can you tell us more about the different sections of the books? More about how the content is structured in the book. 
 Brandon: Yeah. So, from a structure point of view, the kind of things you'll learn in the book revolve a lot around these micro niches that exist in the web 3.0 space and blockchain. So, we'll touch on things like Bitcoin and crypto. We'll touch on things like Smart Contracts, but what we're really focusing on is, what the hell is Defi? Why is that important? Why is that going to be world changing and solve so many problems? How does blockchain factor into supply chain? How can it fix the issues that exist right now, that are hurting retailers, that are hurting me? I can't even get my book published in time. It's gone from five weeks in distribution to twenty-two because of all the economic supply chain issues. How can blockchain fix that? How can we start certifying documents? How can we get the government more involved? What do CBDCs mean for global economics? How does China CBC or the US Fed Dollar that's proposed to come out going to affect us? It really focuses more on these things, specifically, that are happening. Stable Coins, NFTs whether there are niche opportunities that are going to disappear or if they're developed technologies in the space, little umbrellas that are going to solve problems that have been long standing for a long time. And because they're solving problems, they're creating opportunities and when there’s opportunities you can invest, and you can make money in ways you probably wouldn't have imagined before. In this space, most people think the only way you make money is if you buy something like Bitcoin or you buy an NFT and then you flip it or you sell it in the future. But that's not just the reality. You can build businesses in the space, you can get jobs in the space, you can raise capital in the space, you can crowd funds, you can start an institution. You can start a DOW. There’re a million things you can do with DAG. Smart contracts can be applied to just about anything you can think of that has a traditional middleman and that can be a way to make money as well. It can be a way to save money in your business structure, in your business chain. So, a lot of what we focus on are those subtopics in the space but how those specific niches are going to help you invest and make money. And it has a way of wrapping around by the end of the book to help explain those things. Also talking about the best places to live, the cities that are seeing the most development around this technology, some of the best blockchains out there that you should look to invest in in the future that are going to probably expand the most and have the most benefit and a whole host of other things. I won't spoil too much but in a way that's kind of the structure and the outline of what the book looks like.

Polar: I think that this book has a lot more value than people expect from what I just heard. I expect that if you are a new in this would, it would be a great start in the crypto industry right before you decide that the time has come to invest, right? 
 Brandon: Yeah, absolutely. The book is titled The Future Economy for a Reason. It's not primarily just about blockchain. It's about this whole new era that we're going to live in with the Internet. That includes things like the Metaverse, that includes VR, AR, and mixed Reality, that includes different ways of interaction and mediums of communication and content creation. It's not just blockchain. It's this whole Internet, this whole new phase that we're moving into. And I think people are a little and it's not their fault, but naive to the idea that the future economy that we're going to live in is going to be very different. They probably think this is what it's going to look like today in Web 2.0 where you have social media and you know, it's just going to be a version of that and along those lines. But the reality is it's going to be far more decentralized. You're going to have so much more control, you're going to save so much more money, you're going to have so many more privacy protections and it's going to open up a lot more ways to collaborate into work and to find opportunities to get a job, make money, start a business, raise capital in ways that have never really been imagined before. So, the biggest thing I want to do is open people's eyes to what that future economy looks like. And I really think this book is going to do that for the first time because most books talk about the tech and that's great, but this book touches on the tech, but it highlights what the tech will do. 
Polar: Okay. Nice. So, honestly, I think that I want to read the book immediately, even though I consider myself a seasonal investor in crypto. Somehow, I'm sure that there are a lot of things that I'm missing because of my experience and also, from what I hear, there are definitely things that I haven't even used in crypto. But your words make me feel even more motivated of what's coming than what has happened so far. So, I'm really eager for this book to become available so people can buy it and find out, finally the truth about crypto, because there are a lot of myths out there and people are afraid of investing in crypto just because of them. So, I definitely think that your book is another important step in the right direction for main adoption. 
 Brandon: Yeah, I think it's a really important gateway towards what's next. There's a lot of books out there on Blockchain and Crypto. I don't want to compete with those. There's no point in doing so. They all talk about the same thing. They don't talk about what comes after. Like the technology is here, so what's the technology going to do? What's it going to lead to? That's a very important question. And if you're an investor, this is an especially important question in terms of understanding where your investment is going to go or what you can invest in now to prepare for the future. And the future right now, to be honest, is very uncertain. It's very scary what's happening with inflation rates and swap lines and all these countries and massive amounts of debt. There's nothing stable economically about the world right now. People are at war. In 2022, you wouldn't think people would be at war, but they are. There are countries going under their first world countries that never had that issue before. Companies are laying off as much as they were probably back in the recession in the US. In 2007, 2008 there's a lot of nasty things that are occurring and a lot of scary things that could happen going forward. We don't know what the stability of the world is going to look like. It's going to hurt a lot of people and a lot of businesses and a lot of investors. But this is an opportunity to learn and to educate and to understand what the future will look like and how to get there. And I want people to be able to do it through blockchain. I think that it is a huge component technologically of what's going to build us a better future. So, in order to get there, I think my book is going to be a very helpful gateway. It's going to be the first step in that process. My newsletter is going to expand on this on a weekly basis and in far more detail than the book will. But the book is like kind of your way into that door. Then once you're in the door, the newsletter is going to take it the distance so that you have something recurringly. It makes me excited too, and I wrote the damn thing. I already want to read the physical copy when it comes out because I want to see and feel the experience that you guys, I'm sure, will have when you read it. Myself, I've read it over a million times and edited it, but I want to hold the physical book in hand and read it myself, so... If the author is excited to read his own book, then it's going to be something pretty interesting.
 Polar: Yeah. And when I know first-hand, I'm sure that it will be very, very interesting. So, I think that I have a little bit, a hard question for you. So, my question for you is: from all the things that you have written in the book, which part you love the most? 
Brandon: That's a good question. I think I'm most interested to see what people think about the section on CBDCs and then also the section on stable coins. I think those are two very underrated things right now that are going to really change society. Central bank digital currencies are the financial system’s way of saying, okay, we couldn't beat crypto, so now we're going to join it. But it's very scary because imagine today's dollar being completely digital, the level of privacy that goes out the door, the security that you have that the government isn’t going to seize it at some point or instantly garnish it and take it away, or a creditor is not going to have more access to it or.. You know, there's just so many problems that can arise from that. And they already did this in China, and I expect it to happen in China, but in the US, in a capitalistic society, it's a bit more scary having your money that more closely held by the government and by the Federal Reserve. You feel less sovereignty, you feel less power over your value. And that's not something you want. That's bad for economics, and I don't know if that's going to have a good effect. Yeah, it might be easier for remittance and commerce and retail shopping and things like that. But is it really necessary? Because you can do that with crypto. And I think it's their way of holding on to that power that they've had 

strings in the financial world. It's a way for them to stay relevant because tech has threatened the financial world so much to make it go irrelevant. And when you have someone holding on for dear life, they create, I think, bad use cases, and I think CBDCs are a bad use case. I think they're dangerous. So, I talk about it a lot. I talk about a lot what that could mean, the good and the bad, the benefits, the downfalls. And then how crypto can kind of bat back against that. Like how Bitcoin is like, anti-banking. It's anti central banking and the Federal Reserve and how Bitcoin still stands is like anti CBDC as well. So, there's interesting contrast there that I think people need to know and understand because it will affect the future economy that we will live in. And then stable coins as well is very important. I think having on ramps into the space and being able to move money around and have more liquidity is very important. And what governments decide to do in terms of regulating stable coins could be very detrimental to the space as well as how they're built and developed. Like we saw the incident with Terra Luna, for example. They had an algorithmic stable coin that was holding a tremendous amount of Bitcoin instead of cash reserves or cash equivalents, and that led to a devastating downfall for their stable coin and for their project overall and has created a lot of concern across other traditional stable coins like Tether and USDC. And none of that stuff is good. There's a lot of things around stable coins that are helpful and they're very important. But they've also been around since pretty much the very beginning and they're going to get regulated. They're going to get put behind red tape at some point and we need to acknowledge that, and we need to be able to advocate, fight for and lobby for them to exist in this space. Or at least to have freedom to use them. It's a big fear of mine that the US government bans something like Tether or in the EU. They ban the equivalent or something along those lines occurs because it will hurt on a lot of firms in the space and funding your ability to stay in crypto without going into cash, which is really handy, especially if you're a trader and investor. So, there's a lot of good sections in the book, trust me. But I think those two for me in particular, I'm most passionate about because I think they're very critical right now during this period of time, and I just don't think most people think about it. Everyone wants to talk about NFTs, everyone wants to talk about DEFI, everyone wants to talk about DOWs, and they're all important. I just think at this point in time that we live in, CBDCs and stable coins are a little overlooked and I think are a little bit more critical and more easily fallible than what we expect. 
Polar: Okay, I said that I'm really optimistic about the future, but now I think that I'm also scared because honestly, I'm also like everybody else. I haven't thought much about the stable coins. I just accept them as part of the reality and also the same about the CBDC coins. But you're definitely bringing an important point of like, what is going to happen with these stable coins? Especially when this case with Terra Luna happened, everyone has been talking about the thing that stable coins will be more and more regulated, so things like that won't happen. But we all know that all these things and discussions are going on so the government can have more power and more control over the stable coins, which is definitely not good, and also one of the things that Crypto is fighting against. So, I hope that in the book we'll find, let's say, hopes and ideas how to deal if things go very bad with stable coins. 
Brandon: Yeah, the book is going to introduce you to this idea, it's going to introduce you to the problem and it's going to highlight that there are solutions. And in the newsletter, it's going to start talking about that stuff more in depth in helping you understand how to get around it. How to find ways to be successful in those sectors, those small niches. How to take advantage of what's going to happen? How to profit? And how to be a successful investor in a lot of ways Like I have found to be in the space. So again, the book is going to be really important as a door that needs to be opened for the first time. But it will be the newsletter that will hold probably the most value in the end because it's going to go into these subjects a lot more in detail. 
Polar: Yeah, it makes sense. I'll definitely subscribe to it. And before we switch a little bit, the topic, I have one more question regarding the book. So, there are so many topics and so many things that you have discussed in the book, but is it possible for you to give the biggest conclusion from all this book in one sentence? 
Brandon: The biggest conclusion from the book in one sentence: How to make money from the future economy? I think in the end, it just comes down to being prepared and better understanding and learning, which I think so few people do in this space. They consume so much on social media, they consume so much online and on TV, and they get a lot of opinions, but they don't learn like they learn in school. They don't study a lot of these things, or they don't study the space, and that is to their detriment. It hurts them because they aren't able to learn about what the future version of the economy is going to be like. And it's very, very important. People under look it every single day. 20 years ago, no one would have imagined that we live in the world we live in today in 2022. Nobody. The Internet was a baby back then. The Internet is so much more dynamic now, and we're moving into an internet that's going to be so much more interconnected and so much more valuable and so much more useful, especially with machines and semantics. So, the whole idea behind the book in a sentence is better understanding, being able to take away from this idea of the future economy.
 Polar: Okay, great. So, before we switch the topic, maybe you can mention where people should go to the pre-sale or pre-purchase, actually, of the book. 
 Brandon: Okay, so what I'll do is I'll provide links. The presale for the book will be on August 31 on Amazon and you'll be able to pre order it there for your physical copy, which will launch later in the year or probably first week of January because of the supply chain issues again. But what we're doing through the newsletters, if you subscribe to the newsletter instead, you're going to get a free digital copy of the book, come the prelaunch in late August. So, if you want access to it and you want to be able to read it earlier before the physical copies come out, you'll have the ability to do that through the newsletter. Plus, if you sign up for the newsletter, you get both. So, you're getting like 50% off and you're saving instead of having to buy the book and get the newsletter. So, it's a bit of a perk if you do that part now rather than later. But we'll include links and everything in the description for the newsletter, for the pre-order for the book on Amazon and then anything else up coming out additionally, in the meantime.
 Polar: Perfect. Thank you very much for that. From my understanding, you have been investing a lot in crypto and you have started far ago, which is amazing because we are trying to give a lot of value in our episodes here, especially about crypto investing, due to the fact that there are so many misunderstandings and a lot of misleading also in the space. So as a person that has gone through a lot of volatility, a lot of changes in the market, a lot of crashes and things like that, and because right now we are in a very special market condition, let's say in a bear market. Like, based on your experience, what do you think is the best thing a person should do during such markets? 
 Brandon: Learn. I think it's dangerous to invest in a market that hasn't seen any kind of bottom yet. I've made quite a living as a trader myself. I consider myself a day trader/swing trader in the space. I've done it a lot in my free time, and I've made a bunch of money. I've lost a bunch of money and I understand what it takes to make it work. And the biggest thing people make a mistake on is trying to catch what we call a falling knife. Right now, we're in a bear market and it keeps going down. Most people think they can call bottom and they're bullshitting themselves; they think they can, and they just end up losing money. And it's bad investing. And I don't even think you can become a good investor without educating yourself. I really strongly think, especially during these bad times. They're not bad times, they're just down trends in a long cycle. It's going to go up again. I guarantee you it's going to go up again. Everything. So, there's a point to invest and to invest wisely. But while there's the distraction, while there's all the people selling and panicking, you should just educate yourself and learn. Understand why these things are happening, understand why crypto goes through cycles, understand why people invest for certain reasons and what they invest in. But also understand the technology. Why is this technology important? Why are people investing in the technology? Are people investing in specific technologies in this space? Under the Web 3.0 umbrella. I think the more that you educate yourself properly, reading a book, listening to a podcast, watching a webinar series, subscribing to reports or newsletters or anything where you can consume not content, but consume factual information and opinions from people that are substantiated and smart in the space, you're going to be far better off. So, during periods of time like this, don't worry about what to invest and if you should invest or what to do, just learn. Take the opportunity to step back and assess everything and consume knowledge. And please do not do it on social media. There's way too much crap on there. Do it through legitimate means but broaden your sense of understanding and you're going to be far better off. 

Polar: Okay, thank you very much for this answer, but it brings another question to my mind. Because there are so many places that you can go and learn, but like I already mentioned, there are some places that I believe have the go to mislead you in a bad direction. I don't know why, but I have seen such places. So, are there some places that you would recommend people to go if they're starting right now and want to learn more or they just have started in crypto but they have realized that there is a lot more to learn but they just don't know where to go?
 Brandon: Yeah, there's a lot of different sources of information you can consume. There are a lot of opinions in the space, and there are some people that are more, I'd say, accurate than others. But no, nobody that you learn from is going to know everything, and nobody you learn from is going to be accurate 100% of the time. So, you should always know that before getting into anything. You want to learn from people that you can identify with, that you like, that kind of come from the same background as you may be, or that resonate with you in some kind of way, or that talk about the things that are interesting to you. And there's a lot of people that do that. Like, for me personally, I like to consume Anthony Pompliano's content. I like his podcast and his show. I like his letter. I think he has a very eccentric view on the space. He's very bullish about things like Bitcoin, and he's very positive about the direction. I like learning from him, but I also like learning from economists. I like learning from people like Danielle D. Martino booth in The Daily Quill. I like learning from Jim Rickards. Those guys have such a long-term understanding of how the financial system works and how that stuff affects crypto and blockchain and the industry that we're in and that we love. And I don't necessarily resonate with those people, but I resonate with the information they share because it's beneficial to me. So, you need to figure out who in the space you like the most, who I keep saying the term resonates with you, that you feel you're going to get the most from. There's not like one or two people, I'd say, that just know everything. But go check out some podcasts, go read some books, sign up for some letters. There's lots of different things you can do and do a quick Google search and you're going to find hundreds and hundreds of different things. And that's just probably the best place to start.
 Polar: Yeah, I think that you have given some good sources to start with, and when you start, I suppose a lot more sources will come to you. So, we are talking about the current bear market. That what people should do during such market, but at the same time, it's very interesting: what's your point of view about what a person should do when the bull market is back? 
Brandon: When the bull market is back. I think you'll know it's back. It's pretty obvious the change in trend when it happens. But what you don't want to be doing during the middle of a bull market is buying. You don't want to be the person that's FOMOing into the market and buying as things are peaking out. You want to find a time to buy when markets have bottomed, when this bear trend ends, things will get quiet for a while, will be in this crypto, quote unquote winter. Things will be down; things will be low volume. That's a good time to invest when people aren't thinking of doing it themselves. Because this market will cycle up again. It's just a matter of time. It could be six months, it could be a year, it could be two years. You just have to be really patient. During a bull market, the best thing you can do if you're a trader is look for a point of sell. Again, you want to always buy low and sell high. That's the mantra of any trader that has ever existed. Buy low and sell high. So, if you're in a bull market, ideally you should be looking to sell, to exit at the right time and capturing as much profit as you can. But you should also be wary of: What kind of things are developing, what things are coming to light? Because in every bull market cycle you have new projects and new blockchains and new niches that pop up and new influencers and new opportunities. And some of them are very legitimate and you should keep a close eye on while they're young because they can be profitable in the future too, while others are complete bullshit and scams. And you've got to be really careful. So, during the good period of time during a bull market, be very analytical, look at everything that's happening and start looking for new opportunities while also looking for ways to profit. Because that's your best time to make an exit from the market if you're an investor. If you're a developer, you're going to start finding more work. If you're looking for a job, you're going to find more jobs. If you're a startup, it's going to be very easy for you to hire to raise money. A lot of growth happens during bull markets. During bear markets, there's a lot of work and development and building that's done. So, when you're in that bull market period of time, you're going to see a lot of different growth happening from a lot of different angles. So just be very analytical and think about the different ways that you can take advantage of it. 
Polar: What you're saying reminds me of the meme mania in the last bull market, when there have been a lot of people saying that they have become millionaires thanks to this meme mania. I'm sure that you remember this, like people talking everywhere on social media, showing proofs of their wallets, how much money they have there. So, it has been very fun. So, I believe that you are definitely right. But there is one thing that worries me the most in crypto, and it is that most of the investors are actually gambling rather than investing. So based on your experience, how do you think a person can do more investing rather than gambling in crypto? 
 Brandon: Investing comes from understanding and knowledge. Gambling comes from hope, I think the most, more than anything. You can definitely gamble on crypto. You can gamble on the stock market. If I log into my brokerage account and just say I'm going to buy some Amazon stock without thinking about the possibilities, that's gambling too. It can exist in any space. So, this term gambling versus investing is really developed in the space because of things like dogecoin. Because of things like Sheba, Baby Doge, all the meme coins in the meme coin category. And to be honest with you, I don't think there's a problem with meme coins as much as there's a problem with NFTs. If you were to say that all meme coins are just scam, pump, and dumps, then you could say the same thing about most NFTs that are all fluff. I think you have to think about it from the creative aspect. If you think about it as something that's creative and capturing a community like Dogecoin has or like Sheba has, there is value there. There's value in groups of people, there's value in communities, there's value in ideas as much as there's this fluff value in a Bored Ape. I'm sorry, but there's nothing really there, it's a picture. So, while I don't personally like to invest in things like Dogecoin or Sheba or meme coins, I do sometimes when I think I can catch trends or I think that as an investor, it might make sense to have a little my portfolio, but I do it in a very structured way. I don't say. Oh, look, Sheep coin just took off the other day and went up 2000%. I'm going to buy 100000 of it. That's Gambling. But if you watch it and you find that there are cycles and that it moves with certain trends and that there's now a metaverse behind it, there's an NFT collection, there's a lot more things to give it additional value than just the community. And you think about it, and you pick a right point in time that's an investment. So, it all depends, I think, on subjectively, how you look at it, more than what people tell you. Because at first glance, people are just going to say that you're gambling, you're putting money into Doge coin. How could you do that? There's nothing. Doge coin is never going to be anything. It's not like bitcoin. That's not true. Dogecoin is like bitcoin. They cloned bitcoin to make dogecoin. There's really no difference between the two others than we believe bitcoin has value and dogecoin doesn't. So again, the idea of gambling versus investing comes down only subjective to how you look at it. So, the more educated you are, the more you understand, that that changes the perception of what you're doing. So don't worry about what other people say, just focus on what you believe and where you think that value is lying, if that makes sense.
 Polar: What you're saying definitely makes a lot of sense to me. Honestly, I haven't thought about these differences, but you're definitely right. The knowledge makes the difference. And this brings me to the other point that most of the people are gamblers, especially because they don't have the knowledge and they don't want to spend the time to get this knowledge, something that you already mentioned in the episode. So, I hope that after your book is online, people will get used to do more research and learn more before doing something like crypto investing, because otherwise it will be actually crypto gambling, not investing, right? So, I think that we have been talking a good amount of time, but I have two more questions for you, if you don't mind. So, we have been talking about Bear and Bull market but I'm sure that we have a lot of newbies listening to this podcast and they'll be wondering like, everything is great. I understand this and the other thing, but I want to start immediately what would you suggest me to do if I have, for example, free $100 or $1,000 per month and I want to start immediately with investing in crypto, what should be my strategy? 
 Brandon: The good thing about this space is it's very inclusive, the way that it's structured and built. So even if you had a dollar, you can still invest that dollar. You don't have to have thousands of dollars; you don't have to have a set amount. You don't have to be some verified investor. Anyone can do it. It's open to everybody. So, there's no excuse not to try to invest what you can afford to do. My best advice is, other than educating yourself, which we've talked about a bunch, is figure out what exchange or wallet you like the most. Figure out what strikes your cord? what gets your attention when you look at the space? Is it Bitcoin? Is it Ethereum? Is it Solana? Is it Cosmos? Is it NFTs? Do you want to invest in companies? Do you want to invest in projects? Like what is your gut say is a good investment? What do you want to do? You figure that part out and then invest what you can afford to lose. I know so many people that have invested in this space starting out, and they all just throw their money into something without thinking about it, and they end up losing it. And I always tell them that is, okay, you're going to learn more about this industry by losing a little bit of money. Then you are going to be making it initially. There are so many people that buy one thing and become a millionaire in a year, and they are like, wow, I'm a great investor. But the reality is they got very lucky. It does not happen very often, and those same people usually end up losing most of that money. So, the best thing to do is think about how much money you can afford to lose. Can you afford to lose a dollar? Can you afford to lose $100? Can you afford to lose a 1000$, and then make your best guess and give it a go. If you want to invest in Bitcoin, you think of bitcoin is going to do very well in the next year. Test your theory. Put some money into it. You might lose that money. It is possible, but you're going to learn. And that is the most important thing, is learning how this market works and what you do right, what you do wrong from investing in how you can, you know, fix that and better improve that going forward. And that is something I've done as an investor. I have lost thousands and thousands of dollars. Sometimes more than makes me uncomfortable. But you are able to usually make that money back. You are usually able to and make really good investments long term by learning those lessons. So again, 1- figure out how much you can afford to lose that you would be okay with, that wouldn't hurt you if you lost it tomorrow, 2- pick an exchange or a wallet that you like and 3- pick something that you want to invest in. Do not let someone else tell you what to invest and do it yourself. Look at it. Think about it. Look at a couple of charts. Look at the news, get an idea for it, and then just give it a go. See what happens. The more you play around with it, the more you come to grips with it, the more success you will find investing in this space.
 Polar: Thank you very much for this answer. One thing that strikes me from what you are saying is about losing the money. Correct me if I am wrong, but you lose money if you decide to sell, right? If you hold you do not lose, it just a potential loss, not an actual loss, right?
 Brandon: It mostly depends on the spread of the price. So again, you buy something at $10, and it goes to twenty, and you sell it at 20, you have made your money back and profited $10, right? It all depends on how the market shape up in particular. But just because something goes down does not mean you've lost the money. You still hold the asset. It is like owning a stock. The reason I say just try it and lose a little bit of money; it is to give you exposure. There is no way to guarantee that you're going to make money in the space, but I can guarantee you're going to lose a little bit. So go lose a little bit. You buy something at $10, it goes to five. You lost $5. Not the biggest price to pay to learn an easy, cheap lesson in what you did right versus what you did wrong. So that is why I say it. I mean, obviously, do not take a tremendous amount of money and invest it and gamble it away, but be measured about it and think about what's okay with you to lose. Like, for me, I am okay to lose $1,000 in something. So sometimes I will pick something that I think is interesting, cool, or new, and I'll put $1,000 there. And sometimes times it goes up and I make a little bit of money, and a lot of times it does not. But if I can afford to lose $1,000, then I think about that as me paying a fee to learn a lesson. And that is how you should think about it as well. So do not be afraid to lose a little bit of money. It is very normal in this space. Very normal in any space that you invest in. 
Polar: Absolutely, I agree with you. But I have always had this confusion when I have started my investing journey, not in crypto, but in stocks. I have been always thinking that when I buy stocks and they go down, I am immediately losing my money. It is not this way. Like, it took me a lot of time to realize that I will lose this money only if I decide to sell. But if I believe in the company and hold it, maybe in five or ten or 30 years I'll be a millionaire thanks to this stock. But if I'm scared and decide to sell during a bad moment for the company, I'll lose my money, that's for sure. So, after so many years of investing in stocks, and when I come here to the crypto investing world, I found out that there are still a lot of people that think the same way about crypto investments. That when they buy something and it goes down, they are immediately losing money. As far as I know, this is true only if you are using some sort of leverage trading on some of the platforms and you're actually not owning the real assets, right? 
 Brandon: Yeah. Leverage trading is very dangerous. I have friends who do leverage trading. I refuse to do it. If you're good at what you do, you're a good trader. There's a lot of money that can be made with leverage trading. But the problem is, when you take out leverage, you take out leverage against yourself, too. So, you're betting something's going to go up, and you're getting a multiple for being right on that. But if you're wrong, you're going to be multiples down. It's going to hurt you even more. So, I don't think it's necessary to leverage trade in the space. To each their own opinion. I mean, someone else might like it. I could be completely wrong, and for a lot of people it could be great. But it's very dangerous and very risky, especially if you're new. Do not get into leverage trading, because if you're bound to make a mistake, you're going to lose money. So why would you multiply your losses? Leverage trading is a very advanced way of going about making money in the space. So, stay away from it until you really understand what it means to trade.
 Polar: I agree with you that it's very, very risky. So, if someone is just starting out, using leverage is definitely your almost guaranteed way of losing everything that you have. So, I believe that you should forget about leverage. You should try to invest only with a margin spot trading. So definitely not leveraging. So, I think that we're in the end of our pretty long conversation. So, my last question for you is, after all the things that we have said so far, talking about crypto investing, different markets, about the amazing book that will come to life very soon, so what are the final words that you want to share based on your wisdom regarding the crypto industry with our listeners? 
Brandon: Stay calm, don't panic. You know, this space is notorious for being volatile. With any new kind of technology, there's bound to be tremendous volatility. Be patient. It's incredibly critical in the space. Not enough people do it. That's why people get burns. That's why people lose money. That's why people get a bad taste in their mouth and don't want to be a part of it anymore sometimes. You have to understand that anything great moves in cycles, in patterns. The space especially moves very cyclically. And we just went through a massive bull run in the past year and a half. For the past nine months, we've been entering into a downtrend. And that's normal. It's to be expected. If you think that that's not normal, then you live in a fantasy world. So, whatever you think about the space, however you feel right now, whatever you think about web 3.0 and blockchain, just be patient, breathe. Don't look at things day to day. Just go on with your life and work on things and be productive. And before you know it, the space is going to tick up again and you'll be surprised. Bitcoin will probably go to 100,000. Ethereum will probably go to 10,000. You'll see some crazy things happen, and then you'll look back and feel silly for feeling bad or feeling down about what's happening in the markets right now. So, relax, be patient, go have a beer, go live your life, and then just look for opportunities to invest while the market is starting to bottom out. And you'll be fine. 
 Polar: Yeah, there is life outside of Crypto, that's for sure. Thank you very much for all your answers, Brandon. It was a tremendous pleasure for me to have you on the podcast. 
 Brandon: Yes, absolutely. It's a pleasure to be on. I'm happy to come on anytime again in the future, just let me know and hope your audience got a lot of value out of this. 
 Polar: I'm sure that they'll get a lot of value. So, thank you very much again, and thank you very much to all the listeners that have been with us till this point. I really appreciate your support, and if you like what you have heard so far, I hope that you subscribe to the podcast to your favorite directory, no matter if it is Spotify, Apple Podcast, or whatever it is. Your support means a lot to me. So, thank you very much again. I'm Polar the CMO of Seasonal Tokens, and I'll see you on the next episode. Bye for now.