Golfweek Amateur Tour - The Podcast
Welcome to the Golfweek Amateur Tour Podcast!
If you love amateur golf, the thrill of competitive golf events, and the camaraderie of the golf community, this is the podcast for you!
Join hosts Tim Newman and Chris Rocha as they bring you the latest from the Golfweek Amateur Tour, covering everything from all of the local golf tours through the road to the National Championship. We’ll break down recent golf tournaments, highlight standout players, and dive into what makes amateur golf competitions so much fun.
But that’s not all, we sit down with tour directors, course pros, and players from across the country to hear their stories, get insider perspectives, and maybe even pick up a few tips along the way. And, of course, we’ve got Roger’s Rules, where we tackle the quirkiest, most debated rules in golf (because let’s be honest, we all need a refresher sometimes).
This isn’t just another amateur golf podcast, it’s a golf podcast for everyday golfers who love the game, the grind, and the great people that make up the Golfweek Amateur Tour. So hit subscribe, grab a drink (or a range bucket), and let’s talk golf!
Golfweek Amateur Tour - The Podcast
Teeing Up Success: Vic Werner's Journey, 2025 Golf Rules Insights
This episode explores the heart of the Golf Week Amateur Tour through engaging discussions with new tour directors and a special focus on the rules of golf. We welcome Vic Werner, the Senior Arkansas Tour Director, as he shares his journey and insights about enhancing the competitive experience while fostering community among players. The episode also addresses essential rule clarifications to better equip golfers for the challenges they may encounter on the course.
• Introduction of co-host and special guests
• Welcoming new directors to the Golfweek Amateur Tour
• Vic Werner discusses his role as Senior Tour Director
• Importance of community and camaraderie within the tour
• Overview of exciting upcoming events and must-play courses
• Roger clarifies important golf rules for all players
• Tips for new members and embracing a fun, competitive atmosphere
• Final thoughts on the spirit of golf and fostering connections among players
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Welcome everybody to the next episode of the podcast. As you can tell if you're watching or listening, usually I don't give the intro for the podcast, but Tim's not able to join us this episode. So I was asked to pick a special co-host for this event and there are so many choices that I was able to pick from. Were so many choices that I was able to pick from, uh? But I knew, you know that every year it seems like I, at the beginning of the year, I do an episode by myself and, uh, every year I ask, uh, my good friend, to join in, um this episode. So, uh, when I had to get a full co-host for the full 45 minutes to an hour, you're going to listen to us.
Speaker 1:I knew exactly who to pick, so we're going to bring him in right now, especially if you're watching. But he's a great director, you know, director of the year, top contributor to the Tavi Foundation year after year, one of the bigger regionals that we have year after year to the Tavi Foundation year after year, one of the bigger regionals that we have year after year, and my dear friend who has guided me through becoming a director. So definitely want to bring him on. We're going to go ahead and do that right now. There he is, mr Gabe Garcia, arizona director. Gabe, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Chris, how are you doing, my friend? I'm doing fantastic.
Speaker 1:I'm doing great. Thank you for coming on being a co-host with me. We have a great episode. We're going to bring on another director to talk about his season coming up, and then we've got a return of the rules with Roger's Rules, which people have been excited to hear from.
Speaker 2:uh, I can't believe people are excited to hear about the rules of golf, but uh, they're asking for it hey, man, anything that you can, any information you can get to get an advantage out on the course, I think anybody that is looking for that opportunity, so more the better true, we we've talked before how you know rules can be an advantage as well as sometimes a disadvantage, especially if somebody knows it and you don't know and it just blindsides you.
Speaker 1:We need to check to see if there's a rule on lights on the carts so I can penalize you all next time, but that's a story for another day.
Speaker 2:I think it's a story that needs to be told, though It'll be told. It's always told for another day.
Speaker 1:I think it's a story that needs to be told, though It'll be told. It's always told, trust me, but let's get this episode started. How do you feel about that? I'm excited, let's do it All right, let's go.
Speaker 3:Ladies and gentlemen, golf Week Amateur Tour proudly presents Golf Week Amateur Tour, the podcast Talking about all things Golf Week Amateur Tour, including interviews with tour directors, players and course professionals. Now here are your hosts, tim Newman and El Paso Las Cruces tour director, chris Rocha All right, gabe, so this is going to be your first guest as the co-host.
Speaker 1:I hope you're excited and you know, like we mentioned before, we're trying to get all these new directors. We have a lot actually I don't know if you're aware of how many we have.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a lot of new ones are coming in, both tours, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there is quite a bit, so we kind of want to put a face and a voice you know in case they're not watching the video format to who their tour director is going to be. So, without further ado, we have there. He is Vic Werner, the new director of the Senior Arkansas Tour. Sir, how are you doing today? I'm doing all right.
Speaker 4:Good to be here Morning.
Speaker 1:Dave Morning. Dave Chris, happy New Year. Well, appreciate you taking some time. You know, unfortunately Tim couldn't be with us, but my mentor, mr Gabe Garcia, is here as my co-host.
Speaker 2:Don't humble that against him, Vic.
Speaker 1:Vic, we just really want to get to know you. You know, congratulations, welcome to the group of directors. I would say elite group, but um, you know there's there's some that that would say otherwise. But uh, you know, welcome. Like um, you know we have a lot of of listeners, especially in your area, and let them know to tell them who, who mr vick is and who's taking over their tour.
Speaker 4:Well, I've been playing on the regular tour on the I don't even know what you call it, I guess the Golf Week tour Since 2013,. It started here in Arkansas in 2012. I started in 2013,. Started in the C flight, trying to stay in the C flight but been playing badly and moving down to the c flight trying to stay in the c flight but been playing badly, moving down to the d flight, but anyway.
Speaker 4:Uh started out, uh got to know jerry hamashak, the tour director there, and became his assistant in my second year, helping him out. Uh, and then, uh, two years ago we decided to start the senior tour and at first jerry was running that when I was still his assistant. But as I was telling Gabe pre-show, I said he had a couple of new grandkids. He had two, his only two. They're twin girls and he just has to spend a lot of time. We originally started doing the tournaments on the same weekend as the regular tour, just on a Monday. Usually A lot of people couldn't come and partly it was because he couldn't be gone four weekends out of the year. My wife is helping me this year, so we're still together on the weekends doing golf week stuff.
Speaker 2:Nice.
Speaker 1:Hey and you bring that up, but we've talked about it before me and Tim, when the spouses are involved, whether it's on event day or leading up to event day, it's better. It's a better experience for us as directors because we know that we have that support. You know, I know, like, for instance, gabe at TPC, his whole clan helps him. I mean he's got eight people that help him. You know my wife. She may not be at the events but leading up to it she's helped me cut score cards and cart signs and making sure everything's packed ready to go. So it's always a good help to have them around to help us out.
Speaker 2:So, Vic, having been, I guess, the assistant for Jerry for a while, how do you think that's going to help you as you get started with taking over the tour yourself?
Speaker 4:Well, it helps me learn how the tournaments run and how we run them, and so that's definitely been a help. It's also helped because I got to know. I get to know all the guys and the ladies we have some ladies in there too, but I get to know everybody. They get to know me. Some of them know me better than they know Jerry, but some of it depends too, because Jerry's been an A-B flighter so he got to know the higher flights and I tended to know the C-D folks a little bit better. But I've really gotten to know everybody pretty much. So that's been helpful to help him and get to know people. Like I said earlier, I look after the website, the content, so I get to see people's names. Anytime After the tournaments I take the pictures. We do a slideshow of winners on our website so I put the slideshow together. Yeah, tournament day doesn't end with the tournament. I'm usually working especially with two, having to put two slideshows. That got exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we all know that one. Everybody thinks as soon as the uh yeah as soon as the scoring is complete, that everybody's day is just done and over with and go home and relax. And that's not.
Speaker 1:That's certainly the case so are you still helping him with the golf week one as well?
Speaker 4:yes, yep, yeah, I that. That was one one. One of his requirements for getting rid of it is that I continue to help him with that Again, because I mean, I'm the more of the, even though my my degree, my day job, is not in technology. I love technology and I've always, so I'm basically his tech helper, or you know any anything technological. I'm there for that.
Speaker 2:Do you have a lot of crossover between the two tours? A lot of guys plan both.
Speaker 4:We do. We have a fair amount, and I was thinking about this the other day. I think I need to check and see who is crossing over. Still. We have a few that have just decided to focus on the senior, but then we still do have some crossover. So I'm not sure I haven't gone in to see how many people Right now we're running about neck and neck on, you know new members or memberships. That's great. He's a couple ahead of me. We kind of joke around about who's ahead of who. Last year we had on the senior tour for our second year. We had 93, I think, and he had 150 or so, maybe more, I don't know the exact number, but he had quite a few. And again, as you know, some people start to play a few tournaments and you don't see them again. Sure, I mean 93 is still a good number.
Speaker 1:Solid him again, but sure, right, but I mean, 93 is still a good number solid.
Speaker 4:I'm hoping to hit that 100 mark before the. Uh, you know I got to go to the director's meeting in hilton head as a new new director, so see all those little awards they give out, and you know.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of kind of cool to watch that oh yeah, it's always a good time. So your, your season starts, from what I'm looking here, starts in march, yeah, kind of kind of mid and march. Um, any courses on there that you know are like hey, you do not want to miss this event, don't? You know? Whether it's a major or a single day, this is one of the one or two that you do not want to miss for any reason.
Speaker 4:Well, for us, you know, we have the advantage. We have the Hot Springs Village, which is a retirement community. It has eight golf courses there and they're all in great shape Always. You know, we have people come from other tours that say we come up to play Columbia Air Vans because this is the nicest course we play all year. Some of our folks have even said that, uh, depending on what course they played in hilton head, the village courses are just as nice as those. So, uh, anything in the village is a is a don't miss.
Speaker 4:So we start out in the village our season opener. It's. It's a two-day event. Originally started as a one-day event but because of some scheduling issues it ended up being a two-day event to start out. But the other course probably on the schedule is Diamante. Nobody in this area wants to miss Diamante. Diamante is in the village but it's a private course and it's always in great shape, just a gorgeous course. So I really want to be Diamante Right now I'm kind of trying to connect with.
Speaker 4:I've got one date to fill a Monday. Well, it could be a Saturday, but try to get a Monday private club and we were scheduled to play there on Eclipse Day so it got canceled because of Eclipse Not that the Eclipse lasts a long time, but it got canceled. That and partly because that particular course was getting ready to host the Simmons Bank Championship for the Champions Tour of the PGA. They have a contract for the next five years and so we're hoping to get back. I'd love to be able to get on there again with, like I said, we were scheduled, but I'm, me and the head pro are having a hard time connecting. Don't know if he even has that date available, but that that would be. Yeah, and that course I I volunteered at the tournament. It's just in gorgeous shape. I've played it before, but it was just in absolute gorgeous plate shape for the pros.
Speaker 2:Just let them know that the only fee that you charge for volunteering is that they allow you to hold a single day in there.
Speaker 1:Should get you in without any problems, right? Yeah, that's a good try, but no, I mean, I'm looking at it.
Speaker 4:That is pretty cool to have just one village with all these courses that you can really knock out half your schedule in yeah and I don't have as many on my schedule, as jerry has on his this year, because I grabbed a couple of newer courses that we hadn't played before. There's one, uh, river oak, up in cersei, which is a new course, uh, for us, uh we have. The advantage in the senior tour is we can pick some courses that have shorter yardages that they can't do on the golf week Around. Here we call that the open tour.
Speaker 2:Are you and Jerry working together to kind of coordinate the schedule so the guys that do crossover have the opportunity to play as much as possible?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we do A couple couple of weekends. We decided, if it was the same course, we would do a saturday sunday event. He'd do the saturday, I do the sunday, so that might give us another weekend off for sure in that month rather than being alternate.
Speaker 4:But yeah, we've tried pretty much to do alternate weekends on most months. So it's's, it's worked out Okay. It's like early in the season he set his dates. Kind of he has seniority, he set his dates first and I kind of went into in in between those dates. But yeah, worked out pretty good. We we get along well and you know, and he's always been uh good to teach me the ropes but also, uh, you know, takes, takes good care of me good right, and your events are usually mondays or saturdays they are now uh, more I think we have.
Speaker 4:The only time we do a monday event now is if it's a private club, and that's the only time they're open. So I think I have three, maybe four. If I get pleasant valley I think that might be four, but a lot of the rest are saturday or if it's a two-day, usually a saturday, sunday good.
Speaker 1:I do have to ask. I keep looking at it, that trophy behind you. I know you put it there for a reason.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that was 2015? I don't remember what it was here. Yeah, Sea Flight winner.
Speaker 2:All right 2015,.
Speaker 4:Isabella, one of the tour finals, I think.
Speaker 2:Very cool. Bragging rights is always a good thing, huh, chris, yeah.
Speaker 4:I bring them here to the office. I mean, if you looked at the other side of my office, I've got anything I've won, which hasn't well. Actually I was going to say it hasn't been in a while, but I did go to Nashville last year in the D flight in seniors and won Nashville by scoring much lower than I've ever scored Sandbagger.
Speaker 1:Well, let me ask you this, then you know, because you are a player as well Are you planning on being the few director players, or are you just going to be director for this first year and kind of see how it goes? Oh, I'm going to do my best to play.
Speaker 4:We'll see how that works. Biggest problem is if we're at a course where we can't do a shotgun.
Speaker 2:Oh sure.
Speaker 4:A shotgun. It's not a problem really playing because they just all go out at the same time and the Village this year has kind of changed some of their rules, where you have to have like 84 players to do a shotgun.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Without that you're going to do tee times, which first of all makes for a long day for us, for sure. Yes, otherwise. So probably what I'll do is because my wife will be there checking people in, so I will probably go out in the first couple of groups. That way I get back so as people are coming in, because before, how Jerry and I would do it is, he would go out in one of the first groups, I would get everybody checked in and then I'd go out. Yeah, I'm usually in the C flight, unless I suck, then I'm down to do what on it? D flighters don't suck, they're just different. I would go out at the end then. So, as the groups would come in, he would just give them their trophies and take pictures, and so it would be a little different with, you know, my wife being there. She's pretty good, she's helped us before on the regular tour check people in, so she knows how to do it and she's pretty efficient too, probably more efficient than I am.
Speaker 2:So, as a new director, do you have any goals that you're trying to, you know, achieve in this first season? You know you mentioned the 100 members and obviously that's a goal that we all shoot for, at very least every year, but any other things that you're trying to accomplish this year.
Speaker 4:I'm just trying to figure out ways and that's why I like to talk to other directors too is ways to make the tournaments fun that day. You know what. You know any ideas that people have that can. Just you know little extra things. I might try and throw in a few drawings for something.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Especially at the season opener. I mean, right now we're offering anybody who signed up for that early bird we're going to do a drawing for a free registration for the season opener. Right free, free registration for the season opener, right, but hopefully I'll have a few, you know, extra, extra funds to uh, maybe buy a putter or something like that. Either raffle off or just have.
Speaker 1:Hey, if you're here, you sign up your name's in the drawing, yeah, right, yeah, that that always draws a lot of people, especially, you know, our major events is when we have something big to give away, um, or even if the course I'd really like to.
Speaker 4:I mean, I'd like to have, I'd like to have at least, you know, 50 people per tournament, every tournament. Really would like to have more, Uh, but last year we averaged about 50. Sometimes we're a little lower than the senior, a little lower than the senior Right.
Speaker 2:Well, with all of the directors out there, you've got a lot of resources for new ideas and different things like that Facts.
Speaker 1:So last chance, you know, before we let you go for the day, if you could just throw it out there, you know how you would recruit a player or whatnot. What would you say to everybody who is obviously, you know, 50 and over that can join the senior tour to come and either visit your tour or even become a member?
Speaker 4:Well, I think for me, first of all, it's a lot of fun. You meet a lot of great people. You meet people all the time when you go to nationals. You meet a lot of people. But it's a great way to improve your golf. If you really want to get better at golf I mean if you're just happy with being the weekend golfer then it's fine. But if you really want to get better at golf, joining the senior tour or if anybody's listening to this, who's younger the regular tour, joining either one is a great way to get better, because you know we play them down, we put them out, we play the rules. But the other thing some people get a little nervous when they hear that we play the rules. So just a big emphasis to anybody listening is that we play the rules, but we're a fun group too.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 4:But that's how you get better, I think, is when you're as my brother and I always say a golf hole is not finished until the ball is in the hole.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 4:Unless you're a triple bogey.
Speaker 1:And you'll get those new members that come in and say, oh, we always pick up for gimme's. It's like, well, not not today. You're not not today.
Speaker 4:You know, I remember what one tournament, uh, you know one guy he was, he was new and you know he was uh, I think he was, he was his. His tap in would have been for a six and you know, and so he scoops it up and he says six and I'm going seven. Yeah, he laughed. I mean, he knew what.
Speaker 1:He knew what he did as soon as he did it right right those are the fun times because, like you said, we we do follow the rules, but it is fun and I think a lot of us know how to joke around with oh yeah, unfortunately it is a penalty or or things like you know, a drop the way they dropped it. Or or can I take out this bush? Uh, things like that. I mean me and gabe deal with bushes over here in the desert.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but you know it's especially at the beginning of the season. It's a learning experience. So I agree, getting into competitive golf is a great way to get improve your game, but also learn the game.
Speaker 4:So yeah, yeah. So yeah, we, we welcome everybody. Come on, give it a try. It's just a lot of fun, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, vic, again thank you for joining. Can't wait to see you at the director's meeting and see that over 100 club for you You're. You're neck and neck and neck with the golf week tour. I was just looking at it right now, so I'm going to be rooting for you to get to 100 before them. Maybe you run that same contest that me and Gabe are running the first tour to 100 raffles off an entropy somewhere.
Speaker 4:What do you raffle off so?
Speaker 2:Chris and I run a dual tour major championship down in a place called Tubac, which is where they filmed some of Tin Cup. So we've got a challenge going at the first tour to 100. The other director covers an entry fee for that event.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 2:So, good luck to you this season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, likewise Great talking to both of you. Have a good one.
Speaker 2:Let's take a break from the show to hear about Strixon's ZX Mark II drivers.
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Speaker 1:Gabe. So first off, I almost called you Tim, but we, you know I don't know if you've been paying attention but we've kind of been having all the new directors on our podcast lately and I just think it's pretty cool. I mean, you started off as one of the fresh new directors in town and really had no one close to go to, and then when I started I had you to kind of lean on and you know, as I got through it I had other new directors lean on me and I think it's awesome to just have these guys on here and ladies to uh just talk about themselves and you know people that are listening.
Speaker 2:Get to know them yeah, one of the things that's been uh critical, I think, to the to our growth, is the fact that directors are able to lean on one another. You know recently, with the guys in Vegas and a bunch of new guys that have come on in the last handful of years, it's a great base of guys to work off of, and so to be able to have guys to reach out to is definitely critical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean you're about to have two new guys over there in Arizona and I mean they got you in their back pocket. But I bet you they feel as comfortable as ever to know they have Vegas up there and they have El Paso, even though we're rivals. They have them right around the corner.
Speaker 2:Absolutely definitely.
Speaker 1:So let's move on, as we're starting the new season. You started your tour. I'm starting mine pretty soon. I think Dallas is starting pretty soon as well. Vegas already started. California started like January 1st. It seemed like you know one of the guests that we have on throughout the year. He's always been on here, but I know you know Roger's rules and he's been a great asset to the podcast and the tour itself. Um, so let's go ahead and bring in roger real quick. Let me see if I can figure this out. Roger. You there, I am here. There you are, roger. Welcome back.
Speaker 5:Welcome back 2025 glad to be here. Happy new year to everybody and all the listeners out there.
Speaker 1:Likewise, you know, at Nationals I got a bunch of praise for having you on that. You help so many golfers learn the rules that they might not even know, and even some of those special rules that we can take advantage of every once in a while. So I just wanted to give you that heads up. But how you been, you know what's new for for 2025, rules wise. What do you got for us?
Speaker 5:I've been good. I haven't played a whole lot of golf. It's been pretty chilly on the East Coast here, but I did get out on Sunday, but anyhow. So the rules only get revised actually every four years, and we all know, back in 2019 was the huge rules change, when everything changed, and then there were a few back in 2023. And really, for this year, there's not any real rules changes, but there are a few things that are clarified and there are a couple of things that changed, but really, whether we'll see these on our tour or not, it could be very rare. So there are three really in general, and I got them here. There's the. You know, when you damage your club during regular play and it's not abuse, you are allowed to use the club as it is or you can try to repair it or replace it. Well, there's a local rule that's really only used at the high levels, and this is one that we probably won't see.
Speaker 5:But it's whether it's significantly damaged or not, whether a perfect really it's really done on the pro tours, whether they can replace that club or not.
Speaker 1:And what?
Speaker 5:happened last year. I don't know if you all heard about this, matt Patrick, he had a crack in his club face.
Speaker 2:Yeah correct.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and he was not allowed to replace it at the time, but they changed that rule now. So they figure a crack in the club and it was just a slight crack, but they figured that's significant and now they can replace that club. So that's one of them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember that one. They took like 30 minutes just to get a rules official to figure that one out.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, yeah. But again, that's a local rule and a lot of times I've always said, prefaced my thing, that we don't use. You know, when I talk about the rules I'm assuming there's no local rule in place, so that's probably one. Then another one is about these you know, these putters that are self-standing putters.
Speaker 5:You cannot use the self-standing putters to align or show the line of play for the whole weather. I've only seen one guy use one of those so far, but it basically that's another thing they put in for this year and it's it's really not a rule, it's just a clarification of what you're allowed to do with that club, okay so would that be putting the self-standing club in position and then kind of walking around it to make sure that it's lined up just the way you want it to be?
Speaker 5:exactly, yeah, just like that, yeah, line it, yeah, yeah, and then that still won't help me. Gave it off, that's still have you worked on your putting this I?
Speaker 1:have, but I don't think self-standing yeah yeah, it still needs a miracle right.
Speaker 5:Um, then the. There are a few more. The other one is when is a scorecard? Again, this is a lot of times it has to do with the pros when is the scorecard considered returned? And you know, sometimes players may make a mistake. They're still right by where they sign the cards and all that, and maybe within five, once they leave that area it used to be. Once they leave that area they can't do anything about it, but now there's a new rule where I think it's 15 minutes, they're allowed to still make. Somebody notices a change this came up with. There's electronic scorecards, people could see that thing, or maybe he did something wrong, so they're allowed to correct it.
Speaker 2:It made more sense, just looked like a common thing so that was a big thing at an amateur event earlier this year, was it not?
Speaker 5:I, I think it was yeah, that's yeah something, and I know it happened on pro tour too, yeah, so yeah, that's crazy um those.
Speaker 5:Uh, there's also. There's also a few other little ones, but I won't even get into those. So those are the three major ones, though, and and again, even those being the major ones, they're. They're little, but I won't even get into those. So those are the three major ones, though, and and again, even those being the major ones, they're. They're really not rules changes, they're just clarifications of what can and can't be done, right, and I just want to say, like so the you know, this first podcast of the year. Hopefully we'll get a bunch of new people listening to this, and this is going to sound, maybe it might sound silly, but for for new golfers, what they need to know about our tour is we play by the rules, like you know and it might sound so like obvious, but you know you swing and you miss this such an easy one.
Speaker 5:We're going to count that. You know, and I've seen it happen.
Speaker 5:You don't tap in your pot, you, you know. Or you just tap it in and doesn't go in. You pick it. Well, you're gonna, you have to tap it, you have to finish the hole out, just obvious stuff like that is what I think new golfers need to know that our torque plays by the rules, except, you know, the triple bogey rule, except for the champ flight. So that that's. It's just good to know. And I think the new golfers they need to download or everybody really needs to download the USGA app just so that they have it. So for reference, it's the easiest way to get the rules and easiest way to look something up.
Speaker 2:Now, I was about to ask you for a simple resource, but that's the perfect one for sure.
Speaker 1:And I mean whether you're a new member or not. Don't be afraid to ask your playing partners if, if, uh, you have a ruling and if you four don't know the answer, there's always that two ball rule. That right pretty sure most tours um across the country play, so play the two balls and figure it out the end. I always say 90 of the time you're gonna end up with the same score anyways.
Speaker 3:So it really won't matter.
Speaker 1:But I am disappointed that if your ball's in a divot in the fairway you don't get to roll it up because there's some courses. Man, it's like a landmine out there, a landmine field. You're going to end up in divots left and right, right, I mean, like I said, with us playing or starting to play. Now you know we do run into a lot of winter golf, right um, and with winter golf I know I do it.
Speaker 1:uh, gave done a couple times for sure we do lift clean place right, um, especially if it is a course where there are a bunch of divots and it's just the grass isn't growing. Yeah, I would hope me and gabe would know how to explain lift clean place. But uh, give us your interpretation on that. Um, you know, sometimes it's a club lane, sometimes it's a score card. Um, that was the big thing.
Speaker 5:So I was gonna say, like for new player, always be sure to listen to the announcements before the tournament start. I know our tour director lyle, he makes, but people in the back they're not listening and and what happens is just exactly what you're saying. He might say it's a scorecard length, or he might say it's a club length and people are like, well, what they get out to the course and they don't know.
Speaker 5:And they got to call, they actually call they'll call me because they got my cell, or they'll call Lyle or they'll, you know, ask the group behind them. So yeah, so for lift clean in place, first of all it has to be announced, that has to be in place. It's not, you know, it's not just because you're out there and it's raining or it's bad conditions. What we've done on our tour a lot of times is, if it's cart path only, then Lyle calls it lift clean in place. That's often what it is, just because the only reason it's cart path only is because the conditions are bad.
Speaker 5:But not always, but sometimes it's even more than that Makes sense. So you lift, clean and place, and then also, with regard to whether it's a club length or a scorecard or what it is, what area of the course are you allowed to do it in?
Speaker 5:You can impose a local rule that it's only cut to fairway height or less or you could do it in the general area, which means like through the green, like whether it's in the rough, it's in the short grass, it's in. Well, we won't talk about bunkers, but you know, anywhere can you lift, clean in place and basically you should mark your ball. But it's not required that you mark your ball, but in order to get that scorecard length or one club length, it's probably great idea to mark the ball, lift it, clean it however you like and then you would place the ball within one club length or one scorecard um. And it's up to the tour director whether they want to use and it doesn't have to be a scorecard or a club length.
Speaker 5:It could be whatever he could say one foot or whatever it is but scorecard is an easy way to do it, Right.
Speaker 1:And just to clarify you said place, not drop. No one hand behind the back type of thing you can place it. The reason I bring it up up because I get these questions and, like you said and I'm pretty sure gabe gabe can can attest to this you know we do the rules, we do the best job we can to announce it as loud as we can. And the second we get to that first tee box, especially us playing directors.
Speaker 2:You get that text message hey, we do lifting plays Home calls for sure.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 5:Yep, definitely Yep. Beginning of the season. There's so many questions like that, yep.
Speaker 2:Roger, you hit on something a little bit earlier that I think across the tour is something that we should really encourage, particularly at the beginning of the season, and that is to be comfortable enough to ask your playing partners for information if you're not sure about a particular ruling, a drop or relief or whatever it may be. A lot of these guys have played for a handful or several years and have a pretty good understanding. But then, like Chris mentioned, there is that two-ball rule if you guys can't come to an agreement. But the idea is not just to create a really nice competitive environment to play golf, but to also learn the game and be able to, you know, glean off of the guys that are around you, because you can learn from anybody.
Speaker 5:For sure. Yes, yeah, that's definitely. And you can't feel like you know, if somebody says something, don't feel like they're trying to get at you or something. They're just trying to teach you something, or you know, maybe help you out, even give you something that might help out your, your you know, not advice. You know I'm not talking about advice, but the right, the right, right, right way to proceed.
Speaker 2:But there are some. There are some rulings or relief options that are actually a benefit that, if you know, if they're trying to help you out with that, it would be pretty wise to listen.
Speaker 5:Oh yeah, if they're trying to help you out with that, it would be pretty wise to listen. Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, I was going to mention like knowing the definitions is, as a new golfer or new to the tour, is very important too. The definitions of things like what is a penalty area, and you know what does that mean and how does that affect you. You know what is ground under repair, these type of things, because what you can do and you may get free relief versus not free relief, you may get penalized one stroke versus two, and knowing the definitions and the rules of golf are really, I would say, for a golfer that gets the USG app, they can go through all the rules, but the first thing they should do is just go through the definitions to learn what things mean within the rules. For sure.
Speaker 2:Gotcha.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean you know, if we do bring up the play two balls regardless, mark your golf ball and make it clear so people know. And if you are going to play two balls, make sure that they have different marks as well or different numbers or something, so you don't have that confusion. You know if you, if you hit your ball and then you hit a provisional ball and you're like, oh wait, they both were number two.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Which one's, which you know. We got to go with the provisional ball. Yeah, we, we see it happen all the time and and you, that's not the fun part to have to give them that information.
Speaker 2:Definitely, not Absolutely.
Speaker 5:So, chris, you had asked me like a definition about you know, these playing conditions in the beginning of the year, wet and soft, about embedded ball, yep, so an embedded ball is when the portion of the ball is below the ground, of the surface of the ground, and whether that ball is you know. Sometimes you can look at a ball and you can just tell that it's embedded.
Speaker 5:Other times you know it's going to, you are allowed to lift and move, check out to see if that ball is embedded. So once you determine if it is embedded, what is the procedure? So the procedure is you find the place directly behind where it's embedded and then you're allowed a one club length drop from that spot. So embedded balls happen a lot in the spring in this bad weather that we're having. So that is the embedded ball procedure. You find the spot right behind it and you get one club length of relief from that spot and you drop the ball. You don't place it and you can clean the ball as well?
Speaker 1:yeah, okay with that. Does it have to be the complete ball?
Speaker 5:half the ball breaks the surface any, any part of the ball that breaks the, what they call it, and it's really nice, like I said that, uh, the app, it shows you three different pictures one with the ball just sitting on top of the grass, one with it just breaking the plane of the, the, the ground, let's say the, the dirt, and then one with it totally embedded and they show you how that is so, just at any part of that ball doesn't have to be more than half, like some are like. Is it just touching the out-of-bounds stake or just touching the penalty area stake? This one, as long as any part of it is below the surface, it's considered embedded.
Speaker 2:Got you.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Let me give you this situation because it actually happened to me and I was pretty shocked. So hit the drive right, we think we know where it went. We go and look and sure enough it's. We can't find it. So in the area that we think I went, drop a ball, lost ball, all that good stuff. And we drive a little bit forward and we see the ball embedded. It was like three-fourths embedded in there. How do you feel that could have been different? If that is the case, could we have said that that was a provisional ball until we get to where we're out of range of where it could be? What are your thoughts?
Speaker 5:on that? So did you say you dropped a ball because you didn't find it and it was embedded?
Speaker 1:Correct, we dropped the ball because we couldn't find it, so we took. We took the stroke and distance and then, as we drove forward a little bit more, we found the ball embedded after already hit that.
Speaker 5:Okay, If you'd already put the other ball in play right.
Speaker 5:It. Um, sorry, there's nothing you can do at that point. Now, if you had dropped, if you had done something, hadn't played that ball and your three minutes wasn't up, it's. It has to do with the timing and whether you had put that other ball in play or not. And, yeah, that's a, that's a tough one, because it reminds me of yeah, you just you put another ball in play, maybe because it was in a penalty area. You drive up and you find your ball two minutes later. I mean, yeah, within that ball, it's, it's, it's a, that's a tough one. That's yeah, that your ball is now out of play. The original ball is out of play and you have to play the one you dropped because you've already put it in play yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's that hard pill you have to swallow at the end of the day. But I was just curious, since we're talking about it and you know it might happen out there.
Speaker 5:And you drive up and you're like no, I found my ball here here. It's halfway in the dirt. Yeah, that's, that's a tough one. Yeah, um, another one.
Speaker 5:I was thinking about, uh, for this time of year and actually I played on sunday and here in virginia beach, it was about it was 40 and sunny and in the sun it felt great. I didn't even have a coat on, I had a turtleneck on, but where the trees hadn't the two trees, there was still some snow. We had some snow here two weeks, about a week ago, but on Sunday you could play golf and the course was actually pretty busy. But snow and ice, what are they considered? So we're playing our first Tidewater Tour event on February 8th up in Williamsburg and there could be some snow or ice on the course and if that's the case, you can treat snow and ice as temporary water and you get free relief from that area. So out here on the east that's abnormal course condition, that's what that's called, and if your ball ends up there, you're allowed to treat that as temporary water and get free relief on the closest spot. No, closer to the hole, of course.
Speaker 2:Roger, I got a question. This is one that does happen kind of often and I've heard 11,000 different ways of interpreting it, so hopefully this won't take too much time. I think it's pretty cut and dry, but it's a pretty common thing. Right around the edges of the green, when you're just on the fringe, if you're right behind a sprinkler head and your preferred would be to prefer, would your your preferred play would be to put the ball, but the sprinkler heads are in the way. Do you get relief from that?
Speaker 5:so there's a local rule the ball and the sprinkler head have to be within two club lengths. Uh yeah, two clubs. If the local rule is in play, then you get relief. If not, you just have to play it as it lies, gotcha.
Speaker 2:And I heard and understood the two club lengths and I wanted to make sure that that was correct.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and both the sprinkler head and the ball have to be within that two club lengths. Yep Gotcha. So yep yeah, because, like, let's say, the sprinkler head is within, you know, it's a yard off the green, but your ball is four yards back, right, and that wouldn't count.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 5:Wouldn't be able to apply it, but both of them. And they do just the tournament. This past weekend on tour I saw that happen and a guy got relief, free relief because they do employ that rule on tour.
Speaker 1:So that would be something that we would have to put into play.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I don't know in our tour manual if that's in there or not. I don't think it is.
Speaker 4:I'll make note.
Speaker 1:I'll make note and send it to the uppers.
Speaker 5:Gabe, it's funny you say that because it comes up a lot for us too. Yes, guys think, oh, they get automatically, get relief, but more more so it's when just on the line of play like the four yard thing that I was talking about they think, oh, that sprinkled heads in my. It's like sorry, that's not the case you're right, gotcha yeah work on the chipping game. Absolutely Jeez.
Speaker 1:That Texas wedge sometimes comes in handy over here. Right, right Roger any last things that you might think you want to bring up or any tips for our new members. Me personally, I've had a lot of new members come up thanks to our challenge that me and arizona have, um, which is awesome, but also we have to remind them hey, we, we, we're not your sunday group that comes out in plays right we.
Speaker 1:We play everything to the t? Uh minus the triple bogey max rule, so anything that you can think of that might help out.
Speaker 5:Yeah, just that. Don't think of and I've said this before don't think of the rules as to penalize you. Try to think of the rules. Like David mentioned too, there are a lot of things that rules can do to help you out too. So learning the rules can help you as well as and I'll give you an example the whole back on the line, relief. A lot of people think, like with a red penalty area, they're thinking well, all I get is the two club lengths.
Speaker 5:Well, I could use the back on the line relief and this is just one example. If you have a favorite club and you hit your your gap wedge 85 yards every time, you could use that back on the line relief to drop it right at 85 yards and you've got yourself the best shot that you you feel comfortable with. So just thinking you know, don't always think of the rules to penalize yeah absolutely yeah, I use that all the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't, I don't want to hear anything from from gabe when I go play in arizona because I'd be he's like you're 110 out. No, I'm going to 150 because my 7-iron 150 is smooth as butter. We're going with that one.
Speaker 5:Like butter, I like it.
Speaker 2:The only problem, chris, is you usually have about eight or nine of those around, so that's the problem. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, Roger, we appreciate you coming on. Thank you for taking some time Absolutely. We can't wait to see what comes throughout the year and some time, um, we can't wait to see what comes throughout the year, um, and, like I said, everybody loves it when you're on. Uh, so you better keep your material fresh, because they're listening and they love it.
Speaker 5:I appreciate it, guys. Yeah, I love doing this and I appreciate your uh support with this as well. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Good luck this year and we'll talk soon, okay.
Speaker 5:Okay, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Let's take a break from the show to hear about strixon's zx mark ii irons.
Speaker 6:A great iron set needs more than good looks. It's got to be fast and gotta be pure, but good looks never hurt either. The all-new zx mark ii irons from strixon gabe.
Speaker 1:You know, like I told roger, it was crazy. It's been a crazy experience to have people come up to you at like regionals and nationals and say, hey, you're the podcast guy. But it is kind of sad when, when you say, hey, you're the podcast guy, but I really love the rules segment you guys have, and it's like, wow, people really love the rules of golf. It's okay, um, but it's great to have him on because the guy is a smart guy, especially when it comes to golf.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the players really want to learn the game. And you know, when we first started the El Paso tour I think you were around already at that point but we actually did a couple of rules seminars before our very first event.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And you know it's actually something that I wish. Uh, we would take the time as directors to try to put together more often, particularly for new members. You know, use it as a, as a recruiting tool, as you're, you know, holding a little seminar with rules guy, going over different things, so that players are comfortable asking questions during the rounds when they first to get started, because jumping from playing with your buddies to competitive rounds of golf is a big change. There's already a level of discomfort with that, so the more comfortable we can make players as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1:I think it's better for them For sure, and I mean there's so many rules I think. Besides Roger, I don't think anybody else will memorize all the rules, not even the tour players, unless they're trying to weasel their way out of getting a free drop or something.
Speaker 2:There's a handful of things they know a little bit more than maybe they do right um, but it doesn't hurt to have the app on on your device now.
Speaker 1:Um I know gina when I went to her regional she had stacks of the rules book that she gives to her members anybody who wants one to give them a rules book, and I, I think that's you know it's a tool that we can use to, like you said, grow the game, because that's what we're here for to help grow the game in a competitive standpoint.
Speaker 1:it's not a charity event, it's not. You know, we're going out there playing with our friends, like it is competitive, and we all go out there to try and win, but at the end of the day, we want to grow the game Exactly. It's great to have him on. There's some of those rules I should have probably enforced at the Ryder Cup, but that's neither here nor there you host a Ryder. Cup. Yeah, I know, you have it right there, dude. I know we talked about it.
Speaker 2:There it is.
Speaker 1:I'm glad you didn't put the score on there yet, though I appreciate that. I didn't have enough ink because there's some big numbers. You know, last episode, tim had to bring that up and he asked how it went.
Speaker 2:Did you change the subject room quickly?
Speaker 1:I tried to, I really did, but but you know, I it's just fun, dude, it's fun, and I wish we could do it once a month, because that's how much fun it is. Um, but I want to, I want to throw you under the bus real quick because, okay, um, you know, we had this conversation and then, uh, out of the blue, I'm gonna say my cart was amazing. Uh, it was great on on day one when the sun was going down, because apparently people were following me with the lights on. I didn't even know. Yeah, but uh, then you start sending me pictures of the belt randomly and, uh, that that's what team competition is all about, because, uh, I, I myself, when I go visit you guys wear it proudly like a wwe wrestler. Um, and now I gotta pay my dues and I'm not looking forward to it's, it's got a name, it's it's the, the year-long chris rocha torture tour.
Speaker 2:Um so, any event, every, uh, every post that we do, you know, look in the corners of the pictures that you see, and you're probably going to see the belts work around.
Speaker 1:So that's that, you've challenge accepted, challenge accepted. But uh, tell me, you know, after this episode drops, you've already had your first event at Sahuaro. You know it's a great time. I know you know we have Daniel Wigg and Jordan Isaac that are kind of taking, you know taking the reins now. But how do you feel this season's looking for you, any exciting events that you have on the schedule that you kind of want to promote?
Speaker 2:Now's your time, my friend. Yeah, you know. So, for us, the, the, the thing for us that we've, you know, focused on or has been a big, a big point for us for years now. I think we're going on four or five years in a row now where we've been the lead and we want to keep it, and that's the fundraising for for the v foundation.
Speaker 2:Right, umically, we had to make a change in the date of our first event of the season and I don't know if it was one of those fate kismet whatever term you prefer to use but all of our fundraising, we make donations in the name of two former members, roger Tamietti and Sean Downs, who we lost the day before our kickoff event last year and, ironically, because of the date change that was required.
Speaker 2:It wasn't something that we planned, it was just a scheduling conflict that caused us to move our start date, you know, back a day to the 19th.
Speaker 2:It was actually the one the one year anniversary of Sean's passing, and so you know the, the focus for us, while we have some great events, like our dual tour event that you and I do together, um in two back, which is one of our big fundraising events, as well as the regional and a couple of new um, a major championship championships that we have, one in Sedona stands out for us. The fundraising is where it's at for us, and so we use the anniversary as a launching point for our fundraising for this year and we're going to challenge anyone and everyone that's listening to join us and try to make as much of an impact as the Golf Week Amateur Tour as a whole can make, not just this year but every year moving forward. We'll be sharing some stuff and we hope that other tours will join us in what we do, but for us, while we have some great events, the fundraising for us is the big thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, and you do a great job. It's shown year after year, thank you, and you do a great job. It's shown year after year. Um, thank you, but I mean it's just, you know, one of my favorite events aside from my schedule okay, any of my listeners listening aside from our schedule is our tubac event. Uh, one, because you know it is middle of the season, right?
Speaker 1:um, some of the guys may have not seen their arizona friends sensual rider cup so it's a great time to uh to get together, and you're at a resort where there's literally nothing to do but hang out yeah you know, after the round you're either hanging out on the patio or you're walking your dog and you see x, y and z on the patio and hey, come for a beer or a drink, or hector's got his tequila bottle somewhere. Um, are you supposed to or not? Whether you're supposed to or not, uh, yeah, it's a great time and uh, anybody that's looking to to play a major outside of their tour I would, that'd be one. I definitely recommend uh, but then you the, the history of it too.
Speaker 2:You know they filmed tin cup there and right, of course, the the the resort takes outstanding care of us, um, and you know they filmed tin cup there and, of course, the, the, the resort, takes outstanding care of us. Um, and you know, one of the things that you see at this event, um, that you don't see, I think for the most part, is it's a, it's a real family environment, um, after the rounds are done, or you know when dinner's done, or whatever it may be, you've got kids running around. You know playing around where, where the cows are and you dogs and all of that good stuff. I mean it, the vibe in that place is different than anything else that we do all season long.
Speaker 2:Um, the competition is is fierce. We've had playoffs the last handful of years and and 70, 80, a hundred players at that event every year, um, but but the reality of it is is that that's really a time to decompress. It's a weekend where everybody seems to decompress, kind of rejuvenate and get ready for the, the final stretch of the season, as we get ready for, you know, season finales and national championships and all that good stuff, I mean, and then you have, you have tpc right around the corner, which is still one of the bigger events, bigger, bigger regionals in the country, and I mean you put a top-notch show.
Speaker 1:I appreciate that. I mean, you guys run it like crazy and I know I help a little bit with scoring, but that has nothing to do with the background stuff that you guys have to do and the fundraiser that you do there. I mean it's one of a kind but we have great partners.
Speaker 2:You're one of them and your entire crew and all of the group that you bring with us. You know to us. But again, when the focus is on trying to put ourselves in a position where we're helping as much as we possibly can, it's amazing how well our groups come together to reach goals that we've set, and we've set more goals this year and we hope to meet them. But you know anybody that comes around, anybody that comes to our tours, they're excited to help, they love what we do and they jump in and help out as much as they possibly can, and I think that's what our entire national tour is all about.
Speaker 1:Right, definitely. Lastly, you know you just came back from the Vegas regional. I did Did see your scores and you know everybody's score was high.
Speaker 2:It happens in Vegas. States of Vegas.
Speaker 1:With 50 mile an hour winds. Yeah, it should stay in Vegas from what I hear, um, but I want to ask you because I know you understand what was worse that one or my Red Hawk event a couple years.
Speaker 2:Oh, it wasn't even close. Red Hawk I mean anybody that's ever played with me knows that that I hit a pretty good draw, especially off the tee and when you're when you're aiming for the as a left-hander, when you're aiming for the right side of the fairway and trying to hit a big hook and it's still getting pushed all the way across the left side of the fairway. Nothing compares to that. Um, it was cold. The wind was blowing 40 or 50 miles an hour constantly, with gusts bigger than that. Uh, what we had in vegas this past weekend I will take every day of the week and twice on sunday I mean, but it was, it was close competition all the way to the end in all the flight.
Speaker 2:We're, we're, we're, gladdened for punishment, but I remember that event vividly and it was a blast yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:I was watching from from home and and man, it was nail-biting the last four holes. And then I know B-Flight went into a three-player playoff. One of my guys had a chance to win and we could have gone two out of the three, but I think he lost on the second hole or something. And then we got our C-Flighter to win, which is awesome.
Speaker 2:Arizona took a couple home as well. So, yeah, no, but but great competition, great camaraderie, good. We did some fundraising there as well for the V Foundation. That turned out well.
Speaker 1:All in all, great weekends it's a great way to kick off the season for sure for us west coasters, because I mean it would be nice to go and play Harbortown, but that's too cold for me. That's way too cold. Well, bud, I appreciate you being my co-host this episode. We'll definitely have to make it or do it again sometime this season, because it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Great time for sure next time you don't have to shave. Okay, I can tell you it's a fresh shave on there, but you don't have to do that just on the sides. This is a little stubby here, but yeah, is it the gray hair or what?
Speaker 2:There's. There's more than a couple of gray hairs in there.
Speaker 1:Well, but I you know I can't wait to go out there and see you. But good luck this season and keep that belt warm because it's coming back to daddy pretty soon.
Speaker 2:Looking forward to it right thank you so much. I appreciate you, my friend likewise you.
