Jon Watkins ON: Managing Life Transitions

David is joined by Jon Watkins, a coach and resilience trainer, for a conversation about managing life transitions. The discussion explores his sudden and unexpected transition from the UK Special Forces to the civilian world and the advice he gave to a professional rugby team about the highs and lows of moving from an elite performance environment to everyday life.  

It is candid, insightful and paired with his blog at https://www.resiliencetraining.co.uk/managing-life-transitions/

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Transcript

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Hi everyone. My name is David Ogilvie and this is the podcast where I explore what it means to live feel and work better. This week my business partner John Watkins joined me to discuss life transitions and his experience moving from being a special forces operative to the civilian world. The lows the frustrations and the advice he shared with the professional sports team about dealing with life transitions. I hope you enjoy it. So we're off. We're off John. Welcome to the very first podcast. It's our very first podcast. So my name is David, David Ogilvie from the Resilience Development Company and it seems a little bit weird kind of saying hello to you John seen as though your John from the Resilience Development Company and I see you every day. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I wonder if we have we ever recorded ourselves doing this before. No, we must we must have recorded a Zoom? Probably but we've said many times we should capture our conversations. So this is the this is the start but isn't it for the ResDev as we are known to our friends. ResDev team Yes. Yeah. I notice it's only after we set it's our only after we've had the conversation that we say. Oh, we should record it. That was really good. Yeah, we never say it before do we so hopefully haven't cursed ourselves with this one. No, so it's the first right but we define resilience as the ability to positively adapt to change. So we just have to positively adapt as we go and if they're any bloopers and that will just make it even more funnier and of awkward than it feels. Yeah just being human. Yeah, right. So, um, I think what we thought we'd do is we chat around your blog. You recently wrote a blog after visiting a professional rugby team and the blog was about chatting to the team about your experiences in terms of transition and your journey and offering advice. And it was pretty specific because of your background so I suppose it's probably worth defining what a transition is, right? So from your perspective, how would you define a transition versus change? Yeah, so typically when people go through a change, that's all we focus on isn't it? Just focus on the change a moment in time where something changes within your environment. That's generally how you can see change. It's sudden. It's immediate, there's a definitive time frame you can attach to it. Most people most people will recognize that well, they don't recognize as a transition that happens after the change. So the change that immediate date but the transition is how you adapt to the change psychologically so mentally emotionally and socially how do you adapt to the change and that's the challenge that people from my previous profession the military, Elite Sports people, new parents, people in retirement. That's that's the challenge they face when they go through those big life changes. How do I adapt mentally emotionally and socially to this new environment. Yeah got you. So transition is internal changes is kinda external. know. Yeah, that's it. I've got you so Why would anybody from a professional sports team listen to you about transition? Tell us about your background. I obviously know your background. So I understand why they'd I understand why they'd listen to you. But for people who are joining us and listening to this, they're probably thinking, you know, what does he know about transition? And what is it about his background that got in front of a professional rugby team. So it's tell us a little bit about your background job because yeah, so like everyone I've gone through lots of change in my life. Lots of lots of big transitions, but the ones that particularly interested the Jersey Reds were when my military background so I left university. That's a big transition into the military. I then then made the transition from the Royal Marines the Special Forces and then I made the really big transition out of Special Forces back into the civilian world and that's what they are particularly interested in making making that making that big step from a high performing background back into the civilian World. It wasn't the only transition I went through I actually went through almost a double transition because I went through a life changing illness at the same time. So I had I had two things to adapt to. A new way I had to live and a new way. Well two new ways I suppose I had to live. So yeah the double transition that's what they particularly interested in and as we've already mentioned our job now deals with transition. So there were three aspects to it. They were particularly interested in hearing from me but in particular as I said, it's it's the one about the military giving them some advice and that's what their focus was. How do you successfully survive? Yes. Royal Marine first and from the Royal Marines into the Special Forces Posted all over the world? Yes. Yes. Yeah typical military career bouncing bouncing all over the place. Yeah. That was it. Very enjoyable. But very different to to a normal life I suppose that's the key, isn't it very very different. Because you are quite open in your blog about your health issues. Aren't you? Yes, yeah. Yeah, so it wasn't the transition you were expecting? No that happened pretty suddenly and again, like anyone that's medically discharged. You have to kind of deal with that and you're just sort of getting to grips with that and suddenly find yourself in the outside world having to having to deal with that. But yes, you know, my life changed completely not overnight happens slowly but the diagnosis was was instant and then it's adapting to that and constantly having to adapt from the sort of 93 kilogram Olympic Athlete to well, I couldn't even walk up the stairs towards the end, before I got the diagnosis. So yeah, that's a pretty big change isn't it? Massive change in mindset. Go out and do five days worth of fizz running 8-12 miles every time you go out and do it to well walk the dog twice the days about all my energy will allow me to do so. Yeah, that's big change. Yeah because you describe yourself as a 93 kilogram mountain goat didn't you? Yeah. I was yeah because that's where you were in the moments all Yeah, I could just run up mountains for fun. That was it. That's how fit I was. Give me a mountain. Give me a lot of them. I could run up them for fun. Didn't have to think about it. Off I'd go. But as now, I stop about five times on the way up, on the way up the stairs. That's Fitness. Yeah, that is fitness. But I just realistically I couldn't get back to that stage anymore because My health wouldn't allow it. The minute I pushed the boundaries too much then, then I recognised I relapsed. So have to be very mindful now of learn that over five years of really managing my energy. So yes, and that's that's a transition that's still ongoing and you look at yourself in the mirror and you're piling on the pounds you go. No, I can't go, you know, I can do something about it. Of course you can but I can't I can't can't dedicate the time and energy that I used to be able to. Yeah, that is a good example of the difference between change and transition isn't it? Got that you leave the military, an elite performance unit, but you still going through that transition that internal kind of journey, mentally and emotionally. I know that I work with you everyday, we're all doing that. That's a great example. So you left the military and then what? I ended up in a hole actually ended up. It's a bit stagnant of two three months looking for a career. I might you know, so I left I left the military slowly over 12 months because I was recovering from the illness. So I wasn't really an active service. I was I was just recovering in and out hospital and I took 12 months and then sort of the end date arrived in May and then it was about three months before I found a job. I did whatever else does try and try and find a job try and find my place. I've moved back to Jersey. I was starting a new life there. I say back to Jersey. It wasn't I was starting a new life in Jersey as well at the same time. My family and friends were there and we'll we'll cover that some point I'm sure in in the next the next few minutes and then I ended up in a career that I thought kind of suited me. It ticked a few of the boxes interestingly. I was told not to do it by everyone who knew me and I started there in the September and I didn't last very long. I wish I wish I'd gone earlier but I didn't last very long. I think I lasted maybe about four months and then my illness crept in again. And I just as I said in the blog, luckily, I fell physically ill because I think not far behind was mental illness. And yes, and then I left that that was that was the nudge I needed to leave that career and I ended up bumping into some northern guy. And coming on board. Actually wasn't we met in a year earlier didn't we went through the program about year earlier? But yes, then then came on full-time at ResDev. So yeah, because you don't talk about meeting me and coming on to ResDev in the blog, but you do talk about that kind of where you found yourself. Because particularly what I found interesting was not only where you found yourself but this perception because I have this perception like many people like you've had millions of pounds spent on your training. You're an elite performer. You're a special forces soldier. You're supposed to be a get dropped in anywhere aren't you and just be able to deal with it surely? Yeah, but you never really talk about about that and there's a specific insight that I'm hoping I can draw out of you. Yeah, I know. I'm assuming I know the one when you mean I like it liking it to a polar bear and I'm assuming that's the one that you're thinking about. It's just a similie that hopefully people relate to but you less is less assume. We pick up a polar bear. We take it away from the Arctic. It's a cold barren wasteland and we we place it in the Gobi desert another cold barren wasteland. Would we expect that polar bear to survive? No, not really. It wouldn't last for a long at all because the challenge ultimately that many people face when they make that transition especially from their primary career into a secondary one. It's that changing environment and having to completely adapt to that new environment. And yes, I was trained to adapt very very quickly and lots of different circumstances and the selection process I went on was deliberately designed to test that. You were expected to be picked up and thrown into parts of the world that was well, exceptionally challenging. 30 40 degree heat 100% humidity and then operate and to an exceptionally high level and selection tested that and those people that couldn't whose body couldn't stand that even if they were technically good enough. They didn't they didn't make it through. So yes in some respects you're expected to adapt instantly. But the way I explain it in the blog is is your adapting within the environment that you know. That's the key you're within an environment you know, you're trained in you've been through training. It's got you prepared for it. But what the training doesn't prepare you for is a completely different environment full of different habits beliefs and behaviors. And that's what you find yourself in often when you make these big transitions you go into an environment that.... well you're not used to and that that's the challenge and adapting to that and as I explained in the blog, it's actually You know when you think of someone you talk about resilient person if we explain if we if we went through it now if we went through traits of resilient people and if I'd asked if I asked the listeners, you know, what would you expect from someone who's resilient able to adapt to change and then thrive through it they'd list things like optimistic positive. Focus on what you can control and those are all absolutely right and I was trained to do that. But if you ask me how I did it I won't be able to answer that question. My answer would be well, I just did it. And those are all tested and tried within a controlled environment that's training. Train hard, fight easy. But soon as you find yourself thrown into this completely new environment with a new set of habits beliefs and behaviors. You can't do that. You need to know exactly what you need to do. You need to know the skill and be able to to name it, list it, explain it do it and I was never trained to do that. I was just tested to make sure I could do it without actually knowing it. So that was that was the interesting journey. So yeah, thrown out and as we've already spoken about it's a transition that did me. The first week was fine. The first two weeks first three weeks was fine. It was over time that you started to notice it and actually and anybody that's been through a transition even you know, even let's say parenting which majority of people have been through and I'm talking particularly to Dads here, Moms, be a little bit easier because they've they've carried the birth child for nine months, but Dad suddenly presented with this child. It's eight months later that you finally realize that you've adapted to having that baby. And then you're a dad and it's no different to what I experienced. It wasn't the first three weeks. It was six months later that I realised I was struggling. People had been telling me for for weeks and months that it wasn't me. I wasn't me. I was unhappy I was exceptionally stressed but that built up very very slowly. So I wasn't able to pinpoint it and it's that transition. Yeah, it's not the first month. It's six eight months down the line and I'm sure you experience it when when you became a dad for the first time. Nothing prefers you for being a dad and not even special forces training. No, that wouldn't no. Nothing prepares you for being a dad does it? It's that nine months later, isn't it? That's what it is. Yeah. Those first few months. He just caught in the headwinds, but you suddenly when everything slows down and you just recognise where you at, you're suddenly it's eight months before you for your comfortable in that new environment. Yeah, that's the experience. I've had talking to a lot of people my peers at the moment. That's certainly where is at with dads and talking dads here? Yeah. I'm being a pro or just any transition and change. Yes, you know a process it mentally and emotionally because I remember I remember when you first came on on the program you said What can you teach me about resilience and my responses? I don't know. I don't know but I think there were things that you took away right we can talk about it definitely things that you took away and it's always interesting when we meet people and we talk to people how we differentiate mental toughness and resilience. Because it's clear of I'm not saying that's purely what it is. But there's a lot of that in in where you're coming from in your background wasn't that mental toughness, which can work again work for you like any strength, but all over played it can start to work against you and that's when you need those all the skills to really kind of understand who you are and process who you are. Yeah, I feel exactly right. You've heard me say a million times before, you know looking back now. I describe myself as mentally and physically tough or mentally and physically robust with resilient traits, but I couldn't name the skills. So if you can't name the skills, you can't use them are you 100% resilient? I had resilient traits, of course, I did but that that biggest test where you have to adapt to a new environment. Don't get me wrong. It's incredibly challenging credibly challenging test that whip you out of the military and put you into something completely alien, you know, I didn't didn't have those skills to enable me to thrive. And it comes at cost as you said, you might not come at the cost to you. That's the thing that some people don't recognise. It might come at cost to the people around you your relationships. So and that's certainly what began to happen to me. I got stressed, you know, incredibly stressed, but I was okay with that. I suppose you came across tomorrow relationship with Charlie girlfriend at the time. And certainly my my peers are supposed to be working with. I couldn't work with them was the ultimate answer. I just could not work with those people. Finding that transition tough and really I suppose, nobody to work it through. If you've not got the skills and the language in the shared language. You have to kind of almost put up and shut up. That's exactly what it is isn't it? Which is very military and I speak about in the Vlog isn't it? You just get on with it you fight through you just force yourself to keep going because you know, you've been through tough times and the way you've dealt with them is generally with physical and mental toughness or robustness. But when you're dealing with emotions, you can't just you can't just fight through can you? Because they catch you at some point and as I said luckily Luckily it was my physical health that dropped, because I'm sure it would have been mental. Yeah, probably a month two months later and well I couldn't can't put date on it but it was it was getting that way. That's that emotional labour, isn't it? We all have to do things. Right we have to do things and say things that go right against what we truly believe our values and that's that emotional laboor and you quite right, all the researcher says if you continue to do that and we all do it some days we have to do it. It's part of being human and you know working and living with people is if you carry on all the research say it leads to depression. So there is that definitely that health health link, definitely. I know and again. Oh working with you like I do. I know you're always passionate about skills and training. And you're always drawing a differentiation between coaching and training and almost saying you can't you can't achieve an outcome if you don't have the skills, if you haven't been trained. So for example, no amount of coaching will help. So when you were working with the professional rugby team was it coaching was it training or it sounded like it was a kind of this is these are my experiences. This is what I've learned but more than that as well. Yeah, they're a few things. I think a few things I shared but it was it was more these my experiences. Yeah, absolutely and see where you go with it almost so yeah. Yeah, we speak a lot don't we, you know getting out in front of people and talking for an hour is is useful concept start them on the journey, but we all need that training. I think my favorite quotes is We're all vulnerable. We're all we're all vulnerable to the same human deficiencies that cause a drop off in all of us. So no matter where we go at some point are you know being human will catch up with us at some point. So you need the skills to be able to manage those situations. So ultimately I would recommend everyone goes out and gets these skills get some training get some coaching to support them. But in this case it wasn't that it was an hour. I shared some some things with them and then left it with them. Really. From my experience. Just reading through the blog that were two big themes that you shared with them. Yeah. One of them was Look backwards not forwards. That was the first one. Can you talk about that? Yeah, so based on my experience and talking to some of the people that the that I've worked with in the past. You know, we have a habit of going. Okay. This is where I'd like to be in 10 years time and you build from where you are now to that point. So you start to take one step at a time, which we're very good at in the military and Elite Sport. Set yourself a goal and you start to move towards it but what I found is that it narrowed my focus. So I just came obsessed with a job really getting a job that I thought kind of suited me and just pushing towards that I kind of new myself reasonably well and knew what made myself tick and I headed off on the consultancy route and I started to go down the usual route everyone in my unit started to go to which was you had to London first, then you try and build up the relationships and networking and that environment. But ultimately got it very wrong in some respects. Luckily. I did fall ill and ended up back in Jersey in hospital there and I could start that transition all over again.Because I probably would have got it very wrong heading in London because like the polar bear it was a totally alien environment to me. You're gonna find it. It's a transition you're going to be in a new environment, but why make it tougher for yourself and I ended up in in London in a big city full of big crowds in a hamster wheel, in a world that was all about technical skills really which is not necessarily what you're going to offer when you eave the military. And what I wish I'd done, which is what I suggested to the team was, you know start with thinking right. Here's my leave date. So you've got a plan ahead depending on how long you've been in probably requires a bit longer preparation that you go. Here's my end date. Right one day after that. What I want my life to look like? Where do I want to be living? You know, what's my family because that's the other thing. He's gonna consider a big transition. The family are making it with you. Whether you recognise that or not, especially in the military incredibly tough for the families to suddenly have you around 24/7 for example. What do I want my family to look like? What sort of job? What's my lifestyle? All those really important questions that you don't necessarily consider when you get caught up in that in that big whirlwind of I need to find a job. to find a job, which is essentially Which is essentially what you've got to do because you're looking for a new job. And so I made the mistake of looking outside of what we call our stability zones. People, places, ideas, things, groups, that bring you comfort and security. So act as a nullifying impact when you go through periods of stress and particular change. And I looked in London as I said big city big crowds, but my lifestyle was lived on the beach. I ran up hills. I ran up mountains. I was on my kayak in the summer. I didn't like large groups. I liked small intimate settings. That was me. That was me as a person. I was not suited to London in any shape or form and I would have made it incredibly difficult for myself by going into London. And actually I think you know this. Yeah, I don't have the data on this but When I left those sort of five or six people that left with me and everyone headed to the city. And I think even a year later there was only one left. I know for a fact there's only one left now just just didn't suit us. You just think what a waste of a year how much extra stress that's caused and pressure that's put on probably the people around you as much as yourself. So I ended up in in Jersey as I said by fault not by design, but it worked for me. Because I was in an area that was small it was personal and then I could get to know people I didn't have to rely on technical skills. I didn't have to get a job and to climb the ladder. I was by the beach I was bought by some cliffs, by hills, open land. I could do everything that was me. And I think that was that was really important. So yeah, my advice the team was you know, don't just get caught in that hamster wheel running towards the target stop and think, what do you want that world to look like. Because you have more control than you think and that was a big message really. That was the first message anyway. Yeah, working more towards your own senses of... because it links kind of to the second point. Which was absolutely. Yeah, and it's one line. I love the line. Know yourself. Pause. Really know yourself. Yeah. Yeah, I think we have a habit don't we. I was lucky I did I know myself. Possibly better than some. I don't know why, but I knew what made me tick. I knew the difference between being a royal marine and being in the SF and why I thrive more there and I did in it as a royal Marine. Because it enabled me to come through. The language we now know as character strengths but back then it was just me. What I'm good at ...enabled me to come through. So that was really important. But yeah, we have it. I kind of know who I am. And I got that bit right? I kind of knew who I was, I knew what made me tick. Good judgment, good perspective, put a lot of energy to fault finding so consultancy would be the natural progression. That's what I did at the unit. That's what I did particularly well. I looked at things we needed to improve and I went about and did them. Wrote wrote some papers on how we should improve some key areas. And so I thought well that's easily easily can move that across to the city world. But actually, if I delved a little bit deeper and got to know me a little bit more I'd have realised that that wasn't in process and procedure. It was people that suited me much more. And I think knowing some of the stuff I now know would have been incredibly useful back then to really understand you and we're talking specifically aren't we our values with our values, our character strengths and therefore what drives us on a daily basis and we're back to your emotional labour. Because if you get that right you're not carrying emotional labour around with you and that's the bit I ultimately got wrong. I knew myself but I didn't know myself well enough to recognise that I was walking into an environment that would be so contrary to everything that I had been brought up to and that's what the military training does, you know brings you up, creates you into this person and that was teamwork, value, judgment, perspective and I was just I was put into a hamster wheel which is ultimately going to completely drain my energy. Which it did. Yeah. As you're talk there I'm thinking of something that we know in our programs and we know because we're both professional coaches is if you've got that clarity of thought that clarity of thinking, it gives you that confidence to commit. And if you've got that emotional labour or you can't quite work out where you are. Then you don't have that clarity. Which impacts your confidence which means you can't commit and I'm kind of what I'm hearing as I play it back is that's what you got as special forces soldier, You had that clarity. So you had the confidence to commit and earlier on as you were talking I was looking around the screen. I was moving from one screen to another there's a brilliant quote in the blog that kind of think it sums up everything you've just said and it's your quote, right by you to thrive. You'll have to learn to adapt to that new environment. More precisely, it is adapting your habits, beliefs and behaviors and that's the ultimate challenge. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I mean anyone that's read anything on a transition from from sort of an elite performance world, you've got loads to offer just like anyone anyone that making that transition to that new environment. You've got loads to offer. The challenge that we had, in particular in the military, is while I was a royal Marine. So it was what nine months of basic training and for the first three months technical skills were imparted on you. Very very simple, very simplistic level because what they were really doing was they were transitioning you from a civilian into the military. That continued all the way through training and then actually into the unit, you know, it really was you know, it's two two years plus in a unit before your proper Royal Marine I suppose. But then when you leave it's, it's instant. It's just a change. There's no transition. It should bump you're out. Go. And then you're expected to be able to make that transition back in terms of the way ou you think, feel and behave towards that environment, i.e. your habits beliefs and behaviors. Yeah, that's incredibly incredibly challenging if you're not shown how to do that. Yeah, we know that because I think we've said this before you've not said it like this, but let me ask you a question. Yeah. Okay how long in total did it take you to train to become a special forces operative? How long? Oh, wow, so well, I started started at the beginning of Royal Marine training. I suppose that's where that's where you're starting it operational tours. Yeah. I was lucky. I spent two and a half years in the Marines some people spend five six before they go go into that environment and then it is a selection process, but it's not just that you're also You're also adapting to a new environment and being trained to operate in that new environment. So in total, probably what, four years at least in the military before I was badged, but you never, again, you never in, until you've done a full rotation, which was two years. So, you know, that's it. Six years really at least. Six years to become a soldier. And how how long in terms of years training did you get from becoming from a military to civilian? Oh, there's there's none is there. They do the usual things that yeah, there's the usual things we talk about here's how to write a CV here's how to do a little bits and pieces but it's the bit we've spoken about it's not the change that's the problem. It's the transition. So how do you adapt to those new environments? And that's the challenge? Oh, yeah going back to the quote. We've got loads to offer. Loads and loads of skills to offer. The challenge is you have to adapt to that new environment. It's different. It's that polar bear again. You know if he just took the same behaviours he had in the in the Arctic and tried to replicate them in in the Gobi desert. He'd be dead in weeks. He has the core strength that he needs i.e big strength, the big nose, the big teeth to survive in the Gobi desert. But he needs to adapt the way he thinks. His habits. His thinking habits and his behaviors in order to do that. And that's no different with the military and that's where I struggled in that first job. It's just too too big a leap. Way too big a leap for me and I couldn't do that and the end you respon the only way your body knows how which is why your brain knows how which is this is a massive threat to me. So here comes some stress. Because you very open on the blog, right? I know that you are very open right? And I remember talking to you after you've been to speak to the the professional rugby team and I'm assuming you were just as open with them, right and almost not probably what we're expecting because in many ways you are, like if I'm in a room with you it's obvious. If you said he's ex-special forces. It's obvious you are really tall you kind of, you know got that that kind of physicality to you physically if I look at you. Yeah. Okay get that right, but then suddenly you've got that and you've got somebody talking and almost saying things perhaps that go against what people assume and know. How did that go down? How did that advice and that talk go down with them? Well very well apparently because I invite me back about two weeks later. to talk about something different. So obviously well. I think the way I finished it, you know, there's there is that common phrase especially in the military The Grass Is Always Greener. I don't leave it because it's hell out there. You think it's a better place, but it's not and that's not true. You know, I left them with the grass is whatever colour you decide to make it. That's not entirely true because it's you know, you need some luck. You need some training, some coaching to help you to ultimately thrive but there's opportunity out there. So it wasn't it wasn't a negative. There's lots of good things and lots of people make very successful transitions without without doing anything I don't think I've come across anyone yet. And I mean that generally who have not found it difficult. That haven't found it difficult. That first 12 months. I remember the first two people I spoke to said you won't last in your first job and the first 12 months will be hell. And then I met another x-military person said I won't employ you. No chance. Because I know you'll quit. I'll employ you if this is your second job. Not if it's your first because that that's it it is we come back to it. Loads to offer. But you need to be able to adapt your habits your beliefs and behaviors and that's not what you're trained to do. You're trained to be a person and it's the environment and drop you off. But you don't have to change the way I think feeling behave when you move around that military environment. And that's the bit. How do you do that? Well, we know. back to know yourself. Well, we know we do a module on it. Character strengths don't we? And the number of people that you ask and you speak to, especially one on one, where the go.. "I kind of knew this." Yeah, that's the point you kind of knew it. But you need to see it down on paper with a full sentence explanation of exactly what it is and that's that's what I mean by don't just know yourself really know yourself be able to articulate it. Really clearly. I think that's one thing I put in my blog, you know. Know yourself? Not your technical skills. It was a great blog very open. And very kind of surprising not surprising because I know you have worked with you for How long now lots of years right but I think it will challenge some people's view of military and and that's what I love about it. It's kind of going you've often said I've often heard you say the difference between good and great is the really small things. It's the small things and executing them really really well and that skill. It means it's repeatable. Right and there are many skills in motionally mentally are they that we're just not taught at school that me and you now know and teach that other people and I so I completely completely get what you're saying. So I was the same, you know, my story is this was my wife's company. I came out of the finance industry and I went on the program and I was like, oh So many things have just connected in my head now the things I do intuitively. I now know actually it's a skill and it can make it in a skill and I can share it with people and you know, that's what we we love about doing what we do. Because kind of what we're talking about really is is resilience, isn't it? And there's another blog it's probably another it's probably another podcast, another chat, about the three different types of resilience. What number one is that natural resilience? We just kind of born with it. We all have strength. We all have different assets of resilience. And if you say to most people.. well you tell me right? If I said to you in your military career on a scale of one to ten? How much natural resilience do you have? What would you say John? Oh, it'd be very high. Yeah, I mean eight nine. Yeah, and that is that second type of resilience. I call it kind of adaptive resilience where you learn it the hard way. You go through adversity. You're challenged, you're stretched and you somehow managed to come through. You generally look back at it through a lens of strength and you're able to kind of interpret and make meaning from it. So you can bring that to other scenarios. And if I said to you again right in your military career how much adaptive resilience do you reckon you had on a scale of one to 10? I suspect it would be high again. It's the basis of all military training. Right. And then is that's what you doing inside. Yeah. Yeah, I would say three times that third type is restored resilience. Skills based So in other words when your resilience is dipping, you got the skills to be able to kind of increase it right? And that means you can either bounce back and we won't even get started on that or go from good to great and if I said to you, with hindsight now, looking back when you were in the military. How much of that restored resilience did you have? A skills base that could you could switch on and use when you needed it? Where would you have rated yourself on the scale of one to ten there? Oh, I'd be much lower. You're talking three four, aren't you? Yeah, the military as we've spoken about the military. Most people it's the first two isn't it. The military what makes them stand out and Elite Sport is the training, the second second type of resilience. Yeah and they do it really well, because most people don't have that restored resilience. I didn't Yeah. I relied on intuition And even going back to where we talked about being dads as well, is both of my kids who are older than your son, have been on the resilience program and I'm so glad they have. Because they have this, that shared skills, and I sudder to think where I would be, you know with teenagers. My kids are older now, but teenagers and beyond, if I've not had those skills to rely on. We are kind of back to the whole point of us existing as you as a company. We could wax on forever. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah wax on for everybody to be trained in these skills. Yeah, life's full of transition. Yeah, it's a shame we are just not taught it at school. As simple as that. One day...one day. Yeah, exactly. So if anybody wants to find the blog we'll put the links up. We'll make sure that wherever you're looking at this or whether you're listening to it because it is a video and a podcast that you're able to get it but there's plenty of blogs that we've all written. resilience training.co.uk click into articles and given that it's your blog Jon, beautifully written, have you got any last point that you'd like to make before we finish up our first ever podcast. Oh. Good question. I think read the blog. Just read it. See what you think. Engage with it. Let us know what you think. We could stand here and be wax lyrical about lots of different things. Go out and get training, get coaching. Just read the blog. See what you think. And then come talk to us. Yeah get in touch. Well happy to hear get in touch. You're on LinkedIn and Twitter. Probably the one bit we haven't spoken about actually was the quit piece. That's always an interesting one, isn't it? Yeah, the things aren't working for you just quit. No. Joking. Don't do that. Um, but no just have read the blog get in touch and see what you think. That is always an option though. Isn't it? People assume resilience is just keep moving. Absolutely. Your story was stop, recharge, look around and you know, I wish I'd quit lonf before I was forced to quit. Yeah, which is always an interesting approach because it's not a natural thing I would say. There's so much in there, so much we have picked up on. Right? Plenty more and hopefully this is the start of lots of conversations between us as a team because this will be the first time anybody's ever heard of us. Um, there are four of us. So a plan to kind of get some really great conversations going between the four of us, but also get some some guests in as well and get them talking about different things. So don't think we've done a bad job for our first attempt have we? Seems all right, proof of in the pigeon pujin proof me in the pudding. We'll see won't we? Yeah, see. See what happens but it's going to be our first so it's another first for us. That's it, adaptive resilience here. Here we come. Well, I'm gonna say thanks for joining me, but I know I'm gonna see you later on but so exactly thanks for joining me. I'm soon. I'm sure we'll do some wonderful things with all this stuff and and edit and do all sorts of things and get it out there for people. So if you're listening to it, you're probably listening to the edited version. I hope everybody's enjoyed it. I hope you subscribe to the list that we'll set up and this is the first of many Thanks for listening to the Resilience Development show. I hope you got some value from the episode. If you'd like to read John's full blog head on over to resiliencetraining.co.uk forward slash articles or click on the link in the description to go straight there. You can also get access to many other articles on resilience with lots of instant tips that help us all live work and feel better. All of these things can be found by paying us a visit. Thanks for listening and see you next week.