Thunder Hooves: Healing and Skills in the Saddle

A thousand-pound teacher tells no lies. At Thunder Hooves—a Houston-area veteran program—equine therapy meets practical job training. We explore moral injury, the myth of control, and how a sunrise in the barn resets the nervous system. Through weekly four-hour sessions, veterans gain grounding, confidence, and employable skills in landscaping, carpentry, and barn operations.

https://rainbowofhopetexas.org/

Chapters

• 0:00 Cold Open & Houston Veteran Vibe
• 4:20 Marine Corps Journey & Deployments
• 10:40 Building Veteran Synergy in Houston
• 16:50 Introducing Thunder Hooves & Partners
• 22:45 Moral Injury, Nature, and Reset
• 29:30 Meet Daviana: Horses, Music, Therapy
• 36:20 Horses: Myth vs. Reality
• 42:35 From Welding to Equine Therapy
• 49:00 Thunder Hooves Program Structure
• 56:20 New Curriculum & Skills Training
• 1:02:40 Early Outcomes & Veteran Stories
• 1:10:10 Funding, Community Support, Events
• 1:16:40 Collaboration With Veteran Orgs

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Next is Charlie Mike, the podcast. Veterans Helping Veterans, talking about things happening in the veteran community, things we've experienced and overcome, such as addictions, PTSD, depression, legal trouble, and we also promote veteran-owned businesses. If you're talking about it, we're talking about it. This is Charlie Mike, the podcast.

SPEAKER_02: 0:41

I've known we've we've communicated quite a bit over social media, and uh people would ask me, you know Joe? So yeah, I know Joe. I felt like I knew Joe. Yeah. So it's good to actually finally meet you, man.

SPEAKER_04: 0:52

Oh no, I I agree. I have I've been saying this for a while since actually I moved back into the Texas area. Like I grew up here, right? So I grew up in Southeast Houston. So Magnolia, you guys would know that, right? Yeah. The hood. Yeah. So I I grew up there. Um, and then I just had the the kind of like the privilege to to move out of the neighborhood, right? Like and to see a little bit of the world small at first. I just went to another state and went to high school. And then I just kind of realized, holy sweet, there's more than just my blocks of the hood. Yeah. Right. And it opened my eyes to that. And then from there, I was like, well, what do I gotta do now? And I've joined the Marine, the Marines. And then the Marines was like, at the time, I was it was a good time to join. It was just after uh Desert Storm. Um, I think the only thing that had just happened was like Somalia had just gone down with the with the Rangers. So my deployment, my first deployment was to Somalia, and it was just like a security force. We didn't really do much. We did, we went in, we did a few like kind of patrol stuff, we set up in an area, then we just pulled out. It was like not a lot, it was more of a contingency. I did some really cool, um like a really cool long range reconnaissance ride because we were the trailer platoon. I don't know if anybody knows how Marines are broken down, like but I was in a Mew at the time, uh Marine Expeditionary Unit, special operations capable. That's like the cool way of saying that they train Marines to do cool missions. Um, and we just happened to be the platoon they trained as trailers, which are the guys that follow um force recon when they do direct action, like hostage rescue. So they picked our platoon to go on this thing. All we did was ride on this cool helicopter. We went way over someplace, came back. So that was like it. But at that time, training was awesome. We did so much great training, so many really cool stuff. Um, and then obviously I thought I was at Marine to get out, so I got out, joined the reserves, then 9-11 happened, got recalls, stayed on active duty forever, finally moved back to Texas just before the pandemic. And being here, I recognized like there's this like synergy in the Houston area of veterans.

SPEAKER_03: 3:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 3:05

And I just got plugged in in different areas, like just met these people here early on, these people there. And I don't know, I I like to feel like that there was a vibe, and we all planted seeds within each other just in those kind of small times that we met, and then everybody went off and did their thing. And here we are a few years later, it's just this expansion of veteran stuff. And it's funny because like I'll go places and oh, I know that guy, and they'll go, Oh, yeah, they know that guy, Joe. Or do you know Joe, or do you know Raul, or do you know uh Will, or do you know, I mean, all kinds of different people, right? Right. Uh and I just think it's cool. And now I think there's this opportunity and time for us as veterans, especially with uh we haven't started yet. Are we just talking? Yeah, we're just talking. Oh, okay. Yeah, good. No, we haven't started yet, but I think there is this huge opportunity for the veteran community to really you know we're recording, right?

SPEAKER_03: 4:00

Oh, were we? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 4:04

Yeah, yeah. All right, go very quick. I just think I was like, wait, what?

SPEAKER_04: 4:10

Well, that's okay because you're gonna we edit. I don't know. Right, right, right, yeah, yeah. Although leave this in because it's a goal.

SPEAKER_02: 4:15

Yeah, it's in your uh You had me kind of confused for a minute.

SPEAKER_04: 4:18

I was like, Yeah, I think there's this great opportunity coming up in the Greater Houston area with um Fleet Week. Now, this is the first time I've actually said this out loud that I think this is a great opportunity for veterans to really highlight our community and pool together somehow, somehow, whether whatever kind of organizations that we have to really find that collaborative effort that they do in the military. Yeah. Right? Like I like to look at all of these organizations in Houston as different units in the military. Like when I retired uh out of the military, I got out um from one meth. So I was uh in G3 training, uh future operations. So like a lot of that was strategic kind of level things that you get to see that you don't normally see as a grunt. And I just think it was a kind of a privilege to me. And I got to recognize how the military actually is really cool in the way it works. It is literally, if we compare it in the military, it is a series of companies who have a specific focus and mission unique to them. They have a CEO, they have a board of directors, they have line supervisors that have a specific job to do. But they are also able to pull those assets together, which are just different companies, and say, hey, let's collaborate to accomplish this huge goal. So now you have different companies who have different people doing different things that go, hey, we're gonna pull all of our resources and and all of our expertise together in this combined joint task force and we're gonna improve this. We're gonna go through this and we're gonna do it. And they do it. And I just think that with the amount of veterans that transition and are in the civilian world, why don't we do that now? Like, why do we focus so much on well, we need to fix the DOD, we need to fix the VA, we need to fix this. No, what we need to do is pull together and create more combined joint task force. So uh that being said, that brought me to where I am here today with Diviana, with uh a Rainbow of Hope and specifically Thunder Hooves, which is the we're gonna talk about Thunder Hooves today, but it's it's really when I say Thunder Hooves or Rainbow of Hope. And even for me, when I even talk about Warrior Spirit, which I believe you had Gabe and Ashley on.

SPEAKER_02: 6:43

Oh, amazing people, man.

SPEAKER_04: 6:44

Yeah, absolutely. So for me, this is an umbrella of organizations that are doing really great stuff, right? So for me, um all of them are are like the same. They they're separate organizations, but they actually pull together to really pool stuff and and empower people, right? Right, right. Right? So Thunder Hooves is the veteran branch uh of what I would say their programs, right? Um it's the one that's gonna do some of the job skills training, um uh some of the the the equine stuff, which Deviana here does. Um but it's gonna do a lot of the job training and and thanks to a warrior refuge, which uh I think you've heard of them too in another organization, um, they're actually sponsoring a part portion of the Thunder Hose program to provide skill training, right? Um so that's what we're doing for Thunder Hose, which is all the skills training, all of those kind of things. Um but for me, like all of that stuff is really cool. Like I think there are so many things that can train veterans on skills and processes like that. Um, and it within these programs they're important. But a lot of times I think veterans are already trained in skills, right? Like I think it's the soft stuff that we work on. But what's great about what Thunder Hooves, Rainbow of Hope, Warrior Spirit, and literally the ranch itself, that location does is I believe it helps reset. It helps um and if you you've had probably people come on your show and talk about a bunch of different stuff uh about growth and healing. Um and one of the biggest things I think veterans go through is the war the moral injury. And for me, I think stewardship and when I say stewardship, that goes to caring for the earth, caring for animals, caring for each other, um, and just reconnecting with nature resets that moral injury, right? Because there's just the innate nature of service, in my opinion, that creates a moral injury. Whether you uh went into combat or not, whether you executed your mission as uh as a combat veteran or not, um the idea that you would execute that mission, and let's face it, the military's mission is to at least for Marines, locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by fire and maneuver, or to repel the enemies at all by fire in close combat. Right. And you get praised for that. And get promoted for doing those type of things. But that's an innate moral injury, right? Because I don't think people were made to do those kind of things to each other. So just the fact that we live that lifestyle for anywhere from three to thirty years sometimes, yeah. Man, that's tough. So the reason I like this space and what these guys are doing is it just offers a space, man. Sometimes just going out there and just walking the grounds and just being reconnected because it's like this really cool space. Like you go out there, there's a little bit of everything. There's some wooded areas, there's a lake, there's the horses, right? There's some pastures, but it's just kind of like a nice space to reset. So um, yeah, I I think I've rambled in that.

SPEAKER_02: 10:06

No, no, man. So no, it's why I wanted to get to know more about you. So you're you're yeah, you're you're Marine, you're you're originally from from Houston, yeah. Moved out of state uh for the surfs.

SPEAKER_04: 10:17

No, I moved out of state to go to high school. You moved out of state to go to high school. Went to high school in in Pueblo, Colorado. Pueblo East Eagles. Go Eagles. I love Colorado. Hey, well, you know, football season's coming up and we have a rival game. Uh we play for a canon over there. So um, if any of my Pueblo East High Eagles are going there, the cannon will ring gold again or fire gold or whatever.

SPEAKER_02: 10:39

There you go.

SPEAKER_03: 10:40

There you go.

SPEAKER_02: 10:41

So so that's cool. So you went from California, I mean California, Colorado back to back to Texas.

SPEAKER_04: 10:46

I went from Colorado to the core. Uh-huh. And then there I spent the majority of my home stations with First Marine Division or one MEF. So uh primary duty stations would be out of Camp Pendleton. Okay, okay, Camp Pendleton. So either there or uh normally you deploy either to a Westpac um or um what they call just uh a UDP, which is a unit deployment to Okinawa. So you first Marines, which is kind of funny. There's a uh I don't know if I'm gonna talk about organization of Marine Corps too. So anyway, there are three divisions, right? But uh one of the div uh three MEFs. One of the MEFs is is in overseas. Um but what they normally do is they staff parts of that with other units. So part of First Marine Division normally goes over and they spend six months in Japan as part of three MEF. Um and then you do another small deployment. So either Camp Pendleton, Okinawa, or wherever in country when you know operations started, we would go. But yeah, so I did that and then came back to Texas after. Nice, nice. You missed it. You missed Texas, huh? Oh man. You know, I gotta say this. Look, uh look, I I've really come and firmly started to believe people are gonna go, ah, this guy. I but it's a new belief. The grass I believe is greener wherever I go because uh I just think it's about the attitude that you bring with you, right? Like I know people bash California, but man, God, it's such a beautiful place. Uh and for me, it's always the people, right? And I just think I've always God's always been able to put really cool people around me, right? Uh and I say really cool people because they weren't always necessarily good, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like great, but they were cool people because I learned something and it it just helped me grow. Right.

SPEAKER_03: 12:43

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 12:44

That's awesome. I want to learn a little bit about you. So it's Viviana.

SPEAKER_01: 12:49

Daviana.

SPEAKER_02: 12:50

Daviana.

SPEAKER_01: 12:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_02: 12:52

Okay, yeah. Well, okay. So tell me a little bit about you.

SPEAKER_01: 12:56

Uh, so I have been in the horse industry, I mean, from a very young age. I started riding when I was seven, had my per my first pony by like eight or nine, in the show ring by 11, uh, competed for a long time. I rode uh hunter jumpers, western, all kinds of stuff. Um just in the past, I guess, like five years, I've been getting into the more uh equine assisted therapy side of things. So I am a certified EAT instructor, and I am currently working on being a mental health peer support specialist as well that we can add to this program and our repertoire of things that we offer. Um, I am born and raised right here in Houston, Texas. Um, same thing, grew up out in the gudo. Um, you know, uh didn't have anything like handed to me growing up or anything like that. And it's kind of funny that you use the term like cool people because they're not always good. I often think that that is what makes people people's characters. Yeah. You know, you you have to make mistakes in order to learn from them. Um and so yeah, I mean, I've I've lived a pretty colorful life. I'm a musician, I'm a bass player in a heavy metal band, and a lot of people would not expect that out of me.

SPEAKER_02: 14:17

And so you get like a calm, relaxing time with horses and then rocking it out.

SPEAKER_01: 14:23

Yeah, yeah. And and I I often, you know, go go anywhere, like just as me. You know, that's why I've got my piercings, I've got my tattoos, I'm just very authentic these days. Um that's one of those things that grounds me is just being unapologetically myself. I love that word. Yeah. Um grew up around the horses and music almost my entire life. So that's always been a super big thing for me. And I think where I really started getting more interested in therapy and horses is because, you know, I had to really work hard for everything that I had whenever we were showing and whenever I was competing with the horses, because, you know, my my jackets were hand-me-downs, my boots were hand-me-downs, uh, my saddle were my saddles were used. Uh, even my horses, like they weren't big, fancy, expensive horses. I had to work so hard every single summer training my horses up to this certain level that I could compete on them. Uh, so I just really worked hard for everything.

SPEAKER_02: 15:37

So you've always found comfort in horses?

SPEAKER_01: 15:39

I have. I have. Um, I would say, you know, by the time I could talk, I mean, I'm pretty sure like my first word was probably horse or I've always loved them. I think that they are incredibly intelligent animals, um, but also powerful. And and I resonate with that, you know. Um, I don't call them harmless, I call them peaceful. Absolutely, for sure. They are capable of doing some damage, but uh they they often choose not to. They choose to avoid it. Um, and like I said, they're just they're incredibly intelligent, uh riding them in in certain disciplines, like doing hunter jumpers and doing eventing. That was such an adrenaline rush for me. And I was such an adrenaline junkie back then. So, you know, flying over a four-foot fence at mock Jesus.

SPEAKER_04: 16:34

So I I had a question because I I think we talked about it before, Diviana. Like, um, I've always thought horses have some type of evolutionary connection to people. Like, um, have you ever noticed in your work when people come out to see horses and they've never been around them that there's kind of like a cool connection that comes, right?

SPEAKER_01: 16:54

I mean, have you there is, there is. Um, and while I I love the idea of spiritual connections and things like that, there actually is a very like scientific and reasonable explanation for why people feel that way. And it has to do with a lot of our Hollywood movies and the way that that Hollywood has made horses out to be. And you gotta remember, you know, horses have been around for a long time. They've been a huge part of our entire existence. Um, but you know, since the invention of the vehicle, now the horses are riding in the back. We're not riding them, you know, we're driving them, we're driving Miss Daisy now. Um, so with with the the way that horses have become more of a privilege to have, right? People spend less and less time around them. They're such a large animal, you need large space for them. So they're not in suburbs. They're not going to be in your cities. The closest thing that you might see with that is like mounted patrol officer. Um, so when people actually get out around horses now, I think that they forget what they were actually like in person. Like movies and TV just mysticizes them and really paints a very, very uneducated and wrong picture of horses.

SPEAKER_02: 18:17

What do you what do you mean? Tell me a little bit. Like, okay, so you say the movie.

SPEAKER_01: 18:21

Yeah, like they're not really all that vocal. Okay. Um, horses almost tend to be kind of avoidant of interaction as much as possible. They just kind of want to do their thing. They they're they're kind of clicky too, you know? Like they like their little herd. Um, sometimes you'll see somebody new coming out into the pasture, and the horses are kind of looking around and they're like, let's go over here. Like they're a little shy.

SPEAKER_02: 18:47

That's the one I was telling you about.

SPEAKER_01: 18:49

They're a little shy. Um, and and I think that people also forget like when when we are raising horses, how much work goes into making a horse this wild, untamed thing into this gentle, like puppy dog, lap dog type of horse. It's so much. It is so much that goes into discipline routines and things like that. Um, and I I enjoy that kind of work, you know. But again, yeah, people, people, I don't think that they really understand like how horses really are, just in character and their natural disposition, the way that they think, you know, because they're a fight or flight animal. Um, if they can't run, then you know, they're gonna start boxing. So you gotta be careful.

SPEAKER_02: 19:42

Did you always know you were gonna end up working with horses? Was it something that just came about, or since you were little, you knew it?

SPEAKER_01: 19:49

I always wanted to.

SPEAKER_02: 19:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 19:51

Um, and so obviously, you know, whenever I was a teenager, I I worked a lot of summers with my trainer to try and pay off board for my horses or or get other opportunities to ride horses. And and I went to these training seminars and stuff like that so that I could start learning how to teach lessons and how to train horses. Um, but you know, sometimes things don't work out. So I I left that idea for a little while and I was actually a welder for like seven years. Yeah. Yeah, I was a welder. I I did uh, you know, fabrication, I did structural pipe, all that stuff. I worked in plants, worked out at uh like Basso Global was one of my favorite jobs that I had. That was a really fun job. That's cool. Um, but yeah, so I did that. Um I used to be a mechanic for like Home Depot. And so I just went and did other things. And then I wanted a break from that whole like industrial side of work. It was a very draining and taxing thing to do, especially like being a woman in a man's world at that time. And so I took a break and I went and just got like a this little side hustle job uh working for another trainer. And then I just took it from there. I started working with other trainers, building my reputation. And then I started looking for places that I could either like rent stalls out or rent space out of, or maybe somebody needed like a head instructor, head trainer if they wanted to get started on something like that. And that was actually where we we started this. I was looking for a place to start my business, and then I ended up uh working with Jack and Ann with this whole program.

SPEAKER_02: 21:36

So how long have you been working with them?

SPEAKER_01: 21:39

Oh, I've been out there for I think about four years now.

SPEAKER_02: 21:42

And you're involved with both both programs?

SPEAKER_01: 21:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 21:46

And so tell us tell us a little bit about both of them.

SPEAKER_01: 21:49

I want to learn about and the difference. Yeah, so the Thunder Hoofs program is an eight-week program, and it is it is structured to not only like are we focusing on some of those soft skills, like you know, just finding your peace and finding your place where you are meant to be and where you want to be, things like that. Um, it also focuses on some of those job skills. So uh there's actually two different types of programs that we offer too. We're just now implementing a new one that focuses more just on job skills, right? Anything like related that we could do in the barn. So we're, you know, we're bringing like wood shop classes to this. We're bringing the the work with the horses. Our farriers are willing to come in and talk about being a farrier and doing farrier work, stuff like that. That's the person that trims their feet and shoes yes. I was like, let me let me plug that in there real quick for anybody that doesn't know.

SPEAKER_04: 22:50

Um horse manicureists.

SPEAKER_01: 22:54

Yes, yes, the horse salon, um, the horse nail tech. Um so um we're we're implementing all that kind of stuff and hoping that we can offer like more certifications and more ways for veterans to like, as much as I love my guys, it's like bye, please don't come back. It's one of those things. We we don't want to just just have the the same people in this cycle. We want to get them jobs, get them back on their feet, get them in housing, things like that.

SPEAKER_04: 23:26

That that's a good point. That was one of the things that I that that as I watched some of the other processes that try to help veterans get transition. But see, here's the thing though, the idea is not just veterans anymore. It's it's uh there's a few other groups that we're looking at, right? The first responders, medical personnel, things like that, right? Um but um it's the continued support, right? Like uh I think there's a lot of like she says, we want to get them in and get stuff that uh sets them up to continue on, where they don't have to keep repeating a process. Like maybe they might have to repeat something else, but at least it won't be a specific set of skills that we worked on, right? Like uh let's continue to grow. I think the the the thing is is uh for veterans and at least for anybody, really, uh healing is a continuous it's uh it's like chow when you're in the field, it's continuous. Right, right, right. Growth is continuous, learning is continuous, there's no end stop to it. And um but we don't want to keep repeating the same pattern. So I think that's what we really want to focus on. And and and I think the again, the place is just perfect for that.

SPEAKER_01: 24:43

So anyway, yeah, it's it's it's a very gosh, how would I explain it? It's I know like the the first couple of times that that I stepped out onto the property, like especially living there now, because I live on site and I I have like my little camper in the back, and that was a huge thing, like downsizing into this little tiny house that I have now was a different experience, but I let go of so much clutter and crap that I was seeing around the day. Um, and I just I got up the first morning of staying there and I opened my door, and there's two of the horses just sleeping outside my door, and I see the water, and there's a fog over the whole pasture because it's like six o'clock, seven o'clock in the morning, and I'm just drinking my coffee, and I was like, I couldn't hear any traffic, I couldn't hear any uh people talking. There's no neighbors' dogs barking, there's none of that. It is just so far out there in absolute like serenity and tranquility. And I think that that is the thing that people like about the place. Um and yeah, just it's a place where where you can really listen to your brain and like listen to to what you really want and and have time to think without distractions, without violence being plastered all over TVs, without social media being in your face, stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02: 26:12

Yeah. So how long has Thunder Hooves been in in the works or been uh is it a nonprofit?

SPEAKER_04: 26:20

It's a yes, yes, it's a well it's a part of the rain rainbow of hope thing. So it's a program within uh 501c3. Okay, gotcha. The the the goal forward is to have actually all three specifically because there's two 501c3s operating right now. And Thunder Hooves is a program under Rainbow of Hope, which originally focused mostly on special needs. Um I don't want to say adults, but I also don't want to say children. It's like um they're they're just out of high school, like out of out of school age. So they're like that uh 17 to just out of high school.

SPEAKER_01: 27:03

Yeah, because as soon as they age out of that system, there's there's not really a whole lot that we offer people in that age group.

SPEAKER_02: 27:09

What when you say age out, what what is that what does that mean? Out of high school. Out of high school. Oh, so you age out out of high school.

SPEAKER_04: 27:15

Yeah, from what I'm learning, because this is a new, like the this what rain, like the special needs portion was new to me to learn. Like uh, um I want to I want to back up though before we go down. I want to go back up because like I love what uh what Deviana shared because it's the same thing. It's like everybody that's there right now that is collaboratively working together to build to build this out and really bring more empowerment to it, right? They've all come there the same way. Yeah, right. It's like someone says, Hey, you should go check this out. Um and you do, and you go out there and you're like, wow, this is the right spot for me. Like this is the spot, like like for me was a um I've been here, like I said, I moved a while, and early on before we all got shut down, I was making connections and I made a connection with the people over at Houston City Beats. I don't know if you know them, Elizabeth Marquez and Acosta.

SPEAKER_02: 28:15

I just met her. Yeah. Uh I think Wonderful just the other day.

SPEAKER_04: 28:20

Absolutely, dude. I met they I had met them, they were just starting the Houston City Beat. Uh, met her, we just kicked it off. Again, it's alignment, right? It's finding the people that are truly about how do we amplify good people doing good things. So we connected, I felt there was a cool connection. So we maintained that. And one day she says, Joe, you got to meet Anne and go out and see them. So I did. And I'm telling you, I went out there and I saw this thing. And um, about five years ago, like before I moved here, me and some other friends were working on a project called uh, and I still have my Facebook page up, and and and it it was a dog project, but it was uh uh canine West Candles, and the idea was a transitional work program for veterans using uh a dog park uh uh with boarding and a whole facility um and veterans teaching class to civilian people with dogs. That was the idea because that dogs increase social interaction. It's like she said uh dogs and and I think horses have kind of a similar uh thing with people, they've been around us the longest, they've been instrumental in our progression, right? Like uh either as guardians or transport or whatever, like they've just been around us the longer. People have uh misunderstood behavior on both animals for such a long time. Yeah, um but both animals are really kind of there's an innate connection. Um so that was the idea. So I I have I have a sketch that I drew. I don't know, like eight years ago. Like a sketch. I had a sketch because I did a landscape design pro. So I have this sketch, this idea, oh this is gonna have a village here and the owner's owner location here, because the idea was that the owners would still be able to live on property, and we're gonna have some farmland right here, and this is where they'd hang out. Man, I went out there and I looked, and I'm like, this looks so familiar. So I literally like I met and I love the the the whole idea of what they're doing. I felt like like my call has been community. Anything that creates community, anything that brings people together and lets us just kind of chill and kind of relax and exchange ideas innovatively that build us up, right? Right. Um so I got there and I felt like this is just such a relaxing, cool place for that. And I didn't think of it, but when I went home, I looked at my sketch and I'm like, wow, this is almost exactly what I just walked through. The only difference was that there's um horse areas. The stuff isn't exactly in the same spot as I drew it, but it is literally the same thing. And I was like, I'm supposed to be a part of this, like I just think I'm supposed to be a part of this. And um we lost touch for a little bit because we still go off and do our things, and I think the team was like, Well, I don't know, Joe's like doing a lot of things, he seems to have a lot of stuff going on, which is true, but not true. It's like um I like to try to find things to empower and grow in the way that I can, however, that is. Uh amplify it, talk about it, tell other people about it, try to connect someone that can help it. Um this is the first time I fully felt like I I want to kind of just focus. Yeah, like because it just feels like it's the right spot. And and just it just works. I think it's uh like I said earlier, um and what's funny is everybody has that same story. They go out there and they see it and they're like, wow, there's supposed to be something here. So that's why we want to invite people out more. Um we're gonna be announcing some cool stuff coming to just get people to come out, um, see the place, just to see, kind of help us grow. And and um, I think there's just a great opportunity. So the more we can get people there, I think is the better. Because that's how it is. Like you get there and you just like I'm gonna come back. Yeah, I'm gonna come back.

SPEAKER_02: 32:26

So that's that's amazing. So so with with the time that you've gone and you've felt the difference, you've seen the difference, like not just just growth in yourself, is what I meant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 32:38

Oh no, no, for sure. Because I I I feel like um I gotten to that point where I'd been collaborating in different processes and trying to do different things to empower stuff and collaborate. And um I was like, Well, I mean, I'm not sure. Is it still working? Is it not? And then this place just goes like, no, it is working because this is what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to keep doing this. Yeah, it's the next step. So it just motivated me to just keep keep on purpose, right? Like stay on task, right? That the task is I don't want to say righteous, but it's it's the right process for me. That's what I'm supposed to be doing. I don't know if that answers your question.

SPEAKER_02: 33:17

No, you know, you know, it's funny because uh when I was talking with Ann and Ann was like, hey, do you mind if Joe jumps on with us? I said, Joe, I said, Of course. I said, tell Joe to come. And she and then I just I just thought the whole like the circle was funny. It was just like meant, you know what I mean? Yeah, so so it it's great to finally meet you and talk to you and everything, man. And hear what the amazing things that you have to say about thunder who hooves. How is get that mispronunciation? Um, yeah. Anyway, so so tell us more. Okay, so so how often can people go and visit? Is there certain times? How does the program work? Uh teach me. I don't know nothing.

SPEAKER_04: 33:59

Well, well, the the the way the program goes is that uh it's an eight-week program.

SPEAKER_01: 34:04

It's an eight-week program.

SPEAKER_04: 34:05

So we get the group of veterans to come in and they will come through for eight weeks. Um it's broken down into a specific amount of hours uh throughout that week, and they'll work with the horses, which that's what D Vyana's part. And then from there they'll go on to the specific jog training. Um the only thing really holding it up is just registration. So and then like I think it's just literally it would be every eight weeks if we could get um we have like those monthly funding uh thing that you go on online and you can kind of support the program. But if we had the funding to run it, we would run it every eight weeks. Like there's no there's no stopping the amount of offerings that we can do. It's just like everything else, right? It's uh it's it's getting the right ready together. But that's that's I I uh honestly, I think that's one of the reasons why Ann and them liked me to be a part of that process because I've been in that area a while, right? I've been talking and meeting like more in the business entrepreneur space. Because like for me, when I started, like if you look at a for-profit business that that I wanted to work on and that I'd been working on, they'd always been altruistic, right? They they generate revenue, but the revenue is to support a cause or a purpose. Um early on I used to think, wow, maybe I should just be a non-profit. But what I want to do is I I I I want to show that having veterans in a program that generates revenue but serves a purpose is not about charity, it's just good business, right? So like when I first started, like I I used to think let's let's do a program that puts veterans to work um in a job that's healing and thing, but it makes money so that people go, we need to hire veterans because it's just good business. When they adapt to the culture, it's good business to have them. They they adapt easily. They if if the commander's intent is clear, they can take what you tell them and just run with it, right? I mean, I know there's that funny guy, he says, uh, all you have to do is just make sure you clarify to the veteran that you need it to be done in legal terms. Like, but if there's no clarity and you just say get it done, they'll get it done, right? So you may not want to ask questions afterwards, but the job is done. Yeah. So that really that's it. I mean, it's just there's no limit to how many times we can do it.

SPEAKER_02: 36:42

It's it's getting the funding down. Do y'all have a a date as of right now once registration kicks off that y'all will do the first eight week?

SPEAKER_01: 36:50

We're in it right now.

SPEAKER_02: 36:51

You're in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 36:53

We we just started our first week last week. Oh, wow. Okay, okay, so of this newer program. But we yeah, we were running the old program for, you know, I think we did it over a little over a year with the old curriculum. And then this new curriculum that we're implementing, we just started.

SPEAKER_02: 37:09

So how do you how do you feel about it?

SPEAKER_01: 37:12

I really like it. I think that it's it's structured in a way that is easier to keep everybody on task. And and it's like four hours once a week. So so we have a lot more time to to sit and process what we're doing. Okay. Which I really like.

SPEAKER_03: 37:29

That's good.

SPEAKER_01: 37:30

I really, really like that. Um, because I I I have this this thing that I talk about a lot with this, and it was from uh Val with another veterans group. She had come out and brought, we brought in like a hundred veterans for this big uh like dinner and an event thing. And me and Val were talking. I absolutely loved meeting her. From 22. No, no. Okay, I thought that was the wife's name. No, I mean she would talk about the five Qs. So, like your SQ, your IQ, your EQ, all of that, right? And it's it's so important to take those into consideration when you're doing this kind of work because I feel like, you know, trauma and and high stress damages those cues over time, big time, you know, and it it can make it harder for you to to respond quickly to things or to even just sit and be like, I'm okay with this, you know, or I would like to do that. Um, so having the four hours now instead of the the two hours twice a week, I think it's it's so much better. And then uh, you know, they're getting in the barn first thing in the morning and and we, you know, go through and feed horses and and do that stuff just to start off and we kind of talk. And then we'll move on to uh either working with the horses or uh one of the classes that we have set up. Um so they're gonna be doing, I think this one's gonna be like lawn care landscaping or something like that. I have to look at our schedule again. And then, you know, the next week it might be a carpentry, and then the next week is okay, we're gonna learn more about the horses and have a break from that. And then, you know, so on and so forth. So it's it's structured, but there is still that time with the horses every single morning on this property to to get that that grounding time and that processing time and that that peaceful time, that relaxation time.

unknown: 39:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_02: 39:37

So that's amazing. I did I didn't know that it was currently um in in I mean in week two. So so y'all changed it up a little bit. Um what have you what have you seen from the veterans so far?

SPEAKER_01: 39:51

So far, I think that that they like that they have more time to spend out there at once. Um I mean the the guys that are really into this, like they're like, can I just rent a stall for me and sleep in it? Like, unfortunately, no. Not yet. You know, like they don't want to, they don't want to leave. They just love it out there so much, you know. And and I'm I'm very much like an open door policy type of person about it too. I always tell my guys, I'm like, if you want to come back, like on a day that we're not doing class, I'll come pick you up from there. Like, yeah, I'll come get you. Like, or just call me, come over.

SPEAKER_02: 40:27

How far is y'all's y'all's uh where is y'all's ranch?

SPEAKER_01: 40:31

In Rocharin.

SPEAKER_02: 40:32

In Rocharin. Okay, yeah. I definitely need to make it out there soon. I've been telling myself that. Uh especially now it's cooling down a little bit.

SPEAKER_01: 40:42

Yeah, hey, we're getting into good fishing weather.

SPEAKER_04: 40:44

So the the lake is stocked for fishing, but yeah.

unknown: 40:48

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 40:49

Yeah, there's a spotted gar in that pond that I've had my eye on for a while now.

unknown: 40:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 40:55

So, so um, golly, I'm I'm excited to see what what y'all excuse me, what y'all have going. I love the fact that y'all are so wait, are you dealing with the the kids as well?

SPEAKER_01: 41:08

Yes. Okay, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:11

So um, how's your experience? I know y'all have been doing that more is for a longer period of time, correct? So, so how has that been?

SPEAKER_01: 41:20

It's good. Um I really enjoy working with all of my my special needs kids and adults. And I even if I just make like daily life a little bit easier for the moms, right? Because, you know, I I grew up both of my uh older sibling and my younger sibling are on the spectrum of autism. And so I kind of I've seen both sides, you know. I've been kind of the my my younger sister, she's 15 years younger than me. So I was kind of like second mom. I did a lot of the babysitting and taking care of her a lot when when we were young. Um, so I kind of see both sides of it. And and in the parenting perspective, you know, just trying to get out of the house on time can be a challenge if you have a kid that's kind of like stemming or or just having a bad day, you know. Uh sometimes we just hate Tuesdays in that household, you know, and we don't know why. So it's stuff like that. Um and if I can make communication easier or uh just like walking up the stairs by themselves easier or getting dressed, tying shoes, simple things like that, life skill type of things, um, hand-eye coordination. If I can make any of that a little bit better so that everybody has a easier time at home and just in daily living, that's my goal. That's always my goal. Um in the the times that I've had my students, so two of my students that I've taught for the longest, uh, you know, they were both, they're both pretty nonverbal for the most part. Um, Jonathan, I like to say that he's selectively verbal because as soon as he gets on that horse, it's like I can't stop him from talking. And then uh, you know, but um it started off with them being less verbal than than what was ideal. And then now, you know, every single morning Jonathan walks into that board and he's like, Good morning, Daviana. And you know, Abel has started to to try and say my horse's name or like my name and stuff like that. There's a lot more yes, no communication and and pointing at things and like I would like that, or I would like this, please.

SPEAKER_03: 43:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 43:37

Um, just simple stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02: 43:39

That's amazing. Where where did the name come from? Uh which the the thunder thunder hooves.

SPEAKER_01: 43:48

So that was uh Ann's husband. Ann's husband. Yes, Mr. Jack. He really uh wanted to to have a program like this a long time ago. He's been talking about it forever. And uh so whenever me and Ann were brainstorming names, uh, you know, we we had this whole sheet of paper and we were like all over the whiteboard. We were like, what the heck do we call this? And finally she's just like Thunder Hoods. Like that's what Jack has always wanted it to be. And so it was like, yeah, there you go. And I I absolutely adore Mr. Jack Henderson.

SPEAKER_02: 44:25

Um does is Jack a vet?

SPEAKER_01: 44:28

No, he's not.

SPEAKER_02: 44:29

Oh, okay. He just just got a love for the veterans.

SPEAKER_04: 44:32

I have to agree with her on that, on that thing about Jack, especially when he gets his cowboy hat back on. Yeah, yeah.

unknown: 44:41

I like that guy.

SPEAKER_01: 44:42

Yeah, I I adore him with every fiber of my being. He's just one of the sweetest and kindest people I've ever met in my life. And whenever Ann told me like Jack wants to call it that, I was like, I'm not arguing. Call it that. Whatever, whatever will make Jack happy.

SPEAKER_02: 45:01

Yeah. Oh, that's uh can you uh let's let's say we we get there in the morning. You know, what what's what's a normal day like?

SPEAKER_01: 45:09

Um for the class or just like for me. So uh normally, you know, we just start with uh, you know, hello, how are you? Let's let's go and and fill up some hay bags, let's go and check on the horses, let's fill water, or you know, let's see if they're done eating, see if they need anything, and then we'll just kind of roll right into whatever the goal for the day is. Um and then, you know, we have a break uh about halfway through. So we'll eat lunch and sit down and again that process time, um, and then finish out either by talking or maybe if there's a couple of other little things that they want to work on before the class is fully finished and over, then we'll we'll hit those points. Um, but yeah, that's a full, full day right there.

SPEAKER_02: 45:56

You know, I completely I honestly didn't know that it was more than just the horse. I didn't know that y'all were learning the other things when, you know, for for job placement and things like that. I that was something that wasn't uh I didn't know.

SPEAKER_01: 46:09

Yeah, that is a very new curriculum that's being employed.

SPEAKER_04: 46:12

It was an a a new addition to the curriculum for the the job skills training. Um to add some more stuff to it. Like uh it's it's more of like a metric thing to make sure that they're getting some type of skilled training to go along with all of the extra stuff that they get from being on the property and working with the horses and stuff like that. So yeah, I I I love it. I I love the idea of adding something because I think uh whatever you learn, you gotta add something new. Right, some kind of like additional learning, I think, is always helpful. I don't know. I haven't gone through the program myself, I've gone through the a lot of the writing stuff. I've did uh some of the horse stuff, but as far as like a the skills portion, because it's so new, um I would love to tell you what it details, but I haven't done it yet. That's my next step though. We're gonna be doing those ourselves.

SPEAKER_02: 47:08

Yeah. So so far like coming from your side, how do you you you feel the the difference, the the it's gonna work, huh?

SPEAKER_01: 47:19

Yeah, um I I see a huge difference in in all of my veterans from start to finish whenever we do these programs. Um in in the old curriculum that we did before, I uh one of my my favorite stories that I love to talk about is uh Philip. And he was a veteran in our program. He did the whole eight weeks. He came back and was like volunteering and and working with us. So, you know, because we would, I would tell them, you know, if you want to come back and you want to work like part-time, you can earn, you know, a little pocket cash because you've been through my program now. You have the horse skills. Like I need, I need a little right-hand man. I need my little assistant to come in and help me in the morning sometimes. So we did that with him as well, and he just kept coming back and kept coming back. And uh he he kind of got down in the dumps for a minute, and we were going up to the refuge to do something. And I spotted him in the hallway, and I was like, hey, you here now. I was like, You're gonna get up, you're gonna get out of bed, we're gonna do this paperwork, we're gonna do all this stuff. Like we he had this program, and I was like, We're getting you this house, we're getting you in this housing, like you're ready to do it. And uh, so I just kept texting him every day or calling him all the time and motivating him to go and like do, don't be stagnant today. It's like even if you just get up and brush your teeth and like put on a clean shirt, cool, I'm proud of you. And then uh he finally kind of got the ball rolling and he called me. I went and picked him up. I drove him all the way to Freeport to go and look at a house. He really liked it, ended up getting that house, getting his family back, and then they spent their first Christmas together and I got photos and I was just like that's gotta that's gonna be an amazing feeling.

SPEAKER_02: 49:04

That's gonna you you said that they got chills just you know, just uh hearing the difference and seeing the difference. I I I bet from your side is just a whole nother uh yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 49:15

Just the the realizations that guys have in in the program, uh, you know, like I I I kind of got got really like direct with one of my guys, and I was like, the way that you allow this horse to walk all over you and be disrespectful in in just groundwork and training is the same way that you allow people to do it to you.

SPEAKER_02: 49:38

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_01: 49:39

And he was just like, uh-uh. And then came back to me next week and was like, you're right.

SPEAKER_02: 49:45

Well, uh, yeah. You know, I'll tell you one thing with veterans is you sometimes you just gotta just be real, just say, hey, dumbass, look at this.

SPEAKER_01: 49:58

No, we do. We have some really, really real conversations like that a lot. I and I'm not afraid to to be direct and vocal about it, you know. I think that's that's something that that we both relate on, you know. Uh veterans in in the military are kind of always just you know, very direct. You have to be, you have to be. You have to get to the point, straight to the point. Um, and I'm very much like that. So I think it works.

SPEAKER_02: 50:27

That's good. That's good. How's the how's the community support? Do y'all get a lot of community support out there?

SPEAKER_04: 50:32

Yeah, well, they're pretty good. Like they did look 100% of the operations is run off of donation. And I I that that's always been impressive to me because they've been doing rain rainbow of hope has been around for almost 10 years, maybe longer.

SPEAKER_02: 50:49

Wow.

SPEAKER_04: 50:50

And and the special needs portion, like the Thunder Hooves is a a new addition to that for the veteran portion, but I just still think it's amazing that they've gone that long without figuring out how to create some sort of continuing, like self-sufficient revenue stream.

SPEAKER_01: 51:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 51:11

Some type of like self-sufficiency. They just really 100% off of donation. Um so I think that's super impressive uh for the community support. Yeah. Um I think this time to, especially since you're adding more programs, there's things that we're looking at doing in the in the ranch just to kind of become more self-sustaining. But we were always open for people that want to come out and see what we do and then offer support. Um like I said, they have uh, if you go on our website, there's the monthly donation things and they come in tiers. Um we have a new thing that's gonna be coming out soon. Uh it's it's gonna be called uh Become the 300 of Rainbow, which is kind of kind of cool. It's a twist a little bit on the 300 and and support. So that there'll be flyers for that coming out. You should be able to see some of that. That's another way to support. Um and really though, like we'll one of the other ways is the community's been really good is occasionally we'll get someone that will just support one whole program. So they'll come out and they say, okay, what would this program? Want to put this together for uh veterans and they'll just sponsor the whole program. Okay and we'll run a program for them. A group of veterans. Um but there's a lot of other stuff that we're looking at doing, which is a reason why getting people to come out there. Like, for instance, uh before we did a dinner, so we're looking at doing some use the space for an evening dinner in the outdoor arena, right? The support goes to the horses, we have the horses there, yeah, your dinner mates, but it's stuff like that. I think there's this really good way to support. Uh, but community support's been really great. I mean, you guys have been great here in spaces. Uh huh. This these people here have been great for these guys too. So um and I don't know, man. I just think like it's time. Like the veteran community is really pulling together. I'm telling you again, there's this opportunity with the fleet week coming for veterans to really highlight the city. Like, I think it's just uh I don't want to bag on another Texas cities, but I just feel like Dallas gets too much love for veterans.

SPEAKER_02: 53:21

That's uh South Oklahoma, right? I don't consider it Texas I know.

SPEAKER_04: 53:28

Oh no, I mean it look, I'll give San Antonio a pass if we did it, right? But Dallas, yeah. Come on.

SPEAKER_01: 53:38

We're not even gonna talk about Austin.

SPEAKER_04: 53:40

No, Houston has Houston has so many veterans, like people don't realize that. Yeah, it's also like a huge hub for business that they don't realize either. I think it's like a hidden gem.

SPEAKER_02: 53:55

It's Texas is second behind uh uh California, right? In the very case, I think I heard that somewhere. I might have just made that up. I don't know, but it sounds good. No, let's go with it. Yeah, we'll go with it.

SPEAKER_04: 54:08

As a matter of fact, I think what they call like the there's like the great this greater Houston area, I don't know what they named it now, but it's like it can it's it consists of like this huge area around Houston with Sugarland, Paraland, oh yeah area. That area itself is bigger than a few states, and it actually generates more revenue than a few states. It's like you really create a just it's insane.

SPEAKER_02: 54:30

I believe it. The growth, the growth in Sugarland has been crazy, as well as the growth in Verland. And then it just keeps uh it's expanding.

SPEAKER_01: 54:39

I know I know y'all see it out there, and y'all population is yeah skyrocketing right now.

SPEAKER_02: 54:44

Yeah, more businesses, more. I just you know, it's it's insane. So uh do y'all partner with a lot of veteran organizations of veteran nonprofits, or is there that's the that's the goal.

SPEAKER_04: 54:56

Like the goal is like when I started to be a part of this team, I think our and even before that, because it's very collaborative, like the goal is collaboration, the goal is how do we empower each other? Like I mean, you heard Gabe talks about that too, right? Like uh the service leadership, yeah, right? I could talk to that dude all day, bro. I'm telling you, man, I talked to him and Kate, I talked to him this morning. Yeah. So uh, but yes, the service leadership I think is is a big thing. Um but it's a collaborative thing. So so like let's say a nonprofit, there's nonprofits, veteran nonprofits, or any type of nonprofit that feels like they could empower their program with uh an additional equine portion. Let's collab. Let's talk about it, let's figure it out. Like uh I'm I I'm I'm one of those I I'd like to put on the let's uh is it figure out? Let's figure it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Figure out. That's that's my new that's a new word.

SPEAKER_03: 55:53

Figure out a word. I figure out, man.

SPEAKER_04: 55:56

Figure outable.

SPEAKER_02: 55:58

I like it.

SPEAKER_03: 55:58

I like it. We're gonna make it one new.

SPEAKER_02: 56:02

Joe's dictionary. Yeah, there you go, man.

SPEAKER_01: 56:04

That's what I really like about Joe is that that the the you know, there's more than one hamster running the wheel in the world.

SPEAKER_04: 56:14

You guys have you guys have no clue.

SPEAKER_01: 56:18

Yeah, he's just always thinking and always has such a a creative and innovative mind. And it's like he has the ability to have this vision and then like make it happen. Yeah. Um, so I've been really, really happy since Joe has gotten on the board with us and and been working with us.

SPEAKER_04: 56:40

That's good. Thank you. I appreciate that. I want to go back to something that you had said earlier, but and I I I honestly believe it. I think I think uh people that have have had experiences in life are always creative in some way. Music, art, there's some type of creativeness to them. And and and and and I get that from you. And when you were telling your story, now I know why, right? Creative, but they also find peace in that creative, right? Like uh, even though your music might be metal, she finds peace in it. And I find that that's kind of kind of interesting for people that have had experiences. And I say experiences because when I say experience, we all know what I mean by experiences. Yeah, yeah. So uh and I say that because I think honestly, I think there's no comparison in in experiences. There isn't. Like because your environment dictates how traumatizing your experiences are, right? Like you could not have you could you could have a lot, you could live a good lifestyle, but there are still experiences that will be traumatizing to you, and you will have a trauma. So I think that's why like uh I like the idea of not comparing traumas, right?

SPEAKER_01: 57:57

I ask people all the time one of my favorite questions yeah, I I always ask, like, were you surviving or were you thriving?

unknown: 58:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 58:06

You know, and and surviving isn't even just like in the in the basics, like, oh yeah, I had clothing, I had food. It's like, no, were you surviving, like up in here? You know, it was was your mental at a good place? Were you were you cool, you know, like or were you was it not, you know, was it not cool? Um, and and that's that's exactly you know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02: 58:32

That's that's amazing. I uh you know Joe, hearing you, man, and your your I what what was the word again? Figure audible, figure audible your your mentality figure figure audible. Yeah, dude, it's it's it's awesome, man. Um what what else you got going on? I know you got a lot going on. I always feel like you got a lot going on.

SPEAKER_04: 58:55

Well, right now uh we're rebuilding a veteran online magazine with the group, which is gonna be fun. I really like this group of people. They're uh again, which is funny, it's like a it's like uh people that I've known, like it's like, oh, I know that dude from before, or we connected before, but it now it's like it pulls together. So that um I still have the soap brand, and we're gonna actually start really start pushing that forward recently. I I decided um I got into the b like I have a tendency to get in the business sometimes and not just be a part of it, right? Um and for that, I think I I think for a long time I was too much into the soap uh when I really should have just did what I normally do, which is amplify and grow and find creative, collaborative ways to grow stuff, right? And then just put the right team in place to run it. So that's what I'm doing now. I'm putting the right teams in place so that that actually runs smoothly because um one of the things I recognized about myself early is that I is that I do sometimes overpromise because I want stuff to happen, I want it to be successful and. And it's like, oh man, I didn't have enough people for that. So that's the goal now. It's like to make sure I put the things in place, get that going. Because I think it's another, it's a great way to create uh revenue for whatever projects. Like, and I really want this one to go. So I'd like to start funneling funds to stuff that I can fund too. Does that make sense? Uh what else I got going on? Oh, oh, uh a collaborative effort that I've done with a good friend of mine, Ryan Hunt, um, and Henry Bond, which again, guys that I've been working with, uh, they're also uh Henry was a part of Bunker Labs. I did a bunker lab cohort before that when I first came to Houston, that actually helped me out too. Um I so I want to shout out to them, but which is now they're part of the Institute of Military Veteran Families and Bunker Labs. It's a collaborative thing. Um so those guys are running a veteran social summit, which starts this weekend. So if you have it on there, it's actually free to register. You can go on and check it out. Um it's just a bunch of speakers, uh, people gonna talk about wellness, entrepreneur stuff, empowerment. I mean, it really is just kind of like a online version of how do we build each other up. Yeah, um, really a great thing. Really a great thing. Uh what else I got going on? Stuff with uh Rainbow of Hope, Warrior Spirit, uh that also I'm really looking at tying in with Levi and and Brianna Bauer over at the Houston Regional Veteran Chamber of Commerce. Great people there too. I really think I like I like their synergy. Um really good. So there's a lot of synergy going on. Yeah, I have not connected Small World, they were here the other day. Who were they? Yes, I actually because I'm working on um getting my thing to start a podcast again, and I really like your studio. Hey, you're welcome here anytime. Come maybe we do something. Come on, man. I wanted I I invited them to do one, so I'm working on kind of how I want to do that production. The idea on that one, and I'm gonna stick to this now, is called the melting point. Um, but it's definitely gonna be tied into the soap. Um, I've been talking about this one for a while, so that's the the process. And then also um with my new partners for the magazine, we're talking about probably another podcast to do with them. Um, and then I think there's some stuff that you and I still haven't really talked about because I know there's something we can grow and build. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:24

I'm I'm interested. Uh you need to okay. So, how did the soap thing come about? Tell me that.

SPEAKER_04: 1:02:28

Oh, really? Maxwell soaps, yeah, yeah, yeah. Shout out here to my uh Corman friend, Mr. Max Moore. Um we served together with LAR, and uh he always used to say don't be nasty. And for him, don't be nasty was not it was hygiene true, but it it evolved into like, oh man, you better participate, don't be nasty. Um, when he got out of the military, he was having a kind of a struggle. Okay, yeah, and then one of his therapists said, Hey, do you know how to do anything? And he says, Well, I know how to make soap. So he started making soap, and and the way he says, he started making soap, so he started putting money into making soap, and then he had all this soap with nothing to do with it. So uh he says that at the time, I think when he was doing this, there was something going on in LA around Skid Row. So he would just go around and start handing out soap, not telling anybody why, but just soap for the homeless. But then what he realized was like some of these guys were getting soap, and they're like, Oh man, this is cool, but now I just gotta find a place to take a shower. Um so he's like, Well, how do we figure that out? So he found a nonprofit called Lava May that was in um San Francisco, and they create mobile showers, so they have these buses that they convert, and he goes, Well, let's try to empower that. So he ran a thing that was super successful. Uh he raised 5,000 bars of soap, and then he says, Let's just turn it, he I want to turn this into a business. So he just kind of like modeled Tom's shoes. Like you buy a bar, you give a bar. Um and that's what we started doing for for a while. And then, like I said, he just got uh he wanted to grow it in a way, and I wanted to grow it, but we were working on two different processes. I was working on what I told you guys earlier, the transitional work program, and he was working on his soap, and then we got a mentor and uh a Vietnam veteran mentor, really cool guy. Um, and one time nonchalantly, he goes, Man, you guys should just partner. You guys are already good buddies and everything. Um and that's what we did. Like he well, he the story is we were part and we're all working together, and then our mentor passed away. And then we just kind of like stopped. And then later on, he's like, Hey, you want to do this together? And I'm like, sure. And then he's like, uh, and then he's like, Do you want to do it? Because he wanted to do something else. And we've just been partners that way. So I kind of run it. He's still like a partner, so I still hope he's still very much involved in what we do moving forward, but it's definitely operationally all what I put together. Yeah, that makes sense. Like, nah, no, he man, I'm I gotta tell you, like, he embraced the idea of being a founder, getting something going, and then live your life. So uh I like that. That's my next focus, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:18

Is you're supposed to build it to the point where you don't have to worry about it. He was good.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:25

Well, what it is was like it's like he trusts me. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:28

Like I'm in love with that catchphrase though, don't be nasty. Oh, I don't be nasty. It applies to so many things.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:35

It does so many. You know the first thing the first thing I thought about, man, is I remember being in Iraq with them young privates, like yo, yeah, yeah, don't don't be nasty. Don't be nasty, wash our asses.

SPEAKER_04: 1:05:49

And it evolved, right? Like so for me, that whole term don't be nasty has evolved into like fucking participate, yeah, right? Don't be nasty and sit on the sideline, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:01

We can all complain. Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:03

You just get up and participate, right? So yeah, I like it, man. I like it, yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:08

That's definitely got to go on a shirt, too.

SPEAKER_04: 1:06:10

Oh, it is on a shirt. Oh, okay. By the way, tell me. I want to share this with you guys because I never do. I have a great people that have been helping with Maxwell Soaps. One of them is this wonderful couple uh and their family. They have their own uh veteran small business called Really Designs. Um, unfortunately, they are in Oklahoma. I've been trying to get them to move down here too. Yeah, we got to get people out of Oklahoma. Why would they even live there? With like legit Oklahoma or Dallas? No, they live legit Oklahoma. Really designs. Really designs, look them up. I have a partner page on there on their site, and um, I do um still sell swag. So you can still get swag because for me, any money that I make from swag, I feel like it empowers their business, their small family business. I don't want to say small because they do good work, they have a good operation, but it's still a family business. It's them and you know their family business. So the proceeds I usually get for that goes to stuff. So like I have a red one, it's a red Maxwell shirt, baseball jersey. That one actually supports whatever nonprofit I feel at the time. So like um but you guys could totally help. Go on there, buy some of our red Friday shirts, and we will put 100% of the net profits because I can't take off of the cost because the cost isn't mine. Right, right, right, right. Right? Yeah, yeah. 100% of the net profits will go to any program that we're running at Rainbow of Hope and Thunder Hooves. So what what's the website? It's uh uh really designs, uh reallydesigns.com. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:58

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:59

All right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:00

So what else you got going on?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:02

Um I'm pretty much just kind of focusing on these two programs that that we're doing. Um it's a lot. It is, it is, and I think, especially since like I have my own private kind of business that I do out there. So like I teach anyone riding lessons and I take on horses for training. So I I will take on horses for 30, 60, 90 days at a time or however long they need. Um but yeah, it's it's a full-time job.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:30

Yeah, pretty sure. So with with that, with with your side hell, so how do people find you how find you? How do they how do they uh support that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:39

Um I am all over the place. Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:43

So just share a couple of links with me later on and I'll throw them in the episode.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:48

But I mean, like, I I met a lot of people through music.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08:51

And whenever I got started in that, like people would be like, oh, you're a really good bass player. And I'm like, yeah, I ride horses, and they're just like, huh? And then um, so so through the music industry and and stuff like that, um, I ended up meeting a lot of people, which I I've done music for I think like the last 10 years.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:11

You said you're part of a band? You want to get a diplog?

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:15

My band is called Vendetta.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:17

Vendetta. Look what I wrote for her to be here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:09:20

Do you have anything else to share? She's like, Oh, we have these two projects. I'm like, no, no, I'm gonna talk about your.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:24

No, no, my band is called Vendetta, and it's it's V N D T A. Um, because you know, we're edgy, we don't like vowels around there. Um yeah, so we uh play pretty heavy music for like fans of like Viljarda, Mirar, uh Humanities Last Breath bands like that. Kind of kind of a little obscure, but I think that's what I like about it the most. So we recently just did one of our um newer kind of sounds in an EP where we're kind of maturing our our our look and our sound right now. So we did that EP and we're working on this second one. And it's it's a process because like this time around, I was like, I don't want to put it out and I don't want to do it unless it's right. Right. You know, I was like, this is gonna be a whole thing. Like, I want production value. Like I want all the whole nine yards. So I've my off time from the ranch and from the horses, I am doing that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:24

Yeah, the production is is not cheap either. No, no.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:29

And I'm talking like we're gonna have like makeup and potentially like specific outfits going into it. We're doing our own merch and all that stuff. Like, I want artwork that we can sell. Yeah, it's gonna be all kinds of stuff. This is awesome.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:42

Keep doing it, keep doing it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:44

That's that creative outlet, you know. No, it is.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:46

It's it's what that if you're not feeding that creative outlet, I think is where we find our we get stagnant.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:52

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_04: 1:10:53

Like you gotta feed that creative outlet 100%.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:55

I think that's how I found the love for podcasting so much, man. Was being able to just share different ideas and hearing different people come in with the ideas and you make that into a reality, it's kind of like it hits you some type of way, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:11

It's a new way of manifesting, man. It's speaking it into existence, is what it is. And and and see, like now, like see now we've we've all put this on a podcast, and now it's gonna go out to the world. And in like five years, people are gonna be like, Hey, did you do that? Because you spoke it into existence, now you have to do it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:30

That's the the power of being the the professional bullshitter.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:34

Yeah, so with William, let me tell you, with William, when he started his podcast, I'd say he kept talking about, kept talking about, kept talking about. I was like, hey man, do something or shut the fuck up. Did he do it? Yeah, and he did it. And now look at it, man.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:46

Like I love his, I love his vibe, too. I gotta I I just wish he would uh I need to be more clear on his calendar where he puts his little trailer because I gotta go visit with him.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:58

Yeah, yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04: 1:11:59

He's everywhere all the time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:00

If uh anywhere that he can be, he will be. He's he's a good dude, though. Yeah, good dude. Good people. He uh convinced you to do anything, rob a bank, be successful in life. Yeah, I mean, those are two big different things, but yeah, you know, you still get you success if you if you get away with a bank. Yeah, if you get away, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:18

With both of them, does he need a horse to rob the bank?

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:21

Can we collab that way? I mean, let's see. I do dog training.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:25

You know, there was a movie a while ago called the Doberman Gang. I don't know if you guys ever saw that. I don't know if you're being serious. No, they trained serious? I'm being serious. I trained there's a Doberman gang and they trained a group of dogs to rob a bank. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:40

Um you have to look that up. It's a movie.

SPEAKER_04: 1:12:42

You gotta check it out. It's called the Doberman Gang. It was like a 70s movie, you know, back when they used to do those weird movies. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:48

Yeah, I'm gonna have to watch that. I love Doberman's. Is it on Netflix?

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:51

No, no, you guys, it's been it's been amazing to just have y'all here and talk, talk with you a little bit. And uh, you know, I definitely don't want y'all to be strangers. I mean, is there something else? What what what else y'all got? Y'all got something else going on?

SPEAKER_04: 1:13:06

Let's keep talking. Win today? No, no, I don't know. But I talk about strangers, we get to figure out is how to bring you out and do a show from the place, and we can get maybe get the whole board together. Yeah. Get the whole group and get you out, and then you can have we can be put horses in the background.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:20

Yeah. Um, you know, I don't want to sound crazy, but I'm scared of horses. It's okay, it's natural.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:28

Do you know how common that is, though?

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:30

This is a huge animal. Yeah, it is a huge animal. Yeah. I feel like if if if I can't take it in anything, I don't want to be around it. Like if I can't beat you up in a fight or when it comes to an animal, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:43

Like I just see that's brother, yeah. I feel like that's where a lot of the therapy starts. Yeah, that's you one face of fear, and then you also you have to release the idea that you were in control of everything. Okay. Because now you're you're on a dirt bike essentially that you know eats your entire wallet and shits it out all over the floor and then has a mind of its own. And sometimes you can ask it to go left and it'll be like maybe later. So it's it's that it's that release of that control and and facing your fears and being quick to think. You know, that's that's why it's good for you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:23

I you know, I've never been I've never been an animal person. We just recently got a dog. Um, and you know, it's it's taking adjustment for me. I've never been like I I've always thought like, okay, so pets are outside.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:36

Yeah, it's a it's a it I that's how I grew up. Yeah, but honestly, I I literally I grew up the the dogs, they they were outside. Cats, you never owned them.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:14:46

They just were whatever. They were out there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:48

Well, they they domesticated themselves, they we had neighborhood cats, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:53

Um yeah, for sure. Well, we got a we got a dog recently, and it's just it's taken a lot of adjusting too. But it it's cool to have him like be protective of the family, barking at at strangers, sometimes just randomness. And um, and you know, I was walking in the hallway the other day, and I'm gonna tell you a funny story, because I was walking down the hallway and the dog like looked over my shoulder and barked, and there was nobody there, and I was like, uh, I'm out of here.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:24

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:15:27

There's a and then there's that the when you when they get there, it's like they're gonna follow you everywhere. It's like that uncond it. I I feel like dogs teach us that unconditional love. That that because like you're gonna have bad days and the dog's still gonna want to love it. You're gonna be grumpy and he's still gonna want to love it. You're gonna like get away from me. Come on, come on, right? Uh because it's just unconditional. Like it and then I think you you grind you you you the next level is you get a cat, and then the cat is like leave me alone. No, I mean a cat teaches a cat teaches you that you have to have boundaries and that you have to respect the other space.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:14

Um, but they love you, right? Right? And the the love does require a little bit of work, right? Like uh, I feel like the the the dogs prepare you for the young babies, and then the cat prepares you for teenagers. So I like that. I like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:31

Then the horse prepares you for the rest of the ship, though.

SPEAKER_04: 1:16:34

Right. Let it go. Life. The horse is just like, let go, man. You have no control either.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:40

Yeah, I grew up in a dog home. So, like, I I, you know, my grandmother, she uh she bred German shepherds, she bred Alaskan Malamutes. So from day one, like I always had big, ginormous dogs around me.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:53

Indoor dogs?

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:54

Yeah, yeah. So we had like two Rottweilers at one point. Uh she had bulldogs, you know, and we my mom she got a chihuahua whenever we were kids, and that little tiny chihuahua was like running the entire household.

SPEAKER_04: 1:17:08

It's like I got in a dog, I have I've been worn many hats, bro, and one of them was a dog trainer. And I did it for about two and a half years, and I came across so many different breeds of dogs, and um by far, chihuahuas are the most dangerous. They are ready to fight anyone at any time, especially if they if you come into their house. Yeah, they're the best guard dogs, by the way. Chihuahua is my bad.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:34

And they actually are so smart, they are so smart and they are so trainable. They really are.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:40

So your your name, where are you? You're from, where are you from? Where's your family from? Because this is I haven't heard that name before.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:48

Oh, uh, my family uh on my mom's side is Italian.

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:51

Okay, so yeah, all right. All right, so Dave Deviana, Daviana, am I saying it right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:56

Yes, Daviana. So technically, um uh my father, his name is David Brian Tucker, and I don't know if like he was really set on having a boy and I was supposed to be a junior or whatever, but that's where Davionna Brianne Tucker came from.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:14

Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:16

But then like you have my uncle, and he was uh Giovanni Matteo Capello's. Oh, damn.

SPEAKER_04: 1:18:22

That's that's pretty more Italian. That's pretty Italian.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:27

Yeah, so like pretty Italian, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:33

That's awesome, you guys. I appreciate you guys coming in and thanks for having us, man. Um, man, you guys don't be strangers though, all right. Y'all gotta definitely come back and talk some more and um let's work together. Yeah, for sure, man. And anything you need, let me know.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:47

Yeah, for sure. Thank you. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:49

As always, we appreciate you tuning in. Thank you, and it's been great.