Sidewalk Conversations

When Church and Creativity Collide: A Worship Leader's Story with Kyle O'Neal

• Piet Van Waarde • Season 3 • Episode 16

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Kyle O'Neal, Creative Arts Pastor at Shoreline Church, shares his journey from childhood musician to worship leader and how his faith shaped his path through church planting, cross-country moves, and creative ministry leadership.

• Growing up in Atlanta with his father as primary influence and role model for serving in church
• Making cassette tape "radio shows" at age six and receiving his first real guitar at twelve
• Dropping out of college at 19 to plant churches, spending 11 years in church planting ministry
• Moving from Georgia to Wichita, Kansas with his family after God prepared them through strengthened finances, parenting and marriage
• Leading with three core principles: "Point to Jesus," "Bring your best," and "Seek to serve"
• Maintaining personal faith through daily Bible reading (currently in year nine of annual reading)
• Observing post-COVID church trends as an opportunity for fresh direction rather than trying to return to previous patterns
• Writing original worship music with his team at Shoreline Church
• Navigating parenting teenagers while exploring Austin with his family

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Kyle O'Neal:

I slept most of the way. It was hard to sleep the whole time. I'd never like, because I don't normally sleep 12 hours. So it was a little bit and then we had the interruption of landing in Turkey for a minute too.

Piet Van Waarde:

Oh, wow, wow.

Kyle O'Neal:

I can't not sleep on planes.

Piet Van Waarde:

That's awesome.

Kyle O'Neal:

I started audio recording. so that was our cold open. Well, I had a question what so?

Piet Van Waarde:

that was our cold open. Well, I had a question what's your favorite like when you're not doing worship music? What's your favorite genre To listen to?

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, oh man.

Piet Van Waarde:

Do you have a favorite?

Kyle O'Neal:

I don't know that I have a favorite. I'm pretty eclectic when it comes to music, but there's certain things I won't listen to. But I mean growing up like I was in a Christian rock band, so like I love like rock, I like metal, I like lo-fi, like if I'm just like needing to just kind of chill for a little bit, I like lo-fi or study or those kind of things.

Piet Van Waarde:

I like those kind of music I should turn you on to my son. My son does lo-fi.

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, he's got his own channel.

Piet Van Waarde:

No way, that's cool, and so we were just out to see him.

Kyle O'Neal:

Where's he live at he's doing so good.

Piet Van Waarde:

He's outside of San Diego.

Kyle O'Neal:

Oh, very cool. Yeah, that's a cool area.

Piet Van Waarde:

He's getting married in October. Let's go. I know that's awesome and we really like her too.

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, that's a good thing. It's a bonus, yep, so yeah.

Piet Van Waarde:

That's cool. Hey, thank you for joining us for another Sidewalk Conversations. I'm excited about our guest today and we'll be introducing him in a moment, but let me first say thank you to our sponsors. Today, our sponsor is Tenfold Counseling out of Kansas City. They are good friends of mine personally, but they also serve a great community there in Kansas City and they do have online services, and so if you're in need of some encouragement, some perspective, some help through a difficult season, I would encourage you to give Crystal and the folks at Tenfold Counseling a call. They'll serve you well, all right. Well, thank you for joining us and I want to introduce you to my guest, kyle O'Neill. Kyle, thank you for joining me.

Kyle O'Neal:

Oh, it's an honor. I'm excited to chat and talk about life.

Piet Van Waarde:

Yeah, let's do it. So let's go all the way back to the beginning.

Kyle O'Neal:

Okay Of time? Yes, of your time, at least my time. Yes, of your time, at least my time yes.

Piet Van Waarde:

So I always like to. There's like a story that people know and then there's the story that's behind that story and I always find that so interesting. So share a little bit about where you grew up, who some of your key influences were. Tell us about that.

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah for sure. So I grew up in the Atlanta area. I was born in South Georgia, georgia, and I was going to grow up on a farm. So this is like the story behind the story on a farm. But when we were two my parents wanted me to have a better upbringing and opportunities and stuff. So my dad got a job up in Atlanta. So when I was two we moved there. I spent most of my life in Atlanta.

Piet Van Waarde:

Okay, wow, that's a big place. It's a big place. Oh my gosh.

Kyle O'Neal:

We've moved a couple times since then, but I would say, being in Austin now it reminds me a lot of Atlanta. So you've got the city, you've got the nature, you've got the hills, all of it. We've been here for a year now and it feels like home, which is great. But yeah, atlanta, I grew up, I played baseball growing up, so a lot of influences were baseball players. Uh, so a big, big atlanta braves fan, um got a tattoo right there.

Kyle O'Neal:

So uh, chipper jones, that was my, my absolute favorite like player like I wanted to, not in his like personal life, but in his baseball life I wanted to be like chipper jones and had some other favorites with with them, from dale murphy on.

Kyle O'Neal:

But um, uh I would say like all, all over, encompassing like inspiration, was my dad. So growing up, my dad was the guy who would literally do anything for anybody and would serve in the church and I just saw what I felt like I wanted to be in him from really early on.

Piet Van Waarde:

What a great compliment for him, huh.

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, I mean, and we're still good today and good friends, which is great.

Piet Van Waarde:

So that helps, I mean, and we're still good today and good friends, which is great.

Kyle O'Neal:

So that helps? Yeah, but yeah, no, it's, he was. If the church needed a singles pastor, for a little bit he was our singles pastor. If they needed a fill-in music minister, he was the fill-in music minister. So I just saw him serve in so many different capacities and just the church and us. They like to tell me the story that, like I think I was born on a Thursday and we were in church on a Sunday, kind of thing.

Piet Van Waarde:

Of course. So like we were there.

Kyle O'Neal:

But yeah, my dad big, big influence and I had just some key like youth leaders along the way too that.

Piet Van Waarde:

So were you like always, I'm assuming from the story of your dad and mom, I'm guessing that you were in church regularly. Were you always like a person of faith, or did you ever have the season where it was kind of a little more shaky?

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, was it like a person of faith, or did you ever have a season where it was kind of a little more shaky? Yeah, I wouldn't say shaky. I think there was times where I took it more seriously. So I did grow up in Christian home and like if the doors were open. We were there kind of thing, and there was a lot of doors that were open most of the nights of the week.

Kyle O'Neal:

So we were there a lot, so it was kind of like a second home for a long time. There was a moment, like in high school, where I was like I'm not exactly sure, like if I'm just living my own faith or if I'm living the faith that my parents had for me. So it didn't really like fall away or do anything crazy or anything like that, but it was just. It became more real to me in high school.

Piet Van Waarde:

And was there a moment? That it became more real, like was there something that happened where you're at a camp, or was something taking place.

Kyle O'Neal:

So I think some of it was kind of part of my story with like music. So like coming into from middle school, going into high school, kind of had to make a decision. Like I was doing baseball a lot and I was also doing music a lot, so I was like I had to make a decision between those two. And when music and what we now know is like worship, music and all that started to become a part of my life. It was in that that my faith became more real and it wasn't about I'm this person's son or I'm this person's like uh, or my dad's son or my mom's son, like I was me, like I was learning how to be my own relationship with jesus in that moment. So I gave my life, uh, to jesus early at eight. But uh became really real and started owning my own faith around the beginning of high school.

Piet Van Waarde:

So so it, and so music sounds like music was a big part of that. And we're going to get into your professional life in that regard, but did you always have a love for music? I mean, was that like, as far as you can remember?

Kyle O'Neal:

and you love music, as far as I can remember and I have pictures before that to- help me know. So there's a picture that my mom has of me that I was like two years old, singing into a hairbrush on the fireplace like mantle area kind of thing. And like just singing my heart out I would. I would make like this is going to sound crazy, but I would make little tapes.

Kyle O'Neal:

So I had a cassette tape recorder and I would be like the radio host talking about the song that's about to come on, I'm like and here's the next up, they're going to sing Amazing Grace, and then I'd wait a little bit, and then I would sing in a funny voice and I would sing the part, and so hold a radio show on cassette tapes and stuff. So music was pretty early on. My parents got me like a toy guitar when I was probably six and I called it my tune and played on that and then bought my first real guitar when I was 12.

Piet Van Waarde:

Is that your favorite instrument?

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, I play a lot of things but guitar is definitely the one I come back to the most and the one I started with Cool Now.

Piet Van Waarde:

Did you study music in school as well?

Kyle O'Neal:

I did a little bit in high school and I chose a different path in college. So so for in high school, I did band, um, so I played trombone. I started. I did that and wanted to learn more of the brass instruments. I started learning a couple other instruments as well, but still played guitar. I learned that if I was cause I started in a like a Christian garage band, literally because we practice in a garage but in fifth grade.

Kyle O'Neal:

So I realized I couldn't tell my friend Eric, the bass player, how to play something if I didn't know how To play. So I learned a little bit of bass. I could tell my friend Adam, what I was wanting and a song that we were writing with drums. So I learned a little bit of drums.

Kyle O'Neal:

It's a little bit that just kind of picked up a little bit here and there. But man, yes, just music. Throughout high school did music theory. I didn't do choir, which was kind of funny. But I didn't do choir until my last semester of high school and then in college, every time I looked at different colleges for music, I knew God was calling me into music and I knew he was calling me in some type of ministry. No-transcript.

Piet Van Waarde:

So when you connect your faith to music and you said those things were happening congruently, was there something about music? Because you lead worship at the church and we'll talk about that here in a bit but it seems like even when you're leading worship, that there's something happening in you, not just something you're doing quote unquote for the church. So is that really kind of how you would describe it?

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, I think. So, backing up to where I was talking about making the cassette recordings and stuff, like that that.

Kyle O'Neal:

I feel like I was emulating things. And then, when I started taking my faith seriously and owning my own faith in high school, something real came in to me. It wasn't just the hymns that we were singing in church, but by that time there were starting to be praise songs that were starting to be written. A couple years later was the Tomlin movement and all that kind of stuff, but all of those songs started. Man, this is what I'm trying, this is my prayer, that I'm praying to God and this is a song that we can sing. And now when we pray and sing these songs, everybody's praying and singing these songs and just seeing the unity behind it and that really just deepened and strengthened my faith around ninth, tenth grade kind of thing. Awesome yeah.

Piet Van Waarde:

And so where did you end up going to school?

Kyle O'Neal:

So I went to Truett McConnell and I went for two years. It's a North Georgia Baptist college. I went for two years and literally dropped out to go plant a church years and literally dropped out to go plant a church. So I was learning how to do ministry and learning how to plant a church and all that kind of stuff in college. And a buddy of mine that I'd done a lot of youth events with he's like would you ever consider starting a church with me now? And I said yeah, I think.

Piet Van Waarde:

I would Were you married at the time? I was not.

Kyle O'Neal:

So I was 19,. Maybe 20 at that point, yeah.

Piet Van Waarde:

Okay, and how was that experience?

Kyle O'Neal:

Oh, it was amazing. So I just jumped in and I felt like everything that I'd already kind of been wanting to do I was just literally getting to go and there was a ton of just trust and leadership that I clearly didn't earn or deserve yet but was just given to me and, school of Hard Knocks, we made it work.

Piet Van Waarde:

You figured it out? How long were you doing that?

Kyle O'Neal:

So I did church planning in the Georgia area for 11 years. Wow yeah, so 10 of those were portable.

Kyle O'Neal:

So the whole unloading, packing a trailer, we've met in movie theaters and schools and a library, actually like all kinds of places, but 11 of those years were portable, and then I ended up taking a really big step of faith. We knew that something in our life was changing. By this time I was married. So the second church I worked at was when I met my wife, melissa, and we had been at the same church for about seven years at that point, which knew something was happening?

Kyle O'Neal:

God was shifting our hearts in some way and we thought it was something to do with maybe finances or our parenting or our marriage. So we started shoring up everything we could. We had no debt. We wanted to make sure we were the best parents that we could. We were strengthened in our marriage in every way we could. What we didn't realize was God was actually calling us way outside of our comfort zone and moved to Wichita, kansas, of all places. When they told us Wichita, I didn't even know what state that was at the time so we moved to Wichita, Kansas, to be a part of a large multi-site church and man.

Kyle O'Neal:

that was incredible.

Piet Van Waarde:

How did they find you?

Kyle O'Neal:

So that was kind of in that season of looking my dad on it. So back to my dad. I've been influenced multiple times in my life. He said you should apply at this church and it's a church that, like I had used resources from like looking from for afar for like five, six years and I, on a joke, kind of whim to him, I filled out an application and I got a call the next day. So it all happened really fast. Like obviously my pastor was in on, he knew that God was calling us into something and he knew there was something going on, but I did not think it was going to happen that fast.

Piet Van Waarde:

I bet.

Kyle O'Neal:

So the beauty of where God was leading was we thought we needed to make sure that everything was strong. Man, we really did when we needed to move halfway across the country. Our finances were great, our parenting was great and our marriage was great. So we move into this new season outside of our comfort zone and we had everything else strong. That's awesome, yeah.

Piet Van Waarde:

That's a wise move, bro. It wasn't me All God, all just listening. Well, you had to pay attention.

Kyle O'Neal:

So how was that experience? What was that like? Yeah, it was great. So, man, that was the fast track of everything. So I went from a church plan of about 500 to a church that, when I left, was averaging about 150,000 on a weekend, and when I started there there was 20 campuses and when I left there was 40.

Kyle O'Neal:

So it was quite the seven years of drinking from the fire hydrant of just trying to learn and grow and man, it was awesome and again I felt like I got opportunities that I didn't earn. But we just listened and were obedient to God and different things happened and, man, we got to be a part of some great things. So we saw some big things happen, got to be a part of some songs that got to. The whole church was singing and it was just, yeah, it was a great experience.

Piet Van Waarde:

Oh man, that's great. Now most people know you as the person up front who's leading the worship experience, and you're great at it, but you also have this whole other part of your life. In fact, you had to correct me at first when I was talking to you about this, because you're also, I guess, your official title is a creative arts pastor. So that means essentially that you lead a variety of teams. So you have obviously the music piece. But then, it's also video and tech and anything else in that list. Basically there's three sections.

Kyle O'Neal:

There are like three ministry areas, so it's worship, production and the Marcom area. So I would say I get the privilege to serve these teams. Man, we have some of the most talented people in the entire country, the entire world, that are doing the things, so I really just get to serve them and lift them up as much as I can. So our worship team obviously leads worship on Sunday. Our production team is anything from audio, video, lighting and marketing is all the video, the graphics, all of that type stuff.

Piet Van Waarde:

Wow, and so you're responsible for all three of those? Yeah, which is a lot. Yeah, my goodness, it wouldn't be a lot without all those people.

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, yeah.

Piet Van Waarde:

So tell me a little bit of like when you think about your week and you know you don't have to get all into the weeds but like, how do you think through the grid of all those things and be, you know, taking care of the people side of the equation yeah, because it's obviously a lot of people involved but then also the quote-unquote production ministry side of the equation. What does that week look like for you?

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, so one of the things I love about our creative team is, even though it's three different teams, we're very unified.

Piet Van Waarde:

Okay.

Kyle O'Neal:

So we start Mondays, and literally our Mondays is that touch point where we all get together. We look at what went right, wrong, confusing, missing from Sunday. How can we make it better? How can we make it 1% better? And then we just tell stories of what God did. We look ahead at what we have on our calendar and then we disperse from there and try to make things work. So I do have meetings with each team that happen also throughout Monday. Tuesdays are a lot of extra meetings that I go to that they don't have to. That's when they're executing which is good.

Kyle O'Neal:

And then we have rehearsals on Tuesdays. Wednesdays is that catch-up, all the things that we didn't have time for we're making sure happen. And then Thursday is all the final prep for the weekend to really quickly kind of overview things. But I think the reason and the way it works really well is that we just have great people. Like there are just great people who love God, who love to serve the church and love what they do and they're living in their passion. So there's a.

Kyle O'Neal:

It's funny like I was actually talking to our music director and vocal director today. I was like I'm not sure I want to give you guys more off my plate, but I'm looking at everything on worship and you do all of it. Want to give you guys more off my plate, but I'm looking at everything on worship and you do all of it. So it's like I love that you do this. All I have to do is give a thumbs up and cheer you on and I love that. I love that I get to serve them in a way and lift them up and put them in a place that they can grow more and develop more. So it's been great.

Piet Van Waarde:

I want to tease on that a little bit. So all of us, we kind of have I did ministry for a good many years and we have a grid that we think through as it relates to leadership. So do you have some models and maybe some internal grids that you think about when you're doing leadership, of whether it's on your team or whether it's of the entire congregation? Maybe we'll start with the team. What's your philosophy about that?

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, so I have these three phrases that I use for literally everything. So hopefully this answers. It's not as like it's practical, but it's also like what drives it. So I think, if you're like, what's the target? This is my target every time. So one is that I point to Jesus.

Kyle O'Neal:

So everything that we do, if it's a worship song, or if it's a light cue, or if it's a graphic that we're going to use or a video we're going to make, how does it point to Jesus? And then I'll have like a subtitle to it. So we point to Jesus because worship is a response. So that's the first one is like that, without anything else, like that's the one that has to matter before anything else. The second one is we bring our best you. The second one is we bring our best.

Kyle O'Neal:

You can do anything halfway, but we have the opportunity to serve God, we have the opportunity to serve people. So we bring our best. And the subtitle of that one is excellence is a choice. So, like anything and everything that we do, like I want to make sure that I'm bringing my absolute best with it. And then the third one is seek to serve, and then the subtitle is serving as a posture. So in everything that we do we're going to point to Jesus. We're going to bring our best, but our heart is to serve and love people. So I think that's maybe more generic than maybe you're asking, but that is the target the goal and, if I get that right, the other things we can make it work.

Piet Van Waarde:

Yeah, yeah. And is there any adjustment you make in your thinking when it comes to the congregation as a whole? I mean, you could certainly put that all in that same bucket.

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, yeah.

Piet Van Waarde:

Is there anything else that you would add to the list? When it comes to the church as a whole, I think just helping people connect it.

Kyle O'Neal:

So you know, from Shoreline, when it's like know God, find life, make a difference, it kind of a little bit goes into that. Like a little bit goes into that, like how are we creating moments in worship, how are we creating environments in worship, how are we creating things that even get people there and help them connect with their next steps, that help them know God, find life and make a difference? So it's just looking through the lens of the things that those are like my, the point to Jesus, all those. Those are my, like personal ones, but the know God, find life, make a difference. That's our heart, our goal, our vision for Shoreline. So it's more all along that line.

Kyle O'Neal:

It's like knowing that that's the target. How can we make that happen with the things that we're doing? So just thinking through lenses, I think is helpful.

Piet Van Waarde:

It's good to know a goal before just going out and creating.

Kyle O'Neal:

I think as creatives, we can all just dream all day long, but creatives also need can all just dream all day long, but, like it, creatives also need that those guardrails not not rules, but guardrails just go. Okay, this is where I'm going, but that's the target. As long as I know the target man, I can hit that all day long, I think if I can help someone know God if I can help someone find life, I can help someone make a difference, then yeah, that's Win.

Piet Van Waarde:

Yeah, for sure, for sure. All right Now. We didn't necessarily talk about this beforehand, but it just came to me and I was thinking about some of the things we did when I was serving as a senior leader. I loved working with creatives, you know, because they have a way of helping you not only think through a different grid, as it relates to how to come into a topic, but then also expanding on the topic once you say, hey, this is where I'm headed. And then, all of a sudden, the creatives say, well, we could do this we could do that.

Piet Van Waarde:

But the downside of creatives is that they can be all over the place, and you just kind of mentioned too. And so what are some of the things that you find yourself doing on a regular basis to provide the guardrails, as you called them, a way to kind of give them room to fly and do their creative thing but also kind of keep them somewhat railed in so it's not spinning out all everywhere?

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, I think one additional just to add before the guardrails would just be the target for creativity in the church, like we must follow our senior pastor, so we're always like it starts with where Pastor Rob wants to go. Yeah, so here's our next series. You guys dream I'm feeling this, this, this Great. That's our target.

Piet Van Waarde:

Yeah.

Kyle O'Neal:

I think the guardrails is multiple things, so I think one of them is open hands, because I is multiple things, so I think one of them is open hands because I think any kind of idea that a creative has, if it's not the idea that's chosen, it's like well, that was my baby.

Piet Van Waarde:

That was right, that was my one so always just open hands, like it's.

Kyle O'Neal:

It's not about my idea getting chosen sometimes it's that idea gave birth to this idea that gave birth to that idea. That man we helped really connect the dots for people in that and it started started because of this, I think. A second is honor. So just when, like not just celebrating this, but celebrating that initial thought that got to this, that got to this.

Piet Van Waarde:

That got to this.

Kyle O'Neal:

And we don't necessarily honor like publicly on this was your idea and this happened Like we honor publicly within our team and celebrate those, because we're not about, we're not trying to get credit for the things that we're doing. We want to put the credit and the headline to be Jesus, but we want internally for our team to know man, wasn't that awesome that this idea started with this, but then it happened. None of that would have ever happened if you wouldn't have said that idea. And then I think another part of it is just keeping all of the things in the forefront of your mind and being very good with communication, because I think the hardest thing with creatives is you tell me to do something and then you walk away and a creative is going to be thinking about that until they finish it all the way.

Piet Van Waarde:

You're going to keep going, keep dreaming, if it's something you're really excited about.

Kyle O'Neal:

You're going to lose sleep over it creating all these things. And then, if the plan changed but was never communicated, it's like, oh, I've already been working this and this and I've already done that and that. So, like communication along the way of like, hey, just a heads up, this changed and now it's going to go this direction, Great, and then they could pivot in the middle of the process rather than at the end of the process when they feel like it's a final product, kind of thing.

Piet Van Waarde:

So, yeah, communication is a big key there. Oh man, so true, and I love what you said about one idea leading to another. One of the definitions I've loved of synergy is where one plus one plus one equals five, because it's exactly like what you described. It's like one idea creates this other thing, which creates this other thing, and then together, all these things kind of come together and you realize this would never have happened if any one of us had tried to take on the assignment. It was the fact that we were together. We had this kind of free-flowing conversation. Look at what happened. We created this beautiful thing. That's awesome.

Piet Van Waarde:

All right, so let me bring the lens out a little bit. When you look at what's happening in the church generally speaking, um, so, not just Shoreline, but just church in general what are some of the things that you're excited about that you see in the church? And then maybe in a little bit we'll talk a little bit about areas that you're like, wow, I'm not sure about that. So what makes you excited about where the church has had a generalist?

Kyle O'Neal:

be. Yeah, man, a lot of things. I feel like I know it's hard not to zoom too far out, but just think about even Austin things. I feel like I know it's hard not to zoom too far out, but just think about even Austin. So today we got the opportunity to meet with a bunch of worship leaders and all kinds of creatives that were in the city and there's just a unity that's happening in Austin right now within the creative and the worship world right now that you see, you start to see different glimpses of it kind of all across the country. I love that. It's kind of taken progression and that happens. There's growth every single time.

Kyle O'Neal:

But you went from hymns to praise choruses to kind of worship, and the worship when it first started, kind of in that early 2000s era, was very just, raw, authentic. And then there was a good season of like upping the excellence and upping the production higher and higher and higher, almost to a point it kind of got a little bit out of hand and I feel like there's a trend of man, just don't worry about perfection, that's not what we're chasing, we're chasing presence and I feel that more and more, the more worship pastors I talk to, I am pretty connected all over the country with different worship pastors and just hearing their heart like less and less about the production to make it happen. Obviously, you want it to enhance what you're doing, you want it to be a part of it, but we also don't need any of it, like we don't need a single light, we don't need a sound system, we don't need anything to worship Jesus. We just need us to be able to put our focus on Him. So there seems to be a heightened freshness, uh, specifically in worship.

Kyle O'Neal:

Uh, for that of just like we just want to seek the face of god in this moment, and that's what we're really chasing right now too. Just bringing a macro down to, or micro down to shoreline is what we're chasing, is like we just want to seek the presence of god and all the other stuff is extra, but we don't need it. But how can we just seek?

Piet Van Waarde:

it yeah, so I'm excited for that. So when you One of the challenges that I've noticed and I experienced myself when I was in ministry there's the obligation of Sunday comes around with amazing regularity, and so you.

Kyle O'Neal:

Crazy, how that happens.

Piet Van Waarde:

Yeah, and you're not always in the best place personally, emotionally, even spiritually, to quote unquote, be on, and I think that everybody understands that. But I think you have to be super intentional yourself when you're in a role where you're leading. And so what are some of the things that you do on a regular basis that kind of keeps you fresh in this thing you talked about in terms of seeking Jesus, because you can talk about it all from platform and into your team and be somewhat bankrupt even yourself in terms of your own walk. And so are there things that you find yourself doing on a regular basis that kind of keep that fresh for you?

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, so multiple, so one, I would say scripture. So I made the commitment. I'm on year nine of reading through the Bible every year and this year I'm doing the Bible recap. So it also includes a 25-minute podcast.

Piet Van Waarde:

So I read my.

Kyle O'Neal:

Bible plan and then listen to basically a commentary on what you just read. Man, that's how I start my day every day, and I think that just going through that and like not trying to do, because I think for me, like I'm a doer, I want to accomplish, I want to do all those things, that's not the first thing I do in the morning. The first thing I do is okay, god, what do you want to teach me today?

Kyle O'Neal:

um, and start there um, a thing that I try to live out as much as I can and I'll give some practicalities. But I say to our team, a lot is never let what you do on worship on stage outshine what you do offstage. So you kind of hinted at this, but to me, worshiping onstage and leading a room in worship should always come out of the overflow.

Kyle O'Neal:

So, how are you filling yourself up? Are you spending time with God? Are you listening? So we were talking like are you spending time with god, are you are you listening? So like we're uh talking about lo-fi earlier and, like man, I like there's lo-fi worship. That's. One of my favorite playlists right now is lo-fi worship. It's on a spotify radio station and it's just so good and it just kind of gets you out of. You're not listening to it like from, like a worship or like a production stand.

Kyle O'Neal:

oh, I could use that like yeah, like you're not, you're not listening to it that way, you're just listening to it like okay, God, thank you for showing me this, and like you hear the words in a different way. But yeah, listening to worship, a lot of times I'll just find myself singing. I love just being out and praying and singing by myself, sometimes with a guitar, sometimes without, but man just filling up and letting the biggest time and the most intimate time that I worship God not be on a stage and with a microphone. That's great.

Piet Van Waarde:

And I commend you for it because it can be. So you know, especially Shoreline is a very active church, so you don't just have like Sunday morning, you have first Wednesday, you have special events, men's event coming up on Friday.

Kyle O'Neal:

You got marriage. You know the marriage conference.

Piet Van Waarde:

So you have all these things and the staff chapel I'm sure you still do worship there too so you have all these responsibilities and it's just so easy for all of those responsibilities to crowd out the personal time and it's like, well, I'll be worshiping at church on Sunday. So if you can really do that, man, that's so commendable and I think it's going to help you stay. As you well know, I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but it'll help keep you on track for the long haul, Because one of the hardships and heartaches you see in the world today is that people who were very big in the quote unquoteunquote worship world tank go off the rails, do stupid things and even, some cases, just give up on the faith altogether. So sad, so good for you for staying on it.

Kyle O'Neal:

Yeah, I think it's a learned thing. It's not a like. I don't want to make it sound like oh man, I got this all figured out.

Piet Van Waarde:

I think you do it over time.

Kyle O'Neal:

So this August will actually be 22 years of ministry for me and I think early on that was not my mindset. I had to learn that through hardship of realizing that man, I just gave everything I had and that was the most I ever worshiped God. This week was that 20-minute worship set.

Piet Van Waarde:

That's convicting.

Kyle O'Neal:

I'm not giving God my best. I'm not bringing my best pointing to Jesus seeking to serve. But man, it's a learned thing. You mentioned there's busy seasons. Easter is very busy, so you have to prioritize it too. It's got to be a habit, it's got to be a priority.

Piet Van Waarde:

It's got to be a priority.

Kyle O'Neal:

It can't just be something that.

Piet Van Waarde:

oh yeah, I said I'd get to that All right, as there are things that you're like.

Kyle O'Neal:

you look at the church and you say, ooh, I'm not sure that's going to be, that's going to work out so well. Man publicly criticizing the capital C church? I'm not sure. No, no, I think what I see in the global church is so COVID changed everything right and there's just kind of this sense of and I still hear it of like we'll get back to where we were before COVID and I still hear it of like we'll get back to where we were before COVID and I really feel like COVID happened to shift something. I don't know that it is to go back to, because kind of what I saw a trend in was you had high attendance on every church, like churches were growing like crazy.

Kyle O'Neal:

Covid happened and then every church was at 30%, 40% maybe like 60%, like if it was like a lot and people are like people just didn't come back. What I actually saw more trend of was it was not necessarily just the people not coming back, it was new people coming and it was like the most devoted. So I think what it kind of did was shake and sift through some of church culture and, like your for lack of better words like church consumers kind of just didn't come back. They found other things that worked for them. They were really just there to maybe check a box and man like the dedicated, like we want to be here, and then the new people who I need something deeper in my life are the ones that came back.

Kyle O'Neal:

So I think I'm not. I would say it's just a concern that I really hope that we continue to use that as a shifting, not a look back and hope for, but a shifting. What is God doing new? Why did we have that pruning, if you will, of church members and church attendance and the way that we did things? How can we not just think about how we did something five years ago or six years ago, but how can we actually move forward in a new way with whatever God's doing? Now I feel like Psalms talks about it so much, like God's doing a new thing, so like we want to sing a new song, let's do a new thing in the church. But ultimately I think that it's just finding ways to follow after where he's leading, so not being afraid to give up and move ahead of where we were, but look at a way to accept the shift and move into something new that God's been doing.

Piet Van Waarde:

Yeah, I totally agree with you on that. And I think for leaders and I'll just personalize it for me as a leader I was still on staff at a church, I was at Shoreline and I think one of the things I saw happen in me and I think I can say this fairly for our team was that we were forced to kind of ask the question how are we going to measure success? So during COVID you couldn't necessarily measure it by people in the seats and offerings in the plate.

Piet Van Waarde:

I mean, you're your kind of typical way of measuring quote unquote success and I think that was a good test for leaders to say, really, how are we going to measure our effectiveness and being willing to try new things certainly in the midst of COVID, with technology and communicating in new and different ways but, I think, also forcing ourselves to say is it just about how people show up or is it about something deeper than that transformation? And how do we measure that? And so I think there were some really good things that happened, even though, from a pragmatic standpoint, covid was so hard on the church. In some ways, many churches are still kind of paying the price for what happened there, but I think God, as he does with all things, he used it as an opportunity for him to do something deeper in us as well. So when you're looking at your own life now, in the future, what are you excited about? What's coming down the road that you want to talk about? Yeah, oh, my gosh, a little plug for yeah.

Kyle O'Neal:

So a couple of things, so church-wise, so we are starting to write music.

Kyle O'Neal:

So there's a series that we're going to be doing right after Easter called Fully Devoted Follower a very big, just phrase that's on Pastor Rob's heart and that, coupled with, we had prayer strike team come in and pray over the church and one of the biggest things that they said in the prayer was that let Jesus be the center of the stage at Shoreline. And like we took both those things to heart and we wrote a song called you Alone, just demoed it last week. We're going to be introducing it to the church soon. So we're excited about just songwriting and having prayers that our church can be having on their lips when they're singing prayers, singing declarations so excited for that. I love that. Yeah, I'm real, real excited for that.

Piet Van Waarde:

You know, I think with this I'm sorry to interrupt, but the talent of the team there doing songwriting, I'm like, yeah, yes, you got to do that. Yeah.

Kyle O'Neal:

I often call it embarrassment of riches, like like we have. Like if you even just look at the front line of our church, like every single person could be a worship leader of church somewhere, but like it's just an embarrassment of riches that we we have at the church. But um, that personally, personally man, my kids are growing up. It's exciting but also scary. So my oldest just turned 15. My youngest just turned 12. So they're finishing out first year of middle school and first year in high school. She's begging to get her learner's permit like all that kind of stuff.

Kyle O'Neal:

So it's just kind of fun watching them grow up and growing. So where my oldest daughter Madison is right now is where I was when I started taking my faith seriously. So it's just kind of fun watching them grow up and growing. So where my oldest daughter, madison is right now is where I was when I started taking my faith seriously. So kind of just seeing that with her. They take notes every single time, whether it's at youth or on Sundays.

Kyle O'Neal:

They're taking notes in a journal, they cannot wait to go to youth, all those type things. So I love just watching them own that. And then just for me and my wife, melissa, it's just a sweet season because we transitioned from we had kids to now we've got teenagers and just learning that the hardships, but also the blessings of it too. So we're in the middle of it. For sure. We've got everything from a oh wow, you still want to hug me and an eye roll to a handhold.

Piet Van Waarde:

Yeah, yeah, yeah Right. But yeah, it's just a fun, fun season that we're in, and you're settling well, cause you're fairly new here. So we.

Kyle O'Neal:

So we moved June last year but I started last April. So I did a kind of unique thing for three months I traveled back and forth, cause we were living in Houston and I spent three days here, four days there and traveling back and forth for three, three months. But it was so that the girls could finish elementary school and middle school. But man, we love Austin Like it's been so good. We get teased because I get told that we do more activities than people that have lived here for all their life but every Friday, saturday, we try to do something.

Kyle O'Neal:

So last weekend we went to the Austin steam train and rode it to the hill country and had lunch and burn it and rode back and it's like we're always just trying to find something to do.

Piet Van Waarde:

There's so much the city has to offer, so, yeah, carol and I made a commitment to at the start of this year. We've been here for five years now and we're like we haven't seen hardly anything the only time we see stuff is when people come to see us yeah, so we have it once a month on our day we're like we're gonna go see something in central texas there you go, and we've seen some fun things too.

Piet Van Waarde:

It's a lot looking. You're right, there's so much to do here. Sounds like we need to go together. That'd be great on the calendar well, this has been really great. Thank you so much I appreciate you taking the time. I know you're super busy, so thanks for hanging out with me for a little bit and loved your input. God bless you, man. Thank you, thank you and thank you for joining us. We're so grateful that you have come and been part of this conversation and hope to see you next time on Sidewalk Conversations.

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