Sidewalk Conversations
"Let the one who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall..." (1 Corinthians 10:12)
Standing strong and remaining true to your calling is no easy task. No one sets out to crash and burn. In fact, it's actually the opposite, most people want to stand strong, remain effective, and be true to their values all the way through to the end. But, it is really hard to do.
In these interviews, Piet Van Waarde (a 40 year veteran of pastoral ministry) has heart-to-heart conversations with ordinary people about what it takes to stay faithful and effective in the things that matter most.
Sidewalk Conversations
Recovery, Faith, and Family: A Journey Through Life's Hardest Challenges with Mike Orenstein
Mike Orenstein shares his journey from military kid to recovery ministry leader, revealing how his unique background prepared him to connect with people across different backgrounds and help them find healing. His candid discussion of personal struggles with addiction and family crisis demonstrates how vulnerability becomes strength when used to help others overcome similar challenges.
• Early life as a military child provided unique perspective on being an outsider and adapting to different cultures
• Ability to connect with diverse groups of people became foundation for ministry work
• Open discussion about overcoming pornography addiction and the importance of accountability
• Breaking the silence around addiction: "You're only as sick as your secrets"
• How the church community rallied when his son was incarcerated
• Navigating marriage during family crisis and being there for each other
• Perspectives on the church's strengths in ministry and challenges with structure
• Personal mission to "heal the brokenhearted and proclaim liberty for captives"
• Passing down protective nature and service mindset to his children
• The essential role of authentic community before crisis strikes
If you're looking to buy or sell a home in the Austin area or Lake LBJ properties, contact our sponsor Carol Van Waarde for skilled and personable real estate service.
All right, he's all set, all right. Give me a little bit more audio, just to Okay, all right Me. Yeah, you talk to me, do I?
Mike Orenstein:want to sing a song? Do we have a black sheet song? That's what you need.
Piet Van Waarde:A black sheet song or a jingle. We do have a black sheet. Oh, yeah, well, that's. Have you any Whoa? Yeah, no, yeah, I don't know we have a. We have a little intro piece that we do. I probably heard it a thousand times at the house because jennifer probably played it over and over and I just didn't realize that was your thing. Yeah, I'll pay. Actually, joel wrote it for me, did he?
Mike Orenstein:yeah loved it. I need to call him. Actually he's been. He's all over my tiktok now, so oh is he.
Piet Van Waarde:Yeah, I'm doing that?
Mike Orenstein:yeah, like heavy raising money doing all of his stuff. So that's the only social media I actually go on, except for like to specifically go read something that you wrote. I only go onto Facebook for literally that thing, because it's a little too much for my. I get sucked in so easy.
Piet Van Waarde:Well, thank you for joining us for another episode of Sidewalk Conversations. I am thrilled to have my guest with me. He's not just an interesting person, he's also a very close personal friend, and so I am excited about introducing him to you in a moment. But before I do, I wanted to say thank you to our sponsor, and our sponsor today happens to be my wife, carol Van Ward. She is a realtor and she works in the Austin area, but she also represents Lake Properties on Lake LBJ, and she's not only a very skilled person, but she's somebody you'll love working with. So if you are looking to buy a home or sell a home, give Carol Van Water a call and we'll put her number in the notes. All right, I want to thank you, mike, for joining us. This is Mike Orenstein, a good friend of mine. Thank you for being here.
Mike Orenstein:Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Piet Van Waarde:Good yeah, we've been talking about this for a while. I think we've tried to do this a couple times we have.
Mike Orenstein:I may or may not have canceled a couple times. Traveling guy yes, but hey, we're here now, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde:Good, good, well, thank you. So I have a little pattern that I tend to do with my guests and that is I like to start kind of early on in their journey, like where they were born, raised kind of some early influences. So tell us a little bit of how your story started.
Mike Orenstein:Yeah, so my story is I mean, it's not unique, a lot of people have it, but most of my friends don't have kind of the same journey. I was, my dad was military Real quick my parents got divorced. My stepdad was military, so I was born in California, but real quickly we traveled to Japan and Alabama and all over the United States, and so the travel was interesting. I'm not sure that I think when I started having kids I realized I wanted them to be in a more stable environment for, like friends wise. But I will say it gave me some really cool experiences that I didn't get. You know, in Alabama I was one of two white males in my school, which gives you a view inside the world that most people don't get to have on being a genuine minority. So I got to some cool things. In Japan, I got to meet some family friends of mine that still live in Houston that are my closest friends, and so I've known them my whole life.
Piet Van Waarde:So I've had some good experiences. You stay in touch with those guys.
Mike Orenstein:Yeah, actually, I'll talk more about that in one of your later questions. But yeah, I'm actually going to go out and see them. Unfortunately, one of them actually has stage four cancer and we just found out two weeks ago. So we're going to go see Chris and he's in Houston now, so then we'll go across and see her right after, as soon as I get back from my trip. So, yeah, yes, they're good friends of mine, their daughter and I. We all lived together years ago when my family was struggling. So it's a very interesting story and story and it all stemmed from us traveling around the world in the military. So, wow, cool, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde:So what were? You already mentioned kind of a little bit about it, how that's kind of giving you an appreciation for longtime friends and you tried to provide that for your own kids. But what are some of the other things that you drew out of your growing up experience that you can see as a thread in your life, right?
Mike Orenstein:now. It's so funny because I can actually answer that question better today. We just traveled to Europe. We went with our, our whole family went right Well, me and the two boys that are available. But Gabe is kind of a world traveler, like he goes to Europe five or six or seven times a year, oh wow. But being there, one of the things he's super conscientious of is not being the American tourist which I have a little different view of.
Mike Orenstein:But you know what I mean, People know what you say. So he was kind of talking through that as we were there a lot. But I realized that, having done as much as I've done in the military with my parents and stuff, I kind of already had that in my head, like being respectful of where you are In Japan. I was truly an outsider there and so you want to learn their culture and be a part of their world, and so I kind of already had that built into me there. And not that there weren't things I had to learn and some nuances to how that works, but I already kind of had in my head of, you know, being new guy or the different guy there, and so it really wasn't a huge challenge for me to be, you know, more culturally sensitive as we were there and be realizing that I'm on their, I'm in their world, they're on mine.
Mike Orenstein:But I do think a lot of that early experiences kind of gave me a good background so it wasn't as challenging as I've seen some other people struggle with when they go to Europe.
Piet Van Waarde:And so you feel like that's like a common thread for like some things in your life where you've always because I've noticed this about you You're kind of one of those guys who can fit in a variety of environments because you're just genuinely yourself and you tend to accept people as they are. So is that something you feel like you've drawn out of your life experience For?
Mike Orenstein:sure, when I was in high school it was so interesting, and I have friends today from high school that still ask me about this. But I kid you not, I was friends with the jocks, with the nerds. I was in school in the 80s, so we were all labeled right.
Piet Van Waarde:Everybody had a label.
Mike Orenstein:But I was genuinely friends with every single group of people. I was in sports but I was also smart. But you're right, I just have this I don't tend to be drawn towards a single type of thing. I really do like variety and my friends, and so I literally had friends in every group of people, even from poor to rich to whatever it didn't. That didn't matter to me as much as who they were as a person and so, and that developed even. I wasn't even that healthy of a high school student. I had issues there, but that I wasn't even that healthy of a high school student, I had issues there. But that has followed me all the way through my life. Jennifer and I have both noticed that we're kind of peacekeepers amongst the groups of peoples because we're in both groups or whatever.
Mike Orenstein:The groups are right and even at church we find that a lot, where we tend to be peacemakers between two different groups of people, and so it's sometimes a struggle, but I really like it because, I don't know, it just has made me a more well-rounded person who's also taught me things that have helped me in ministry. Work right In ministry. You're going to work with every kind of person.
Piet Van Waarde:Yeah, Well, that's a great lead-in to the next question I wanted to ask you about. So you're very active in the recovery ministry at our church and part of that, I would guess, is a product of the fact that you're very nonjudgmental. You kind of move into any number of circles and feel comfortable and they feel comfortable with you. But tell me a little bit about what stimulated your interest in recovery.
Mike Orenstein:Yeah, in general my parents weren't really great at the concept of being around for other people, but somewhere along my journey I just had, you know, being in different groups in school. People would come to me and just ask me questions and say, how do you do this, how do you do that? So as I became a Christian in my early 20s, I just kind of already had this view of you know how to kind of be there for other people. And then when I first got into ministry, the church I went to was really good. They had, I mean, hundreds of different ministries and I just saw the church really being active in the world. World and I'm like I want to be a part of this.
Mike Orenstein:Jennifer and I got mixed up pretty quick in marriage ministry, premarital ministry, those kinds of things, all kinds of things. But I kind of always realized that I had that kind of inside me already. The church has kind of helped me put a formation around that right, a place that already has a structure involved, because my strength is not doing it from the ground up. My strength is coming into something that maybe has a little structure and I can kind of make it my own or build it up and so.
Mike Orenstein:So we've certainly done that with the recovery work, yeah, so recovery is interesting because a chunk down our journey of doing other ministry, jennifer and I both realized, especially as chris went off to incarceration, that we both had our own issues. So recovery kind of came as a side effect of already being in ministry and then realizing that we had struggles and that not only do we need to work on our own struggles but but through our working on our own struggles we can help others go through that journey. Right, We've been there, We've done that, we know it.
Mike Orenstein:It doesn't mean you're done or you're perfect, but and you're right, the biggest key is is when somebody comes to me, I don't have any top front judgment. I do the newcomers 101, which is anybody that's new. I tell them you say you're also not going to catch me judging you or saying anything. Most likely I've made the same mistake as you and probably more, to be honest, because I was a champion in that area and that's not a good thing, but it really does help to know that and to have that inside of you.
Mike Orenstein:So yeah, our own recovery journeys have helped us be better leaders and pastors of recovery at the church.
Piet Van Waarde:Well, and I think that's what makes for a good recovery leader, right? If you're trying to like, if you come from a perspective like I got this figured out and if you come to me I will give you the right answers, that's just not going to work. But if you say, like I'm a fellow struggler, I'm working through my crap and I'm going to do my best to do, you know the work I need to do, but hey, let's walk together. I think that's at the heart of recovery, right?
Mike Orenstein:When I very first started working with the recovery program Sober Recovery at Shoreline. One of the things that was one of my biggest struggles was that's what was happening a little bit. They were just bringing people from other ministries to help fill leadership positions and I was the first person to come in and be like we can't do this. It doesn't fit well because you're right, when we first stand up and speak at Self-Recovery, we say our thing, we say I am a beloved believer in Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. I struggle with this and my name is this. Your identity and your struggle are two different things. But having a background and understanding of it and working through it yourself is really the only Authenticity, is a critical part of recovery. There's no way around it. You cannot fake it. You cannot be there for somebody if you just have literally no concept or background of it. You can be empathetic and you can be in their corner, but to really do the journey you have got to have gone through some of it yourself, absolutely.
Piet Van Waarde:All right. So that leads me to a more sensitive question. Your own journey has included a challenge with pornography, which, in our day, just seems to be so prolific and it's so pervasive. One click away and you can see whatever you want to see. And so I have two questions on that. One is like, and like I've noticed that there are some things you can talk about and there's like literally very little shame factor. Like you can say, I've struggled with drugs, I've struggled with drinking, I've struggled with you know. You can even say I've had suicidal thoughts, I wanted to kill somebody, and there seems to be more grace for that kind of struggle than if you say, man, I've been addicted to porn. It's just like, at a whole nother level. So the first question is what gave you the courage to come up with the willingness, I guess, to say hey, yeah, no, this is my struggle.
Mike Orenstein:You know you made a great point because you are not wrong. So I was introduced to I would just call it pornography In my day. It was a little bit unique because it wasn't quite the ability that we have today. Right, you're talking like magazines, but I was introduced to things at a too young of age for my body to understand it and that's kind of what set me off in that journey. It wasn't like a traumatic event. There were some things in my past that you know were traumatic events, but just the introduction is something. I felt like the whole room went silent that first day we had done a special event. There was like 300 people in the chapel and I kid you not. Now, to be honest with you, I don't actually know what happened because I feel like I might have blanked out it was so weird, but having stood up in front of people for the first time, saying it publicly, really was profound.
Mike Orenstein:But you know, the craziest part After the fact was not judgment, was not any of the things that you have in your head. I had a line of men and women, and so you know, subway Recovery I won't counsel women and we do men on men, so I had to, you know, give them to somebody else. But I had a lot of people waiting to ask me questions because no one had, even at CR, nobody had said that yet and that's the R, and so I was kind of surprised. But also it opened the door to now, where you know, yes, it was uncomfortable at first, but now I love the fact that I've been free of it for more than 10 years and I can help people in that journey. Because you kind of touched on two things Also most people don't realize that drugs and alcohol. I think it's pretty obvious that it's an addiction, right? I don't think anybody struggles with saying that. A lot of people don't believe that pornography is an addiction.
Mike Orenstein:But, in your brain. It works exactly like cocaine it rewires your brain and the only way to stop doing it is to unwire the negative wiring. You know neurolinguistic programming. It works exactly the same, but the world as a whole doesn't view that right.
Piet Van Waarde:So was there something that finally said, look, I got to do something about this.
Mike Orenstein:Yeah. So this is an interesting. It's a long, but in 2008, my doctor said I was doing some things I shouldn't be doing with drugs and alcohol. My doctor said stop doing it or you're going to die. I kid you not, but I did Cold turkey Like you know what. Hey, I don't want to die. I'm, you know, I'm not that into my stuff.
Mike Orenstein:But what I didn't do was work on my issues and the reason I was using drugs was from trauma from my past. So I stopped drinking and smoking. But I started doing my pornography addiction ramped up because, like I said, it's an addiction like no others I wasn't using. Here. I didn't have a comfort because I hadn't worked on my issues. So I just picked up a whole new addiction.
Mike Orenstein:But that had huge effects on my marriage, on my relationship, as I started having kids and they started getting older. I did not want my kids to follow in my footpath. So at one point in time, really, when we started getting into CR, I was like I don't want this in my life anymore. I want freedom from this, and I just made the decision through the help of Jesus Christ, thank the Lord. I know the Lord because there was no way around that, but it was just a day where I'm like I can't do this and the concept of you're only as sick as your secrets is 1000% true. Once it was on the table and out there, people asked me I will be at the Rudy's barbecue place and somebody hey, mike, it was good to see you at church and they'll ask me a question and they'll say the word porn at Rudy's barbecue.
Piet Van Waarde:Do I love that? I do not, but I'm comfortable now, to be like hey, you know, let's go over here and maybe talk over here a little bit, but I don't have that shame factory because you know I'm not saying I've conquered it with the sense of your mind is always going to be a battle until we're in heaven.
Mike Orenstein:That's my belief system. But I've conquered it with the fact that I don't act out like I did and I have a really good comfort level with talking about it and being open and calling my sponsors and letting people into my life to help me stay on this journey forever. But eventually you just get to that place that you are like I have got to get this out of me. It's causing damage in the areas I don't want damage. I love marriage ministry. We've kind of always been a part of it and our marriage was falling apart due to my own issues, right. So I have to make changes there. If I'm going to help others, I've got to fix my own marriage right. Fix your own house first.
Piet Van Waarde:So when you talk about it like an addiction and you're dealing with it, do you find yourself saying okay, a lot of the principles like the 12 steps and so on are applicable in this area as well as in other. Quote unquote more typical addictions 100%.
Mike Orenstein:I mean really step one. Denial is the critical part. Once you realize even if you're not convinced it's a quote addiction, just knowing that you have a situation that's causing you to be a way that you don't want to be, or it's having impact in your life, that's a huge step. Usually, once you can get over that hump, you can be like okay, I admit, I have an issue and you're almost always willing to then take the steps to get rid of it. But yeah, the root of why you do that the average person doesn't take up drinking or smoking or pornography for absolutely no reason. That's not usually the case. Usually there was some trauma, they were abused as a child or whatever. So you kind of try to backtrack and say, okay, how did you even get on the path of addiction, whatever?
Piet Van Waarde:your addiction is, and those roots are always the same. It's obviously meeting.
Mike Orenstein:some need Absolutely.
Mike Orenstein:Trying to fill a hole of something Exactly, and that's the goal is to backtrack and see where along the way did something happen or where did that hole come in. Sometimes, I think it's even just having walked away from Jesus. You start filling with things that aren't God because you've walked away from having him in that place. So yeah, the steps to break the addiction are very similar, but I will tell you in my experience, I feel like it's harder because, like you said, you can be in your bedroom by yourself. I travel a ton right, and I have massive accountability when I travel. My computer's locked down. I have a government computer, so it's literally locked down, but I am also on the phone with my sponsors and my people all the time, because it's something that you literally have no accountability. If you're not willing to take care of it yourself, you're going to do it, and so you really have to put some steps in place. So the outcome is a little more challenging to get to, but the steps to get there are exactly the same.
Piet Van Waarde:So now let's say there's somebody listening to you talk about this and they say, man, this guy's talking about the stuff that I'm dealing with right now, which I'm sure you have people talk to you all the time about that Almost every day yeah.
Piet Van Waarde:So what is it that you typically say on the front end of it? To say here's one, two, three what you need to do. You're like I know you don't want to be in this place, You're tired of it, you feel guilt, you feel shame. What are the three first things you tell people?
Mike Orenstein:Yeah. So that's a great question. It kind of comes in two prongs because Celebrate Recovery itself as a ministry actually gears the newcomer knight to someone who doesn't even believe in Jesus Christ. So a lot of times, if it's someone who I'm not sure believes in Jesus, I will start the conversation with just kind of talk to it a little bit. Hey, walk me through what it is you think you have going on. Give me a little more of your story and your history, right, just to get them to open up a tiny bit about it, because most likely they've never talked about it in their whole lives.
Mike Orenstein:So first step is just kind of get some freedom there. On the other side of it is, if you do believe in Jesus, one of the first things we do is talk you through. Hey, let's talk about your relationship with Jesus and have you prayed about this? Have you done any of the things that you might know to do in this area? Those kind of work out in two very different once you've done the first six lessons, we actually walk people through accepting Jesus Christ, because I firmly believe that ultimately on this earth to really conquer your situations, you need Jesus in your heart. I just don't see an easy worldly view.
Mike Orenstein:Most of my leaders will tell you they white-knuckled it for 10 years and they've accepted Jesus Christ and not that it isn't hard, but you then have this new foundation, you have this new hope in this person that can walk you through this and be there for you. So it kind of depends on which direction they're coming from for me and how I will approach that.
Piet Van Waarde:Man. That's a great word. And there's all these scriptures, obviously, that talk about the Spirit of God that lives within us. So it's not just like I'm adhering to a new set of beliefs. I'm actually receiving something I could never have on my own, and that is the person of Christ. Yeah, I agree, and when that spirit is living in you, you have an access to power that you could never generate on your own.
Mike Orenstein:Yeah, you know that's so profound, because I found myself the last few weeks with my travel schedule getting kind of off in my own anxiety and even getting myself feeling like it. And so I'll step back and my life coach will ask me hey, so what have you done differently or what aren't you doing? The first thing is almost always my morning Bible study. It doesn't have to be morning, right, I just tend to do it in the morning. But when I don't do the things I know I need to do to connect with God early in the day, it has 100% impact. And if I go more than one day, that impact is greater and greater. So you're right. And then remembering, like you said, that this isn't a nebulous book. This is the power that has come into us with the Holy Spirit and knowing that he absolutely can fix something that you probably have no control over. I don't know how people live on this earth without that, because I look at that as my hope, and the world is a challenging place and without having that, hope.
Mike Orenstein:I don't know what my outlook would be without Jesus in my heart. It really is a big deal to me and to my family as a whole. Yeah.
Piet Van Waarde:Now that leads me into another area of life that has been a bit of a challenge for you. You have three great kids, and yet you've had challenges, like every parent does, including one of your kids being incarcerated. And I'm just curious, you know, I've heard it said this way you're only as happy as your saddest kid, and so when you are dealing with something that is, as you know, as difficult as watching one of your kids go into prison, it's at another level right, and so, thankfully, we just got news that he's soon on his way out and I'm grateful for that, but talk a little bit about how you navigated that situation for you and Jennifer, and maybe even how the Lord helped you work through some of that challenge.
Mike Orenstein:Yeah, it's interesting. You should say it because not only is it hard to talk about pornography, but the accusation against my son is in a related area, and so you won't see people even tell people what their kid's in there for. Now we know his story, we know that he didn't actually do what he was in there for, but the average person on the street that sees it or reads this thing in there doesn't believe that or doesn't understand that. Right, but it's so funny because it's not funny. It's interesting. But this is just statistics, I think is important.
Mike Orenstein:80% of people that go through this type of trauma get divorced, and the reason they get divorced is not what you would think. A lot of times it's their own internal struggle. They're like this was my fault, I'm responsible, or they blame their spouse. Hey, you're the one you know like you had been Right If you had been addicted to pornography, even though my son didn't even commit this. Those are things that still happen in a relationship because you're dealing with such a high level of trauma, but also just even the dealing with it and going through it and having the ability.
Mike Orenstein:When I first started posting about it on Facebook, I was on Facebook back then, like I said, I need prayers for this and I wasn't getting specific. But Jennifer was like, hey, I don't know if I really want this out there, but I was like I want as much prayer as I can get around us immediately and that at the time was the best way to get out the news right. But we both made a commitment early on to work on ourselves. My wife had her first battle of anxiety ever and we got help right away. Pastor Cheryl and Kelly and the church went around us like I've never seen before, like the church you talked about how we got through it. The very day it happened I was standing outside the jail. Pastor Cheryl and I had barely met. We knew her a little bit, but only a couple of years into being here and she called me out of the blue.
Mike Orenstein:She had never, ever called me and she called me and she's like hey, I felt led by the Lord to call you right now. Oh wow, I burst into tears. I'm standing on the little parking strip at the prison. They won't let me in because my son's not a minor. My son was an adult when he went to jail, so they wouldn't let me in to see him or anything. So I'm standing literally in the parking lot at the prison, crying my eyes out, and Pastor Cheryl calls out of the blue and she's like hey, god told me to call you. What do you need? And I I don't have a doggone clue what I need to be honest with you.
Mike Orenstein:But all she said to me was get your people head to Otto and Sandy's house. We were already in their small group at that time and I will have every pastor there that needs to be there. Sure enough, we went over to Otto and Sandy's just on autopilot. Luckily the prison was in Pflugerville, so it was close and within a one-hour period, all't none of that. But like, what do you need? You know, my wife for anxiety was being spiked because she stopped eating for a few days, because she had never experienced anxiety. So the first thing was hey, we need to get some food in your body, like the tangible stuff and having those friends around us, like right away, was just so powerful.
Mike Orenstein:And then the Lord has seen fit, thankfully, to make it so early on. Jennifer spiked quickly and got that where I was able to stay. Even though I had a panic attack in the parking lot I was still able to kind of maintain my composure. So for the first few months I was being there for Jennifer and making sure she had what she needed. Then at some juncture she got more healthy and I dropped into the deep end and I went off. But then she was able to help me right, because she also then was coming out of hers a little bit and had the power to help me. So at any given time one of us was just healthy enough to walk through it with the other person.
Mike Orenstein:And I had already been in CR, so I already had a support system. She went to CR that first night. Kelly Mata was speaking that night. She said, hey, I know you're not in CR, but just come. And Jennifer went and she's never left because she found our hearts. And having people that never once questioned anything about the situation, just said what do you need, was profound and it just kept us solid. And then we both made the agreement that we were going to make sure we worked on ourselves and made sure that marriage and our family stayed strong. And I will confess that early on our marriage didn't struggle, but we didn't realize the hit it was having on our remaining children. And so I, you know, confess some parenting fails early on, which we have since corrected.
Mike Orenstein:And as chris is about to come home, we're navigating how that might look and try to be there better for our children, because when you're in crisis yourself, you think you're there for somebody else, but we really realize we weren't but, again, people from the church and people around us rallied up and and stood up for our kids and filled into these places that we weren't able to fill in for because we just didn't have the ability well, I think that says a lot about you guys too, that you, you had the kind of community already existing so that when the call was made, all these people kind of came around.
Piet Van Waarde:And that's what I always find myself saying to others is, like you know, when you're going to have a crisis in your life, it's going to to come and, like you said, it's going to be navigated with the work of the Holy Spirit in your life, through the Lord. But then there's that other component, which is the tangible expression of his love through people, and if you don't have those connections before the crisis comes, you're not going to have the energy of the wherewithal once the crisis hits to try and establish your community. It's it's like you got to make this investment before you think you need it. That's good and uh, and I think you know the fact that so many people were willing to come around as a testament to your understanding of that.
Mike Orenstein:I think that goes back to your first question. Right with that foundation in church in jesus christ and having realized right away that even our very first group at church when we're young was a premarital group, that I was evening with my brother and stepsister because we and sister-in-law now right who were in denver, so we kind of built that, we started that journey pretty early. But you're right, we got here pretty quick. Pastor cheryl, very first time ever. Sorry. I was like, hey, I need you to be on the parking team and I need you to sit in this row behind. I was on the safety team. I need you to watch pastor robin laura's bro, here and I was like cool, who are you?
Piet Van Waarde:Maybe we could start with some introductions.
Mike Orenstein:But she knew in her heart that I was there to serve and that was the craziest thing. I love that. I'm not sure I had even seen that yet, right, because I kid you not, it was the first week we'd been in town.
Mike Orenstein:But, people like her who had this real sensitivity to the Spirit, knew right away and, like I said, she's still my life coach, sam, and know we're still friends with this entire group of people that were there. Nothing's changed. We still meet with every single one of them. It's so interesting and they're all as excited as I am for Chris to finally come home, which again says something they're truly invested in our lives and I like that.
Piet Van Waarde:So when we talk about the church because you've been mentioning it a number of times you know I find myself and I know we've had enough conversations offline. You have similar feelings, but there are some really wonderful things that you can see in the church, and then there's some stuff that you're like I don't get that.
Mike Orenstein:That seems a little strange to me or that doesn't make sense to me.
Piet Van Waarde:So I'm, you know, as a ministry leader, as somebody who's been active in the church, you know I would like you to kind of play out both sides of that, like when active in the church. I would like you to kind of play out both sides of that. When you look at the church in the world today, what are some of the things that make you say you know what, I'm so glad the church exists. And then we'll get to the other side of here are things maybe I'm concerned with.
Mike Orenstein:Yeah, I think people don't really see what the church does because I don't think they take the time to look. But even just speaking of Shoreline Church, like we support orphanages all around the world, we do things that nobody else is willing to do. In countries like Haiti that we both know the government has no infrastructure whatsoever, so the only place doing anything there is the church, and so I see that the ministries like Cyber Recovery only operates in churches. It doesn't exist anywhere else. It's done inside the safe place of a church. So I think, ministry-wise, I think churches are doing a really good job of hosting all these things that God has called us to do and, like Shoreline happens to be a nice big building right, so we get to host. I don't even know what we have now. We have a ton of small groups because we were blessed with a physical location. That's amazing. So I think that in that area, the church is really strong, and I do also believe when you walk in the doors of a church, I think we do a really good job of that early introduction in grace and hey, welcome in. We don't care where you're from. Let's really talk through this. Let's say what do you need. What are you here for? How can we help you?
Mike Orenstein:I do think that most churches do a really good job at that first line hey, what can we do for you? Powerful, and I have the blessing of being the leader of all the churches in Austin for Sub-Recovery, so I literally go to like 30 different churches. I don't attend them and I go there to help them with their ministries. I know the pastors there, so I see this play out in almost every church. There's this really good front line of hey, no-transcript, but it is not my area of expertise and no disrespect, it's not my favorite thing to do. But having that in there and already having a side, what are some of the things that?
Piet Van Waarde:you look at and you go. Man, we got to figure that out, yeah.
Mike Orenstein:You know, going back to my early history, I was raised Jewish. When I was younger which no disrespect I love my Jewish heritage, it's all over my body and tattoos but Jewish is very strict and is based on you living out these whatever 617 rules right. Then, when my mom got remarried to a Catholic, we had a whole other, different set of rules that were based on how you acted and were there right. And I think the bottom line is, when man gets too involved with structure of religion, we lose the point of what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. And so I feel like and this is just the honest truth I feel like the Western church had gotten so. You know, I don't know what the right word is, but we've let man make the rules over what God would be doing and we put God in a box. And I think when you start to put God in a box, you forget that he is over everything and has the power to do all things.
Mike Orenstein:And so I think we just I think humans have done things that we shouldn't have, and the Western church is really famous for that. And also there is a challenge for me in my life. The mixing of money and church is really a challenge. You need the money to run the church. I'm a full believer. We're starting our own nonprofit. I already know right ahead. You know you need to have that, but I also see where sometimes that becomes the hyper-focus. You can see on the news every time all these people that are falling and one of the things they're doing is hiding money or stealing money, and so I think this concept of mixing God with money becomes a challenge. I think it can be done right. We've seen some powerful places use it. We may have ministries like this one that do a really good job, but I just think that we've put so much overhead on the church to make it almost like a business that we maybe have lost focus on what we were called to do, which is just stone cold ministry, right, yeah, yeah.
Piet Van Waarde:And it's right because you feel like, okay, well, if we want to get this thing done, that's going to require resources, and when you can leverage resources, you can do some pretty impressive things. But then you know, any time I remember when I was serving as a senior leader in a church, you could almost feel it any time there was the conversation about the offering. You can feel it in the room. Oh yeah, here we go again. You know I'm asking for money, and then all you need is a few reports in the news about people you know, using it poorly or benefiting themselves through the lavish lifestyles and all that you kind of go.
Piet Van Waarde:see, you can't trust those guys. So it is a dilemma and I pray regularly for our congregation, but also for the church in general, that we'll kind of sort that out in ways that people will understand the need and that we will be responsible with the gift.
Mike Orenstein:I think we need to be careful too, because what you said is the truth. I think people gauge their understanding of church and religion based on the news, and the news is really mostly only going to report when the bad things happen. Right, I don't want to guess, but there's a ton of churches in the US doing really good work on minimal budgets and they're really being there for people. So, as a whole, I really think there's a lot of good. I just don't think that's what you see, because no one wants to report on a church doing the right thing because that's not newsworthy right For me and you.
Mike Orenstein:it's newsworthy because it's powerful for me, but it's just not something. So I think a lot of people that get their concept of church, that don't go to church and see nothing but the news, they're just getting such a small viewpoint and, yes, we're humans. So there's epic fails amongst all of us. I have failed multiple times in my life. I will continue to fail until I'm in heaven. I already know that. And I'm not that sad about it anymore because I have a good infrastructure in place. I'm excited about the future, so that's good.
Piet Van Waarde:All right, so I'd like to ask a last question, which is about your life mission or vision, and you told me beforehand you actually had a vision statement written, so I'd love for you to share that, yeah, and I'm going to read this because, honestly, my wife wrote it and it's just much better if I use her exact words.
Mike Orenstein:And I will speak on twofold, because I also kind of have a side one of my own life. But our mission statement for our home is in this house, we use the wisdom given to us by God through his word and the freedom and recovery gained by the redemptive work of Christ on the cross, to heal the brokenhearted, proclaim liberty for the captives and open the prison doors for those who are bound.
Piet Van Waarde:That sounds familiar. There's like some mission of Jesus in there somewhere. A little bit right, hopefully right.
Mike Orenstein:But my wife, as you know, is profoundly faith-driven, where I'm a lot more logical-driven, and so she's able to do this. But also, going all the way back to my youth, I saw enough things happen negative that I've always had a protective spirit. I've always wanted to be there for other people. Even when I travel, I'm always texting my wife, even just for safety things. But all three of my boys have this profoundly protective nature. My son has his own security business, even as a side business, and all my boys are there.
Mike Orenstein:So, also as kind of a side mission thing, I want to make sure that I'm keeping focus on. We were put on this earth to be there for other people in whatever capacity it looks like. And yes, for maybe us it's a little more hyper-focused on and protection isn't just physical protection, spiritual protection and recovery protection, right, and all that stuff. But God has seen fit to put that in me and I've seen it even develop in a much greater capacity in my boys, like they took the mantle and have gone with it in profound ways, and so I just love being able to see what God has done and being able to, you know, to do more with it than I was able to do even myself. So perfect.
Piet Van Waarde:Well, mike, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation. I appreciate you being with today. I know you're crazy busy and getting ready to travel again, so for you to take the time out really means a lot.
Mike Orenstein:So thank you. Thank you for having me here. I appreciate it, I love it. Honestly, talking through this stuff is always good. It's always beneficial.
Piet Van Waarde:so thank you, and thank you for joining us. We invite you back.
