Sidewalk Conversations
"Let the one who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall..." (1 Corinthians 10:12)
Standing strong and remaining true to your calling is no easy task. No one sets out to crash and burn. In fact, it's actually the opposite, most people want to stand strong, remain effective, and be true to their values all the way through to the end. But, it is really hard to do.
In these interviews, Piet Van Waarde (a 40 year veteran of pastoral ministry) has heart-to-heart conversations with ordinary people about what it takes to stay faithful and effective in the things that matter most.
Sidewalk Conversations
Missionaries to America? That’s Not a Plot Twist, That’s the Plot with Jurie Kriel
Jurie Kriel joins us to share how a missionary call to America led to Austin, Texas, why “success is obedience,” and how rapid change demands anticipation, not anxiety. We explore AI-era identity, digital polarization, and the rhythms that keep leaders rooted at home and with God.
• his missionary call from South Africa to the US and Austin
• leadership as growing others and obeying God
• cultural insights on homelessness, comfort and consumerism
• the world’s accelerating change and anticipatory leadership
• identity crisis in the age of AI and spiritual grounding
• digital natives, curated feeds and fractured common ground
• curator leadership, shared language and platforming others
• priority over balance, family rhythms and strategic neglect
• challenging past success and releasing the familiar
If you're interested in learning more about Jurie's new book, Hitting the Ball You Cannot See, you can find it here!
Their support helps make this happen. If you're looking for a church, they might be the one for you!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
All right, welcome to another Sidewalk Conversation. I am your host, Pete Van Ward, and I'm so glad that you've decided to join us. And uh I have always had an interest in the topic of leadership from very early on in my Christian journey. I was fascinated by people who could lead well. And maybe part of it was because I didn't see myself as a very effective leader. It wasn't something that naturally came to me. And so I watched a lot of other people and learned as much as I could from watching those people and then listening to what they had to say. And so I became a ferocious reader and I became a student of other leaders. And a quote that stuck with me from fairly early on was by the notorious CEO of GE, Jack Welsh, where he said, When you are not yet a leader, success is all about growing yourself. But once you become a leader, success is all about growing others. Now, the guest that I have today has been about that second part of the equation for as long as I've known him. And I'm I'm sure that as you hear his story, you're going to be impressed by all the ways that God has used him as an influencer in the lives of other people, not just here locally in the States, but actually all around the world. And so I'm very excited about you having an opportunity to meet him, and I can't wait to introduce him to you. That's the church that I attend as a volunteer, and many of the guests that I've had are also part of that congregation. And if you happen to be in the Austin area and you're looking for a home church, I just want to suggest that Shoreline might be a church for you to consider. They are also generous supporters of the foundation that supports this work. And so it's not just that they're a good church. I have a special uh uh appreciation for the work that they do in supporting this work. And in fact, the guest that I have today is one of the pastors at that church. And so, would you help me welcome my guest, Yuri Creel? Thank you, Yuri, for being here. Thanks, Pete.
SPEAKER_02:It's good to be with you.
SPEAKER_00:All right, people are gonna know right off the bat, by your accident, that you are not Texan. What do you mean?
SPEAKER_01:It's my uh it's my southern draw. It's just a different south. It's not uh Yeah, a little further south. A little further south, South Africa.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so um that's actually where I want to begin. I want to just kind of get a little like 30,000-foot view of your story and your life. And um like, how did you get from South Africa to southern Texas or southern Texas? Only Jesus.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So I mean, the the the story for us was interesting. I mean, we were uh actually the day Corin and I met, uh, we were 17, and our very first conversation was about the call of God upon our lives and how we both felt a call to the U.S. as missionaries, which is strange for South Africans to feel called to the US. Yeah. So, I mean, fast forward many years, uh married life, two kids, uh, two churches, uh, multiple things later, um, God's reminding us of this call. And so uh through a long series of events, he confirms it. And then uh eventually we know it's the US, but we have no idea where. And God challenges us to start handing over leadership. So there's an 18-month period where we're handing over leadership and kind of stepping out in faith, knowing that it's the US, but the US is a big place. Um and uh I uh at the time uh I was pastoring a church, but I was also uh helping lead a city unity movement in our city, and uh through a series of events, I got to know Tim Hawkes in Austin. Uh just we became back then it was Skype, right? So it kind of dates the story a little bit, but uh we we became friends over Skype and uh he watched some of my preaching online, invites me to preach his uh at his church, and um I have no idea, I have no idea where Austin is. I I asked him if it's far from New York because I had meetings in New York, and he was like, it's close, and I'm like, it's not close, but anyway, so I'm heading to Austin, uh having never been, and uh God actually spoke to me in a dream. Um Wow Uh, which you know has never been that vivid in my life. Uh come to Austin, spend a weekend here, I just know this is where God wants us. Um yeah, so fast forward, you know, another 18 months. Uh, and uh, you know, God made the way and everything else. So one day I sat to him down and I said, Do you do you remember how I was so sure that God wanted me here? Well, God spoke to me in a dream.
SPEAKER_00:So it's uh was quite the quite the story. Uh just to back up a little bit, so the whole idea of being a missionary to the US, yeah. Like normally we think of missionary work being to you know third world countries and such. Not too many Africans being missionaries to, you know. Yeah. So did you like when you first began to feel that impression, did you have like a sense of like, Lord, are you is this and did anybody else like question it for you? Did they say like oh everybody?
SPEAKER_02:I I mean it's you know, if if if God calls you to something and you feel like I can do this, it's probably not God because He calls us to stuff that we can't do by ourselves. Um, and this was definitely one of those. So this was one of those moments where you you know it's got to be God, and understanding it, I guess, is um I mean when when we felt called here, uh the the whole idea of the dechurching of the next generation in the US wasn't a concept.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But as we became a part of it, we very soon realized that uh the contrast of different spaces and other places and an experience of God that wasn't necessarily uh bred within the local church context. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's that old thing of you know, never ask a fish for the temperature of the water because it doesn't know the temperature, it's just the water. Yeah, right. And oftentimes when you grow up in a particular culture in a particular space, you don't know the ins and outs of that culture because you've got nothing to contrast it with.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And actually, as we started fulfilling the mission of God in the US, we increasingly realized that something we could bring was a little bit of that contrast because you know, we came into the water from another space.
SPEAKER_00:I love that analogy. Awesome. Okay, so when you came to the States, what were what were some of the like surprises, transitions that uh you had to make? Obviously, there's a language thing and all that, but like were were there some significant like what I had to learn to speak American, which isn't English.
SPEAKER_02:So I that's an ongoing project. We haven't got that one down. Um I think there's a couple of things uh I've I've been privileged in that I've I've traveled to 46 countries and you know seen a lot of the world and we had worked extensively in Europe, planting churches and doing other things. So I I got to see a lot, but it's different to live in a place than to visit a place. Yeah, right. So so even visiting the US, ministering in the US is very different than than assimilating into a culture and becoming a part of that culture. So um some of the some of the early shocks in the process was that homeless people wore shoes, which for most Americans is of course homeless people wear shoes. But but in most of the world, if you're homeless, you're you don't have money for shoes. Yeah, right. And if you can't afford shoes, you're probably okay to live with other people. And and this is what I've learned is I've learned that actually homelessness isn't the lack of money, it's the lack of relationship. Um now you could say it's mental health, you could say it's many different things, you could say it's opportunity, but the reality is by the time a person ends up shelterless, it means that they've burnt every relationship to the point where that's where they're at. Yeah. Um, so it's it's those types of dynamics that I think was really interesting for us living in this context and seeing how addressing the needs of community needs to look different in this context than what it does in an African context or in a European context. Yeah, yeah. And so it's just that exegeting of your society was a very uh it was a great learning curve for us. Um, we love, love Austinites and Texans and Americans in general. What an incredible, generous and uh God-fearing, welcoming people. But at the same time, uh consumerism is rife. Yeah, and comfort is king. And those things don't necessarily go with the gospel as I read it. So it's a wonderful people to get to know and to to minister to. Uh, but at the same time, you know, there's some there's some parts of culture. Any culture has components that are good, components that are neutral, and components that are bad. Yeah. And it's discerning which parts of this culture do you assimilate and just pick up and you know, because they're it's good, yeah, which things are neutral and you know, it doesn't matter, and which things need to be addressed. And sometimes coming from another culture helps you see that and and position you to say something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Now you have we we started in the opening talking a little bit about leadership and the importance of taking other people with you. You seem to have had like a sense of that from very early on in your ministry. Uh, two questions I have about that. One is like what prompted that in you? Like, what was it that caused you to believe like this is a responsibility? Like, not just I have this calling over here and this might happen along the way. It's like, no, this is a central piece of what I'm supposed to do. Like, where did that come from? And and what are you discovering about that as you go?
SPEAKER_02:It it I'd I'd say the biggest lesson for me uh in that just kind of latching onto moving here, um, was that success is obedience. It's not a number of people, it's not a certain amount in your 401k. Yeah, yeah, it's not fame or fortune. Success is obedience. And if you have any other definition of success, it will drive you into things that isn't godly. And and it was such a good lesson for us to to to move from uh a space where we had seeming success to starting over with nothing, you know, packing your life into eight suitcases was such a good moment for us to kind of learn that success is obedience. And and for me, that is leadership. Whether you're you're leading as a homemaker at home and you're leading your kids, if that's what God has called you to and that's all you do, then that success is that. Yeah. And if God's called you to lead thousands of people, then success is that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so I think you you mentioned early on, and I'll I'll comment on that as well, is I think uh a lot is being said in contemporary culture about this idea of self-discovery. But the reality is that if you discover yourself in Christ, what you grow in is not only love of self, but discovering yourself in Christ causes you to love others. Yeah, and then you can no longer live for self. And I think that's sometimes the problem with self-discovery is we pitch self-discovery, we pitch self-love as the this self-fulfilling reality. But self-made people, yeah, self-made people worship their creator.
unknown:Good point.
SPEAKER_02:But if we are God-made people, yeah, then we recognize the image of God in others, and then we can't help but live for others. Yeah. And I think that's the the essence of leadership is loving other people.
SPEAKER_00:And and what and what does that look like for you? So I I I know you've had a a number of different projects. You do a lot of traveling around the world. So this whole idea of leadership development is like core to your calling. What is it, what is it, how does it play out for you?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think it it it plays out for all of us in the application of our gifts, right? So God has given us the each of us the ability to do certain things well. So how do you how do you do the things that you do well for the sake of other people is what it comes down to. Um I I I am not very smart, but I've got amazing friends. So most of the most of the things I do around the world is is essentially just that. It's it's building bridges, it's building platforms for others, it's trying to find the golden people and and lifting it out of them. And nothing is more fulfilling for me than seeing others flourish. So um that's the hope. That's the goal. Whether I always manage that is a whole nother story, but it certainly is the desire.
SPEAKER_00:And when you look at the world and what you're addressing in the world in terms of leadership and leadership development, um two follow-up questions. What are you excited about? Like, what do you see out there that's encouraging? And is there something that's like giving you pause? Like, I don't know, that's not looking very good.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm I'm gonna answer the question in inverse. Um, so I I I recently ended up writing a book. I I've for many years I've I've been saying, um, I don't want to write a book because there's enough books out there, right? And and in actual fact, I was gonna write a book on if ever I write a book, I wanted to write a book on followership because everybody's writing about leadership. And you know, when are we gonna learn to follow? Um, but then I I got involved in a conversation. One of the things I lead is called the Next Move Community, and it's a it's a community of transformational relationships um uh from you know leaders around the world. And we had a conversation about uh trusting God for revival in the next generation. And in the process, we had to kind of understand culture, right? So we we were trying to be like the sons of Issachar in in 1 Chronicles 12 to understand the times. And so we went through that exercise. Out of that conversation, I got invited uh by the World Evangelical Alliance to facilitate a conversation uh with 270 leaders from uh all around the world around in Istanbul on this issue of the future of the gospel. And then uh out of that, I got invited by the International Council of Evangelical Theological Education. It's a mouthful. Uh to stumbling. I've had to say it a couple of times. But anyway, so I did a consultation for them uh in Albania on the future of theological education. Parallel to this, I was working with the Lusanne movement, which is kind of the United Nations for the church, right? So 30,000 denominations around the world subscribe to the Lusanne Covenant, and it's kind of this unifying body uh on the States of the Great Commission report. So all of this kind of culminated in this body of information about the states of the world. Um and I realized that in a rapidly changing world, we've gotta we've gotta respond differently. Um and so to your first to your question, the first part is is what gives me pause is the rate of change around the world gives me pause. Humanity isn't made to respond at the rate that we're having to respond. Uh if you think about it, the world has changed more in 10 years than in 50 years before that. It's changed more in since the year 2000 than what it changed since the 40s, right? So, and if you look at it, the last hundred years of human existence has changed more than the thousand years before that.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Um, you know, and it's just staggering, right? Uh you know, so so knowledge velocity uh at the time of Christ, it takes a thousand years for uh the world's knowledge to to double, right? That's the rate at which knowledge doubles. By the 40s, we get to like a 23 uh space. Uh the early 2000s, you're you're talking about you know, a couple months. Um they recently did a thing, it it looks like it's about 12 hours at the moment that it takes for the the body of human knowledge to double. So, so you know if we see one another tomorrow, what humanity knows would have doubled by then. Wow. Um, so we can't keep up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and so seeing the rate at which things change gives me pause. At the same time, if you if you double click on how these things change, uh what excites me is there's an opportunity for the gospel in every single one of the ways that the world is changing. So I said I'm not very smart, so I had to take all these different conversations and boil it down to three things. And those three things is what the book is about, is basically the three ways the world is changing and how it impacts the gospel and how Christian leaders need to read. What's the name of the book? Hitting the ball you cannot see.
SPEAKER_03:I love it.
SPEAKER_02:So it's it's it's the analogy that, like in in baseball or in in cricket for the rest of the world, uh when a fastball comes your way, uh biologically, it's impossible to see it. It's impossible to hit it because it takes uh a 90 mile per hour fastball takes uh 425 milliseconds from leaving the pitcher's hand to when you need to hit it in the bat with the bat. But it takes you 600 milliseconds to see the ball, send the m message to your muscle and swing the bat. So you're 200 odd milliseconds short in that process. So how do you hit the ball? You anticipate, you don't see the ball. And essentially, with the world changing as quickly as it does, we need to learn to anticipate because we can't see it coming. But we've got to hit the ball where it isn't yet.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You know, there was an analogy given to me um early in my ministry, uh, and and and and I'm just reminded of it as you're sharing, that we were having some trouble in our congregation. Yeah, people were very unsettled, and I could not exactly figure out why. And like you were saying earlier, sometimes you're just too close to the scenario and need somebody to come in and and kind of give you a perspective that you didn't have. And so we hired a consultant. And one of the things he said to me, he gave me this analogy, he said, What's happening in your church is that change and acceptance of change is like a seesaw. So you you you make a change, and then usually if as a leader, you know you you've become accustomed to that change, but you have to give the congregation a chance to embrace it. Yeah. But what you've been doing is like you make a change, the congregation's just getting, and you make another, and another, and another, and you've broken the seesaw. Yeah. Wow. And I thought, wow, that that was really helpful. Paid a lot of money for that analogy.
SPEAKER_02:A lot of people have very broken seesaws.
SPEAKER_00:No, exactly. Wow. Yeah. And I and as you're talking, it makes me a little like, whoa. If if it if and that was back in the 90s, I guess. Yeah. So if things are accelerating in the culture uh at a speed and we're trying to keep up with that, wow.
SPEAKER_02:It's it it's crazy. It really is crazy. And it's it's on every level, you know. So so the three things, which I'm sure I hope you were wondering about. Um but but it is I I am. I'm just very curious. You were reason you were wondering if I was leaving it out that people need to buy the book. Um, but but essentially it's uh it's changes in the human experience, changes in the way things work, and changes in the way we connect. Now, this is the point where you go, uh that's pretty logical, but but it it's logical, but it's true. It's exactly the the changes. So there's six shifts, two under each of these that kind of make up the book. But to give an example of the broken seesaw, is we're in the greatest identity crisis in human history. Um there's never been a time in human history where humans has wondered this much about what it means to be human. See, because we we went through these evolutions, right? I survived, therefore I am, right? If you think right back to early days, then it became I I make, therefore I am, I make fire, therefore I am, right? I I can do things. And then it became well, I think, therefore I am. Uh and then we went to I feel, therefore I am, right? So the whole, you know, men can cry too thing. And but but then it came to the point where we said I create, therefore I am. So the the last identity evolution of humanity was this concept of uh influencers rule, right? So if you ask kids these days, what do you want to become? It isn't president, it's I want to be an influencer, yeah, right. So it's this creativity is the thing that that makes us who we are. The problem is all these things that I just mentioned has now been copied by AI. So what does that do to our identity, right? When when my creativity doesn't make me human and my ability to reason doesn't make me my empathy doesn't make me human. What then makes us human? And so we're going into a time where it's going to be less about sexual identity and more about human identity, um crisis in humanity. But at the same time, that gives me pause. But what excites me is the gospel has an answer to that. The gospel has an answer to that. So what an opportunity for us to remind people that they're they're they're not physical beings with a spiritual experience, they're spiritual beings with a physical experience. Yeah. Right? So our identity is firstly rooted in Christ. And so the metaphysical, the supernatural is is suddenly so big. And and what we're seeing in studies around the world of where you're seeing church growth and where you're seeing churches flourishing, it's where churches are reminding people of the spiritual identity. Because, you know, as one of the people I interviewed for the book said, is you know, AI can do all kinds of things that humans can do, but AI can't do what God can do. Right? And because we're of the God kind, because we're in the image of God, there's this opportunity that's being created by this global identity crisis for the gospel.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's interesting you mentioned that I just saw um a news report. There was this big, and you probably saw too, there was this big gathering in the UK, you know, UK first kind of thing. And Elon Musk uh spoke to that group, and one of the things he talked about, and I had a visceral reaction, I was kind of surprised by it. He said, the hope for our future is technology. And I found myself thinking, well, yeah, there are a lot of things that are going to be good because of technology, but it is not our hope for the future. It is, it comes back to what we've just been talking about, is like rooting our identity in something beyond the natural world. That's it. And that when we have it in Christ, we find meaning, purpose, a reason for living, and um it it gives us something sure to stand on, right?
SPEAKER_02:That's it.
SPEAKER_00:So good. And and it's and it's like it sounds obvious like you were saying, but it isn't. I mean, it's like we need that reminder because there's a lot of things shifting, and when a lot of things are shifting, you gotta find a place to put your your feet that are steady and stable.
SPEAKER_02:But but uh you're actually connecting a couple of dots for me in what you're saying, because we have this, you know, what does it mean? Definition of humanity is the first shift. The second shift is digital existence, right? So how we're uh seeing a second generation of digital natives. So there's a generation growing up, which will be the first generation in human history whose parents would know more about technology than them, right? So so it's no longer parents asking kids to help them with technology, it's now those kids that's grown up and they're they're educating their kids. So they're not just having digital natives as kids, they're digital natives as parents. So it's a second generation digital native. So you have this hyper-digitization, but then in this space, what's happening is is actually we're getting curated information, so individually curated information. When I open my news app, when you open your news app, we're getting two different websites. Yes, that's right. Right? So your social media feed, my social media feed, it's algorithm identified to me. Uh previous generation, the biggest challenge in the family was to get them all away from watching the same thing in front of the television to sitting around a table having a conversation. This generation wish they would all watch the same thing. They're all on their own devices, right? So what has happened is we've lost even these common spaces of engagement. And so now that's the human experience changing. Now the way the world organizes has changed. So now we've seen this inverse bell curve where uh seeing that watching the same news, watching the same movies, watching the same television has created a bell curve where the bulk of humanity is in the center and the few of humanity is on the edges, right? So so the people on the there's extremes, but most people are in the center of any issue. The problem is that bell curve has swapped upside down, right? So humanity was unifying, European Union, uh, United Nations, come together, come together, come together. Since Brexit, we've seen the opposite, right? So this protest case in point.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So technology has caused a society when the minimum is in the middle and most people are on the edges. Because why? Everybody's getting curated, everything around their preferences, around their likes, which reinforces whatever bent they have, it reinforces them and it pushes society aside. Yeah. So these shifts are one on the other. Yeah. And they're actually in that story you're telling, they all come together.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. So wow. Um, so when you when you think about your work right now and you know, providing leadership to this whole conversation, um, what what do you see as your primary role? What it what are you trying to like? It sounds to me like part of what you're doing is vocabularizing it, like giving people words to describe what they're like feeling and seeing. But is there another role that you kind of see yourself filling out?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think I I think we're um there's some people that are great first thought leaders, and I really admire them. Uh, they're visionaries, they have these ideas and people follow them. I'm not one of them. Uh, I'm a second thought leader. So so I find myself in the curator space um even more than I find myself in the creator space. So, you know, the you mentioned kind of vocabularizing things, but I think it's the best books we've re read are not the ones that tell us something new. Uh it's the ones that give us a narrative for what we already knew. Yeah. Right. So it gives us words because because words are uh if you've ever tried to deal with water without a container, it's very hard to do anything with it. Yeah. But but containers make water usable. Yeah. Yeah. And words makes life palatable, right? We can manage it, we can do something with it. So I think that's a big part of what I see God using me for, but but mostly I'm just a facilitator and a connector and and you know, being able to to uh facilitate the leadership that God has placed in others for me is the is the the greatest joy in leadership myself. Um so I obviously love communicating and and doing these things, but uh, but I really see that as uh a key part of my role is is who are the people that the world needs to hear right now and how can I build a platform for them um and set them up? Great, I love that.
SPEAKER_00:All right, can I can I go on a little more personal journey with you?
SPEAKER_02:Um so I mean yeah, I I I can't leave even if I try to.
SPEAKER_00:So, you know, I hear about all you're doing, and you know, you see, so you do a lot of traveling, you you're obviously very active at Shoreline, you teach, um, you have all kinds of leadership responsibilities there. You have a family and teenagers, and I'm like, how the heck does he hold it all together? And it's not just like from a schedule perspective, but I you know, we've had other conversations and I've watched how you lead, and and and I guess. The sense that you want to be the kind of person that is leading out of the overflow. Like I don't want to just kind of talk about things I've learned or known. I want my ministry to come from a full place where I've been connecting to God, God's been investing in me. And I know for myself, I've I've had seasons of my life that look a lot like what yours looks like. And sad to say that one of the things that kind of came was part of the cost of that was that I was not as attentive to that personal uh development, that personal connection to God. And I started paying a price for that with my family and my own work with uh with people, even. And and I found myself, you know, talking about things that I knew other people should be doing, but that I wasn't necessarily doing myself. And I I'm just curious how you've been able and are you able to balance all of that together?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, a couple thoughts. I think the the short answer, how have I been doing is poorly. Um, you know, because I think there's a lot of room for improvement. Um, and there always is, right? Is as we we we we the we've got to ruthlessly eliminate hurry from our lives, but it's it's hard, it's tough. Um I don't really believe in balance, and maybe that if I had a key, that would be it. Um because I I don't see many balanced figures in the Bible. I don't think Jesus was striving for balance. He he was so tired he couldn't keep his eyes open, he was totally given to things, um, but he wasn't hurried and he wasn't stressed and he was doing it right. I mean, look at biblical figures, you know. But who in the Bible lived a super balanced life? It's tough to find one, right? Because the reality is uh I don't think it's about balance, I think it's about priority. And for me, that is probably the number one key is success is obedience, and God is my priority, and obedience to God is my priority. Um, and sometimes being obedient to God means that I uh need to be absent from my family to be present to something God is giving me to do. Um, but sometimes obedience means saying no to the greatest opportunity ever to be present with my family. So it's not trying to balance, but it's trying to give priority to what God wants to do, not to my own ambition, not to opportunity. Um, and I think I think that's one of the keys. And then if it's priority and not balance, then you're able to compartmentalize and truly be present. Yeah. So what I've learned is um it's more damaging for family life for me to be everywhere all the time than for me to be not present and then truly present. Yeah, yeah. It's more dangerous for me to be somewhat present. Um so so I've really just prioritized that over the years. And you know, Karen, my wife, is a superstar, and you've had a her year, so I'm definitely the junior varsity team. But but but the the reality is just, you know, she's helped over the years, and and and we've had rhythms like like dinner time, right? So I'd be in different time zones, but but even you know, before video calling was a thing, is we'd have dinner around the family table, and I would just whatever time zone I'm in, I'll I'll try and prioritize that moment. So when the kids were small, dinner time, I'd be around the table on a video call with them if I was traveling. Yeah. So there was that stability of that moment of engagement and conversation, and they didn't have to, you know, have an awkward conversation with me. They could just have the normal dinner conversation that we'd always have around the table. Dad was just present on video sometimes and not in person. Um and then I think the other thing is just strategic neglect. We um we've got to get better at neglecting some things that aren't helpful. Uh, the reality is every one of us are given a certain amount of hours on this earth, and every moment we spend on something is a moment that we've spent. So we're attaching a price tag to our lives as we live. Um, and I think that's been continuously sobering to me is to ask that question is is this truly worth my time? Is this truly worth my investment? So um, you know, the family life thing has just been intentionality. I mean, I I when I travel, I'll I'll take the VR headset along. I've got teenage boys, so um, you know, to try and call them or text them, it's like, how's your day? Good. You know? Why? Because, you know, it's like it's impossible. But if I put on the VR and we're playing table tennis while I'm in another state, um they open up because we're doing something together. So so it's it's it has been being creative about it, being creative about time with Karin where we would just have certain rhythms in place. And then just, you know, that anchoring, overflow, time with God is I the travel seems glamorous. Anybody that hasn't done it thinks it's it this amazing glamorous life. Um I I do about a a hundred flights a year, so that's kind of what I've averaged the last three or four years, and and um it's brutal because you lose all sense of rhythm, you lose all sense of kind of this is normal, you you've got to but I've I've learned that something like time with God, if if first thing you do is spend time with God, and that's your rhythm in the day, it just keep those core anchoring rhythms, right? So so often that is on a plane where I've just woken up, but I'm woken up on a plane, and rather than going, okay, what movie am I gonna watch? I'm just going, no, this is my quiet time with God. Doesn't matter where I am, what I'm doing. So I think those things have been dying, but all these things that I've just said uh doesn't mean I'm doing it well. It just means I really want to do it better. Um, so yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh one of the things that you said that I I've been kind of reflecting a little bit on myself. I I saw a post and I kind of reflected on it in in a post myself, but the the new life you want is gonna cost you the old life you're used to. And and and you know, it's it's like a little cliche thing, but it's it is so true, you know, that there are things that God is gonna keep calling us to. And as a result of that, we're gonna have to let go of some things that have become familiar, that are comfortable, but are no longer strategic. And so being willing to say, okay, uh, like you were talking about, evaluating those priorities and saying, okay, is this really still something I need to be giving myself to? Or is it one of the things that has to fall by the wayside in order to stay faithful to my quiet time, to my family, and to the new priorities that God has placed on me? Um so that, yeah, I appreciate the affirmation because I think that's so true.
SPEAKER_02:And and and it's uh when we uh success is far more dangerous than failure. Because failure causes us to try something else. Success causes us to do what we did. And I think sometimes we're stuck in rhythms because it worked in the past. And success tests us in ways failure failure never will. So true. Right. So we've gotta we've gotta challenge past success and force ourselves to say just because it worked doesn't mean it's gonna work. Uh it's easy when we fail to try in a better way, right? Because we've got I've got to do something different. But it's when we succeed that we really struggle. And you asked me earlier about kind of shifting to the US. Is I I I think if you if you look at at one of the vices of the US culture, it's this uh assumption of success, this assumption of comfort, this assumption of living within your comfort zone. Um that we're okay, the world's okay, everything's gonna be okay because everything around me is okay. But the reality is it it isn't the case everywhere, and it's not necessarily gonna be the case just because it's been the case. Yeah. And so it's one of the one of the key things. I love it.
SPEAKER_00:All right, I want to give you the last word. Is there something else that's uh kind of on your heart in light of all the things we've talked about that you want to share before we close out?
SPEAKER_02:Just uh a privilege to be here. Thank you, uh Pete, for having these conversations. I think um you know, pe people there's this part in in Psalm 23 where it says uh he makes me lie down in green pastures, right? Um he makes me lie down by still waters and green pastures. But what we forget is the he makes us. And I I really think you have a unique ability to make people pause and reflect. And um, yeah, I'm just encouraged by what you're doing. So thank you for making people take a moment to lie down. Well, thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I appreciate it. And again, in light of your schedule, I'm grateful you made the time for this. And so thank you for being here. And thank you for joining us for uh this sidewalk conversation where we had an opportunity to kind of walk alongside Yuri in the adventure of his life. We will be noting his new book in the notes and encourage you to pick it up. I think that he shared enough to kind of pique our curiosity, and I think we might be uh helped by it, especially in the fast paced life that we're living. So thank you for joining us, and then join us next week when we have another sidewalk conversation.
