What If The Tip Of The Spear Is Not What You Think with Rodney Magallan

A candid journey from migrant fields to SEAL teams and CIA, framed by a simple code: be honest and be fair. We explore how elite performance runs on boring discipline, why family carries the heaviest cost, and how purpose survives after the uniform comes off.

• Early life shaped by work, community support, and scarce resources
• Enlisting at 17 and discovering the SEAL path
• BUD/S attrition, mindset, and the value of preparation
• Post‑9/11 CIA work and human stakes of freedom
• 7‑Eleven as a symbol of way of life
• Family sacrifice, stability, and the decision to come home
• Finding purpose after service through writing and mentorship
• Elite standards: discipline, accountability, preparation
• Personal code built on honesty and fairness
• Where to find Tip of the Spear and how to engage

Tip of the Spear is available anywhere books are sold online. Visit tipofthespearbook.com for links and more.

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Transcript

Opening On Courage And Values

Piet Van Waarde 0:00

Hey, thanks for joining us for another Sidewalk Conversations. My name is Pete Van Ward, and I am your host today, and we have another great guest that I am very much looking forward to having you meet. And to introduce our topic today, I want to come back to a famous quote from Winston Churchill. It's something that I've been thinking a lot about lately, especially as we enter a new year. It's about courage. And uh Winston Churchill uh called courage the first of human qualities because it is the quality which guarantees all others. Without courage, your other values are mere professions or obsessions that collapse under pressure. I thought, nah, that's that's good. That's worthy of thinking about for a bit. Because I think he's exactly right that when we have courage, there are so many other things that we can navigate in life. But without courage, everything becomes a pressure, everything becomes an uh a challenge. And so uh I have been encouraged by people who show that quality and have that as a centerpiece in their life. And my guest today, who I'm just getting to know, is someone who demonstrates that. So I'm excited about you meeting him and hearing a little bit about his life story.

Sponsor And Guest Introduction

Piet Van Waarde 1:39

I am grateful for Tenfold Counseling out of Kansas City, Missouri. Crystal Rodenbaugh is the uh entrepreneur and main counselor there at that facility. They have 10 counselors who have a focus on various elements of human life in the soul. And so if you find yourself in the position, maybe especially during the holidays, where you're finding I I could use somebody that I could talk to. I want to highly recommend uh Tenfold Counseling to you. They do things from afar as well as in person. So if you're in the Kansas City area, that would be a place to visit. Or you can check them out at line and uh we'll put the notes here down below. All right. Now let me give you an opportunity to meet our guest today, my friend Rodney. God bless you, Rodney. Thank you, Pete, and thanks for having me. I'm so glad you're here.

SPEAKER_01 2:29

It's fantastic. It was quick, but but uh I'm I'm very, very honored that you asked me to be on your show.

Piet Van Waarde 2:37

Yeah, so uh it's interesting. We we met through a friend of ours, a mutual friend. I had Amy on the program just a couple weeks ago, and she was telling me as we were preparing for our interview that, hey, there's this guy, you need to meet Rodney. He has this great book. And apparently the guys spent about two hours together getting to know each other, and you were so helpful. I said, Well, I heard a story. I was like, I gotta have him on. So thank you for coming. I appreciate it. Yes, sir. Absolutely. Now, you have done a lot of things in your life.

Childhood, Migrant Work, And Community Support

Piet Van Waarde 3:06

In fact, if somebody knows your story as a Navy SEAL and a CIA operative and all the things, they might assume that, you know, all of that came as an outgrowth of a, you know, strong, stable family who were cheering you on along the way. Uh, but as I got a chance to hear a bit about your story, it wasn't exactly that. It was actually quite different. And so before we get into all the things that you've done and and the ways in which you've been, in my view, very courageous, uh, you had to deal with some things at home that were really difficult. Do you want to talk a little bit about it?

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Sure. There was um there were seven of us kids and then our parents, so nine in the family. Wow. Um, six of us were boys, uh, one girl. And uh the girl, Melissa, she's my twin. She's my twin sister. Oh, okay. Yeah. She loves she's a school teacher now, over 30 years. Um, she loves telling people I'm the closest thing to a sister that she ever had, which I don't appreciate. She loves telling people that. Um, yeah, we were migrant workers growing up. Uh we lived in Washington State, and uh, it's not so much that uh that we had to be migrant workers. My my dad was charged with finding crews to work the fields. Okay. And so having seven kids, he he figured he's like, well, I got a little crew right here as well. He says, I'm gonna be here, might as well have them out here as well. And so we were. Um my four older brothers, uh, when we would go to Texas in the winter, they would work the cotton. Uh so the being a migrant worker uh is is not just hey, we work the fields here. It's like, no, we lift and shift, and uh that was life for a few years. Wow. Uh until my parents Easy work. Uh yeah, it it uh not really. You know, it it was it was interesting. It it was interesting because because when you when you have a big family like that, you you find ways to get under each other's nerves and the other ones are laughing. Yeah, and you start throwing cucumbers at each other or the slugs that you find on the cucumbers and they put it in my sister's hair as she's squeaming. All the things of of course, of course. It's like work, we're here to have fun. Um no, it it was work. And um, but when my parents split up, I I was 10, 10 or 11, then we we stopped leaving for the winter and we stayed there in Washington State. Yeah. And uh that's when uh uh we went on public assistance and uh for us three uh younger kids, four younger kids, my brother Randy was still at home. Um but uh learned at a young age, you know, you you you we gotta work, we gotta work to bring money in to to help uh pay for the bills. Yeah. Um so uh and when my father left, my my mother wasn't uh really too supportive as far as sports were concerned because she uh she just didn't see the value in them and and my dad really pushed it hard on my older brothers. Uh but I grew up in a small town, Grandview, like 8,000 people, Grandview, Washington, Farmville. And um, so uh if you had any kind of athletic ability, you were gonna make a sports team. Yeah, yeah. It was still when the schools were running the sports teams. And uh and I and I love the sports. I I I just did. Uh so um, although people would would think that uh I had a lot of support from home, um not necessarily my my uh parents, but I had a lot of support from the community, uh my friend's family, uh, and my friends. And and uh and I think that's that's what I found, what I needed. It wasn't so much that they were huggy-feely, but it was it was one of those, you know, hey, your actions will define you. Yeah. Uh no matter what the town is saying about you or your family or whatnot, your actions speak louder than words. Uh love that

Enlisting At 17 And Finding SEALs

SPEAKER_01 7:01

yeah.

Piet Van Waarde 7:01

And then that became the impetus for you to explore the military, right? Right right out of high school.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

Is that hundred percent, yeah. So the only thing my mom really supported me on was uh signing the waiver so I could join the Navy at age 17. She was very happy to get me out of the house. Uh by then my three older brothers or had already gone into the Marine Corps. Uh so it uh it it it's just again, not a lot of uh uh male figures giving us guidance and not a lot of military presence where I grew up. Uh so uh I I I don't want to ruin the story because it's it's in the book. Uh but uh I joined the Navy thinking I was gonna be a doctor. And that's not what happened.

Piet Van Waarde 7:45

No, you went a different direction.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

I did, yes, sir.

Piet Van Waarde 7:49

Absolutely about that. Where did you go? How'd you navigate Navy?

SPEAKER_01 7:53

So when I when I found out uh um that I wasn't gonna be a doctor, I uh I found out about this program, UDT SEALs, uh, and uh the extra pays that they they they received for jump pay, dive pay, special duty assignment pay, hazardous duty pay. Um as E1 joining the Navy at the lowest rank, you almost make what an E7 makes, their base pay with all those extra pays. And I was stuck for three years. Uh again, uh I don't want to tell too much of the story, but um, I I said I want to do that. And they're like, Do you know what you're doing? I said, I have no clue at all. But my mom needs the money, and uh I would keep 50 bucks for myself, and the rest went home to my mom. Okay, and uh, so that's why I volunteered uh to go to Buds. And this was uh 1986. Um I uh classed up with class 143, December of 1986, and uh to the tune of a lot of people um saying I wasn't gonna make it. I was 18, almost 19 years old, and uh and so I had folks that uh in my class that were classing up that felt like I didn't do my time in the fleet, so I shouldn't have been there. Uh and I wasn't gonna make it, so not wasn't well received. As young as I was, not just in age, but also in the Navy, yeah, um, they felt like I needed to pay my dues before I showed up to a program like that. Which again, you know, I'm bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, and I I I don't have a clue what they're talking about. I just know This is what I'm supposed to do. Yeah, I was supposed to they I got orders to show up here, and um I'm not gonna quit. Yeah. So as more and more of them would quit the program, uh, it just motivated me even more.

Piet Van Waarde 9:42

Um

Surviving BUD/S And Attrition Mindset

Piet Van Waarde 9:43

I mean, that's it's just the prep for that. I've I've heard different stories. I've even seen some things, clips from you know YouTube and such. I mean, that is tough training.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

It is, it is. It's it's so in back in in when I went through um, it's nothing like today how they have all this prep uh to get people ready. It was it was uh throw you in the deep end of the pool. Yeah, sink or swim. And um not saying that that's wrong or right or better. It was it was just different. Uh they they definitely uh have a better candidate going through uh today, uh, but we're still having a challenge getting the numbers. We're still having about an 85% attrition rate in the program. And uh and my theory is that uh we folks realize very quickly that that physically they could probably make it through the program, uh, but what you're signing up for is is a job that that's gonna be really hard and demanding and and it doesn't stop. Yeah, yeah, and and that's kind of what I write about in the book. Yeah. You know, if you want to be elite, if you if you're gonna join these elite groups, if you're gonna be that elite athlete or that elite performer, it takes hard work and sacrifice, and it doesn't get easier, it only gets harder, and it doesn't stop as long as you stay with part of that organization. Yeah.

Piet Van Waarde 11:09

Yeah. Uh so true, and and and and it has broad application, of course, you know, not just to the military, but to all of life, right? Correct. Yeah. Now you also uh like that Navy SEAL, you hear that, and it's like, okay, that's already pretty significant. Yeah. But then you also made a transition to the CIA.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

I did.

Piet Van Waarde 11:30

So talk about that.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah. So uh in 2000, my wife and I, we had our first child, our daughter Reagan, and um, so I left active duty and went into the reserves, and I was actually a deputy U.S. Marshal uh for the Southern District of Texas. Because again, it it's it was it was service and and it was uh it was do I still follow my dreams of becoming a doctor or do I use my hard skills that I learned uh in the last 14 years uh being a SEAL and being a tier one operator

Transition To CIA And Post‑9/11 Missions

SPEAKER_01 12:04

um and going into the federal law enforcement. Federal law enforcement, I was able to buy back my military time, so it just made sense and I could stay in the reserves. So I was a deputy U.S. Marshal of the Southern District of Texas, which is down in Corpus Christi, and uh 9-11 hit, and um so I kept asking when I was gonna get activated because I was in the reserves and nothing, nothing. And I get a call a month or two later, um, and I just asked them, do I get to go to Afghanistan? Because I know it's time to go to war. And they said yes. And I said, Send me the tickets. And it ended up being the CIA, and it was uh to become a GRS agent, uh, actual CIA employee, Blue Badger. And so from 2002 to 2005, I was a GRS agent for the CIA.

Piet Van Waarde 12:50

Wow. Yeah. Now, with all those experiences, I know it's probably really hard to summarize, but just to give um my audience a chance to hear a little bit about the experience, like, is there like one standout experience or the one thing that you kind of took away from all of that that kind of gives us a picture of what you did and and what why it mattered?

SPEAKER_01 13:12

Um yeah. So I mean, earlier early on uh at SEAL team four going to South and Central America fighting the war on drugs, uh you you really see that people are just trying to raise their family. They're caught up in a situation where um it's it's do this or or consequences, um, and uh they just they just want to raise their family. Um so it's it's not that the whole country or that the everyone is is our enemy, they're not. Yeah, uh, there's just some nefarious actors that are taking advantage of of some folks that are are truly good. Um then fast forward, and now I'm in the Middle East, and you start seeing those same good-hearted people, Afghans that are working with us, uh, to get a better life. Um one of the proudest moments, uh again, it's it's it's it's hard to see this, right? Because you're talking to a Navy SEAL, you're talking to an operator, you're talking to these guys, and it's like it's easy to hurt people. It is, it's easy to hurt people. Um But when you see that impact, when they opened up that school for girls, for women in Afghanistan, and just seeing the smiles on their faces, just have an opportunity to go to school and learn. Yeah, yeah. It it's it's seeing that impact. Um, you're you're you're like, wow, this is this is what it is. It's it's it's not about colonialism, it's not about we want to rape their resources. It's it is you have people in those countries that are asking for help. They don't want to live in tyranny. They they want uh they want a chance to have a better life, to just be educated and um and uh and not not be under someone's thumb.

Piet Van Waarde 15:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Um so seeing those things is uh is what really really brought joy um to uh to what we do and then and then when I'd come back from uh a trip, um my wife would pick me up and uh I'd have her take me to a 7-Eleven no matter what time it was. And uh she finally asked me one time after a trip. My average time back home was ten days, ten days and then out the door again when I was with the CIA. Ten days and then out the door again, ten days out the door again.

Human Stories From War And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_01 15:35

And it wasn't just Iraq and Afghanistan, it's it is a global war on terror. It was it was all over. And uh when she asked me why I wanted to go to 7-Eleven, I said, because you know what? This this is the epitome in my mind of our way of life. Where else can you find something open 24-7 to get a Slurpee or to get a hot dog? And 24-7. And that this is what I'm fighting for. I'm fighting for a way of light. I'm not fighting for ideology, I'm not fighting for for I want your piece of land or what is that? I we in I've been to 52 countries. And and until people go and travel that much and and they get denied their banana strawberry smoothie because it's not banana strawberry season when they're in Germany, then they're gonna start opening their eyes, like, oh my goodness. I get what he's saying. This is our way of life. We are so I don't want to say spoiled, uh, but we are.

Piet Van Waarde 16:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

We we we really are.

Piet Van Waarde 16:34

We're unaware for sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Yeah, yeah. And and uh and so I don't take it past that. Uh and I know other people may say, well, you gotta have nihilism. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I fight for my wife and my child's safety, my family's safety, my friend's safety, our way of life. I want them to be able to freely have conversations without the threat of being uh without any violence. Yeah. Um because like I said, it's easy to hurt someone. It it really is easy. It is. And and uh I have family uh from Washington State that that would bluntly ask me, how could I serve under that president? And I tell them straight up, I served under eight presidents, and it doesn't matter what their party was, because I took an oath and I served just as just with as much dedication and as much tenacity for every single one of those presidents, because that's the oath I took, because we should be able to disagree and not get violent. Yeah, that's what I fight for.

Piet Van Waarde 17:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:33

Well said, brother.

Piet Van Waarde 17:34

Well said. Um, okay, so that was awesome. I really appreciated that. Uh you you then kind of had to end your career because you know you're like navigating with your wife and family, like, okay, because you're you're like you're gone a lot. Yeah. And one of the things that you mentioned to me uh as we were getting ready for today is like you had you had this little negotiation with your wife, like, hey, I need to know from you when it's too much. And then there came that moment where she said, I I I think I think I need to be like have you how have you around more?

SPEAKER_01 18:08

You're being really nice to her. Um it wasn't much negotiation. She was holding all the cards. No, it it's uh she's right. And and it's part of what I write about in the book, Tip of the Spear, it's not what you think is the sacrifice. People think um this guy was a Navy SEAL, he's a CIA operative, he was a U.S. Marshal, he he did executive and private security, he, he, he, he sacrificed personally. No, my wife sacrificed, yeah, my kids sacrificed, my parents sacrificed, my friends sacrificed, my siblings, they all sacrificed. I countless birthdays missed, countless weddings missed, countless holidays missed, where Rodney's just a name. He's just someone we know, but we don't see him. Why? Because he's out doing what I'm asked to do. And so, so that's the sacrifice that people don't realize. Uh, our daughter before she turned 18 lived

Purpose, Oath, And Way Of Life

SPEAKER_01 19:05

in 11 different places. Wow. Just think about that. Just just lifting and shifting every two years or every three years, uh, not really getting any any friend base that you grow up with. Yeah. So when my wife said, hey, listen, here's here's the thing. I'm ready for some stability. I'm not leaving. I'm not moving. You stay in the Navy as long as you want, but I'm not moving anymore. And and I told her, I'm not leaving, I'm not gonna live without my family. It's it's uh no, it goes against why I'm serving. I'm serving for my family. I'll be darned if I if I'm gonna live without my family.

Piet Van Waarde 19:40

So now but that had to have created attention for you. Oh, because you you know, you've done all this training, you have all this experience, you have this passion, which we can all hear about through your through your uh story. And then to lay all that down, even though I can understand you say, like, I'm not doing this without my family. I totally get that. But that had to be a very difficult transition.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I say it in the book, and and it was you know, by this time I'm fifty-three years old. Okay. So remember, I became a SEAL at age 19, and now I'm 53. When this decision is I'm faced with this decision. And uh in the book, I I always I always put it to to a vote to the three people that I am. You know, Rodney the operator, Rodney the husband, and Rodney the dad. And the husband and the dad outvoted the operator. And and not only that, but but I also I also looked at it and and and yes, I was making some really good uh uh differences. I was I was making a positive change. Um but I also know because I've been in those organizations long enough that as soon as I leave, there's someone else who's gonna is gonna take my place. Um but there's no one who's gonna take my place as a husband and a dad uh that I would be happy with. Yeah. Right. So so those are so yes, challenging in the sense that uh that um the operator in me, the worker in me wanted to keep keep providing and keep serving. Um, but that's not fair to my wife, and it's not fair to my kids.

Piet Van Waarde 21:19

So uh when we talked on the phone, you you even used the word like I was really despondent. I'm I was on the verge of depression, you know, going through this season. I don't mean to expose you in that way, but you said that that actually became the impetus for writing your book.

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah, 100%. So so when I retired, uh in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, I'm gonna go and be an instructor or I'm gonna go do some contract work or or something. Yeah. Uh not uh nearly as as much as I was doing on active duty, but um but to go and do that. And um when and that was where the rub was with my wife

Family Sacrifice And The Breaking Point

SPEAKER_01 22:00

and and me was was uh you know, hey, you don't have to work. You you you have a retirement now where financially we're fine, um we don't have a lot of of of debt, so so you don't have to work. And this is what she's saying. She's telling me to to hang up my boots, and and I'm telling her my my boots are still good. They're not worn yet. Um and uh and it's just finding that purpose. And uh, you know, there was a little back and forth where she was misunderstanding me when I was saying what's my purpose. She was thinking, you know, what is my life at home? My life at home is fantastic. I love my wife very much, my kids are fantastic. We we're very loving family. It was I've been working since I can remember to all stop. And and that's what I was having a hard time articulating to her. It had nothing to do with with our relationship. It had everything to do with with, you know, besides me getting up in the morning and and making you laugh and giving you a kiss and a hug, what else am I gonna do for the country? Yeah. For my community, for right? Because that's what I was used to doing was serving and not just my family.

Piet Van Waarde 23:22

Yeah, and I think there's it like it goes uh I so identify with this because I'm kind of in a process similar to myself where I'm like I'm asking the question, um, I'm kind of like at the same stage of life as you are. Like, am I done? Does God have something else for me to do? What does that look like? And it's it's more than just providing for family. It's like living out the best you understand your purpose. Yeah. And for so many years it was about this serving in the military and serving the government and just like world stage. And now it sounded like uh, okay, I'm here. I want to be here. I love my wife, love my kids. What stirred the idea of a book? Like, how did that come to sure?

SPEAKER_01 24:10

So, so when I came to that realization that that it was I still wanted to help because towards the end of my career, now I'm a senior officer. Um, I'm older. Um, I did 16 years enlisted, so I I I understood the enlisted plight when they would come with their problems, even though they didn't think that I I knew what they were dealing with. Right? They just thought I I started, I joined the Navy late. It's like, nope, I was in your shoes at one time. Um and and that's what I felt was was gonna be the best way that I could keep serving is to write down my thoughts, to write down what I think uh helped me get through uh hard times, help me go from being on welfare, migrant worker, broken home to retiring as a senior officer,

Choosing Husband And Dad Over Operator

SPEAKER_01 25:06

a commander, Navy SEAL, and working at the CIA and other things. I I could I could there's no doubt in my mind, yeah, there's no doubt in my mind I could go find a job right now today. And but when I talk to the youth, they they it's it's so hard to find a job today. And it's like, well, you know, why is it so easy for me to find a job? And and so I put it down in the book. It's like, listen, people are gonna hire you based on your your reliability and how hard you work. Yeah, they don't necessarily need you to come with all the skills, but they need you to come with that loyalty for lack of a better word, that you're gonna show up on time and that you're gonna work the as hard as you can while you're there. Yeah, yeah. That's what organizations need. That's what everybody needs. I don't care what the company is. It uh it's showing up and clocking in and just breathing air uh is is not gonna cut it. It's you know, we have a say in earn your trident every day. Um, you know, that that goes to earn your paycheck every day, right? Is did you earn your money today? Yeah. You know, can you and it and there's layers to that because it isn't just what you give to that company, it's what you give to your soul as well. When you go home, you feel good about yourself. I I don't think I ever came home and and took any anger out on my family at all because I know that I did the best I could at work and now I'm gonna come home and do the best I can at home. Nice.

Piet Van Waarde 26:39

Now uh we have a copy of your book, and uh we're gonna put that in the notes too. Love the title, The Tip of the Spear. It's not what you think. So w what's the title about? Like give us a little overview.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah, so so the this book is uh it's it's really talking about what elite teams and elite personnel, what what keeps them effective

Losing Purpose And Writing The Book

SPEAKER_01 27:09

when when nobody's watching? Right? It's not ego, it's not bravado, it's it's uh it's the discipline. So much discipline that it's so boring that it doesn't get seen.

Piet Van Waarde 27:22

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

And and it and it's also about the accountability. Uh accountability that doesn't care about what your rank is or what your position is. And preparation. Preparation stacked so high that if there's any kind of pressure, it's hardly felt. And that's that's what the book is about. It's it's not a book about war stories, although I share stories to drive points home.

Piet Van Waarde 27:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

This book, this book is is a book on standards that I think that anyone can adapt.

Piet Van Waarde 27:51

And the tip of the spear, is there a specific symbol that you're trying to communicate there?

SPEAKER_01 27:56

So in Special Operations Command, SOCOM, they have a monthly uh magazine that goes out that's called Tip of the Spear. Okay. And tip of the spear is usually a military term, but to describe elite, the elite units, uh, the Marines, tip of the spear, right? Yeah. Uh designed to be the first point of contact, maximum point of pressure is at the tip of the spear, um, designed to to create chaos and and penetrate um i layers and layers and layers. But that's what the term tip of the spear means. It's describing elite people, elite groups. And so when I say it's not what you think, it's there's there's folks that that have this romantic uh I ideology of being a Navy SEAL, uh, but then when they start living the life, they're like, wow, this this is hard. Yeah. And uh this this really sucks. And and there's a reason why uh a lot of of us aren't married anymore. And uh because again, when you have a job that's that demanding, and you have a family that that that wants your attention and and and your efforts as well, something is gotta give. Right. Something has to give. And there's very few families that understand that. And and I was very fortunate to be married to my wife who who understood it. She understood me, and and she also felt comfortable in telling me when it was enough to throttle back and and uh and not keep uh being a ghost. Um you know it's it's uh folks don't don't understand when when when when I asked my wife to induce labor so I could be there to cut the cord for our son, and then two days later I'm out the door again to another war zone. Yeah you know, in me that's what the operator wants to do. And there's operators probably listening to this, is like, stop your whining. I'm not whining. But what I'm saying is no one thinks about what she had to go through. Yeah, what my wife had to go through is her husband coming back. Right? What's life look like? We just had our second child. Right. And I'm not worried about that. And why am I not worried about that? Because I know in our country, if anything happened to me, there is enough things in place to take care of her, but that's not what she wants. She wants me.

Piet Van Waarde 30:05

Yeah, right.

unknown 30:06

Yeah.

Piet Van Waarde 30:07

You know, I think you said so well earlier,

Elite Standards: Discipline, Accountability, Preparation

Piet Van Waarde 30:10

you know, uh, people can replace you at work, nobody can replace you at home. No, that's right. No, absolutely not. So, um, man, this has been such a great, great story. Uh, thank you for for being here. I do want to close with one one last question. Uh, and it may be hard to kind of summarize it in this way, but I'm really curious what you would say. Uh, given all that you've experienced and all that you've walked through, is there um like a code of life? Is there something that has become like this common thread for you that makes sense of your past, but also gives you some direction for your future that you could share?

SPEAKER_01 30:50

Yes, it's one of my one of my philosophies that's in the book, and I and I and I ask everyone at the end of the the book to to find their philosophies and understand what a philosophy is first, right? It's it's uh, you know, courage is not a philosophy.

Piet Van Waarde 31:03

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

All right. It's an attribute. And I agree with you. Everyone needs courage and understand that courage is not is is not in the absence of fear. It's okay to be scared. Yeah. Believe me, there's fear, fear was fine. It's it's being scared and having to do it anyways. Right. And doing it anyways. Um, but where's where's that courage when the only thing that's at risk is is someone making fun of you? We need more of that kind of courage. Yeah. When someone's gonna call me a name because I stand up for what I believe. We need more of that courage. Uh but my my what I think would serve the world well is to be honest and to be fair. And when I say honest and fair, I'm not just talking about to the people around you. I'm gonna be honest with you. Yeah, I may be misunderstood, but I'm not gonna lie to you. I'm gonna tell you this is how I understand things, and I'm gonna be honest. I'm also gonna be fair with you. If you got here first, I'm not gonna cut in front of you, right? If you gave me more money back than you should have, then I'm gonna give it back to you. I'm gonna be that's being fair and that's being honest. Yeah, but you also need to be honest and fair to yourself, right? I am this, no more, no less. This is me, and I'm gonna be this to the best of my ability. That's me being honest. Um, being honest and saying my family means more to me than me promoting to captain in the Navy. That's me being honest with myself, right? Because being in the Navy has an expiration date. It does. And although being a dad and and a husband may have an expiration date, it's gonna be a lot further out than my career in the Navy.

Piet Van Waarde 32:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

And that's that honesty and that fairness that I'm talking about, is being able to sit down and actually think about it. Yeah. Have that conversation with the three of you, me, myself, and I. And say, it's like, okay, you know what, what is what makes sense and uh, you know, and sitting down and talking with your significant other or with the children as well and saying, hey, if daddy does this, this is where it can lead. Do we want to risk that? Yeah. That's what being honest and fair is about.

Piet Van Waarde 33:16

Well, thank you, brother. Uh, if people are interested in looking uh at your book and getting a copy, where can they find it?

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Sure. It's uh anywhere books are sold, uh online. Yeah, it's not in bookstores. Uh um I self-published, so so I'm unknown.

The Real Tip Of The Spear

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Um I uh you can look me up on um tipofthespearbook.com. We don't sell anything there, but there's other podcasts and there's links to Amazon where they could buy the book. It's in uh hardback, it's in softcover, it's on digital, and it's also on audible, and uh I actually narrated it.

Piet Van Waarde 33:49

Ah, nice. Well done. Well done.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

Thank you.

Piet Van Waarde 33:52

Well, thank you so much for uh joining me today. Uh Rodney, it was so good to meet you. Thank you for your honesty and fairness here. Yes, sir. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Thank you, Pete. It's been a blast.

Piet Van Waarde 34:03

And thank you for joining us. We're so grateful that you've been a part of this. I hope you've been encouraged. I know I have been, and again, we will take uh the time to put some things down in the notes so you can pick up some of the material that Rodney talked about and learn more about what he's doing. So thank you for joining us and uh join us next week for another sidewalk conversation.