People Pleasing Origins: Unraveling Childhood and Cultural Influences

In this insightful episode of the Heal Your Roots Podcast, Kira Yakubov Ploshansky is joined by Gabrielle Larin, LMFT, to delve into the complex world of people-pleasing tendencies, their origins in childhood upbringing, and the cultural pressures that shape them. Gabrielle shares her expertise in working with clients who struggle with self-esteem issues and the compulsive need to prioritize others' needs, often at the expense of their own. Through a compassionate lens, they explore how these behaviors are rooted in early family dynamics, societal expectations placed on women, and the internalization of responsibility for others' emotions.

The conversation navigates the journey of personal growth, highlighting the importance of celebrating small successes, setting healthy boundaries, and practicing self-care. Kira and Gabrielle challenge listeners to distinguish between being "nice" and being genuinely kind, encouraging authenticity and vulnerability in relationships.

They provide practical advice on overcoming the discomfort associated with setting boundaries and communicating needs, ultimately advocating for a balanced approach to selflessness and self-preservation. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking to break free from the cycle of people-pleasing and embrace a more authentic, self-respecting way of living.

Check out the podcast page at https://bit.ly/hyrp-People-Pleasing-Origins

Transcript

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Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 0:00

Welcome back to Heal Your Roots Podcast. Today's guest is Gabrielle Larin Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and a therapist at Heal Your Roots Wellness. She shares her insights and approaches to helping people work through people pleasing tendencies, you're definitely going to want to hear today's episode. Welcome back to another episode of Heal Your Roots Podcast. I'm excited to have our guests she's back with us Gabrielle Larin. Gaby is a therapist at Heal Your Roots Wellness. Gaby, thank you so much for joining us again today. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Absolutely. So even though we had you on before, and you shared a lot more about your background, for first time listeners, can you share a little bit about yourself and who you work with? Sure. So I am a licensed marriage and family therapist and I work with individuals.

Gabrielle Larin: 1:15

And right now I am specializing with depression, anxiety, and I love working with self esteem.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 1:26

Awesome. I know you have especially right now, a lot of young adults, struggling with self esteem people pleasing tendencies. I, for the first time listeners, you're also Hispanic. So you have a lot of clients who also can relate to that as well if they're coming from a similar culture and background. So Gabby definitely has some limited openings. If anyone who hears after this episode was like, I have to work with her, you can reach out to us. But yeah, so I thought maybe we can kind of dive into the self esteem parks. I know, once we you know, we talk pretty frequently about you know, client cases and who you're seeing, and there's been a lot of themes coming up around people pleasing. So if you want to share a little bit about how that's been presenting, and how you work with that.

Gabrielle Larin: 2:13

Sure. So in terms of people pleasing, I have noticed that a lot of times people will let other people their opinions or their emotions, or they don't want to upset other people ahead of themselves. So they are more likely to think of pleasing someone else over themselves, they will sacrifice their own emotions over somebody else's.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 2:47

Yeah. And so for listeners out there, I am a recovering people pleaser. Still working through this. So this definitely hits home. But thinking about how you share like people pleasing for those who are listening is really just prioritizing other people and what they want, how they feel what they're looking for over our own needs, right. And maybe we can talk a little bit about how we think this develops in people, right? Because there's a lot of overlap between different personality types are traits and how we grew up and the way our family kind of raised us in the culture around that to develop these people pleasing tendencies. Have you noticed any themes with your clients, or just people in general that present this way that have similarities from when they were growing up?

Gabrielle Larin: 3:37

Yeah, I've seen a lot of environmental, so a lot of upbringing and how people were raised in the family. So a lot of times, it will be, you know, wanting to be that golden child, and wanting to make sure that they make the parents proud. Or it could be making sure that they're not failing their parents, because those are two different things. You want to make someone proud or you don't want to fail. And I've seen also a lot of sibling rivalry. That's a big one as well. A lot of competition in that, and I can definitely see a lot of upbringing issues.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 4:28

For sure. And I know, this wall this presents across all genders, right? I do see this a little bit more normalized, I think for girls or females, kind of thinking about like, the societal expectations, especially when we're growing up is like, Be polite. Be nice. Don't make anybody else around you feel uncomfortable. Be considerate, be agreeable, right? Like we hear these messages enough. While we're growing up that it's like okay, everyone else is free. feelings are really important. I can manage my own weight or they're not as important or I can put them last right? I have to make everyone else around me feel comfortable, because otherwise it's rude. Or it's inconsiderate. So I find that that comes up a lot with with women too.

Gabrielle Larin: 5:16

That's it's interesting that you say that because it's almost like men are supposed to be physically strong. And women are supposed to be emotionally strong. So they can handle things they can deal with difficult emotions. So it's almost like there's there's a saying in Spanish. You look prettier with your mouth closed. So yeah, so basically just don't say anything. And, you know, just be pretty impolite. And you know, just let whatever happened and not fight back or not be assertive or dominate a conversation.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 5:57

Yeah. Wow. How would you say that in Spanish? I'm just curious.

Gabrielle Larin: 6:02

I'm database my Juanita Comilla. Walk back at ya.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 6:09

prettier with your mouth shut. So messed up. But I felt like that message comes across, right? Like, your role should just be this look nice, look pretty be presentable and agreeable, and don't stir the pot don't create conflict. Right? Like being angry showing that aggression or assertiveness is not a good look, or that's not what you're supposed to do. Right? Hmm. And so I know a lot within my culture as well, Eastern European is that, you know, you do put everybody first and the woman is supposed to put their feelings last. And I'm also thinking about when you're saying like, with your parents, right, like this golden child or not wanting to fail, but also thinking about how everyone else presented in the house, right? Like, especially if you had parents who were easily emotionally triggered, or had anger issues or a temper, right? Like, you kind of like read the temperature of the room? Or at least I did growing up, right? Like, you would read the temperature of the room and you would like based off of how everyone else feels, would know like, okay, maybe I shouldn't talk this time. Or maybe I should be nice or maybe, right, like as a reaction versus just being who you are and everyone else dealing with their own stuff. So I think a lot of people pleasers also develop this ability to read other people's emotions and then respond to it.

Gabrielle Larin: 7:37

Yes, and I also have noticed speaking on that, that children, I would say and, you know, our generation, children have been more focused on making sure that the parents emotions are okay, kind of like checking in, like, oh, like Mommy doesn't like that you're making mommy sad. And then just like oil, or make mommy sad. So I have to regulate my own emotions before hers, you know, like, I have to help her be okay. So I have to make sure that I'm okay in order to help her. And, you know, it shouldn't be the opposite, where the parents are supposed to be the ones regulating their own emotions so that they can help a child.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 8:23

Yeah, so while this is not to bash parents, right, especially from older generations, you know, everyone is just trying to do their best based off of what they have been handed down and what they're capable of. Right. They act that way because their parents, but I think that now that we're a lot more aware of how our behavior and emotions impact each other, or I think our generation is a little bit more self aware and understands this and is more willing to work with emotions and acknowledge that they exist. Right? Like, I can't imagine how many times I've told my parents, they may have anxiety, like, that's not a real thing, like, okay, but you're exhibiting all the symptoms, but cool, okay. That we, as kids, we take on the responsibility of making sure our parents and our siblings feel okay, I think that's like the early, the early onset of like learning these tendencies. And now we go through adolescence, and now we're adults. And now we're in relationships with people where we sacrifice so much of what we want. And we're just doing things for other people that don't really align with who we are or morals or our values. And now we're just like in really unsatisfactory relationships.

Gabrielle Larin: 9:39

Right? And I think it's tough when it's kind of like you're digging your own hole. And then once you're in it, you're like, oh, wait, I have to get out of this. Because I'm realizing I'm not happy with where I'm at. I'm not happy with my relationship. I'm not happy with putting myself on the backburner. I want to put myself first and then because you've been in this pattern for so long, so much. more difficult to get yourself out of that pattern and to build a new pattern of putting yourself first. And it's it's difficult to know not only how to do that, but how to start and how to begin those steps in building that positive pattern. And

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 10:20

I find that I have a lot of clients who, when they come in, like they want to do that, right, like, I want to be more assertive, I want to do things that I want to do, I want to be able to say no. And then as soon as we start practicing, like, nevermind, I don't like it. I thought I could do this without upsetting everybody. Like, oh, that's kind of the point is that you're not going to be able to continue pleasing everybody. Because what you want is going to be different than what someone else wants. Because that's kind of just how it goes, we're not all the same. We don't always want the same things and you're going to inconvenience somebody or something might be considered inconsiderate, but you're really just putting yourself first, right?

Gabrielle Larin: 10:57

And there's a difference between making yourself feel uncomfortable for doing what is right for yourself. And I feel like, a lot of times people think that, Oh, if it makes me feel uncomfortable, it must not be right for me to do that. But you have to step out of your comfort zone, if you are so used to doing something that isn't right for you for so it's almost like your body is comfortable there, your body is comfortable doing things that are not right for you, it feels good. Because you know the outcome, you know what it's going to feel like, and unknown is so scary. So we don't want to make those changes, even if we know that it's going to have a positive outcome for us. So pretty scary to make those changes, even if we know that they're good for us. Yeah.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 11:55

And so how do you help people approach that, like, what is kind of like your, I mean, obviously, it's different for every person, but like, what's kind of like your general approach of like starting that process for people.

Gabrielle Larin: 12:06

Um, I will, I'm big on praising people. So I will find those small successes, a lot of times people think in order to feel good about yourself, you have to have this extravagant event that so successful. And it's like, you know, you got this huge promotion, or you know, you bought a house, things like that. And it doesn't have to be this extravagant win or game. It can be something as small or as simple as having a good day and not having a negative self thought. And that is a huge gain, that's a huge win. And we have to celebrate those small successes to be able to feel confident within ourselves that if we did this one small thing, we can continue to do those so that they can eventually become bigger gains

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 12:57

in the far future. So starting baby steps is having them even acknowledge that they're there little victories along the way.

Gabrielle Larin: 13:06

Yes. And I will remind people of those small successes along the way until they can remind themselves. So I'm big in praising and reminding people that there is good and every day there is within yourself. And you can see those positive things within yourself and those small and those small successes within yourself, I will remind you until you can see it yourself and then it becomes a little bit more natural for you to see it without me having to remind you

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 13:36

Okay, awesome. So building that up slowly but surely, because that definitely takes time and like compounding that that thought process as a normalized and regular thing. Right?

Gabrielle Larin: 13:47

Take some time to build it, but I'm patient.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 13:53

And, you know, part of that too. I like when I'm working with people with people pleasing tendencies is also what is the fear, right? Because I think there's a lot of fear and wanting to avoid certain emotions or certain things from happening, right. So like, like, the most common that I hear is not being liked. being seen as rude. Or if you're a woman as a bitch. I'm being left like people are gonna abandon me if I'm not like this anymore. And the last one, I'm having those three of the big ones Oh, and conflict, not wanting to feel or being engaged in conflict, right, like avoiding conflict at all costs. All of those things feel very, very uncomfortable in our bodies, and especially the about being abandoned, right, so conflict and being abandoned really, and how you're perceived. So we like to highlight that these are all the things we're prioritizing over our own happiness or self esteem or self respect, and having more genuine relationships. I just want to put it that way,

Gabrielle Larin: 15:02

head of yourself, because the exactly exactly what you're saying all of those things are putting other people ahead of yourself.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 15:10

Mm hmm. And so do you hear that too? Like when you're when you start, like digging and processing? Like, what is holding you back from doing these things and putting yourself first,

Gabrielle Larin: 15:20

right? And a lot of times it's a burden, how am I going to be a burden on other people? Am I it's almost like seeing yourself as being negative, as you put yourself first you are a negative, either that conflict or abandoned, something bad is going to happen if I am going to do this a lot of what is. So a lot of times I will say okay, well, you're thinking, what if something bad comes out of this? Help yourself, change that thought process by asking yourself, What if something good comes out of this, we can't control anything, we can only control what we're doing in that moment. And if we can control ourselves, not other people like to control what we're doing for the positive and the benefit of ourself, once we have our cup filled, then we can help fill someone else's. But until then, let's fill our cup first.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 16:16

I love that you mentioned this aspect of control. I think there's a lot of need for control and people pleasing, right? We think that it's like, oh, it's about other people. But really, a lot of what we're doing is to control the perception of what they have of us how we think the outcome is going to be how we're going to feel how they're going to respond, right? Like, it is really about control for because we know if we act this particular way, we'll be able to get this in return, this person will like us, this person will want to continue hanging out with us. They may think something positive me of me, right, they're not going to leave. So there's all of this extra work and thought and overthinking going into controlling a situation. And I think like the thought of someone releasing that it sounds horrifying, and it can be horrifying to

Gabrielle Larin: 17:09

Yeah, it is it is really scary. I also noticed a lot of times people with people pleasing tendencies want to stay in control, and Estacio like they are out of control. One thing that they can control is their reactions are their emotions based on somebody else. So they can control themselves around others, they can, you know, put others first and then they can control the outcome and the feel of the relationship and the communication and the connection with another person. And

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 17:46

I was listening to something earlier and this is gonna be an unpopular opinion. But the more I thought about on like, you know, this is kind of true, is that being nice? Right? Like people pleasing can kind of overlap with being nice, not kind, right? I feel like kindness and being nice or different. Nice is being polite, agreeable, just doing things. It's more self centered than kindness, right? Kindness is different because you are going out of your way to do something for somebody, regardless of how they perceive you or what you get from it. It is just a give. Being nice is doing something so that everyone else around you feels comfortable and sees you in a particular way and likes you and wants to come closer to you.

Gabrielle Larin: 18:31

I 100% agree with that. Nice is more on the outside. It's more surface level, where kindness is internal. It's who you are as a person where you want to be a genuine, genuinely kind person, because that's just how you are as a person nice is more like, Oh, I am so happy to see you. While on the inside. You're like I can't wait to run away from Irena. Notley different, I actually saw I that's funny that you said I saw something on the internet the other day that was like, nice is seeing somebody with a flat tire and saying, Oh, I'm so sorry that you have a flat tire. That's really unfortunate. Where kind is you pull over you stop your car, and you help them with their flat tire.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 19:26

And there's also so there's you mentioned something, right? Like, the way it presents outwardly versus what's going on inside, that there's this lack of congruence. See, right like, so you're actually not being yourself or what other people get to see of you is not actually who you are, or the authentic version of you. So I think a lot of times people pleasing, we want to be liked so bad, that we don't even give the other person the opportunity to actually like us because we're not doing things that we actually want to do. Right, so we ended up saying yes to a lot of things, we end up doing a lot of things acting a particular way. Because we think that's how we're supposed to be to be liked. But then really inside, we're feeling resentful, we might be passive aggressive, we might be really mad at somebody, but they'd have no clue that we feel that way. And now we're holding these grudges. And the other person doesn't even know, right, so this relationship, there's a gap of vulnerability and a real connection that we're actually really craving, or we're not even allowing,

Gabrielle Larin: 20:32

right, it's a mask, is you're putting on a mask to have other people feel a certain type of way about you. But meanwhile, as you said, you're not showing your authentic self. And that happens a lot where people will put on this mask thinking that someone else wants that mask, and then the other doesn't even like that. And they missed out on an opportunity to show who their authentic and genuine self is. And maybe that person would have liked that better. But they put on a mask thinking that that's who they are supposed to be, that's who they are going to be perceived as a better person.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 21:16

And so how do you help people start the process of embracing more of who they are, and like allowing other people to see that or saying no, or giving answers that are actually aligned with how they feel?

Gabrielle Larin: 21:29

It's tough. It's a, as we've been saying before, it's a slow and steady process, it's baby steps. And just like I was saying, Before, you know, when you catch yourself thinking a certain way, oh, maybe they think of me in this way. And then asking yourself, do I believe that to be true about myself? You know, somebody is thinking that somebody is thinking something negatively about them? Pause, notice that you're thinking that about the other person. And what they are perceiving and ask yourself is, is that how I perceive myself? Is that true? Most of the time, it's not. So it's just a gentle reminder, to say, it's not true about myself. And even if somebody else is thinking that way, I don't believe that about myself. And they probably don't also, it's just in my head that somebody is playing this little game in my head that's making me think that way, but it's not true.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 22:34

I think a big part of that also is like breaking this habit of assumptions. Right? We're like constantly assuming that if we do this, the other person is going to think and act this way. So allowing yourself like you're saying is having a different, like a moment of clarity, a moment of okay, what's another option? Like, maybe they will think that way, right? We don't actually know. But maybe they won't, maybe they'll be totally fine with it, maybe they won't even care, maybe they'll still love you just the way you are, even if you have a differing opinion, or want to do something else. And like leaning into that and allowing yourself to see what happens. And sitting in that discomfort of the unknown.

Gabrielle Larin: 23:19

And that's the tough part sitting in that discomfort of the unknown, because as the unknown is the most ultimate fear. So that's, that's really difficult, especially with people pleasing, because you're so terrified of the unknown of what if I don't, because I've never done this before. So it's feeling that comfort? feeling comfortable in the uncomfortable.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 23:45

Yeah, and that takes time, right? Like that's like, building the tolerance for the discomfort and like starting super, super small, like you were saying before, and like seeing what happens, right? Like, what if you just say no? or what have you start right? Like, let me think about it. Sometimes. It's really tough for people to go from I'll do whatever to No, you have, give yourself the option, right? Like, let me think about it. Let me get back to you. I'm not sure yet. Give yourself the option, see how that feels in your body, how that lands and see how the other person reacts, right? Like, as like a measure to see for yourself. If you can keep going.

Gabrielle Larin: 24:21

Yeah, take a step back and even just start by acknowledging that you're doing it. Because first is you can't change anything without understanding it. So you have to understand that that is what you're doing. You have to acknowledge what you're doing have to realize what you're doing so that you can notice it to see how you can change it because as we were saying before, everybody's different things work for different people. So people have to notice what they are thinking what's going on in their head. What am I feeling right now while this is happening? What is my body feeling? so that once they acknowledge and notice it within themselves, then they can start making changes towards progress.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 25:10

Yeah, that makes me think about like, just having that bring that awareness to know like, Okay, I'm saying this thing, but how do I actually feel the exam? Am I doing this again? Am I thinking one thing and wanting something and doing something different? Like how many times can you catch yourself? thinking and acting? Not incongruency, like incongruent, right? If you can even just start with that, right? Like, you might realize how many times you're doing this, and almost be shocked that like, Wow, all my decisions are a lot of my decisions are not actually what I want to be doing. Right.

Gabrielle Larin: 25:45

And it's, I love that you said that, because it's also I'll tell people to ask themselves questions while things are happening. It's important to acknowledge your emotions. That's kind of like the first step. Once you acknowledge the emotions, then ask yourself questions about what's happening. Am I happy with the choices that I made today? Am I happy with where I'm at today? Am I happy with how I've been feeling today? What I've been the decisions that have created my tomorrow. So asking yourself questions about yourself can help with your progress and your future. So

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 26:27

taking inventory, right, like not even just in the moment are reacting, but like pausing later and reflecting like a lot more reflection to I know, a big part of this is setting boundaries. I know that's like the other buzzword, right? setting boundaries is like almost gone too far at this point.

Gabrielle Larin: 26:49

I don't even know what it means really, at this point. That was like, No,

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 26:52

you can't do this. And that's it my therapist that I'm not know. What would be kind of your approach for setting healthy boundaries while taking into consideration, right? Like we are social beings in relationships. And like, we don't always need to set super rigid boundaries. But starting with something that feels comfortable,

Gabrielle Larin: 27:16

right. And I would even say how we were saying before, don't fill from an empty cup, make sure that your that your cup is full before you feel someone else's. Because of course, as you're saying, We can't be so rigid and just saying no, no, no, because then you're going to lean towards the opposite side of being more selfish. So we have to find that balance. And a lot of times people will actually struggle with finding that balance. Because if you're on one end of the spectrum of being completely selfless, and you are starting to inch towards the middle, you're going to think you're completely selfish, because it's such a drastic change of where you were before. So again, feeling comfortable within that, and how we can notice where that balance is, is. Don't, if you're going to say yes to someone else, make sure that you're not saying no to yourself. So you have to acknowledge that if you are okay, if you are mentally stable and comfortable with where you are, you're not just dropping everything for somebody else, you are able to say yes to somebody else, then say yes to that. But if you are going to say no to yourself first and your needs, then it's okay to say no to somebody else.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 28:41

I like that distinction, right? If we're gonna say yes, make sure it's not you're saying no to yourself. Yeah. And I think with time and practice, right, there can be exceptions. And we can be mandible, right? Like, because there's going to be times where, you know, we made a promise to somebody or we have a commitment, and we're no longer in the right headspace or it doesn't make sense anymore for us. So sometimes we're going to want to say no, right? Other times, we're going to want to sit okay, like, is this regular for this relationship? Like, is this normal for me to constantly be doing things and saying yes, or the other person is expecting me to drop everything for them? Or are they generally very respectful of my time, considerate of me, and I've made a commitment and I need to show up because I have to follow through what I say. I think that can be really tough, sometimes those gray areas, and I think that that comes later down the line, to feel more comfortable making those decisions, but like in the beginning, kind of focusing on the ones that are a little bit more clear. And make more sense in the beginning of like, clearly I'm not in the right headspace. If I don't go on this coffee date with my friend, nothing bad's gonna happen. I haven't canceled before I really don't feel well. I'm just gonna let them know I can't make it, right?

Gabrielle Larin: 30:01

It's all about balance. And in order to get that balance sometimes in the beginning, as you're saying, we have to be more selfish to understand that it's okay to put ourselves first, once we are comfortable with putting ourselves first, then we can find that balance of understanding that sometimes we won't be 100%. But we still can say yes to somebody else. So it's about finding that balance.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 30:28

And I think another big part is, when you were mentioning earlier, you're like, Oh, I feel like a burden. Or I feel like a bad person, right? If I do this, like to ask people like, well, if someone did that to you, would you be upset with them? No, I would never, I would totally understand, it'd be totally fine. I'm like, really? So why does the rule change for you? Why are you the only one that this is a burden, or you're a bad friend, or this is horrible? But you get to be considerate of everybody else's feeling? Why can't anybody else be considerate of you?

Gabrielle Larin: 31:04

Yep. I will tell somebody to ask themselves in those situations, you know, pretend that you are asking a friend instead of yourself. And a lot of times the answers will change somebody else then No, no, it's okay. Everything would be fine. If they did that, you know, I wouldn't care. Okay, well, maybe treat yourself as that friend.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 31:29

And to kind of go along with the this the self reflection that you mentioned earlier to like some tips for people with some practical things they can do. I remember when I was like, starting out with this, especially when I was going to therapy for myself and like, working through this process is kind of reflecting like, when I am thinking about someone calling me, right when like checking in with myself in my body, right? Like, if I get a phone call from somebody, and if I see this particular name, how do I feel? Do I feel like they feel drained? Do I feel like I don't want to pick it up? Do I feel like oh, I have to get ready for this call, right? Versus like, Oh, I'm excited to pick up this phone call where I'm excited to see this person, right, like, what comes up for you in your body before, during and after spending time or communicating with a particular person. If it is perpetually feeling like it's an obligation, like you don't feel great about it, you're left feeling kind of icky afterwards, thinking about what kind of boundary do I need to set then. And sometimes you don't always have to verbalize that boundary. Right? It could just be an internal one of, I'm not going to pick up the phone they call and that that you're allowed to do that. Right? Like, or I'm going to text them back, or I'll call them back at my leisure when I have more time. Or I'm not going to make plans with them as frequently. Right? Like really, when you're saying taking inventory is like checking in with yourself, like, how do you feel around particular people? before, during and after? And is there something different you can do or show up in a different way to maintain that relationship, if you want to maintain it? Or maybe part of this process, you realize, like, this relationship is really made out of obligation. And we don't necessarily want relationships like that. I mean, sometimes we will write if they're family members or, you know, work, like coworkers where like, there's going to be certain situations where like, yes, they're going to be in our life. But we can limit the amount of time we spend with them talking to them about what and how much they impact us.

Gabrielle Larin: 33:37

Right? I love that. Because you are acknowledging your feelings based off of the person and seeing the pattern, I'm very big on patterns. And if you know, one day you just don't feel like talking to them, that's fine. But it continuously becomes a pattern, then that's telling you something about how you're feeling based off of the other person's feelings towards you. So it's, it's about a relationship, you know, it goes back and forth. It's not just a one way. So I love that.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 34:12

Yeah, I think a big part of this too, is knowing that through this process, you may lose some relationships. And that's okay. And that's okay. Right. Like, I think it feels a lot scarier in the beginning. Because then we think, Well, I'm gonna lose all my friendships. I mean, it was all my relationships. But no, that's not true, right? Like it takes time to set these boundaries, feel out relationships, see if they make sense for you. But I think as you do this work, you recognize that like, some of these relationships, like even though they've already not been satisfying, you become less and less engaged in them because you start recognizing like, I'm not actually getting anything out of this friendship or this relationship, right? If I don't put in all the work, if I'm not the only one reaching out out were like bending over backwards. Doesn't really nothing's going on, like nothing's happening. I'm not gaining anything from this right? And like, like you said, if it's a one sided relationship, you have to really think about like, Is that worth my time and energy? When after I've been reflecting, have these other people in my life, that it's very reciprocal. I feel great afterwards. So like, shifting away a little bit is a natural part of this, too.

Gabrielle Larin: 35:27

Yeah. And I think that that's important to acknowledge as well, it's shifting away a little bit. Whereas a lot of times, people will think they just have to fully cut them off. And that's it, where you can still have that person in your life. You can you want them in your life, keep them in your life, as long as you are helping yourself through that making sure that you're okay through that you can distance them, you can put yourself at a distance, put them at a distance, and continue the relationship based off as your comfortability, where are you comfortable with that relationship? If it's, you know, over here, that's great. If it's closer, that's great. It's cutting them off completely. That's great. It it's about that balance. It's about finding what's right for you, not what is necessarily Constable, because you've been used to it for so long.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 36:20

Absolutely. Yeah. I think a big part of these two is also recognizing when you're internally like really mad at somebody, but they don't know. Right? Like, are you perpetually angry at somebody or annoyed with somebody or feeling passive aggressive towards somebody, right? Because I think a lot of times, we might be mad at someone because they didn't show up a particular way. Because we were expecting them to because we always do. Like, well, I'm always there for you, I always do this, I'm always willing to, you know, yadda yadda yadda. But this other person isn't a people pleaser. And they're not going to prioritize your feelings over theirs. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. But if your expectation is that and you don't share that with them, or you're angry with them, and they don't know, I think it's also checking in with yourself, like, are these realistic expectations? Like, am I just over giving? Or are they being rude? Right, there's a difference.

Gabrielle Larin: 37:20

That's a very important distinction. A lot of times people will say, You know what, if I'm doing that, then I should expect somebody else to do that in return. Everybody's different. Everybody reacts differently. Everybody loves differently, everybody connects differently, we're all different. And we want to give off in different ways than other people want to give off and take in different ways. So I've seen like, communicating that is so important, and being open with people in your life. Because if you do love this person, and the person loves you, then you should feel comfortable in terms of communicating what you want, and how you want to be supported. Because then you can develop a stronger bond with that person. Mm hmm.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 38:14

And that's a big part, right? That we, I think we've been dancing around, but not necessarily like identifying is communicating is a lot of this means you're going to have to communicate what you actually feel and want and expect. Or if you're upset by something, expressing that too.

Gabrielle Larin: 38:35

Right. And that's the tough part is vulnerability, being okay with being vulnerable. And a lot of times people don't want to feel vulnerable, because that vulnerability makes them feel like they can get hurt. And what we were saying before, you know, that people pleasing is the same fears of, or similar fears of feeling vulnerable, they don't want to feel like they should get abandoned, or they don't want to feel like there is going to be conflict within that vulnerability. So it's difficult to communicate your needs, and feel that vulnerability at the same time.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 39:19

Yeah, so communicating vulnerability, all these fun things that everyone comes to us for. It's all right, but it's also reminding people like these are baby steps. Like, no one's trying to rip the band aid off. This is a process like, no, and you're not gonna stick with it, right? If we just rip off a band aid and like, Go tell your best friend, you're sick of their shit. And you're right, like, no, we want to easy. I mean, eventually, yeah, you want to tell them but in a different way, you know, follow

Gabrielle Larin: 39:58

the baby steps first. That's it.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 40:02

Yeah. And I think a couple things that really helped me through this process that I've kind of relayed to clients too is, it's hard to trust somebody, when they're constantly people pleasing is also an unpopular opinion, right is, if you're not genuine with how you feel, and I know that you are scared to tell me how you feel, or to tell other people generally, if you're upset by something, I'm going to have a harder time trusting you when you tell me, oh, everything's fine. Because I don't believe you. Because I know that you're not likely to share if something's upsetting you. And I know that because that's how I used to be right, like, Oh, it's fine, it's fine. And like, you can't really build a lot of trust off of that when later you realize, no, it wasn't fine. And I wanted to know if I hurt you, and I gave you the opportunity, but you still didn't tell me for people to like recognize not to make them feel bad. But to realize, like, you know, it doesn't make you come off as trustworthy. If you're never upset by something when clearly you are, or clearly someone in this position would be. And

Gabrielle Larin: 41:09

that would be a perfect example of a baby step, if somebody is giving you that opportunity to share that, take them up on that. And, you know, you don't have to just unload everything, but share a little bit at a time so that you can release some of that pressure, you can release some of that within yourself. And it's going to feel very uncomfortable. But as we were saying before, you're going to feel uncomfortable, but it's right for you in the long run, you're going to have this release, and it's going to feel like a stronger connection with that person, once you're done. And you're going to feel better about yourself, because that confidence is slowly creeping up.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 41:50

Yeah, right. You can be like who I did the scary thing. It's not about the outcome or the result necessarily, because we can't control how someone's gonna react to it, we just cannot we have to release that. But I can be proud that I did a scary thing. It was uncomfortable, and I leaned into it. And that's a big deal. Exactly.

Gabrielle Larin: 42:09

And that is so important. A lot of times people will focus on the outcome. But it's so important to acknowledge that even if you're going to upset somebody else, you are making yourself better.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 42:23

And kind of like a final. A final note of this is to not take things so personally. Which I mean, was it much easier said than done, right. But I think when we recognize that, like everyone is kind of just trying to do their best based on like, their level of awareness and healing and understanding and you know, relational skills, everyone is in a different spot and have other things going on in their life that we really may not know about. So if someone acts a particular way, instead of immediately personalizing and saying, Oh, they must be mad at me, they must hate me, I must have done something wrong. Now, maybe there's just something else going on. And you know, maybe if they are upset with me, because I needed to do this thing for myself, like, okay, like releasing that control or releasing that need to be perceived a particular way. Like, I'm not going to take this personally, they're allowed to be upset with this behavior. It does not make me a bad person.

Gabrielle Larin: 43:29

And that's, that's very important. And also, it's not going to last forever. And if it does last forever, maybe that relationship isn't right for you.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 43:37

There you go. Feelings are temporary everybody.

Gabrielle Larin: 43:42

And they're a roller coaster, they will go up and down. And sometimes those you know negative emotions will come back and then once we process them, we'll learn how to deal with it again.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 43:56

So Gabby, is there any final final tips or notes for the listeners around this topic or anything you'd want to share with them?

Gabrielle Larin: 44:05

If you are struggling with people pleasing, and you want to start somewhere don't know if I'm like allowed to say this, but fuck everybody else.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 44:17

You want to say whatever you want. There's not a censored podcast.

Gabrielle Larin: 44:24

The first step is tell yourself like everybody else and put yourself first once you start feeling a little bit more comfortable with that, then you can start to get that balance and understanding. Okay, now I am more comfortable with that. And I can start to understand how to keep the balance of putting others first and putting myself first but first fuck everybody else.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 44:47

And then later, it's like okay, well, I can give a fuck about you and maybe you not so much over there.

Gabrielle Larin: 44:53

Find that balance afterwards.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 44:55

That's awesome. Gabby, thank you so much for being on with us today. I think this has been really helpful and insightful. I hope listeners really get a lot of information from this. If anyone wants to work with Gabby she has a limited availability you can definitely reach out to heal your roots wellness.com To schedule a consultation and work with her but Gabby thanks so much.

Gabrielle Larin: 45:16

Thank you I had a great time.

Kira Yakubov Ploshansky: 45:18

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