Listen to Nick Dean explore the balance between profit and purpose and the idea that if you set authentic values and have the right footing from the start, you will attract the right people and build a strong shared culture, which will ultimately see you succeed.
Nick is the Managing Director of ADLIB, a 100% employee-owned recruitment agency whose purpose goes far beyond recruitment. B Corp certified since 2019, ADLIB believes that an inclusive workplace will bring engagement, and create an environment of involvement, respect and collaboration, which ultimately drives more business value. ADLIB prides itself on being the trusted partner of its clients, as well as champions of Diversity and Inclusion.
Listen to Nick Dean explore the balance between profit and purpose and the idea that if you set authentic values and have the right footing from the start, you will attract the right people and build a strong shared culture, which will ultimately see you succeed.
Nick is the Managing Director of ADLIB, a 100% employee-owned recruitment agency whose purpose goes far beyond recruitment. B Corp certified since 2019, ADLIB believes that an inclusive workplace will bring engagement, and create an environment of involvement, respect and collaboration, which ultimately drives more business value. ADLIB prides itself on being the trusted partner of its clients, as well as champions of Diversity and Inclusion.
I'm your host, Yiuwin Tsang today. I'm delighted to be joined by Nick Dean. Nick is the managing director of ADLIB a hundred percent employee-owned recruitment agency whose purpose scores, far beyond recruitment, B Corp certified since 2019 ADLIB believes that an inclusive workplace will bring engagement and create an environment of involvement, respect, and collaboration, which ultimately drives more business. ADLIB prides itself on being the trusted partner of its clients, as well as champions of diversity and inclusion. Nick is also a B Corp ambassador supporting fellow B2B service providers on all things B Corp. Let's jump straight in. When we say supporting local communities as a business founder, what does that mean to you?
Nick Dean:So I think there's two sides to this in terms of pre pandemic and, and where we are now, because pre pandemic, I think it was very easy to look at a local community because you would have a natural network that's on your doorstep and you'd look at things that would resonate with that. By way of an example that we're involved in the moment is a project in Bristol called The Gap, which is the grassroots activation program, which is where we're supporting effectively through a paid sponsorship and through mentoring. We support one individual from a disadvantaged background, which at the moment is actually within no west. And it's about how we help prepare them for work. Now, although we're doing that, that might not be that they end up in anything related to us. They might end up in nursing or they might end up as a youth worker or whatever it might be. I think that's a good example of how we've got involved in something from a local community point of view, where we utilize the skills that we've got, on the finances that we've got. But coming back to that original point, I think the reason I referenced the start bit is is that the local side of it has actually almost fallen to the wayside a little bit. Because accessibility through zoom teams and so forth means actually your community is far bigger and has the potential to be far bigger than just something that is on your doorstep. And so those boundaries have changed a bit, I think, in how we consider what is local and what's not. And does there need to be a local community, necessarily poor for some areas?
Yiuwin Tsang:Oh, that's such an interesting point to raise Nick. You're absolutely right. There's technology and these kind of forced experiments that the pandemic has brought out has paradoxically made the world a bit smaller. The connections go beyond just that local community power. I think again, to your point, and the fact that you've done that work in nor west the local element or nor I feel. It's really interesting. What you and the team have Donna ad lib in the sense that it goes beyond just painting a room or, you know, doing a cake bake or whatever it might be for a local initiative. What do you think were the key drivers for your team in getting involved in GA in that case? What kind of P your interest, what was the decision making process for you and the team there to go for supporting that in.
Nick Dean:It's twofold, really. So one is that we give a pot of profit away each year to initiatives. And last year we did feeding Bristol. So it's totally unrelated to anything that we might be able to offer. Okay. We could go and volunteer and we could give the money. And that was very useful. And each year we go back into the team and say, what thoughts do we have around this year? So we quite often having people come to us saying, we know that you do this bears in mind, when you come around to come and do things, I think the difference is with the gap program is that so preta relates to another area we'll come to, which is the B Corp side of things. So on one side, you're giving the financial aspect of it as we would do with feeding Bri down, we still do support that. It's just that we now split it between these two areas. But the other thing is, is that you've got a very tangible impact. And that's the key bit that you're looking at is what's the impact on. It's worked twofold, really, if we can support this one person into work, but that's going through the mentorship in terms of sharing the knowledge that we have and that on top of giving the finances to do it as well, that actually then goes into their community and changes a wider community as well because they become a role model within the community. Cuz there is the pathway and this is the way that grassroots will present. It is the traditional pass route is it's basically a typical route of you'll either end up in prison, you'll end up on the dole. You will end up down these paths. Of course that's been generalistic, but that is the pattern and why they intervene to come and work through youth workers, try and pull out. So you're trying to break that system. And when you break the system for one and they become enrolled modeling community, So there was much more to it than just handing money over. And also it allowed people to, to utilize experience. So for example, the person that we were on board, which we get in August, so they might end up in nursing or youth work or something, basically they might end up in sales or marketing you don't know. So, there's a direct impact in there. And I think that's what the team really brought into.
Yiuwin Tsang:That's so cool. That's really inspiring as well. Looking at that, the compound effect of impact, not just on the impact on that individual and their circumstances. And I think what talk about speaks a lot to things like an equalization of opportunities. There's a even distribution of talent and capability, but there's a very even distribution of opportunity right. So it is really inspiring to hear the work that you're doing with gap. And what I came from that is. That individual, whilst the work and the investment and the commitment that comes from you and your team is focused on that one individual, the impact of that reaches far beyond just that one person. And it be just much broader kind impact across the community. And you mentioned a couple times about money, as well as, the kind of active involvement as well from a commercial perspective in that case, how do you make that balance between profit and purpose? I
Nick Dean:think it's quite a big one. And there's a number of ways of looking at it, which is, I mean, first of all, in our instance, just to explain briefly, so we've got Adlib, which is very established business. We've also got enable, which is much younger sister company, which is a recruitment company as well, but in different sectors, They're just starting on the journey we're talking about. So it's interesting. So from an Adlib perspective, you could look at it and go, well, it's very well established. We know the profitability. It's very easy to go. Okay, well, we'll give that money because what's impacting and it's readily available would enable that the funds on there, but what we're actually doing is building the same model within them. So their financial side of it is of a greater value in terms of how they're gonna pull that out and actually utilize. But at the same time, they can see all of the good that comes from it, that it will help build a better business from the outset, which I explained. So I think in terms of the money side of it, I think first of all, if you're completely shareholder driven, it's not gonna work. Cuz it has to come from an authentic place. If you're of a mindset where you're like, I wanna do good. I wanna do good. I wanna do good, but actually everyone's gonna need to do it in their own time. Then you're kind of going well, you're not really doing it for you. You know, you're asking people to do stuff on their own back, but take that within the business and make it appear like it is within the business. There has to be an angle as, or an element of stuff, which we keep coming back to, which is the word authentic. So when you consider it as B Corp, does, which is that you're looking at how you utilize business as a force for good, we believe. And I think it's proven as well, that if you build the right values, And the right metrics by which that you want your team to operate around. So whether that's giving kind of volunteer time or matching charitable donations, it doesn't have to be a lot. That's the key thing. You don't have to change the world, but you have to have the right footing by which you can afford by which Ferguson then build on it. You will attract the employees that want to be in an environment like that. And in doing. You will then build a shared culture where it's not people climbing over, share this back to be successful and it will. And so it spirals into it. And also, it's that big believer that good will breed good. When we did B Corp, we did B Corp for us. It was a byproduct that actually we get contacted by loads of purpose driven businesses now going, I know who you are, I know what you want, and we want to give you business. And that was the last thing that we did it for. The byproduct was that that happened. Because you know that your values are aligned. Now, if the metric wasn't there in terms of how you are assessed and that's so B, if we weren't B Corp and it was just with purpose driven, whatever, I don't think you have the same footing cuz you have to justify yourself. Whereas B Corp justifies us. So again, there's so much win along the way that it breeds good business. And when it breeds good business, it works for everybody. You've got a solid team. You've got solid clients. It all just kind of falls together, but you have to be committed and you have to be authentic the minute that you start trying to do it for PR for the wrong reasons. It's not gonna come across as you need to.
Yiuwin Tsang:And you say the word authentic a few times. And I think now's probably good to have just to delve a little bit deeper into that. Cause I feel like some of the conversations we've had and talk to other founders is that it feels like there's, I'd like to say that there's always an intent there. I think generally people look good and they want to do good in the world. But I think that there's always this kind of equilibrium though. They have to hit in terms of come back to that profit and that purpose. But if we just strip that back for a second, when we talk about this kind of authenticity part, it feels like from what you're saying, if you are authentic about this and if the change is deeply rooted in the place that that really is meaningful, then that there's that balance between profit and purpose actually become a bit clearer in your mind. Does it become easier to kind of put those numbers together? Is speaking from experience, I guess from the time and the journey that been on without.
Nick Dean:I think it's all about how you put that into context of, like you say, you don't have to change the world overnight. And as long as you are making an impact, it's a positive step forward. So for example, like in enable, we are looking at their kind of B, C at the moment. And so the team within that are saying, we want to do something, but we don't know what it is. Well, look, there's very quick wins in terms of how you can put an infrastructure within the business with good governance, which sets you off on the right. and good governance counts for a lot. So I think what you've also got to remember as well is that we are in, as I would describe it quite a privileged. Working culture and environments. So, you know, minimum wage holidays, all these things. Now, when you look at things on a global basis, there's child labor, there's farmers right there, it is very privileged work environment. We work in. So what we are doing is we start on a great platform from where we are and we're looking to improve it all the way through. So very simply, a business can look at their policies and ensure that there's inclusion there's equality. There is all of not just the basic rights, but actually very, very accessible rights people, which mean that they know where they are and they stand as human beings and that they have an input into the business that might sound quite basic, but to actually an employee, it means a lot when they know that the business is focused on that. So from your people and your HR point of view , your reviews, these don't sound like they're making an impact, but they do because they give you the founding part of your business and the governance, like I say, When you take it into say that community aspect, which you're talking about, like we're talking to enable the other day. And we're like, and this is a great example of where they found something that was authentic. So what they're doing, so they specialize in sales, HR, finance, and operations recruitment. So we take the sales bit and they're going right now. There are masses and masses of sales jobs, which are unfilled and we're going fine. They've got some really, really great clients. And a lot of those clients are purpose driven as well. Enablers going through its B journey as well. And because the Adlib system company thing, it kind of cross pollutes and something that I identified within the team is, and this sounds now when I say this, I can hear, it sounds quite advanced and that's the benefit I think because we've got the shared knowledge within the business. The actual endpoint, isn't huge, but you can see where the opportunity is. What it came down to is, is other communities within Bristol, where there isn't a natural career way to fill some of these entry level sales roles where people will build a career because it would be expected that they would say go into retail or hospitality and an example, which was given really well. This is an organization in Bristol called the engine shed, which has a StarTalk incubator within it. And, uh, the head of engine shed said to. Not long ago, which is where this spark of an idea came from. Is that within the Somalian community in Bristol, it's a lot of refugee. The refugee community is one of the most entrepreneurial that there is because, and obviously very topical at the moment, but. Because you have to stand on your own two feet, you have to find money, you have to survive, you have to do it. And an entrepreneur will do all those things, obviously in a very different concept, but it's, you don't fail you can't I now. And actually you will, but you will do everything that you can to fight and fight and fight to get that business working the same as a refugee might do from one country to another and do the same. But the mentality comes with it is that there's an incredible opportunity there for an employee. And what enabled you started to think about, well, is there a link to community. Where young people would exist that are coming through education. That would then traditionally either end up in no employment or could end up in hospitality, retail. But if we could bring them into say software sales environment, where we know we've got the businesses that will train them and we can give them that career path through, that's starting to create an impact, but they said, but let's make it realistic. If we can help four people a year, one a quarter into that as our starting point is that enough? And the answer is, is it's more than. Because you have to get in, you have to understand, you're not there just to fix a problem. You're there to actually then start to build something and understand, and then create the pathway. And if the pathway remains as that, you, you support that community for four times a year, that community is gonna be immensely happy. for what you've achieved and you are gonna achieved what you set out for as well. And if that's what you can balance in the business in your day, it's a fair balance. So a long winded story, but you can see from a small starting point. It comes back to that impact and impact. Doesn't have to be 300 people. It's overtaken the business model. It can be, it is a tangible thing by which it will develop as our business continues to grow and more people become involved and the four people will become Aus the team doubles and da, da, da. So, yeah, but it's, it's about having that starting point, but the genuine bit was it's an absolute desire to achieve this and we can see there's a path through to where we can add value.
Yiuwin Tsang:Again, lovely, lovely story. And Sam's absolutely incredible as well. So we did some project work with the local NHS, and we talked about how first was a great example of the city, which is really, really, really diverse, but still relatively segregated in terms of different communities, feedback, culturally or societally. And the Somali community came up a couple times, um, actually in some of these projects, because they've been handy, harder to reach, um, there's some big cultural differences that need to kind of. By the sounds of things. And to your point about taking on refugees, the life experience that they have, some of the traits or some of the skills that they demonstrate, these survival instincts it's a fabulous match. Isn't it? In terms of, in the world of recruitment. Some of these skills and traits and behaviors, which are really, which can be really hard to train in my son's old school teacher used to say, he can be really indignant. He can be really hotheaded about certain things. He could be combated and argumented about certain stuff. But as a teacher, he was very positive about this. And he said, you know, these are the types of skills, which you can't stick on you. And, you know, these are types skills that serve well in life. But that point about being able to train these sorts of big in, it's not that naturally apparent some of these other communities, which are overlooked just to explore a little bit more on the enable side of things. How did you facilitate that discussion? Because it sounds like it was born from this collaborative thinking across the team and it fits in so nicely with the, with the ethos of the business itself, the call of the business itself in terms of finding brilliant candidates for roles, people who can fulfill and exceed and succeed in these world. So they kind of ticked a lot of boxes. I'm just really curious to find out. How did you, how did you facilitate that discussion with the team and how did you bring that idea to life with the people in there?
Nick Dean:I think it's fortunate because we've gone through it with dad lib. So when you go into ad lib through cliche keeps coming back to B Corp, but effectively what happens with B Corp is when we have new starters, I'll do a session with them a couple of weeks in and basically present be court to them because I think people step into it and are, are like, what do I do? And my answer is is you don't do anything. You just care about people and you care about the planet. And after that, it's up to you. Whether you want to do something more with it, because there's a platform there to utilize it, but come in, be in the business, get to see it, feel it and feel your way. So what's happened in Adlib is that as an example, we had somebody called Sophie join us a couple of years ago. She tech recruitment working mom saw lots of issues there and she came to us and said, Had the B caught conversation three months in she's like, right, I've got my head around this. She said, I feel very passionate about, so she wasn't trying to find anything, but she just sat down with us and said, look, I see that there is an issue for working moms in the tax sector around gender, pay up around lack of leadership around how you go on maternity, leave, you lose your tax skills. You can't get back in cetera, et cetera. And she said to me, we could do an event series where we can get people that are overcoming this to talk. And we were like, that's all great. But B Corp will look at what impact are we creating? So let's take it to a different level. So, so B Corp looks at it and goes, it's great if you're talking to people and it's great, if you knowledge and we'll give you a pat on the back, but there isn't a formal recognition for that, because what you're not doing is saying we achieved X. Like we can say we spoke to a hundred people and now go, that's brilliant, but did those a hundred people do anything? And if you can't do it, and again, you're not proving anything. So what we did then, and this will come back to your answer, but it's, we sat there and said, well, we need to make it tangible, cuz you've got a great challenge here. So. We then developed that into, as a business charter called motherboard. A motherboard is a charter that goes to the businesses physically sign up for there's a fear of between one and 300 quid, depending on the business side, which is purely administrative and B to get an element of commitment, outsiders, their written words. And what they do is they physically make five pledges, which they're gonna achieve within their business within the next 12 months. And that could be, you know, depending on where they are in their journey, it could be that they say we're gonna do a gender pay gap review. By the end of the year, we're gonna look at increasing female representation. We're gonna engage with coding clubs, whatever they might be, but they set those out. And then at the end of the year, same as we do with B Corp, they actually have to report back to us on what they've achieved and then set their goals for the next year. And we pull together an impact report, which talks about everything that's been done by all the businesses that the moment's about 15 on it's only been going for just every year it's but proven really. Successful now with that, a, the thing is, is that we go back to B Corp and we say, we've now got 400 working months within this group of companies that are all achieving XY Z, and the companies are improving their lives and all that, but with Sophie. So if you recognize that there with a platform there by which to promote it. So again, when you come back to what we do as an organization, we have a very big social reach. We work within technology. We have a big client base. So we're not looking at, going, can you spend two hours of your week on this, Sophie? We're just like, do what you want. Because again, it breeds good business. The business is like, yeah, you can actually help me find the right people that I want and you understand my challenges where I'm coming at and deserve. And so they just naturally end up as allies in the right space. The platform was there. So when it comes back to enable, I was able to share that example and say, look, here is an example where when you look at the business platform, the audience, we have all of these things and what it needs to achieve from the impact point of view. This is what we're looking at is only when that group started talking. Well, what matters to me? What are the challenges in the industry? How do we fulfill those challenges, which is eight there's too many jobs. B there's not enough people. And I was to say, B Corp would look at is how do you fulfill? And I'd had the conversation with Marty engine shared. So I'm like actually there is a group, a community group, which I'm aware of that could fulfill that. It all connects. So I feel we're in an advantageous point where I can help facilitate that, but then, that's just experience within it and. I think that's where there are people like if we're focusing around B Corp, which is a good, good area, there are B leaders. And there's loads of information where you can go and find this stuff out, but you need to become involved in it again, that authenticity, but you're not just dangling it on the side. And when you look for it, it's not hard to find things is just building that hospital. Like you say, local community around how you support each other to get to where you wanna get.
Yiuwin Tsang:That's absolutely brilliant. One question I got, and you talked with such knowledge and such passion as well, Nick, about this, and we keep going back to authenticity as well. And what I'm hearing is, is from a leadership perspective, you do have to lead from the front. You do need to put, as you say, it can't be like a side thing. It can't be like a virtue signal thing either. It has to be authentic. It has to come from the right place. What was your journey with this as well? Cause I think I first came across it years ago. You place me into my first proper. Was there like a tipping point. What was for you personally shifting this and being this catalyst for change for these initiatives coming through, where did it come from for you? Yes, I know I keep coming back to B Corp, but it holds you accountable. So that's the bit that , other than just being taught within the business. So we had a situation within a week where we'd done this. Would've been 2019. We did an employee survey engagement survey, which. Tell us what you think of the business, all that kind of stuff. And somebody within that had said, we do lots of good things. And at that stage, it was primarily working with helping young people with their career paths. I was also with a client that week as well that said, oh, we're gonna start considering B cor supplies. So supply first. So I was like, oh, twice in the week, I'm gonna be looking into this. And then there we go. So the interesting thing for us was, and in answer to your question was, is when we went through that first certification, I had absolutely. Idea at all, whether we would even get close to certifying, if you're a new business going into B core, poor, a similar certification, it's nice and easy because you build the business around it, which is a good thing to do.
Nick Dean:Like there's a really positive thing to do a lot of businesses that are retro fitting. It is very complex because you are changing ways and means, and systems and trying to integrate things which haven't existed and not everyone's necessarily on board with it. Whereas again, if you're building stay like an enabled, they're building it from the ground up, it will be with the business for life. Whereas with AdLab it's had to go back retrospectively. So when I went through it actually, because of the work that we'd been doing and the transparency. I know the one thing you get to see with some of my B Corp is, and again, you come back to your shareholder models. It gets quite complex, but it goes into your articles of association on company's house, which basically say, you just serve a shareholder. That is it. That's why you exist as a business. They have to get their return put really crudely. And there's an organization at the moment, which is spun out to be called the better business act, which is fighting to change that, which essentially is looking to make it law to say that you don't serve your shareholders. You serve your stakeholders and your shareholders and, and whilst that's terminology, it's about how that reflects back into the business because your stakeholders are your employees. It is the planet, it is all these things. And that you should report on that because if you have to report on it annually, it's gonna make you aware it's gonna make you accountable and all these things at the moment, there's no accountability on it other than did my shareholder get their money. So you can see when these things start coming together. There's a lot of components to it, but a lot of it does just come down to good governance, like transparency. I could go on ages on it. And I mean, this is one of the big things around the transparency I found, which is if you are a major shareholder what's really difficult or can be really difficult is when you are asking for profit, there will be a degree of. What's happening with that profit in this, I think the world's changed. It used to be, and there is a large degree of, I think, balance because investor takes a risk shareholder, takes a risk. We know it's like the weight of the business is on your shoulders through good, bad, whatever it might be. So yes, there needs to be a valued return on that, but not at the detriment of everyone else to break them, to get to where it is. And that's where the balance comes in. And if you look after the other. The profitability should take care of itself for all the reasons that we touched on early doors as well. So it's quite complex once you get into it, but it comes back to that good governance. And we had really strong governance underneath it all. Cause we were very transparent. It did lead us to go into him a hundred percent employee owned cause it amongst anything, it was the right time. But it also overcame this issue of this is what we're asking for. We're asking for this much money every week and this is the metrics by which we do it at which point now we're saying, this is what we need every week. The benefit of doing that is that everyone benefits and everybody's a bit more like, yeah.
Yiuwin Tsang:And it sounds so inclusive as well. I'll be really interested to know what this, and I'll explore it a little bit later in our chat as well, but I imagine there has been incredible upside in terms of employee engagement with that employee attraction retention as well. You mentioned that right at the beginning of this was an employee engagement survey that you did, which kind sparked this two things in the week thing as well. I'd be fascinated to know, what has the participation in these impact projects and purpose driven projects and initiatives had. Employee retention, employee engagement and also employee satisfaction in their own kind of enjoyment. That being part of blah, part of enable,
Nick Dean:Between the two businesses, there's 47 people. It's going through this transition. So enable look at ADLI and go, great. There's loads. We wanna mirror there so they can see, they go very different stage where they can go. Right. I can see where it's coming in and we do have shared services. So for example, at the moment we're hiring a people manager, they work across the boat to get the infrastructure coming in. So there's loads that taking, which is really good on the ADLI side. It's a really interesting one. So from the engagement point of view, we're fortunate in that we've now got through going through the employee ownership. We've effectively got an infinite business model, which is really interesting. So in our worlds in recruitment, people are getting like, they are in most areas, they're getting targeted all day, every day. And they probably are getting targeted with increased salaries and different bonus schemes and lots of things. So there has to be something very tangible for them to be over. Why am I saying, and one of the big things within is because you're in that infinite business model. It's like, you're looking at it now and you can see the future board. You can see like every five years there will be change. There will be an MD that MD will move on. We all have a lifespan that it's a fact and people in the business can see that. And so it's not a scale to sell, which a lot of businesses are. And therefore, a lot of employees are quite often looking at it going, okay, we're driving profitability. What points it gonna sell? And where's that gonna leave me? And in our world, that would be well, go and set up on your own or join a competi. All very, very easy options to do. And it is quite easy to set up on your own. It's not easy to run business as such, but it's easy to set and home with a laptop and recruit. But the difference within where we are is, is that because you've got, there's an employee council, there's a trust board, there's a distribution of profits. People look going, well, like I say, there's people that identified now that been the business for a few, like literally a few months and you're going, they've got all the makings of the MD in that 10 year cycle. And they know that early doors. And they're looking at it in their peer group, cuz again, I'm very far removed from the people that sit that have joined recently. There isn't a social environment that I'm involved in, but it's very social for them and they wanna know why they're gonna be involved and why they're gonna stay together and what they're gonna do and what they're building. So they're effectively the business. Now I am not really the business anymore. My bit is almost like gone and now I'm imparting it and that's what you can do. So it's a really interesting one because you're just constantly looking at where does it go? It should be around a hundred of years in theory. That's hard to walk away from or harder to walk away from.
Yiuwin Tsang:I think this is it. And it comes back to that piece around. And I think it goes beyond ownership, which I know fundamentally is what it comes down to with the skin that you have in place there. But I feel like it's more a. It's been part of it. It's been one of the team in a properly meaningful way, their destinies in their hands. They can help shape and create. They contribute in a meaningful way beyond picking up the phones and signing deals or things like this. So more meaningful purpose to them being. In the team, part of the team, part of the business that goes beyond the transactional nature of businesses as well. And that I think brings us right way back to purpose values conversation as well. I just wanna ask you, what advice would you give to business leaders who are looking at ways to support their local communities? And, and I wonder whether or not there's anything that you learned from your experience working with gap and with the other initiatives in Bristol that you could share with listeners.
Nick Dean:I mean, I think there's two easy route of time and money. They don't have to be a. If there's a connection to your organization, don't necessarily just try and find random things, so very simply Paul we're recruitment. If we can help people with careers that haven't got career pathways, there's an easy route to get in there and share the knowledge. So it's logical and you can find it. You don't have to give a lot. You might only give two hours a month, but to somebody that will create an impact and off you go, and if you can spend two hours a month or two hours every quarter to a group of 15 people, again, it makes a big impact. People need money, charities need money. And there are lots which will benefit hugely from it. It doesn't have to be if your business is really, really tight and on the red line and it shouldn't be doing it, then it's not the necessarily the right thing to do. Your time is valuable and the time will help and encourage it. So it's not just give money and do that. But if this focus is purely on the profit line and I'll probably speak quite openly on this. So the pandemic here and after businesses obviously suffered. Off the back of it though, there was businesses and there still are businesses which are absolutely flying. And I think within that, it's just looking at that and going, you know what? We can do something or are we just milking this? And if you think it's like, let's just milk this, then you're probably not, it shouldn't be something you're considering, but if it is, you know what, it was tough, but we are absolutely flying off the back of this. Get a team involved, ask them, do something. It will all help somebody somewhere. And they're just simple starting points, but the team will want to get involved. And that's the key bit is I would say, go to the team and say, oh, we're doing this. This is what we've decided to do at a board level. Cause they'll be like, yeah, nice one. But if you go, so for example, what we do is we do a poly and we're just like to every charity or idea you've got in. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna go to a team vote. We wanna know what the project is, what the project will achieve, goes to a team vote. And then the team decide on a unanimous decision and then the majority behind it. Well, fundamentally everyone is gonna be behind it. Cause we know that's where the bulk of business went, but it never is decided by the board or management. It comes from within the team. Thank you so much, Nick, from ad lib, it was a real pleasure getting to speak with you and finding out about all the things that you're doing at ad lib and the way that you've engaged your team in such a meaningful way.