How to nurture high-performing teams with a culture of trust with Cathy Moseley, The Kernel at Boundless Activated Snacking

Working with a team you love can seem like an impossible feat for many entrepreneurs, but not for Cathy Moseley. Her authentic leadership style has allowed her to create such strong connections with her team that she would go as far as offering up one of her kidneys if needed! During the second part of our interview with Boundless Activated Snacking's CEO, we uncover why having purpose and shared values is vital in building successful teams - something all startups should look at embracing.

'I love our mission. I love our business and passion breeds passion. Energy breeds it. And if people believe and have the same mindset as you, they get swept up with you as well. And I think that's how you build a really good team from start, you know, and from small acorns, oak trees grow.'

Cathy founded Boundless Activated Snacking in 2017 after she left a job as a commodities trader in the city in search of a new adventure.

Running a busy street food stall, she regularly turned to snacks to keep her fuelled throughout the working day, but being gluten intolerant, she struggled to find anything that wasn't either full of rubbish or that just tasted rubbish. That's when the idea for Boundless was born. She started investigating snacks that would keep her fuller for longer, look after the gut, and most importantly, taste good. She spent months cooking up a storm in her kitchen until she perfected her Boundless activated nuts and seeds range. Boundless is on a mission to make snacking easy, creating tasty, healthy products that are genuinely good for the gut. They take great ingredients and make them better using the art of activation to fully release all the nutrients and enable better digestion.

Boundless Activated Snacking can be found in more than 3000 stores across the UK and 10 international markets, including Germany, Belgium, and Asia. In the last 12 months alone, the online business has seen in excess of 4000% growth, maintaining its spot as Amazon's Choice for good health snacks.

Transcript

Yiuwin Tsang: 0:00

Hello and welcome to this week's edition of the Beautiful Business Podcast. I'm Yiuwin Tsang part of the Beautiful Business Team, and this week I had the pleasure of getting to chat with the incredible Cathy Mosley. Cathy founded Boundless Activated Snacking in 2017 after she left a job as a commodities trader in the city in search of a new adventure. Running a busy street food stall, she regularly turned to snacks to keep her fuelled throughout the working day, but being gluten intolerant, she struggled to find anything that wasn't either full of rubbish or that just tasted rubbish, and that's when the idea for Boundless was born. She started investigating snacks that would keep her fuller for longer, look after the gut, and most importantly, taste good. She spent months cooking up a storm in a kitchen until she perfected her range of boundless activated nuts and seeds. Boundless is on a mission to make snacking easy, creating tasty, healthy products that are genuinely good to the gut. They take great ingredients and make them better using the art of activation to fully release all the nutrients and enable better digestion. Boundless activated snacking can be found in more than 3000 stores across the UK, as well as 10 international markets, including Germany, Belgium, and Asia. In the last 12 months alone, the online business has seen an in excess of 4000% growth, maintaining its spot as Amazon's choice for good health snacks. So you can certainly say Cathy knows what she's doing when it comes to running a Beautiful Business. I hope you enjoy the interview. This one's about getting people on the bus and why building a team is more than just a numbers game. And we know that it is, but I know that from conversations we've had previously, and just hearing you talk about your team at Boundless, your eyes light up. So tell us about the team. Tell us about the setup, what was your first hire and did you have like a people strategy when you went about building it.

Cathy Moseley: 1:42

For me team is everything, okay. You're nothing without your team. And if you think you are, then you are gonna make a real massive mistake. Okay. Cause I wouldn't be talking here with you. Yiuwin if it wasn't for my team. They literally are like my right arm, my left arm, my legs, my brain, everything. I love and adore my team, literally. I really mean that I'd probably give one of them a kidney if they needed it, you know, I absolutely love them. So, they're great. So in terms of strategy for team all I had in my mind about strategy for team was hire people that have your values, you know, that have your values, and that was my thing. So it was whether they were gonna be Head of Sales or whether they're gonna be kind of like on logistics or whatever they're gonna do, the bottom line is if they don't have your values, the purpose of the business, the values of the business, all of that stuff, then doesn't matter how great and smart they are. They're not gonna fit. And I think that is key, cuz I think attracting good people is about having the purpose that everyone believes in because it is hard in a startup. It is, you are gonna run faster, work harder than you have ever, ever worked in your entire life. Anyone ever thinks like, oh, I know I'll start my own business. It'll be so much more flexible. Forget that, that's absolute rubbish. And everyone now really needs to know that, but that's why you do it, cuz you are passionate about it. And you've got all of that. So you need a team that's gonna run with you, that believes in that also that's willing to give up Sunday and spend Sunday night with you going, oh my God. You know, and we have this thing at work that we always say. Do Unilever have this problem, you know, course they don't. Well, yeah, maybe they do, but on a bigger scale, and I think for me that was the real thing about hire good people in terms of then, they will be good if they've got your values. And then of course the role that they've got. Sure. They know how to do it, but it's about them, you know, because that's what you do. You're building a family in a startup, you know, we are bonded, we know each other so well, we're gonna have to get on and you're gonna, because you spend. All your time at work, so you're gonna need to get on. So that was in my mind and I've always been big about team. I don't think I've ever worked anywhere previously to starting Boundless without being in team. I love team. I think you're so much better in a team. Even Bill Gates, I'm sure would say he's better for a team, So I think that's the word for me. And then, for my, first hire, well, I suppose again, I roped in a friend, right? So this was the best way. Isn't it? Do you know what I mean? Cause you kind of like one, you can tell 'em but right. I've got this great idea. You can come and work with me cuz my friend Talia who joined me at the start and she worked in food and she'd worked for supermarkets and things. So she obviously had a background of understanding, you know, what I was trying to achieve. Whereas I didn't have any in that, in food service or anything like food industry. And what you do with a friend is you say, right, got this idea, got its thing, gonna do this and this that would you like to come and help me, join me. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, by the way, I'm not gonna pay you of course. Right. Cause we've got no money and all the money we're gonna spend is gonna be like trying to get the brand and the product and your fresh production and all that stuff, but you are gonna love it. And she said, yes. She said yes, because once she knows I'm absolutely nuts. Anyway, so she thought otherwise, I was gonna be so tenacious and bug her every single day until she said yes. So she couldn't stand the thought. I was probably gonna call her every 10 minutes going, have you changed your mind yet? Have you changed your mind yet? That kind of stuff. So she said yes, but she, she said yes for several reasons. And the point about what we just talked about a minute ago is she said, yes, because she's a team player. And she said, yes, because she's understood the purpose and she has the right values and she said, yes, cuz she thought maybe it was a good idea, you know, so, it goes back to that. So she was my first hire unpaid. So technically she's my first hire. But and then like from there, you, I think you organically grow in a startup. I roped in another few friends as well. I roped in a friend, that's an accountant. So I said, yeah, Chris, do you wanna come and do a bit of this? He was like, well, what do you want me to do? I mean, yeah, just do the accounts and just, you know, help me with that. Again. Not paying you cause we are good friends. Right. So, but I think energy breeds energy. Right. And you know, I've got some great friends and I'm really lucky. Okay. It's about, I suppose and I don't wanna sound like being egotistical here. It's about, because I love what Boundless can offer. I love our mission. I love our business and passion breeds, passion, energy, breeds it. And if people believe and have the same mindset as you, they get swept up with you as well. And I think that's how you build a really good team from start, you know, and from small acorns oak trees grow, I guess.

Yiuwin Tsang: 6:59

It's that whole thing about having something which is greater than sum of its parts. And I think the vibe that I get from you is that you brought these people in, there's obviously this hygiene level in terms of what their capabilities are, technical capabilities, perhaps, Talia who has that experience in supermarkets, FMCGs, and, the buyer's markets and stuff like this, Chris with the accountancy skills and, and the financial kind of kudos. So from a skills, hygiene level, that's kind of it. But everything that you talked about is about that cultural alignment people that share the same values as you, people that, you know, have similar sorts of beliefs as you and it's and it's, and it's interesting, isn't it? Cause that energy, it's almost like it, it unlocks this extra level of, I don't wanna say effort. That sounds like it's too much hard work because it's like, I'm sure you you're proponent of this, but when you really enjoy what you do it doesn't feel like work, is it?, but in order for that to happen, then you need to have the right kind of people in the room, the right people on the bus.

Cathy Moseley: 7:53

Exactly. And I think the point is to your point about the bus is no one wants to get on the bus, do they, with the boring person that gets on and drives you around the bus again and there on the left hand side is St. Paul's cathedral. You want the person on there going right, come on, get on this bus. This is fun. You know? Oh my God, did you know about St Paul's Cathedral, you know, You're on it. You like, this is great. This is hilarious, and then you would've taken all the factual information in, on that tour of London, but you, would've just sponged it rather than like, oh, what did they say about Westminster Abbey? What was that? You know, because you're like, oh, dreary boring,

Yiuwin Tsang: 8:30

I know we're gonna talk about leadership in a bit, but it does come back to that, doesn't it. It's about I suppose your role as much as any, one of the multiple roles that you wear, when you're running a business is around living the values, living the purpose, amplifying that across and out of view so that your team then picks upon it and almost kind of reaffirms to them as well. Doesn't it? Cause as we all know, when you're run a business, there are highs, there are lows and it's somebody said to me, it's easy to lead when things are going well, it's when things are tough and I think having that baseline, having that support of aligned values is what can really kind of pull you through. Isn't it?

Cathy Moseley: 9:03

It is. And I think, yeah, you're totally right. But I think, is the fact that also is, like you said, a moment ago, Yiuwin, is the fact that you also need to have those people with the expertise because when you start, you are an ameoba in a massive ocean and you are literally trying to find your head, your spinning plates all over the place and one of the first things, no matter what business you are doing is you've gotta have a grip on that finance. You're gonna have to understand where you go and you've got to have somebody, especially, if you don't come from that background, you've got to have someone that understands the mechanism of how that industry works, and then you build on that and your idea and everything else and you are the one that understands about the vision and, you know, you've done the research. I mean, research as a whole, I would say that is your top priority in terms of setting up any kind of business and as you know, bringing on the right people that will also help do that because you need to know your market, no matter what you are doing. And certainly, what we do in snacking, you gotta absolutely understand that market where you fit, you know, all of these kind of factors, because what else is on the shelf? What do you wanna take off the shelf to put you on the shelf? You know, because that's what a, buyer's gonna tell you. There's only X amount of space. What am I getting off to put you on, what better purpose do you offer? What's your benefit above this? So research from that point of view, but also having a team that fit into roles that are fundamental to a startup finance, you know, understanding the mechanics of that industry and the idea. You can build from that, but if you don't have that, I think you'll be quite lost in most industries.

Yiuwin Tsang: 10:52

I think that's right. You do need those skill sets and I think you touched upon it briefly there about having complimentary skillsets as well. I love that phrase that you become an average of the people around you. I often mash those two sayings together. You become an average of the people around you and if you are the cleverest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And that's very much it and, and getting people who are better than you are things...

Cathy Moseley: 11:11

yeah. I'm quite big about like, not having egos. We have a policy at Boundless, no egos allowed, and it's really important that you say, I dunno what that means. What does that mean? Then? I can't do that bit. Right. Okay. Can you do that bit, right. Okay. I can do this bit, you know, but then that also leads back to people having the same thought process as you, not thinking, I think like a few weeks ago we had a trade show I'm supposed to be in charge. I always say that I'm supposed to be, it really belongs to the team, but I was supposed to be in charge, but I'm driving the van to the trade show because I can drive the van. I can do that. Why wouldn't I? It's making sure that you've got round pegs in round holes, you know, and not trying to put 'em in squares, have to be honest about yourself and honest about everybody else in the team. What's weaknesses and what's strengths and especially because when you start a business, you don't have a lot, you're not certainly gonna walk into Coca-Cola's head office and say, right, I've got a massive office, got a hundred people. They're gonna do everything for me. It just doesn't work like that.

Yiuwin Tsang: 12:09

No, indeed and if anything, the different challenges come up then really, when you've got that number of people with smaller teams, you know, when you're like 10 employee size or whatever might be there's nowhere really to hide. So I love the fact that you drive the van. We used to have this thing when we worked in events. No egos, as you say, but everybody packs up the chairs at the end, you know, it's stuff like that, you know, and everybody, and it's having that culture of teamwork.

Cathy Moseley: 12:31

But also proves to your team, you are with the team.

Yiuwin Tsang: 12:33

Yes.

Cathy Moseley: 12:34

Not suddenly like I'm off now. You can all do that. Yeah. There's no hierarchy. We haven't got time for that and neither should you. And then that's, if you're building a family and you're building a team and you're building that purpose, then if you start to create this kind of corporate structure within that, then I think you lose the essence of what you're trying to achieve.

Yiuwin Tsang: 12:51

I think so. And it sucks the fun out of it as well. When your team and your culture is set up in such a way that the individuals goal isn't about self-promotion, it's about helping those around them. And then everybody is doing this and everybody's got each other's backs. And I think there's a proper pseudo teams, which is where basically they're sat in the same room, but they're basically thinking, what do I need to do and make sure I keep my job ahead of everybody else. Whereas, you know, when the shifts over and you get into the psyche where it's like... what can I do to help other people on my team be their best...

Cathy Moseley: 13:21

that's powerful. And I think like you was talking about the pseudo teams and stuff like that. I think that's old corporate, you know, that's not the purple cow way of thinking. If you're gonna stand out, this is innovation, this is change, this is the way people can work remotely. This is the way, you know, you don't have to go into work in a suit and tie and all of those kind of stuff, this is the new way of working. And I think if you are a startup in this world, you've gotta be thinking, that's the new way of working. You've gotta work together collectively. We are better than we are one.

Yiuwin Tsang: 13:55

It plays a big part into how you attract and retain staff as well. Because you know, the fact of the matter is, is one of the biggest challenges I think, faced. Many business owners across the UK is the war for talent, horrible way of putting it. But, certainly generations that are coming through the context of work has shifted so much and no such thing as a job for life, you know? And I think from surveys, remuneration, it's still important, but it's not the most important thing.

Cathy Moseley: 14:21

I mean, of course, you have to be realistic. People have to pay their bills and let's face it. They're all going up. They are entitled to that, they are entitled to have a certain standard of life in the sense, because they're working in that way. And they've, nine times out of 10 people've studied hard to get what they've got or whatever they've done they've tried to take the opportunities that they've been offered and therefore you absolutely have, you know, respect for that. we have a thing that we do is the living wage. So we are a member of the Living Wage Society. And I wouldn't think about ever paying anyone, just minimum pay. It's gotta be right. You've gotta respect your staff. You know, we also have a share option program at Boundless, which is something I wanted from get go that every member of staff can work to having shares within the business, skin in the game whatsoever, you know, and I think it's really important and rightly so that it's not just what they're individually doing, it's the whole team working, I think. Yeah, of course remuneration is really important, but I think you are right. I think it's about the quality of your day and that needs to be top level when you work in any kind of small business now, because you'll spend a lot of time doing it. I think that's really, really important. Yeah. I couldn't agree more with you. Yiuwin Tsang: When we first little bit, and I mentioned this whole concept of nurturing teams. And again, your face lit up when we said this, cuz I think you said it's that concept of nurturing, not just training them or upskilling them, but that whole concept of nurturing, what does it mean to you and how do you try and nurture your team at Boundless? I always talk to you about being a family and things like that, and I think, you know, on, on a practical scale, I have one-to-ones all the time, I think it's really important to not just talk one to one on a business point of view as well. One-to-one about them. How you doing? How you getting on? How was last night we went out with, so, and so what happened with your aunt last week? You said this, you know, that kind of stuff. And I think that's, that's really important that people get to feel that they can talk about them in a business as well. So, you know, from a practical point of doing that, but also for me, it's about listening to them. Do you know what I mean, in that nurture, you know, nurturing their ideas, allowing their ideas to come out. We work on a really collaborative basis at Boundless and I think that is a guide of nurturing. It's allowing those thoughts, those things to be heard, try them. Let's give it a go. Sounds like a great idea. Let's try it. Why not? If it's thought out and we are thinking,'yeah.' It's not like, 'No, it's my way.' That's not nurturing anybody. That's not allowing them to grow, to be better. And I think that's one of the points of also maintaining your team, you know, because if someone feels stifled and they feel they're not listened to and they feel, they're just plodding and everything else, then, good people will leave because they'll want more, they'll need more. And rightly so. So I think that's a really important point. I think also flexibility in the sense of understanding their life needs, I think is really important. I mean, I came from a real corporate structure before I started Boundless. You know, I worked in the city and I was a commodity trader, sold myself to the devil clearly while I've had an epiphany and I changed my whole life. But you know, where I sat in the office at six o'clock in the morning and left at eight o'clock at night, you know, and took a Blackberry, God that shows how old I am, took a Blackberry home with me that slept on my pillow that I'd be called from, Hong Kong or New York, whatever it may be all through the night. And you never allow people to be nurtured in that way of their own life, so understanding someone's gotta go and pick their kids up. You go and get your kids, you'll do the work. It's not a problem. Let's just keep the right balance, you know, and something's come up today in my personal life, can I go off and do it? Yeah, yeah, of course. You'll you'll do the work and I think that also a great way of nurturing. I mean, I can't remember who the psychologist is, but you know, there's that factor of the four day week, you can do five days work in four days and we don't necessarily have a four day week at Boundless, but what we do have is flexibility within your working week. We have set times that we'll say, right, we're gonna get on zoom at 10, or we're gonna be in the office on a Monday or whatever it is and everyone sticks around that unless something emergency comes up, but outside of that, you're doing the job. You're doing whatever you need to do. You've got your goals, your targets and everything else. Then if you need to be away. Then you go. But I think it's comes back to that original point we talked about is the honesty you have between each other, you know? So no one feels they've got to lie, they're probably all laughing about me now, aren't they probably go, she don't know we're down the beach 24 7, but it's the fact that no one needs to lie about where they need to be or where they need to go. And I think that goes back to the honest work, which goes back to of core value of Boundless so it's a core value of Boundless in product, but it's a core Boundless value as us as a team. And I think those are one of the greatest ways to nurture. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'm constantly learning, the world's evolving, I'm sure I've made a million mistakes. I don't even know I've made yet, and that's okay. That's welcome to starting a business. But I think, you know, what's really important is that you listen, that ultimately is nurturing for me. You listen to what someone's got to say.

Yiuwin Tsang: 19:43

It makes so much sense, Cathy, and the other bit that I take from what you're saying, there is this, you need to be able to trust your team and foster this culture where you trust them to do the work, to be diligent about the work, to be professional and to get what they need to get done and they respond in kind, they then trust you that you are making the best decisions for the business, for your customers, for them and stuff like this. And it is that, again, you say you worked in the corporate world. I bet like some of the culture that you see in the corporate world can be toxic because that trust is so difficult...

Cathy Moseley: 20:16

oh yeah.

... Yiuwin Tsang: 20:17

to create because of the systems, because of the structures. And because of the setup arguably because of the stakes as well, but it's much harder to generate that culture of trust, whereas in a smaller company again, you know?

Cathy Moseley: 20:29

Yeah. And I think you made a really good point earlier also, and, you know, trust being the ultimate word, but when you're in a small team, you can't hide anyway, so it would be revealed pretty quickly if you weren't doing the role anyway, you know, so I think there's that. And I think if you are hiring good people and they've got your value and they, you know, they can do the job, then your three quarters of the way there anyway, and the rest is honesty and trust. And if they feel that comes from you, then they will feel that also. And also the rest of the team is displaying that, and someone's not thinking 'God, they just went for two hours to go and do something with their kids', or they went and did this, they had to go skateboarding with their mates, cuz we're all trendy at Boundless, of course, we're all hip. And I'm on my Indo Board, as I'm speaking to you, we're like that, we're rolling with the best, the only CEO, we're on Indo Boards all day long, but you create that culture and to create that culture of honesty and trust and flexibility, but honest, hard work on the back of that. Okay. Is it has to start from the start because it is like a rotting apple. If you don't, the barrel will go, and you, you need to do it from start, but that has to come from you as a founder.

Yiuwin Tsang: 21:49

Thank you so much for listening to our Beautiful Business podcast and a huge thank you to Cathy Mosley from Boundless Activated Snacking for being a wonderful guest.