This week Yiuwin Tsang from the Beautiful Business team talks to Natalie Haigh who shares her incredibly powerful mental health story. Natalie’s story has some key learnings for all leaders and high-achievers out there. She talks about how important it is to have realistic expectations of yourself and the people around you and how these qualities allow you to lead people more collaboratively and more compassionately.
Natalie’s dream is of a better connected, kinder and more accepting world.
Natalie’s recent work has been in the charity sector where she has volunteered in a number of roles including setting up a new community non-profit. She is passionate about helping others and making a difference.
Previously she was the managing director of Mercury1 who have provided end-to-end software and support solutions using enterprise technology since 2006, and before that her experience was in IT leadership and innovation in the manufacturing sector for Procter and Gamble.
This week Yiuwin Tsang from the Beautiful Business team talks to Natalie Haigh who shares her incredibly powerful mental health story. Natalie’s story has some key learnings for all leaders and high-achievers out there. She talks about how important it is to have realistic expectations of yourself and the people around you and how these qualities allow you to lead people more collaboratively and more compassionately.
Natalie’s dream is of a better connected, kinder and more accepting world.
Natalie’s recent work has been in the charity sector where she has volunteered in a number of roles including setting up a new community non-profit. She is passionate about helping others and making a difference.
Previously she was the managing director of Mercury1 who have provided end-to-end software and support solutions using enterprise technology since 2006, and before that her experience was in IT leadership and innovation in the manufacturing sector for Procter and Gamble.
Yiuwin Tsang:
Let's talk about looking after yourself. And reading the signs of when things getting tough and the impact that can have on you as a person. So you've been, you've been through pretty tough time by anybody's measure, Natalie I find it incredibly inspiring to hear you speak so candidly about it. But could you give us a quick rundown on the journey that you've been on from a mental health perspective, please?
Natalie Haigh:
Yeah, so what actually happened? I was running a business one day, and then the next day, I disappeared for three years. If anyone has me on LinkedIn, I have actually written this down as a story if anyone wants to read it and I'm completely open to questions. I tend to bring it up at parties. That's quite a good opener!
So I had a bit of depression about in 2018. And took some time out, I spent a month or so in France, with my husband. So although we were sort of working, it was mainly like recuperation. I was just struggling to give a damn about anything. My weight was going up and down. I just, you know, I've always been a really positive person, really, kind of energetic and bold, like from a young age. And I just wasn't able to, I wasn't myself, I wasn't able to do any of those things.
And so we recognise that and we take some time out, we went to France, which was beautiful. Bordeaux was amazing. Did a lot of sport, a lot of walking, reflecting. And that was summer 2018. Then roll on December 2018. And I started to get really emotional in meetings. I mean, a lot was going on in the background in the business, a lot of financial sort of things coming to a head - we had changed accountants a few times. I was always really hands on with the books. But we've got really busy and I didn't have the same oversight as I used to. And there were things that were being categorised wrong. And there were things that weren't clear there. There were things that weren't being paid, there were clients that have been a real pain.
There was a lot of difficulty with a couple of clients - emotional difficulty, you know, really nasty stuff going on. And, of course, being the MDU, it was all kind of coming on my desk, and sort of, I felt like I was kind of emotional support to the clients to my business partner and to the rest of the team. So I took it and I felt like everything was my fault, like, everything sat on my chest, literally. And so I was really struggling.
And so I sort of felt very responsible, didn't feel like I had an escape route and really struggled to maintain my emotion. So we would have directors meetings, and I would have to go on to mute or turn my camera off, because we're all working in different places. And I couldn't even answer questions sometimes. Because like that, that emotion had gone to my throat, and I couldn't speak. And that's very unlike me - that was very out of character.
But everyone kind of accepted that I was really under a lot of pressure. In my personal lif, we were living in Spain and my Spanish friends were sort of making comments to my husband, ‘she's starting to act a bit strange, you know, a bit clumsy,’ you know, just saying a few weird things. I mean, my Spanish was terrible. So that might have just been bad Spanish. But there were definitely comments. But everyone excused it - she's just really stressed. And I had a bit of a breakdown on Christmas Day, I cooked a Christmas meal for 13 people in Spain, English traditional full Christmas meal to 13 people in a kitchen the size of a postage stamp. And basically one of my friends who's a psychologist, sent me out to the balcony for 20 minutes to say go lie down and come back.
And so that was also excused and you know, tucked away and in the six months up to that time, I'd had stomach upset and a bit of flu, tonsillitis. I felt like I was constantly taking medication and antibiotics. And even though I was reasonably healthy and walking two hours a day, I still was really struggling with my immune system.
And then on the fifth of January, I woke up in the middle of the night talking to people who weren't there. And my husband thought I was joking for about four hours, and was getting to the point of being very crossed that it really wasn't funny anymore. You know, I've done a lot of amateur dramatics. So you know, when I'm, if you've got someone who's got that much energy and that much character in them, when you then get psychosis is furloughed, and very kind of over the top. And I don't know whether other people's representations are different. But for me, you know, I was throwing myself down the stairs, I was talking complete nonsense, I was getting cross I was having like, fits of laughter. Like, just, you know, the class, if you put on a play, and you have this classic, complete mad woman in the middle, that's basically what I was doing. And in the end, he didn't know what to do.
So he found a Spanish psychologist friend who came over who tried to exercise me. He has a different personality as well. So he was like, Yeah, we need to get rid of these demons. And my husband doesn't have any, he's a scientist doesn't have any time for that. So he called an ambulance in Spain. The ambulance came 11 o'clock in the morning. And I just remember bits of it, I have some recollection of just being utterly terrified.
I thought that I was, you know, as it Samuel Beckett, Quantum Leap, I thought that I was going unconscious and appearing in other people's bodies in road traffic accidents. And it was my imperative to tell whoever was there that this person was injured, or like that this person had this allergy. And it was really important. It's all about medical stuff. And I think that's because the first few weeks of my illness I was in and out of hospital, and that when they first went in, they thought I had some kind of, well, the first questions were about what drugs I was taking. And I've never, I've only drunk alcohol, and I've never smoked. So that was really funny. And they literally had to interview not just me, not with my partner. But all my friends were taken into a room to like, make sure that no one had given me something.
And that hadn't that wasn't and then they thought maybe I had some kind of biological illness that was could have been contagious. So I was in like a beta cocoon, and everyone came in to enhance that suit. So when you've got psychosis, you can imagine how frightening it is. And of course, they all look alike. I just imagined that they you know, the Spanish Easter festival where they look like the Klu Klux Klan, but then it's all sort of black masks and pointed hats. And I thought that's what they were doing. And I was, you know, being taken to hell, basically, I definitely imagined that I had died and became a ghost.
People pay a lot of money and take a lot of drugs to get the same experience. So trippy. Yeah, I was an alien. I thought I was an Android. I was running around with it, I was so hot.
Because the actual underlying issue was my thyroid had gone hyperactive. I was losing weight hand over fist and my metabolism was so high that I was just burning up. So I would literally be taking my clothes off, because I'm trying to put my head under the tap because it was so warm. And then just running around, and I didn't want to be caught. And I can be quite quick. So you know, I was like running around.
You know, when we took me back to the UK on the ferry, I was running around the ferry with no clothes on, you know, they had to literally lock me in the cabin, and take turns all the way through the night to sit at the door. So I didn't escape. So yeah, it was I mean, it would make an amazing film, like some of the things I thought were happening were hilarious.
But, you know, reflecting on that the amount of stress that I put friends and family through in that period. And being in a different country. I mean, they were amazing. Let's not get that wrong. But when I wouldn't stop running around, they tied me to the bed, so they weren't able to articulate to me clearly what tests they were doing. I wasn't always with it. So I was as far as I was concerned, I was constantly in lifts, which I'm afraid of anyway, constantly in machines that were making funny noises. I had gel on my head. And when they did all the different tests, plugged into a heart machine a whole load of times and you know, in ICU, and I didn't know what was going on, and no one can tell me and so I ended up with PTSD, which is actually one of the things that took the longest time to actually get over.
So after the psychosis positive they gave me the medication, and obviously the depression that was underlying that. Also medication anxiety attacks. You know, I remember years ago sort of saying, Oh, I'm anxious. I didn't know what anxiety was, you know, real anxiety. panic attacks is absolutely terrifying. You think you're gonna die, you can't breathe. The world is literally compressing on you. I had one at Gatwick I was on my own a little while after being it, I was in recovery. And I had to go meet Phil in France and how to get a plane on my own. It was the middle of Gatwick, which is you know, huge airport. And I was standing in the middle and suddenly there's panic, the wave of panic got me. And I was, I didn't know what to do. And fortunately, I have a mental health nurse. You see them every week, and she's programmed into my phone, the help lines, and I rang the helpline. And they were brilliant. And they just said, Right, okay, you want to find an edge, sit down, do the breathing techniques, and they just talked me through, right, we know where you are, we know where you're going, You know what, this is what we're going to do, and they were absolutely brilliant, because all my notes are up to date, and they can immediately like, anchor me on who you're going to see why are you getting on the plane? No, just just look around, you can see five things that are blue, can you can you go through the Oh, no, the one and the tech distraction techniques that you use to bring your breathing back to normal when to and to kind of focus you and distract you away from the panic is all those techniques and I got on the plane and I managed to get to France in one piece.
The tough things were like the guilt, you know, because I was a business owner, and I was the MD of this company, it was going into a difficult period. And I left overnight. And I didn't go back. And I think for me, I really struggled for the first time I kept asking questions about the business and about the team, you know, three of the staff were brand new that hadn't been embedded.
Then I have my brother in law who now has his own business fortunately. So that was he got pushed out of the business. And they didn't want to tell me I found out through someone's side comment to someone else and then started asking for that I felt like that's my fault. I haven't mentored him well enough. Like I didn't do enough work with the clients in order to have there be enough you know, revenue to keep everything going.
And of course the guilt just was so difficult. And you know, even though they're obviously your MP was saying you know, might be one is in your past now you need to focus on you and you to focus on getting better, and doing all these exercises and everything they get you to do.
I really struggle to let go the responsibility lie with the business and then I'll afterwards, when it was clearly no longer I mean, after a year, being out of the business, it would have felt really weird to go back in. And so right taking it was gonna want that. I, I struggled to know who I was. So I was really lucky, I was referred to a number of things, my husband found loads of research about what would really help.
So there's a couple of charities and there's of NHS training. So I did as much training read as many books as possible as part of my recovery. But I went into this, I recognise this in retired people, actually, there's sort of like this identity crisis. And it's when you move from one kind of area of your life to another, so becoming a parent, or you have kids leaving home, being retired as a really clear one, or having a breakdown or, or losing your job changing industry that you don't realise that as you go through your life and business, you stick all these labels on yourself, and that becomes who you are, and how you measure yourself, how you measure how successful you are.
And I was this, you know, I was mentoring, I was swimming in tech, I was this MD, you know, I was in lots of networks, locally in Hampshire and also doing stuff we were living in Spain, I was in business networks there.
And so I had this kind of really strong sense of self. And when I was recovering in hospital, and told that I wasn't going back to that one, I was no longer going to be an MD, I was no longer going to be a women in tech, I didn't have a team to manage. I just had me. And I felt utterly lost.
I felt like and you know, part of my illness, so the concentration, the swelling in the brain, that causes psychosis meant that I couldn't remember how to do anything, I couldn't even read a children's book. I would just cry. I was like, I don't know what to do. And it wasn't being discovered, I literally just couldn't remember how to shower, I knew there was an order I knew there was must be a way to do it. But I just didn't remember what you did, in what order or how. And the fear that as you start to get a bit better the fear that something you relied on your quickness of thoughts, your ability to problem solve, to make decisions to read all of these things that you just assume are always going to be there. You are so afraid that they're not going to come back? And of course, then it's like, am I going to be accepted on my friends gonna like it is my husband leave me because he's with me, because I'm an intelligent, interesting human being, if I'm no longer these things I do I lose everything.
And in that process, you you lose a part of yourself, and you don't even like yourself. And I think that it made me realise when I went through the training, and that she always had disliked a bit of myself.
And, having that revealed was really helpful. Because it was like, right, okay, you have got this opportunity to blank slate. Let's start from the beginning. Let's find out what you like and don't like about yourself, and let's have some compassion for yourself. And let's build your identity from the base up. And I'm not recommending everyone gets, you know, sectioned or have a simple mental breakdown to do this process because you can do without any of the pain.
But it's it's recognising that some of those labels are not particularly helpful. And they don't need to be permanent labels and, and the stories that people told me as I was recovering about what happened when I was in hospital and running around naked talking about aliens being one of them.
But the other thing was, there was a cleaner that came in in Spanish hospital and tried to mop the floor. And although I've lost mobility at one point, because of one of the medications gave me Parkinson like symptoms, I fell out of the crawled on the floor and tried to take the mop off her.
And there's what ensued was this this big argument in Spanish. But the upshot of it was, I was trying to help. I didn't feel that it was fair that she had to come and clean my room when I would have been capable.
I was still had a sense of humour, I still wanted to help people. And he said they're like the core personality, things that didn't change, despite all the other things that were going on. So he said, You know, that's who you are. And that's what I had to reconnect with. As I built my identity back up. It was like, I like to help people and that's not always a good thing. But it is true to who I am.
Even when you took everything else away that was still there. So so it's kind of like who are you? What are you about? Give out the good, the bad and the ugly. You know, all of it is a whole package and no one is completely perfect. And actually the definition of perfect changes depending on who you are or what perspective If you've got someone can be looking at you, from the other side of the room think you're the most perfect human being ever. And someone else is looking from a competitive place. Like your neighbour being like, You're so annoying, you've got an annoying dog, like just can't stand you. And that's all completely fine.
Everybody's feedback is different. But I think you need to be able to look at yourself and say, Yeah, okay, I've got floors. But these are the things about me that are okay. And this is where I want to grow from. And this is what, what I want to be about. And, you know, I am so grateful for having gone through that journey. I mean, yeah, it was tough. And I regret that it has such a massive impact on people in my life. But I am so much more underlying happy and confident, genuine self esteem is better than it ever has been. And I feel that what I would love to do now is reach out and help other people make progress or help them in any way I can. And like a voice going through that in the first place. But also, what did I learn? And how could that help others? Is it Yeah, it was really tough, but I learned so much from it.
Yiuwin Tsang:
And, it's really interesting about what you were just saying there about these kind of core identity traits that you have. And it sounds like these are the sorts of things that if you can unlock what they are, if you can identify what they are within yourself, then they're the sorts of things which are applicable, regardless of what scenario you're in, you know, the things that will still still still be there, if you strip everything else back, then, you know, those are things that will still be there. As you say, your kind of your motivations, your values, your kind of principles, what makes your skill set as well.
Natalie Haigh:
It's all about transferable skills a lot in business. And I think that if you've got someone coming into your organisation as a team member, or you're made redundant, and you got to go into a different industry, or you really can't stand the direction that you introduce, go again, you want to make a change, it's coming back to like, what am I transferable skills, you know, because it isn't like, Oh, I'm an accountant, I can only do this. It's like, okay, you're analytical, you know, you're good with numbers, you're a problem solver. These are all, you know, you can apply them to any role in any business.
And I think that's the thing, we should be looking at CVS and skillsets, building people's confidence around, what are the actual skills and techniques that you're utilising in those roles, not, you know, this spreads, because if you can do one spreadsheet, you can do another spreadsheet with different data on it, like the same, the same stuff, right? I mean, okay, some knowledge is very specific for that scientists, you know, that their experience or their knowledge is very specific, but actually using scientific techniques is universal. So, yeah. And that really, that thinking should be applied to lots of other industries.
Yiuwin Tsang:
Yeah, definitely. And as you say, it's when you when you are able to dig right down into your core into, you know, the things that I suppose kind of make you you in many senses, recognising that, whilst you whilst you're healthy and mentally healthy to do so, as well, it's not a bad thing to do. And it's a very valuable thing to do as well, I guess it will help you inform.
I just wanted to just touch back on a couple of things. And thank you for being so candid again, and luckily it sounds it sounds so traumatic, but it's incredible to hear the journey that you've had coming out of your sight and how it's strengthened you and yet made it made you who you are, and today in many senses
But hindsight being such a wonderful thing, you said a few things there about this kind of repeated kind of illness or unwellness that you had and and also this other part where there was an your your phrase, I think was talked down stuff like things will happen and it would almost be like, people will just excuse it or just talk it down or or kind of minimise it.
Were there any other kinds of signs, I suppose that when you look back you think do you know what if you saw these things happening or manifesting and somebody that you were mentoring, or that you will close with that you're friends with that will make you go hang on a second, like things aren't quite right. Is there anything else that you think because again, we go back to that whole point of being a founder can be quite a lonely, lonely existence?
And almost, I suppose having things that you recognise in yourself, where you think maybe when you go chat with somebody or whatever might be, was there anything else?
Natalie Haigh:
I mean, definitely, I would say changes in behaviour.
So cancelling things, whether that be like team meetings. I think that's easy for that person to recognise and also other people in their lives, conversations and openness.
If somebody is just seeming to pull away a little bit, resisting, having direct conversations resisting eye contact, they're probably going through a lot of things in that in that room process in their own mind.
So I would say kind of like self criticism. And they're worried that having a conversation, an open honest conversation with someone is going to bring that out. And there's afraid of saying certain things.
So I think as people start pulling back from personal relationships, that's often an early warning sign, as I mentioned before illness, so even just like just getting a cold, like if your immune system just seems rundown, and then did changes in emotions, just struggling to cope with things that you would normally cope with.
I mean, the biggest one, certainly from a health point of view is lack of sleep as soon as you and they actually think although the thyroid is linked to psychosis, there was a huge amount of research around this area.
But one of the theories is that the lack of sleep when your thyroid is overactive, and your metabolism is so high, your brain is going 29 To the dozen. And so you're thinking all the time and you don't sleep.
If you think about years ago, they used to use sleep deprivation as a torture, because you get hallucinations. So that's certainly one of the first things that happened to me was a hallucination.
So they actually think that there's a chance that it wasn't sort of so much of swelling in the brain, but the lack of sleep that caused a lot of the initial psychosis. And so I think you know, having I mean, I've got a Garmin watch and there all sorts of sort of apps and stuff I now really fierce about I monitor my weight every week. I do my blood pressure every week when I remember, I monitor my sleep, calorie burn my exercise, my general like sense of well being.
If I'm slipping into habits like watching, it's okay to watch Netflix, I think it's really important to schedule downtime and time and you can't just be we're not we're not robots, you can't go go go go all the time. In fact, even robots need to be plugged in every now and again, like you are watching Netflix is fine. But if I sit down and I watch something, I don't know, kind of like homeland or Quantico, something that's a little bit dark. And I'm watching three episodes at a time. And I'm not even getting up if I need a wee or drink. I'm not even getting up to do that. I know that's not healthy for me.
And I know that that's symptomatic of something else. So just aware of habits like that and say what am I just think what am I avoiding? Or like for me, if I do the housework if I go and clean the house, there's something I don't want to do.
Yiuwin Tsang
Yeah, definitely. I think I fall into that sort of trap. Thankfully, our business partner recognises that if I'm like incredibly busy, then it's probably because there's something that I'm putting off, and I'm just making myself busy doing other stuff. And as it comes back, you know, you mentioned guilt a few times you feel kind of guilty, you think I should feel like this. And it sounds like the voice of experience or you have that you have to have a degree of self awareness. That comes back to that recognising that you're not impervious to stuff, you're not some sort of superhero.
Natalie Haigh
And that you don't have to be, I think it's really important to like, for people to understand that, like, you talk about guilt and sort of self criticism. You know, the expectations that we put on ourselves and others nowadays are completely.
They're just, they're not attainable. They're just too much, especially if you have other roles if you're a parent, and a business owner and a partner, and friend, and maybe you've got a podcast or something else that you're also trying to do or another hobby or you're you know, like I do a lot of volunteering as well, you're putting so many hats on and you if you actually wrote down the hours that you would need to do to reach your own level of attainment, your own expectation, you're in a week, you're going to basically schedule yourself like 400 hours, which doesn't exist in a week.
So you're already setting yourself up for failure. So you either have to not plan to fail. So reduce your own expectations or reduce the amount of things you're doing and and what you can do is say what seasonal, right?
Okay, so in the summer, I'm really going to focus on this volunteering and not to so much on the work. And then this time is going to be dedicated to family, you know, however you want to do it, split it like that, so that it isn't just the constant demand on your time all the time that's not sustainable. But also you need to look at, be self aware, but also be self forgiving.
Because you know, if you if a friend came to you and they're really sort of overwhelmed, you would not in the first five minutes tell They've helped crap they have been and how they should be better, which is what you tell yourself. You would be compassionate and kind and tell them all the things that they've been successful at, and that maybe they need to look at their schedule. You know, maybe they need to take some time out. What about a quick holiday? And you never say these things to yourself. And I think that, you know, we need to be compassionate, collaborative, authentic with ourselves because at the end of the day, if we can't lead ourselves, then how can we lead other people.