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Yiuwin Tsang
Hello and welcome to the Beautiful Business Podcast. Beautiful Business is a community for leaders who believe there's a better way of doing business. We believe beautiful businesses are led with purpose by people who care, guided by a clear strategy and soulfully grown. Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the Beautiful Business Podcast. My name is Yiuwin Tsang. I'm part of the Beautiful Business team, and I was joined this week by Richard Thomson. Richard is a CEO of Kaptcha, the Visual Communications Agency, which specialises in bringing the vision and purpose of his clients to life. Richard cut his teeth at the BBC, where he directed some of their biggest and most engaging shows including Top Gear, Formula One, Crime Watch, Holiday and Godless world. He rose to become commissioning executive for factual programmes selected popularly new shows for BBC One and Two, while continuing to executive producer series, including Saturday Kitchen and Escape to the Country. Bringing these skills to the corporate wealthy then launch and run the pioneering and multi award winning HSBC TV using his broadcast experience to bring the same on watch ability to hspcs corporate film output. Today, purpose is a part of successful business. And like Richards TV shows, Kaptcha harnesses the power of film to tell the engaging stories behind the brands, creating real change in the way audiences internal and external think and feel. Richard, let's talk about pro bono projects. And let's have a chat about how you do it. And what you feel the benefits are you and the team run a fabulous pro bono initiative every year, tell us all about it out of the combat and what is you do.
Richard Thomson
So I'll be honest with you, the very first project we did was born out of trying to get more work from an existing client. We were working with a large corporates, and we noticed that we were starting to get less work from them. And I saw one of their senior people, one of their senior stakeholders that we worked with, had been posting on LinkedIn about this wonderful organisation called andiamo, who helped children with cerebral palsy. And I thought, well, if we can do something for andiamo, that will reflect really well on us. And then I can go back to this client and say, Look what we've done. And they'll give us tonnes of work, because I think, Oh, you're the good guys. So we approached andiamo, who were lovely, really lovely. And we said, look, you know, we're doing this thing, we're starting to sing this pro bono work, we'd love to do a film for you, we say that we will offer up to the value of 10,000 pounds worth of work at no cost to them. And they were delighted. They said, Actually, we've got an event coming up in about a week and a half. And we really need a good, strong, powerful emotive film that will make people feel connected to our business. So it was quite fast turnaround, we went in the following day to meet them. And they told us all about their work they did. It's all about sort of 3d printing for children with cerebral palsy. And he said, what's interesting, but you know, if we're gonna get that emotive pull in there, are there any stories of individuals that we could tell that would make it more powerful? And they said, well, actually, recently, we've just done some work with this young boy, Tom, 13 years old, and his mother is just like, raving about us, and just saying how much it's changed our son's life. So we phoned them up that afternoon, Tom and his mother and said, Look, we're doing his filming in a couple of days time, would you be up for it? And she says, Yeah, I love what andiamo do with that. So we made the film, it was really fast turnaround, it went out. They were delighted with it. And then we then went back to the client and said that we did this film for andiamo. Isn't it great? Yeah, it's good. Didn't get us any more work at all. I think over the next few months, we gradually stopped working with that client. And it was completely the opposite effect of what I'd hoped. I don't think it was because we did the film Friday. But it didn't have the effects, I'd hoped it would. But actually, what it did do was it gave us as a team, something that we were really, really proud of. We all, as a team loved working on the project, because it felt we were doing something that was a real impact. There was a lovely story, it was helping anti armour actually helped them raise funds. And it just brought us together as a team made us feel really tight. So that reward was far better than getting a few extra videos from that particular client.
Yiuwin Tsang
I bet. And thank you for being so honest as well, in terms of, you know, the old kind of initial kind of motivations for doing it. I guess the big thing that's coming up for me is from that story is the fact that you did the pro bono work for a cause, like a really important and really powerful kind of cause and kind of purpose. And the fact that there were the stories as well, the personal stories or stories, you know, of Tom and his mom and their experiences, while really what I'm trying to say I suppose, which is, you know, if you did a bit of pro bono work, where there wasn't such a story, there wasn't such an emotional kind of pull to it, then arguably, it may well have not had such a profound impact on your team in terms of pulling together. So again, from a listeners perspective, the importance of choosing the right kind of projects, I guess, and choosing the right kind of partner to work with must be really profound again, really, really powerful in terms of that first kind of project, as I say, and you mentioned the way that the team kind of pulled together just to explain a little bit more, what kind of effect Did you see, I guess there must have been in terms of retention in terms of recruitment, there must be some real positive upside to delivering a project like that.
Richard Thomson
Yeah, I mean, we're not a huge company, you and you know, so we're not recruiting, you know, loads of people each year. But it did help us, point us in the direction of where we wanted to go. And again, it was that actually happened just before COVID. And I think that was one of the things that helped me realise the direction I wanted our organisation to go in. And we talked a lot with the team that we do have about the organisation, the direction we're going in. And again, that resonated with all of us, we felt really good about doing it. I mean, from you're absolutely right, the motor films do have more of an impact than bog standard, just here's a few facts. And they're, you know, when you've got an individual story, you can make a lot more resonance with the audience than telling it sort of general corporate story. I think a lot of brands realise that now. But you know, that sort of story of the here's a brand video about who we are and what we do, it's a bit detached, but impersonal. Yes, organisations need it. But actually, it's more the impact that companies make on individuals rather than the sort of, here's a product we make. Those are the stories that are really, really powerful.
Yiuwin Tsang
And again, that application, if there are listeners who are thinking about doing pro bono projects, and again, I feel like this kind of transitions beyond, you know, just TV production, programme production, almost into any other service. But if you are going to undertaking we'll talk a bit more about, you know, what's going to take us look like finding the right kind of project, finding the right stories within those projects. And the people it sounds like it's a people, it's a human connection, though, so often comes back around, that makes these projects so powerful, and makes the impact of them so great, both internally within your team, but also for the benefit of the client as well. So this is in the third year of doing these projects now. And I know that you've learned some lessons on the way as well, what do you think had been the biggest challenges in terms of running these types of pro bono projects? And how did they manifest on what did you have to do about them?
Richard Thomson
So we treat our pro bono work very much like any paid work initially, you know, we approach it in the same way we ask the client for brief, we work up treatments, we work up scripts, we do the filming, we do the post production, we work primarily around what the objectives of the film are for the clients that's really, really important. What do they actually want the film to achieve? We make sure we work to the budget that they need to work to, sometimes client top up the budget a little bit, but they have a budget that they're working to, and they often have a deadline they're working to. So in many ways, the films are similar in the way we approached them as if it was paid work. But in terms of the challenges, it's around choosing the right projects, I think, and choosing the right people to work with and the right stories to tell. So andiamo was a great one. They were lovely people we liked them straightaway when we met them and with a little bit of work on finding what was the right angle and and what was the best approach. We did a really lovely story actually helped them raise 5 million in funding for their organisation so that was a great reward for that they were chuffed about that. We were delighted about that. The second pro bowling we did was actually with the NSPCC, it was in the middle of COVID. They had an event that was usually a real event. But that had to go virtual because it was an COVID. And they needed some films to help tug at the heartstrings and raise the money for the charity. They were actually thinking about not doing the events at all. But in the end, they said right, let's do it. So we made some films for them. And again, really lovely people to work with, really appreciated what we were doing. And that raised I think over 30,000 from that particular event. So again, really rewarding. It was actually the third pro bono where the wheels came off a little bit. We had approached people that that stage. So we approached andiamo direct, we approached NSPCC direct, and I won't say the name of this client, but we had approached this client direct as well. It was a cause that as an organisation we really believed in we thought they were doing great work, we completely agreed with what they were trying to achieve. So we approached and said, Look, you know, we do this thing, pro bono film, 10,000 pounds worth of value. And we would love to do one from you. And the alarm bells I think should have run right at the beginning. Because I guess if somebody phones you up out of the blue and says I want to give you 10,000 pounds of free work. I'd probably be a bit sceptical. But you know, when you say look, this is what we did for andiamo a couple years ago. This is what we did for NSPCC last year. And you look at the body of our work on our website, you can see that we're good quality and you can see we've got good intentions, but they challenged us why should we work with you tell us why we should work with you. We had several phone calls. And it was well okay. We'll give you a brief and we want you to work up some treatments and if we liked them, you know, we'll maybe work with you. So straightaway I'm thinking it's second. We're offering you 10,000 pounds of work here and I love what you do, but they It needs to be a bit of sort of mutual respect and mutual appreciation. And we did workups and treatments. And they sort of liked them a bit but weren't quite right. And they started staring us down this route of doing a film, which I'm sure tick the boxes they wanted to tick, but actually, for us was quite a dull film in quite a practical and there was no emotion that we were going to be able to inject into this film, it was quite a sort of practical, this is what we do. And after a while, we just said, Look, this isn't working for us, this isn't giving us the reward we want. This isn't making us feel good. Partly the people, I think partly the way they were steering us. So we actually came out of that one. So I think finding people that you like working with, that you want to work with, and they want to work with you is one of the key challenges
Yiuwin Tsang
100% pro bono work or not, you know, that's a the lubrication really, isn't it that helps those relationships work. Yeah, it's very interesting that you say about because it comes back to what we spoke about earlier about the story, the emotions and the impact it can have having that human connection. So I suppose from a project perspective to be railroaded, it probably is too strong a word, but to be pushed towards a place where you weren't going to get that emotional connection where you weren't going to pull out those human stories, it almost removes the purpose of doing the pro bono project in the first place, both for the client, and for you and your team, you want everybody who's been involved in this to take away as a positive, they could be working long hours putting blood, sweat and tears into it. But if they feel like they've got that feeling inside of look, what we've done, look at the impact that we've had, you know, that goes beyond pounds, shillings and pence in terms of its value. Whereas if it's just like, yeah, we put 400 hours into this, and it's a corporate video that sits eight pages deep and the website's had four views over the last six months, you don't get that sort of reward and again, defeats the objective of the exercise in its entirety. Yeah,
Richard Thomson
I think for me, you and I think a lot of creative people like to be valued and respected. For the work they do. I mean, everybody loves coffee, let's face it, you know, whatever work you're doing, you like a tap on the back, saying you did a good job. But I think maybe creative people need that even more than other people do. I know some of my team, they create great film for the client. And I'd say 90% of the time, we get a lovely tap on the back from the client saying we love what you've done. But the 10% that they don't, they can do something wrong. And it's nothing they've done wrong. It's just the client is not used to giving that sort of praise. But absolutely for us, we want to be valued. And you know, for the work we do and appreciated
Yiuwin Tsang
100%, my background has always been kind of like sales and business development. And I remember ages ago, is this discussion about commissions and things like this, this discussion was going on? Why should salespeople get commissioned? And people who do the work don't? And the best answer I heard was, we don't spend our weekends and evenings doing selling because we enjoy it. Whereas from a creative perspective, and from writing as well, you can create things in your own time because you get the pleasure from doing it. And the reward from creating something beautiful from making something or putting something out into the world. So the thought that you could kind of do this with a pro bono project where you generate that type of reward, you create something beautiful and put on to the world, then that in itself is a value that you create. So I completely get it 100%. Okay, just to
Richard Thomson
jump in there not to take away from anybody else's job. But creative people do not switch off creative people are not nine to five people. I bet if you talk to any creative person that's doing creative work, they will say, I think about what I'm doing from the moment I wake up in the morning till when I go to sleep better at night, you know, there's constantly something worrying around, can I make that film better? Can I make that blog better? Can I make that poster better? You know, if you're creative? There's no right or wrong answer. There's just the best you can do. And so come five or six in the evening, you might walk away from your computer, but there's still stuff swirling around in your head.
Yiuwin Tsang
Indeed, it's just that nine to five says that hours that you get paid for it, but you're still doing it anyway. Yeah, that's outside of the time. But it comes back to that piece, I think, Richard, where you spoke about how the team comes together, how you almost building these connections between your team, you're having this shared experience on you were you've worked on this thing together, you've all played your part and bringing this thing to life. And that cohesion between the team that you can't put a price on it, that kind of shared reward, that shared experience of doing it of delivering it hitting the targets that you wanted to hit as a team internally, but it again comes back to how important it is that you pick the right project that you work with the right partners or clients if you want to call them so that you do get that and I guess that's a real consideration there. Isn't that the payments 20 grand, so we'll do what they ask us to or we'll put up with them be innovative indicative something perhaps more important than ever with the pro bono project is to make sure you've got that chemistry with the partners. Would you say that's true? Oh, absolutely.
Richard Thomson
So after the first couple of pro Bono's, we did where we were lucky we hit on people we loved working with after that third one where things didn't go quite as well. We did put some criteria in place. We sat down with the team and said, Look, you know, what are our criteria? First and foremost, it has to be a project where we think we're going to make a difference that we believe in the cause that we're doing. But on top of that, it has to be people we like people that we think we're going to work really well with people that are going to value our experience, you know, I've worked in television, very high end television, and then corporate for 30 years, we have amazing creative director who's got very similar tonnes and tonnes of awards. You know, whenever I go on Zoom, he's got 30 awards behind him. And so he just showing up now, you know, and the rest of the team, fantastic team. So we want people that respect that value that we bring, not to say that we don't want to be challenged. And that, you know, if we just give you something we expect you to say, yeah, we'll take that we want to be challenged. But you know, let's work together getting this right. But the other things around it are that the brief there has to be a well thought out brief from the client. If you haven't got a clear brief on what they're trying to achieve, then you can waste an awful lot of time. I think it's something that pieces that are said, which is Who are those clients that will make you famous? Who are those clients that you would do a piece of work for that you can take on to other clients and say, Look, we did this, you know, and so that's when we're choosing pro bono now, we're looking for ticking those boxes, but also something that we can say we're going to be really proud of this. But it's also something that we can take on to show to other people and be proud of and hopefully get more work. In a similar vein,
Yiuwin Tsang
I just want to take a quick minute to say thanks to our trusted partners, Crystal hosting. Crystal is a B Corp powered by 100% renewable energy, and has a goal of planting 1 billion trees by 2030. Crystal services super fast and super reliable. And they're genuinely really nice people. We're super picky over who we work with as partners, our beautiful business. And we're delighted to count crystal as one of them back to the podcast, and becomes almost like this virtuous circle, doesn't it in the sense that you know, if you're investing your time, your effort and your resources into creating something for a organisation that you care about that you believe in that you align with in terms of values and whatnot, when you have the finished product. And as you say, if you're using it as a case study or as a conversation starter, or it's just a showcase of what you're doing, then you'd have thought it will attract. And it will appeal to people who have similar values who have similar thoughts in terms of what's important to them in terms of you know, the purpose that they aligned to as well. So you have this wonderful turbo kind of going really isn't it in terms of producing the work with the benefit of building that cohesion with your team having the shared experience, you have the internal benefit, you have the external benefit that comes off the back of it as well, which sounds absolutely lovely, but it's not always, you know, rainbows and butterflies is that what would you say? What would you say the biggest takeaways that you'd share with our listeners, if they were thinking about doing some pro bono work like this in terms of your expense? What would you share with them? What works? Well,
Richard Thomson
I think you and I've sort of said most of this already, I think it's finding projects that you know, you can get passionate about, but then finding people that you can work with people that you like, sometimes it takes a little while. But usually, as soon as you meet somebody you go, I'm going to like working with this person. So we actually now advertise our pro bono in a competition, we put the address out there, and we put it on LinkedIn, few other channels. And we say, Look, you know, we'd like you to submit a form about why you would like to work with us and what you want us to do. And that way, number one, we know that we've got people actually want to work with us, rather than us having to chase them. And number two, it means that we know that they have a clear objective of what they want to achieve a reason for what they want to do. And we are just coming to the end of our period of choosing who that pro bono will be this year. So maybe if we talking to your son, or having even more or less than to tell you from that, but I think overall it is finding a project that you're passionate about, and people that you think you're gonna love working with.
Yiuwin Tsang
Brilliant. And in terms of actually running the project, you run it internally, as if it was paid work in terms of you know, the allocation, prioritisation and things like that. You mentioned that a relatively small team. So you and I both know that time is incredibly precious commodity capacity is always under pressure from one thing or another. How do you kind of reconcile the pro bono work with the paid work that you do at Kaptcha?
Richard Thomson
So we do obviously have pay client work to do, what we do with the pro bono is we work out what their deadline is, like any job, what's your deadline with andiamo? It was really quick. And we had capacity at that stage to fit that in that particular time. We do have times when it's really, really busy. And it would be tricky to fit it in. But usually it's a case of saying to our pro bono client, When is the deadline? When do you need this and then we can work back from that. And usually around that, you know, might not be the exact time they want to film there might be no we might have to move the filming around a little bit. But we will make it work, then whatever happens like any client job, we will make it work is just that maybe we need to move the dates around to accommodate us a little bit more. But so far, that's worked well for the clients.
Yiuwin Tsang
So there's still that there's still a discipline, there's still the rigour that you have around the planning and the allocation and things like this, I guess with any of this sort of thing is a gay as you say it's around preparation is around knowing what the company workflows look like and what work is already scheduled in to make sure that Don't put your team under pressure or you let the client down. And part of that is identifying where those key milestones are, I guess in terms of that project work.
Richard Thomson
Yeah. And I think it's also it's not so much letting that slide down selecting your other clients now, because if you have a really lovely job that people go up, you're not really looking forward to that. It's not dropping the ball on that pro bono work, it's probably more likely to be dropping the work on the client work that isn't maybe quite as interesting, let's say. So yeah, it's a funny one in the creative industry, we will always work to a deadline in nine years. I've never ever missed a deadline. So it's just saying, what's the deadline you're working to? And let's work back from that.
Yiuwin Tsang
Fabulous. And I know you've talked a lot already about, you know, some of the big upsides that come from doing this work. But for you, you know, personally, what do you think biggest kind of benefit from this pro bono work come from these pro bono projects? How does it affect you?
Richard Thomson
I think the most important thing is the feelgood factor. It makes the team feel good. The fact that we're doing something that's making a really positive impact for the right reasons, is the biggest plus, I'd love to say you and that brought in lots of extra work as yet it hasn't. But be lovely to think that other similar organisations or organisations who are doing good look at and go, you know, I think these guys are great. We want to work with them and what pay them but actually where we are at the moment. It's just doing it to make the team feel good and to make us feel like we're making a positive difference in the world. And that's a great legacy to leave.
Yiuwin Tsang
Thank you so much for joining us for this week's episode. And thank you Richard from Kaptcha for sharing your experiences and all the lessons that you've learned working at the BBC and launching and running Kaptcha. Thank you for joining us for this week's Beautiful Business Podcast. Beautiful Business is a community for leaders who believe there's a better way to do business. Join us next time for more interesting discussion on how businesses can bring about change, helping communities, building a fairer society and safeguarding the planet. You can also join in the discussion at www.beautifulbusiness.uk