00:00
Charlie Van Derven
Hello and thank you for tuning in to another episode of RIA Collective. I'm your host, Charlie Van Derven. I've got a great guest today who has been through many roles in our industry and is independent with the securities America's firm. Pamela Sam's is joining us from Jackson Sam's Wealth strategies in Washington, DC metro area. First off, Pamela, thank you for taking time out of your day to be here. I appreciate it. 

 00:25
Pamela Sams
Yes, thank you very much for having me. Charles. 

 00:27
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, you got it. You got a great story, Pamela. Glad that we got to know each other and I'm glad I get to showcase you or host you in telling that story because I think you got a ton of value to bring to our listeners. Today we're going to talk certainly get your story and your journey. Today we're going to talk about the importance of knowing who it is that you're talking to, who you bring value to and who you serve as an advisor. So we'll dive into that. Pamela, let's talk about what drew you to financial services and specifically wealth management, because I know you were kind of headed down a different track in our industry before finding wealth management. 

 01:06
Pamela Sams
Exactly. To the listeners, really, it has been quite the journey. I started my practice in January 2002, so just over 21 years. What brought me to actually the industry is that I do have a financial management MBA, but an unfortunate circumstance happened in my family where my dad passed away, leaving my mom a widow. I had to kind of help her navigate some of that earlier on after my dad had passed away. That was the opportunity to use my MBA in financial management. As I shared before, I had a whole different direction. I thought I was going to go more investment banking. Kind of the Wall Street and that thing because that's kind of where people really target in this industry is kind of the illustrious or that thing that you see on movies that you want to run money all the time and do that thing. 

 02:08
Pamela Sams
That was kind of where I was focused in on. I had a family, two kids, back to back in graduate school, so figured that was not going to be the direction I wanted to go and then took some time, a sabbatical to figure out what my next best step was. Like I said, unfortunately my dad got sick and eventually passed away and that was the opportunity to really step in and help my mom with her finances. I figured there are other women similar to my mother's situation, maybe single by choice or divorce or widowed women who needed help with their finances. That's why I hung up my shingle out in January 2002, originally with the Merrier Prize Financial sorry, American Express Financial advisors. No, Ameriprise. I knew him back with exactly some. 

 02:54
Charlie Van Derven
Websites for him back in the day. 

 02:55
Pamela Sams
Yeah. That's where I kind of started with boots on the ground just trying to build my practice. 

 03:02
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, very cool. Did you always know when you started with Ameriprise? Of course. Ameriprise has the independent side of the business, too. You were on the captive side of Ameriprise, but was your goal always to become an independent advisor? 

 03:15
Pamela Sams
Yes, that was always the goal. The track with Ameriprise was always you start off kind of on the captive side as an employee making draw commission, and then eventually it was divided on what they call platform One or Platform Two. You started off as kind of Platform One, and you kind of graduate to Platform two at some point where you're able to own your own franchise as an independent advisor with the merit price. So that was always the track. I think it was usually they give you like three to five years kind of the timeline on when you would be eligible for platform too. Some people did it sooner, some people did it within the time frame. 

 03:56
Charlie Van Derven
I remember that from when were doing websites. You weren't a meerprise advisor. American Express Financial Advisors. To us. You were p ones and P two s. Exactly. 

 04:04
Pamela Sams
Yeah. 

 04:04
Charlie Van Derven
If you were a P One, you got one website. If you're a P Two, you got a different website. 

 04:08
Pamela Sams
Exactly. 

 04:10
Charlie Van Derven
So cool environment. Wonderful. From what I know of the firms, and I haven't been on that side. Right. From the conversations I've had and the people I've talked to, what a great kind of training ground. Also how fortunate for your clients and that you help and predominantly women fortunate that a difficult time in your family's life brought you to wealth management where you're taking care of so many people now. So how cool is that? 

 04:38
Pamela Sams
Yeah, it is awesome. I enjoy what I do every day. I get up every morning and get the opportunity to change lives and really impact people's future. 

 04:48
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, that's it. Now, you're not a P Two right now. No, I know something else happened there. Did you follow that track to P two or what happened there, Pamela? 

 05:00
Pamela Sams
Yeah, I did. I followed the track to P two and did that whole thing. At some point you figure you want more objectivity more where you're able to run your own show, so to speak. I left that and became independent with FOIA Financial Advisors and stayed there for about ten years. Of course, you always get to itch and you see there's other opportunities out there. Now I'm actually independent with securities america advisors. 

 05:32
Charlie Van Derven
That's awesome. I want to point out, right, ameriprise is not the only firm that has the P one and P two. Of course. 

 05:38
Pamela Sams
Correct. 

 05:38
Charlie Van Derven
Everybody else. Wells Fargo advisors versus Finet. And Raymond James has Raymond James associates. There's other firms that do that, right, that have a captive and an independent side. What's interesting, and I see it with other firms too, is that though you're an independent advisor, you're still governed largely like you're captive, right? I mean, you don't have the objectivity. Maybe that a full independent like you're in position and you're in now does. So that's interesting. That's always been kind of a weird little area of the industry for me where I work with a bunch of finite advisors, but in large part they're still governed like a Wells Fargo advisor. That's an interesting split. Anyway, just an observation, Pamela. 

 06:28
Pamela Sams
Exactly. 

 06:31
Charlie Van Derven
We talk about the training that comes with working with the prominent firms and that's such a valuable thing that happens there. When you went independent, like to Voya and then later to Jackson Sam's with securities in America, was that difficult to leave that kind of constrained, kind of defined environment and, oh my gosh, now I can kind of do what I want to do. Was that a difficult place to be? How did you make that transition? 

 06:59
Pamela Sams
I wouldn't say difficult, just different. What you would be used to in a structured environment, like being captive, all of a sudden, now you're independent and you can shape it any way you want to, and so you get autonomy. It gives you that kind of direction. You start to look at it like, how do I really craft it or build it as well? So I explained it to people. It's like a kid in a candy store because now you have so many options available to you. With kids in the candy store, eventually you'll get a sweet tooth or cavity somewhere because you just start grabbing everything off the shelf. You can do that as an independent, is that everybody is at your door I can offer you this or I can offer you that. How do I really develop kind of my tech stack? The products and services you do want to offer. 

 07:59
Pamela Sams
You're being more, I wouldn't say exclusive, but you're choosing the right things that would be able to provide for your clients instead of just kind of getting everything that's available to you. Because in this industry you can just buy all kind of shiny objects and say, oh, that sounds great, but you never use it. Like I said, being independent, you'll get a lot of people at your door on the different things that you can provide to your clients or introduce to your practice. You do have to be selective at that point on what works for you and what also works for your clients. 

 08:39
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, no doubt. I think coming out of that environment, like an ameriprise environment where the tools that you use are pretty well defined, it would be a kid in a candy store. I mean, that's an exciting moment, right? Look at all the in a mere prize like any other firm like that invests in technologies as a capital investment versus an open market that's just always progressing and always moving. Some of what you get in front of you is like, wow, that's awesome. You always have to ask yourself, is this something that's actually good for the practice of my client? Great that it can do cartwheels and 360s, but is that what the practice needs, and is that what the client needs? 

 09:18
Pamela Sams
Yes. It takes a while to evaluate those things as well, and I have a lot of what I call client ambassadors or kind of this advisory board that I can bounce ideas off of as well. It's like, okay, I'm thinking about this new tool. Would you use it? Do you think it would be helpful? I introduce some new tools that way as well, because if I get some response that doesn't seem that useful or I probably won't use it too much, then you don't want to spend your wheels or spend your money on it, either if you don't have your clients that will be engaged with that. 

 09:54
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah. Got to keep budgets in mind. All right, so usually, Pamela, I ask a few questions at the end of our interviews, and I'm going to ask them in a different order today. Okay. I usually ask and this is going to be my second question I usually ask what you do well in that transition. Right. I'm going to ask this in reverse. The second question, which is the first today is when you look back on the transitions you've made from Ameriprise to Voya. Now, with Jackson Sam's, is there anything that you think you might have done differently? 

 10:28
Pamela Sams
I probably would have hired a lot quicker because sometimes, interesting, you can wear a lot of different hats when you're mostly captive. With some of the larger firms, like I was with Ameriprise, you do have kind of a team around you. When you hop out, it's kind of really hard because now it's just you, and then you have to figure out staffing and do you want to wear all the hats? That's what I would have done differently was hire probably a lot sooner instead of wearing the hats for a few years and then trying to figure everything out because that eventually stunts your growth as well. A lot of times people will figure, I can't afford to hire anybody, but you can't afford not to, really, because then you will hit what I call bandwidth at some point that you're not able to wear all hats and then be efficient as well. 

 11:20
Pamela Sams
That's one thing I would have done higher quicker. 

 11:25
Charlie Van Derven
Any advisor I've ever worked with has always had to right size, and that can mean a bunch of different things, right? It might be moving on from some clients that you can't service or they're too small for you to give the attention to. That can mean expanding your team with a junior advisor to take those smaller clients, a client associate. You're not the only one to make that mention. That's a recurring theme as you try to do it all. Now, you mentioned you had two kids when you were going for your MBA, so I know you got family at home while you're trying to do it all. 

 12:03
Pamela Sams
Yeah, exactly. 

 12:04
Charlie Van Derven
So that's a great piece of advice. Now, the reason I asked that something you do differently, which is usually the second question, is because I know we want to talk about niche. You said something really cool when we got acquainted last week. You said, I'm not an advisor for professional women or newly single women. You said, I'm the advisor for professionals. So I want to expand on that. Of course, there's other advisors that serve that industry, maybe not too many right in your backyard, or serve that niche. I should say. Not industry, maybe not right in your backyard, Pamela, but certainly that's a fairly popular, I would say, target. What makes you the advisor versus an advisor. 

 12:58
Pamela Sams
Yeah, exactly. I don't want to sound arrogant when I say that, but when you become the advisor is that your audience, what their concerns are, what their worries are. You see, kind of my background here is all about swans. You go to my website, I call it Swan Success. Swan stands for Sleep Well at Night, but it's also an acronym which means transforming what I call ugly duckling financial situations into beautiful financial swans. What I found out, Charles, earlier when I made the transition from becoming independent, because when you're fairly captive, you take everybody because you have to. You can run your practice, but then when you come independent, this is where I want to build it and get back to where my mission originally was really to help women single by choice, divorce and widowed. So I was able to do that. As you're speaking to them, you understand what their concerns are, what they're focused in on with their finances. 

 14:06
Pamela Sams
Earlier on, what I saw, it was mostly email messages that I would come back to the office in the morning, and the timestamps were 12:00 01:00 02:00, which meant they're obviously up at night not worried about their finances. That's kind of why I wanted to be the advisor, to help them sleep well at night, knowing that we're working together as a team, as a partnership, to get them to their goals and then really knowing what their concerns are and then looking forward, anticipating what their life is going to be like. If it's a young family, at some point they may get remarried, then that comes into play. Or if they have children, if they age, if they remain single, what's that going to look like in retirement? On to legacy planning, what's that going to look like from a long term care standpoint? Who's going to care for them? 

 14:58
Pamela Sams
All of these things, I need to know and introduce those areas and then be there as the advisor to give them advice on an ongoing basis for those particular areas that they need to focus in on. 

 15:13
Charlie Van Derven
That is so awesome. I'm going to share a story real quick. I am a huge advocate of knowing your niche and owning your niche. I think that it's difficult for a lot of people because it means you're removing a large portion of the population, right? Sometimes those are clients that don't fit that. It's okay to have a niche and have clients that don't fit that niche. You got to communicate with those clients when they see your website and it's focused on somebody other than them. I will tell you, pamela I started Social Advisors in 2013, self funded. We did not have a large savings account. It was basically asking my wife to give me 60 days permission. If it didn't work like I thought it would work, I would go get a job. Don't worry about it. I mean, I'll take care of the family. 

 16:03
Charlie Van Derven
So it worked out okay. We're nine years later, we still haven't had to go find that job yet. So it's worked out okay. I'll tell you, as a self funded business, in the beginning, our whole objective was financial services. The neighbor has a restaurant and can you do something? And then his buddy's got a bar. Can you help us out with some kind? And my friend's got a car dealership. All of a sudden, you've got dozens of clients that are all different, which means it really takes more energy to serve them, because when you've got similar needs, you can certainly be more efficient with what you're providing. It wasn't until 2018, five years later, that we got really focused again. I don't know if you have the same experience, but it was such a huge difference for our business efficiency. It costs less to run the business. 

 17:01
Charlie Van Derven
Our brand built with a specific audience instead of being saturated with everybody. I don't know if you have experience that it really propelled our business quite a bit. 

 17:12
Pamela Sams
Oh, yeah, definitely. Because then, like you said, you are speaking to that audience. My branding, all of my social media, everything is targeted to that group. Not to say I still have some guys in my practice. I've recently taken on another guy who reached out, him and his wife. We work together as well because I know a lot of times when people go to my website. He called me he was like, I saw your website. Can you still work with me even though I'm not part of your target market and I don't turn anybody away in that aspect, but like you said, you don't want to be too splattered around. I call it kind of the sniper shot versus kind of the shotgun approach, because then that way you're not speaking to one particular audience. I do a lot of marketing on LinkedIn and connections that way. 

 18:07
Pamela Sams
My profile is optimized to the group, the target market that I have. A lot of people come to me and say, well, how are you so successful on LinkedIn? Because my message is specifically for the professional woman who is in this demographic, and the wording and the language that I'm using is resonating with them. That's how people come to you because you're speaking their language. 

 18:33
Charlie Van Derven
Now, if you're listening to this on Spotify, on a listening platform, you can't see me applauding Pamela. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see that I'm applauding Pamela. That's like in marketing your practice. Anybody who's out there is wondering about marketing, listen to Pamela's advice. It is so good. So kudos. So I saved that as the good. I wasn't going to let you anything else, Pamela. I was going to pigeonhole you right into choosing that niche as you're good. Tell me about the goals for Jackson Sam's as adding clients, of course, expanding your team at all if we have listeners that maybe your message resonates if they want to reach out to you. 

 19:12
Pamela Sams
Oh, yeah, definitely. Continuing to grow my practice through acquiring clients and a lot of it's by referral. Now, I still do a lot of speaking, so I do like to go out and talk to people about the benefits of financial planning and financial wellness for women. I do a lot of speaking there. I am adding on a junior advisor fairly soon, probably within the next few months and recently at a conference. People had talked to me about maybe succession planning or acquiring practices. I'm exploring a variety of different things. 

 19:49
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, very cool. If we've got any listeners that want to reach out, is that okay? If they do, would you be a resource to them? 

 19:57
Pamela Sams
Oh, yeah, definitely. Wonderful. I'm always willing to talk to people. I have several mentees right now yeah. That I am mentoring female advisors. It's not a lot of us in this industry, contrary to popular belief, it's probably about 13% in financial services that are women. It has always been my passion to help women with their finances, but also mentor other female advisors in the industry. 

 20:25
Charlie Van Derven
Wonderful. This gives me an opportunity for maybe to plug with you. I don't even think we chatted about this opportunity to give kudos to my friend Cheryl Hickerson at Females in Finance. I don't know if you know cheryl. 

 20:36
Pamela Sams
But I do know Cheryl. 

 20:38
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, Cheryl's a buddy. She's awesome. She was on a webinar with us a couple of months ago, so I always love to promote that organization. Oh, yes, he's doing a great job really bringing a community together. So that's very cool. So, Pamela, what is the best way for someone to reach you? 

 20:54
Pamela Sams
Yes, so they can go to my website, it's Jacksonsams.com, so you see it on my little graphic there. Jacksonsams.com is the best way to do it. I'm also on social media at Jackson sam's wealth on Facebook and Instagram. If anybody's still on Twitter, hopefully Jackson Sam's WS, because they limit those characters. That's Jackson Sam's WS on Twitter and then at Jackson Sam's wealth on Instagram and Facebook. 

 21:26
Charlie Van Derven
Awesome. I know that you're very active on LinkedIn. 

 21:30
Pamela Sams
That's how we and I am very active on LinkedIn. So, yes, you can definitely reach me there to Pamela Sam. Pamela Jsams. I believe it's on LinkedIn, but yes, and I post a lot of good content as well. I do have several conferences that I am speaking at that coming up for people who are in the industry. If you're in the Chicago area, I'm speaking at the Retirement Income Summit in April. All right. If you're in DC, I also have the Women in Technology Summit that I'll be talking about some emerging technology in the wealth management space as well. 

 22:06
Charlie Van Derven
Very cool. Now, Pamela, I got to ask you before I let you go, you mentioned a couple of those mentees. I won't bring any names or any firms into it, but with large firms who do not have the flexibility that you have. How does that go when you know that they're in a position where they're limited into the service they can provide? Is that frustrating for you? 

 22:31
Pamela Sams
It is. I try to work within the framework that they have. A few of them are independent, so they're really just who have came from a captive situation. Definitely kind of your target audience as well. One particularly came from Edward Jones, and so that was of tricky because then again, a kid in a candy store and not knowing or getting the proper direction as well, being independent, because a lot of it's done there. I think the philosophy is a lot different as well from that particular firm on how you market yourself. It was a whole different kind of mindset shift that you have to go through going independent. I try to work with people in the framework that they have, because if you're growing a practice and you're growing a practice, it's really just how do you work within the means that you have and then eventually maybe exploring becoming independent down the road? 

 23:28
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, that's awesome. That's the evolution of it, right? Everybody's on a path. It's the departure from those firms that are so difficult. Yes, the kid in the candy store. But, oh, you still got to worry about what that exactly what that movement looks like, too. So, Pamela, you've been an awesome guest. I want to thank you so much again for taking time today to speak with us. 

 23:48
Pamela Sams
Yes, thank you very much for having me. Once again, Charles, it's always a pleasure to speak with other fellow advisors. Really, we're out here doing our thing and trying to grow our practice one client at a time. Sometimes we look like we're in a silo sometimes, especially if people are solo practitioners. I like going to industry conferences because you get a lot of good ideas and platforms like this. You also get a lot of good ideas and build a network of people who can help. 

 24:19
Charlie Van Derven
That's right. That's awesome. Great advice, Pamela. You just keep giving it. 

 24:23
Pamela Sams
Thank you. 

 24:24
Charlie Van Derven
On behalf of Pamela Sam's and her firm Jacksonsams in Metro DC. Check her out@jacksonsams.com. If you got any questions for Pamela I've only known her a little time, but I can tell she's awesome. I love the advice has been wonderful. If you've got any questions for Pamela, be sure to reach out to her. On behalf of Pamela Sam's and myself, Charlie van Durban, thank you for tuning into another episode of RAA collective. Now, we don't have huge budgets because we actually haven't really worried about Soliciting sponsorship or anything like that. We would love for you to help us reach more people if you give us a review, share us on your favorite listening platform, and, of course, just tell others about us if you think they could use the advice. Please do. Pamela, once again, thank you very much. To our listeners, thank you for tuning into another episode of RIA collective. 

 25:14
Pamela Sams
Yeah, thank you very much, Charles.