What began as a bespoke wedding gift service has now grown into a multi-million dollar business in the gifting industry hitting the Inc 5000 list in 2022.
Veteran-owned, women-led, and 100% bootstrapped— a true rags to riches story. With an eye for curating beautiful goods to supporting other small businesses and now leading a team of 75+ “teakettes”, today on the show we have someone I believe we can all look up to, Torrance Hart, founder of Teak & Twine Gift Boxes.
WILDFLOWER SHOWNOTES : shannaskidmore.com/torrance-hart
📌 RESOURCES MENTIONED:
What began as a bespoke wedding gift service has now grown into a multi-million dollar business in the gifting industry hitting the Inc 5000 list in 2022.
Veteran-owned, women-led, and 100% bootstrapped— a true rags to riches story. With an eye for curating beautiful goods to supporting other small businesses and now leading a team of 75+ “teakettes”, today on the show we have someone I believe we can all look up to, Torrance Hart, founder of Teak & Twine Gift Boxes.
WILDFLOWER SHOWNOTES : shannaskidmore.com/torrance-hart
📌 RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Torrance (00:00:00):
I had a bride, I'd made her five bridesmaid gifts and she came back a month later and said, Hey, you made my bridesmaid gifts, and that was great, but actually I work at Microsoft and I was wondering if you might be able to make 300 holiday gifts for us. And I was like, yes, I absolutely will. And I got to the end of that year without even trying completely marketing myself as weddings, weddings, weddings, only weddings. I looked back and hundreds of orders had made up $70,000 that we'd made in that first six months.
Shanna (00:00:36):
You are listening to Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast episode 60. What began as a bespoke wedding gift service has now grown into a multimillion dollar business in the gifting industry, hitting the Ink of 5,000 list in 2022, veteran-owned, woman led, and a hundred percent bootstrapped a true rags to riches story with an eye for curating beautiful gifts to supporting other small businesses and leading a team of 75 plus tkes. Today on the show we have Torrance Hart, founder of Tecan Twine gift boxes. I have had the honor and privilege of working with Torrance since the early days and can attest she is even more wonderful in person than you imagine her to be online. Now, I normally don't read student testimonials on the podcast, but I wanted you to hear what Torrance said after taking the blueprint model course one aha moment that completely changed the trajectory of her business.
(00:01:25):
After implementing the 80 20 rule, something I teach all of my students inside the course, Torrance said, I realized that spending more time building networks with our corporate clients versus trying to land another wedding client was key. Okay, so I'm playing a little game of clue here, but I want you to listen how this one nugget changed everything for the future of teak and twine. If you dig, professional bios here goes after eight years in the Air Force. Torrance Hart knew she wanted to launch a business, but she didn't know which one. After considering everything from a food truck to a gym that charges people for not going, instead of going, she landed on gift boxes. Tecan Twine launched in 2015 and since then has been lucky enough to create hundreds of thousands of corporate gift boxes for clients like Google, Microsoft Meta, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and Shani Skidmore.
(00:02:10):
In 2022, they launched Te and Twine Kiting and Fulfillment, where they team up with fast-growing e-commerce and Amazon brands and do all of their making, building, shipping and fulfillment. Her favorite part of this whole entrepreneurship ride though has been in creating and building a great place to work for the 75 plus Tekes who called TE and Twine Home every day. Alright, formal introductions over, let's dive in. Hey, it's Shanna and this is Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast. For the past 15 plus years, I've had the honor to hear thousands of stories from entrepreneurs around the world. As a former Fortune 100 financial advisor, turn business consultant, I have a unique opportunity to see the reel. Behind the highlight reel. I'm talking profit and loss statements, unpaid taxes, moments of burnout, and those of utter victory. Or as my husband says, the content, everyone is wondering, but not many are talking. And now I'm bringing these private conversations to you. Hear the untold stories of how industry leaders, founders, and up and coming entrepreneurs got their start, the experiences that shaped them and the journey to building the brands they have today. Stories that will inspire and reignite encourage to redefine success and build a life in business on your own terms. Welcome Wildflower. I'm so glad you're here. Hi Torrance, and welcome to the show.
Torrance (00:03:22):
Hi Shannon. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited about our chat today.
Shanna (00:03:27):
How has it been? Five, has it really been five years since we've gotten to catch up? I mean, it was probably what, 2018? Yeah,
Torrance (00:03:34):
It I know very well when it was because the last time I saw you was at your amazing conference. I was lucky enough to be a speaker and talk about hiring and I remember vividly because I was like eight and a half months pregnant, so much so that I was like paper ventilating on you guys. Brought me a chair to sit down in and it was just unforgettable. Yeah, my son was born three weeks later and
Shanna (00:04:02):
He
Torrance (00:04:02):
Was almost I, oh my goodness. Unbelievable.
Shanna (00:04:07):
So, okay, he's going to start kindergarten next year.
Torrance (00:04:10):
Yes, he is. He's so ready. You know how second siblings, they've watched it all happen. They've taken Big Brother, big Sister to the bus stop 10,000 times and they're just like, oh yeah, I'm ready. Get me on that bus with all my friends.
Shanna (00:04:27):
Are you ready, mama? Are you ready?
Torrance (00:04:31):
No. Yeah, yeah. I am so in love with four year olds and I'm only hoping that what everyone tells me that every age is the very best is true because 4, 5, 6 is just absolutely a dream to me.
Shanna (00:04:51):
How old? So you have two?
Torrance (00:04:53):
Yeah,
Shanna (00:04:54):
I have
Torrance (00:04:54):
A six year old and an almost five year old.
Shanna (00:04:57):
Okay, so your six year old is in kindergarten?
Torrance (00:05:00):
Yeah, he's in first grade.
Shanna (00:05:02):
But
Torrance (00:05:02):
Just that beautiful age where they get in the car by themselves and buckle themselves in, but still just want to be snuggled in your lap 24 7.
Shanna (00:05:13):
That sounds so fantastic. Okay, Madeline. My daughter's two and a half. She is so cute. And it's funny that you say that about every age is your favorite because you're like, oh, time slowed down. But I'm like, I don't want her to stop. I love two and a half, I love two I love, there's good and there's heart about everything, but right now her personality is so big and she is so funny and just the things that she said and they're sweet innocence. It's just it is the cutest. So we live, we're in Tennessee now and in the fall we have Stinkbugs. Do you stinkbugs where you are?
Torrance (00:05:51):
No, but it sounds like a blast
Shanna (00:05:54):
As a whole thing. It's kind of like a skunk, but in a bug form. So I mean, they don't smell that bad, but you don't mess with them. They stink. Okay. So we have them. They're attracted to your house or something. I don't really know. But anyways, Madeline is hilarious because she's like the girliest girl. She wears tuts from the moment she wakes up till the moment she goes to bed, but she's really into bugs. And so the other day she said, mommy, I love Stinkbugs. And I was like, okay. I mean that
Torrance (00:06:24):
Is
Shanna (00:06:24):
Awesome. That's how you can debate. So I don't know, they're just so much fun. But anyways, okay, we can sit and catch up all day long. I'm glad we have 45 minutes.
Torrance (00:06:33):
Me too.
Shanna (00:06:34):
To spin together. I've missed you, but will you just tell everybody, I know we did an intro before we got started, but tell everybody who you are, what company you have, and just a little bit of background on you.
Torrance (00:06:46):
Yes, absolutely. So I was in the Air Force for eight years after college. I was a finance officer. What
Shanna (00:06:55):
Up? Finances. Love it. That's right.
Torrance (00:06:58):
Then I did Intel for four years, and then about seven years into my commitment, when I had one more year to go, I knew I wanted to start a business because actually I should back up a little bit because what I really wanted to do, and I'm all about the life plan, is get out of the Air Force, get my MBA and go work for a fancy company.
Shanna (00:07:25):
And
Torrance (00:07:26):
Then I met a really cute pilot in the Air Force and he totally ruined my plan, Shanna,
Shanna (00:07:35):
Come on.
Torrance (00:07:37):
So now I needed a job that I could take with me from place to place because he could get stationed at anywhere in the country. And I was like, what do I do? What do I do? This is my life plan. And after a lot of hemming and hawing, I realized, you know what, okay, I'm just going to skip business school. I'm going to read a bunch of books. I'm going to listen to every podcast. Actually there were no podcasts. So I just had to read all the books
Shanna (00:08:03):
At
Torrance (00:08:04):
That point and I'm just going to figure out, I'm going to start a business. One small detail had no idea what business to start, but super committed to the idea of starting business.
Shanna (00:08:15):
Got it.
Torrance (00:08:15):
And let's see, my first idea was I was going to start a food truck. I am not even a very good cook. This was a terrible idea. Then I was going to start a gym that charged people for not going instead of going,
Shanna (00:08:30):
That's fantastic. Okay.
Torrance (00:08:32):
Honestly, someone listening, steal that idea. I still think that it could totally work.
Shanna (00:08:38):
Oh yeah.
Torrance (00:08:38):
And then I was going to be a wedding planner because I had done some event planning in the Air Force, and then I looked at the industry and I was like, oh my gosh, there's so many talented people and I don't know if I can bring anything new to this. But I noticed in doing my research on wedding planners and the wedding industry, that a lot of weddings were doing wedding welcome gifts and doing these beautiful boxes for all of their guests. And at the time, there didn't seem to be a company that was just focusing on the boxes.
Shanna (00:09:15):
So
Torrance (00:09:15):
I was like, this is what I'll do. I'm going to do wedding welcome gifts, I'm going to connect with all the wedding planners, and I'm going to sell them wedding boxes to brides, which is hilarious because eight years later we're doing something completely different and I can't wait to dive into that. But yeah, that's me. My husband's out of the air force now, so we're both settled in what was our original home, which is right outside Washington DC in Northern Virginia. And it feels amazing to just put down roots to be close to our parents and siblings to be able to invest in a team and know that I won't have to move in three years. But it was really cool looking back, and I've said this to my husband, this is my dream job. I'm so glad I didn't go to business school and join a company. And so one of those beautiful all turned out the way it was supposed to be. Moments.
Shanna (00:10:16):
Yeah. Oh my goodness. I can't believe it's only been eight years. It feels like, I don't know if it feels like this to you, but it feels like longer. You've always been, and I can't believe it's only been eight years you guys grew, I think so quickly. And the idea caught on. So like wildfire, I feel like from an outsider looking in and I don't know. Wow. So yeah, eight years. So eight years ago is when you got out and started your own business. So was it right when you left the Air Force that you were like, okay, I'm all in. Where were you all located at the time? So I'm thinking what that was 2015?
Torrance (00:10:55):
Exactly.
Shanna (00:10:56):
Okay.
Torrance (00:10:57):
Yes. I'm so glad you asked because it's so hard to make that transition from when does my side hustle become my full-time hustle? And we were in Destin, Florida at the time in the panhandle of Florida, and I knew I had one more year in the Air Force when I launched the business. So I launched the business and I was still active duty. And in retrospect, it was awesome because I had this time period where I was like, I have one year to make this business replace my current salary. So I had this set time period and this very specific goal and my mind and what I would do is I would wake up early, I would do a little bit of work, then I would go to my Air Force job. My one employee who's still with me would let herself into my empty house at 9:00 AM or whatever. She'd work all day there. I'd come home at five, we'd talk and catch up for half an hour, and then I'd keep working until late in the night. So we did that for about 10 months, and then I got out and joined her and was able to replace my salary pretty much like the day that I left the Air Force, which of course I don't think is an accident.
(00:12:21):
You kind of see it coming and in some ways you can make it happen.
Shanna (00:12:26):
There's so much beauty in having kind of the comfort and security of a paycheck while you're growing. It probably allowed you to do things in the business that you wouldn't have been able to do otherwise because you needed the income. Maybe you were able to gift more or send out. You didn't have to take the income as much from the business in the beginning. So I wonder, I always think that year is so helpful or having, I know when people have a full-time job, it's like, oh, I have so many time constraints on growing my business. But at the same time, not having the financial pressure has its perks too. So tell me about Torrance, those early days. So gift boxing, putting together these beautiful gift boxes. How did you figure out your marketing and your pricing and curating the gifts? Just talk me through the early days of the business.
Torrance (00:13:20):
I love it. So when I started, my plan was to reach out to wedding planners, introduce myself and see if they had any brides. So I picked up an issue of Martha Stewart weddings and they had top 70 wedding planners in the country,
(00:13:37):
And you're super familiar. And I made a list of them and I basically, I don't want to say knew everything. I really studied these wedding planners. I followed them all on Instagram. I went to their blogs. I was looking at their weddings. I was looking at who was working with where they were located. And so I reached out to almost all of them to introduce myself and the business. And my email to them was so specific, I was really talking about what I had noticed they were doing, how their weddings now were different than a year ago. I saw an Instagram that you have a styled shoot coming up, can I send you a gift? And that tactic really worked, but in a kind of different way than I thought because none of them had any brides who wanted wedding welcome gifts. Actually, one of them did. But all of them were like, oh, this is an interesting idea. I'll keep it in my back pocket. Can you make client gifts for me
Shanna (00:14:45):
To
Torrance (00:14:45):
Send to brides as I onboard them
Shanna (00:14:48):
And
Torrance (00:14:48):
Wedding photographers the same? And was like never thought of that idea. Had no idea that was a thing. And that really took off. And so I worked with some brides and then some planners on their client gifts. And then I still remember that first year I was really making 10, selling 10 gifts at a time, five gifts at a time. And I had a bride. I'd made her five bridesmaid gifts, and she came back a month later and said, Hey, you made my bridesmaid gifts. And that was great, but actually I work at Microsoft and I was wondering if you might be able to make 300 holiday gifts for us.
Shanna (00:15:26):
Stop it.
Torrance (00:15:27):
I know.
Shanna (00:15:28):
Yes, I
Torrance (00:15:28):
Will. Of course. Yes, I absolutely will. And I got to the end of that year without even trying completely marketing myself as weddings, weddings, weddings, only weddings. I looked back and hundreds of orders had made up $70,000 that we'd made in that first six months. And three corporate orders had made up 33% of our money in that first year. I read about Pareto's principle, which I know you've talked about, but should I can give a brief thing.
Shanna (00:16:03):
So
Torrance (00:16:04):
I know that you talk about this in Blueprint, I think it's one of the most powerful ideas in business. And basically Plato's principle or the 80 20 rule states that 80% of your revenue is going to come from 20% of your clients. And this is actually true in so many ways. Like 80, so many of your calories come from 20% of foods you eat. It's crazy the number of ways that
Shanna (00:16:28):
80% of results, 20% of time. Yeah,
Torrance (00:16:31):
Exactly.
Shanna (00:16:32):
Love this principle
Torrance (00:16:33):
So much. And I looked at that. I looked at where the money was coming from, and I just said, okay, I'm going to have to think more about this corporate gifting thing because I really just had an idea that it was not creative, that it was boring, that it just was the opposite of what I was trying to do, which is create this beautiful, authentic, handmade business. But then I kept being surprised because my corporate clients were super creative. They gave me tons of free reign. They were actually very interested in small business products and beautifully curated items and amazing food by small makers that I'd found a lot of my assumptions about corporate Grifting turned out to be wrong. And of course, if you looked at the numbers, it was pretty clear what I should do early on. And so looking back, our revenue from corporate gifting started at like 30%. The next year was 45%, the next year was 65%. And then I think it went up to like 85 or something like that. So today it's like 99, 90
Shanna (00:17:39):
9% corporate gifting for large corporations, or do you include small businesses who are doing client gifts?
Torrance (00:17:48):
Okay, great question. So we have four different streams of income. The first is what we call DTC direct to consumer. It's where we have an online shop that sells gifts and folks who want a small number or one birthday gift for their mom or one gift to send to a client or anything like that can go to our shop and buy a gift and we ship it out within two days. That makes up 8% of our revenue
Shanna (00:18:17):
Today. I'm digging these numbers. Yes. Give them to me. I love that. Okay. Direct to consumer.
Torrance (00:18:23):
Yes. Then we have corporate gifting, which is company contacting us, working with an account manager is what we call them, a gift designer, a member of our sales team who listens to what they're looking for, looks at their branding, looks at their budget, designs a custom gift for them. And that has a minimum of 40 plus because of that customization. 40
Shanna (00:18:52):
Plus boxes.
Torrance (00:18:53):
Exactly.
(00:18:55):
And that makes up 85% of our revenue. And then whatever that last piece of the pie is that I haven't accounted for, comes from a new income stream that we just started this year called Kidding and Fulfillment, which is where we team up with e-commerce businesses. Really anyone with a Shopify site or someone who sells something on Amazon, they sell a product that requires some level of boxing kit, assembly, bagging, making, and we do all of their labor and we fulfill all of their orders on Amazon and Shopify and everything so that they can be the sales and marketing part of their business. And we basically in-house the operations. And so that is currently only about whatever it is, eight to 10% of our revenue, but it's growing like gangbusters.
Shanna (00:19:53):
Oh, I bet. So it's like elevated drop shipping. So it's like truly outsourcing elevated packaging to you. I mean, because all packaging is. So speaking of how gorgeous, I mean, how did you figure out your packaging and curating your gifts and pricing these beautiful boxes, assuming in the beginning was it all custom, anytime someone would reach out, they were getting a fully customized box from you?
Torrance (00:20:26):
Exactly. I think this is something that a lot of people will be nodding their heads at this. So we made an online store that had a ton of different combinations of beautiful gifts at different price points, and yet the vast majority of people were sending me an email with a yes, but I see this gift, but my mom's, I was hoping to make something like this. Can you design something for me custom? And of course, that first year, I mean you say yes to everything, and I was doing multiple rounds of revisions to sell $120 gift to someone. And it was great because it was like I needed those reps, I needed the practice, and I also needed some time to get the pricing wrong. And then, and I would rather do that on smaller orders, right?
Shanna (00:21:20):
Exactly. Yeah.
Torrance (00:21:21):
So in the beginning, I thought I could just add up the cost of all of the items in the box. The retail costs like $20 candle plus $10 chocolate bar, this box costs $30. And then I soon realized, okay, I really need to count for packaging. Duh.
Shanna (00:21:42):
Yeah. Credit card fees shipping,
Torrance (00:21:46):
Right? Like, oh, well, it actually does take me a lot of time to make each of these gifts. I wonder if I should take that into account, which didn't become real until I hired my first employee was helping me put the boxes together. And then I was like, oh, yeah, I'm going to need to add some money to this for the labor. And so now it's basically a formula of retail price of all the products added together. And this formula has really stuck for the past eight years with very little revisions, retail price of all the products with a small percentage fee added to account for the cost of shipping the product from the vendor to us, plus the cost of packaging with about a 50% margin added on, and plus the cost of labor.
Shanna (00:22:35):
Yeah. Yeah. Oh my goodness. You are speaking my language. Thanks for sharing all that. I think that's so incredible just to even give yourself the room to, I love how you said you needed the reps. You needed to give yourself the space to be like, oh, that didn't work, or this did. And so often I think it's that time that people don't see that. They don't see you invested in all the things that maybe didn't go exactly right as to why it can be so streamlined now. So will you talk through, it sounds like you hired someone your first year. I mean, while you were still at the Air Force, will you just talk through the growth of the company and of growing a team was something that has been such a big piece of your story and that we got to talk about at our last conference, which was so fun. And you were only in year three then, and I feel like you already had an incredible team. So we just talked through the growth and what went well as you got bigger, what were some of the hard lessons learned?
Torrance (00:23:36):
I could talk forever about this. Yes. So the first year, we launched the business in April, and by the end of that first year, we'd made $90,000 on
Shanna (00:23:50):
Roughly $125 box. Like a hundred, a 50 bucks.
Torrance (00:23:54):
Exactly. That's a lot. Transactions, three corporate orders that were like 30,000, 20,000, 15,000, and then a zillion mosquito bites to make up the rest of that chunk. So I knew I needed help because you just literally can't make that many boxes. And plus I was working full time. So one part is luckily the business was able to start making money, not profit, but money pretty quickly after it started. And two is we are living in Destin, Florida near the water, not on the water, but half a mile away. So I rented one of our rooms in our house out on Airbnb, which was then a pretty new platform and reinvested all the Airbnb money into the business.
Shanna (00:24:45):
Wow.
Torrance (00:24:47):
So we were making about 5,000 a month on renting the Airbnb room. We were just so Lucky's incredible, a tourist area. It was crazy and reinvesting all of that back into the business. So that really helped me make big scary moves, like hiring that first person for sure. I think for the first couple of years I was extremely cautious about hiring. I wouldn't hire someone unless we were making more than enough to pay for that person, unless I could justify that that person's job was going to allow me to make that much more money with them on. And I think on the one hand, of course, it allowed us to be more profitable and all this help me sleep at night. I'm sure. I mean, this is something everyone has to balance.
(00:25:43):
In hindsight, I was definitely too conservative about hiring those first two years. I kept doing so many things myself that now that the second you hire someone and you see how much better that person is at doing something than you, and how much more you can focus on this other thing and how they're able to just think of a million different ideas. I don't know. There is something to the plant growing to the size of the pot. Of course you want to stay. It has to be sustainable. So as much as I'm saying this, of course it has to be about balance and you want to keep your company profitable and all this. But I think I got braver about hiring in around 2020 I started, which for me means hiring someone if I could see on the horizon that I was really going to need this person.
Shanna (00:26:36):
Yes. Not waiting until it was almost too late. You're desperate.
Torrance (00:26:41):
Exactly.
Shanna (00:26:41):
Yeah,
Torrance (00:26:42):
Exactly. So, oh, I think we're going to have this level of growth. We're going to need another person in order to achieve that. If I hire them now, I'll have time to hire someone. I'll have time to train them by this time in the future that I really need them. They'll be fully trained up, and that's scary. But if you can do it, I've just seen it really work. That being said, everyone has to stay within their comfort level for sure. And we still have contractors and part-time. I'm a big fan of that too. It makes sense for a ton of businesses.
Shanna (00:27:21):
Yeah. Would you say Torrance, looking back there were any major pivots or shifts, I mean, other than what you've talked about in the beginning, realizing, oh wow, corporate gifting and your original idea of bridal gifts didn't work, but any other pivots and shifts you've seen as you have grown, whether that be how you're pricing your boxes or how you're finding suppliers or goods, any kind of standout moments for you that were really turning points in the business?
Torrance (00:27:52):
Yes. I'm so glad that you sent this question beforehand so I could really think about it. And I think that it was when we started using EOS. Oh my gosh. Are any EOS dorks out there in the audience? I'm sure there are. If so, send me an email so that we can dork out together. Okay. EOS stands for the Entrepreneurial Operating System. It is just as dorky as it sounds, and it's amazing. It's as close to magic as I've encountered in business. It basically forces you to sit down as a team, think about where you want the company to be in 10 years and say, okay, well, based on that vision, where do we need to be in three years? And based on that, where do we need to be in one year? And based on that, what do we need to accomplish each quarter?
Shanna (00:28:45):
Yeah,
Torrance (00:28:46):
Okay, great. And each quarter, okay, we want to accomplish these 20 things, what person is accountable for each of those 20 things? So there's not this vagueness about, oh, we didn't hit this metric, and everyone's kind of looking around the room at each other who didn't do the thing. But it's not about blame, it's about accountability and transparency and just clarity. So EOS was recommended to me in, let's see, 2019 ish.
Shanna (00:29:20):
So four years in.
Torrance (00:29:22):
Is this a book,
Shanna (00:29:23):
Torrance or?
Torrance (00:29:24):
Yes. Okay. So the author, Gina Wickham wrote a book called Traction.
Shanna (00:29:29):
Okay, okay.
Torrance (00:29:30):
Yes, yes. Traction describes how to run EOS. And then once you read that book, you can read a bunch of other ones that go deeper into any of the things,
Shanna (00:29:44):
And
Torrance (00:29:45):
It's just fantastic. There's nothing in this book that you're going to be like, wow, I never thought of that before. But it's systematized. They tell you exactly what to do, and then you should have a weekly meeting and it should be formatted in such and such way, and the following people should attend, and you should ask yourself these seven questions. It just gives you the blueprint. Right. I had this weird feeling, this false belief before EOSI was like, the military was so stringent, we had all these rules in my company. It's just going to be beautiful and organic and free flowing with no chain of command. Oh gosh, no meetings. Everyone hates meetings. So I'm never going to have any of those, and we're just going to run on vibes. And so I had some resistance to EOS because I was like, EOS is going to kill the vibe. Yeah, the vibe matters, and it totally does. But the funny thing is my team's response where they were like, oh, great, I finally know what my job is, what I'm accountable for, what I'm not accountable for, what you expect from me, what success means, all of this.
(00:31:06):
So it's been a really interesting journey, but I think that was the turning point because it's started just professionalizing the organization and I felt more accountable to my teammates. I had to get stuff done because we got a meeting every Thursday where I said I was going to do something, so now I'm going to do it. And it allowed us to all sit there and go, dang, we're growing pretty quickly. Where do you think we could be in three years and just throw out these crazy audacious goals and then go, wait a second. Oh my gosh, we just hit that goal, but on purpose this time.
Shanna (00:31:44):
Oh, I love that.
Torrance (00:31:45):
And that has felt just incredible, a real shift in the business pre EOS and Post.
Shanna (00:31:52):
I love how you're sharing Torrance. I am so blessed. I get to sit down with so many organizations and of course talk about money and projections and numbers, all of those very important things. But I always say as entrepreneurs, we're not often equipped with the business side of running a business, especially finance and numbers, where we're also not equipped as leaders, or not equipped is the wrong word, but you become a leader when you hire a team, you are then in charge of running an organization. And that's something that has to be learned and taught. And so I've talked to so many entrepreneurs who feel like you were saying kind of, I want to be the cool boss and you can come and go as you please. But I honestly feel like we all thrive just children in some. And I think making it so I love hearing when you were able to set clear expectations and how it allowed your employees to then rise to the occasion or thrive themselves. And it is just kind of this backwards. We feel like rules are going to make it kill the vibe, but in fact, I think it oftentimes helps people, the right rules. Of course, the right leadership helps the whole team thrive. So thank you for sharing that. And I've heard so much about traction and I've never read it, so I'm going to have to add it to my list. Okay, so eight years, is that right? Eight years in,
Torrance (00:33:20):
Yes.
Shanna (00:33:21):
Tell me about your team now. How many people work with your team now? And then I want to talk a little bit just about the numbers side of things.
Torrance (00:33:33):
So today I counted in preparation for this podcast, and we've got about 75 people plus freelancers,
Shanna (00:33:43):
75 people stop it. I
Torrance (00:33:46):
Know, I know. It sounds crazy coming out of my mouth too, believe me.
Shanna (00:33:50):
Are they on location, like 75 people on location in your,
Torrance (00:33:55):
So our marketing team does have some remote folks, and our sales team has some remote folks, but the vast majority of those numbers work in operations and they're onsite every day
Shanna (00:34:08):
Production, fulfillment, customer service.
Torrance (00:34:11):
Exactly.
Shanna (00:34:12):
You lead 75 plus people. I mean, Torrance.
Torrance (00:34:16):
I know.
Shanna (00:34:16):
How does this feel? I mean, that's only in eight years. Wow.
Torrance (00:34:21):
I mean, it's such a beautiful, beautiful responsibility. A funny thing about me, and I want to say this in a way that, okay, I'm just going to say it, but if you told me tomorrow that I couldn't sell corporate gifts anymore, that I was selling lamps, that would be okay with me.
(00:34:47):
I love what we do and I love the creative aspect. The thing that I am obsessed with is this experiment that I think I am running in my mind of can I create a beautiful place to work and scale? And I am obsessed with that idea. Can I run a business that is about working on an assembly line and kidding things all day in a way that respects the individuality, creativity, humanity, feat, lower backs, dreams of every single person on the staff, where every single person feels like this is a place where they've been tested, known, understood, able to thrive more than hitting a sales metric? For me, it's the times that people have come up to me and said, this job has allowed me to X move into my first apartment, afford this, understand that I can be x, understand that I don't have to keep doing Y. That is my Y. And so yeah, I completely agree with what you were saying. And being a leader is the most awesome responsibility. And so when I walk around and see everyone, it motivates me to the way that I'm able to do that is by running a profitable company. And the bigger we grow, the more people that I can bring into our nest
(00:36:33):
And create beautiful things for them and their families.
Shanna (00:36:36):
Okay. You inspire me so much with having 75 employees. You have, I'm sure warehouses and buildings and all the things you have to, like you said, know and understand your numbers. So will you just talk through, I know you have a background in finance, so just maybe your relationship with money as a business owner, what have you found has come naturally? What were some of the bigger struggles in regards to the financial aspects of growing such a large company?
Torrance (00:37:10):
Yes, absolutely. So I had a unique, amazing childhood when it came to money. My parents think that being financially literate is incredibly important. They wish every single high school would teach everyone about personal finance and how to manage it. So I grew up in a household where we were talking about Roth IRAs At the age of 12, we were opening Roth IRAs at the age of 14. We were sitting in our parents' lap and clicking by buy on E-Trade stocks. I'm not saying they were
Shanna (00:37:50):
Sure I
Torrance (00:37:51):
Get it. I'm not saying they were wealthy, 9 million of stocks, but they were like, Hey, we're about to do some investing. Sit in my lap. I'm going to show you what we're doing. So I think I was very lucky to grow up with a comfort about learning about numbers and feeling like they're not something that happens to me. I am in charge of numbers. And then I love math. I worked in finance, and so I'm one of these weirdos where if I'm procrastinating to not send an email, I don't want to send, I go and look. I pull up our p and l to, I'm that weird guy too. Lemme do something. I make a draft budget for next year. Like, oh, I've got, oh my gosh, the most fun is the draft p and l that I've created for next year. And I'll just go in there and be like, oh, what if this goes up? This if goes down
Shanna (00:38:45):
This. What if we change this? I mean, it's like a game. I literally think it should be a game. What if we tweak the price is we are the same human? Yes, yes. I feel this. I'm excited right now to go do it when we get off.
Torrance (00:38:59):
Exactly. So that was something that I was incredibly lucky to come into running this business. Having interestingly, a thing that I didn't have is I was in the military. My parents were in the military, all my friends were in the military. My aunts and uncles are in the military. My great grandparents were in the military. So every single, in that sense, the richest person I know makes $180,000, and that is where the edge of the earth ends and you just fall into the abyss. I remember taking one of your online workshops a few years ago and it was about defining enough, and first you start with this number and I was like, I'm going to make the craziest number ever, $200,000. I'm not saying that's not a ton of money. It totally is. But when I started this business, my dream scenario, the biggest company I could ever conceive of is a company where we might have a $200,000 profit at the end of the year because that is where my planet ended.
Shanna (00:40:16):
That was your threshold.
Torrance (00:40:18):
That was my threshold. And I don't know if that was a bad thing or a good thing, but I do have a moment of kind of like when I listen to a podcast and there's a founder on there and they're like, from day one I knew I was growing this sucker and selling it for $50 million. And now that doesn't always work, and sometimes it's a giant crazy explosion. Most of the time it's a giant crazy explosion. But there's something to be said for big dreams. And I have only, and I'm still struggling with this, the biggest company that I can conceive of is basically one or factor larger than wherever I am right now. Even when I sit down with EOS and I go, where will I be in 10 years? It's like, maybe I'll be double the size I am now. But that's dreaming really small, and it's a big hairy, audacious goal. I forget the author that talks about that, but it's supposed to be big and hairy and audacious, and I think that that may be something in money that has held me back that I am still working on.
Shanna (00:41:30):
So glad Torrance that you brought that up because isn't that so true? I had another podcast guest that came on and talked about just exceeding your wildest dreams. It's like expanding your capacity and expanding your dreaming. When I was younger, like high school, I didn't grow up in a family that had a lot of money and for youth group trips at church, we would go to the lake and I remember being like, oh my goodness, to own a boat. That would be the, I mean, you have made it and just I think incrementally, I also think there's the stigma of we have to struggle. We
Torrance (00:42:10):
Not
Shanna (00:42:11):
Struggle, but even like you said, like 200,000, that's an incredible income and sometimes it's almost like we limit our own selves. So I'm so glad you brought that up because it is a mindset, it's a money mindset of overcoming, and I don't know, it challenges me even to, I would consider myself a dreamer, but I can easily be a realist, feel like, oh, this is just being real. Okay. I'm going to speed us up a little bit. I want to talk about family life a little bit before we go into a quick round, but what would you say is the best thing that you have learned about money?
Torrance (00:42:46):
Oh, okay. I'm so excited about this one. You guys. This took me eight years and I just want one listener to this podcast to write me an email saying, holy smokes. I had no idea this was possible. So every year we make something like 70% of our money in November and December, at least in q4, which is insane for so many reasons. And one of the reasons is taxes, because I would go through this insane scramble where we would go from having no money because we just bought all this inventory to get ready for the holiday season to having tons of money. And my accountant basically saying, you have two weeks and you're currently showing a bottom line number in the seven figures, and I would just scramble to spend it all. And then I realized, Shanna, that you can change your fiscal year
(00:43:56):
And actual tears came out of my actual eyes because it was just, if anyone has a busy season, you can change your fiscal year to make it work. So we changed our fiscal year this year. It starts July 1st and this Christmas, I am going to do a beautiful thing, which is I'm going to save our money and I'm going to have it during the slow season. And instead of, I've really been running this business where 10 months out of the year it's tight and two months out of the year, it makes up the previous 10, which looks all well and good on an annual p and l, but it doesn't feel very good
Shanna (00:44:37):
From
Torrance (00:44:38):
January through September, and I am so looking forward to a year next year, it's going to feel good, and I'm really excited about that.
Shanna (00:44:48):
I love that you brought that up and I think everybody listening just learned something. So if that's you, because I know a lot of people for Q four, especially in the product business is, that's why they call it Black Friday because you go from the red to the black. So yeah, I think that's so incredible and doesn't make you spend, that is one of the things that makes me cringe. All of our lovely tax friends out there when we try to get rid of your profit because taxes, and I'm like, yes, but you need to live on that. Your company needs it, so yay for you. That is a great lesson learned.
Torrance (00:45:29):
Exactly. It's just going to allow me to run my business a little more. Like you would run your finances in your personal life, which is the whole point. If you find you're doing something crazy in your business that just feels antithetical, then I don't know.
Shanna (00:45:43):
Yeah. Okay. Whoever taught you that, give them a big pat on the back. Let's talk family. Just really quickly, I know we're getting close on time, but you have two littles ish
Torrance (00:45:56):
Now. They're getting
Shanna (00:45:57):
Almost school age. How would you say you've seen your business shift in various seasons of life, whether that's having your kiddos or moving different locations? I know you all have moved. How have you kind of allowed your business to really react to your life? Does that make sense or have a
Torrance (00:46:19):
Hundred percent first? Yes. My business growth definitely slowed down after the birth of my first sweetheart, Billy. Secondly, I still have moments where I look at my kids and just go, I'm just going to sell the business, quit my job and be a stay-at-home mom, because I just cannot stand to be away from you for a single stomach. I just want to eat your face a hundred percent. I still have moments like that, but for me, my life seasons are less ups and downs throughout the years and more an annual cycle that I have found that the more I understand this about myself and my business, the more even keel I can be as a leader, which is when we are going through our explosive sales growth in October through December, that's my creative idea time. I get tons of ideas. I think it's because the 74% of my brain that's been thinking about money can now think about something else. And so I am just on feel like this total creative outpouring and I'm taking notes. Then January, I get almost manic in January about annual planning because I'm so obsessed with it. And we have our three day company wide EOS offsite and we're making all of our annual goals. And then in February I'm like, why am I so sad?
(00:47:55):
I have no motivation. I don't feel like going to work today. I don't know who caress about anything, but now I understand, oh, you're coming off of a four month endorphin high and your body is having a chemical reaction to what you just went through. So now I take some time in February and I relax or I just feel that and go, oh, hey, February, what's up? It's going to be fine. And in summer is our slow season, so I take a ton of vacation. I spend weeks with my kids at a time. I'm not bringing crazy ideas, new ideas every day, and that's okay too. And so understanding the flow of the year for me, which is probably something that'll resonate with wedding planners and wedding photographers for sure.
Shanna (00:48:49):
Right. Yeah, and I think giving yourself the permission and that it took you, it sounds like years to kind of figure that out. Like, oh, it's February. This make sense? Write on track this check, giving yourself permission to not go. Somebody once told me a really sweet friend of mine, I know they were meaning very well, but they said, Shannon, you run at 180 or zero and maybe you could just run at 90 all the time. And I was like, I wish I could run at 90 all the time. I kind of beat myself up over that and then I was like, you know what? No, I sprint and then I snooze. That is who I run, and then I walk and just allowing those natural rhythms for you to work. I love that. That kind of speaks to my next question of, in a world that asks us to be great moms, great wives, great business owners, you're a leader of a huge team. How have you found that harmony of running your business and growing it to big heights and also showing up in your life the way you want to?
Torrance (00:49:56):
Okay. Well, I think everyone who's answered this question is work in progress. I'll let you know when I know, right? One thing that has really helped me is actually two things. One, I work from home outside of Q four. I work from home Monday and Friday and I go into the office Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and that's everything for me. I can be as outgoing and performative and chatty on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday as I need to be. All of our company meetings are Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Monday and Friday. I'm not talking, I'm not meeting. I'm thinking I'm at home. I am with my kids, I'm picking 'em up from the bus stop. All of this, and that feels so good. And then two is I started a hobby. I decided to learn piano, and I've never played a musical instrument. I called a local teacher who teaches only kids and me, oh my gosh, Hannah. I literally go to recitals with all six and seven year olds and then me. This
Shanna (00:51:08):
Makes be so happy
Torrance (00:51:08):
Playing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and all the songs that we're learning and it's just fun and unnecessary. It's just for fun. And that's been really fun.
Shanna (00:51:24):
That is so the power of hobbies.
Torrance (00:51:27):
I know.
Shanna (00:51:28):
I think we can so easily get into I work, I do work. I think about work and not everybody. I had a wonderful conversation with a photographer on the podcast and he was like, yeah, I mean when I'm done working, I'm done. I'm like, that's so fantastic. I think I often hear it's hard to kind of shut off that, but a hobby, it does it. I love it. Let's go into quick fire.
Torrance (00:51:56):
Okay, I'm ready.
Shanna (00:51:57):
Even though I'm really sad, we're getting to the end. Okay. What is one thing you would be embarrassed if people knew?
Torrance (00:52:04):
My favorite food is a pot of noodles with butter and salt and stirred all around, and I'll just eat it right out of the pot. It's so bad for you. It's
Shanna (00:52:18):
Butter noodles.
Torrance (00:52:19):
Butter noodles. Give me some butter. Do
Shanna (00:52:21):
You put Parmesan cheese on them ever? Because from the can Parmesan, not can, I don't know, on a bottle.
Torrance (00:52:28):
Butter and Parmesan, what more do you need?
Shanna (00:52:30):
I mean, that's life. This is life. Oh, any regrets or wish you could do over moments?
Torrance (00:52:38):
I read a book as I was first starting the business and the book said, don't worry about S-E-O-S-E-O is dumb. All you need is Instagram. Stop it. You're never going to be smarter than all the people at all. The engineers at Google, so don't even try. And I was like, okay, thank you so much for this great information. And I did not take SEO seriously for six years. And I know for a fact that cost me millions of dollars.
Shanna (00:53:14):
I
Torrance (00:53:14):
Know.
Shanna (00:53:14):
Same
Torrance (00:53:15):
Bummer. Same
Shanna (00:53:17):
Until I quit Instagram in 2017, which you know my story on that. It's genius. I am so grateful I did that because it taught me so much about marketing. For anyone listening, if you are my student or my client or hopefully one day if you want to work together, you'll learn. I am great at finance, I'm great at numbers. It is my God-given gift, they work, they click in my brain. But most everything else, I'm not great at SEO Tech, spelling grammar really bad. And we didn't focus on SEO for so long. We didn't have to, you know what I'm saying? We had enough business, but it's been a huge focus this past year for us as well. And there was a book you read. It wasn't even like it was a book.
Torrance (00:54:02):
I know I should just throw that author right under the bus, but I won't.
Shanna (00:54:06):
No, don't you keep it. But for anyone listening, SEO matters, search Engine Optimization. For those of you like me who may not know what that meant, thanks for sharing that. Oh my goodness. A big win or pinch me moment,
Torrance (00:54:21):
It was hiring a director of sales. So our company is structured. We have a director of marketing, a director of sales, and a director of operations. And for a while I had a director of ops and I had a director of marketing, but I was the director of sales. Finally, a year ago I hired a director of sales and now I have no job, Shanna. And I thought, what am I going to do all day
Shanna (00:54:47):
Except for to be awesome?
Torrance (00:54:51):
It was amazing. As soon as that's taken off my brain, one, the director of sales, I'm not being humble in any way. I mean they are at least 10 times better than I am at being director of sales. And second, my brain was like, oh, wow, now we can think about this and this and this and this. And it was awesome. It's been so great to just be running the business
Shanna (00:55:17):
Like the visionary, the CEO.
Torrance (00:55:19):
Exactly. Yeah.
Shanna (00:55:20):
Hey, this is a side note. We'll come back to quickfire. Everyone Don't get stressed. Torrance, do you ever look like turnaround and see that hundred, the thousands if not hundreds of thousands, I don't know how many boxes that you send out in a year and your 75 team members, do you ever think, how did we get here? Or does it feel like it was just the next step, one step at a time?
Torrance (00:55:47):
No, it completely feels like, how did I get here? And what's really cool about it is that my very first employee from Florida and my next four that I hired slowly are all still with me today. And so we will catch each other in the hallway or I'll just go into their office and we'll just say, can you fricking believe this? Because we worked at the dining room table, we put all of our lunches in my personal fridge, we made boxes in the basement, we sat in the living room. And so we just kind of have these moments where we look at each other and we're just like, is this real? And then we're like, yeah, this is crazy. And then we go off and continue
Shanna (00:56:38):
Living.
Torrance (00:56:40):
But yeah, it's really beautiful for it to not just be me, but be other people that are like, wow, this is nuts.
Shanna (00:56:48):
Yeah, because in 2018, I mean literally the last time we saw each other, you came and spoke at my conference about hiring and teamwork. And I remember you probably had that original five, the five person team. And you talked a lot about the importance of hiring people you enjoy being with, and that a lot of, correct me if I'm wrong, but you can train for a job for most positions. And I just think that's so cool. They've watched it with you. Would you say it was 2020, I think you mentioned where you just saw exponential growth?
Torrance (00:57:23):
Yes. So between 2015 and 2019, we grew between 30 and 50% year over year in, which
Shanna (00:57:32):
Is incredible. That's incredible.
Torrance (00:57:34):
Totally. Then in 2020, we more than doubled in 2021, we more than doubled. We were one of those weird covid businesses. And then in 2022 we went down 10%. Woo, spicy. Yes, it happens to everyone. It was not fun. And
(00:57:59):
No, it was the best thing in retrospect because this year we've gone up, we're going up like 30% year over year, and I've told everyone on the team that when you just go up and up and up every year, you one, you kind of take it for granted. And two, you're waiting for the sky to fall. At least that's how I felt. I knew that I had been playing an incredible game of poker for seven years and I'm waiting for it to end. And then it did. And guess what? Kept waking up in the morning. We kept figuring it out. We had hard conversations. We had meetings, we pivoted, we launched new products. We got into SEO, we redid the website. We just kept taking a hammer and smashing a big rock and turning it into little rocks. And so now on the other side of it, I'm so much more resilient because I'm like, we can handle ups and we can handle downs. The ups aren't going to last forever. The downs aren't going to last forever. And also the growth is sweeter for having not had it.
Shanna (00:59:14):
Yeah, that's so good. Our business is similar in then it grew, grew, grew, grew. And then I took a year off, and then it was like, wait, what? You're coming back? But I think it's in sometimes those we personally on us, not me, you, but I don't want to speak for you, is what I'm saying. Our company, I'm grateful, filled such a need that I didn't have to be good at marketing. I didn't have to be good. I didn't have to have a great website. And so when things slow down, it's like, Hey, now let's dig in and improve these areas. That could be better. Okay. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for sharing that. Okay. Best advice or just really good advice that you have received?
Torrance (00:59:54):
So Reed Hoffman is the founder of LinkedIn. I think you done a million dollar things. He was part of the PayPal. He is known as a very, very calm guy. Like, oh wait, yeah. Now he's the founder of Salesforce, isn't he? No, I'm not sure. Think, sorry. Yes. He's known as a very calm, levelheaded guy. He's been through a million crises and people who've worked with him for years just say, we've never seen him ruffled. And he has this thing that he says where someone, the story was someone came into his office and is just screaming, you're this, you're that. And he just takes it all in and then says, I'm perfectly willing to accept that. And I heard that and I was like, huh, I'm perfectly willing to accept that. Wow. And I try to think about it now, to not take stuff personally, to not worry about what's going on online. I have no social media and Te Twine does no social media put her there, sister.
Shanna (01:00:56):
And
Torrance (01:00:56):
That helps a lot. But kind of just having this like, okay, great. Next. I'm not Reid Hoffman yet. As far as he says it and means it, I'm faking it. And someday I'm going to mean it.
Shanna (01:01:11):
Yeah, it's hard. It's hard not to take, I'm a very sensitive person in a lot of ways. I'm sensitive to other people's feelings. I'm sensitive to what's going on around us and in the world And yeah, just learning how to protect your peace can feel like a luxury and is very hard. I perfectly willing to accept that. Yeah, that is good. Okay, last quick fire and then we'll send it off. What are you working on now or one resource you would like to share?
Torrance (01:01:38):
So I'm just so excited about our business's newest baby. Kidding. And one of the things I love about it is that it is a completely male dominated industry. And I've heard that women owned businesses that are crushing it will call other three pls, warehouses these giant 2000, 200,000 square foot warehouses and kind of get the brush off. And we're changing that. So we're working with small companies and taking on their operations and making them feel as loved and valued as any other client, any other account. You don't have to be shipping a million a year for us to answer the phone. We understand in a,
Shanna (01:02:36):
I'm like, get me some snaps over here, torrent.
Torrance (01:02:38):
Yes. I love it In a visceral, personal way, how much every package that goes out the door matters because that's where we started and we're still there. We get it. And so we know how to treat other people's businesses like our own, and that's what we do. And it's cool to see people just say things to us like, man, no one else would take our call or other folks just wouldn't ship out our stuff or any of the stuff going on out there. And here's my big, hairy audacious in front of you right now is
Shanna (01:03:16):
Give it to me.
Torrance (01:03:16):
I am pretty pumped about giving this male dominated industry a little kick in the butt.
Shanna (01:03:27):
I love it. I'm so excited about this and I love just your heart and your passion and just who you are. Let's hang out. I missed you. I know. Let's do it. We need to get together. Okay. Let's send this off because we just, this has been the best. Okay. Let's go back At eight years, you're still working in the Air Force. Thinking about what you're going to do with your life. What would you tell yourself on day one of starting your company?
Torrance (01:03:58):
I mean, I feel like I already said it, but just to highlight, I would start a weekly blog with all those juicy keywords and Right girl. I would start with EOS from the beginning because when I first learned about EOS, they were talking about directors of marketing and leadership teams, and I was like, oh, I don't need this book. And it can absolutely and should be applied to solo entrepreneurs. It would've been so helpful at the very beginning.
Shanna (01:04:35):
Yeah. I love it. Well, you've convinced me to go buy it and read it. Torrance, this has been such a gift. I have missed you, and it's been fun. I can't believe it's been five years. Give those sweet boys a hug and we will. I've just got to see you soon.
Torrance (01:04:51):
Let's do it. Oh my gosh, that would be so fun. Thank you so much for the community that you've built over all these years. I've learned so much from you. So many people have learned so much from you. And thank you for bringing transparency about money to so many businesses because there's no better thing than getting to do something that you love every day. And if the numbers make sense, then you can keep doing that thing that you love.
Shanna (01:05:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn't have said it any better myself. Thanks, torrent.
Torrance (01:05:25):
Thanks, Shannon.
Shanna (01:05:26):
Hey, wildflower, you just finished another episode of Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast. Head over to consider the wildflowers podcast.com for show notes, resource links, and to learn how you can connect with Torrance. A little sunshine from our Wildflower of the Week. Sonatina. I'm so excited for this podcast. I've long struggled with the business side of business, particularly the numbers, and I love how open and real Shanna is about this important factor. I always feel encouraged and set up overwhelmed when she talks through things, which is a massive shift from the usual dread and oblivion I feel about money. So, so grateful for this resource. Thank you, Sona, Tina, and all of you who have left reviews, they mean the world. One final thought for today from Reed Hoffman. You are more ready than you think. As always, thank you for listening. I'll see you next time.