086. Jena Holliday: Rewriting the Starving Artist Narrative

Almost every artist I’ve interviewed on this show has had some variation of the same story: I didn’t think it was possible to make a living doing what I love. Although today’s guest grew up in a creative home, she always viewed art as a hobby – partly because of an offhand comment from a teacher who told her that being an artist wasn’t a career.

Today, Jena Holliday is a full-time illustrator, author, and entrepreneur. She’s the visionary behind Spoonful of Faith, a creative haven specializing in illustration, hand-lettering, mural art, innovative marketing, and joyful design. Jena’s work has been featured in Good Morning America, Huffington Post, People, and the isles of Target.

Her success is helping rewrite the old “starving artist” narrative and proof that following your passion and building a profitable business is possible.

WILDFLOWER SHOWNOTES : shannaskidmore.com/jena-holliday

📌 RESOURCES MENTIONED:
Happy Planner X Jena Holliday
Jena on the Jamie Ivey Podcast
Jena on Good Morning America!
Spoonful of Faith Book
Sacred Creativity: Inspiration to Reclaim the Joy of Your God-Given Gifts
Wildly Loved - Coloring Book

Transcript

Jena (00:00:00):

It was the beginning of 2020, I got an email from the buying team at Target who was looking for a black artist for their Black History Month collection. So they connected me with one of their distributors to work together on a collection. And they had seen a lot of the designs that I was putting on products in my own shop. And so it was as if in that year, that year or two, like everything just started snowballing. And a lot of the artwork that they wanted to use was work that I had already created and had been selling in the shop. And they were like, we wanna use all of this. Let's put all of this, you know, in product. And from there, <laugh>, that collection did so well. The production, you know, doing production on it takes so long that when we sold out of it, we couldn't get back into it.

Shanna (00:00:57):

You're listening to Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast episode 86. Almost every artist I've interviewed on the show has had some variation of the same story. I didn't think it was possible to make a living doing what I love. Although today's guest grew up in a creative home, she always viewed art as a hobby, partly because of an offhand comment from a teacher who told her that being an artist wasn't a career. Today, Gina Holiday is a full-time illustrator, author and entrepreneur. She's the visionary behind Spoonful of Faith, a creative haven specializing in illustration, hand lettering, mural art, innovative marketing, and joyful design. Gina's work has been featured in Good Morning America, Huffington Post People, and the Aisles of Target. Her success, along with so many others on the show, is helping rewrite the old starving artist narrative and proof that following your passion and building a profitable business is possible.

(00:01:46):

Hey, it's Shanna, and this is Consider the Wildflowers, the podcast. For the past 15 plus years, I've had the honor to hear thousands of stories from entrepreneurs around the world. As a former Fortune 100 financial advisor turned business consultant, I have a unique opportunity to see the reel behind the highlight reel. I'm talking profit and loss statements, unpaid taxes, moments of burnout, and those of utter victory. Or as my husband says, the content everyone is wondering, but not many are talking about. And now I'm bringing these private conversations to you here. The untold stories of how industry leaders, founders, and up and coming entrepreneurs got their start, the experiences that shaped them, and the journey to building the brands they have today. Stories that will inspire and reignite encourage to redefine success and build a life and business on your own terms. Welcome Wildflower. I'm so glad you're here. Hi, Gina. Welcome to the show.

Jena (00:02:37):

Hi, Shanna. Thanks for having me.

Shanna (00:02:39):

I am so excited about this. I love your work. I just feel like you exude joy. And I was seeing how you had a book in Target, and I mean, we did have so much to catch up on. And you're in Minnesota, is that right? That

Jena (00:02:55):

Is, that is right.

Shanna (00:02:57):

I'm

Jena (00:02:58):

About 20 minutes north of Minneapolis.

Shanna (00:03:01):

Okay. So here's a funny story you may or may not know, but I'm Tennessee, from Tennessee, born and raised, but my husband's job took us to Duluth, Minnesota. Oh,

Jena (00:03:12):

Wow.

Shanna (00:03:13):

We moved in 2019. 2019. We were only there for a couple years, but, um, it was like bringing the Tennessee girl to Minnesota, Gina. It was a whole, it was a whole thing. <laugh>, it was a whole thing. But I ended up just falling in love. I mean, Duluth is beautiful,

Jena (00:03:35):

Duluth is beautiful. And I think, you know, just being from Minnesota and I live, you know, more in like the city side, like dry, like coming from Tennessee and then, and then living in Duluth has gotta be a complete difference. Uh, it's, but it's gorgeous. So there,

Shanna (00:03:51):

Yeah, it's beautiful. I was literally the child growing up, and it's so funny now because I have my daughter who's a toddler, and we had a snow day. Like we had a random snowstorm of Tennessee. Doesn't get a ton of snow where I live, and well, any of Tennessee really. And so, anyways, long story short, growing up my mom would be like, put plastic bags over your shoes and go <laugh>. Like, that's, that's how we did snow. So I was like, it's, I'm wet, I'm cold, I'm miserable. I hate snow. And so going to Duluth, you know, they would, I'm sure, I don't know if this is a Minnesota thing to say, but they would be like, there's no bad weather. There's just bad clothing. Yes. And I was like, it's so true. Like, I learned how to dress for snow, but like, when you have a tiny person, I get now, like in Tennessee, you don't get enough snow to like gear up, you know, because next year they're not gonna be able to wear it. Exactly.

Jena (00:04:47):

Exactly.

Shanna (00:04:48):

So we were the kids who had like socks on our hands. <laugh>, it's just such a, you're right, it's a different world, but it is beautiful. <laugh>. Are you from Minnesota originally?

Jena (00:04:59):

So my family's, well, we're from the Midwest. My family is from Illinois. Um, my parents moved to Minnesota and they were in their thirties, so I was about five. So I've pretty much grown up here. Yeah, yeah,

Shanna (00:05:11):

Yeah. Okay. I love it. All right, Gina, tell everybody who you are and just what you do as your work now. And then we're just gonna kind of take it back to life before business.

Jena (00:05:26):

Yeah. So I am Gina Holiday. I am by, let's see, by trade. I'm an illustrator and an artist. Um, but I am a, a business owner and entrepreneur. Recently an author as well. So, congrats. I know. I'm like, I kind of wear a lot of different hats. I, by, by nature, I just have an entrepreneurial spirit. But I started a company called Spoonful of Faith back in 2014. And from there began, um, building just through doing illustration and design work. And it grew into an illustration in Design Studio. Um, I also run an online e-commerce shop. And then I do publishing and writing and licensing <laugh> as well.

Shanna (00:06:17):

How did you come up with the name for your business?

Jena (00:06:20):

It's funny because I feel like now the name really represents the journey that I've been on. Yeah. But it was honestly just something that kind of came to me and like fell on my heart and spirit. Um, but I took a huge leap of faith to start my business. I was, I just worked in a completely different field. I, and I went to school for marketing. I didn't think that I would be an illustrator and artist. It wasn't something I ever saw in my path. And so when I had my daughter in 2014, I started really feeling like what I believed was God pushing me or kind of showing me, um, that there were more gifts and things within me that yeah, I wasn't utilizing. And so that year I took a leap of faith and started an Etsy shop and a blog and just started sharing things that I was drawing. And yeah, I called it and named it Spoonful of Faith. 'cause it was a big jump of faith for me.

Shanna (00:07:26):

Yeah. Yeah. What, did you have an art background? Was it just always something you enjoyed? Did you ever, you know, when you started this Etsy shop or your blog, like, did you ever think it would turn into a business?

Jena (00:07:43):

So I grew up in a very creative family. So I am the middle child of seven. I have four sisters and two brothers.

Shanna (00:07:53):

Wow. I know

Jena (00:07:54):

<laugh>.

Shanna (00:07:55):

I know. That is amazing.

Jena (00:07:57):

<laugh>

Shanna (00:07:58):

I bet family gatherings are so fun. Oh.

Jena (00:08:00):

And just a ton of people like just getting together. It's like easily 20 people.

Shanna (00:08:06):

I love it. It's a party. Yeah. Just with your people. Just with your people. Yeah.

Jena (00:08:11):

So my family was super creative. My, my, my mom actually worked in more of an executive administration role, but my dad was an assistant, well, he was a minister and an assistant, and then an assistant pastor for most of my life. So we grew up just in a very, like, strong faith-based family community. Um, but then also being in a big family, my parents really encouraged us to be creative if, if we couldn't get things on our own or have things or, you know, we just, I, I would say like everything wasn't handed to us. We worked hard for things, but then my parents really encouraged us to use our creativity to get the things that we wanted and make the things that we wanted to see in the world. So my brother now is producer, like a music producer, and I have my sister who is like a baker.

(00:09:05):

Like I, we all kind of have these creative gifts that we have used since we were young. And so, yeah, I would say that I always loved to create in some form or fashion. I never thought I would be an illustrator, though. I loved to draw though. I ne I never thought anything of it. I would fill notebooks with doodles and sketches, but none of them were like things that I spent a ton of time on. It was just something I naturally did. Yeah. Um, if I was on the phone with my girlfriends or, or, you know, during <crosstalk>, you're just doodling. Yeah, I was doodling. Yeah. Yeah. And I just never thought anything of it. So, um, I remember though, when I was in middle school, I had taken like an art class and I was kind of like afraid to take an art class.

(00:09:52):

I never like, took anything that felt like, what is the word I'm looking for? Like more structured. Yeah. And so I had taken, you know, I had learned a lot of things on my own. I was self-taught in a lot of ways. And so I remember taking this art class and the art teacher kind of hint hinting to a lot of the kids in the class, just through conversations we were having with each other that, you know, art might not be a career that you would wanna make. Maybe you'd wanna go to school for business. And so that really, you know, that conversation really deterred me from think art was something I could do. Yeah. And I didn't have anyone in my life that was like a professional artist. It was, I was always had always seen it as a hobby. Right. So I went to school for marketing because I, in my brain, I was like, think marketing's the most creative side of business.

(00:10:48):

And so <laugh>. Yeah. Um, and if I do something with business, it's gotta be like the fun side of it. And so, um, I went to school and got my bachelor's degree in marketing, and I started working in marketing and I was good at it. And I, I love, I, I enjoy marketing, I enjoy learning about like, the stories of brands and like, just telling stories. I, I think I got really what I enjoyed about it and showing that in a creative way. And so I did well with market marketing. And from there I actually moved into a role where I was working in merchandising. So I kind of got to work in these different sides of like, uh, seeing a brand or like a product go from, you know, the product development to the buying side, to putting it in the market, to marketing it.

(00:11:47):

Yeah. And kind of working in all these different areas before I even started Spoonful of Faith. And so, um, but during the time that I worked in merchandising, I wanted to have like a creative outlet. So I started a blog and it was called, I'm Perfectly Human, and I was just wanted to share my life. I shared outfit, outfit posts. Yeah. And I just like, I was like in my early twenties and I just shared like things I was up to now at this point. This was like when blogging was huge. Yeah. And it was the only way that we connected, you know, really with the, with people across the world. You'd read their blogs and you'd leave them comments. Yeah. And I, and

Shanna (00:12:30):

What year was this Gina?

Jena (00:12:32):

I wanna say this was, gosh, when I started to move full faith, it was 2014. So I think I was blogging before that. Yeah. At least three or four years. So this had to be 20 10, 20 11. Yeah.

Shanna (00:12:45):

Okay.

Jena (00:12:45):

And so I like when, it was interesting 'cause I had been blogging for now a couple years. I had a good following with that blog. And a lot of the stuff I shared was just, you know, my life and what I was up to Yeah. And outfit posts. And yeah. When I got pregnant, I started sharing more about like, you know, this new transition of life of becoming a mom. And that was when these ideas started touring around Spoonful of Faith. So I actually closed that blog and opened a completely new blog <laugh> called Spoonful of Faith in 2014. And so, um, and that was just like a whole new journey for me because I was going to now be sharing more about like, my life as a mom. Yeah. And then this new creative endeavor Yeah. That I was, I was in. Yeah.

Shanna (00:13:39):

Okay. So when did you start seeing or feeling the nudge, or how did you transition from working in marketing, becoming a new mom, starting a spoonful of faith? Like at what point were you like, this is a business I'm going to, this is how I'm going to make money?

Jena (00:13:57):

So I had started the blog and the Etsy shop and I started sharing, I opened an, I opened an Instagram account for it, and I started sharing, drawing

Shanna (00:14:09):

The good old days of Instagram <laugh>.

Jena (00:14:11):

Right. <laugh>. Right <laugh>. So I was like, I'll just open this other account and share my drawings with people. And as I started sharing them, people were like responding. And this was the time where like, mommy bloggers were really big and it's fashion. Like bloggers were like, moms would share their kids' fashion and stuff. So I started drawing moms and their kids, and a lot of people were like, oh, can you draw me? You know, we'll pay you, like I'll pay you to do this. And so Wow. And I was like, oh, sure. Like I can get paid for this. So I, yeah, that's when I had opened the Etsy shop and I was like, well, I'll just take custom portraits from people. Yeah. And so that was where that kind of transition changed of me just sharing my work and then people actually wanting to pay me for it. I remember my first illustration job that I got, like my first listing that sold on Etsy, and I think I charged her like $35 to draw her daughter <laugh> this woman to draw her daughter holding like her dolphin stuffed animal <laugh>.

Shanna (00:15:23):

Oh my goodness.

Jena (00:15:24):

Cutest little picture. But it was, I couldn't believe that someone paid me $35. And I, I, I wanna say I spent like hours on it, but Yeah.

Shanna (00:15:32):

Yeah.

Jena (00:15:34):

It

Shanna (00:15:34):

Was so I believe it. Yeah.

Jena (00:15:35):

It was such a big deal to me then. So I think that was when it transitioned is that it really began initially as just like custom portraits and illustrations for families and moms and kids.

Shanna (00:15:50):

Okay. Tell me Gina then, about the growth. Like, how did it start taking off? When did you leave your corporate job? You know, what kind of work were you taking on? I just wanna tell, walk me through those first few years and just Yeah. The growth that you saw happening and like

Jena (00:16:08):

Yeah.

Shanna (00:16:09):

So even like Yeah. All the stuff you were learning.

Jena (00:16:12):

Yeah. So, I mean, I was self-taught in everything. So, and I remember a friend of mine had realized that I was like, really gonna make this, like really start doing this. And I had still been working full time in marketing. So at that, at the time that my daughter was born in the first year, I was working for like a Fortune 500 company. I was doing digital marketing at this time. So I was like helping run ads for the company and like, but I was still running my blog on the side and would have the Etsy shop that I would run, you know, after hours. So after I got off work, like this fun, exciting thing I could get to. And the first two years were mostly custom orders, um, custom portraits. Yeah. And so this was still like, to me kind of a hobby because it wasn't something that I could do full time. Yeah. I wasn't necessarily saving that money. I was just like, oh, this is fun money, you know, that I'm

Shanna (00:17:11):

Getting to made some cash. Yeah, yeah.

Jena (00:17:14):

Yeah.

Shanna (00:17:15):

<laugh>.

Jena (00:17:15):

And so from 2014 to 2016, it kind of just was this thing that I was doing that kind of fulfilled me creatively and on, I would say on Instagram, it, the account started to grow. People were following, people wanted to see what I was drawing. I was sharing parts of my life as becoming a mom and sharing how I was kind of balancing this whole art and business and, you know, trying to grow this, this little thing of fake this. And it was, the first two years were, I wouldn't say they were like tough because I wasn't, um, 100% in the business yet. Right. It was just on the side. Yeah. So 20 less pressure almost. Yeah. There was a lot less pressure. Yeah. It was just fun. But in 2016, I had my son. Yeah. So right before that, so it had to be at the end of 2015, I started to feel like, I think this can be more Yeah.

(00:18:22):

Than just what I'm doing because nothing was getting, like, it wasn't dying down. And then I was getting to the point where like, I could only take on so much. Yeah. Even when people would ask me, um, I was getting slammed with custom portraits and orders. Yeah. Still through Etsy? Yes. Still through Etsy. Still through Etsy. Okay. And I have to turn them away, um, because I just didn't have as much time or we had just longer lead times to get through things. And I remember feeling like I'm about to go on maternity leave Yeah. For my son. Um, he was born in February of 2016, so in the beginning of the year, I was like talking to my sister-in-Law. I'm like, I'm about to go on maternity leave, but I really feel like, like God is like, I think this is a time where I'm supposed to go out on my own.

(00:19:10):

I think like do it. And I remember everyone, like my husband was like, <laugh>, he's like the logical side of our relationship. So he wasn't really like, he was like, yeah, I don't know. Like, you know. Yeah. Uh, but I knew I was going on maternity leave and I knew I wanted to take three months off. So Yeah. I was like, I'm gonna take this time off anyway, so let me see if I can, like now, well, I'm about to be a mom of two and take out a whole nother child. Let me see if I can start building this thing and do it full time. Yeah. And I was like, at the end of the maternity leave, you know, if things are not, if I'm not able to sustain it, you know, if, if we're not getting the income that we, we need from it, yeah.

(00:19:55):

I'll go back to work. You know, that was how I convinced my husband. I was like, I'll go back to work, you know? No problem. Yeah. And so I left my job, I went on maternity leave and I started just seeing if I could build it like full time Yeah. And take more, like after I had time to kind of rest and obviously transitioning be a mom. I think it was like a month and a half, a month or so later, and I did not go back to work. I, it was funny because it was as if every time we get to a point where I'd be like, I don't know if this is gonna, like, if we're gonna Yeah. Be able to have enough, or if this is growing at the right rate, I would get a project. Yeah. And at that time I started getting, like, projects from people that were building their brands, or like small businesses that wanted, um, logos or illustrations for work. And I had had also started getting authors that were interested in illustrations for the children's books. And so I remember I got an offer from the church that I had just started, started attending to illustrate a book for the pastor. Yeah. It was like the biggest job that I had had at that, at that time. And, you know, it was just, like I said, it was just as if every time I was thinking I'd throw in the towel

Shanna (00:21:19):

Yeah.

Jena (00:21:19):

Something would, would come <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. And so I would say the first two years though, from 2016 to about 2018 of running it full time were tough on us because, um, we had basically transitioned down to a one income. Yeah. My husband was managing, you know, like trying to work and take care of the family. And then my money at that point was like, you know, had to be used towards bills. So I really wasn't making any money. I was, I felt like so fulfilled in what I was doing, but I wasn't. I was like building, you know, we were, I was building this thing. And so those two years were really tough, but I, I learned a lot. I made a lot of connections. And what I started to see was that I started getting a lot of work from people that had referred me. I so many people were, that I was working with were felt like they had good experiences with me. Yeah. And that started to really build my clientele.

Shanna (00:22:24):

Yeah.

Jena (00:22:25):

Yeah.

Shanna (00:22:25):

And Gina, was it still mostly like your presence was mostly Instagram and then Etsy?

Jena (00:22:34):

Yeah.

Shanna (00:22:35):

Yeah. Okay. And I do wanna hear about like, pricing. How are you figuring out how to price? Because it's, it sounds like you were getting a lot of various types of jobs. Yes. So how are you figuring out how to charge people?

Jena (00:22:51):

Yeah. So I think after that first job that I charged that, um, woman and $35, I don't think I ever did that again. <laugh>. I went

Shanna (00:23:00):

Lesson learned <laugh>. Yeah.

Jena (00:23:02):

<laugh>. So I had kind of figured out how many hours it would take me to do an illustration be, um, yeah. Like a portrait because I had done so many of them. So after I had done like a number of them, I can't remember how many, I started realizing, okay, I think I need to figure out how much I'm okay making hourly. Yeah. And I wanna say I did like, it was either 25 to like $40 an hour or something. Yeah. I knew it'll only take me a few hours to do it. But then I, um, so I think at first I, I pressed it lower than I, than I, you know, obviously do now, but I think I was charging like 150 to $200 for, for a custom illustration. And I also did it based on how many people you had in the picture.

Shanna (00:23:49):

Yes.

Jena (00:23:51):

Another thing that I had, or a way that I had learned was I often learned, because I was self-taught in a lot of business, I would learn from others. So I kind of did some digging on Etsy from other people that were doing custom portraits. Yeah. And at that time, a lot of people were doing like fashion style illustrations. Those were like really big. So I kind of used some of those as guidelines to a basis for what, to charge for those. Yeah. So I had a really good handle on custom portraits and what to charge for that. Yeah. When I started getting other jobs Yes. For like logos, <laugh> and like children's books.

Shanna (00:24:29):

Books, yeah.

Jena (00:24:31):

Yeah. What's a price? Yeah. And it was honestly trial and error. Yeah. So I would kind of look out in the market, go on Google searches, try to figure out what people were charging, and then pick a number that I felt comfortable asking somebody for. And so it was very like, uncomfortable at first because I always thought I was charging too much. Yeah. Um, and I always thought I would get a no and the person would run away and not wanna work with me anymore. <laugh>. But, so I think a lot of it was really trial and error.

Shanna (00:25:04):

Yeah.

Jena (00:25:05):

Yeah. Yeah.

Shanna (00:25:07):

Okay. Tell me Gina then, about the growth. So the first few years, like we're kind of just taking what comes, at what point were you like, okay, I need my own website now you're producing your own products, your Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, you know, I just would love to hear Yeah. You're illustrating books. I mean, I'm looking on your website now, it's like partnerships with Happy Planner, you've been on Good Morning America. You just put a book in Target. Like, walk me through just the growth you saw in your, in your company. Was there anything, any major turning points that you're like, I can attribute this or Yeah. Was it all just kind of organic?

Jena (00:25:46):

So I honestly, a lot of it felt organic. It seemed as if my, as my business, as people began to follow my story and my journey on, on social media. Yeah. Um, business kind of trickled in with that. Yeah. So it kind of just grew over time. Right. But it was, gosh, I wanna say, was it 2018 that I had connected with a local small publishing company? Yeah. Who, um, and their name is Wise Publishing. And the owner had reached out and asked me if I was Agent Bitch. She's like, you know, you're, I see that you're working with, you know, self-published authors, like, do you have an agent? And I was like, no. And she was like, okay, well, you know, we have projects with authors and we might be able to pull you into some of them to do illustrations and also to do book covers.

(00:26:50):

And so I began to work with this small publishing company and they were, you know, they were giving me much more than I had ever really asked people for. So I was starting to really understand Yeah. A different side of work that I could be doing and getting paid for. Yeah. And as I worked with them, I worked on a couple children's book projects with them. And in 2019, in August of 2019, I got an email from an editor at Harper Collins who had seen one of the children's books that I had illustrated with that publishing company Yeah. And asked if I would ever be interested in illustrating and writing my own book. And I was like, yes, <laugh>. I was like, what? Like,

Shanna (00:27:41):

Oh, no, thanks. That's fine. Yeah.

Jena (00:27:43):

It was like, of course, like, I dunno what I'm doing and uh, you know, but I will do it. And that was kind of this turning point. Yeah. But I had, during this time, so between 2016 and 2019, I had began to create other items in my Etsy shop. Yeah. So outside of doing custom portraits, I started like wanting to create my own things. There were things that I saw that I felt like lacked in the market. Um, just being like a black female illustrator. Yeah. There were just things I wanted to see in the world. There were things I wanted to create and I didn't see others creating them. And so I just started making things myself. So I was working with like a print on demand company, and I would print, um, mugs. And, um, at first it was really just art prints Yeah. And mugs and principles, like really simple things that I knew I could do. And then I had started, I wanna say this was like in 2018, I had started thinking, I think like I would love to see some of my designs on apparel.

Shanna (00:28:57):

Yes. Obsessed with your Yes.

Jena (00:29:01):

<laugh>. So I started creating these like faith inspired Yes. Just like positive message, um, illustrations and putting them on t-shirts and sweatshirts and that, and I would wear them and share them on social media. And that really changed the trajectory of my shop. So people really started, they were like, oh, this is great. We, this is unique, this is different. This is what we need. Yeah. And people, so around that same time that I was getting like this email from Harper Collins, I was also seeing this like lift in my shop and products Yeah. And people wanting to see more from me.

Shanna (00:29:43):

Yeah. Um, were you figuring out Gina in this time, like when you get into products and I know print on demand, that's a great way to do it. How Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> were you feeling like you were figuring out more of the business side? Where were you feeling like, okay, this is coming easily, easily to me as far as like how to make profit? Was it a struggle financially? I'm just interested of like how you were figuring all this out.

Jena (00:30:08):

I know <laugh>, so it, it's funny because when I had, I, uh, talked briefly about how I used to work at merchandising. So I worked at this company for a few years. Um, I worked in merchandising first, and then I had moved over to marketing. 'cause that's where I really wanted to be. But when I was in merchandising, I was an assistant buyer for skincare. So this company was, um, a, it's, now it's, it's, it was a television shopping network. Okay. Yeah. And so, yeah. So I had learned, like, first I was like a gopher, right? Yeah. I just ran around and did all the stuff from the buying team. Right. But then I had worked my way up to being an assistant buyer. So I had learned from that job kind of like what buyers did and how they would price things. I didn't understand a lot of it at first.

(00:31:01):

Right. But I started to realize what it meant to, you know, the cost that the vendor would give you and what the margin would be and how you'd have to price it to, to get it off Yep. On the shelf to make a profit. So I I, I did that for about a year before I moved into marketing and kind of was working on that side of things. Yeah. And so a lot of the things that I had learned previously in that role kind of started coming back to me. So I was like, okay, I know that I have to have a cost at a certain, you know, rate. And so I knew I really wanted like a 50% margin. I was like, I need to double everything. I don't know <laugh>. Like, I, I don't know everything, but I know I just need to double it.

(00:31:42):

Yeah. And so that was kind of how I started out. Even with Print on Demand, I just would take, you know, what it said it was at, and I would like, we have to charge at least double this or more. Yeah. And so that was kind of my model in initially was whatever the cost is, I'm gonna double it. Yeah. And I would also kind of learn from different people that were teaching things online. Right. I think I took, I would take, you know, many courses and, and things just to kind of learn and understand. Yeah. And so, um, that experience along with like, my just ability to kind of do my own research was really helpful. But I naturally, it's, it's funny because I'm very creative, but I'm a, I'm a very analytical, I have a very analytical brain. Yeah. So I love diving into the numbers. I love figuring out how things work. And so the business side of my business didn't scare me. It excited me to kind of understand it for myself.

Shanna (00:32:41):

Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay. Now walk me through then, Gina 2019, you hear from Harper Collins and things are really picking up. Like kind of just walk me through the last few years and Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I would be also interested if you ever saw, it sounds like Instagram was such a big part of your marketing. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. When did you start to see that shift? Was it more getting press and media? And has that really helped sustain you? As you know, the Instagram world has changed in the last few years. Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.

Jena (00:33:13):

<affirmative>. So when I got that deal in 2019, you know, from there I started, I had to spend a lot of my time working on this book. And it was very interesting because at the time that I got this right in the beginning, I think it was the beginning of 2020, I got the email, another email <laugh> from the buying team at Target who was looking for

Shanna (00:33:39):

So cool

Jena (00:33:41):

<laugh>, I know <laugh>, who was looking for a black artist to design products for their Black History Month collection. And so at this time, like this was like a newer idea for them to work directly with artists. Yeah. Um, and now it's kind of like, you know what they do, like every year they choose different artists to work with. And so this was like a new initiative for them and you know, the headquarters for targeted in, in Minnesota. Yes. So I connected with, you know, some of these local, the local buying team, and they connected me with one of their distributors to work together on a collection together. So it was like, I was working on this book, and then I got this, you know, email from Target and they had seen a lot of the designs that I was putting on products in my own shop. Yeah. And I, um, I think, and it had to be between 2018 and 2019 that I opened up my website and I had started like actually, like, I think I should sell it on spoonful of faith.com. And so it was as if in that year, that year or two, like everything just started snowballing.

Shanna (00:34:57):

Yeah.

Jena (00:34:58):

And a lot of the artwork that they wanted to use was work that I had already created and had been selling in my shop. And they were like, we wanna use all of this. Let's put all of this, you know, in product. And so from there, <laugh>, that collection did so well, they thought they didn't know what it would do. Yeah. And so they didn't buy it. They didn't buy it deep. And the production, you know, doing production on it took take so long. Yeah. That when we sold out of it, we couldn't get back into

Shanna (00:35:31):

It. Was that like 2020 when it released?

Jena (00:35:34):

It was, it was 2021. Was it 2020 or 2021?

Shanna (00:35:39):

Yeah. Okay. It sold out so fast.

Jena (00:35:42):

Yes.

Shanna (00:35:43):

And they couldn't get more,

Jena (00:35:44):

They, it sold out before the end of Black History Month <laugh>. Yeah. So it was like gone. Yeah. And the manufacturer that I work with had a relationship with them and they did other work with them. And so they had asked me, you know, like, maybe we should continue working together. We could probably keep yourself in Target. And that began a licens like my first licensing deal. And that started kind of the journals and the licensing that I started doing the Target. Yeah. Yeah. Same year while I had now product. But I think it was right after my product had released in Target, I of course started getting all of this prep, like Yes. So, you know, locally I was getting publicity, and then naturally I was, people were just seeing my work, you know? And so I have been that same year established a licensing agreement with the Happy Planner. And then that opened my work to a whole world of like planning, you know, people that love planners and love stickers and love illustrations. The

Shanna (00:36:51):

Planet world is its own beautiful animal. It's, yes.

Jena (00:36:55):

It's, it's a huge business. A he like its own world. And so that just opened, you know, so many possibilities and doors. And there was this illustration that I had made of these, I think it's 13 women, and I called it Unity. And so that illustration like was licensed and kind of like picked up. And I had, I've been selling it on a T-shirt. Yeah. And so, like around the time of 20 20, 20 21, like, we're going through this pandemic Yes. But my business was like growing like crazy and everybody wanted this T-shirt. People were starting to buy my work in stores. And it was just like this, this crazy crazy beast that I didn't know if I could control it. I didn't know if I had a handle on it. Yeah. And so my shop was doing really well. I was selling Mo more than I ever really sold every month.

(00:37:55):

And a lot of it was coming from social media. A lot of people were like finding me through social media, but then also, you know, through different press. And so there was this like, I feel like it just was snowballing. Everything was like really just going in this direction. And I wanna say it was man 2024 right now. So it had to be like 20, 20, 22 maybe. Like, so a couple years from there. So from 2020 to like 2022 things were just crazy. Yeah. Like, I, I think in 2020 is when I hit, like I, the first time I hit six figures. Yeah. And it just kept going up from that year. And then I wanna say 20, 22 things started to kind of like become normalized again. <laugh>. Yeah. Like that, like in 2021, I had released my children's book. So there was still like press and buzz going on, but then 22 things started to get a little bit more quiet.

(00:38:55):

Social media wasn't necessarily the, the biggest driver to my work, but it still, yeah. It still was driving traffic, but I was starting to get a lot of like organic traffic to my website just through SEO and things that I had been doing. Yeah. And so I kind of started to see things even out, and I was kind of out of this like crazy whirlwind. Yeah. But again, I continued to get projects and business through the relationships I had. Yeah. And, and the work I had been doing in publishing kind of became, it's another form of income in my business where I was getting requests from, you know, major publishing houses to, to do book covers for, for authors. Yeah. And that became another, you know, just like side of my business where I could make income. And because of, um, I really, really prided myself in having good character and doing good work, communicating well.

(00:39:58):

And I think that pays for itself, that comes back in extreme dividends because you continue to get people that wanna work with you Yeah. And that come back and remember you. Yeah. And so that began to become another portion of my business was publishing. Yeah. Yeah. In 20, gosh, now I'm like, all the years kind of jumbled together, but I think it was 20 20, 20 22 I got, I started getting, so after my children's book came out in 2021, I think it was later that year, or the beginning of 2022. So right around that time I started getting agents asking if I was agented for, like they're, oh, these, you know, you have a book that came out, you know, are you agented? And I wasn't, I had been handling everything myself. I did all my contracts myself. I now, my mom, I did talk about how my mom was in administration, so she was actually an executive assistant at a local law firm.

(00:41:02):

So she had worked in with lawyers for like 20 some years. And so we had a lot of connections to people that worked in law, worked in IP law, et cetera. So if I had questions about certain things, I kind of had an in with somebody that would talk to me for 15, 20 minutes for free, you know? Yeah. And so I had handled pretty much everything myself, but I had multiple agents, agencies asking if I, you know, was interested in agent in that they saw a career, like telling my story, sharing my work, and they saw a career in books. And so I signed with an agent for book publishing for books. And in 2022, at the end of 2022, I signed another book deal. So <laugh>, like, I had licensing projects out in the world. So I had like the work that I had been doing with journals and Target and Happy Planner had done well.

(00:42:02):

So I like renewed contracts with those licensing partners. I had my e-commerce shop, um, where it was crazy for a couple years and then it kind of slowed down. And then I started really, uh, having this side of my business that was booked and publishing. So for the past year I've been working on books that that will actually release this year. So it's interesting because I, there's just been so many different shifts and changes in, in my business. Yeah. I think where I'm at right now, I don't think a lot of my business comes from social media anymore. Yeah. Um, it's like things that I've established work that I've done kind of ushers in its own business. Yeah. Right. I still, like social media has just completely changed. Yes. And so while I do still drive good traffic from my, um, Instagram, it doesn't convert like it used to, you

Shanna (00:43:05):

Know? Right. Yeah. It's a different world.

Jena (00:43:07):

It's a totally different world.

Shanna (00:43:09):

Gina, I love your story and I would love for you to talk about, it sounds like you've let opportunity and creativity be the driver of where you're going. You know, it's like this, this opportunity came or this in that, which I love. And it's also like kind of a different approach. People go in like, here's my business plan <laugh>. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, here's how much money I need to make. Here's the offers I'm going to have. Whereas I feel like what I hear from me is more so like I took the opportunities that came and I'm sure there's a lot you turned down, but Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> and learned along the way. How have you maybe married in a sense, those two, like the financial need of running your business with the projects that you're taking on as you grow? Like, did you ever sit down and write out, here's my plan for 1 5, 10 years? Or was it just like, this is where we need to be and this new project just came in? Does that make sense?

Jena (00:44:13):

Yeah. Yeah. So I think it was a, it was a few years ago that I started really trying to map out my year because I, I think once I had a couple years under my belt, I had an idea of what I thought I would make.

Shanna (00:44:27):

Right.

Jena (00:44:28):

And so then I tried to utilize that along with like my income to figure out like where we would be. So I would break down, okay, if I do this many custom portraits, if I get this many, you know, small business projects, then I think we'll be here for the year. Or, and honestly, I really, it was hard to, for me to map out the year or like I might project the year, but in my mind I was really only looking at the court like, okay, where do we, what do I need for the next three months? And I was kind of living like that for a while. Yeah. And so I think that was stressful for sure on like our family. I know for my husband it was stressful because he wanted, you know, he wanted that for sure, like how he needs a plan <laugh>.

(00:45:11):

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Like, yeah. And so after, you know, those first maybe four years when I started to kind of get these bigger opportunities, we were able to really start to plan out Yes. What we could, you know, foresee that we would get Yeah. So we knew the averages of what would come through my shop. Um, we knew the highs and lows. Right. Like Yeah. And what I began to start using that to kind of make our financial decisions. So Yeah. You know, even though, you know, different opportunities would come, there were obviously many things that we had to turn I had to turn away or many things that just didn't make financial sense it for my time. I started to really see what could I get for my time. Yeah. And I started to really protect my time. So I stopped doing a lot of custom portraits because there were, that was just too much time.

(00:46:07):

Right. And not enough pay. Yeah. So I started to take, I was like, I'll take on small business projects if they're over this dollar figure. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I will do publishing work if it's this dollar figure. Um, another area that I didn't really talk about that I was getting work from was from, from posting on social media. So different, you know, people would wanna partner with me to share things and as long as to me it aligned with what I was doing Yeah. Or it was something creative that I could share, you know, I would pitch to make, you know, good money off of that Right. As another source of income. And so I start, I really started just ne not taking anything under like a thousand to $2,000. Yeah. Because I knew how much effort it actually took, you know, from doing so many things, kind of like scrappy for so many years.

(00:47:00):

I learned like how much effort it actually took that it wasn't really just doing the artwork, it was the back and forth through email. It was the invoicing, it was following up for your money, it was all of that. And so I started to really figure out how many actual hours each of these projects would cost and or, you know, cost me and determine from that what I wanted to make. Yeah. And then I also started like backing into, um, the numbers. So I figure, okay, we made this last year, we made a hundred grand, you know, last year. So now how do we make 150? You know, like, what do we need to do to go higher? Um, what does that look like? What kind of projects does that look like? What does that look like in terms of my time? Right. And that, you know, really started to open up my mind to working in a very different way and not trying to to, you know, trade less of my time for just a dollar and try to figure out how I can get the best. Yeah. You know, dollar for my

Shanna (00:48:06):

Time. Gina, I love that so much. 'cause it feels like you've held onto your creativity and you've taken on these opportunities. You're not put in some, you know, a box of like, I only do this, I only do that. Mm-Hmm. However you've strateg. Because I feel like sometimes the numbers, you know, I love me a good spreadsheet. Right. <laugh>, sometimes the numbers can feel a little bit of it like a cage to your creativity, you know, depending on how you, but you really have let it be freedom to your creativity and like make it help you make it sounds like make strategic choices. Yeah. And where you're investing your time. And I love that. Okay. My goodness. I mean, we could chat for so long. I've just been loving. I know this. I know. But I do, before we go into kind of a quick fire, I do want to of course hear about just how you have found harmony in your work, in your life. Mom of two, growing your business with littles at home, taking on a ton of big opportunities while also, you know, doing a ton of custom work. Like you, um, you sound busy. <laugh>.

(00:49:12):

How have you found in growing your business, growing your family, just like the ride harmony for you all? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>.

Jena (00:49:23):

You know, I think those first few years I didn't really have any harmony. I worked a lot. Um, my kids were young. I was tired a lot. I think I worked a lot during like late night hours early morning. Yeah. I, I burnt out a lot in the first four or five years. And I got to this place where I am like, I don't wanna, I don't want to live like this. Yeah. Like if this, you know, I don't think this is what, you know, I felt like, I don't think this is what God has for me. I don't think he wants to be burning out. Right. You know, I don't think he wants me, I don't think I want to be this mom that's not present because I'm so worried about, you know, my work. Yeah. And so a few years ago I started to really think about the idea of space and margin and how I wanted to make sure that was implemented in our lives.

(00:50:12):

Yeah. And I'm like, if I'm working all of this to be, to have this flexible schedule, to have time with my family, but I'm not using it for that. You know, what is the point of it all? Yeah. Um, and so I really started to try to make shifts. So a couple things that I do now. Um, I have a lot of boundaries and I'm, and it wasn't really easy at first because I just loved the work. I was doing so much that I could work all day. I just wanted to work, you know, <laugh>. Yeah. And so I had to start setting boundaries because I saw that it was affecting my relationship with my husband. It was affecting them, my relationship with my kids. And I heard something, I think it was Jamie Ivy that said this, and maybe it wasn't, it could have been someone else, but I'm pretty sure I remember hearing this on her podcast and she said something about, someone had asked her about balance or something, and she had responded that it was, um, not really about balance, but it was about being a hundred percent wherever you were.

(00:51:07):

Yeah. So if that, if I was working, I was a hundred percent there. If I was with my kids, I was a hundred percent there. Yeah. And so that really stuck with me. And I started to kind of implement these boundaries where I'd say, okay, I'm gonna be with my kids in the morning, you know, before they go to school or, you know, have someone come to help, help care for them. And then, you know, when they are gone, then I'll work and make this, you know, certain time that I, I realized that there were certain times of the day that I was just way more productive. And so I got tons of stuff done, you know, during these certain hours. And then I kind of hit a wall where I couldn't do certain tasks. Right. And so I'd say, okay, well then I need to stop. Like that's the time where I will, um, stop and then I can be, you know, with my family. And so I had set these boundaries just in my natural day. And then I started to set boundaries around my work schedule. So like, uh, usually don't take meetings on Mondays or Fridays. I try to keep everything within like the three days in the middle. 'cause I know usually coming out of the weekend, I'm kind of groggy. I gotta get my plan together, I gotta get my mind

Shanna (00:52:16):

Right. My brain on Yeah. <laugh>.

Jena (00:52:19):

And then Fridays, I'm usually one foot into the weekend. Yeah. So I love that I started to kind of implement those boundaries and that really helped me to create this harmony in our life where I can do all of these things, give all of myself to my business and then, you know, turn it off and be with the people that I love. Yeah. Yeah.

Shanna (00:52:41):

Yeah. I love that so much, Gina. Okay. I have one more question to ask before we go into quick fire. Yeah. And then we just have to get together. 'cause I just, we need to be focused <laugh>.

Jena (00:52:49):

Right.

Shanna (00:52:51):

Tell me about the moment of taking your family in to Target to see your book on the shelf.

Jena (00:53:01):

Yes. So it was amazing. It, we found it at, it was at the local store. So we had, you know, looked it up and saw it was at the Target right down the road. And, you know, it was just this surreal moment of seeing my book. We, uh, my son, you know, held it, everyone. Like, it just was Yeah. Something that, what's funny is it's not something I ever dreamed about. I never really thought I, even though I love to draw, I never saw myself doing books. Yeah. And I remember lots of people telling me I could see your work in children's books. And I just thought, ah, you know, like, that's what you think, you know? Yeah. But we'll see. And so it was this moment where I had never, I had never imagined. It just felt so out of body. Yeah. And like real. Yeah. Um, and then, you know, to check like pretty much every time we go to Target, we look for, we look for <laugh>. Okay. It's on this aisle, you know, and see. Um, and it was just, just a really special moment with our family and we got pictures and videos and I'll never let go of those. Yeah. Those are, you know, forever. I'll cherish those. That moment.

Shanna (00:54:13):

Do you feel like each of these opportunities and each of these big things and the small things you've done, have you had to mentally work back through that? You know, art teacher years ago who probably meant no harm, but the messaging of being an artist isn't a career.

Jena (00:54:33):

Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think the landscape has changed Yes. A lot for artists. Yes. Right. Like the, the access and, you know, ability to share your work and to build a following and a and an audience for your work is just so different than it was when I was growing up. So it's like, I know she didn't meet, you know, she was just speaking from her experience. Right. And, um, but it did stay with me. But it was something I definitely had to like overcome. Yeah.

Shanna (00:55:02):

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm so, I'm sure in so many different ways, like taking your own self seriously. And I mean, we could unpack that for a LA long minute. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Jena (00:55:14):

<laugh>

Shanna (00:55:15):

Gina, this has been so wonderful. Um, I truly, if you come to Tennessee, let's hang out.

Jena (00:55:22):

Yeah.

Shanna (00:55:23):

Let's quickfire

Jena (00:55:24):

Okay's

Shanna (00:55:25):

Do some fun little quickfire questions. Okay. So what is one thing you would be embarrassed if people knew?

Jena (00:55:32):

So my very, very close friends and people I grew up with know this, but one of my front teeth is like, uh, an implant, like a fake tooth. And it's from high school. Like you would never know this, but <laugh>, I used to be a cheerleader, uh, uh, like a competitive cheerleader. And one time during practice while I was catching like my flyer, her arm like came, knocked my front tooth out. <laugh>. No. So I had to get my tooth replaced and for like a week, I couldn't get into the dentist for like a week. So I didn't, my mom was like, you can stay home from school. She didn't make me like go to school every day until I can get, get into the dentist.

Shanna (00:56:16):

I mean, it knocked it out. Just gone,

Jena (00:56:18):

Knocked it clean out. Yes.

Shanna (00:56:21):

Ouch.

Jena (00:56:22):

And so I had to get my tooth replaced. So like, it's just this really funny story that I got my tooth knocked out from one of my flyers and, and Cheerlead <laugh>,

Shanna (00:56:31):

I mean, and people say cheerleading isn't a sport that's dangerous. Right,

Jena (00:56:35):

Right.

Shanna (00:56:35):

That's dangerous right there, <laugh>. Well, you have a beautiful smile, so

Jena (00:56:40):

Thank

Shanna (00:56:41):

You. <laugh>, any regrets or wish you could do over moments?

Jena (00:56:46):

Uh, honestly, I, I don't really have too much of a regret. And I think it's because I started taking this perspective like years ago, that even if something was bad, I would try to learn from it. Yeah. So I really just think of like any opportunity where it's like I'm disappointed in something. I should try to see what I could learn from it. Yeah. So I don't really regret anything because I see when I look back over my life, how all of the different jobs I've had, all the different things have kind of led and helped in certain ways. Yeah. So, um, I don't really think I can pinpoint anything that I would regret.

Shanna (00:57:20):

I love that. And that's such a good perspective as a, um, overachiever, perfectionist over here. I wish I could have that perspective. I tell myself that's a better perspective, but I'm like, why didn't you get that? Right. Shanna, come on <laugh>. But, but truly I am trying to learn so much like, because you have to go through things to learn. Yeah. That you have to do things one way to recognize you wanna do 'em another like Yeah. And so, exactly. Yeah. I love that. Okay. Big win or pinch me moment.

Jena (00:57:53):

Oh man. I think honestly, some of my, okay, so it's crazy 'cause you would think I'd be like, oh, being in Target. Yeah. Good morning America. Sure. Like, that was crazy. Like, uh, that was just crazy. I couldn't believe they even wanna interview me. Yeah. But the moments that like really are pitch me moments are when I've done like, book readings in schools and, and like, been around my kids and seeing the reaction to my book. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. That was like way more impactful to me to like, see the kids reading it, hearing it like Yeah. Learning like from parents that like, they're like, oh, you know, we, we read your book at at bedtime. Like, yeah. That for me was just like, something that I, that I wanna bottle up that feeling and like hold it forever.

Shanna (00:58:39):

Yes. Yeah. Just the impact. Yeah. Especially when, you know, our, our kids see us working, but they don't always know what we're working on

Jena (00:58:48):

And then at all. Yeah.

Shanna (00:58:50):

Yeah. I love that. Okay. Best advice or just really good advice that you've received?

Jena (00:58:57):

I think my best advice, or like I would say is to like, it's something that I shared before with people, and I think it's something that sticks with me is just not to overlook your, the small beginnings, like what you have. I think sometimes we like don't realize like metaphorically speaking, if you have a seed, it can grow into something big. Yes. You know? And sometimes we overlook what we think is small to us. And I, I say that because I feel like I've had a lot of different transitions through my business and a lot of different ways that I've made income and opportunities, and I really try to hold onto like, new beginnings and like the, the small things. Yeah. And just knowing that it can, it can change and it can grow into something much, much greater. So, yeah. Um, yeah.

Shanna (00:59:48):

Yeah. I think sometimes we wanna fast forward. Yes. <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. Okay. Last quick fire and then we'll send it off. What are you working on now or one resource you would like to share?

Jena (01:00:02):

Yeah, so what I'm working on now, like I talked about, I have, I signed a three book deal, and so I'm actually finished, I've finished working on those books. And so I have a couple books coming up this year in August, I'll have a coloring book

Shanna (01:00:19):

That looks exciting.

Jena (01:00:21):

Yeah. Yeah. So I'll have book for women that talks about creativity. It's called Sacred Creativity.

Shanna (01:00:28):

Love It.

Jena (01:00:29):

And I have a coloring book that'll come out. And then I also have a creative workbook that comes out early next year. So that is something I've been head down knee deep working on. Yeah. But a big transition is coming to my business this year, <laugh>, so I'm starting to actually transition into teaching and coaching. Yeah. So that is something to look out for, something I'm working on, um, developing offers and kind of just getting started and coaching and, and I want to offer like a group coaching, um, a mentorship program. So that is kind of what's in the works right

Shanna (01:01:14):

Now. Yeah. That's so exciting because I think, I think, you know, so many people are sharing more of their journey and how they're like used, like we've been talking about like being a professional artist isn't Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is much more accessible than it used to be. Yeah. But I think still the illustration world, licensing world, all of that, I still feel like feels new.

Jena (01:01:37):

Yeah.

Shanna (01:01:38):

And so I, I love that you're going to share more of your journey and what you've learned.

Jena (01:01:43):

Yes. I'm excited for it. I think there's some things in our industry that, you know, just in the creative industry, it's like you don't have access unless you have experience. And I just want to be able to kind of break open some of those barriers with people and share what I can.

Shanna (01:01:58):

Yeah. Okay. This has been so wonderful. Thank you for sharing. Let's send it off. Yeah. And I wanna go back to 2016. You're going on maternity leave 2014, you start your blog, so you choose which one. But kind of going back to day one of either starting that blog or going on maternity leave, like, I think I'm gonna take this full time. What would you tell yourself now? Looking back?

Jena (01:02:24):

I think I would tell myself that things are gonna work out way better than you think they will. Yeah. Um, and then I would say like, just stay consistent. You know, just like, just keep going. I think if I would've heard that from myself, that would've filled me up in some tough days that like, okay, it's gonna work out. Yeah. But I mean, I've just learned so much. Maybe, maybe honestly what I would tell myself is like, soak up the lessons, like write 'em down. Yeah. And maybe that'd become a book one day or something. <laugh>. Yeah.

Shanna (01:02:55):

Yeah. So many lessons. I love Gina though, what you said about just keep going, just keep showing up because that is so much a part of the entrepreneurial journey.

Jena (01:03:08):

Yes.

Shanna (01:03:09):

Especially in the low moments when you're like, I don't know if this is gonna work, you know? Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> just keep showing up. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story and your journey, and it's just been a joy to get to know you.

Jena (01:03:23):

Thank you. I'm just so happy to be able to share and I thank you for, for having me.

Shanna (01:03:29):

Hey, wildflower, you just finished another episode of Consider the Wildflowers the podcast. Head over to consider the wildflowers podcast.com for show notes, resource links, and to learn how you can connect with Gina. One final thought for today from Suzy Cassim, doubt kills more dreams than failure ever will. As always, thank you for listening. I'll see you next time.