Episode 251 – Dr. Elizabeth Stuart Whitehead– Program Advocacy & Building a Stronger Art Studio

Advocating for your art program can feel like a daunting task! But you don’t have to do it alone. In this episode, The Creativity Department sits down with Dr. Elizabeth Stuart Whitehead, Visual Arts Supervisor for Prince George’s County, Maryland, to explore what effective advocacy looks like in action. Drawing from her own experience championing visual arts as a vital part of students’ day-to-day learning, Dr. Whitehead shares practical strategies to use right now. Tune in to learn how intentional advocacy can elevate your program and expand the impact of visual arts education in your community. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Hi everyone, I'm Laura Gremler.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

And I'm Matt Gremler, and today on K-12 Art Chat, the podcast, we'll be chatting with Dr. Elizabeth Stewart about program advocacy building a stronger art studio.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Okay. Hey, all right.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

This is a uh a new one.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Well, new but not new to me.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

I mean, uh I just meant our our we're we're in different places.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Oh that, yes. It's very different that you're like two hours different time zone than I'm in right now. And um, thank you for getting up early. Uh and yeah, although I think I could have talked to to Lisa all day by myself. I could I definitely could have done this by myself.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

I was sitting here to have you here. I was sitting here thinking that. So I was like, why am I here? I could be having coffee right now. Um no, we need you, Matt. We need you. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

Uh well, we have the amazing Dr. Elizabeth Stewart with us. Um, I call her Lisa, that's her nickname. Uh, I have kind of known her um over many years uh through Administrator Land in Arts Ed, but really had the the honor and pleasure of really getting to know her through South uh and and just following the great things she's doing. Yes, Matt?

SPEAKER_00 1:32

And I thought to meet her through Can. She was in my Can group.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

Oh, that's right. I forgot about that. All these overlapping connections. Yeah. Um truly, uh truly, Lisa, you're one of the most fabulous uh art educators that I can think of. You are relentless in your advocacy and tireless in your promotion of the importance of art ed in students' lives and and also taking care of your teachers. You do an amazing job of making sure that teachers are taken care of and they have what they need so that they can be the best advocates and teachers possible to to take care of those those students and really lift them up. So thank you for everything you do, first of all, and then thank you for being here. And I'm excited because we're gonna talk a little bit more about advocacy.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Laura, you're not allowed to start this with making me cry. I was like crying.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Laura, this is so not like you. You usually cry at the end, not the beginning. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

I do. There's usually tears at the end, but um thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

That was the most amazing introduction.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Oh well, we have a recording. I know you're you are incredibly um, you know, you just every award that I see that you've gotten, I'm like, yes, absolutely, 100 billion percent. She deserves that. You just knock it out of the park all the time. And I just really appreciate you and who you are and what you do, and I think uh like-mindedness in the the passion for it. So um just wanted to bring that out, just start there because it's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Um, thank you. I am so excited to be here. I I have so many things. I have like hopefully I'm gonna just drop some words of wisdom today. So I'm grateful for everything.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

That'll be our last question. So, you know, there's that. But um, yes, you will throughout.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

I have no doubt. Uh can you just I mean, if if you know someone listening to the podcast is unfamiliar with you, would you mind just starting uh with a little bit about your background and who you are as an art educator?

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Um so uh I think this is unusual, but I knew I wanted to be an art teacher when I was 16 years old.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

That is unusual.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

I I was in high school, I had an amazing art teacher. My parents were going through a divorce when I was in high school, and it was it was a really rough time for me to figure all of that out. And my art teacher just kind of took me under her wing, and uh I got to do some amazing things, a Saturday workshop at the Smithsonian. I uh went and did figure drawing as a 16-year-old, life drawing as a 16-year-old, um, which was also very unusual at the Corcoran in Washington, D.C. Um, and I loved working with children. And so um at 16 years old, I was like, this is it. I'm gonna be an art teacher. Um, my mother was a teacher, she taught first grade. She was like, I don't know, are you sure you want to be a teacher? And I was like, absolutely, mom. I'm I'm gonna do it, right? And so I did. Um, so I went to the University of Maryland. I received my bachelor's in art education. They have an amazing program there, Go Terps. Um then I started, I got a job right away, thank goodness. I was very um happy that I was able to do that. Uh, I taught in Montgomery County Public Schools, which is um right outside of Washington, D.C. in Maryland. I um was an uh elementary art teacher. I taught at Tacoma Park Elementary, and what's unusual about that school is it only um pre-K through second grade. So my oldest students were second graders, and my youngest students were four-year-olds. Um, and so I taught a lot of like basic skills, right? How to hold scissors, uh, holding pencils, gripping, all all of those things. And I loved it. Tacoma Park is an amazing community, very artistic community. Um, then after a few years, uh oh, and while I was at Tacoma Park, I was only there four days a week. So I was at another school one day a week where I taught on a cart. Okay. Right? And so I got to experience what this was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I taught kindergarten all day long, seven kindergarten classes in a row in one day. I just went from class to class to class teaching kindergarten. Um and then uh I worked, I moved to Cloverly Elementary, which is a pre-K through five school. Um at the same time, I was taking on leadership roles in the classroom. I had student teachers, I was writing curriculum, I was training new teachers during their first uh year, I was mentoring them. Um, and then I had the opportunity to take on a leadership role moving into central office as the content specialist for art and theater and dance, because the theater and dance did not have um really big support uh for them. So I said, well, I I will, in addition to visual art, I wanted to take on support for our theater and our dance teachers. So I did that for about seven years. Um, in that time, I got my master's at the Maryland Institute College of Art. Um, and one day I was sitting in a leadership meeting in Central Office, and someone uh I was sitting next to, we got into a conversation and she was like, You should get your administrator uh certification. And I was like, What is that? So we had this whole conversation about what is an admin one, why should I get it? Um, and I was like, Okay, that's it. I'm in. So I uh essentially she said to me, if you want to do anything in leadership beyond being uh at the teacher level, you need to have this certification. It's about 17, 18 credits. Um, so I just went to back to University of Maryland and picked up those credits and then uh from there um I was asked to apply to Prince George's County Public Schools, which is literally right next door to Montgomery County as the arts supervisor. Um there they had an amazing supervisor who was retiring, and I said, This is this is my next step. Incidentally, Montgomery County Public Schools was all I had ever known. I grew up there. I was a student there, so it was all I ever had ever known since I was in kindergarten myself. So I was ready for a leap. I was like, okay, this is a school system right next door, demographics, very different than the school system that I grew up in. And so I was ready for um something new and to learn beyond my comfort zone. Um, so I've been now the art supervisor in Prince George's County for 11 years. Um and then I was pushed or suggested that I should go get my doctorate, right? And so uh I have a doctorate not in art education, I have a doctorate with uh it's called educational leadership with a superintendent certification. And people are always asking me, do you want to be a superintendent? I was like, um I actually I actually don't want to be a superintendent. I mean, it's uh it's a 24, it's not even there, there isn't even enough hours in a day to be a superintendent. But here's how I look at both my admin one and my superintendent certification. Your admin one helps you think like a school leader, right? It helps you kind of see the system, see the school system, right, at the school level. And then your superintendent certification helps you think like a system level leader, right? So you see the entire school system. And both of those things have helped me advocate for my program within the school and then within the school system, right? When you can see how to think like an admin and how to think like a superintendent and where the visual art program fits and how we can make stronger connections.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Um wow. That was and that was just the introduction. That's pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

Uh wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, because there's more. I mean, the the other thing I do know about you, Lisa, is like you have this passion for digital uh arts and and uh media arts as well as visual arts. And I know that you have some uh Apple connections and some Adobe connections that you've brought into the school system. And so you've also done sound learning and work in that area, correct?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Oh yeah, absolutely. I would not say I was a big technology person um when I first started at in being a supervisor. And I my technology abilities have just totally grown so much over the last uh five, you know, seven years, I'd say. Um, and we were able to leverage some of the funds that we received um as a result of COVID to actually create an iPad Pro program in my school system where we have about 4,000 iPads that our high school students have one-to-one. Uh, and we have Apple and Adobe um partnerships. In fact, yesterday I was in Washington, D.C. We had about eight students who are our Adobe and uh uh Apple ambassadors. We went to the Apple store, they led us through several activities. Um, and our student then we went on a photo walk of Washington, D.C., and we learned photography techniques using our cell phones. Um, and it was just an amazing day. So um, myself and the media arts supervisor, I'm grateful that we have a media arts supervisor. Uh maybe a future uh spin-off um episode is to talk about media arts and and media having a media arts supervisor as an advocate. Definitely. Yeah. Um, and so I think that uh her and I, Selena Ward, we work very closely together in advocating for students to have creativity everywhere. That's what our iPads allow students to do, is take creativity beyond the school walls.

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Um Lisa, before I completely forget, um you had mentioned about your in your introduction part, you had mentioned about your high school art teacher.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Um, just want to know if you wanted to give a shout out to that person. Whether they're alive anymore or not, I don't know. But um they definitely deserve a shout out.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

So yes, yes. Thank you, Eugene Gentry. Uh I miss you. She actually asked if I would take over her position uh being a high sch a high school art teacher. And I was like, no, I was already in central office, and so um, you know, I was already on that pathway. But uh thank you, uh Mrs. Gentry, and I owe you so much because it all began with you.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Very cool. Thank you. Um, you know, uh art educators they feel like their hands are full just trying to manage the classroom, um, especially with all the different things that you were talking about trying to do as well. Why why should advocacy be as fundamental part of the job um rather than just extra? Because sometimes we get overwhelmed and we're like, I don't know. I don't know if I could even do that. I mean, and now how does that how does that advocacy uh directly impact student outcome?

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Yeah, uh it it does feel like a lot. And I do understand that. And I am always telling my teachers how important advocacy is to make sure that their program is centered in the school in some way. Um, I'm I'm encouraging them to display their work in the hallways, to make sure that they that changes frequently, that they have an explanation about the learning posted with it, um having the winter and the spring art exhibits uh and and making sure that those happen and and attaching those to the spring concerts or the plays that are happening in the school, right? Having that kind of all happen together as an arts showcase is really important. Having the work that their students are doing out in the community for them to, for the community to be able to see, having after-school clubs, and you can have a survey to gauge interest on that. Um, advocacy really protects access and quality, ensuring that visual art is a core part of the school experience and not something that just gets reduced or removed, right? Making sure that it's essential and uh and very important. And I think a lot of that happens when you really show the administration how valuable your program is, right? Um, I have never seen an administration that would deny an art teacher some budget money when they know how valuable that program is. They might have to figure out how they're gonna find some of that budget money, but they will kind of bend over backwards to figure out how to fund an art program when they when the administration feels that it is a valuable part of the community. Um, I think advocacy is directly tied to equity, making sure that you have access to a strong visual art program becomes uh sometimes it becomes inconsistent across schools and student groups, right? And so my superintendent right now is talking about something called variance and making sure that we reduce the variance in our school system. I have 208 schools in my school system. I'm in a very large district. And often from school to school, there's a lot of variance. This school has this, this school doesn't have this, right? And so that's been one of my big pushes is to, especially in my elementary program, making sure that there is consistency across all of those different schools, right? And so in some schools, in fact, this year, one of the things I'm doing right now is I get a little pot of budget money each year. And so I asked all my elementary schools who does not have printmaking supplies, right? If you do not, I want you to fill out this form. I'm buying you this kit of printmaking supplies so that every elementary school now is going to have the supplies to teach printmaking, right? So we notice sometimes if you don't have a lot of supplies, it becomes very drawing and painting heavy. And that's really the focus. But we want to make sure that we're also supporting the three-dimensional art program and the printmaking, right? And so um just having a nice variety of supplies uh is something that's important to me. So looking at how I as a supervisor can reduce some of those variants from school to school is important.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

I was just thinking as you were talking about that, about also from being an assistant principal for many years and then working at the district office, that we in the district used uh the at the same time a lot of Marzano's work, and there's this idea around a guaranteed and viable curriculum. And I would always say that's for all subject areas, not just the core curriculum, as as I think some principals are like, well, that only matters for math and science and English and social studies. And I'm like, no, if we're talking about this as a district mantra about a guaranteed viable curriculum, that's what we're talking about. And part of our guaranteed and viable curriculum for kids is that all kids have access to printmaking, all kids have access to to ceramics, you know, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

So yeah, absolutely. I'm I'm working on the kilns. Some of our buildings are pretty old and and can't actually take the wattage of a kiln. Um, so you know, that's another thing that uh we're trying to figure out. Okay, even if you can't do actual like clay and firing and glazing, right? Like what are the three-dimensional things that you still can do? So you're still learning those skills anyway. Oh, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

Cardboard. Cardboard air dry.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah, there's all there's all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

Yeah, yeah, lots of possibilities there. And I I will also say that um when I first started in the county 11 years ago, the the elementary program, we didn't have a full-time teacher in every single school. Some of our teachers at that time uh were part-time in between multiple and you know, like four, four to five schools. Wow, talk about burnout. And some schools, some schools were not, some schools had full-time teachers, so there was a lot of variance happening. So these kids in this school was getting different art time than these kids over here in this school, right? And so creating that like consistency across the county was definitely what I have spent a large uh majority of my 11 years working on. And so now I can say that every school has visual art in elementary for 40 minutes once a week, um, at minimum, right? And so uh that's that's I'm really, really proud of that accomplishment.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Well, you should be, and I believe that you you've increased your your staff like I think by a third, like a hundred, like a hundred plus teachers, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

When I started um in 2014, I had 220 art teachers total across uh pre-K through um 12. Now I have 330 art teachers. That's amazing.

unknown 19:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Um, you know, Lisa, I think you bring up a really good point with um, you know, all the different things you were talking about that weren't just I think a lot of times people get hung up on the word advocacy and think it means getting out in front of someone saying, This is why my job's important, this is why this is important, this is why.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

Oh, the elevator speech, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:03

And but there's so much more and other ways in which to advocate that doesn't necessarily require you to be out in front, but just makes you more visible. And I think, you know, whether it's putting up artwork, like you were saying, in between different shows and doing it so often, you know, to promoting this or that, or having it up in the school or in a library, you know, or somewhere where it's starting to just be seen. And that that is to that other point you were making about the administrator. There, there I've had those experiences where I've come to my admin and said, Hey, you know what, I'm really tight on budget. And they said, Okay, well, we'll you get us the the write-up of what you think it'll cost, and we'll figure out a way to make it work. So um, you know, there are so many avenues in which to advocate.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah, absolutely. Um it, you're right. It doesn't just have to be artwork up in the school, but I think that that is really important, right? Um, but any any little bit that you can work with your administration, I mean, there's a whole movement in arts integration, right? And so what if we're able to go into our language arts uh data and look at, okay, where where is the I'm giving an example, the second graders having the most amount of trouble in their um, you know, reading. And is there a way visual art can support that? Right. So I really feel like this is a uh if if I could in a perfect world, I would have everyone um go get their admin one. I would I would have every art teacher go get their admin one, right? Not that like I need, well, that could also be cool is to take every teacher and then put them in principal roles, and now every art teacher. runs the school. Oh, that's the best. Oh, it's the best.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

I can tell you that with my my art teachers were so appreciative when I was their, you know, evaluator as a campus administrator. It was, they were like, this is a game changer. This is a whole different world for me, you know, and and just that piece, you know, I really think this speaks to our next question about the language of art education and the language of education. So, you know, sometimes art educators feel a little intimidated speaking to an administrator or even maybe a school board member. And maybe because our language is uh as art educators is slightly different than the more global education speak. And it seems like they get maybe concerned that there might be a loss in translation. And I'm curious what you feel are the most effective narratives or even data points, you kind of mentioned that, that resonate with uh with the the people that are making the decisions and how you can prioritize um you know the arts as a as an integral part of your school or uh school system.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah. So one of the biggest pieces of advice I have is to invite all of those leaders to everything you possibly can. And year after year, even if they say no, right? Invite them again, invite them again. Eventually they'll say yes and um invite the principal invite the district leaders and central office invite school board members invite the superintendent. Right. And I think that um once they come and they see how how important your program is um that will help kind of make those connections for them that they didn't maybe quite understand before. And I think as much as you can connect to district priorities and outcomes like read your strategic plan. You once you can figure out where you fit into that strategic plan and you can articulate that to administrators and to central office and even to the superintendent then I mean that's that's super important. And and it also gives your superintendent and those who actually speak uh on behalf of the school system at various events the ability to understand how the arts fit, right? And then they can articulate that when they are out there talking about the whole county. So um I think read your strategic plan uh and and really look for okay when this is when I when we talk about um you know well-rounded curriculum visual art is part of that right and so if that's part of a strategic plan then this is where I fit right um so take a look take a look at that strategic plan and then I think um data we all we talked about data um having that data start collecting that data right so what are your enrollment trends what are your course completion rates what are your what's your participation across student group student differ different student groups what are your um students who um uh come to school every day right we already know that students love the arts and they want to come to school for that right so what's your attendance data what are your students' um GPAs and then uh start to disaggregating that data for like who has that who has access and who doesn't who's in your classes and who's not one of the things I did um a few years ago was I started looking at our AP students our our access to our advanced placement coursework and I noticed that out of the students taking AP classes predominantly most of them were uh females and not males and so what's what's happening there right like so we've got all these kids taking our art one class and then they take an advanced class and then they go into an AP class but but we're somehow like we're losing our males in in that right and so start having those conversations and noticing that data um I think is really important. And then stories stories illustrate impact anytime that you can have a student tell a story go to a um you know the open mic at the board meetings to advocate for you parents to advocate for you those are the things that the leaders want to hear they want to hear those stories. So that that's what's going to make that memorable impactful and pull at their heartstrings.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

I love that and I think you've also done a nice job of getting your students in front of your communications department and how let letting them shine in in video form which then you can use on social media and in other ways but you're really good about getting your students and your teachers in front of the camera too.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

Yeah um getting to know uh so if when you're in a school like getting to know the strategic people in that school to help make the school run is really important right when you're in a central office level getting to know the strategic people at the central office level communications department your IT department your HR department right um the the budget department all of those people having like uh you know um specific people in each of those departments that you can go and ask questions like those are super super important so um making sure that you connect with them invite them to things right I noticed that um in the iPad program that we were talking about I we brought in IT on the ground level before we even rolled out all these iPads and our IT department was like wow thank you this is very unusual to be involved in the actual process of implementing as opposed to here we already bought all these devices here IT go make it happen right and so when you bring in people on the ground level in your planning and then show them the power of what's been happening or what could happen then there's a lot more buy-in yeah well that pretty much uh summed up the next question already but uh um oh but there's always more Matt oh there I know I mean yes from her notes that she put in here yeah I know there's more um you know advocacy as you were just saying as we I think we've always said is is not really something you try to do on your own because it's almost impossible. Um for an educator to look to grow their program how can they effectively engage parents and community members to be to continue to be more of a vocal uh champion for them for in their in their in their districts for yeah thank you I I I feel like you know like I said inviting the parents to speak or the students to speak at any school board meetings or anytime you can create a video showcasing your program um and and getting that out there is really important. Again making that work really visible and accessible beyond the hallway displays but what social media does your school have a social media account and how how often is visual art represented in that social media account? Are there family art nights where students can and parents and families can come to the school and make art together I think is important. When those the families really see the impact then they're even more likely to value and advocate for the art program. And so invite them to be partners in your program and not just observers or not just participants right like do you might you want to have a parent advocacy group or a parent group where you can go and ask questions and say like you know would this be better or would this be better right having those parents who are um interested in providing feedback on your program I think would be really important. What kinds of do you have any parent artists who would want to come and be like a a guest presenter or guest artist are there um one of the things I did when I was in elementary school when I taught elementary is I had a parent who was a very strong advocate um Rula McCarthy I'll I'll pull I'll pull her out as well she um helped create a mural a giant mural in my school she designed it we worked with a local artist each student created a tile um and she was a huge advocate in helping me get that uh get that mural which is still there to this day um and so like find find those parent advocates who are willing to work with you and and create these large scale big projects we had a big unveiling it was absolutely amazing um and then you know communicating that why in clear language we talked about you know data and making sure you really understand what the principals have to kind of do um and making sure that that you're able to kind of speak their language and um know the timing of when it's appropriate to ask for certain things um I think is important. Building those sustained relationships I think that's one thing if I could we'll go we'll go to uh making sure I say this at the end too but uh one really big thing is relationship building as much as you can build relationships and if you get a no that doesn't mean no forever that just means no not right this minute that's right right so okay wait a few and ask again yeah actually that made me think too you know one of the other like works that I would consider is if your school district has a foundation get to know those foundation members get to know you know and a lot of them are connected to larger philanthropic opportunities and then they can connect you to other opportunities from there.

SPEAKER_02 32:40

I was very involved um in getting to know our foundation members and one of them had a connection to Fossil that happens to be based here in the Dallas area you know the watch and accessory company they're all designers they all have an art background getting into that fossil office and getting to meet them then I had a whole crew of people that was supporting the visual and and media arts you know and and then you know they also have a little money to throw at things so getting in that foundation can be key.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Yeah yeah I agree.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Lisa you were also talking about you know getting students to kind of be the face of your program um something that I have been doing over the last couple of years is that our our school does a a fifth grade demo day where um our feeder elementary schools come to our campus and they get to kind of hear a little bit about the different programs. You know, I got away from doing it myself like me being the presenter because I'm like this is just this really I said I want the kids doing it. I want them to be selling it selling it I know it sounds bad but selling the program to be saying hey look this is what we were doing and they even show some of like their digital portfolio to like you know hey this is the process for this project or this was my favorite project that we worked on. And so like they get so I have like five kids that I I pick from the year that I have you know primarily eighth graders but kind of pulled them up and then they promote that to the fifth graders.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

So that's that's really brilliant. The iPad program I was talking about we became an Apple Distinguished program through it and we had Apple come and and just kind of come see the program in action um because this is across 24 high schools and it was a bit unusual that we had one program in 24 different high schools. Yeah and uh there one of their biggest pieces of feedback was because we were lead the adults were leading them around right and explaining the program and they said we want to hear more from the students. We want to hear what the students are getting out of it. And that is how we began our ambassador program. Right because it was like I love it they don't adults don't want to hear in in education adults don't want to hear from too many adults they want to hear directly from the students right and because it is clear it it becomes more clear because the student is talking about yeah them like themselves. So yeah and so that's um you know just I'm gonna go straight into the next question but yeah I was gonna say how do you make it visible like and I I did want to pull out in the next question um you happen to be in a state that has a really highly connected arts network.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

I think that that's something that is I wouldn't say unique necessarily but like I know for Texas um you know we have a great Texas Art Ed program but we don't have a an advocate in in a larger sense.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

And I think you um seem to know each other really well as administrators and as art educators and and I did want to pull that out in that question and just say like beyond just at the district level at a state level how do you you know look for innovative ways to make art visible yeah um thank you for pulling that out so in the state of Maryland we do have arts education in Maryland schools um they are a great advocacy group they come together and they bring they bring us all together to for arts advocacy and they're constantly working with us as supervisors for ways to do that. And one of the um things that you'll have access to after this podcast is how to think like an admin which is a document that Ames produced and uh so it's it's another way that they're constantly supporting um arts in the state of Maryland. So another thing that I highly recommend is leveraging your digital platforms for that storytelling. You know we talked about making sure that we have our stories that are out there write a grant to get an ad uh to get an iPad and uh road uh lapel mic get a lapel mic right and those two things will talk to each other and you can just take those around and introduce students and and uh you know talk to them about why is art so important. Just ask them that one question and they will say the most amazing things and then you can you know use the software to lace all that together and then you're you know putting that um on your website or on social media. And then uh I'll give everyone a little hint but one of my biggest interview questions that I ask teachers is um what are the ways that they involve the community? What are ideas that they have to involve the community in their program right because I want to hear that they are already thinking with an advocate mindset before I even hire them. Right. So um one of the biggest pieces of advice that I always give uh when I'm working with university students and um talking to them about getting jobs is I say before you go on a job interview get in your car go go to the school and then I want you to drive the neighborhood and I want you to take stock of all the different um possible businesses community resources um and you know uh different parks is there a community center is there a library right what are the what are the assets that that community has um this is actually part of a doctoral class that I'm teaching right now um which is on community school and family partnerships and they have to create a community asset map so they're doing this very thing and but what I tell uh teachers before they interview with principals is find out what are some of those community resources and like bring that into your interview. Have a conversation about hey maybe you know in this library I I walked into the library the other day and noticed there's a big blank wall. Maybe we can put artwork up in that library. You would blow a principal away if in an invert interview you already started talking about community partnerships, right? So I think that's also really important and and a great way to advocate um some of those ways to make your art visible out in the community. And then Laura you're right we we have just a very strong program here in the state of Maryland. I am lucky and fortunate to to work here um we have a very strong program at the state level uh in the arts um we also have really great arts supervisors around the state that I can call up in any one uh moment in time and I wish I could shout every one of them out i we'd be here for a long time but they all know who they are we we all have each other on speed dial um and we connect all the time and are constantly sharing resources and ideas or things where you know someone will mention something and I'll be like oh I'm I'm gonna try that in my school system right and so it's really nice to have that kind of cohort and group and so if you're a supervisor out there listening to this and you need somebody to talk to call me up because I think it's really important that we connect with supervisors just across the entire country.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Yeah well you're great at that by the way uh you know I think I mean I I'm coming from a very even though I'm not outside of the school system now I have been paying um as a parent a lot very close attention to the constraints on school systems especially here in Texas and um most districts are running an incredibly deficit budget with um school closures. We're having to close a lot of schools like the the reality is especially in some states that the we have been underfunded for a significant amount of time and um there's just there is a scarcity of money and education currently at least where I live and I know that when I worked in the school system one of the the struggles I had was kind of going back to those variances. You know I would have teachers with an excellent budget, you know, and I I did the math I did a per pupil allotment math kind of to illustrate that where I could show that one teacher had 42 cents per student for the entire year and another teacher might have $4.90 per teacher or per student per year. And there was a the there was a great disparity in that and what I would try to look at is how can there's no way they can teach the same curriculum in it in art education because our curriculum is very materials based. And I'm curious what advice you have for a teacher that's facing that kind of challenge or you know maybe they've just never had things and they've just kind of gotten into the scarcity mindset of, you know what, I'm just going to make do because they've been told no over and over again. How can they change that conversation and work towards a place where there's investment in their program investment in their students and they see they can really grow their program.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah so I think that um one like I said before about uh kind of showing the the principal how valuable your program is where it connects where you fit with their school goals I think is really really important once I you know once a principal sees that I I have a hard time believing that a uh principals would say sorry I don't have any money for you they will at least figure out how to find the money somewhere right um even if it's not in in their local uh school funds they will at least connect you with someone who who could potentially raise the money or find the money or they will at least support if you want to do a donor's choose if you want to talk to the PTA if you want to write a grant if you want to um go out into the community and you need a letter from the principal saying may I have X supplies at the very least when you have a principal who believes in the power of your program um you will you will have their support for all of those things. I understand that right now is is tough with budgets uh in education it kind of feels like it always has been but for some reason this year feels even more I would yeah more challenging. We're losing students in my school system And each student uh attaches to a dollar amount. So if for every student we lose, that's dollars that we aren't receiving in funding. And so that's really challenging. Um, so I think one of the things I'm working on right now for we have a back to school meeting where we bring all 330 teachers together uh once a year. And I'm having we have a teacher advocate who's just really good at finding all the all the extras. Like, you know, she's just really good at collecting resources. And um, so she's creating a presentation right now that she's gonna give at my back to school meeting on how to run an art program on little to no budget. Um, and so you know, I think that's that's really important because there are things that like we can go out into the community, especially once you've made those connections, right? It's all kind of comes together. Once you make those connections, it's hey, so-and-so uh business, might you be able to donate either a product or or some money, right? And that we can then give you a shout out in our newsletter or right, and so it's kind of like bringing those things all together. Um, also, I think it's important, and this goes back again to the admin one. I'm gonna say it again. If you know how your school is funded, right? We have something called school-based budgeting. So our principals, uh, about a month ago, within the last month, got their budgets, and then they get to decide where they're gonna put what money, right? And so, in about the January, February time frame, that's when I tell my teachers to write a nice email directly to their principal saying, um, you know, I know school-based budgeting timeline is coming up. Uh, and these are the supplies that I will need for next year. Here's a dollar amount that I'll need, you know, maybe it's a thousand dollars or uh two thousand, depending upon how many students you have in the school. Again, going back to Laura, what you said about a per pupil amount, right? So coming up with a dollar amount. Some principals want to know a dollar amount, some principals just say, send me a list, we'll see what we can order. So understanding what your principal wants is important, but that timeline, understanding what a school system goes through in their budgeting timeline is really important because you need to know the right time to ask. Because I get a lot of teachers who come to me and say, I asked my principal for money. They said there's no money, and it's just the wrong time of year to ask for money, right? And so knowing when the right time of year to ask for money is is really, really important.

SPEAKER_02 46:45

I will throw out though, sometimes, and this just depends on how tightly or not tightly the budget has been managed by the principal. Sometimes you get towards the end of the school year, like April, and the principal there is a unfortunate lose it or use it kind of budget thing in education. And sometimes the principal might have a little extra in a pot, honey, like a little pot that they've got, you know, okay, I needed this just in case. And then it comes to that end of the year, and they might be able to help you float through the end of the year. You know, and I there's different philosophies about this, but maybe that little end of the year supplement, if you can get it, helps you start the next school year too.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 47:31

Um, that's something to think about. And then the other thing I would say is, you know, unfortunately, not all districts have a you, not all districts have an art supervisor. If you can figure out who your teacher leaders are in your district and be honest with each other and look and and I mean, just you know, this was sometimes, especially when I started, it was hard. Our teachers were real protective of like, especially the ones that had a healthy budget, did not want to share how much they were getting with teachers that they knew did not have a healthy budget. And trying to open up conversation with your colleagues about, you know, if we can show that there's inequity across the district, then and we can share that story and how then, you know, understand that nobody wants to take anything away from anybody else. But to be able to just illustrate that story to the administrators is is important to say, you know, I do know that when I would go to principals and say, You are you're giving your kids, your teachers, they're getting 49 cents worth of art supplies for the entire year. But the a comparable school five minutes down the road is getting four dollars and something. That was like a real eye-opener. And it that never translated in principal going, oh my gosh, I gotta call them and say, give give your teacher less. That never happened. It was more like putting pressure on that principal to say, oh, I didn't realize, you know, that we were we weren't providing an equable opportunity to the school down the street because they literally want to, I mean, this sounds terrible, but they want to compete, right? They want to be on par with those other schools. Absolutely. And I I think that that is is something that can be uncomfortable. But if you can work with your colleagues to kind of pull out those data points and and share a visual story, talking about data visualization right now, um, that that can be really powerful as well.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um for sure. I think that uh showing teachers, I one of the things I say is so if you need something, you know you need it, you need to just have that order ready to go. Because a principal might say, I gotta spend this money, I need to spend it by tomorrow. Right? Here's my order, right? Or have it already turned in and just say, Hey, um, Mr. So and so, if you get any extra money, I really need white paint. I am out of white paint. So if you have any additional funding, here you go. Here's my order for white paint. And then um uh a material swap, right? Like talking about getting to know your teacher leaders, like, can you swap materials? For some reason, I had a lot of magenta paint. I don't know why, but I did. It was like at some point, uh, it was misordered or something. And so, like, I had, you know, just an enormous amount of magenta paint. And so, is there a way that you all could come together as a team and really like swap some materials that are just have been sitting in your closet that you know you are never going to go through in the however many more years of teaching you have? Right. So think about that too.

SPEAKER_00 50:47

I uh Lisa, I you know, when you are answering the other question and even into that point necessarily, when you are talking with your administration, there is a way to present it, to be an advocate for yourself that is not just I don't have, or I don't have this, or I don't have that, or I need this and I can't afford it. But if you present it to your administration with, hey, I've got this solution, potential solution, I've got this potential solution. And as you were talking about the interview of how you would, you know, those people that are coming into your district to uh what they would do to build the community to have ideas, to have suggestions, yeah, you know, because they don't administrators, and we've talked about this before, administrators when they hear a teacher coming in with I don't have or I need and I'm not doing this, then they're they're less likely to kind of be um on the want to help, I guess, is is kind of how to say that. Whereas if you're coming in more with problem with solution-oriented rather than problem-oriented, then they're then they're at least if they shoot down a couple ideas and be like, no, sorry, that one won't work, but they can then say, hey, you know what, that idea actually we can probably make that work.

SPEAKER_01 52:18

So yeah, absolutely. That that's a really good point, Matt. Like having multiple solutions to the problem principles deal with problems all day long. All day long. Right. And so when they can easily see, like, here's my problem, here are five solutions, which one of these or which two of these, or you know, which direction should I go in?

SPEAKER_00 52:41

Which or which one can we afford to do? I mean, it's really what it comes down to. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

And I think another really important thing is take the eye out of it. Yeah, this uh this is I know I understand this is your art program, right? But they don't want to hear, I need this, I need that for my art program, right? This is for the students. The students need this, the students need these art supplies to for me for for me to successfully teach the curriculum that the students need to have. Yeah, these are the supplies that the students need.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

Yep, absolutely. Um, oh my goodness. Um I think uh, you know, I I I know you and Laura could probably talk for uh days um upon end, but I don't think we quite have the um the recording airtime for that. But um, you know, as we as we start to wrap up our our podcast, um, you know, what's what's what's the the the last bits of advice or you want to leave with our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 53:50

Yeah, I I think there was a lot that was mentioned here today. I know lots of people like to listen to podcasts when they're driving in their cars on the way to work, but I highly recommend that you listen to this podcast when you're not driving and write down all the ideas. If there were any ideas that really resonated with you, anything that you're like, okay, I I can take this on, right? Write down all the ideas that maybe you've never tried before. And then um pick one or two things that you feel like are doable that you could take on this school year. Um, I'm big on goals and goals and actions, right? So write that down, make a chart. What is the one or two actions that you might take on between now and the end of the school year or for the beginning of next school year? Um, and then write down like what's the end goal, and then write down what are some actionable steps that you can take to get yourself to that end goal, and then assign yourself deadlines, right? By when will I do which part of these actions? Have a conversation with the secretary, learn um what school, if we have school-based budgeting, or learn when the budget cycle is, right? And and then take those actionable steps to get yourself there. Um, if you are all by yourself, uh you're the only R teacher out of school, have the maybe partner with a music teacher and the two of you um hold each other accountable on some of those deadlines. If you are fortunate enough to have a team of our teachers at your school, present some of your ideas and see if other people are willing to support you in that and take on some of those actions, right? Um, and then every year just repeat that with what's your next goal? What's your next goal, right? What am I gonna do? I talk about this with my teachers. What am I gonna do to move the needle forward? Right? It's all about moving the needle forward. So, what are those small steps that I'm gonna take each year to move that needle forward? And then I think um the biggest thing is it's really all about the students. It's not about you, it's their program. So making sure that you kind of change that mindset when you're talking about your program um and asking that that these are things that that we need for the students.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

Amazing. Uh, I think this is a very, very valuable podcast, and I hope that everyone listening uh took away some really actionable items as I did. And uh Elizabeth, Lisa, thank you so much. Um you're just brilliant, and I cannot wait to have you back on the podcast for a couple other ideas we have around different conversations.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

Thank you so much. This was lovely being here. Again, I'm serious. If you're listening to this and you want to have a conversation, email me. Uh they'll have you'll have access to my email. Um, reach out, let me know if you have any other questions, even if you just need a thought partner. I'm stuck on this one thing. I haven't been able to move the needle forward. Sometimes just sharing you what you've already done and getting some extra help and support is what's needed. So reach out.

SPEAKER_02 57:01

Thanks so much. Thank you, Lisa. Until next time. Thank you. So you always say so. Uh reflection time.

SPEAKER_00 57:12

Reflections. Um, you know, she is she is an amazing individual. Um, lots of ideas, lots of high quality leadership. So I am.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

I think it's it's concrete. And you know, something she said at the end is like take one or two of them. You don't have to do everything. You know, I think when you're building a program or you're advocating for a program, you know, students first, always students first, like where you know your curriculum is and all of those things, and making sure that students are are instructed well and cared for, that's always the first. So, you know, this the advocacy obviously dovetails with that, but don't try to take on too much, you know, especially if you're a first or second year teacher. Well you take a little bit at a time.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

I was gonna say you get caught up as as creatives, we get caught up in the uh the excitement of the interest of, oh my gosh, I want to do this, I want to do this. Yeah, we all want to do it all, but we can't always.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

And so in the first or second year, it could it could be as simple as making sure that you have your bulletin boards up and that you're changing them regularly and you're putting artwork out there. And then with the artwork, you're printing out your lesson plan and putting the standards there, you know, so that you know, because I don't know how if you've ever been asked this, Matt, or said people are like shocked that art education has standards. Has that ever happened to you?

SPEAKER_00 58:38

Where they're like, oh, I didn't know. Well, I'm it's not that I've not that I've had them ask me that, but I've definitely uh had people say, Oh, you you uh this is this is really interesting, you know, this is really good to see what their goal is. And I'm like, right we have these things.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

We have there's essential questions in art education and that there are standards in art education, and that we're trying to achieve a certain outcome. Absolutely. Um I think that I think that all of what she offered was solid and sound, and and you could take it bite-size. And and and the other piece I I think that really resonated with me is don't don't do it alone. You know, find your community, find your people, find your advocates, find those that'll speak loudly for you, have those students speak, have the parents speak.

SPEAKER_00 59:28

I mean, that's what K-12 has always been about is is finding support with each other and using that to elevate yourself as an educator.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

So absolutely. So, you know, talking about the the resources and some of the things that that Lisa shared, Matt, where can people go to find those? Because I think that beyond listening to this, they're really gonna want to dig into some of those resources.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

Well, because there was so much, um, the best place to look is gonna be uh davistart.com. Uh underneath free resources, you'll find K12R chat and you'll find Lisa's episode along with all of our other episodes that uh will have a connected resource page that will have all the links for each uh from each guest.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:17

That's right. And and Lisa also said that you can reach out to her, so that's where you can find her email address and uh be able to reach out to her and ask questions directly. And speaking of that, Matt, we always like it if people reach out to us too. So how can we do like it?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:32

Yeah, we like when people reach out to us. You can either reach out to us through social media uh on our Instagram at creativity or uh, you know, a good old-fashioned email of the creativity at gmail.com. We would love to hear uh, you know, your thoughts on the topics or maybe a new topic or even a new guest that you'd like us to talk with.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Absolutely. So the last thing that I would ask our listeners is um, you know, if you want to help keep our podcast alive and going, um, please subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast. So um, whether that be Apple or Amazon or Spotify, just make sure that you subscribe and then like, review, um, and rate the podcast just so that we can have that feedback. Um, we're always looking to improve, just like you are as educators. And then, very most of all, thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate all of you. We know how hard the work is, and we wish you the most creative week ahead.