Navigating Modern Parenting: Family Therapy and Support for Teens in the Digital Age

Are you feeling overwhelmed by the challenges of parenting teens in today's digital age? Join me as I chat with Shelby Riley, a family therapist with over 20 years of experience, about her systemic approach to family therapy involving parents, siblings, and friends to create a robust support network for teens navigating heightened anxiety, depression, and identity issues in our constantly connected world.

We dive into the impact of social media and the COVID-19 pandemic on teens, offering insights on how to recognize and respect each child's unique needs and experiences while acknowledging the role of privilege. Shelby shares her expertise on navigating conversations around LGBTQ+ issues with openness, respect, and safety, as well as strategies for monitoring technology usage and establishing healthy boundaries within the family.

We discuss the importance of involving parents in therapy while addressing the challenges of guiding teens through tough topics. We also explore creative ways to disconnect from devices and foster genuine connections within the family unit. Tune in for valuable insights and practical advice that will empower you to become a more understanding and effective parent in the modern world.

Introduction to our guest:

Shelby Riley graduated with a master’s degree in marriage and family therapy from Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University and is a licensed marriage and family therapist in the state of Pennsylvania. She has been practicing for over twenty years and worked in shelters, group homes, psychiatric hospitals, residential treatment facilities and outpatient practices before opening a private practice in San Diego, CA in 2003. After moving to Chester County, PA in 2005, she opened a private practice in 2006 and added associates in 2011. She specializes in couple therapy and sand tray and play therapy with children and adolescents. She also offers EMDR. In addition to therapy, Shelby also provides clinical supervision and professional practice building coaching to other therapists across the U.S.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Okay, hi, shelby, finally we made it And thank you so much for, you know, re-recording the podcast and giving me that much time again, so I really really appreciate it. So, as we had discussed, you know, in the first recording, i'm really I was so excited to have you on the show because we both work with teens and parents And it's exciting because I can actually talk to a peer right And as therapists we struggle so much with kind of working within the family unit. That's my experience And so it's very kind of exciting and engaging for me to have this conversation with you about family therapy, working with teenagers, adolescents, and I'm curious to kind of know what your approach has been to working with teens and families.

Speaker 2: 1:18

Yeah, so I love working within the family unit. I know a lot of therapists find it difficult And the really individual therapy I think just feels so much cleaner and easier because you've just got this one person and their perspective to really take in. But I kind of feel like the more people in the room that are part of the system, the more information I get and the more change. So I absolutely love working with kids and teenagers and then really being able to bring in their parents as much as possible, siblings as much as possible. I've even done some sessions where we bring in their best friends because that's a really important part of their really social network and their support system. So, yeah, the way I work with teens and families is very systemic And what you also want to think about is, developmentally, the stage that they're at. So when I'm working with younger teens, i will probably have their parents in a little bit more.

Speaker 2: 2:24

What I really like to do and how I structure things is to have everybody come in at first, like 10 minutes of the session And just to say how has the week been And what's everybody noticing. I'm pretty solution focused and strength based, so I start from what's better this week, what have you noticed? Because sometimes I think people have a tendency to think therapy is the place where you come and you say all the bad stuff that went down, and so I think it's really important to ask parents what have you been impressed with, what have you noticed that feels better? Asking the teenagers, what are your parents doing that's helping? And then, yeah, any concerns, any things that were really tough this week, and then having some of that individual time.

Speaker 2: 3:10

Teenagers are individuating right From their families, they are launching, they're becoming their own people And so, having some of that private time to really explore what are they thinking and feeling, do they have some things they need to say that might feel really uncomfortable if their parents hear it, or really disrespectful if their parents hear it. And then at the end of the session, for the last five minutes, bringing everybody back in together to kind of recap and say, okay, these are sort of the themes of today. This is what we kind of talked about. Here's the homework I'd like each of you to be focused on, so that it's not just the teenagers responsibility to make the changes and practice the changes. It's also the parents and maybe some of the siblings that are involved in making some of the changes and practicing those at home.

Speaker 1: 4:01

Wow, i love that. I love that, and I'm one of those therapists who kind of struggles with having many people in the room, although ultimately I love working with families.

Speaker 1: 4:13

It's just, i think my own anxiety, probably as a parent too, that comes up. But I love the fact that you have this structure in your session right, where you involve the parents, you involve siblings Wow, you involve their best friends, which I honestly had not thought about. And then having parents come back in and having all of them do some homework together or and individually, because a lot of times I also see parents saying, okay, you can work with my teen, quote unquote, fix them, and then you know we are good to go. All the problem lies there. So what are some of the things that you are seeing working with teens and families, like some of the struggles right When they come into your, your office, into into the session. What are some of the things that you kind of watch for, if you will.

Speaker 2: 5:23

I've been doing this since gosh like. I got my master's in 99. And I started working with kids and teenagers as part of my training in my master's program. So I've been doing this since like 1997 or something right, really long time And some of the things remain the same, you know they're. they're that sense of self, that like really exploring who am I in relation to the world, who am I in relation to my family, how do I know what's good for me versus good for other people? So it's like all of that sort of just like growing up stuff is all still there.

Speaker 2: 6:05

But I think this generation right now, i'd say the last 10 years, have been incredibly different, and then the last five years has been even more different, i think, with phones and there's a lot of access to material. that is an age appropriate and feels overwhelming. You know back, you know in the early 2000s, if somebody was struggling with eating disorder or some sort of ideas about not feeling worthy or whatever, they would deal with that like sort of within a much smaller circle and really only have kind of their own ideas and their own like immediate friends ideas. And now they've gotten entire internet to where, if you type in self harm as a teenager well as anyone, right. but like you can go down this incredible rabbit hole of all of these different methods of which to harm yourself, like these how to, videos of how to harm yourself, eating disorder, rabbit holes around, like all the kind of ways to binge and purge and restrict and how to get away with it and like. so it just feels like it's deeper and bigger and a lot riskier these days, and so I think teens are way more anxious than they ever used to be because they've got so much coming at them. we could look at social media and talk a lot about like that sense of self and creating a self for people to then like and you know, like how do I get the kind of attention that I need? How do I manage the way people think and post about me? that FOMO, right. Like if I wasn't invited to a party, i might know about it and then I'd have to hear about it later, but I don't have to see a thousand pictures in real time of the party that I wasn't invited to, right? It's really really a very different world.

Speaker 2: 8:08

And like, yes, we might have done some really risky things, but it was in a really small context where now, if you're taking nude photos of yourself and you're sharing them with one person and that one person shares them with 10 people, and those 10 people share them like all of a sudden, i mean, this really small risky move that you made is out there for everybody to know about and it doesn't go away. You know, in my day people would forget, like it's no longer interesting, but this picture is there forever and it can get reshared and can get re-broad up, and so I think what we're seeing is a really heightened experience of anxiety and depression and risk, which feels really scary. There's a lot more suicidal thinking. there's a lot more suicidal kind of exploration, you know, in terms of you know, yeah, it just is something that we have learned to manage.

Speaker 2: 9:10

20 years ago, if I had a teenager who was suicidal, it was a really big deal, and now every teenager that I have at some point will probably talk about some suicidal thinking, if not a suicidal plan.

Speaker 2: 9:22

you know that it's just a very different age we live in, and so helping teenagers manage all of that and giving them a safe space and a safe adult with which to really talk through some of these things feels really more important than ever.

Speaker 2: 9:37

but also helping the parents, like how do they respond on a daily basis at home?

Speaker 2: 9:43

How do they set limits so that their child isn't exposed to all of this stuff? but they haven't gone so far as to disconnect them from all of those sort of social platforms that feel like, well, that's where social currency lies, that's where connection is, and so it's just a really whole new world that we're helping families navigate. And then on the other, you know kind of end of the spectrum, there's some really cool stuff that's going on that we didn't use to see as often in terms of really exploring, like gender identity, sexual orientation, a lot more freedom to really explore like who am I and how do I want to express myself and how do I want to present myself to the world, and so I think that's a really wonderful cool thing that teenagers have a lot more leeway to explore. but it can also feel overwhelming, and I think the thing we see is it's very scary to parents because it isn't something that the parents had a lot of permission to explore, and so it feels pretty foreign and pretty scary to them.

Speaker 1: 10:48

Yeah, you touched on so many different points And I think sort of as you were talking about parenting right like teens now. So, first of all, with social media and kind of just the internet as a whole, like this rabbit hole of information, that plethora of almost like so much information that we don't even know how to handle it. So the neuroscience, the brain stuff is another big thing like we can talk about. But I'm also thinking in terms of sort of the way we parent is the way we have been parented right, and so our parents did not have sort of this new thing of social media, internet, and so they parented differently. We learned that that was something either we accepted, rejected somewhere in between, and a lot of times we use those tools to parent our kids And now it's not working Like if.

Speaker 1: 11:57

I were to say, hey, i grew up with no phones, so now you keep away your phone and you're never, ever gonna get your phone unless I tell you at this time. And yes, our parents also had their own challenges with us, but I think this is something so new that it's really like kind of almost like overwhelming. And as a parent, i'm constantly unsure of those boundaries around social media, and so when parents come in with sort of, okay, quote, unquote, take care of my teen and what's going on with them, i'm constantly wondering, okay, how are you parenting? What is going on there, right? Like, what are some of the tools that you can use? Like you mentioned, kind of figuring that piece out?

Speaker 1: 12:56

I'm kind of also wondering how COVID has changed all of this, right? Yeah, kids are more anxious. They're kind of having, you know, suicidal ideation plans, self harm, eating disorders I mean we've seen such a big rise in that. How would you explain to a parent of a teen you're working with in terms of how COVID has affected teens? Because, like I said, a lot of parents who are kind of from quote unquote the old school because we were parented that way, say, oh, teenagers today, you know they have it easy. Well, covid happened to all of us, but we survived. And what's going on with them?

Speaker 2: 13:45

Yeah, it's interesting. This is a very big oversimplification, but what we saw was there were two kinds of kids. Kids that had a really hard time with COVID and especially that first year where we were all staying at home. A lot school was online, because they really need the structure, they really need the socialization They really needed to be outside of their house and have the influence of other people. And then we saw kids who actually flourished during COVID because they have a tendency to maybe be a little bit more introverted, and then a lot of the stressors that came with school were gone. They didn't have to navigate the hallways, they didn't have to navigate all the social stuff that they especially if they have a really healthy home environment right, they're at home cuddling with people who love them.

Speaker 2: 14:42

It was interesting to watch how difficult COVID was for certain kinds of people and actually how some people kind of felt a little bit better during COVID because life slowed down and they were able to kind of take care of themselves and hunker in in a different way. And again, that speaks a lot to privilege. I think it's like the people who are able to do better. It's not just a personality type introvert versus extrovert It's also do we have the means in the time or are we working jobs?

Speaker 2: 15:15

If you're forced to work a job where you're constantly being exposed to the virus and you're worried about bringing it home, there's a heightened level of anxiety there, and so I think, really helping parents look at you know who is your child, what do we know about them, what was really wonderful about that phase of time, you know, and that like, in some ways, some kids were already just so connected electronically that they didn't feel like they missed out on anything because they didn't really hang out in person a lot with their friends.

Speaker 2: 15:53

They were online with their friends anyway. I had a teenager who was talking to me the other day and she was like, oh yes, we were all hanging out and I'm like, oh, whose house were you out? And she's like, oh no, we're all at our own houses, we're like texting each other, you know, or we're all like whatever. And I was like, oh, because in my mind still, my default hanging out is we're in person together, and for a lot of these kids that's just not their reality, and so really helping parents understand, you know, what was that like for your child.

Speaker 2: 16:26

And what did they miss out on? And really trying to frame it in a way that's not just about well, who am I And how did I deal with that, but who are they. And I think that's the hardest thing sometimes as a parent is to really recognize that your kid is a separate person from you and that they don't think and feel and need exactly what you did.

Speaker 2: 16:48

Our son, who's in college now, my husband and I met in high school So we like know each other as teenagers And we were both really extroverted, both really involved. We had big groups of friends And our son is introverted And he is more of a like you know, he's got a good group of friends, but it's fairly small And he doesn't need to be with them nearly as much as we wanted to be with our friends. Part of that's generational, part of that's personality, and it was so like hard to sometimes be like Oh, we think he should be doing X, you know, we think he should be doing Y And actually to stop and go, hold on, he's not us. Who is he? What does he need? Is he happy, like, what are the things that he needs in order to be his best self? Not, you know what did we find really helpful, and so let's make him do what we did. You know, and that's hard for parents is to really recognize that their kids are very different, separate people than from them.

Speaker 1: 17:48

Oh, my goodness, Yes, i'm struggling with that too with my older one who is, you know, 17 and looking at college applications And I'm like, just go to college from home, you know I'll still take care of you, and she's like No, i need to leave, which of course you know we understand as parents. But to your point, yes, you know, we always kind of think about our kids as an extension of us And to it's in my brain, it's almost like losing my limbs or something So kind of coming back to something you said in terms of the interesting time right now 14 ages to explore their sexual orientation, sexuality, identity.

Speaker 1: 18:54

How do you see that come up in your conversations with them, because sometimes they are so private and then sometimes they're so open. Sometimes it's cultural, sometimes it's you know, sort of social. How do you have that conversation with them And what's coming up for them there?

Speaker 2: 19:15

My experience as a therapist has been that what we see here and there's nine of us on my team here at SRNA And so we kind of get, and I supervise all the clinicians, so I sort of get a really large sample size like a large swath of clients to kind of glean from not just my own caseload but everyone's, and what we tend to see is that the kids are very pretty comfortable and nonchalant about it. It doesn't feel like again, say like 15, 20 years ago, where we might be like tap dancing a little bit and asking some questions to probe and let them know it's safe to talk about. They're just coming in and they're just openly sharing and a lot of them it's not like oh, this is why I'm here, i'm really struggling with this. They're not really struggling with it. It's really more they're struggling with it in terms of their relationships with their parents And they are in their own kind of peer group. That what we see, at least here, you know, in this sort of greater Philly spring suburbs is that most of the kids are really comfortable with it. Most of the kids are really accepting of it. There isn't a lot of problems at school around it And so it really is more about.

Speaker 2: 20:37

You know, how do I reconcile this with my family system, and our work kind of gets to really be in OK, you know, have you talked with your parents about this? Is this something that you're ready for them to know? Or, oftentimes, it is something that they've kind of floated out or they've just. This is what I think is so great, like it used to be, oh, this is a big conversation, and now these kids are just like yep, like over dinner or in the car, just sort of floating this stuff out, and it's the parents who are like, oh no, no, respond to this What? And so it really does become this amazing role that we get to have, where we say can we help, can we facilitate a conversation And can we work individually with the teenager to help them sort of formulate? How do you want to say this? What are the important pieces that you need your parents to know? What's it going to be like if one of them sort of does something that feels sort of rejecting? How are you going to manage that?

Speaker 2: 21:39

And then, being able to work individually with the parents, too, to prepare them and to go OK, here's what it looks like to be a safe parent. What are you coming up for you? What are your fears? What are your maybe religious views, or you are, you know, just sort of upbringing. What's your discomfort? What's your even just like lack of vocabulary? Sometimes parents are like, oh, i have no issue with it, i just don't know how to talk about this and really helping them to prepare themselves to be a really safe parent. How do you want to communicate your values to your child in a way that feels like it's respectful and it isn't going to damage the relationship? It's like it's really kind of amazing work to get to do And so, yeah, i find that we don't have a lot of kids that are really shy around it or that we really need to kind of pull it out of them. It's really more about OK, how do we thoughtfully help your family have some conversation that feels really safe and really productive?

Speaker 1: 22:40

Wow, that's I mean. that's such a good space to be in, right.

Speaker 1: 22:46

Like you said a few years ago, even 10 years ago, it was such a difficult conversation to have that it was like a big conversation to have. And I see that in my practice as well. That teens are, and even younger teens are, very open to sort of identity markers, even like pronouns and non-binary and sexuality and the terminology around that, and I learned so much from them because it's also like an evolving vocabulary. Yes, right, sometimes I do feel like the emojis don't work with me, i don't get that at all, but the vocabulary I mean. They are pretty open with friends. Like you said, i see that in my practice as well. It's really kind of not even a struggle, but like how do I talk to my parents about this and how do parents talk to them Like where is that conversation happening and how is it happening? But then I also have a lot of teens who are struggling with sort of what you earlier mentioned, with sort of self-harm, right, and suicidal ideation.

Speaker 1: 24:08

So, as a parent, what am I looking for in terms of, perhaps, science behaviors concerns? if you will, if you could talk to that a little bit.

Speaker 2: 24:27

Sure, yeah, i think the very first thing I'll say is I'll go back to that idea that your child is separate from you And their body is theirs. And so sometimes, as parents, you know, like if we see something, we're like, oh my gosh, you can't do that to yourself. You know, like I made you this, you know this is my body that you're hurting. Stop right And being able to actually have enough space and enough security to say, ok, that's their body, that's what they're doing to themselves. I of course do not want them hurting themselves in any way, shape or form. But if I can actually just start from that place of respect, it's going to go a lot further, because some of this I mean really sometimes boils down to power and control. Right, it boils down to I'm going to, you know, take care of myself the way I want to take care of myself, and you can't tell me. And so if a parent is too invested in certain things happening, it kind of backfires a little bit. And so I think some of the signs you know that you're looking for are, i mean, of course, the most obvious ones are like do you see wounds on your child? You know, like, are there bruises or are there cuts, that sort of looking at their complexion, you know, and like that saloneness that sometimes comes from not taking good care of yourself, but the you know the signs of depression, that isolating, shutting down. A kid who used to be really boisterous and talkative is now very quiet. What we find here is that lots of kids and teens actually do a really nice job of expressing like I don't wanna be here, I wish I was dead, which is terrifying to parents. But I'm always thrilled that a kid is saying that out loud because it lets us know like, okay, we need to pay attention and we need to take good care of you.

Speaker 2: 26:31

I don't recommend like going through kids' journals, you know, and stuff like that, but I do really encourage parents at the very beginning of their kid getting a device you know if it's a watcher or something when they're younger, and then a phone later saying, hey, until you're a certain age I am going to be, you know, looking through your phone, i'm gonna be checking on some things because I just wanna make sure you're safe. It's in the same way that like if you were driving a car, you know, or doing something else that's sort of risky, i would be there and I'd be watching and I'd be making sure you know what you're doing, and so these are sort of the training wheels And there are apps that parents can get. I'm not up on the current ones right now. I know a few years ago, you know, bark was a really good one that you can have on your kid's phone and you can set certain parameters, excuse me, and like if certain words you know come up, it will alert the parent. And when my kid was young, we actually had stuff like that on his phone and it really helped because, even if it wasn't him feeling suicidal, it was his friends who were texting him at 2 am And then he was their little peer counselor, you know, trying to help them not feel so alone in the world, which is beautiful and wonderful, but also, oh my gosh, what an enormous responsibility for a 15 year old to feel like your friend's life is in your hands at 2 am on the other side of the phone, and so, really, than being able to have the opportunity to talk and say, hey, it feels like you're such a good friend and I'm so proud of you, but also I'm really worried about you. Know how much stress this is and how can we support you and how can we help your friend? you know, and so I really do.

Speaker 2: 28:22

It's like I know a teenager who went through a thing where it's like basically every day, five times a day, they would say I wish I were dead. I wish I were dead. And so at some point the parents were just like all right enough, like I don't wanna listen to that anymore, and it's easy to get a little numb to it or a little annoyed by it even, and going can you have a talk with your teenager to say, does that always mean that you're actively suicidal? You know, do you really wanna be dead Or are you just saying school stinks, life is hard. I wish I weren't, you know, in high school anymore. Like I wish this phase of my life was past. You know it's like can we really get clear on what you're saying? And then so I know how I kinda need to respond.

Speaker 2: 29:06

And then every so often, whether it's once a week or once a month, checking in and going, you know you keep saying that I wanna make sure it still means what I think it means, because I care about you and I want you here, and so like, are you feeling suicidal? Is there any part of you that doesn't feel safe And being able to recheck in every so often and take it seriously? because I think sometimes it's like we either overreact to it or we underreact to it. And so really having that clear conversation, kind of continually with the teenager on what is this, how is it functioning, you know what's going on, and then we hear, with self-harm and stuff, we'll try to offer a lot of alternatives that are way safer, that sort of serves the same function, like if you're cutting, trying to really understand what's that about and what do you get from it.

Speaker 2: 29:59

What's going on there? Often, when people are cutting, they're not suicidal, they're trying to feel something, or they're trying to remind themselves that they're alive because they can see blood come up and that is reassuring because they feel so numb. Or sometimes it's punishing, like I don't deserve to feel good and so I'm punishing myself. But it's looking at the function of the behavior, then being able to offer alternatives, way safer options, to kind of get that same sensation, while we then work on that underlying feeling of like numbness or lack of self-regard or whatever that is, so that we can then heal that and they'll no longer feel the need to do this thing anymore.

Speaker 1: 30:40

Yeah, that's so powerful right And so profound in the sense of what's going on with teenagers when they have self-harm tendencies or suicide ideation on kind of a regular basis. One of the things that you mentioned was as parents we kind of have extreme reactions right, and especially with phone usage and social media. it's either I'm going to take your phone away forever because you're on your phone or then, all right, keep your phone, i don't want to deal with it, you know whatever. So what are some?

Speaker 1: 31:23

of the things like in terms of boundaries around technology, around screens, especially because I struggle with this a lot myself, because they are on their computers for their homework and now, with this, after COVID, all of their assignments are due at 11.59 at night. 11.59 at night, what's up with that? right, like, why can't it be seven in the evening? And so my own kids are staying up late And when they're on the screens on their computer trying to finish up their homework and of course they will submit it at 11.59 at night, right, i can't say no, as a parent, i can't say well, don't have your phone next to you, because they're also FaceTiming their friends who are finishing up their homework. So it's a hard question What, what is, what do we do?

Speaker 2: 32:26

I have found again. It's like 10 years ago. I would have a very different answer. You know where it's like. You know you do the whole. Okay, put your phone away for two hours. When you come home, then we do this. You know it's like, and now I mean, it's just, it's everything. And so we kind of need our phones and our laptops to function. This is how we all sort of get connected and we do our work and we do our stuff.

Speaker 2: 32:51

So now I say, like, look for opportunities to be away from your phones. And so, as opposed to going give me your phone, i'm putting you in a drawer where you go, okay. You know like, get your work done, but then let's go for a walk. Okay, get your stuff done, but then, like, let's go jump out on the trampoline for a while. That looking for those ways in which everybody puts their phone down and has some kind of connection, and it doesn't have to be hours on end, it can be 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there, but that you're all participating in it, or at least like you and your kid are participating. It doesn't have everybody in the family all at once, but it's when we're over here on our phones going. Get off your phone right And they're like wait, do you want to use on?

Speaker 1: 33:35

your phone.

Speaker 2: 33:35

That's what I'm doing, okay, and so really holding that same kind of boundary for yourself and basically saying in this family, this is what we do. And we were pretty strict just because you know I'm sure you have seen the same thing where it's like as a therapist, you end up seeing some of the rougher scenarios and some of the more detrimental consequences to screen stuff so that you become a little hyper aware of all of the possibilities. And so we said if you're on your phone or your laptop, you know you basically have to be in a public area of the house. There's never any reason to take a phone into a bathroom And that's for all of us. Like I just don't, i just don't get it. Like I got to be like read on the toilet or whatever you know, but it's like that's unnecessary.

Speaker 2: 34:27

And we were so strict that it was, like you know, even in our kids room, no laptop, no phone, and so like until probably like senior year of high school. And then it was just like, okay, go ahead. But that like if you're working on a paper or doing something, and like again, like we have the advantage we have one child, we don't have three other kids who are screaming and causing a debacle. You know it's like that there's a quiet space in a public area where you can work on that. The basement, you know, was for video games, but like we could come down and we kind of did the thing where it's like sure you can be down there doing whatever, but at any moment we might float down there and to know that, like you know, there's some oversight, and so creating those boundaries around where you have technology and where you have access to your stuff really does decrease the likelihood of them having a lot of time to be exploring some really unsavory things online And then not having phones in your room overnight.

Speaker 2: 35:31

I mean we really did like again, probably until his senior year, sort of said like our phones all stay downstairs, we charge them overnight down on the main living area while we all sleep upstairs. That's good for us. We shouldn't be looking at our phone right before we go to sleep and we shouldn't be looking at our phone right when we wake up And the whole like, oh, we use it for an alarm. It's like buy an alarm clock, like buy $10 battery operated alarm clock. I know it's lame, but it's so much better for your health And so those kinds of boundaries where it's basically saying we're gonna do the things in our family that are good for all of us and not just do this punitive like you're a kid and we can't trust you So like we're gonna make all these demands on your screen time No, we're all gonna be held to the same standard for screen time.

Speaker 1: 36:21

No, i think that those are such helpful sort of tips because a lot of times we struggle with how do I create those boundaries? right, because, like I said, we need our phones and our computers to work, to stay connected with friends, things like that. I love the idea that you take time off in small doses, even away from your phone, and I think that's such a refreshing idea, versus put your phone away for an hour You don't need blue light or put away your computer you know you don't need that. So I think that that's a very, very refreshing idea for me And I will use it.

Speaker 2: 37:12

Good, it's really just reasonable. You know, i think we've I kind of have this I wanna win as many battles as I can while recognizing that I'm gonna lose the war, like we. this is not how I want to function. This is like if this, i think all of us in our little heart of hearts are like if only I could move to a farm in the middle of nowhere and grow my own food and just like walk through the hills every day. Of course, isn't that what we all want? But we live in a world where we are saturated with media And I love TV, i love to binge watch a show. You know, i read, i read on a Kindle. So like, even the books I'm reading are a screen and it's a paper, white, but it still is a screen. And so to just know that this, i mean we've lost the war, this is it.

Speaker 1: 38:05

Like we are on our laptops constantly, like we're constantly dealing with screens, but that I want to win as many battles as I can, and so those small little ways of being able to pull ourselves out of this kind of deep, deep hole of screen life is what I think is reasonable at this point And I absolutely agree with that because we somehow I feel like we are in this time frame where it's either, like you said, extreme reactions right, go live on a farm with no technology and then you're living without like anything that remotely is quote unquote modern, or then we are living in a world where we are constantly on our phones, checking our emails and being on top of things. So we need to find that middle ground to exist And I think, as parents, as therapists, we are trying to figure that out as we go along so that our kids benefit from that. Hopefully they're watching us do some things that actually inspire them.

Speaker 2: 39:19

Okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 39:20

Yes, Yeah. so do you have any kind of resources for parents in terms of, just like you know being, how do I talk to my child about technology or how do I start a conversation with my teenager? like it's difficult, but they're not listening most of the time.

Speaker 2: 39:46

Yes, it's so funny. I used to have this rule that when my kid was in the car with me, it was like a no phone zone and that like that 10 minute or 15 minute car ride was for us to like talk and connect. But he's not a big talker, and so then it was just like we just sit there. It was really awkward. And then he pulls phone out and then I have to be like hey, get off your phone. It was just silly.

Speaker 2: 40:10

What I found for us and I think this is true of most humans is that, like, walking side by side is the best time to have these conversations. And so if you create a practice where almost every day you're walking and again advantage one kid, easy enough, right, like, take this kid for a walk every day And you can have all of your kids and just sort of know that, like, today is oldest, you know, like tomorrow's walk I'm going to focus on the middle kid, tomorrow's walk I'm going to focus on the youngest. But that, like, if you get into this habit of taking like a 10 minute walk, well then you've got the space to bring up anything. And what I really encourage is don't make it intense every single time. You know, don't All right, today's talk we're talking about your sexuality. You know it's like just be with him and to be like so you know how's life.

Speaker 2: 41:09

Anything on your heart this week And having that space for because six out of seven times you're just walking Nothing is really important going to be said, but that's such important time to be together for your kid, to learn that you're a safe parent who doesn't constantly have to teach them something or constantly grill them for information, that you just want to be with them. And then you have these little shared experiences where, like, a dog runs into the street and, like you know, gets muddle over your pants and yeah, it's just funny. And then you can say like, oh, like, smell the grass right. Like there's almost this meditative, like mindfulness, if you can just be in the moment with your teenager and then one out.

Speaker 2: 41:53

Of seven times you're going to go. So you know, like, how you been, how's your week going, and they're going to open up to you about something, and then you have 10 minutes right to really kind of go. You know how do I want to respond to this and how do I want it, and I really encourage parents to listen first and don't jump into Oh my gosh, my job is to teach my kid how to be a safe human and like, okay, here's all the advice I'm going to give them, that listening, asking a couple of questions that show that you're listening and that you want to maybe learn something a little deeper. So curious questions, not judgemental questions. Well, what were you thinking? that curious question when, like, oh, wow, what was that like for you? or like, oh, had that ever happened like that before?

Speaker 2: 42:47

And then the very next thing after they've sort of shared is to go Gosh, you have thoughts on how you want to handle this, that you're just there to facilitate their own exploration of what they want to do about this, and then, if they're like I have no idea, you know, you go Oh, do you want some thoughts? like, i have some thoughts on it. Do you want, like, any suggestions for me, and sometimes they're like, oh my gosh, yes, please. And sometimes they're like you know, you know, and it's really not be personally offended, not take it to just go. I am so lucky that my kid trust me enough to share this with me, and so, if they say no, what I? absolutely the most important thing that I can be right now is safe, and safe means respecting what they just said And not.

Speaker 2: 43:37

Well, i know you said no, but I'm going to tell you how to do it anyway, because it's wasted right and you're just harming the relationship where, if you show them that you're safe and you model that you're pretty healthy, human, eventually they are going to want some advice from you, eventually they are going to want to hear some things from you.

Speaker 2: 43:55

And so that to me, like the best resource that I could give is developing some sort of habit in your family where you create that kind of time where you can connect, and for some people it really is the car, like I have. Quite a few clients say, oh my gosh, the time that I'm driving them to their course back writing lessons is the best ever, and so that means, as a parent, you don't schedule phone calls for that time. You don't listen to podcasts during that time, you are available during that time, and so that to me feels like because when we kind of do the, we don't really pay attention to you and we don't really and we just teach you and we grill you and then all of a sudden I want to have a real conversation.

Speaker 2: 44:40

Our kids are primed to that like. So we need to just develop that habitually and create space for it habitually so that when these things come up it naturally has a place in your family life.

Speaker 1: 44:55

Yeah, I love that. That. That space that you create is also, in many ways, a predictable space for them. They might not say anything for a week when you're on a walk with them, but they know that if they do want to talk about something, that they have that space, that one on one time with you. Wow, what an amazing you know like idea. Simple but works Right. My go to is always sort of at times, figuring out where my kids are.

Speaker 2: 45:36

You know in terms of their day.

Speaker 1: 45:39

One is a morning person, one is a night person, and so I'm up both times. So I mean, really, one of them will come just as we are falling asleep how mom, i have this and the other one will go early morning mom, can you drive me to school? And so there's something I know is coming up. So I mean, you know, like really kind of tapping into what your family dynamic is and where your kids are Wow, what a conversation Shall be.

Speaker 1: 46:15

I mean, I really, i mean truly, have learned so much from you today, just like in these 45 minutes. It's like wow, so much wisdom. And I hope, you know, parents, you know, are able to hear this podcast because it's such such an important conversation to to talk about, to start this conversation with your kids. So, thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 46:43

It's been wonderful for me to be here too. It's. it's always such a pleasure to talk with somebody else who works with teenagers and who's a mom to teenagers, because it is, it's it feels like to me. it's such a fun age of people to work with, but it also it does it feels really, really tricky, and so being able to kind of share our stories and learn from each other is a really wonderful way to continue to really show up for teenagers in the best way that we can.

Speaker 1: 47:12

Thank you so much.