Exploring Gender and Sexual Identity in Teens: A Guide for Parents and Allies

In this two-part series, I talk to Amber Lynne Connell, an expert in adolescent psychology about gender and sexual identity. Here, in part one we unravel the intricacies of gender and sexual identity among teenagers. Who knew that our gender identity begins forming as early as five years old? Or that biological sex extends far beyond the traditional XX and XY to a spectrum of 27 different possible variants? This episode is ripe with revelations about how societal norms begin to influence our identities even before we're born.

Ever wondered about the difference between biological sex and gender identity? Brace yourself as we debunk misconceptions and illuminate the truth in a comprehensive discussion differentiating the two. We'll explore how Gen Z and younger generations are shattering conventions, fostering open dialogues about gender and sexual identity. Let's navigate through terms like non-binary, gender fluid, and agender, and understand how we can bolster support for those on their self-discovery journey.

As we move towards the end, we discuss the monumental importance of affirming our children’s pronouns and names, potentially providing a lifeline for queer and trans teens. We'll share tips on navigating these changes as a parent. Finally, we spotlight resources available for parents, like the PFLAG organization, spotlighting the pivotal role a supportive community can play. Tune in and join our endeavor to create a more inclusive, understanding world for the sake of our future generations.

Bio:
Amber Lynn Connell is a licensed professional counselor with over 15 years experience working in various mental health settings. She is a graduate of Immaculata University with her Bachelor’s in Psychology and West Chester University with her Master’s in Clinical Psychology and Post-Master’s Clinical Licensure Certificate. Amber launched her private practice, ALC Counseling and Therapy in 2022 where she provides individual, group, and family therapy as well as licensure supervision.

In her practice, Amber specializes in working with members of the LGBTQ community, folks with chronic health conditions, and neurodivergent clients of all ages and their families. Amber is also the Clinical Supervisor of the Welcome Project PA Therapy Program where she provides clinical supervision for Master’s level student therapists in training, pre-licensed clinicians, and overall program development, education, and advocacy for LGBT clients and therapists.

Amber is the current secretary of the Pennsylvania Society for Sexual, Affectional, Intersex, and Gender Expansive Identities in the counseling community. She provides trainings to other therapists at local and state conferences as well as professional development trainings to those in other related fields. Amber is also a member of the Conshohocken-Plymouth-Whitemarsh Rotary Club, through which she has been able to spread awareness and advocacy for mental health needs across the greater Philadelphia Area. When she’s not working, Amber enjoys reading, weightlifting, and spending time with her family, friends, and her dog Scruffs.

Resources:
https://welcomeprojectpa.org/saga/therapy/

https://saigecounseling.org/

http://pacounseling.org/aws/PACA/pt/sp/advocacy

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Hi, amber, welcome to the podcast and thank you so much for your willingness to talk to me. This is such an interesting and sensitive topic that we are going to talk about today and I'm really excited for parents, for our listeners, to kind of get an understanding of where sort of gender and sexual identity is for teenagers, how it impacts their life and how, as parents, we can be supportive to our teenagers. So I'm really really excited. Thank you again for coming on the show.

Speaker 2: 0:41

Thanks for having me. I'm really excited too. This is definitely an important topic right now.

Speaker 1: 0:46

Yeah, yeah. There's so much conversation happening and so much is going on, even politically. So if you could kind of start by telling our listeners how you came into this work and into this space of gender and sexual identity and working with teens mostly, Sure, yeah, I sort of fell into it by accident.

Speaker 2: 1:13

The first practice I ever worked for was a sex therapy practice. That was the specialty, so we worked with folks who had maybe difficulty conceiving or sexual dysfunction or trauma and, as it just so happened, a whole bunch of my initial clients when I was in my internship and pre-licensed happened to be queer and trans and I developed my expertise.

Speaker 2: 1:43

I would say that way, kind of in the field, on the job. And then a few years later, when I was working somewhere else, I attended the Pennsylvania Counseling Association conference and some folks who are now some of my close friends and colleagues invited me to a subdivision meeting, for at the time it was called Paljabitik, now it's called PS Sage, the Pennsylvania Society for Sexual Affection, intersex and Gender Expansive Identities in Counseling. I made friends there. We had a great time together at the conference. I learned a lot and I've really delved into this work since then. That was like 2016, I think.

Speaker 1: 2:30

Oh, wow. Yeah, thank you for talking in depth about your background. It's interesting how we all fall into our areas by accident and then it takes on a whole new passion. That's the case. That has been with me as well. I started working with women in particular and then just moved into working with families and teenagers.

Speaker 2: 2:55

Yeah, it's sort of a natural progression for a lot of us.

Speaker 1: 3:00

Right, yeah, so can we start with just a broad introduction to what identity means to teenagers, where they are developmentally and, in a sense, how is that identity even formed at that age?

Speaker 2: 3:21

Yeah, absolutely so. Our identities are being formed our entire lives, but especially in that adolescent and teenage years. So much of somebody's identity is really forming, and it's really this age of exploration for so many folks you might have.

Speaker 2: 3:40

a kid who was never really athletic before says, hey, parents, I want to try out for the soccer team. Or a kid who never expressed any interest in theater wants to join the spring production. So all of their identity is really under exploration and forming, and gender and sexuality are no different. We know that by ages two and three most kids are aware of body differences between boys and girls and kids and adults and they talk about it pretty frequently.

Speaker 2: 4:14

Or if they play house or dolls, we see them play with it by five. We know that gender identity is pretty salient meaning. We have studies that have shown that brain scans of kids as young as five who identify as trans so that would be that their gender identity is different than the sex they were assigned at birth their brain scans actually more closely match the adults of their self-identified gender than their sex assigned at birth as early as five, and so in the teenage years it's really just that exploration of expression how do I want to dress, how do I talk differently to my peers than my family, that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2: 5:08

It's very infrequently something that is sexual in nature. We know that gender and sexual identity are two different things.

Speaker 1: 5:18

Thank you for saying that.

Speaker 2: 5:22

It's something that a lot of people aren't aware of the nuance between but, yes, they are two different things. And for queer and trans teenagers, just like their cis and straight counterparts, they're exploring, they're talking ooh, do I like this person, do I like when I get my nails done? Do I like when I wear baggy clothes? Better than fitted clothes. It's really just the sense of exploration of all their pieces of identity and that's where we do see gender show up in how they express themselves pretty often.

Speaker 1: 5:57

Can I just say I have so many questions right now.

Speaker 2: 6:01

I'm sure this topic often brings up more questions than it does answers.

Speaker 1: 6:04

I know, I know, and that's why I was so excited to have this conversation. So let me unpack a little bit in terms of what you just mentioned. So in some ways then, are you saying that with the brain scans and things like that, scientifically or biologically it's kind of determined who you know, like what their gender or what our gender is, and then by teenage years they are kind of socially exploring and culturally understanding what that means?

Speaker 2: 6:51

Sort of, for the most part, that captures it. I actually learned from my friend who's a genetic counselor that biological sex there's actually something like 27 different variants.

Speaker 2: 7:05

Yeah, it's not just XX and XY like we thought, which is mind blowing, right. And so you know, from a biological, genetic standpoint, yeah, there's a lot that is determined, but, like everything in our world, it's nature and nurture. You know, socialization, gender is typically a social construct, it is all socialization, and that socialization actually starts before babies are even born. If you look at the cards for a baby shower, if someone's having a girl versus a boy, you know you'll see in the girl cards they're mostly pink, they're cute, cuddly, they say words like you know, precious little blessing and things like that. Whereas if you know someone's having a boy, the cards for a baby shower, again before the baby's even born, they tend to say things like rough and tumble, little man, they're blue, maybe they have trucks on them or things like that.

Speaker 2: 8:12

So we're stereotyping and socializing kids before they're even born. So kids know at this developmental stage, like I said, the preschool ages they know the differences between boys and girls and they know, you know, maybe subtly, pinks for girls, blues for boys, but as they explore and the more exposure that they're given to all sorts of activities, you know if boys are given access to dolls or if girls are given, you know, dress up that includes a firefighter or something that might be a more stereotypically male profession. That just helps their identity and, to be personally honest, that is what we call gender affirming care.

Speaker 2: 9:02

It's literally just giving kids and teenagers the options to explore to I don't know. Cut their hair, play around with makeup, play around with their clothes and see how they want to interact with the world.

Speaker 1: 9:15

Yeah, and I mean that sort of you know sense, then is what gender expression is right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:25

And it can change throughout our lives. I'll use myself as an example. You know nobody can see me, but I'm currently wearing lots of pink today because pink is my favorite color and I have pink hair. But also I am a huge sports fan. I yell at the TV when the Eagles are playing and I also enjoy weightlifting. Not stereotypically girly or female things, they're both parts of my identity. My gender is solid. I was born a woman, I identify as a woman and you know I'm a cis person. But for some folks, if they didn't have access to explore these variances, they might not have come to that conclusion younger like I did. So it's always important, you know, the more exposure to different types of activities and interests that kids can have, the more well rounded and secure their identity is going to be in all areas.

Speaker 1: 10:22

Right, Right. And as you were talking about different sort of chromosomals sex, I was reminded of this article by Anne Faust of Sterling, If you have heard of her. She was one of kind of the first feminists to talk about the five sexes and she was kind of really challenged for that. But now we are talking about 27 different.

Speaker 2: 10:51

Yeah, don't quote me on the number.

Speaker 1: 10:54

Somewhere in the ballpark.

Speaker 2: 10:55

So many variances that we didn't even know about before.

Speaker 1: 10:59

Yeah, that's amazing. So maybe one of the things you could elaborate on is sort of what is biological sex and how is it different from our gender?

Speaker 2: 11:12

Yeah. So for most of us, either with an ultrasound before we're born or when we're born, the doctors take a look at us, specifically our private parts, and they say you're a girl or you're a boy, based on what externally it looks like For some folks. With the advent of genetic testing for lots of things medically, a lot of folks undergo that for various reasons. We've actually found that there's an uptick of intersex folks because we've learned that what someone looks like on the outside might not match chromosomally what they are. So the truest way to tell what my quote unquote biological sex is is if I had genetic testing done. But for most of us we're born, they take a look and it matches.

Speaker 2: 12:06

That would be someone whose gender identity would be cisgender. When how I feel as a person matches the body that I have, the physical parts I have, if someone's feelings about themselves as a person whether they say I feel like a boy or I feel like a girl, or I don't feel like either, or I feel like both sometimes If that doesn't match the physical body that they were born into, that's when someone would identify under the trans umbrella. And so our biological sex tends to be that chromosomal DNA genetics as well as the physical parts our body has and our gender identity is how do I feel, how do I see myself in the world and how do I relate to others and to the world through what roles I play, what activities and interests I have, and how I express myself, whether that be through clothing, hairstyles, makeup, etc.

Speaker 1: 13:09

Thank you for explaining that in such sort of detail but also so clearly. There's a lot of times, A lot of times even on forums that we are filling out, it's a sex somewhere, it says gender somewhere, and people usually are confused about what that means and a lot of times we just put those two together and say that's my gender, that's my sex, and so then it's so confusing when it comes to self identifying, because a lot of kids and I love the fact that they're kind of open, Gen Z is open about their gender and sexual identity and I love that about them right.

Speaker 2: 13:53

And I think, the alphas, I think that's the one after them they're going to be even better, Like they have all this language already. That's the biggest thing. Some of this is just you know, trans people have existed since prehistoric times, right as long as there's been people, there have been queer and trans folks.

Speaker 2: 14:12

We have just, you know, updated and expanded our language so much that now folks have more meaningful terms to talk about things and you know, folks are introduced to and they explore these identities a lot younger now. So, yeah, especially Gen Z and the alphas coming after them.

Speaker 1: 14:32

You know I'm excited for it, me too. My kids educate me so much on identity sort of formation, identity struggles, identity issues right, because they are kind of going through that themselves or they're seeing their friends go through the similar things and the conversation is so much more accepted with teens right now. With my generation, you know it was sort of well, let's not talk about it. And if you're talking about it, something is going on with you and that's not cool you know, Yep, Yep, yeah, ours was the same way.

Speaker 2: 15:14

It was. You just didn't talk about certain things and I think that left a lot of people feeling really lonely and isolated, and that might be, you know why. Now we're even seeing a lot of folks in their adult years really exploring gender and identity, and I think I think that's great that folks are able to do that now. But we know that so many young kids and teens you know that are struggling with this. You know the more affirming and open and supportive their environment is, it can literally be life saving. Yeah, For these kids?

Speaker 1: 15:50

Yeah, absolutely. Could we talk a little bit about the terms? Sure, you know you mentioned cisgender and I'm kind of thinking about non binary, because that is one term that I hear over and over again with especially my teen clients. But then families, parents, are like wait, what does that even sort of mean? How can we support our children? You know our teens in that and teens kind of are in that exploration stage as well. So if you could talk a little bit about non-binary and tell our listeners what that is and how can we support.

Speaker 2: 16:39

Yeah, so gosh, I could talk about terms for five hours.

Speaker 1: 16:43

There's so many of them.

Speaker 2: 16:45

The most important is really understanding the difference between cisgender and transgender. So cis, the prefix CIS, I think it means like the same or it matches.

Speaker 2: 16:59

So, like I said before, that's where how I view myself internally matches the body that I have for the most part, and typically my outward expression will also match, meaning women typically wear bright colors and we might have longer hair or wear makeup. Now we know that even within the population of folks who are cis that there is a lot of variance. Right, there is no one way to be a woman or to be a man. And when we speak in terms of trans folks, that word trans, the prefix, means different and it's really an umbrella term. So folks who are non-binary or maybe who identify as gender fluid or agender would fall under that umbrella.

Speaker 2: 17:52

And trans basically means how I feel about myself internally doesn't necessarily match the body parts that I have, or my biological sex, so to speak. So it's like we said, they're two different things and for a majority of folks they line up pretty well. For other folks they don't line up and that's where we now have lots more terms, like I said non-binary, gender fluid, agender. There's a million more. Yeah, I get it and they're all valid identities.

Speaker 2: 18:26

Non-binary typically refers to a person who either doesn't feel like a boy or a girl, so they might say I don't feel like either. Or it could refer to a person who says well, sometimes I feel like both.

Speaker 2: 18:41

I might feel really masculine today, I might feel really feminine tomorrow, and that could also be someone who uses the term gender fluid, meaning that their identity and expression is literally think like water it's malleable, it changes, it flows.

Speaker 2: 19:01

A really good example of someone who is non-binary and typically presents in a very fluid manner would be if anybody's watched Queer Eye, jonathan Van Ness. So they identify as non-binary. They use they and them pronouns. I believe actually they use all pronouns that's the latest I had heard but predominantly they and them. They've got really long, really beautiful hair, might add that they have hair goals, but they often present with a beard and sometimes they'll wear just pants and a shirt and sometimes they'll also be seen in like an evening gown, so they really like to play around with their gender. So some folks who are non-binary might present very agender, very neutrally. Some might still present more like the sex they were assigned at birth, but they don't identify with that. And some may present differently than even the pronouns that they use or their identity, because one more thing to recognize that's different is that gender identity and gender expression can also be two different things.

Speaker 2: 20:09

So, how we feel internally and what we show, the world might line up, but it also might not every day.

Speaker 1: 20:18

Can you elaborate a little bit more on sort of the alignment, if you will, of gender identity or non-alignment of gender identity and expression?

Speaker 2: 20:30

Yeah. So again, if we think in terms of very classic, very stereotyped male and female behaviors right, very classically we would say women wear skirts and dresses and makeup. There's lots of guys who wear makeup now. In fact, there's whole makeup lines designed for guys. That doesn't necessarily mean that person is non-binary or gender fluid. It just might mean that that guy's really into makeup. However, it could also mean that that person doesn't feel like either male or female, but today they want to wear makeup. So gender expression is what we show the outside world and that's really where, as teenagers, we see the biggest amount of exploration.

Speaker 2: 21:24

They'll constantly be changing their hair, playing around with makeup, playing around with the clothes that they wear, songs that they listen to, all sorts of stuff like that, and it can be very confusing for the adults in their life because they might be trying on lots of different hats and lots of different options before they really settle on the one that fits for them.

Speaker 1: 21:48

And I'm also wondering if there needs to be a settlement on one right, like I mean. What I'm also hearing you say is that gender is on a spectrum and we can be what we would like to be, and it could perhaps be an everyday thing.

Speaker 2: 22:10

Yes, right, yeah. So some folks do settle and they feel very like I said, that word alignment just really fits. They feel like it clicks. This is how I feel inside, this is who I am and this is how I want the world to see me. And for some other folks, they're playing around with it every single day and that's pretty cool. That could look like getting your nails done, you know, wearing your sports attire to school if you have a game later that day. It can look like so many different things. So I think it's really cool that nobody, but especially teenagers, has to pick.

Speaker 2: 22:51

We have the language and we have the words, so folks can accurately talk about themselves and understand themselves. But that understanding and that conversation is gonna change over time, just like it does for us. Again, I'm a cis woman and my identity has changed over the course of my life. I begrudgingly watched the Eagles with my dad when I was a little kid, and now my husband and myself and my dad and my brother-in-law, we have season tickets and I watch every game. So my experience with that has changed over the course of my life.

Speaker 1: 23:28

Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:29

And thank you for sharing that. And I'm also thinking as parents, especially with our teenagers. We want them to quote unquote settle on something and I think, as sort of quote unquote again, woke parents right, like a lot of us think, hey, we support our kids, we want to be available for our kids, we want to be able to be their friend on some level. They should come to us when they are struggling with things. But I also see a lot of well-meaning parents kind of wanting their teen, their child, to kind of get it right, and what you're saying is, hey, you know what teenage years are, years where they're exploring, where they are kind of figuring it out, and we need for them to be, and that's how we need to be available for them, is that?

Speaker 2: 24:28

kind of for okay, that's exactly it. If the adults in their lives can be as flexible as possible, that's gonna lead to the best outcomes. Now, obviously this is. It's confusing for anybody, especially. You know I say I'm a practitioner and I've worked with trans folks and non-binary folks for my entire career. You know I've been doing this for over 15 years now.

Speaker 2: 24:54

I don't fully get that understanding and experience Because I'm a cis woman. I haven't lived it. So I wanna validate for parents that don't quite all the way get it, because I intellectually understand these things but I don't have the same lived experience as your kids or teens. I do the best that I can, you know, to meet them where they're at and to understand, but so I really understand where parents are coming from when they say I just don't get it. This is confusing, this is hard, can't they just pick? But it's not about that, it's not about our comfort. It's about them exploring and understanding themselves and recognize, thank you, that it's not just in the teenage years that people are gonna explore. You know, when they get through college or you know out in the working world, how we present to our coworkers and professionally is hopefully very different than we might present with our best friends, you know at brunch on Saturday, you know it might be a little bit more free or you know things like that.

Speaker 2: 26:01

So this is a lifelong thing for everybody. Our identities are always changing and growing and I think it's a good thing when we can model that flexibility to the kids and teenagers in our lives.

Speaker 1: 26:17

Yeah, yeah. And just to add to that, I think, asking them questions and kind of being in that sort of mode of, hey, I need to know, because I kind of am trying to understand where you're coming from, how can I be supportive, things like that. So, yeah, absolutely in terms of letting you know, being there for them in a way that we are also kind of exploring it ourselves. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 26:47

And I think there's a nice balance that parents can do between, you know, doing some research themselves. There's lots of great resources. We can, you know, chat about those. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. In your notes, talking to other parents as well as you know. Ask your kid what it means to them. I have a whole bank of these terms in my head, but every single client I work with you know. I ask what does that mean for you? What does that?

Speaker 2: 27:14

look like on a daily basis. How do you, you know, how do you experience life at school or life with your friends as a result? So really just asking what it means to them and getting to know your kid. And you know, you and I, as therapists, know that starts well before they're teenagers. So hopefully for all the parents that have put in that hard work for all the years they're reaping the benefits, for now they can have these open conversations with their kids.

Speaker 1: 27:44

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and to that sort of effect. I'm also thinking about pronouns, because now we kind of, you know, talk a lot about them, parents who are, you know, caregivers, who are unfamiliar with that. Could you talk a little bit about why it's important to acknowledge, because a lot of times I've heard, in my practice as well, where parents will say but I know them from you, know what they are, and so how does it matter? That's my child. Why is it important?

Speaker 2: 28:23

Yeah. So, raju, if it's okay, I'll use you and me as an example. Absolutely, If I hopped on this morning and I said, hi, sally, how is he doing? I'm sure you would probably have felt really uncomfortable and weird and like, wow, who's this person disrespecting me at, you know, early this morning, that's the way it feels for the kids and teenagers too.

Speaker 2: 28:46

So if someone tells you, you know, we give nicknames to everybody my, you know, my friend, michael, his nickname is Mike. So if we can do that, if we can, you know, get our pets pronouns right, I think it's also really important to make sure that we get our kids pronouns right. You know, and it's honestly, it can be life saving. You know, we know that statistics show that up to 70% of queer and trans kids and teenagers have contemplated suicide. This is not because they're queer or trans, it's because of you know what their experience is out in the world might be, and simply having one affirming adult, one adult in their life that uses the right name, uses the right pronouns, it can reduce that risk by up to 60% and that is a huge deal. And you know, we're not even talking if this person's in therapy or not at the time.

Speaker 2: 29:48

So, parents, I know it's hard, I get it. I strongly encourage, you know, for my kiddos and teenagers that are coming out for parents to you know, maybe either join a support group or talk to other families, maybe do some of their own therapy work, because this is hard and confusing and they deserve that support. I totally get it. You see your daughter that was born to you right and they've been your daughter for 15 years and now all of a sudden you're expected to switch and see your son or see a non-binary person and that can be really really tricky. And if you are putting in the work and you are as consistent as possible when your kid is around, that could literally save their life. And if you have that struggle, that struggle is totally valid. There's lots of resources and lots of folks that would offer support for that. So it's tricky but it's really important and it's respect. We get each other's names right on purpose, so our kids deserve the same respect.

Speaker 1: 30:58

Yeah, yeah, I think I mean thank you again for saying that, because that is something a lot of parents struggle with, especially because they see their child a particular way and there is sort of this kind of this ownership, right, like you're my child, you are my, you know I, I, we are a family. This is how it has been, and so it's really hard. So, yeah, but I think your example of sort of names and you know respect, I think that is so important and crucial, and I think we do come from a place where we are beginning to see parenting with kind of respecting your child versus previous generations where there was a different way of parenting, and so I think that fits with that parenting style as well. So, yeah, that's, that's really well said.

Speaker 2: 32:00

I'm a very big fan of modeling when I work with families and you know I tell a lot of the families that I work with. You know how you talk to your kiddos, or what you talk to them about is how they're going to talk to each other and how they're going to talk back to you. So you know, just modeling that respect of you. Know we get folks's names right, we get pronouns right, we ask about things that we're not sure of and we own up when we make a mistake.

Speaker 2: 32:27

Honestly, that's what I would encourage for all the parents I work with, regardless of what their kiddos you know going through at the time.

Speaker 1: 32:33

Yeah, To kind of like maybe shift gears a little bit in terms of sexual identity, right, you mentioned earlier on that gender identity and sexual identity are two different things and a lot of times we kind of confuse that. Similar to sex and gender, what is the difference?

Speaker 2: 32:57

Yeah, um. So I use two terms. I actually use, um, well, technically, three. I guess there's our sexual identity, there's our relational identity, and then there's also our affectional identity, and so our sexual identity is pretty much what it sounds like. Who am I attracted to? Who do I think is cute or hot, who would I like to maybe have sex with? That could be anything from I like boys, I like girls, I like everyone, I don't want to have sex with anyone. Those are all different versions of sexual identity. Our relational and affectional identities are more about who do I want to be in relationships with, who do I want to be my life partner.

Speaker 2: 33:45

So that could very well look like there's a lot of um, bifolks who are in what we would call straight passing relationships, meaning, uh, you know, a man and a woman married to each other, um, but one or both of the partners may also have, in previous times, or even in their current relationship, have had relationships with the opposite or the same sex as well, and so gender identity and sexual identity can interplay with one another, but they're really different, because one is, you know, gender identity. It's purely about ourselves. How do I see myself and how do I see myself fitting into the world, and our sexual identity and relational identities really do speak to. Who do I go through this life with? And again, they're both fluid, they're both variable, they do both change over the course of our lives, um, and in these teenage years it's really about exploration.

Speaker 2: 34:51

So you could have a kiddo come home one day and say, hey, parents, um, this is my new name and my pronouns are now they and them, and this is my partner. They used to be my girlfriend, but now they're my boyfriend. Um, that could happen and that could change. The next week when you meet the same person you know for Friday night dinner. Um, and that's totally normal. They're just trying, on these terms, to see what fits the best for them. Um, and in terms of how we support, you know, our kids and our teenagers through that, it's the same thing. Be very clear about your family's boundaries and expectations, be really clear in teaching about consent and really just instill that value of respect and empathy in partnership. Um, and you know, that's the best way to make sure that we keep our kids safe again, regardless of identity, regardless of what they're going through.

Speaker 1: 35:49

And how to sort of identities in different ways right. Gender, sexual relational affection, identities kind of impact their relationships with each other in teenage years, because that sort of constant, constant evolving can be hard on on the teenagers themselves but also on forming relationships that are anyway so difficult during that sort of time.

Speaker 2: 36:24

Yeah. So this is a time where, as you know, parents would see and us as therapists would see, lots of you know I call it drama in friendships. To begin with, on Tuesday we're talking to our best friend and on Wednesday we're not, and you know someone going through gender and sexuality exploration. It can be an added layer of distress. Sometimes. The thing that's most important for navigating that is making their world and environment as affirming as possible. So if you know, if teens and kids, if they feel comfortable and confident at home, then that's going to translate out into the world. It's going to translate to their school Parents really doing a good job ensuring safety and teaching boundaries and expectations that align with their family values.

Speaker 2: 37:21

That's another way and you know, being open and flexible with your kids friends, just like you are with your own kids, getting to know your kids friends, is another way to sort of keep an eye on that. I also encourage parents to recognize that. You know we have to walk that fine line of trusting and they're going to have their own worlds. They're going to have things they talk about with friends or you know their finsta, their fake instagram. You know that they have and don't tell us about, but also that safety monitoring. So, again, if parents have put that work in, they've built that foundation with the flexibility and the openness they're going to have less to worry about. But yeah, this is a so many changes, this is the period of so many changes for these kids. It can be difficult on lots of levels, but knowing that they have somebody who's secure and affirming is really the best way that we can help them out.

Speaker 1: 38:25

And what would you sort of in your practice, when you talk to teenagers about exploration, about pure relationships, what are some of the things that you are seeing that they are struggling with with each other?

Speaker 2: 38:43

Most of the kids that I see. The thing that they're struggling with is just the constant change, the. You know, my friend got a boyfriend or girlfriend, they got a partner and now they're not around as much. Or I didn't like this thing that they said about someone else. How do I, how do I confront that and not blow up my relationship? Some kids who are really focused on school and, you know, don't want to do the whole party or go out every weekend scene, maybe feeling left out. Kids that are into that scene but also say, oh, I don't know if that's really for me anymore. You know, how do I, how do I communicate this stuff to my friends and not lose the friendship? So it's really those conflict management skills, the social skills and the communication skills that we're really navigating again and it's across all these different topics. It could be about schoolwork, it could be about friends, about sports, it could be about their identity, right, maybe?

Speaker 2: 39:45

this person I thought was my best friend. Maybe now they have a crush on me, but I don't feel the same way. How do I navigate that? And that's, you know, parents out there, that is happening for all of your kids, whether they're in the LGBT community or not. And you know, like I said, modeling that communication, having the open communication with your kiddos, having good conflict resolution skills ourselves, doing some co-regulation right. Teenagers like to push buttons, they like to take us off. So modeling, you know, those deep breaths and keeping our calm even if on the inside we're freaking out. And actually that's probably one of the best strategies I can encourage parents to use is keep the exterior calm, even if you're freaking out, and you know, just as neutral as possible. Just roll with things like, oh okay, yeah, thanks for telling me, that's really interesting. And then go ahead and call your best friend and freak out because you just again, parents deserve that support. But if we can maintain the neutrality in front of the, the teenagers, that usually helps them.

Speaker 1: 40:55

Keep coming and keep telling us you know what they need, yeah well, this was a wonderful, wonderful conversation and I'm so glad that you know we could talk about this topic and you were so open and warm and with so many examples, I think our listeners are going to really enjoy listening to this conversation. As I have talking to you, we'll put some of the resources in the show notes for parents to kind of even like figure out where to start if their, you know, teenagers are struggling with identity or, you know, need some help with that. So thank you again, amber, for coming on the show and talking to me.

Speaker 2: 41:43

Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 2: 41:45

One final resource I'd like to drop in there that is a really great place for a lot of people to start is your local PFLAG organization. It's P-F-L-A-G-G. That is a literally a parent support organization parents of folks that are in the LGBT community and they have tons of great resources. They have, you know, when to know if your kiddo might benefit from talking to a therapist, support groups for parents, even volunteer activities, just other ways to connect with parents and families in the same boat, and I think that's one of the preeminent resources to start with. So I want to give them a little plug.

Speaker 1: 42:30

Thank you. Thank you that this has been wonderful.

Speaker 2: 42:34

Thank you so much for having me. It's been great You're welcome.