The Art of Parenting Teens: Insights from Janet, a Teen Psychology Specialist

Has parenting a teenager ever left you feeling like you're navigating uncharted waters? Ever wished you could extract wisdom from a seasoned pro who knows the ropes? You're in luck! On this episode, we are joined by Janet, a specialist in teen psychology, who shares her fascinating journey through the world of mental health and how it led her to work with teenagers and their families. Janet's rich background ranges from acquiring a Master's in public health to earning a doctorate in psychology, which equipped her with the skills to work in a residential treatment center for emotionally distressed teens.
Our conversation with Janet is a treasure trove of insights into the art of parenting teens. We debunk myths around teenage behavior and discuss the vital balance of compassion and accountability. Janet enlightens us on how to implement consequences that are not punishments and how to establish and maintain a meaningful connection with your teenager. She also shares her views on respectful parenting and explains how it supports the development of a healthy relationship with your teenager. If you've ever found yourself at wit's end with your teenager’s behavior, Janet's guidance on addressing it without resorting to lectures will be a game-changer.
As we round up our eye-opening chat with Janet, we touch on some overlooked aspects of parenting like gender differences and how cultural attitudes influence the way we parent boys and girls differently. You'll want to hear the interesting perspective Janet offers on this topic. Also, if you’re in search of reading material to help you on your parenting journey, Janet has you covered. She shares a wealth of online resources for parents of teenagers, promising to arm listeners with tools to navigate the challenging yet rewarding world of parenting teens. This episode is a must-listen for parents, educators, and anyone else involved with teenagers. Tune in, and prepare to see the world of parenting teens in a whole new light.

Bio:
Dr. Janet Sasson Edgette is a clinical psychologist with 30 years of experience offering evaluation, counseling, and psychotherapy to children, preteens, teenagers, young adults, and their parents. She has spent her career thinking about how to provide services to kids and teenagers that they actually value and respect, and therefore want to participate in, eliminating the miserable and degrading tug of war and other power struggles that many clinicians endure when working with this population. Besides speaking to professional audiences, Janet has written seven books and dozens of articles in the areas of parenting, counseling, boys, masculinity and gender norms, and sport psychology.

Resources:
1. Matthias J Barker. https://matthiasjbarker.com
2. Dr. Becky  https://www.goodinside.com/workshop/1558/parenting-strategies-problem-behaviors/
3. Lori Gottlieb https://www.instagram.com/lorigottlieb_author/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Hi everyone, I'm Rajuta, host of Answer my Call. I'm a mental health therapist and owner of Mindful Group Practice, located in Pennsylvania. I work primarily with teenagers and women in my practice. I'm a mom to two teenagers, always waiting for them to answer my call. Hi, janet, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2: 0:31

Thank you so much. I appreciate your invitation to be here.

Speaker 1: 0:35

I'm excited. You have written so many amazing books, so I'm also looking forward to an amazing conversation, and so thank you for coming to the podcast and your willingness to speak with me. Oh, my pleasure. And you've worked with teens and you've written so much about parenting, so I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about your journey in terms of working with your parents and teens and how you came about to working in mental health as well.

Speaker 2: 1:11

Sure, yeah, after I graduated college way back when in New York I lived all my life in New York I decided to get a master's in public health. So I went to the University of Oklahoma of all places I don't know, I just wanted some place different. So I got a master's in public health there. But about midway through the program I decided this wasn't exactly what I wanted to do. But I got the master's and then I moved out to California and I started working in women's health care and community education and it was a lot of education and imparting information to people and what I realized was that I wanted to have more influence on them. I didn't want to just impart information and educate, I wanted to influence. And so that brought me into like, okay, well, maybe what I really want to do is more of a counseling kind of had that kind of relationship with people.

Speaker 2: 2:05

So then what I did was I applied and got into graduate school for my doctorate in psychology at Hanuman University, which is not Widener University. But so then that felt like, okay, now this is the right path for me and I loved the program and I loved learning about psychology and therapy and love my professors. And then, when I finished school, my first job was at a residential treatment center for socially and emotionally disturbed teenagers and I loved it and I never looked back. Really, I just loved the population. I felt that there could be a lot of improvements in working with teenagers because I saw what the therapists were doing and getting all these conflicts with their clients and everything just looked so adversarial and like the kids just didn't want to be in their path. Oh, we could do better than this, and so that sort of started me on my journey of figuring out how do we provide a service that kids actually want to use, right, right and that's so, so important right.

Speaker 1: 3:09

Like, as therapists, we want to be able to help teens and parents as well, because, I mean, it's a family unit, so there's so much that goes into working with a teenager. We are working with the entire family unit and a lot of times there is so much like almost like a struggle, because a lot of times parents think, hey, you know, here's my teen fix them Right and I'll drop them off.

Speaker 2: 3:39

I'll be going to Target and I'll be back in 45 minutes Right. And they Except they're not back in 45 minutes if they go to Target. I have so many kids that are stuck here.

Speaker 1: 3:47

Well, I'm currently in Target but anyway, yeah, and you see that in your private practice too, right?

Speaker 2: 3:52

Absolutely. And the other thing, too, is that for a lot of kids, I mean, they're not asking to be here. So, and that's how I got to the title of one of my first books, which is, you know, adolescent therapy that works, helping kids who never asked to be here in their first place.

Speaker 2: 4:04

So, the challenge, working with a lot of adolescents and even many children, is how do you work with someone who's really not asking for the service in the first place? It's somebody else who wants them there. You know, a parent or a school or a probation officer or someone else is saying you need to be here and they're like, well, I have nothing to say, you know. And how do you work with that without feeling like you're in some kind of tug of war? I don't like the feeling of sitting with somebody feeling like I'm trying to pull a conversation out and I won't do that. I'll say, wow, we're having a tough time getting going. What are we going to do about that? So I don't want to get into that.

Speaker 2: 4:42

You know, kind of arm wrestle over. Are you going to give me some words today or not? It's more like you know what needs to happen for this to be a place where you actually want to talk with me. Then we're cooking, then we have something going. But it is hard, like you said, because you have the teenager and then you have the parents and the parents want you to primarily work with the teen. So you know more and more I find parents are more comfortable asking for help. We want help, and this isn't really just my daughter, this is all of us need help. So we want to come to whether they're being seen altogether parents and kid together or whether I'm meeting with the kid and then separately meeting with the parents, which I do a lot of.

Speaker 1: 5:21

Right, right. And is that your process as a therapist in terms of like working with teens?

Speaker 2: 5:29

Yeah, very frequently. I mean, I meet initially with the teenager and his or her parent or parents or guardian or grandparents whoever it's, you know, really primarily raising them and then, after that initial session, we get a conversation going. You know, sometimes parents will say, oh, why don't I come in before and tell you about my son, and then you could meet with him? And then I'm like, well, no, because then what am I going to say? Like I'm going to sit here and say, well, your mom said you did blah, blah, blah. That's not a conversation I want to have. So I say let's all sit down together and let's have a conversation about it. So then, after that first visit, I'll invite the teenager to come back and see me privately for a time or two, and then usually I circle back to the parents.

Speaker 2: 6:11

I don't like keeping parents in the dark. I think they're often left out of the loop because we were taught, well you know, confidentiality and kids won't talk if unless it's all private. But that's really not the case. I find, in fact, that most kids are eager to have their parents understand more about them and about their life and what they're going through, and they need somebody to facilitate that. So I find that what? Whereas many therapists will not see kids and the parents together because they think it's conflict of interest, I come out and I say Look, I'm on everybody's side here, and I think the answer to some of the problems really doesn't involve supporting one person at the expense of another. I think we can find a solution for everybody in one conversation, and so I do comfortably speak with parents and then in separate session with their kids, and sometimes all together, and, you know, moving back and forth pretty fluidly between those different types of settings.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Yeah, and that's so great because I think a lot of therapists, myself included, kind of we struggled with the, with the HIPAA component, the confidentiality component of it. Right, and how do you? How do you talk to parents without breaking confidentiality with the with the teen? My go to has been, you know, if the teenager is comfortable, bring the parents in with them. If they are not, then I talk to the parents separately, which you know the teenagers usually agree to. I mean, I have had teens who've said no, I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, who will say I don't want my parent to be in this room with me. You know.

Speaker 2: 7:45

Oh, my God, right, yeah, I mean, I'll absolutely like. I'll say Okay, listen, you know, I'm thinking of meeting with your parents because I think I can help them understand this and this might make blah, blah, blah better. And what do you think? And they're like Okay, so you know, I say Is there anything you want to make sure I don't bring up with them? Yeah, Okay, and then usually the things that are really secret are much less than people think, so like they really are. It's not about that. But anyway, but as a courtesy, I offer that and then they'll say, yeah, well, just like she doesn't know that I snuck out last night, or okay that's not a problem, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 8:22

But I say this is what I have in mind to talk, to talk with your parents about what do you think? And then, and then I say, Do you want to come? And they're like, oh my God, no right, it's like they don't want to be part of the session. I said, that's fine, I got it, I'll take it from here. Yeah, but I think there's too much fractioning. You know, families are already so fractured. I don't want to be part of continuing that by saying, you know, oh, yeah, I'm going to meet with your kid, but I'm not going to tell you anything about what's going on and you have to go to a separate therapist for that and we have to. That's not the direction I want to take families. I want to take them to a place where they can have this conversation or these conversations together Eventually, because I'm not going to hang around all the time. You know I won't be there, Right?

Speaker 2: 9:06

And I want them to be able to talk to one another.

Speaker 1: 9:08

Yeah, no, and I totally get that, like in terms of seeing them as a family unit, that the teen has to live with their parents and parents have to live with their child, right, like if they don't kind of get along with each other and understand each other and collaborate with each other. We can work with the teen, we can work with an individual. It's not going to work. So I absolutely get that.

Speaker 2: 9:34

I mean sometimes with older kids, older teenagers. Their issues don't have to do so much with the family. There's not a lot of attention. They're working out some things on their own, either in their future or with, pardon me, about their friends or some other personal issues, and in that case, you know, I don't need to meet with the parents and I'll say, yeah, we're good, we got it, it's okay, unless there's something in particular that comes up. So a lot of the work I do with teens may not involve parents at all, but it's usually because there's it's not critical for the kid to get better Right.

Speaker 1: 10:05

Right. So how do you then work with the parents who, like you mentioned, are very much involved with their child, with their teen? They want to help. How do you kind of work with the parents in that sort of setting?

Speaker 2: 10:23

So when I'm in with parents, I'm pretty, I'm pretty candid with them about their kid. You know, a lot of times I'll talk, you know, I might say something like you're trying so hard to help her and you feel really bad for her and she knows that, and so I think she's exploiting that and so she gets you to do all these things for her and then she's not getting any batting practice at learning how to, you know, fill in the blank, bubba, whatever you know, be responsible for herself or be a better citizen of the family or, you know, become more independent and autonomous or find things out for herself. So you know, as long as your support is being offered to her, she's not going to turn it down because nobody would. So here's what I'm going to help you take a step back and also want to help you know what to say when your daughter objects and says hey, you know, you know why are things changing? And everything that I'm saying to you I would say in front of your daughter too, or to your daughter.

Speaker 2: 11:19

So you know, lots of times therapists will ask me Well, you're talking with parents, let's say, and the parents don't have any kind of consequences in place and they're not very firm about limits or boundaries and the kids just kind of ruling the rules. And I might be saying to the parents Listen, I think you know, let me help you develop some systems at home so you can hold your daughter to be more accountable, and they'll say, okay, you know. Well, we just ask her, you know, to please don't yell at us or please don't be disrespectful, or please not to you know, be mean to her brother and please to clean up or please to be nicer to grandma. But nothing happened. I say I understand that. So let me help you put some consequences in place. You know, I said they're not. They're not punishments, they're just it's a way of saying to a kid I wish I could just ask you to do these things by asking you and that you would respond. But my words aren't enough and I get that. So I'm going to draw in something that that matters more to you and it's fine. So if I'm going to watch you be mean or say something mean to your brother, I'm going to stop you and I'm going to now ask you to do your brother's chores for the day.

Speaker 2: 12:26

So that kind of consequence it's not always taking away. It could be saying you know, you know he had to fill the water bowls for the animals and get their food. Now, that's going to be your job for the day. But I will say the same thing to the kid. I'll say you begin a free ride there and I don't know how happy you are feeling, like you can say the things that you say to your family members. I don't know that it feels really good to you, but I need to help your parents find a way to stop it, to shut it down. They've asked you. It doesn't work, that's fine.

Speaker 2: 12:55

So I've suggested some things and they'll be like well, what are you suggesting? Are you going to have them take my phone? I'm like I don't know. They can't put you on the stairs and give you a timeout, and then they'll usually laugh with me and they know, yeah, all right. You know somebody's got to say look you. Just, you got to do this, you got to be better or nicer, show up differently.

Speaker 2: 13:17

So for me, it's not a conflict to meet with both parties the kid and the parents, helping the parents hold the kid to account but that's a lot of what I will do. On the other hand, there are parents who are just so resentful and angry. I'm like whoa whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, like, let me tell you what your kid's takeaway is. When you come at them like that, you know and you may think you're making a point, but all they hear is you've hijacked the conversation that they were trying to have with you. And they want to. I think your kid is looking for connection here, and when you respond like that, I think you've lost them. So you know it works all which way.

Speaker 1: 13:58

It works both ways and therefore, like you said, we have to work with all parties involved to make the relationships work. And I think what you said about parenting in general is also interesting. So could you elaborate a little bit about your philosophy on parenting? Is there one? How do you kind of work with parents when they come to you and say, for example, that you know we ask them politely or gently to not talk to us rudely or, you know, respond appropriately? How do you navigate that?

Speaker 2: 14:42

So for me, my parenting style and my therapy style have a lot of commonalities. For me, respect is the most important thing, it's the most important ingredient in any relationship, and so my respecting my children was very important, at the same time holding them accountable for their choices. So I think one of the hardest tasks of parenthood and of being a therapist is of balancing one's expression of compassion and sensitivity to their plate with the need to hold them to account for their choices or their behavior. And lots of times parents struggle with that and they'll lean heavily on one end. They'll be overly sympathetic and not be able to hold their kid to account, or they're too harsh and everything is about accountability and there's no compassion or respect that's expressed to the kid. And I feel like in many ways parents undervalue the quality of respecting their kid's inner relationship and I think part of that is because we have this you know cultural narrative here in this country that says well, you know, once your teen hits puberty, he or she is going to become moody and, you know, disrespectful and not want to help out and want to only be with his friends and be with them. Be with his friends and be very withdrawn and isolate and all that stuff, and I don't believe that to be true. I think that's a function of other things which I'll talk about in a moment, but I think this particular narrative creates a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Speaker 2: 16:18

So a lot of parents will, you know, be talking with their kid and maybe their kid is not in a great mood coming home from school and the parent just pummels them with questions how is school? What's? How is school? And the kid's like it was fine. And you know, I just want to go up to my room and the parent says oh well, of course, because you're 14 and so you're a teenager and that's why and they never get a chance to see that. No, that's not why that wasn't an invitation to a conversation, it was an invitation to an unpleasant interaction.

Speaker 2: 16:50

And so the kid, you know, we, I see teenagers leaving the conversation and leaving the room and leaving the relationships, not because they're adolescents, but because what's being offered to them is not appealing and it's not respectful. And I think if we could help parents recognize that the ways in which they reach out to their kids or talk to them or respond to them or react to them, play a role in a lot of the challenges that they're having with their kids, then we really could do a lot for changing parenting relationships and mitigating this cultural myth that says all teens become difficult when they're pure. I don't think that's true at all and I think the whole adolescent angst stuff is something of our own making and I think it's really unfortunate because I think it makes the expectations for teenagers low. It's kind of like okay. So when we don't make distinctions between what is teenage behavior and what is bad teenage behavior, then we leave room for all teenage behavior just to be seen as normal.

Speaker 2: 17:59

You know what's called as typical teen behavior. When some of it's not, it's like no, kids don't have to be rude, Kids don't have to be disrespectful, Kids don't have to push off all their responsibilities. They go there because we let them right, Because we expect them to go there. So we say, oh well, of course she's a teenager, what can I expect? And so we let it go. We don't say, hey, I think you could do better than that.

Speaker 1: 18:21

So I think what I'm also hearing you say is like really thinking about the distinction between sort of the biological hormonal changes that teens go through but so do a lot of people throughout their lives, right, like women go through menopause, and so, you know, kind of looking at those changes as a normal process and then looking at their behavior also as a social process or a cultural process, in which we have created kind of this narrative that, hey, you know, teenagers are supposed to be quote unquote unhappy or angry or not really, you know they don't come out of their rooms or they are in their own shell or bubble, and so as parents, we need to kind of let them be, do what they want or excuse that behavior as quote unquote teen behavior, right and that's a problem.

Speaker 2: 19:23

I mean, can you imagine it? You were just mentioning, you know, the hormones and natural developmental processes in women going, you know, through menopause. Can you imagine if we were saying, well, you know, this person is acting really weird and I don't think I can have relationship with her because she's going through menopause?

Speaker 1: 19:38

I mean it's so offensive.

Speaker 2: 19:39

It's like you know what has happening in your body and including some extra. You know stressors or things may be challenging. It isn't a commentary on your ability to have a healthy relationship with somebody. So it's like people went ballistic when they said, oh, females can't be airline pilots because they're going to have their periods every month and they're not going to. They're going to be too emotionally labelled. Oh my god, you know people went crazy with that. Are we saying anything really different when we say, well, my kid, he's a teenager, so what can I expect? It's the same insulting, it's commentary, yeah.

Speaker 1: 20:12

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 20:13

Here's it. It's like there's a big difference between a teenager 14, 16, who's arguing with her parent, trying to get the parent to let them drive at night into town to go see a concert you know, and the judgment is not great, but that you know and pushing back against the parents. A big difference between that and a kid who curses her parents in her face at you because the parents trying to take her phone because she hasn't done homework for a month. That's not. That's not adolescence. That last example.

Speaker 2: 20:43

That's just being rude. Yeah, that's just rude, and so there's a big difference.

Speaker 1: 20:47

Yeah, absolutely. And also the fact that we are okay with that behaviour and take it as an excuse for, like, they are just growing up, they are learning, or you know, harmoniously. That's where they are. I think we are also raising them to be very impatient, rude adults, right as parents.

Speaker 2: 21:10

Absolutely, oh my God, totally agree, because nobody's correcting it, nobody's correcting the behaviour. So an older brother comes home from school and sees, or in the evening, and sees the younger brother who's very upset, sitting in a corner because he was goalie and he gave up the last goal for the soccer game and the other team won okay.

Speaker 2: 21:31

And the older brother comes in and says, oh, nice job, you know, or, yeah, I heard about that nice job, something snarky, right? And then the parent says well, they're brothers. You know, you should have seen what I said to my brother. But no, the parent has a beautiful opportunity there to say whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, and call the older one over and say of all the things that you could have said to your brother, you chose that. Now this is a moment where the older brother suddenly becomes he's being held to account for what he said in that moment and in the relationship with his parent. Okay, usually it's just easy, because the parent says, oh, be nicer, be nicer, you had a hard day, and nothing changes. The kid goes on to the kitchen, get some to eat, nothing changes.

Speaker 2: 22:15

But when you call the kid over and say whoa, it's like you just spend time for a moment and you hold them in the moment you're saying, of all the things, you chose that, and then they don't know what to say.

Speaker 2: 22:26

They're looking at you and you just say I don't know, I would have liked to see you do better, and then you let it go. Right, you know you don't like she let it go. But now they're feeling a little uncomfortable. Maybe they go back and they say, hey, sorry, maybe they don't, but you do that enough times and there becomes, you know, an awareness, a you know. It's the moment before you blurt something out where you're aware oh, the last time I did this, something unpleasant followed. Oh right, my mom called me over and made me account for that. And so you begin to build in restraint, right and sensibilities and empathy that way, and it doesn't take a whole lot, but it does take the time taken out of your day in that moment to say, whoa, I don't want to raise children who talk to each other like that. We can do so much better.

Speaker 2: 23:12

Let's do that and that's how parents can build certain cultures in their home, cultures of kindness. But it takes a lot of attention and it's not through lecture, and it's through being that as well. And you know, when we don't do that, we don't correct this stuff and, yes, and this becomes a rude young adult, his older brother.

Speaker 1: 23:30

I think a lot of struggle as parents is when we try to correct behaviors. We are either like confrontational, we are angry ourselves, we get irritable right and we say things that perhaps in the moment are not that great. Do you have any suggestions in terms of how do you communicate with your teenagers when they do misbehave? What are some of the ways that can be helpful without lecturing them or kind? Of being overtly preachy, which within two seconds they are like all right, I'm shut off.

Speaker 2: 24:07

I've checked out, you can talk Right, yeah, right. Well, I think less is more in this kind of situation. I think if parents who are yellers, or who you know use every opportunity to make a point, realize that it's not working. It hasn't been working, it'll be hard for them to not just react, but to think about how do they want to show up differently as a parent and this is a conversation I might have with a parent in my office how would you like to show up differently? How would you like to look back and think about how you handle that? And a lot of them will say well, I, you know, I'd like to not yell, I'd like to, you know, keep my temper. Okay, let's talk about how you can do that, and part of that is starting to respond to something you don't like earlier in the process. Okay, so, in other words, rather than waiting and waiting and waiting until you're so frustrated, you just blow early on. You say, okay, but this is, this is the point where, like it usually doesn't end well, I'm getting more frustrated, I feel blown off by you, and I don't want it to go where it usually does. I'm not sure what else to do, though. Could we find a solution. Okay, that's one thing.

Speaker 2: 25:18

Another thing is for the parent to disengage from the outcome, so that if you have a parent who is worried about their 10th grader failing math and they're on them case all the time, you know math and it's causing all the problems, what if? And I'll say the what, okay, so stop what happens. Let's say you, let's go there, let's go there. Your kids failed math. Then what? Oh my gosh. Well then, and I said, everything you just listed is manageable, it's manageable and it's, I think, it's preferable to what you have going on now, because it looks like he's going to fail anyway. And now you have this conflict, and it wouldn't be the worst lesson. The worst lesson would be for him, for you, to subsidize his academic functioning by pushing him and holding him and carrying him all the way, and then leave him off the college and then he's a crash and burn because he hasn't developed the skills. When you were around to help him, you know somebody who loves him and care about. So that's another way. And a third thing that parents could do is to learn especially with kids who are trying to get them engaged in a quote, a negotiation, which is just really manipulation is to learn how to say I'm not going there with you.

Speaker 2: 26:30

That was an unfortunate choice. Here's the consequence, and we'll talk another time about it. Keep it really simple. That was an unfortunate choice. You've lost your phone for a half hour. Not a big deal. If you press on me it'll go more, so just take the half hour. You get it right back and we'll go on business as usual. Just not a good choice, not going there, that kind of stuff, rather than get engaged.

Speaker 1: 26:53

I like that because it has a very time-sensitive consequence as well. It's take away your phone for half an hour. It's not like okay, you've lost your phone forever. It doesn't work.

Speaker 2: 27:05

It really doesn't work. It doesn't work, it doesn't, and you lose your leverage too. It just gets kids really angry and it's very threatening to them. So, like a half hour, and for kids, younger kids, sometimes I say, you know like I'll tell the parents maybe she's lost five minutes of her iPad time. It's five minutes, that's enough. It's just to make a point. It's just to make a point that this is not a freebie. It's not a freebie, that's it. It's not to punish and then eventually things can change that way.

Speaker 1: 27:36

I really do like that and so, on that note, do you have any kind of suggestions around parenting and consequences, right Like boundaries and discipline, for example? Currently we are sort of in that, I think, mindset of gentle, parenting, quote, unquote and so what are some of the things that you are seeing in your own practice? But also you've written a couple of books on strategies on parenting and for parenting. So, in terms of sort of ideas and suggestions, what are your thoughts around consequences, discipline, parenting, boundaries?

Speaker 2: 28:20

Yeah, I think it's essential. You know, gentle parenting can mean anything to any number of people. But you know, it sounds like we're talking about a family unit where the parents don't want to impose any consequences. They're hoping you do everything by positive reinforcement. Everything's gentle. But here's the thing it sounds wonderful and I like the concept of gentle in terms of relating to you know, because I think of, like when I was raising my boys I have three of them it's like I held their heart in my hands. So I'm always so careful, you know, like, yeah, they're heart in your hands, so the gentle appeals to me.

Speaker 2: 28:57

That being said, I feel that kids know when their parents are sacrificing the real relationship in order to keep a false peace you know what I mean Like that the parent is not holding them to account, because kids know they shouldn't be able to do this, that shouldn't be able to be rude, or you know they have to be better citizen around the house, or they have to whatever.

Speaker 2: 29:23

So kids know that. So when they see parents forfeiting that and saying, oh, it's okay, because I don't want to be in a conflict or I want you to like me, they don't respect it and they lose respect for the parent and I think credibility and respect are the two things that are essential for a healthy relationship that you are credible to the teenager, whether it be a client or it be your child, in the sense that they have faith in you and your integrity and your ability to stand by what you believe to be true. If you think that there's boundaries that should be here and that you don't want your kid in truiting and conversations or in your room or on your privacy, then you say that's not okay, and I would like to believe you would just do it because I'm asking you, but if not, then I'll impose some consequences because, I really can't have you barging in here.

Speaker 2: 30:14

It's just, it's rude and I don't want that. And you say it in a way that's respectful and you're letting the kid know that it's respectful, you're credible, you're holding them to account. Those are the three foundation pillars of my parenting and my therapy, and it could all be done in a very, very for parenting, loving and affectionate way, compassionate way. But you have to be able to say no and you have to be able to know that your kids will respond to that, because without that, then a lot of things deteriorate after that.

Speaker 2: 30:46

Yeah, I love that there was no yelling. There was no yelling in my household. No yelling Didn't need to. We respected one another and when somebody asked, we wanted to respond. We wanted to do for the other, and that's a climate that can be cultivated by the parents if they want.

Speaker 1: 31:05

I love that, I truly love that. Do you see sort of any gender differences when it comes to parenting, in terms of, specifically in terms of boys you've written about bullying and boys who are non-athletes. Do you kind of see, culturally, any struggles when it comes to boys in particular, but I'm also thinking about girls gender differences when it comes to school and at home, you know, in terms of parenting?

Speaker 2: 31:41

Yeah, well, you know, this is your, your reference in my book the Last Boys.

Speaker 2: 31:46

Pick helping boys who don't like sports survive bullies and boyhood. And that addresses our socio-cultural attitude, that you know all boys play sports and you know, don't they? And you know all boys like to wrestle and you know get dirty and sweaty and muddy and you know, or aggressive, and you know sort of alpha, and it's like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's just not true.

Speaker 2: 32:14

A lot of boys, of course, you know, I mean Steri, yes, of course, most boys, we can say, but not all boys. And so when we ignore these other boys, these boys whose strongest traits are not in the physical but in other areas, you know, any other areas, then we're not really being coming aware of the challenges that they face psychologically and socially. And you know, the book came out of my personal experience because of my three boys, two or twins, one very athletic and the other one not. And I saw very early on the differences because, like first grade, at the bus stop and you know one boy would be playing with the other boys' football, you know and the other boys stuck standing next to the moms and the girls. I mean, I'm sure he hated it, but you know, and then so that that sort of comfort with one's body and recognition for being good at throwing and running gets you a lot of social capital.

Speaker 2: 33:13

And so then you get confident. So you know, austin grew up with this sort of jaunty confidence and being very good at sports. And then Jake's trying to find his confidence from other things. And I said I said the things that you are good at they show on the inside. They don't. Austin's stuff shows on the outside, but, jake, your stuff is on the inside and people will see that one day, but it's going to be later and helping him to keep his confidence in himself and the recognition that what he was good at in terms of you know people's skills and empathy and compassion and perceptiveness, in terms of understanding the dynamics between people and all kinds of other things. You know that all came forward.

Speaker 2: 33:58

But a lot of parents, you know, they try and make that kid become an athlete. And I understand why because they want an athletic son or because they see he's getting teased for not being athletic and so they want to help them. It's sometimes out of very good intentions, but it's a real miss if the kid is not into that and doesn't feel that he's valued for what he brings to the table and that can cause tremendous, tremendous, you know, harm in terms of self-esteem and mood and so forth. So you know, my point of the book is to point out that there are these boys. We need to validate their non-physical traits and skills and we need more of them, because the problems aren't going to be solved by muscle alone. And we need boys who are good ambassadors and who you know are good in diplomats and good in other areas, because we need them.

Speaker 1: 34:48

And do you see similar things with girls? Well, girls.

Speaker 2: 34:53

You know now it's becoming almost as expected of girls as it is of boys that they become athletes. So there's a similar pressure, not at all like it is with boys, because it's broader than just athletics, it's the whole demeanor right. So with girls I see that trend, but not as strongly. So girls don't get as marginalized and as penalized socially as a boy. Might you know who doesn't adhere to traditional, you know gender norms. It's easier for girls there's a little bit more margin in there to wiggle around without it meaning anything.

Speaker 1: 35:30

Wow, that was such an amazing conversation with so many different layers and complexities. Kind of could you talk a little bit about some of the resources that parents can tap into when it comes to parenting and teens? I mean, all your books are available and that's going to go in the show notes. They're amazing.

Speaker 2: 35:52

Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much. You know, the one that might be very relevant to your audience is the parenting one. Stop negotiating with your teen strategies for parenting or depressed, angry, moody, minute adolescent. You know there's also. I have Instagram and social media, twitter and Facebook too, where I post a lot of articles and so forth, and looked in. Now you know if there's so much online. Oh my gosh, there's so much online. It's hard to pick. They all have different approaches.

Speaker 1: 36:22

And that's totally fine. It's just, you know, like a lot of times, parents who want to do more, and the first thing we do is go on Google and figure things out, and there's so much there. But since you've written extensively on teenagers, I was wondering if there was a book, a podcast, a something that parents could go back to and I can definitely put that in my show notes so that they can you know, kind of look into that.

Speaker 2: 36:54

Yes, I do have some. I don't have the tip of my tongue right now, but I do have people that I think are doing a fabulous job in their social media accounts, or books for parents, and I'd love to share those with your audience. So I'll get this to you.

Speaker 1: 37:08

Thank you so much, Janet. This was such a lovely conversation.

Speaker 2: 37:13

Same. I really enjoyed it yeah and learned so much.

Speaker 1: 37:16

Parenting is hard. There's no manual. It's hard, and teenage years are something so thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 37:24

You're so welcome. Thank you for having me.