Understanding and Navigating Anxiety in Teens: A Guide to Parenting with Compassion and Effective Strategies

In part 2 of our conversation, Kim Zahlaway provides practical advice for parents to work with their teenagers who are experiencing anxiety. This was a masterclass on parenting.

What if I told you, you're not alone in your struggle with understanding your anxiety and effectively parenting your teens? Just for you, we've got an enriching episode shedding light on these very topics, featuring our guest, Kim Zahlaway. Together, we navigate the complex world of anxiety, differentiating it from stress, and discussing its physical manifestations. Kim offers intriguing insights into seeing anxiety as a signal for something that needs attention and the ways to differentiate it from everyday nervousness.

Transitioning to the challenging terrain of parenting teenagers, we explore the pressures it brings and the need for creating some breathing space. Kim shares tried-and-tested strategies including 'Know for Now' and 'Circling Back', along with the acronym 'WAIT', that can serve as a compass during this stage. We confront our common fear of failure and explore how to cultivate a deep sense of connection and mutual respect with our teens.

In the final part of our discussion, we focus on setting boundaries, understanding teen anxiety, and the importance of technology spot-checks. With Kim's expertise, we delve into the need for resetting conversations and providing language around privacy versus public behavior. Wrapping up with an exploration of embracing mistakes and managing expectations, Kim helps us see the necessity of an accepting and understanding environment, where mistakes are not a source of guilt or shame, but a tool for growth. Tune in for an episode packed with practical advice and strategies that will help you navigate the tides of anxiety and the high seas of parenting.

Bio:
Kim Zahlaway is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and founder of U Got This Counseling Services, LLC in Berwyn, PA, providing children, adolescents, and adults counseling services for over 25 years. In addition, Kim offers Parent Coaching sessions to parents of kids of any age and Life Coaching to young adults through her Young Adult Transformations Coaching Services. ADHD and Anxiety, and their impact on school, family, work, relationships, daily life, mental health and life’s transitions, have become Kim’s areas of expertise. 

Utilizing a strength-based, individualized approach to support the social, emotional, and cognitive well-being of her clients, Kim has developed a three-phase treatment model called S.D.E.P.S. through which she engages clients of any age in a process of Self-Discovery, Empowerment and Problem Solving.  Kim’s training and treatment orientation includes CBT, Mindfulness-based cognitive and behavior therapy, Family Systems, Integrative, Humanistic, Attachment Theory, Relational and Solution Focused Therapy.

Kim also provides consultations and presentations to parent groups, community organizations, educational settings, and professional organizations on topics relevant to raising teens in today’s world including anxiety, parenting and the use and impact of technology and social media.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Hi, kim, welcome back. Hi, thank you for having me back. Oh, you're most welcome. I'm so excited again to talk to you about kind of a little bit of shift here in terms of anxiety, talking more about what kind of anxieties we see in adolescence, but also kind of pulling it back into what we are seeing with parenting itself and with so much information out there and kind of I mean, I've done this myself, sort of gone on social media and looked at different resources to parent. So I want to kind of talk about both in terms of what anxiety is, but also in terms of as parents, what are? How are we kind of? You know, maybe we are anxious parents, maybe we are avoiding, maybe we are secure, but what are our parenting styles as well? So if we could start a little bit with just sort of talking about what is anxiety and when should we be concerned, Okay, sure, well, thank you again for having me back to continue our conversation.

Speaker 2: 1:23

I think anxiety is best understood as an emotion characterized by feelings of tension or worried thoughts or physical changes that we feel in our body. I think, you know, a lot of times we understand anxiety as our fight or flight organic system and messaging for when we might be in danger or there's something to fear. But I and I think that it's it's best sort of thought about as a warning sign, because sometimes anxiety happens and then we react to it or respond to it without taking the pause to think about is this something that I'm really I need to be fearful of, or is this just a thought I'm having that's creating this fear? I like to use the example of like a smoke detector.

Speaker 2: 2:26

Like, a smoke detector is designed to go off when there's smoke, in case there's fire, and sometimes anxiety is the alarm that goes off in case there's smoke, in case there's fire, and so sometimes we have to stop and think about, gather the facts, you know how, and so that we can really start to look at what do we need to do in that moment when we're feeling all of that physiological response to the feeling of fear or worry.

Speaker 1: 2:58

So what I'm also hearing you say is that anxiety is both emotional and physical, that we see it manifest in our body as well.

Speaker 2: 3:11

Right. It's a, I think, an emotional response that we feel and notice changes in our body which makes it something to be concerned about right it is something that we notice, those changes, we feel like something's wrong and we and, and I think then learning what to do next becomes the key.

Speaker 1: 3:31

Yeah, yeah, and I mean anxiety is a word now that gets thrown around so often. I hear my own clients who are teens, my own kids, who will say oh, I am anxious, I feel anxiety. In your view, what is the difference between feeling nervous and feeling anxious? Because that's something, again, like I said, we throw the word around so often that we are not able to distinguish between quote unquote normal feelings of sort of nervousness or you know, and actually feeling anxious.

Speaker 2: 4:17

Yeah, and I think it's an important distinction, because I try to draw the comparison a lot between stress and anxiety right, so that if we're feeling stressed, usually that's something that's about something temporary. It's typically a problem that might have a solution or a situation that has kind of a beginning, a middle, an end like taking a final exam or a competitive event and or doing something new right that there's an expected amount of stress or distress that we're going to feel in those moments because we're we don't know what's going to happen and we're invested in the situation. And then anxiety typically is a more, a stronger physiological response and often is occurring without a direct trigger or reason.

Speaker 1: 5:20

So one of the distinguishing features can be.

Speaker 2: 5:24

When we're stressed about something, we usually know it. When we're anxious about something or we're feeling anxious, we don't always know why. It kind of comes like a wave and it doesn't always have. It's not always tied to a specific event, can be.

Speaker 2: 5:42

But not all the time, so I think, yeah, I think that understanding those differences is really key to learning how to work with the feelings, because, again, we're coming back to the moment in time where either it's a teen, a child or teen feeling that feeling, or a parent feeling that feeling and then being uncomfortable and then not knowing what to do. You know, when it's stress, we know what to do. Well, we have to keep studying, and then we have to take the test, and then we get to put it away, or we're training for something or practicing for something, and then we, you know, have that event, or then the outcome happens and then we move on. You know, but where anxiety is a little less predictable, most of the time, yeah, and one of the things that you mentioned is that it's also physiological.

Speaker 1: 6:36

It's, you know, we feel it in our body. Are there any sort of signs, if you will, in terms of how we feel it in the body, and do you think that we kind of feel it in the body and then it sort of registers that, you know, in our brain, or is it together, you know?

Speaker 2: 6:59

Well then, you know the nature of anxiety being a feeling would, the way that the brain registers emotion in the amygdala, it overrides the thinking brain. So oftentimes, yes, it is going to be a feeling that comes through you or through your body, and then it's going to shut down the cognitive thinking part of your brain for a little while until the physiological intensity subsides a bit and then you can start getting into okay, well, what happened, what do I need to do, what strategies do I know, you know, to help me through this.

Speaker 2: 7:43

So I think to the part of the question about how does it present? You know I think everybody experiences it slightly differently, but oftentimes it's nervous stomach or upset stomach. Sweaty hands generate feeling, it can be moodiness, irritability, it can be oppositionality, and so I think that there's a lot of different ways that it can present, which also leaves it misunderstood. A lot of the time. We don't notice anxiety as anxiety until we learn how to read the signs of our body and our experience of anxiety.

Speaker 1: 8:24

Yeah, that's such an amazing point because a lot of times, anxiety presents as anger. Anxiety presents, as you know, disgust. It can present as a completely different emotion a lot of times, and especially in terms of teens, where so much other stuff is already happening, and I think, even as adults, because we are so busy with so many different things, that we don't really recognize the emotion, the actual emotion that we are feeling. So, yeah, I mean, I think this is such a great point that we really have to kind of recognize what it actually feels like and so, taking that time to reflect One of the things that you mentioned, as you know, like anxiety presenting as oppositional, and I'm curious to know more about that, because that's something we don't talk about as much. So could you sort of elaborate on that?

Speaker 2: 9:28

Sure, when I do parent coaching for parents with kids of any age with anxiety, one of the things we talk about is that anxiety often presents as first response no. So no is the answer to anything. Because when I say no to whatever you're asking me to do or whatever Experience you are asking me to have, or whatever is coming my way socially or academically and all arenas, I feel like I I'm not just in control, but I Understand what no will mean. Then I know, I know if I say no, I will not have to handle my feelings or deal with my feelings. And then second response is yes. So first response from a child or a teen can be met by parents with, with recognition that anxiety just entered the situation.

Speaker 2: 10:26

Anxiety is now in the room, and so you're really parenting the anxiety first and then Working with your child or teen to get to whatever needs to happen in that moment and then, when you can, when you can meet that anxiety with validation and recognition of what, what's happening. Okay, clearly You're feeling worried about this, or I understand that this is new, you know or sometimes we have a choice about whether we can do this thing, but now we, today, we actually have to do it. So let's figure out how we're gonna do it, not whether or not we're gonna do it, and you start to move them back to, like Dan's seat Goes work, the yes brain, trying to move them into their yes brain so that then they can Fig figure out, okay, Well if I have to do this thing.

Speaker 2: 11:14

These are some of the things that I need in order to help myself Feel more comfortable. I might need to be able to take breaks, I might need to be able to leave if I need to. Or can we set up a, you know, a sign or a signal that that allows you to know how I'm feeling in this moment?

Speaker 2: 11:31

I mean, obviously kind of depends on the scenario, but I think that's a good thing to do it. I mean, obviously kind of depends on the scenario, but yeah, the the goal is to be working with that anxious first, that first response, know that anxious response to something, and not letting that derail Things. Because I think we're parents and we're met with no, we have a, you know, very visceral reaction. Usually is our own anxiety yeah, okay, now what am I gonna do? I need you to do this thing, and now you're throwing down no, and I can't figure out what's gonna happen next now, and so it's kind of staying in it, right, and a lot of what we, I think, are we are being challenged by with things like technology and the fast pace of life and and even Having more information and knowledge about our, our psychological well-being, we we're still struggling with sometimes staying in our feelings.

Speaker 2: 12:33

Oh yeah in the moment we want to avoid, so no is also a way to avoid what's happening, and that's all part of that, I think. Oppositional presentation.

Speaker 1: 12:42

Yeah, yeah, and so true. I have so many thoughts here in my mind because and I'm laughing because that I mean having Experienced it so many times was the instinct is to avoid and say no, not gonna do that, because it's too hard for me, it's too much for me, it's overwhelming for me. And Recognizing that as part of anxiety is so hard, not just as I mean for parents, for sure, but also for our teens, and to your point of kind of as parents reacting and Saying why is this? No, I mean, it's such a simple thing, right like in our head. It's really. We're coming from the perspective of I've just asked you to do something that is quote-unquote, normal and regular, and you're saying no to that.

Speaker 2: 13:36

Yeah, oftentimes the anxious child is the pacer in the family. I love that yeah and you have to work out how Do we as a parent and adults, with all of our best intentions and every moment of parenting and just trying to sometimes get through the day or Just you know kind of, or are, or valuing something?

Speaker 2: 13:59

and so we want our family, to learn how to, how to value that thing as well. And then we're met with that resistance. You know it's it paces us and that's really hard, because that brings up a whole other wave of feelings for ourselves.

Speaker 1: 14:12

Yeah, yeah, and I'm also kind of thinking in terms of our own anxiety as parents, right, so that, and what you just mentioned in terms of the anxious child being the pacer in the family, it's a family unit and each member of the family has their own anxiety or their own kind of nervousness, stress. However we want to put that uhugi, how do we kind of figure that piece out that there are? There are, say, four or five people now involved in this family unit and we bring something to the table, right in terms of our own anxieties. So I'm gonna, I guess the question is, as parents, right, how do we recognize our own anxieties? Because a lot of times, parents of teens and I've been there so many times where it's an immediate, no, because kids are growing up, they're teenagers, they're driving, they're exploring.

Speaker 2: 15:26

Right, yeah, I mean, I think we have to learn how to do the same work that we're asking our kids and teens to do In some ways, as adults, we have it easy because we get to choose what we wanna do or not do a lot of the time.

Speaker 2: 15:43

If we don't want to go to this social event or if we need to run errands in a certain way that helps us reduce our own anxiety, we're able to do those things. But kids have to do a lot of things that make them anxious, and they have to do them anyway, and as parents we often expect them to. Or we'll say there's nothing to worry about, or what are you afraid of? Or this is fine, but they're already telling you they're not fine. They're already telling you they're not okay. So I think, in order to work with our kids and our teens who have anxiety or anxious responses to things, we have to be able to learn how to recognize the same things in us.

Speaker 2: 16:31

What are the physiological symptoms, what are our cues? That our anxiety has just gotten tipped off? Where does that connect to importance of the situation? So asking ourselves in that moment how important is this? Is the hill I wanna die on? Is there an alternative here that, before I get into a confrontation about it, that I can say, oh okay, pause, you're having a reaction to this, what should I, what can I do to? Again, it's kind of back to the how right, the what is the feelings, the emotional response, the how is what do I do, what can I do in response to it? And so, looking for the point, areas of flexibility, looking for opportunities to give autonomy and have them collaborate and participate in how you're gonna go about this thing is really helpful. And being the calm that we need to be to reflect, calm back. They need to see. Kids with anxiety are like absolute super detectives about parents with anxiety.

Speaker 2: 17:48

They know exactly when your anxiety is in the room and they will do everything to avoid it because they're working hard enough at managing their own. It's too confusing and complicated for them to have to manage yours too, so a lot of times we really have to be willing and able to learn how to do that and see our role in doing so.

Speaker 1: 18:12

I also have, and I absolutely agree with you that we need to do our own work in order to be able to be present for our children. And a lot of times I've heard parents talk about sort of just being anxious around parenting right, like in terms of am I doing the right thing? Am I doing what's needed at this particular age? Am I being available a certain way for my kids? And especially around teen years, it becomes harder, right, because teenagers are exploring developmentally, they are kind of wanting to be on their own and it's really hard for parents to recognize that and that kind of creates, I would say, anxiety around sort of am I doing the right thing? In your view, as a parent coach, what are some of the things that you talk about in kind of helping parents really gain perhaps like a little bit of confidence, right, but I do think it kind of shakes you the challenges of parenting a teenager.

Speaker 2: 19:43

Right, yeah, I mean, I think one of the biggest challenges is maintaining perspective.

Speaker 2: 19:49

It's rare that the thing that is happening in that moment, the decision that's needing to be made, the thing that your teen wants to be able to do, is going to be the life-defining thing. And so having perspective over the long haul that, like Ken Ginsburg talks about he's a pediatrician from Penn and he's written some parenting books and does a lot of talking about raising teens and he talks about raising a 35-year-old that we're really wanting to know that when they're at that stage of their life, that they have the fundamental tools and knowledge and support and relationships and love to be a functioning adult. So I think some of the ways we get there is recognizing these hard moments, giving ourselves a lot of grace because at any given time we're doing the best that we can in the moment and I think a big piece of it is trying to with teens in particular is creating some space. And what does healthy space look like?

Speaker 2: 21:08

Teens need space, so if they're fighting you for it, that's your indicator that they're not getting enough of it, and also when there is space, a lot of times it allows for us to work on our own anxiety and our own feelings and be able to take the minute to breathe or to gather our thoughts. One of the phrases that I coach around is know for now, like if you have a demanding need by a teenager like most of their needs are that they need to know right in that minute, and you can simply say look, I see that this is important to you. I hear that you're looking for an answer right now or soon. If I have to give you that answer right now, the answer is no, and if you can give me a little bit of time to come home from work or to think about it, or to talk to dad, or to talk to the other parents of the kids, or whatever it is, then I can come back to you with an answer that will more likely be what you want, but no guarantees. It may still be no, but you're gonna have an understanding of why, at least if that's the case. So know for now is a great way to get that space.

Speaker 2: 22:28

Sometimes feel like we need Another one is circling back right, like we don't have to nail every moment.

Speaker 2: 22:37

We're gonna be caught off guard a lot of the time when they're coming to us, and it may be that they're coming to us for advice, or maybe they're coming to us with a need or something that we're feeling conflicted about in terms of socializing or behaviors that we're seeing or concerns, or we're looking at the big picture and kind of feeling like, oh, I'm not comfortable with where this is going, or I feel like I want to share or inform or educate, whatever that is, and so being able to circle back to them is a really great way to create space, too, that you can let them have the last word, you can let them, you can hear them out, which is so important and then you can say you know you can have your response, but if later you're thinking about it and you know you have more clarity about how you feel or you might have a different answer to something that they need it, you can always circle back, even with an apology, right, like if the moment goes south or things blow up or our anxieties clash like, you know, two tornadoes, then we can always go back and say, look, I don't really like the way that that went.

Speaker 2: 23:53

This isn't how I want us to be communicating. I really do understand that this is important to you and I want to hear you out and I'm really hoping you can hear me out on this and sometimes they surprise you then because they in that moment, they feel connected, they feel heard. You might get more insight into how they're thinking and why they're making the decisions that they're making, and if there's reasonability there even if we don't always agree I think they earn the right to experiment and explore their world in that way.

Speaker 2: 24:30

And another one is weight, the acronym weight W-A-I-T. Which is why am I talking? Because sometimes we just talk and they are definitely not listening, because their attention spans are very short.

Speaker 1: 24:44

So true.

Speaker 2: 24:47

And so that's a good reminder and also a space creator too. When I can hold my tongue, I know I can circle back, I know I have ultimate decision-making power here, but do I need to employ power and control, or can I try to stick with connection and communication and mutual respect and allowing them to do what teens do, which is experiment, which kind of leads to, I think, another real anxiety creator for both teens and parents, which is our fear of failure?

Speaker 1: 25:23

Right.

Speaker 2: 25:24

And we want to be successful and we want our kids to be successful in whatever ways. We individually measure that, and it's really painful to watch your kids fail, fall, stumble, but what they're doing is learning, and so if we prevent them from learning, we're expecting them to have us be their only teachers, and that doesn't really work with the organic development of teens. It doesn't work with parenting too. It's too much responsibility.

Speaker 1: 26:01

We need to let them make some decisions so we don't have to make all of that, yeah, oh, wow, wow, I love this is such practical advice and such practical, doable ways of implementing certain. Yeah, I mean because a lot of times we get caught up between what am I doing, how am I doing this and am I doing the right thing? I mean, I am constantly struggling with that. So I love the weight acronym why am I talking? And again, it makes me laugh because a lot of times I've been guilty of just talking and kids are looking at their phones and going, oh okay, this is way too much, I've lost them. Yeah, so I kind of want to pull in another piece that I think you've kind of addressed in your five points, which is boundaries. Right, so kind of circling back, waiting, creating space. I mean, part of it is also creating those boundaries for ourselves and for our kids and teens. Do you have any thoughts on sort of how, as parents, right with our parenting, there can be certain boundaries that we can implement?

Speaker 2: 27:38

I mean, I think the boundaries are so important? I think creating space is a lot about boundaries boundaries for the kids and boundaries for ourselves. I think that you know there's always a good reason to push the pause button. If there's fighting and arguing, that even can be a boundary violation. Right, it's not productive, it's not respectful. Usually it's gotten to a point where nobody's going to, there's not an end, there's not a resolution that's going to happen in that moment.

Speaker 2: 28:21

So kind of again that taking a break and going to your corners to calm, you're really resetting, you're calming. You know let's reset. This isn't how I want us to be talking. You know we're more inclined to start the you and the blaming in those moments. You shouldn't talk to me like that. You shouldn't. Why are you? You know you, but we're also in that with them. So you know, I think we have to, as parents and adults, sort of catch ourselves first, because they're going to follow our lead most of the time if we're doing that. I think boundaries come up a lot around technology to the kids use their phone for so many private communications that it becomes an issue around privacy versus the phone.

Speaker 2: 29:08

And you know if the phone is. You know is the phone is not private. We understand that as adults, but there is our private things that happen on the phone, so it gets pretty complicated. You know, younger it's easier with the younger kids to start sooner with with setting boundaries on the phone and using language so that they understand the differences between privacy and public and public, private and public behavior or communications. I think doing things like you know, spot checks, like snap chats, comes to mind as one of the hard, hard apps to monitor because of the way the information goes away.

Speaker 2: 29:52

But I think also you can, you know, do spot checks like okay, you know it's time to sit down with me for five minutes, let's. I want you to open your snaps in front of me. You get a chance to see what's happening. You know, younger kids are going to be more motivated to have the app, they're more inclined to go along with that, and it's the earlier use that informs the later use a lot of the time.

Speaker 2: 30:16

So I think setting those, those boundaries early around technology and and the rules and the, the conversation and the language you want to use, is really useful. It gets a little trickier as they get older. We're also trying to raise them to be responsible users of technology.

Speaker 2: 30:33

So with that does come more privilege and more space and privacy. So then sometimes we're left more talking about the issues with them, and so you know, you know it is, I think, a good idea to leave as much accessibility as possible with the technology. You know, one rule that we used was if I pick up your device and I can't get in it, you lose it. So I always knew passwords of the devices and and they learned that I wasn't interested in reading their word for word exchanges with their friends and things like that that was really the point, but also for my own anxiety about the technology use.

Speaker 2: 31:19

I needed to have some, you know, connection we needed to have a connection about it needed to be able to communicate.

Speaker 2: 31:27

There's so many ways that boundaries you know are important. I think in our, in our emotional needs are important too. So if your child is saying to you or if you are feeling yourself like you need a time out or space or need to go home or regroup, that's an important boundary you know you don't want to follow your kids to their rooms when they're saying I need to regroup, because that's about them doing their own self regulation and self soothing and resuming.

Speaker 2: 31:57

They're calm. And the same way we don't want them chasing us down for answers when we need our space and we need our balance.

Speaker 1: 32:05

Yeah, no, that's yeah, yeah, absolutely, and that's again really very practical advice to have for parents. I'm also wondering, with boundaries and some of the things that you've mentioned in terms of maintaining perspective. Circling back, how do we work with our teens who have anxiety, because a lot of times now we are navigating it differently, also trying to sort of manage our own anxieties as well as their anxiety. Any thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 32:49

Well, you know, for teens, I try to help them sort of it's a parallel process like learning at their own triggers or experiences, recognizing when they're in an anxious state, what are the cues to that, and starting to identify what works for them. You know, is that what? Is that a time that they need a distraction? Is it a time that they need to challenge themselves to, to conquer something or try something new? You know, so being able to coach them through, like, how about we use this first experience of working or doing this thing or going to this event as our information for how you feel?

Speaker 2: 33:33

You know, and when you've experienced it, then you can come back and we can talk about it, and maybe it's not your thing, but at least you'll know because you tried, you know, or so I think encouraging them, recognizing, validating it, just because it doesn't feel like it's something that they should be worried about Doesn't mean they're not worried about about something. And we usually only know the tip of the iceberg once they are teens. So whatever they're giving us, there's a whole bigger piece under the surface that's happening, whether that's in their social world, which is so complicated and probably a podcast in itself, but it's. You know, there's so much happening for them and they really are the experts on their own lives at that time in their life. And so our job is to really try to listen and bear witness and to teach them skills, recognize when they, when they have a skill deficit area, if your, if your child really does struggle with self regulation or staying calm or continuously, the size of the problem doesn't feel like it's matching the size of the reaction to whatever's happening.

Speaker 2: 34:54

You know, sometimes if there's a lot of isolation or withdrawal or avoidance of things, changes in in behavior there were out all the time and all of a sudden they're home a lot or they're leaving activities they love music or sport, or or whatever it might be. Those are pretty good indicators that something's going on, that they're that's really impacting their daily life, and so I think then it's you know time for a more direct conversation. Like, you may not be able to tell me what all that's going on, but I'm seeing a lot of changes and I'm concerned for you, and maybe this is a good time for you to talk to somebody. Or could we have a different kind of conversation about what's happening at school? You know, and we can only know what we know. You know, and then our job is to respond to what we see, you know, and so I think those are times where it might be at a level of needing.

Speaker 1: 35:56

Maybe some intervention or some work.

Speaker 1: 35:59

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree with that. It's really kind of trying to figure out what's best for your child, and especially when it comes to anxiety, there is so much background that is happening that we are, we as parents are not aware of. And your point of social life, I mean, yeah it's, it's insane how complicated their social lives are, and I always wonder whether mine was I'm sure it was as a teenager, but it's always as parents, we kind of forget what our own teen years looked like, and so a lot of my parenting also comes from the fact that kind of I've forgotten how it was like as a teenager. So let me just stop, like you know, stop think, pause and not judge a lot of times their behavior.

Speaker 2: 37:01

Because they'll tell you. Yeah, if you listen, they will tell you what their social lives are like you know, there is a different intensity, you know, in sort of pre-technology, adolescent and post.

Speaker 2: 37:18

I think that it's certainly not all bad, you know, I don't feel that way. But I feel that you know some of the intensity and the information and the real-time experiences of things like being left out or not included, or the impulsivity in the way people, the teens, kind of fire information at each other, you know, without really stopping and thinking and seeing the impact of their words. You know, I think that those things build the intensity in the experience. So we might have felt left out, maybe when we were adolescents.

Speaker 2: 37:58

You know, maybe we find out on a Monday at school that we weren't included or didn't get invited to a party, but by Monday afternoon something else is happening. That's over and it's done. Now it's like you're living through the whole night of not being included in real-time you know, and so, just as one of a thousand examples of where the changes are, you know, affecting anxiety and you know I think again.

Speaker 2: 38:25

It does bring back to the differential between stress and anxiety too, because one of the other real important factors around anxiety is that, you know, there is a biological basis for anxiety. There is a genetic predisposition to anxiety. So not all anxious kids have diagnosable anxiety, you know, and so when they do, that's an important thing for us as parents to acknowledge. You know, even if we are aware of our own anxiety and we've done our own work and we're knowledgeable about it, when we see it in our kids, we're probably not going to be able to make it go away. You know, we're probably only at best going to be able to work with it and help them understand that part of themselves, understand how to get in front of it whenever possible, but also stop when it enters the room and, you know, work with it when it's there and try to teach our kids that they can have an effect on it.

Speaker 2: 39:29

That, I think, is the most empowering thing we can do as parents, as clinicians, with kids who are really aware of their anxiety or who are experiencing generalized anxiety or having panic attacks or have even phobias or other things, is to really teach them, you know, the cognitive behavioral skills or the perspective taking or the ways that they can connect to to have an effect on how they're feeling. You know and a lot of great ways to do that for kids. There's a lot of language that can be used very creatively and in fun ways too to kind of externalize those feelings of anxiety and be able to start to recognize when it shows up and how to minimize it whenever possible.

Speaker 1: 40:22

Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about the genetic component, the biological component, when it comes to anxiety, and a lot of times as parents, we blame ourselves, you know, because we see that in our kids and kind of that creates more anxiety.

Speaker 2: 40:47

Yeah, we want what's best for them Right. We know what it has felt like to live with anxiety ourselves and that's awfully very often very uncomfortable and challenging and it has maybe kept us from things we wanted, or it's created, you know, shame or embarrassment, or you know disappointment in ourselves and those are really hard, strong feelings to work with and I try to reframe some of that around.

Speaker 2: 41:21

you know we're just doing the best that we can with what we have, you know, and these kids are resilient and we can pass down what we've learned. You know, we have to respect their age. Just because we know more doesn't mean we can teach our seven-year-olds everything about anxiety and expect them not to, you know, have it.

Speaker 1: 41:42

But if we can meet them where they're at, if we can keep doing our work around it, we can, you know, really give them a different experience than we had before we had all the information we have now Such wise advice and words, because as parents we are constantly struggling and just sort of accepting that it is a struggle for us because we are human beings and at the same time trying to raise responsible adults who at the moment are teens and driving us insane, is important. Any last sort of thoughts around sort of parenting, any resources that you can sort of help us with.

Speaker 2: 42:38

There's so much information. I think part of the struggle is that there's too much information, absolutely so. I usually, in response to resources, I tell people just find a couple and stick with them. You know, find what speaks to you and what works for you. So I mean Child Mind Institute, understoodorg worry wise kids those are some good ones for raising kids. There's raising kids today, I think, is what Ken Ginsburg's website and social media presence is. They have great tips. I think one of the fun things about social media is that when you find people that you resonate with then you know and they send and they put out all the posts.

Speaker 2: 43:25

You know that they're just sort of reminders or little tidbits that you know it's almost like a daily affirmation or a daily tip. You know that you can pick up. Those can be helpful reminders, I think too. For that we're doing a good job, we're always doing the best we can. In any moment we're mistake making people, and that's okay. And the more comfortable we can be with that, the more our kids will learn that that's okay too, you know, and and that's really, I think, where so much of the anxiety lies- you know, that, that I'm that.

Speaker 2: 44:01

Am I good enough? Am I am I going to succeed, you know? Am I going to meet expectations? So you know, monitoring those expectations and the messages we put out is important too. You know if we're going to hold them in our family, because that's what our family the family values that we're trying with, then how do we help support them in that too, because there has to be a match there in terms of what we expect, how we support them with that.

Speaker 1: 44:32

Thank you so much for the practical advice and really helping sort of our listeners understand the process in a way that it's okay to be who you are and you're doing the best that you can. So thank you so much for talking to me again Pleasure, yeah, of course anytime.