Practical Leadership with Guest William McCrae - How to profit from understanding industry maturity and Crafting your ideal life.

Get ready to learn from a true expert in this episode of Practical Leadership! William McCrae joins us to discuss the importance of starting with the end in mind to get timing right. Discover how being intentional about your goals can help you be in the right place at the right time for success. William shares his insights on analyzing industries before entering them, leading to multiple successful exits.

But that's not all! William also talks about crafting a vision for your life and making it a reality. Learn how to be intentional with your time and schedule to maximize productivity and create a rewarding week ahead. You won't want to miss this inspiring episode filled with practical tips for leadership success!

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to the Practical Leadership Podcast where leaders share their tools and practical advice to make you a better leader today. My name is Max Kovski. I'll be your host, and today our guest is a true leader in every sense of the word with a distinguished courier in the Navy, a proven track record of public service. A city official in the city of Kerrville and dedication to the serving the community through organization like Laas Club, where he served as President and Governor Elect. He has also achieved great success in the business world, having started and sold multiple companies in Most recently, he's come out of retirement to lead physicians here in network to make a high quality service accessible to more people. Willie McCray is an. People focused leader who truly cares about making a difference. It's my pleasure to welcome him to the show. William, thanks so much for joining us today. well, thank you for inviting me to share some of my thoughts and experiences surrounding leadership. Thank you, thank you, thank you for that. You know, there's, you, you've got such a a varied career. You've always you know, from all the stories that, that I've heard and all the conversations that we've had, you know, the thing that is, that is, that is just consistently shows up is that you are, you are leading the charge, leading the charge, leading the charge, making change, bringing progress, delivering transformation. So you know, it's, it's great to have you ber, but before I get, I get ahead and we really get into the thick of things. What's something good that's been happening in your world over the last few weeks or months? Well, yeah. I would say the most exciting thing has been the birth of my fifth grandchild. So that always brings joy to everybody in the family and. It's a exciting time and we are busy not only professionally, but personally with the arrival of Molly Francis. The other thing that's been exciting in the last few months is my wife and I kind of took the next stage, or turned the page, if you will, in our own personal lives and are starting to commute between two residences. And one of my lifelong dreams was to be able to live at a beach on a more permanent basis. So we've juggled that into the mix as well. And so life is exciting and fun, right? That, that, that is excellent. And you know, it's, it's interesting because you could have really easily said, you know, the growth of the business, the evolution of the business, the, the you know, the milestones that, that are, that are being achieved in the progress. But, you know, you went to what matters most to you, and it's, and it's family and it's, and it's people. So thank you very much for that. Absolutely. I, so, so, we'll, I was just, you know, I set my compass you know, I balance or align professional endeavors, pursuits with personal desires and ambitions as well as financials. So I always lead first. With personal and make sure that what those personal desires are that we're pursuing, that I've aligned my professional ambitions and my financial, you know, ambitions as well to what those personal pursuits are. And they've changed over the years. You know, I have been retired. I've taken off, you know, up to a year or twice during my career to take a break and reset and enjoy life. You know, I've traveled abroad. I went to South America for three months in Unplugged. So, you know, those are all personal things that I wanted to experience and I've aligned my career around being able to achieve those personal. I've, I've made a note cause I, cuz I really want to dive into that in, in just a little bit. I think it's super interesting for the different leaders listening to the podcast this whole idea of taking some time off and then coming back refreshed, renewed with new ideas. And I've always heard really positive outcomes from that. But before, before we get into that one so when did you first learn about leadership or the concept of leadership? Well jokingly, you know, I could say it could have been the scouts, you know, boy scouts where you are exposed to leadership and acquiring your merit badges, et cetera, and moving up in rank. McDonald's was my first job and that was back in the seventies when McDonald's was really promoting working as a team for. In building skill sets in the workplace. But you know, in reality, you know, the Navy is where I was truly exposed to meaningful leadership skills where there was a leader, there was a mission set and, you know, we had to execute on that mission, you know, regardless of what it was, whether it's peace, time, wartime, you know, there's always missions to be accomplished within the military. And, and, and I idolized the leaders, you know, the, the people that I looked up to were, I was in the Navy, so you know, it was the chiefs, the commanders, lieutenant commanders, you know, that's who I idolized. You know, I didn't idolize the guys at my rank. I was idolizing those leaders in the squad. And, you know, you've talked to me a little bit about kind of where you really learned leadership. So, you know, first you first were exposed in scouts, McDonald's Navy, but then you said, Hey, if, if there's one big place where I've learned most about my leadership, it was, it was when definitely public service. As well as working within the nonprofit community on boards you know, you're working on boards and committees and those who really take the time to learn the issues and understand what the community wants as a whole, you know, the citizens of those communities. Then you're able to start articulating a vision for the community. And, you know, from a support standpoint, it's all at the ballot box. So, you know, affirmation that you're a good leader is getting elected or reelected. And I was able to do that. And you know, there's a lot of gratification there. And you know, for me, you know, definitely seeing politics today, that's not the experience that I had. It was very fulfilling. And then on the nonprofit side, to be able to give back to the community. And, and in fact I did it at an age where between public service and nonprofit work, board work, I sacrificed income at that time of my life. You know, my kids were young and I just had a calling that I wanted to be involved in. And I was a small business owner, you know, at the time. And I structured my business to where, you know, I could work on it, not in it, and be involved in the other things going on in the community. Unbeknownst to me at the time, I was probably rapidly developing skillsets that were gonna allow me to more than make up for those early years of income sacrifice, you know, so I was growing and didn't know it at the time. That's, that's such a powerful concept, right? For, for some of our, our younger folks listening in. I, you know, I I really do believe that your first few years maybe for you was even longer, William. It you, it's not just about how much money you can make, it's about how much you can learn what relationships you can build, what, who you could be exposed to, because that will end up taking you much further than just trying to make the big bucks early on in your career. And I think you're, you're a great example of that, William. I remember, I remember pieces of a story and it had something to do where you were doing such a great job. You got some national recognition. And I'd love to hear a little bit about that story cuz I, I have, I, I, I just remember some pieces, but then I'm gonna ask how, how did you make that happen? So I'd love to hear that. Well national recognition is, you know, There's two two times in career in two different industries. So you and I have, you know, spent time together. So I'm not sure whether it was related to my work within the hearing healthcare field or if it was my work in retail in my early years when I was basically rental and sales of furniture appliances and televisions. And that was the career that I had coming out of the military. And it was a great environment. It was a, a franchise with a franchise owner who really gave young guys like me at the time, a lot of latitude and a lot of freedom to excel. You know, I, I think he just really knew how to read people, and he could tell who had drive in determination. And, you know, number driven ac you know, accountability. You couldn't give us enough accountability. You know, we thrived on that. And, you know, within a year I had won some national awards in market development and went on and had a eight year career with them. They they, they, I earned equity in part of the franchise, the area that Iran was, which was in Washington, DC and Maryland. So it was a very entrepreneurial environment that I worked in and, you know, to, to be able to go learn business at the level that I did with other people's money is a privilege. And so, you know, I got to hone in on all the skill sets and hone in on all the mistakes that can be made at the same time. I, I think that, so, so that's another story that I didn't know about, but I think there was also a story in your public service time. But you, you know, getting recognition and acknowledgement is, is nothing, is, is nothing new to you or like that's been happening throughout your career. So I guess my question is, what's the mindset or what's the, the philosophy that you set yourself up to that just enables for that to happen, right? Because you're, you're you know, you're out there doing your thing and the next thing you know, people are wanting to follow you. They, they wanna learn from you, they wanna do what you do. What, what, what is it about it? Well, you know, for me, you know, if somebody wanted to name the type of leader that I am, I, I hope that I can fit in that category of being a servant leader to where those that surround themselves around me. You know, that's an honor and a privilege that people are trusting you, you know, with their careers, their livelihood and that they're gonna share in your vision. In my case, you know, being the owner of the business and leader, cuz you know, many of us own businesses, but we may not be the primary driver or leader of that business if we're in more of a investment position with the company. But you know, it's truly an honor to have people trust you day in and day out with their careers and their opportunity. So I, you know, I'm there to serve them and be a good steward and not the other way around. They're not there to serve. How, how, where, where, where did you learn this? Like, how did you get that mindset? Where did you get it from, you think? Well, you know, I think some of it, you know, you know, it was probably how you're raised, you know, the values that your parents bestow upon you the influences that you have through life. And then, you know, from a more academic standpoint, you know, I spent a lifetime of continual learning. You know, reading committing to being on these boards. You know, we haven't even gotten into trade associations, lobbying, you know, all those things that I've been involved in over my career, both as an investor and as a, you know, leader in the companies. The trade associations that I most recently represented, whatever industry I've been involved in. My role, you know, generally was to be very active in the association because there's a lot of information and obviously you want to steer that industry in the best direction or be a part of, steering it in the right direction, you know, into the future. And at one time I was president of two trade associations, and this is back in like 2010 to 2013. And I the executive director for one of the trade associations, outstanding job nationally recognized as Texas being one of the top trade association's chapters in the country. So I recruit him into the other industry. Cause I had another business that I owned and was serving on that board as president as well. So we brought in the same executive director. We actually won both trade associations, same year, national Trade Associations. So we went to DC to get the award for one of'em, and we went to Las Vegas and got the award for the other one. And so, so, oh, and you know, the trade associations to me are very important. One of the businesses that I divested out of was because of the relationships that I had made in the trade association, I was on the national board with the retail business appliance furniture rental. And all the public companies are represented on the national boards. And I remember when I made the decision because I wanted to go to South America for three months, and I thought, you know, I think this is my time to exit. So I laid out a plan for a year to sell the business, free myself up, go have some fun, decide what the next venture would be. And I remember going into the meeting in Wichita Kansas, and I've got two publicly traded companies, one on the right, one on the left. And I just looked over and I said, fellas, I'm gonna sell my business if you're interested. And they know you are running a good business, or at least from afar, you know, based on your conduct as a board member, your contribution, your integrity, et cetera. And, you know, it happened very quickly. You know, they the due diligence was halfway done. And being interested in acquiring the business cuz you, you, you've been a leader in the industry. Great, great example of, of businesses doing business not with other businesses, but people doing business with people, right. And what, what what is very consistent, is very active, very active, very engaged, caring, interested, curious and, and wanting to make changes for good and, and wanting to have an, an impact and influence and as you called it, a steering organizations in the right direction. So there's, there's a lot of steering in, in your resume, right, of steering all sorts of different organizations in the right direction. Let, let's talk a little bit about the, the idea of taking a break and taking some months off or years off and then coming back. So tell us a little bit about how, like, how do you decide that, you know what, it's time for me to take some time off. How do you plan your time off? And then what makes you want to come back? Well the first big break I think was at 38, 39, and I had sold a business. I still had kids that had to go to college and, you know, lots of expenses still yet to come. So I wasn't in a position to retire, but I was certainly comfortable enough to be able to take off time. So I did, we relocated, kind of reset the family based on kids activities, et cetera. And I took a year off and, you know, dove into lots of reading both business and, you know, just outside of work related and spent a lot of time working out and you know, just really. Re, you know getting myself mentally and physically healthy and, and then deciding what I was gonna do next, which turned out to be two endeavors. One was a startup that had regional, maybe national plans, growth plans. And then the other was to reenter a business that I had been in before with a unique opportunity on a development side. So, you know, I came back guns a blazing and filled up my day really quick. And you know, all the endeavors that I've gone into that align to things that I wanted to experience personally had to. You know, the, the, if it was a big thing I wanted to do, then it had to have the financial support to do that. And then what is it I'm gonna do professionally to tie it all together? So, you know, obviously over time as we grow and learn more, and, you know, there's people who have it. Either they, they've got it intuitively, innately, or just academically, you know, they got the best education. They're just smart. The breaks come early and, you know, they achieve things that, you know, it in their thirties that maybe I didn't achieve till in my fifties. But, you know, we all have the ability to, you know, achieve those dreams as long as we pursue'em and do the things that are needed to get there. So whenever I go into a business or a venture, I'm definitely an exit strategy, you know? Person. I've never gone into a business that I didn't know how I was gonna exit out of it. I understood who the buyers were, the valuations, I understood the roadmap from A to B, whether it was three years, five years, or 10 years. Those lines may have not been straight from A to B. They could have got crooked and kind of wiggly at times, but I always knew what A to B was, you know, what that journey would be and what the rewards would be. So then I could just focus on the vision and building a team and leading that team with a passion for what we were doing. And I didn't have to worry about, you know, what was at the end of all this. I already knew what that was. So let me, let me, so it's, it's fascinating, right? Because there's all these different stages of, of your life. Your development. And, and I think there's all these things that I'm curious about, and I'm sure some of our audience is, is very curious about. So I just wanna talk a little bit more about that time off. So when, when, and then we'll talk a little bit about kind of going into the business with the end in mind. So you're, you're taking your time off and you are, you, you are like real aligning, reimagining, like your future, getting back into business, or do opportunities fall on your lap? Are you looking for some opportunities? Like what's happening during that time? Well, a, I'm, I'm deciding at a personal level what it is that I want to accomplish in life. And, and I, and I'm not just meaning monetarily, that's certainly a piece of it, but y you know, is it public office, nonprofit? Is it I want to What colleges, you know, I want my kids to go to, do I want to coach their teams? You know, how, how do I wanna spend, you know, my time? And, and, and once I kind of have that figured out, at least for the near future, you know, three to five years, then I can start looking at the professional opportunities that interest me in Align. And then as I begin to network and research wh what those opportunities are what's the financial y you know realities or of those endeavors, you know, what's my payday, so to speak. And, you know, I, I've never been a payday person or a paycheck person, I should say. I would say half my career, I probably haven't gotten checks on the 15th and 30th. But I've had eight or nine pretty big payday, so, you know, I, I'm not a paycheck person, I'm a payday person. Yeah. That payday's gonna come. So, so, so we're definitely gonna talk about that here in a, in a second. So one, one thing that I know about you, and you've mentioned it throughout this conversation, is that you're, you're, you're very intentionally designing your life, right? So it doesn't happen by accident, it happens by design. You're very intentional about what you want to create, where you want to be, what you want to do, how you want things to be. How, how, like where did you get that idea from? And then how do you put it together? What are some big ideas or even you know, books or concepts that you use to help you figure that? Well, it's an influence of a lot of writing, you know, a lot of books mm-hmm. that I've read. But y you know, I do think that it's part of my wiring, if you will. Y you know, it's, it's how I think. And, and, and it takes discipline and, you know, there's times when you go through a day and the next day you look back and you go, wow, I didn't really get a lot done yesterday. You know, and, and you reset. So, you know, it's, you know, it's kind of like falling off the wagon and you know, you, you just get back on and you get refocused and you push ahead and you end up having lots of good days and not too many bad days. And, you know, that life's a journey. And we have tomorrow is not gonna be exactly how we have it visualized, but certainly the more time you spend visualizing and preparing for tomorrow, the more likely it'll come out the way you think it should. So it's, it's such a, like a second nature thing to you, right? To think about planning, to think about understanding the future. But the reality is, is that there's a lot of people out there that are operating, you know, an autopilot and just kind of going through life and in your approach as always, let me design it. Let me be intentional, let me work. To make it happen as well. And, and, and you haven't done, only done it once. You've, you've been able to do it multiple times. So there's, there's, there's also like some sort of system there, right? There's a method to the madness of making that happen and, and, and you know, kind of one of those levels of competence for you that to you it's just obvious to say, what do I want? What do I want for my family? What do I wanna be doing? What do I not want to be doing? And, and then kind of being able to paint that, that picture you know, we've talked about the idea of mind movies and being able to kind of have this movie in your mind. So then you can kind of work to towards, towards making it happen, right? And, and my work's all been in, you know, three or four, you know, industries. You know, I stay with what I know, but within those industries, There's different channels different opportunities that, you know, some are very similar and some are very dissimilar, but, you know, I don't go out and find new things to do. You know, there's other ways to invest in those things. So, as far as day-to-day vision leadership, I stay in my wheelhouse, if you will. Yeah. So staying, staying, staying close to your core competencies mm-hmm. And, and your core knowledge, right? The, the, these industries that you know and I love your approach of saying, look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stick with what I know best and what I do best. And if there's something out there that's exciting, I could invest, I could, I could figure out ways of putting money in that, but I don't have to be myself in it because, you know, my, my time is better suited in, in kind of, you know, what I've been preparing for my whole life. Right. The skills, knowledge relationships that you've been building and accumulating over years. Yeah. And, and, and I'm fortunate that I truly loved the industries that I'm in. You, you know, the retail, the furniture and appliance electronic business for the age that I was in, it was very exciting. And, you know, but I stayed invested, you know, once I came out of the management side of it and moved into other industry, I knew it operationally so well that I was very comfortable continuing to invest in it. So I went out and found leadership to run, you know, a company that I would back, you know, financially and, and I think I'm on my ninth. Business. And, and most of'em, you know, these are smaller, you know, mid-size companies. The, the most recent ones not, and that's a story in itself, but of those nine, I think five were pure concept, creating the brand mm-hmm. With the intent of entering into a market space to grow a business and then sell it to a competitor. So cr creation and, and invention. Yeah. I, I, I'm leaving some of the good stuff for a little bit later. Yeah. There's, I, I think that our audience could really benefit from, from, I guess, You know, building back out of, out of, out of devastation. And it's the story about your stores that were, you know, flooded and pretty much put, you put, you know, they were underwater and put you financially underwater. And how you were able to overcome all that. Because right now, the story for, for those that don't know you, everything looks peachy, but everybody goes through struggles and challenges. And I think that there's so much to learn from, from that story because you had to lead yourself and, and lead others through it. Can you tell us a little bit about that, you know, like Yeah. Unfortunate situation and how you were able to overcome it? Yeah. Unfortunately, you know w I was in New Orleans in Gulfport, Mississippi with a number of stores that I had invested in and hired the leadership and created the brand. And really, you know, exciting endeavor. And we started that business in 2002, 2003. We were doing 500,$600,000 a month. Life was starting to look really good in terms of being able to start having some of the distributions, if you will, from that investment. It, it was just great. And my wife and I were starting to think about a second home I'm putting in a pool and I remember my partner out there that was running it calling me and he says, you've been watching the news. And I said, well, Yeah, what's up? He said, well, this hurricane Katrina, this is the real deal. And I'm like, yeah, okay, tell me more. And he starts telling me they're boarding up windows, they're moving all the delivery trucks up into Northeast Louisiana, and he's going through it all. And, you know, it was unsettling. And I wasn't sure what it meant, but right away I started, you know, processing numbers and et cetera, thinking about, Hmm, you know, how, what's this gonna be? And, and of course, we all know the Katrina story. It hit it wiped us out. You know, most of our inventory were out in homes, accounts receivable, millions and millions of dollars. We owed still, you know, banks money floor planning, the equipment and stuff. So we were upside down. You know, we owed a million, million and a half and had no TVs, had no furniture, no appliances, stores were gone. There were no, no customer base to go back and rebuild. And I I, I had two thoughts that probably happened over a week. One was, was this a message for those of you who have faith in your life? You know, was this a message about not really understanding the meaning of life and putting too much emphasis on success financial success, et cetera. And then there was, what are we gonna do with all those people that work for us? So we talked to the lenders and. They saw the business was very successful and they upped our credit line. So we were able to relocate everybody into Texas primarily Houston and Austin, and we started over and it probably took four or five years to actually generate the profits from all those new locations we open to defray that debt that carried over from it. So, you know, it was a humbling experience to go through and but I think that from a leadership standpoint, you know, I think that I grew through that period. I remember contacting the National Trade Association. And, you know, we didn't know what to do. The other dealers in New Orleans, you know, weren't sure. And I called the National Trade Association Executive Director and the attorney, and I said, well, you know, there's hurricanes in Florida all the time. You know, they know how to deal with this. We need to get on a call. We need to start having calls every morning, nine o'clock and have them start sharing information so we know how to navigate through this work through the insurance companies, you know, all the things that go on, how to deal with disaster relief loans and and, and we work through it. And so that was one of those things that if you're in business long enough, you're, you're probably gonna experience some events that'll test your will in your pers you know, your perseverance. And that's just part of getting there. You know, if you don't have that, then, you know, there's a lot more luck that you'll have than most of us will have that have been in business for 30, 40 years. Yeah. Well, I also don't know if everyone's gonna have a a hurricane hit there, you know, they're, they're stores, so I think it was, it was also a little bit unlucky, right? Yeah. Everybody goes through struggles of different shapes and sizes, but you know, just, just imagine you're, you're, you're flying high and, and, and finding a lot of success in overnight. All that's gone. And not only are you not in, you know, in the positive numbers, all of a sudden you find yourself in the red numbers. Yeah. And, and, and, like, like the best leaders do you, you, you said this isn't happening to you. You said this is happening for you. As, as an opportunity to learn and to grow from it. And then you're focused on people, right? How many, how many people would've just abandoned the people and said, well, you know, we, you all got hit hard and, you know, good luck. But you started by taking care of other people in, in, in you know, I, I think, I think that in, in, in that sense, as you are focused on people and people focus back on you when they give you their loyalty and they give you their engagement and they give you their hard work and effort, and it takes, it takes a mindset, right? It takes a mindset. The other thing that, that is pretty consistent is the, the search for knowledge. Right? The search for knowledge. So not only, you know, from books, but also who knows what I need to know, right? And iden and, and, and being able to ask yourself that question and say somebody knows what I don't know. I don't have to figure it out. I can ask and, and, and You know, that's a big sign of maturity. And, and, and, and being able to put the ego to the side and saying, I don't have to be the smartest person that can figure everything out. Let me see who already knows what I need to know. And, and, and, and build teams, which is another thing that is very consistent, right? You never go at it alone. You're always thinking about who's the team that you need to build to go with you, right? Right. And, and I know it's cliche, but you know, I, I firmly stand by this, you know, statement that I, I'm, I don't have to be the smartest guy in the room, and most of the time I'm not. But I do strive to be the wisest in the room. So information from really smart people will allow you to make good decisions. And that's, you know, how I try to operate my business. And, and last, last thought on this before we move on to the next subject is kind of like, you're working really hard to design your life, to get clear about what you want to do, what you don't wanna do, how you envision success. You're working really hard, making it happen. And then, and then you get dealt a hurricane and then it's like, well, back to the drawing board, right? Yeah. But that, that, that persistence and not losing hope, I guess. I mean just, you know, how, how in, in your mind, I, how big of a break did you take between that happening and you getting back to work and, you know, figuring things out? Well, that, that happened after I took that year off that I talked about earlier at, in my late thirties. When I came back, that was one of the two ventures that I'd gone into. And you know, I had some we'll call'em early payday, you know, in my thirties. So, you know, I did have the good fortune of making the right decisions, obviously, of not having debt. And so, you know my homes have been paid for since, you know, I was in my thirties. And so, you know, living well underneath your means allowed me to maybe focus a little differently on the decisions that I was making in the business, that it was more long-term success and not short-term decisions. Because I was dependent on, you know, high income or, you know, had a hobby that I was trying to support or whatever. You know, my hobby was, you know, already. Supportive, so to speak. So, you know, I truly like I said, you know, it was never about a paycheck for me in my businesses. It stung, it hurt but we worked through it. And that business was the one that ended up selling to one of the public companies. The story I told earlier about being at the table, and I've got two national companies and they were the ones that bought it, one of them. And that was in 2012. So you know, we probably, you know, I can't remember the numbers exactly, but on September, 2005, we were probably 2 million in debt from the hurricane. And in 2012 we had a company that was worth eight or 9 million. So, so sticking, sticking to what, you know, mm-hmm. Having faith that you're gonna be able to get through it and work through it. And in keeping your side sights on the long-term success. And I think there's also a, a, a, a, a powerful gem in what you just said, and I just wanna make sure that it gets outlined because you said you, you put yourself in a position where you could handle a bad thing happening because you didn't immediately raise your, call it, standards of living. Right? Right. So as money was coming in, yes, you were thinking about you know, a pool and maybe some upgrades, but, but you didn't immediately upgrade your lifestyle to where you were sucking cash, meaning that you had the opportunity to, to navigate through it. Right. And in today's world, we see a lot of people that are, you know, spending more than what they have. And then as soon as they have something, they start spending it as it as if it will never run out and Right. And even though that's the hope, you know, there's, there's, there's a lot of wiseness in moderation. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, you know, I'm fortunate that I was able to achieve that discipline and have the resources, you know, to, to do it. But it's allowed me to I think have more work-life balance. You know, I've never had to worry, oh my gosh, I can't be away from work, you know, because of this. You know, I've, I've never had that experience in my life. If, if I wanted to go have fun, then I could go have fun. All right, so now let's talk about payday. Cause it's, it's a whole mindset in itself, right? So, so you're saying, look, I've never worked for a paycheck, but I am working for a payday, very different mindset than a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs and people have out there. You said, I go, I go into a new venture with an ex e exit strategy in mind. And you kind of go in it with, with the end in mind, trying to understand all the elements that would enable a positive exit. So first tell us kind of where you got that idea from and then how, how to actually implement it. I think the first exposure that I got to that aggressive, you know, way of thinking with business was in my mid thirties I, I saw within an industry a transition occur where they were consolidating. Professional practices into one. So, you know, private equity money and, and I didn't understand it at the time I read about it, but you know, to you're personally involved, it's not the same. So my, you know, first real exposure to it was a roll up private private equity group approached me about my private practice and I think they gave me, you know, like a hundred thousand just to have a 90 day option, which is great. My attorney said it's fine, you know, they're gonna buy you for X and at the end of 90 days, if they don't, you got the hundredth thou. So it got me thinking about with some guidance, you know, at the time from my father. And, you know, his advice was if you can have a payday like that at that, you know, at my age at the time, and you know, you can turn around and make the same amount of money tomorrow. Think about the position you're in. Hmm. And, and so that helped me, you know, move forward. I'm gonna, I'm gonna sell the business. And, and, and it ended up not selling. They, you know, what they wanted was 90 days now that I've, you know, have more experience. They were out there trying to put the deals together to get enough of'em to make sense for them. Economy of scales, get enough practices. And it didn't happen on their end. But I got my a hundred thousand dollars, but the light bulb went off. Wow. There's people out there that if I just present the opportunity to them and what I'm building, people are gonna be interested in it because there's a world out there, investment community. That that's what they do, or competitors. So as I look at industry and I'm identifying what's going on around me, what are the deals that are happening within that industry? And that information's at trade association level networking, peer group, et cetera. But, you know, there are people who go into business that are tradesmen and that's what they are as business people that, you know, now they own it, but they're still a tradesman and they're, then there's people who go into business to capitalize on the opportunities of building a business and not just, you know, income wise. So, you know, that was probably kind of the first inkling of, okay, you know, I could like this, you know, I, I can, you know, live on, you know, x and instead of making, you know, 200,000 a year for three years. I can make 2 million in three years. And that's just how I started processing business and endeavors that I've, you know, been in since. And they haven't all ended up being worth as much as I thought. I've exited, you know, seven or eight, whatever it is. I think it's seven. And you know, I've had, you know, definitely a couple home runs, couple triples, couple doubles, and we'll call it a a bunt. But you know, they all made money. And they were all worth my time that I was involved in'em for sure. And you know, it led me to the ability to retire you know, at a younger age, if you will. Or at least have the opportunity to retire. And which I first took a look at, I think at about 50 years old. I had one of my bigger startups sold. And it was enough. Kids were done with college, they were married, cars bought, and it was just me and my wife. And it was a matter of deciding what we wanted in life, you know, how big, how grand. And if it was bigger than X, then I wasn't done. But if we were happy with what we had, then I didn't have to work anymore. And we ended up taking a sabbatical for three months, went to South America, did the wine country, and my wife has roots in Bolivia. Got to go see her family. And we were sitting out on the porch of a bed and breakfast at a winery. And I, we just started talking and I had a napkin. She went inside, got a pen, came back out, and we started drawing on a napkin. Okay. Wouldn't it be neat to have something like this? And we said, well, we'll build the barn first. We'll move everything in, then we'll build the house. We'll put in the vines. I'm gonna go back to school, get a certificate in viticulture. And by the time we were done, I calculated I was gonna have to go back and work at least five to 10 more years, and and uh, increase the assets if you will. And so we came back and that's what I did. I Started identifying where the next real opportunity was. I knew what it had to be in terms of value. Cause I knew what we wanted to do personally. And within three years we were in it all the way. And then probably two years after that is when I retired. So it took me five years to acquire the things, you know, the means to do what that plan was and, you know, so that was kind of what we would call a new chapter in our life. And it was super exciting. And that lasted, you know, maybe three years of you know, I had things, you know, that I was doing, but day to day, you know, I certainly didn't have to check in. I wanted to check in, but it wasn't a requirement. William, what, what would you tell someone that said, Hey, I want to do what you do, not the same industry. Right? But I wanna go in there and get into a business with, with the exit in mind, right? I wanna, I wanna figure out what the opportunities are, and I want to figure out how I can exit like you did. What, what is some advice? What, what are some things that they would need to do? Well, first just, you know, recognize what that activity looks like, you know, the merger, you know, m and a activity within that. Okay. So the, the very last step, what does a very last step look like? Yeah, yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yep. Okay. You, you know, is it there, you know, is that prospect or that potential there, you know, there's some businesses that probably don't trade at good multiples, you know, they're hard to sell, et cetera. So, you know, being an industry that at least, you know, within the foreseeable future, you, you, you know, it's got the prospect of rolling up, consolidating, merging lots of growth potential. And I, I forget which author it is. But when you look at a business from for me, a new one is it big enough to be excited about, you know, does it have the size to for me to, you know, have a payday? Number two, is it unique? You know, what, what you're gonna do? Are you differentiating yourself into a marketplace that people are gonna be interested in? When I say people, competitors investors, et cetera. And and then the timing, you know, you, you gotta know you're coming into it at the right time. You don't want to be late into an industry that's already consolidated out, you know, consolidated out cuz it's gonna take time for it to, you know, reposition, et cetera. And then you don't wanna be too early where there's no interest. And this applies to both being successful with the business itself as well as exiting it. But, you know, you, you gotta look at it through that lens and then you know, research it, talk to trade associations. You know, get on their websites and suppliers and manufacturers have a lot of information of what's going on in an industry. Reach out to them. If you can't figure out how to get to'em, the trade association, they know who the players are in an industry and and, you know, think big. Eight hours a day is hour eight hours, so you might as well work on the biggest thing you can during those eight hours. I, I really appreciate this conversation because, so, so much of the conversation is about how to grow your business, how to work on it and not in it, and in all the different things that you need to do to scale your business. And I, I really like the, the approach of saying, Hey, wait a minute before we even get into any of that, right? Are we in the right place? Right. Is it the right time? Are we, are we all excited to participate in that? So it's, it's like Jim Collins writes about, right? Like first start with, with, with the idea and then build a, and then build a company and then build the product. Mm-hmm. And, and that's kind of your, your, your approach. Big picture first. Then we can start getting into the actual business of things and then big emphasis on team. Yeah. And, and I think it's important for, you know, those out there that might be viewing this, that, you know, we're not talking about Wall Street private equity here. You know, we're talking about, you know, growing out of being a mom and papa operator and just continuing to develop and learn and grow yourself to the next level. And, and for some that'll be more than others. But it'll always be more, you know, as long as you're committed to doing that. And you know, it's you know, I think that anybody listening who wants to achieve the types of things, you know, that I've been able to, and again, you know, we're, we're not talking about Wall Street here by any means. You know, there's lots and lots of people that have done lots and lots of things more than I have. But I do think that from my background with just really more discipline and a willingness to almost self-teach and be involved in the activities that would build the skill sets. You know, I, I, I don't have an m mba a, but I have m MBA experience from all those things that I was involved in. And I, I, I estimate it's kind of like a, a double or triple doctorate. PhD. Yeah. So, you know, I'm not the guy that's at the, you know, front of the class teaching the mba. I'm, you know, I'm the guy that's already gone and started the business. Yep. So you know, I think that that's important for people, you know, and dreams can change. You know, as I went through stages in life with kids and family buying and selling, starting is, I always made sure, kind of going back to some discipline financially is, you know, I always made sure that I protected the position I was in. You know, I never wanted to fall backwards. And I remember the, my first major mentor influence in business made a comment to me and I, I didn't really know what he meant at the time, but he said, you know, you only want to be a millionaire one time. Hmm. And as I got older, I know what he meant. You don't wanna lose what you've built. And, you know, that was, you know, his advice. The other was I'll either make you a millionaire or I'll teach you how to be one. Well, he, he taught a lot of people how to be one, but he wasn't making us millionaires. He was giving us the pathway to doing it on our own. So so I always made sure that I protected as I came out what I had, not, not in a retirement sense, but just in a sustainable pattern, you know, for a period of time and, and not to get too crazy, if you will. And I was much more driven about you know, it's not what you spend, it's, you know, not what you show, it's what you have. So for me, you know, the scorecard was always about, you know, how much of it can you keep? Creating value, you know, things like that. W William is there, is there a, a, a book, a system, a process, a tool that you love, that you like to go back to, that you use consistently in, in the things that you do that you'd like to share with the audience? Well, you know, I think, you know, in terms of leadership I start my week, Sunday night, usually it's six o'clock, you know, I'm done with my weekend and I start planning out my week. And sometimes it's a busy week, sometimes it might be two days. But you know, the first thing that I'm looking at is you know, what we call a huddle. You know, Monday morning huddle and what information, you know, do I want to communi. To the rank and file, and these would be corporate employees who are not out on the frontline selling. And you know, it's not regional people, it's, it's people that support a lot of us, you know, in being successful and they want to know what's going on too. So, you know, I prepare, you know, it's just a 15, 30 minute huddle. Then you know, executive call the agenda, it's thought out. It's sent out Monday morning. I try not to send email and communicate over the weekend. You know, I think everybody deserves to have their weekend. Me, I'm okay working. But I don't expect them, you know, to make that same commitment. I expect them to be committed, but in a different way. So, you know, I plan out my week and that way when I wake up Monday, I'm not thinking about what I'm gonna do it, it's already planned out. I'm gonna execute. I know what I want to get accomplished for that week. I know what the big meetings are. I know what I have to prepare for strategic. Y you know, today I had a call that was, you know, exit strategy type of conversation. It, you know, pretty early in this company's this company that I've started recently. And you know, just being prepared for that. So, you know, I'm a 6, 6 30, you know, riser and I do my communication and my heavy thinking, you know, before nine. I work out and then I head to the office two days out of, or three days out of the week. And so it's a discipline. And you know, the employees. Know that I'm committed to, you know, not only them, but obviously the company and the company's success. They know that's how decisions are made. It's to make sure that everybody feels secure. Not just one person, not just two people, but everybody has to feel secure. And you know, I, I'm the one that talks about the vision of the company all the time. You know, they have to know what our purpose is and why we come in and do the things that we do and wanna be the best at it. And, you know, I'm fortunate enough to be in healthcare and we're changing people's lives, so, you know, that makes it a lot easier than maybe in some other industries you can be involved. So, William, I know we could, we could spend a few more hours cause there's so many stories and so many stories people could, could learn from. But for today, we're gonna start kinda wrapping, wrapping up the podcast. But I want, I wanna point out a few of the things that really stood out for me from our conversation. So you know, learning about leadership early on I think that if you have children, get them, get them to scouts or get them to something that they can understand the importance of, of, of learning, earning and leading servant leadership as, as a big idea of leadership, right? You're here to help others. You're here to serve others. It's not about you. It's, it's about them learning, continuous learning and, and, and implementation of those learnings. Which, which I know that you do. You don't just keep it at a knowledge level, you keep it at a, well, I read this, let's do this, let's implement this. Let's work on the system. So, so putting it in, in in place Intentional life design. That, that to me is a key, right? So you, you, you are very intentional in your life and you're very intentional in business. You're always thinking about what the end looks like. So in business, you're looking at the, at the exit and in how it's gonna look or how do you want it to look? And when it's, and when it's life, you're looking at, you know, what does your ideal day look like? What does your life look like? What, what activities are you doing? And what are the things you're, you're not doing either and what you're gonna need to be able to accomplish those goals. You know, regarding, regarding the big crisis, the big, the big idea was that you didn't say, ah, why is this happening to me? You said this is happening for me. It has a message. What do I need to learn from this? What do I need to take from this? Which really enabled and empowered you, and you focused on, you focused on people and on rebuilding. And it was this mindset of looking at success as a long-term thing that allowed you to say, well, you know, we might have been derailed, but we haven't been stopped. We're just gonna keep going. Right? There's this, this big idea that's showing up everywhere as well, which is, be active, be engaged. Look, look for the information that you need. Somebody has it. Talk to them. Build a team that can, that can leverage it. You don't have to know it all yourself, but the information is out there and, and by and by being intentional about it. You, you can make the most, the make the most out of it. Right. Then we talked a little bit about associations, right? That, you know, we, you talked about that 3, 4, 5 times. So when thinking about exit planning you're, you're saying, Hey, let, let's, let's look at a business that is big enough to be exciting unique enough and differentiated that, that you know, you'll be protected from competitors and that it's the right time. Right? So meaning that the industry is not too consolidated, but also it's not too early either. And the best way to find that out is pick up the phone and talk to the trade associations. And, and it looks like people are happy to talk to you too, and share their knowledge and provide you with advice and, and, and give you the guidance that you need. So take advantage of that because you're, you're gonna, you're gonna learn the ins and outs and then serve, because you've also said you, you've been president of these organizations, so you're not only taking the knowledge, you're, you're, you're steering and driving and, and, and giving back. So, so it's a combination of you take what you need, but then you give back to it as well. And, and then you, you said one of your, one of your keys to success here is plan your week. Plan your week ahead. We, we, we kind of all heard about some of these ideas. I don't know how many people actually do it, but you're like, I'm planning not only my Monday, but I'm planning the week, and then I get into execution mode and, and I can prioritize and get, and get what matters done and you know, and be disciplined about it. So I know I might have missed something and I'm sure there's something else out there. William is there, is there, is there, is there, is there something else that you'd like to share with the audience that I might have not asked you about, I might have missed in the summary that I, you think is worth, worth sharing? No, I think that was a great wrap to the information that we covered today. You know, the only thing that, you know, kind of ran through my mind and one of the things we're talking about is, you know, leadership to me is being a coach and a teacher for your team. And, and that's what they're, you know, really counting on is, is coaching them to be better and then teaching them, you know, if I go out and gather this information and you know, it's only for me, that's not making the organization better. So, you know, you gotta be willing to share. With the team because they'll act more in your interest and more the way you want them behaviorally, if you're sharing that type of information. I'm not talking about the exit strategy. I'm talking about the things that are going on in your industry that, you know, there's disruption, there's change going all the time. And if you're not working to keep your team up on it and, you know, you talked about preparing for the week, you know, that's a structure that I have that also includes, you know, having time, personal time, you know, in mornings and stuff, not at four in the morning. I'm not that guy. But you know, you have to take time. For me, it's Wednesdays to network. So, you know, I have a list of people that I've reached out to on Monday. Hey, do you got time available Wednesday that I know, you know, they're not a competitor in any way. And I can have a very candid conversation and, you know bilaterally. You know, they can have one with me about things going on in the industry and kicking around ideas. And then Friday is project day for me. You know, they're things that are very important long-term and require time and study and thought. And sometimes it's information your team's bringing to you, but it's also research I'm doing. I gotta validate, you know, if you're developing a position or a belief in something and you're bringing in information to support that belief and getting rid of prejudice and bias and all that, you know, the critical thinking way of making decisions, you gotta have time to just quiet and, and start writing it out and, you know, putting the facts there. And you know, people have asked me You know, how, what, what, you know, what are some of the keys to success? And, you know, one of'em that I believe is in decision making. We are all gonna make mistakes in decisions. Happens all the time. Happens to me, no more than anybody else, but there is a discipline to not making a mistake and being able to recognize it that will harm the business and put it in peril. And, and that's when, you know, that's what those Fridays are for, for me, can this decision have such an effect, negative that I could lose the business, I could change the value, you know, in a very negative way. So when you know you have that type of decision, or at least be able to recognize it, slow it down, and go get information and be talking to people and research it, make sure it's highly developed. The decision and it's, it's not making the right decision all the time. It's don't make the wrong decision that will put a business, you know, really at risk. A avoiding the, the big, big, big mistakes, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. We, we all make little ones. Yeah. So, so really interesting. So one, one part is you even structure your day, right? Like a certain day of the week is meant for something different than the other. Yeah. So really important and I think it's really valuable. You put yourself in that mindset and are able to execute on that big idea. And, and again, William, you continue to, to share with us a higher level of thinking so you're not just evaluating the decision or, or, or, or making the decision, but you are evaluating the decision from a higher level in understanding the risk with the decision. So I think that's a wonderful message to everyone, right? Not only understanding your decision, but the impact. Of the decision, which is kind of a little higher level of thinking that that is, that is some fantastic advice. William, before, before we kind of let you go, what is, what is something that you're looking forward to that's happening here in the next few weeks or months? Professionally, professionally, personal, both. Well professionally, we'll start there. The, the company that I'm leading right now is getting ready to split into two regions in the US So we will now have the ability to double our business within the next year. So, you know, we'll have a hundred percent growth opportunity by doing that and putting the team together and everything that goes along with that. So, professionally, that's super exciting. Say as a subset to that professionally, Already having conversations with potential buyers. And those are interesting to have cuz we're in very early stage right now. But because of, you know, big enough, unique enough timing's, right you know, it's a, it's not literally getting paid for an idea, but it feels like that sometimes, you know, but you gotta go out and at least get it to a series A level where you're demonstrating, you know, it makes money and it's scalable and all those things. But that's happening. And then on a personal level, most exciting thing is I will be living at the beach. Very cool. Hopefully by the end of February, you know, 70, 80% of the year. For as long as I. Excellent, excellent. And then, and then, and then in the, in the next to a golf course, the other 30%, is that still the plan? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So my wife and I decided we would have two, two homes. One on a golf course. I don't golf but I'm getting ready to pursue that. And then being able to spend more time at the beach in South Texas. So I'm really looking forward to that lifestyle. I'm adjusting, you know, how I, my schedule and how I'm gonna live and, and, and that keeps me, you know, really stimulated and fresh, you know having those years off. I'm 63. I mean, I feel like I'm, you know, as far as passion and spirit and all that towards work, you know, I'm not burned out. You know, I'm ready to go. Excited every day, you know? So if, if you have a chance to get to do some resetting in a career to me it's really invaluable. That is, that is so excellent, William. It's been, it's been super powerful, insightful. We've learned a little bit about you, your mindset. Hopefully there's a lot we can take away from here and actually implement in our lives, in our business. Where, where could somebody find you? Can you tell us you know, the company And where somebody might be able to reach you if they, you know, if they have some questions or, or wanna know, know more about the business. So the company that I'm building right now is called Physicians Hearing Network. It's located in San Antonio, Texas. I don't have the number to the office. I do have a desk at the office. The best way to reach me is probably email which is w m M cc r a e gmail.com. And you know, if there's something you want to hear more about I love talking about business. And would love to also hear your. Thank you. Thank you so much, William. For our audience head over to practical leadership.com, practical leadership.com, so you can download the summary and the notes from our meeting today. And William, again, thank you so much for taking the time. It has been fantastic. I look forward you know, to bringing more updates on, on the progress of P H N and hearing, hearing more stories. There's a lot everyone can learn. So thank you so much again for taking the time. Thank you, max, for inviting me. Take care.