Practical Leadership - Guest Eric Holsapple

In this episode of the Practical Leadership Podcast, our guest Eric Holsapple shares how mindfulness has transformed his life and business, and how he helps others do the same. As a developer and entrepreneur with 40 years of experience in real estate and a PhD in economics, Eric brings a unique perspective on how merging mindfulness and business can lead to positive change.

Eric is also the founder of Living in the Gap, an organization that supports heart-centered professionals and CEOs in reaching new heights through mindfulness tools. His new book, The 12 Pillars of Mindful Leadership, focuses on the tenets of mindful leadership and the evolution of consciousness and spirituality.

Eric discusses the importance of being focused and present, and how mindfulness practices can lead to better health and productivity in the workplace. He also emphasizes the need for employees to prioritize their health and families, and how mindfulness can help with that.

Eric dives into the neuroscience behind mindfulness and awareness, and how being aware and detached from disappointment can allow people to see more opportunities and positive aspects in their lives. He also addresses the detrimental effects of anger and scarcity mindset, and how mastering habits and little things can lead to achieving goals and visions.

Ultimately, Eric believes that mindfulness has improved every aspect of his life and business, and that building positive habits requires intention and effort. By embodying transformational shocks over a long period of time, individuals can develop sustainable practices that lead to a state of flow and high-level concentration.

Join us in this episode to learn how merging mindfulness and business can lead to positive change in your life and organization. Tune in to hear Eric's insights on mastering habits, aligning with positive habits, and embodying transformational change.

Transcript

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Hello and welcome to the Practical Leadership Podcast where leaders share their tools and practical advice to make you a better leader today. And our guest today is a successful developer and entrepreneur. He has used mindfulness to transform his life and business, and he helps others do the same. He has a PhD in economics, has been a real estate. C e o and developer for nearly 40 years has lectured in real estate at Colorado State University, has practiced yoga meditation for 30 years. He has a unique perspective on how merging business in mindfulness can be a catalyst for changing lives. He has one entrepreneur of the year award from Colorado State University in BizQuest Magazine is also the founder of Living in the Gap, an organization that supports and guides heart center professionals and CEOs in reaching new heights through mindfulness tools. Their programs teach a new way to lead and succeed in business. All I can say is I've had this date circled in my calendar. I can't wait to, to jump in. Our guest today, Eric Ssap. Eric, welcome to the podcast. Thanks Max. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here too. Thank you. Thank you Eric. So, you know, before, before we get started, I always like to warm up a little bit with what is something good that's been happening in your world in the last few weeks or months? Oh gosh. I would say, I'm just watching some people bloom. You know, some people that have been working hard for a while. We have a mindful leadership program. We just had our second intensive and just watching. We did a visioning where they complete their vision boards and they write their vision statements and what they want to do with their lives and, and to just watch people Bloom was great. And then I had another, last night I was in Denver, had 25 some of the top professionals in Denver in the real estate community, at least in an in eight week introduction to mindfulness. And to just watch their excitement, to find another way, you know, the stress and anxiety that we have, and to find another way maybe to operate was really exciting to them. And that excites me. So I'd say those are the biggest things lately of just watching people transform and bloom really, really gives me joy. Do, do, it doesn't surprise me. Right? It's, it's so consistent. It's, it's all about the people. It's about. The presence and caring of others and kinda leading with the heart. You've got a new book coming up as well. Yeah. That must be pretty, pretty exciting and yeah. I love, I love the title. So tell us just a little bit about it because you know, this, this podcast is practical leadership. It's full of it. Yeah. You know, full of practical leader. Make sure you know our guests, know what I mean? Tell us just a little bit about the book. You know, the, the core of the book is the 12 Pillars of mindful leadership, which is, you know, the tenets of our mindful leadership. We have a nine month mindful leadership program for professionals and executive CEOs. Beginning of the book talks about the conceptual framework, about just the science of consciousness and how it's evolved and how spirituality and, and science are merging at many levels. And science is really tackling it. Many academias are, are really studying and getting published and the, and consciousness and how we just really create our world. You know, that it's more biological than it is than it is physics. It's it's biology. So much of it is mind. Eric, is it, is it just me or is this subject like starting to become more mainstream more mainstream people talking about it, more people trying to understand it. Totally. Yeah. And, and do you think it is, it is, it is because it's a need or because it's becoming popular because some, you know, thought leaders or influencers are talking about it, or, or do you think it's driven by this strong need in this kind of dopamine field world that, that it becomes so important? I think it's both. And I also, I think that pointing to it, I mean, I think that we've been so enamored with development of building things and growing in technology, that that just overwhelmed everybody for a hundred years. You know, we were just going through industrial revolution and then the internet and everything was growing, whatnot, and now we've kind of hit a wall. To your point, you know, we've kind of hit a, a thing where everybody's kind of wondering, well, geez, did we blow up the planet? What do we, you know, what has happened here? Are we gonna. Is, is it, is it crumbling? And so I think that's, that's increasing the the need a little bit. I also think that it's just taken a little bit of time for you know, the, the the Eastern thinkers have been talking about this and writing about it for thousands of years. I mean, I came through yoga and, you know, the scientists are now coming up with a similar, similar theories that the people that were just studying the planets and, you know, staying up and gazing and whatnot years ago before we were so tied up in the industrial revolution in TVs and everything, when they just studied things were coming up with. So I think that's merging a little bit, you know, but since Einstein, it really didn't get a lot of attention until. Yeah, it's, it, to me it's surprising how, you know, ancient wisdom is, is more needed, is needed more today than ever. Right. In, in, in following on those, on those practices, let me shift gears a little bit. Let's go back to the subject of, of leadership. So when, when did you first become aware of this idea of, of leadership, of, of, of the fact that there's leaders out there? Oh. Probably it was in my thirties, you know, when I really went back and I went back and, and did a, a PhD in economics and really got involved with the community before I really noticed my twenties. I was really in business, but I was just traveling so much, you know, 50 weeks a year and going here, there, and it never really was in one place long enough to really notice mm-hmm. That, but once I got ingrained in a community and I just saw what difference, some, some leaders could, some people were just willing to take a stand and give back and do things. The difference they were making. That's when I started noticing. So, so if I understand correctly, you know, you're, you're in your twenties, you're hustling, you don't have time to look around, you're just kind of trying to, you know, Build a better life for yourself and, and then something happened and, and you decided to, to go study economics. Yeah. And then that kind of started you on, on a path where you became more aware of people around you. So tell me a little bit about that. How, yeah, how did you first decide to go into, you know, it's like going into economics and then where did this awakening? Well, as in my twenties, and I was, you know, I came out with an M B A and went into real estate and I was immediately successful within a couple of years. I was the general manager of an Australian based you know, a subsidiary us, and then, then c e o of a little bit after that. And I was traveling all over the place and I just got in on the ground floor and I was really successful. I had the salary, I had the Mercedes, I had the, you know, the, well, the title. I had all that stuff, but I was miserable. Mm-hmm. I was overweight. I was I'm an athlete and I hadn't worked out in years. I started smoking again. I drank too much, you know, and then I, they asked me to transfer to Boston, which was close. I'm from Maine, originally. Got to Boston. The good thing about Boston was there were enough problems in town that I didn't have to travel. So I've gotten one place. They put me up in an apartment. I bought a scale, which cuz I was just going from hotel to hotel and I knew I couldn't button my tie and I knew I couldn't button my pants. But I stepped on that scale and I was, you know, I'm not a very big fella. I was 50 pounds overweight and I looked in the mirror that day and I said, you gotta make some changes or you're not gonna be around very long, you know, I just felt I was feeling the health of it. And that was just a moment that hit me. I ended up leaving that job and starting my own company. I consulted with them for a while, helped them out, and it helped me. And you know, started exercising again. Lost some weight. I met my, my met my current wife. I decided to go back to school and study economics, which I, I loved economics. I was undergraduate. I decided I want to find some more purpose, you know, teaching, I thought I wanted to teach and, and share that. And then I found yoga and I started doing some yoga. That was the fir I had didn't come to detach from my body. And I got reattached and resod with my body through yoga. Couple years later, my oldest brother who had been estranged from my dad, he's a poet. My old, my dad was a football coach and they were kind of like oil and water. So I watched my brother through meditation, come closer to my dad and open up, and then my dad opened up and I got my family back. I said, wow, that was, so, I watched somebody change the world just through himself changing, you know, my dad didn't change. You know, he, he, he was receptive cuz he wanted a, a, a relationship with his son. And then, and my brother said, do you want to try it? And I said, yeah. So I started meditating for years. I was a closet meditator, you know, you don't, you can be completely private. And then later on people started noticing changes in me and asked me what was going on. And I started sharing a little bit, and later it came into the company. Like, that's a whole nother story, but, wow. Well that's, that's kind of the story our, our audience is gonna want to hear, so let's do it. So, you know, the, the story that you tell is a, is a common story out there, right? We're working really hard. We can't, we can't even stop to see if we're happy or not. Yeah. But one day we do, and that day we look in the mirror and say, uhoh, I'm not happy. Things are not right. And all the energy that we were using to build success, now we redirect and. Have a transformation of ourselves. Right. So that's, that's, that's a powerful story. And, and then I love what you said that, you know, you changed the world by changing yourself. Yeah. So if you can change the world by changing yourself, you can change your your environment. You could change your business, you could change anything around it. And business is one of my subjects, right? Yeah. I love business. I, I'm all about business. I love it. So let, so let's, let's talk a little bit about how this mindfulness, how meditation helps you become a better leader. Yeah. You know, I, I hear a lot out in the, in the business community sometimes of skeptical, you know, that, you know, don't have a time and mindfulness is all that woowoo, you know, we're singing songs and holding hands and, you know, that's too soft. And I find just the opposite. I find woowoo to be all of our distractions. That we're so distracted. Nobody can focus that, you know, you're in a meeting and everybody's on their smartphone or checking in or walking in and out, or, you know, it's the media and social media and all the different things. And if I have one word to describe mindfulness, it's focus. Mindfulness to me is the ability to take my focus back and focus on what I choose to focus on. Notice when I go away and bring myself back, notice when I go away and bring myself back. So it's, it's very much of a, an ability to control my focus. And that's what business is. You know, business isn't, Distraction businesses, can I focus, can I set a goal? Can I come together and do a common thing? So I have found that my business and the other ones that my partners and friends that have done this has usually blossomed with it. Plus you get more efficient, that you can spend more time, you know, with your family. You don't, you we're at work all the time, but are we productive all that time? Most people not, you know, and also we're at home and we're not there. So when we're at work, we have to be paying attention to home cuz we're not paying attention to home when we're there. So can we pay attention at home, take care of that priority. So when we're at work, I can focus at work and I'm not constantly distracted, you know, by that. And of course there's times you've gotta deal with home issues, you know, we all do and it, and it's great to be able to, but it, I take care of what I can take care of when I'm at home. I, I really like how you say it, right? So you know woohoo is actually all those, all those distractions that are out there, I'm heck I. I, I mean, I just don't understand how being busy became something glamorized, right? Like, it, it was something to be proud of. Oh my God, I am so busy. I go to bed at 11 and I'm still answering emails and first thing in the morning I'm starting to answer emails and, and people kind of feel proud of that, and I just don't understand it. How do you think we got there, right? Like, how, how did we get one, one little, how do we get so lost One little, one little bit at a time. I mean, I, I find that we live in thought, you know that. And where did thoughts come from? We have some 6,000 thoughts a day. They were all, and when you start watching'em, you notice they aren't even yours. Most of'em, they've all been put in there by. By parents and friends and government and schools and society and culture and all this stuff has been put in there. And if we don't spend the time to separate ourselves from that, we get run by that. So instead of using our thoughts to improve our life, you know, and be able to think, we get caught up and we're mixed up and think that that's who we really are. When really there's a consciousness behind that, when you get can reside in that, number one, it's a much bigger and calmer place to observe the world from. And you can start watching those thought, and I call it take some pitches. I don't have to follow every rabbit, every thought down, every rabbit hole. I can just say, thanks. Thanks for sharing. I'm not going there. You know, that's not, I have some very un wholesome thoughts. I don't want to foster every thought that I have. So you come up with a separation of that. But I think we get tied up in those thoughts and it's until we slow down enough and start watching and bring a separation, it's confusing and it's busyness. And we figure out busyness is who we are versus, I mean, really joy and, and happiness come in the, in the, in that little awe between thoughts. Like when you see a beautiful sunset or a sunrise and you go, ah, the mind is slowing down, you get a pause in it. That's peace, right? Stress and anxiety are in the thoughts. It, it's interesting cuz I find that the more we focus, the more we actually get done, the more progress we actually have. You know, one of the pillars of, of, of what I, what I help clients with is prioritizing, which means saying no to a bunch of things. So you can say yes to the most important ones. I like to joke that we go from complete overwhelm to just realm but ultimately it becomes more productive in there. Why do you think that is? Like, why do you think being focused ends up becoming more productive? Well, because we multitask, but that is not focus. We can only focus on one, maybe two things, you know, at a time. And if we're doing six different things, we're probably not doing any of them. You know, we have our email open, we're on the phone, our doors open, people are walking down the hall, plus we got a paper here. We're, you know, reading and another one over here we're doing, we got so many things going that none of'em are really getting done well. You know, when we, and we know that when we really have to get something done, we gotta block it out. You know, we have to find a way and focus is being able to do that on command, you know, saying, no, I'm doing this right now, you know, this is what I'm doing. And so we focus on it and we get it done. I, I think if I show up with presence focused, I can move the world in a few hours a day. I get a ton done, and you know, I'm very, very persuasive, very effective. But if I'm just, just distracted, I mean, we all have busyness down and we have working hard down, but what are we getting done? You know? And really we're in it for happiness and, and busyness and happiness are not the same thing. Yeah. I'm gonna write that down. That's, that's a, a, a really good quote. So, you know we are, we are here for happiness, not busyness. Yeah. That's why we're in business. We want to be happy, but what we, what are we waiting for? So what, one of the things that I, that I find is that when we are focused, we are also more creative and have better thoughts, better thinking and more clarity. And I often ask myself, where, where, like, where should we start? Do we start with. Our, our personal training on getting focused on meditation, on things that are outside of work, or can we use work as our training ground to gain, to get focused in, in, in my case, I'm a, you know, I'm a, what I, what I would say like a a little bit of an inconsistent meditator, but I find that I, I meditate on business quite a bit. Yeah. So I, I wonder, could we, could we start at either end or do you think starting, you know, one way might be better than the other? Well, I mean, I think business is a tremendous opportunity for a number of reasons. One is we spend so much time at work and when we get home from work, we're tired and. If you can, my, I believe business is the great melting pot. You know that America, we talk about it being the great melting pot, but really melts in business. We got all races, all religions, all political parties coming together for a common cause and we, we are dictated to work together, And if we can bring mindfulness there, it's just a whole nother level of it. We start, we stop judging, we start listening, those kind of things. We start seeing people as people. And the beauty is we bring it home, we learn it there, we're there, and I bring it home. I share it with my spouse, I stare up with my kids. Some of it gets to the, to the schools. If I'm, if I'm coaching a team, it gets there. If I go to church, it gets there. Where are families go. So that's one. And the other is everyone in business is struggling for. So if we bring it into business and, and it has to come from the top, it has to come from the, you know, the c e o and the management team saying, yeah, oh, I'm into this. It can't, I mean, one or two people at the bottom is, it's great for them, but to really infuse it in a business, it has to be bought in at the top. But if you believe in focus, you're really teach and, and it improves. Aetna's shown they did a study, they had 2000 a year per employee, 13,000 person study, 2000 dollars a year improvement in healthcare costs and an increase of$3,000 a year in productivity. If you believe in mindfulness and focus the in, in investing in your people, then they can focus more. We give a half hour a day for mindfulness practices and we have noticed no reduction in, in, in performance. In fact, we've in found an increase in it. Yeah. And, and I think it's. A fallacy for those of us in business to think that employees are going to put business in their job, ahead of their personal life, or even that they should, their health is paramount and their families are paramount. And we need, I think we need to honor that and that we'll have better, more productive, more loyal employees if we do that. What, what, what, what a great thought. Right? So we gotta take care of people first, right? Starting with their health. Yeah. Right. You know, their family life and if they're in great shape, then they're gonna show up in great shape. Do you find that the, the mindfulness practices are conductive or similar to. getting, getting in a state of flow. Like do you feel like it, it brings a high level of concentration, high level of, of engagement time just passes by, flies by and, and you're just performing at a higher level. Is it? Is it what I, what I believe and what I've experienced and what I coach is that most of us have a flow activity. For me, it's snow skiing. For my wife, it's painting. For some people it's knitting or taking a walk in nature. Being in nature or hunting or, or something. So we have some activity and many times we've gotten away from it. We've gotten so busy at work and it hasn't been rewarded. And we had the family and we're all that stuff. So we know it was there. Like we've had some people come through that didn't play music since they're in high school. Mm-hmm. they start playing music again and they go, whew, that's flow. You know, I'm in the zone. Yeah. So what I coach and teach is, okay, get that feeling and then work towards having that at work where you're spending, you know, 7, 8, 10 hours a day, can I not? And it won't be all the time. Like I'm not in flow when I'm doing expense reports. You know, I, I'm, that's something they don't enjoy doing. Unless, unless that's your thing, right? Unless that's your, yeah. Well for some people it's accounting, it's numbers. Yeah. Yeah. And I love numbers, but it's not accounting. It's more finance than numbers I like mm-hmm. But but everybody has that thing. And can you get into flow with that? Like, for me now, it's working with people. It wasn't that way for me before. It was, you know, just going as hard as I could and building something and doing this and, and it's changed that now. I, I just love working with people and it's flow for me. I, I remember reading a study where they were looking at something like 500% increase in productivity when in a state of flow, in a state of mindfulness in this, in this, in this state. Yeah. I mean, you might not be able to get through more expenses, expense reports, right? Like, you might not improve that productivity But when it comes to creativity and the quality of your thought, You will see major, major gains and, and it's, and in some cases even the, the, the quantity of work that you can output. So I think it, it, it goes from, as you were saying, right? Like this, this woowoo soft skills, peopley stuff to a competitive advantage. Totally. I mean 20 years ago there were, there were few companies that were talking about core values. Now everybody knows about core values. I mean, hopefully everybody knows about core, core values still not implemented as well as they should, but at least everybody understands that, right? Mm-hmm. I believe that that mindfulness is, is, is a competitive advantage right now and. Everybody else, you know, in 10 years is going to be following suit and is going to help you. I hope it's, I hope it is. You know sh Bader told us in 1942 that business has creative destruction. It keeps destroying the old and bringing the new in, you know, brought the railroads in and then brought the automobiles in and then the airplanes in and the other thing. Then the internet and just transform the internet came in and I remember it coming in 1996, we had the.com boom. By the end of the end of the, the decade. Mm-hmm. you know, and then we had the crash and, and business just transforms things. So my dream is that businesses adopt mindfulness wholehearted and transforms the whole planet, is that if business did it, it will go everywhere and it'll show that it is a superpower and it's so simple and so affordable and makes, I mean, look at the mental health, like just take something that everybody argues about like guns. No one argues that it's mental health. Mindfulness could be one of the greatest things that we could agree on to say, Hey, why don't we work on mindfulness? You know, so, so I, I know what my audience is, is, is thinking right now. All right. Let's, let's get some examples. What exactly do we mean? Before that, just, just one quick comment. You know, I, I've, for whatever reason, I love technology and I always look to Silicon Valley and see what they're doing. Mm-hmm. they tend to be a little bit ahead of the curve. Yeah. And, and, and mindfulness is one of those practices that, that they're really starting to get into. So you know, the, the next question is, okay, great. How do, how do I get into it? How do I start working on it? Yeah. And you know, typically there's these, you know, big difficult to access companies that can do it, but yeah. But now we've got Eric here, right? Yeah. So I, I, you know, you're gonna tell us a little bit about how somebody could engage with, with you and, and with what you do. But we definitely want a little taste, right? Like, what are, what are some things, like what is your go-to couple of activities that anyone in our audience could say, okay, if I do this, I will become better and I will become a better leader right now. You have a me meditation can be intimidating for a lot of people. So I'm gonna talk about that one second. The first one I'd say do a simple practice like gratitude. You know, gratitude is simple. If we get up in the morning, the sciences irrefutable. If you get up in the morning and think about three things you're grateful for and why it changes your brain and you start looking for things to be grateful for, but rather than things to be irritated about and that keeps your mind more open and you see more possibilities and you're more mindful, period. I mean, just that. Practice some people, that's all they do. And if you were gonna do one thing, I'd say, dude, be grateful. But you know, and it's a practice. It is. You know, it's something to practice. Meditation, you know, before, before move on to meditation. Yeah. Gratefulness. You've mentioned a few things. Could, could you guide us through maybe a couple of minutes of, of how we could be grateful? Yeah, absolutely. So just think of a, something, something small or something big you're grateful for. For me, you know, my kids are, my wife are every single morning. Some people think you have something new every day, but I find, you know, or that's something that, that hits me every day. And when they come to me and they have issues or this comes up or whatnot, if I'm grateful for them, that turns when I get that call, whatnot, I automatically am different. When I answer that, call I am, cuz I'm thinking about all the great things and where would my life be without them? You know, I was alone until I was 32. I, I was miserable. I had a family change my life, you know, it just was really great. Little things, even your breath you can be grateful for. Just thinking about, you know, having this breath or a sunshine. Sunrise, your breakfast. You could be grateful for your coffee. You know, anything small like that could be grateful. And then you can think about, boy, I'm grateful for how bad things could be. You know, some, there's a lot of bad things out there that I don't have. I have some of'em. I don't have'em all. Well, I'm grateful for, you know, the things I don't have too in those things. So it's a wide open practice. Usually we pick three things a day. Some people believe they should be different every day. I, I, I don't practice that. I, I practice, you know, I'm grateful and I, I pick three things every single day and I write'em down and it just changes my brain. I, I used to get up in the morning and think, where's mine? You know? And I still get mine. I just, I'm wired to get mine, but I also now include some other people and, and are happier about it, you know, and have a little bit of attitude. And I notice people more, so. So you mentioned to write them down? Yeah. I think it's helpful. I mean, you can say, just say'em, you know, that'd be fine. Whatever. Whatever it takes. Whatever works for you. Well, for me, writing, when I write'em, I also say'em, so I get a double, you know, I'm, I'm talking about it and it's there, but I, I do what I would do. What works. You know, everybody's not the same. We're all snowflakes. You know what works for you and you're doing it by yourself. You're not telling anybody else. No, don't have to. Another one is do do something nice for somebody. Don't let'em know, you know, do a random act of kindness. Do something nice, you know, we're always doing it. And then we want'em to know, Hey, did you see I got you that coffee? What if you just got it and they didn't know where it came from? Or you do something nice for someone. That's another practice that's simple and or, you know, service work is gratitude and action. You know, I want to say, you know, you want to solve hunger, go join the food bank. Just help a little bit where you're actually putting yourself out there. And there's also then I find what I call the procession effect of doing community service work, which is when I'm out in the community doing work, I meet other leaders and I, this is how I set my karma. I don't go there for this, but I go there and I'm trying to build a house for habitat or get the food bank done, or teaching a class and good things happen. You know, I'm just aware and I meet people at a whole nother level than if I'm cold calling. You know, I just a whole nother level that I meet people and when they need something, they just asked me. I, I was at a a board meeting one time and a guy came, I'm a real estate developer by trade guy. Ralph came up to me and said, you know what? I really appreciate what you've done for the community in Colorado State and all that. And I know you developed shopping center and said North College in Fort Collins has needs a, needs a developer up there. Would you go meet with a North Fort Collins Business Association? I said, sure. I would remember the guy. Five years later, I'm building a shopping center for him. Yeah. Horrendous. And it, it just happened because I was out in the community taking intentional action, setting it, and these things happen. So I, I think we all have a, a story of two or two right, of a serendipity happening to us when we least expected it and, and it, and was triggered by just some good actions. Just some good thoughts. Totally. You said something about the, you know, gratefulness practice that I, that I had not heard, but it just makes so much sense. You know, how our, our brain is wired to pick up on the dangers and on the negatives, right? Yeah. So for some people it's just a lot easier to look at that. So, so I really like what you're saying when you're saying, don't just think about like what you're grateful for, but imagine what it would be like to not have that. Yeah. Look, because then that'll give you the contrast that you need to say, whoa, cuz then you, you don't take it for granted anymore. You'll appreciate it more, I think the global rich list says that we're the average American is 30 times wealthier than the average person in the rest of the world. Hmm. And if we can't be grateful and happy, what chance does the world have? You know, and science is now showing. Now we're just reading a book called The Happiness Advantage in our eight week mindfulness program, corporate mindfulness program by Sean Archer, which is a great book. Harvard Research just says, you know, being happy will make you more successful. I mean, who do you want to call when you're thinking about calling somebody, if someone's gonna make you feel better? Or someone whose glasses always half empty. You know, I want to call a person that's gonna make me feel bigger and happy. So I, I think it makes total sense. Plus, I'm turning negatives into positives all the time. I'm not, I'm not, you know, I'm always looking. When the good Lord shuts the door, he opens a window, you know, always looking for where the opportunity is. And that comes from optimism and happiness and awareness. I'm, I'm a little bit of a neuroscience geek, so there's, there's also the neuroscience of it right there. You know, anywhere from, from the chemicals in our brain to the main, the, the awareness that we bring in and our articular activating system. And basically you just see more opportunities because you are open to the opportunities. And, and there's all these like tests and research that I, that I love about it. So, you know, trying, trying to say, Hey, this, this stuff is, it goes from practices that have been around for millennial to. Science proving it and actually starting to understand it a little bit more and putting the science behind it so it, it, it, it becomes undeniable, right? So people that, that, that, that practice and do it, see the benefits it's being measured and now, and now there's even more and more evidence and understanding of how it happens. So yes, so I cited so much of it writing my book, but I, I wrote it from personal experience. Like my experiences we're so focused on what we want and we take some actions, but it doesn't happen exactly like we want. We don't see all the good things there, there are, but if we can detach from that a little bit and just be aware, we see, oh, that didn't happen, but look at this, this could be even better. But we're so disappointed, that we don't allow ourselves that. We just want to be mad. You know? So if we give that up, awareness is automatic, that we're wider and we go, oh, look at that. Maybe I'll try that. That could be even better. So I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll confess something to our, to our audience here, because I've evolved quite a bit over the years myself. And, you know, there were times where, where I felt that being angry was a way to stay safe. Oh, man. Right? So, being angry men means that the world knows that, you know, you're not putting up with it and you know, you, you're, you're, you're gonna be better protected from it. And ultimately you realize that it's the opposite. You know, you only, you only get more of, of that, you only get more angry. You only get more things that will make you angry, more things that don't go your way. And ultimately you realize that you're not better protected. You're, you're not putting yourself in a better place in that by, by actually forcing yourself to look at the positive side of things, right. And, and understand the good, more good comes, which kind of goes back to your idea that you know, you can change the world by changing yourself. I had a similar, I mean, anger was a biggie for me. I found I had a blind spot and I was running my business. You know, I'd be at a closing, not going my way. I'd tip over the table, basically you know, and then I'd be doing the same at home, you know? And I realized that I was, I actually generating anger after a while, being aware of it. I would actually be self-generating anger to get what I wanted. And when I realized it, I was sick about it. I just said, that's disgusting, Really? I said, I don't wanna live that way. If I can't convince somebody logically, then I don't need to get my way. And, and, and what I, what I understood was this crazy idea that, If you're angry all the time, your system starts to predict that. And, and yes, wants to be consistent with it. So whenever you're not angry, it finds a way to make you angry, because that's kind of what you're now programmed. Homo, homo stasis or whatever you're Exactly, exactly. To stay that way. And the opposite is true. If you're always happy, then something bad happens, you find your way back into happiness because you know, now you're, I'll take that one, I'll take that one. Max. Max right? So I'll take that view. Yeah. And, and, and, and, and I think that for me, what allowed me to have a little bit of this transformation was what you teach and what you do, because it's only by being able to pay attention to yourself and seeing how you are Yeah. Knowing where your mind is going in, in that mindfulness is what opened the door to the awareness that that followed, which then allowed me to take further steps. So to me it's, it's You know, it opens so many positive doors. It's improved every single aspect of my life. Yeah. Every single As from my business to my family life, to my relationship with my wife, to my friends, to my sports performance, it's improved every single aspect of my life. No, I, I believe that how we do one thing is how we do everything. I exa I use that quote, I haven't used it since yesterday, but I use that quote all the time. and, and, and, and it's true, right? So, if we're, if we're, if we're going into, into life with optimism and joy, we go into business with optimism and joy. We, if we're, if we're intense and engaged, we're gonna be intense and engaged in everything that we do. So we've gotta be mindful of that, right? Because if you're, if you're an angry manager, I, I doubt that you're gonna be a, a hap you know, a happy go-lucky spouse. Right. And that's why I say too, the beauty of learning it at work is you bring it home. Yeah. You know, you don't, you learn it at home you learn it at work. And then I, the really reward, I get one of the biggest rewards when somebody comes back and say, you know, what we learned in that workshop? Gosh, I had this conversation with my wife last night that was a game changer, best conversation I've had with her in years. You know, something like that just says, you know, and I learned that at work. You know what, that's a job worth having. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I, I, I, I, I love that philosophy that, you know, if we can teach people through business, And I, I think business is gonna, that's gonna save the world. You know? It needs to, and, and it needs, I, I'm a little nervous about what's out there, and I think in the end, you know, in South Africa, in the precipice of civil War with the apartheid, it was the business community in the end that got sanctioned and said, enough, you know, we enough end this. We wanna, we wanna have be in business. And I just think, I love business and I think in the end when businesses had, I don't know how bad it has to get here, but at some point, business is gonna say, enough, let's move the ball. Yeah. I, I, I, I agree. I think, you know, entrepreneurs are here to make the world a better place, right? They're, they're here to find pain points and bring solutions. So I think that, yeah, our you know, many times we think that it's these big corporations that, that have the biggest impact in the economy, but in reality, it's, it's mid-market. Businesses and, and even smaller businesses that, that really have that impact. And it's important to recognize that because we, we are fueling our, our communities and impacting thousands of people around us. And if we can recognize that, then we know that if we get better, our business will get better, our community will get better. That's how mind, that's how capitalism works with mindfulness. Capitalism works for everybody. Not just the elite, not just the 1%. It can work for everybody cuz we recognize that, you know, we need, we need customers that have some wealth. it doesn't do us any good to have a great product. You know, if only the 1% can buy it. You know, that's just common sense too. And, and we get compassion and we get generosity and we get some of those other things. He says, you know, I got plenty I can afford to, you know, help this person with a house or with a lunch or whatever it is. That's how capitalism works. And, and I think capitalism is the best system in the world, and, but I think it can't work without democracy and it can't work without mindfulness. So let's talk a little bit about meditation and then let's talk a little bit more, more about how mindfulness connects the dots. Great. So, so you're gonna teach us a little bit about like how to do a little meditation practice, right? That's easy to get into. So the first one I'd do is if you're comfortable closing your eyes, close'em. But if not, just down at a soft gaze is fine, but just listen to your breath. Just listen to your breathing. Just take a few minutes or two seconds and just when you hear that breath, that's presence. You're in the. Following, just following your breath with, with that practice. Do that for a year and you'll be totally transformed. Now it's not that easy. You need to notice when you're with your breath and when you lose it and come back to your breath, you know? So you have to do it, but it's, I think the biggest mistake, most people, or lots of people anyway, I don't know most people make, is just to try to do too much too soon. The mind has got some 6,000 thoughts a day, pretty busy. And if I try to go there when I first start, 10 or 20 minutes, I can get really discouraged. So I say two minutes, just start with a couple of minutes going there, and as your mind calms down over a few weeks, you'll want a little bit more. But if you go too much and you get discouraged, you know, that's what I think we hear so much is, I can't meditate, but two minutes, I think we can do that. And so we start off and our program is nine months and we've been in it since August 1st, now about six, and we're up to 10 minutes. Now I'll, I'll lead them up to some 20 minutes. But most people will, and I, and I've had a practice for a long time and I'm 20 minutes, but a lot of people, that 10 minute mark will be enough, you know? And then, then if you have more time and you go to a weekend, you know, meditation retreat or something like that, when you have time or silent retreat or something, that's when you can really dive a little deeper if you get interested in that. And you can never do that too, you know? But I think consistency is more important than length of time, the intention to be mindful and then find the other practices, like a mindful walk that you do. You know, just take a walk around the building at lunch, you know, takes and leave your phone at the desk and it'll wait 10 minutes. Just walk around the building, look up at the trees, take the breath, just clear yourself out and say, all right, let's go. Come on afternoon, let's go. You know, it's, it's the, the little tiny things are what'll get you there when you try to go too big too soon. We get discouraged and we just say, I can't meditate. I'm too, my mind's too crazy. I I I I totally appreciate that. Right. I, I like the idea that, you know, we make it so it's so easy to do that. It's uncomfortable not to do it. Right? Yeah. So are you gonna be thinking about meditating for two minutes all day and be concerned that you haven't done it? Or are you just, are you just gonna stop for two minutes and do it? Right. So it's like, ah, I'm just gonna do it cuz it's two minutes versus I don't, I don't have 20 minutes. Right. I mean, there's all these different things happening around me. Yeah. And, and just, just showing up is, is half the, half the battle, I would say. And for, and for most of us, when we get started, at least we don't have 20 minutes. You know, we are on a dead run, but we have two. Yeah, we have a couple minutes. So our, we have a 10 on our website. This is a 21 day introduction to meditation to mindfulness. It's 10 minutes a day sent to you, mailbox, two minutes of meditation and some mindful movement, some other things to get you in the, in the mindset, but mo most of us can send something like that. But to start, and later on, when you get more focused and more efficient and you're craving it, you've got more time, you'll make it, you know, plus you're sleeping better. You can get up a little earlier, you know, those kind of things. But when you start, start small and be consistent. I, I, I have to add a couple things there, and Please, and this is, well, it's, you know, we, we believe that we don't have time and long story, so I'm not, I'm gonna save it for another day. But ultimately what you realize is that we, we have time. What we don't have is priority. Mm-hmm. and, and, and when you can really change your mindset and say, this is a priority. Then it'll, it'll have the time, but it doesn't happen until you can make that, that switch and put it in the right place. So I have a system of priority. Do we have a minute? Oh, absolutely. Share it. We, we, we, we love this stuff. I have a little analogy that I use with baseball. Okay. Is homeplate for me is my personal work. That's a little meditation, that's some mindful movement practice. I have prayer, gratitude, you know you can start with 10 minutes and it can move up. You know, mine's longer now, but I crave it and I get up early. But I say my work is number one cuz I want to have the right mindset when I go out into the day. I don't know what's coming at me. Life is the pitcher. I don't know if it's a spit ball, a curve ball, a tsunami, you know, nine 11 the covid, or, you know, or it's a beautiful rainbow coming at me. Or, you know, an opportunity with a pot of gold. I don't know what's coming at me that day, but I want to have the right attitude. First base for me is my family and friends. and I want to make sure my family and friends are taken care of before I go to work. Now, that might have to be the night before to make sure they have things, if I gotta go to work early or whatever, but I want to make sure that I've thought that through and given what I can do to them. Cuz when I, first of all, when I second base for me is work and I can have the greatest job in the world. If my family's a mess, it isn't gonna matter in the least to me. Family's so important to me. You know, I can be really wealthy and, but if my family's a mess, I'm miserable. I'm just not happy. And importantly for employers. when I get to work, I don't want to have to be distracted by my family all the time. I want to be able to take that time and focus and work, and I can get a lot done in a few hours if I'm focused. So I go there and then I say, okay, work. And I'm a hundred percent focused on work. And when that's taken care of, if I, if I go to work before my family's done, I say get thrown out for missing first base. Third base for me is community service. Saving the world. Writing a book. I say, okay, that's great, but not if my work's not done and not if my family's not taken care of because what community service project am I gonna be beneficial to if my checks are bouncing? You know, I haven't done that. Or if I'm unemployed or my family's a mess, you know, I gotta take care of those things. But if I do'em in that order, First, second, third, there's time to do everything. If I prioritize it and if I'm focused and I just think that's a home run I can do, I can do it all. If I prioritize and know it, I'll say it's so relieving for me to know it's okay when I get that call from my family to take it cuz they're number one, you know? And if my employer doesn't appreciate that, it may be the wrong place. And if employers think that you're gonna prioritize their, your job ahead of their family, I think you're really kidding yourself. And, and, and you're in the wrong place, right? Like you are working in the wrong place. And I think more and more people are becoming aware that, that yeah, they don't have to be in a place like that. So I, I really appreciate the analogy. And, you know, it's, it's, I say this many times, all three things are important totally. But, but there's a clear sequence there. There's, there's clearly a priority. Meaning if there aren't enough resources, you focus on number one. Right. And then you put, put the, it's the airplane mask, right? You gotta, with the airplanes going down, put the mask on yourself first, or you're not gonna save anybody, you're all gonna go, right. But if I get the mask on myself, you know, who knows? Maybe I can pull the plane out of it, you know? Absolutely. Save my kids. Absolutely. Yeah. So you start, you know, you start with yourself. You go to your, to your family. Yeah. You go to work, then you go to the community. And that's, that's the sequence and makes, makes perfect sense. And if, you know, I think, I think one of the things I've experienced both experienced it in corporate America. I, I see it often with businesses that I either work with or talk to where they, where they say one thing, but behave in a very different one. Right? Mm-hmm. what do you, why do you think that happens? Like, why do you, why, why do you think you know, we, we. We understand it conceptually. Yeah. But we have such a hard time implementing it because we live in scarcity mindset. You know, we're still, like my parents were raised in the depression and I see kids, you know, this way I caught at the university 20 years, mostly seniors. I see it all the time. Parents are afraid kids are gonna starve to death. You know, kids with a, kids in America generally aren't starving and now they're some poor and whatnot. But most of us that are professionals, we'd be much better to have our kids finding purpose in what lightens'em up and what they love to do and rewarding'em to do and find that passion. But no, it's, I mean, most of the time they always at, at C CSU in most of the time, the kids would come in and they'd be, you know, gonna graduate. And I'd say, well, why are you here? And they'd say, well, mom and dad said, you know, business are engineering and they'd pay for it, you know, but that fluffy music degree or you know, art. Not so much. You know, I'll tell you a story. I had a, I was just with a business friend the other day and I had his daughter in, in college and he just thanked me the other day cuz his daughter came through and she was study, I taught real estate and she was doing that. And she says, I really don't like it. I said, what do you like? She says, I love horses. She's today. And I said, follow your passion. You know, follow your passion. Tell your dad to wait. She's got 12 horses in a farm and she's running riding lessons and doing real estate on the side. You know, with the money that she's making, she's investing and doing different things. If you find that passion, it'll dr. It'll drive you. You know? And, and, and the kids, if they're, if they're working, they're not gonna starve to death, you know? So this, this, this conversation could take take hours. Right. I love it. Because you, you, you said, you said this very, very clearly. We are, we are here for happiness. We're not here for business. Yeah. But on the other hand, you've got a scarcity mentality. So the scarcity mentality says, work, work, work. Hustle, hustle. Figure out how you're gonna make money so you can feed yourself. And on the other front we're saying, no, no, we're here to be happy. So there's like, well, you can't be happy if you're not fed. But what we're saying, you know, chances are doesn't take much to have everything taken care of. Yeah. Your folks should be happiness. What are, what are your thoughts on like this dichotomy? It's not a dichotomy to me. You know, and I think entrepreneurship and business is largely an instinct. I love business. I'm happy in business. Some people, it drives'em crazy. You, and they're better off. Teaching school or, or you know, being an artist or something else. I love business. It doesn't, the little conflict doesn't bother me. I love, I love negotiating. I'm good at it, you know, I've never been totally fulfilled in business. That's why I've taught, or I get back through my Living in the GAP program, or I sit on nonprofits cuz I've just felt, I, I'm so tough that I'd burn up. You know, if I just did business and just counted money, I would just, like, I'd burn up. So I've always kind of known that and I've evolved enough to actually, you know, see and through my awareness that yeah, you probably would. It's not enough purpose for you, you know, business is easy for me. Happiness, not so much, you know, happiness I had to really work at. So what, what are your thoughts on. On, on the idea of happiness as a, as a measurement of how the, the country's performing, right? So right now it's all about G D P and some, some countries in, you know, northern Bhutan, European countries. Bhutan is gross national happiness. That's the measure. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know about Bhutan, but I did know about some Northern European countries that are, that are, that are looking more at that. And then they're, they're exploring, you know, four work four day work weeks, shorter work schedules. What are your, what are your thoughts on, on that? Like, should we, I mean, why are we in business? The, the purpose of business can't be that different than the purpose of. You know, and I equate happiness and presence. I say that the same thing. When I'm present, I'm happy, I'm satisfied, I'm feeling joy. You know, those kind of things. So I equate those two things as being happiness and, and, and, and joy and presence to be, you know, ver very similar phenomenon. So I say then the purpose of business is to be present and to be happy too, because it can't be dis so different than the purpose of life and the purpose of life to be happy. What else is it? You know, it, it has to be, that's what the Dalai Lama would tell you, you know, or he does tell us the purpose of life is to be happy. So what does that, and, and I love making things. I love building buildings. I love going places. I think that's all great until I try to find my happiness in. Hmm. So what I teach and what I let a spouse do is to bring my happiness to a situation like golf. For years, I tried to go golf and, and if I had a low score, I was happy. And if I had a high score, I'd come home and kick the dog, you know? And it flipped for me where I brought my happiness to the course, and I started playing better. And it didn't matter that much. You know, I could have a high score and still not kick the dog. I mean, I'd rather have a low score Yeah. You know, but I started actually noticing the people I golfed with, enjoying the process, being aware of the club, and being aware of the thing and being outdoors and breathing. And, you know, golf is fun for me now. It used to be like, either I'd have a 10 or a one, you know? Yeah. Yeah. That's another one we could, we could talk about for an hour. Let, let, let's just talk about this a couple of minutes please. This, this, this idea, and you expressed it through golf. It's like letting go and, and just enjoying and appreciating what's in front of you and how by wanting it less, you actually get more. And it's, I don't know if that's the right way to say it. It's not necessarily about wanting it less, but when you're not so obsessed over your, your, your scoring in golf and you're there to enjoy it, you actually end up playing better. But I've also seen it in other, in other ways. In business. In business, I think it is, I say it's detaching from results. And when we say detaching from results, we're not saying we don't care about results. I'm all about visions and goals and, and profit and doing those kind of things. What I'm saying is we set up metrics. And then we set times in which we review those metrics. Could be weekly, could be monthly, whatever we think it is. And when we're not meeting those metrics, we make changes. But in between those times, I work on being with my customers, on being with my employees, on being, having a qualitative life on doing what I said I do in between, you know, on whatever I said I do. And being a, a good person listening to people. And then again, I'll check the metrics. We have regular set times on everything we have that we set down and review it. And I'm a I, I'm a stickler man. What did we do? Did we do this? Did we do that? But then I let it go. I don't think about it every day. My dad was, every time the stock price, he's, he's passed away rest. God rested his soul. But you know, if the stock market was up that day, he had a good day. And if it was down, he was miserable. You know, it was just I didn't wanna live like that. Yeah. So, so, so the, the, the obsession if, if that's a good word might be a little too much, but is is on the process, is it, is in what you're doing and being present and enjoying it and appreciating it. Yes. You review the outcome, change the plans, obsess over the process of implementation. Because you can't be in both places. You can't be in the result and present at the same time. So it's impossible to be obsessed with the results. And I'm all about results. I mean, I love it. Okay. I love to make money. I love to have low golf scores, all of that. Mm-hmm. But I realize that that's not a purpose. Being with you is a purpose right now. You know, just being present with this call or being present with an employee comes up. That's having a rough day. That's a purpose. You know? And moving, moving along. And if I help that person, they're gonna help the business. Not, I'm not doing it just because of that, but that's what happens. Happy people produce. So you, you've, you've given us a couple of exercises. You, we've got the gratitude exercise, we've got the meditation. Yeah. Short term folks, on your breathing. Is there something else we could be doing for. You know, like mindfulness and aware and being aware of how we're, how we are in, in the moment. Is that how, how do we get there? I think an intention to do it that you can visit, it is a prac, you know, you have to have a practice. I, I think there's a variety. I don't think there's one way to get there or one thing to do, and everybody's different. You know, mindful movement, just some sort of mindful movement, like yoga freaks a lot of people out. I love yoga, but I find, just say, can you really realize and be in your body and, and find some exercise? It could be weightlifting, it could be Pilates, it could be running. You know, can you bring mindfulness to what you do now? Adrenaline is anti mindfulness. Adrenaline kind of drowns it out. We need adrenaline from time to time, right? Tiger's chasing us. We gotta have adrenaline if somebody's threatening or a family. But for mindfulness and because we don't want to be mindful at those times, we wanna take quick immediate action. So we have to, if it's like weightlifting, we wanna slow down a little bit, take a few more reps, you know, a little less weight and maybe have some more at the end that is, you know, gets me back up to get the, you know, the push that I want. But to start it, so some way maybe to get in your body to exercise, and it might be music. Music could be just a beautiful exercise in mindfulness, you know, play in the guitar or singing or whatever it is. My daughter, I just went she just took a singing course for six months and we just went and listened to her sing. You know, she's 28. First time she sung in front of the crowd. Totally transformation, you know, just to watch her light up and have that confidence instead of, and just, yeah, feel it. And it was interesting, the her, her coach or teacher, whatever it was set up and they were trying to tune the guitar and she said I felt that string was off. She didn't say I heard it, it was off. She said, I felt it. And I think that's why as a kid, I struggled with music cuz I was so wound up so hyper. So a d d I didn't feel things, you know, I was always, you couldn't really, you know, music you have to feel too. Yeah. So that can be a great one. Yeah, journaling can be a great, journaling can be a great exercise. Journaling. Find something you like to do and be mindful with it, you know, just slow down a little bit and be mindful. I, I really like, sorry, sorry. I, I really like the idea of, of first setting the intention. Right. And then I think you can find, you can find places. So one of, one of the. Techniques that I, that I teach in terms of just about anything that you want to do or get better at or is, is find like the, the moment where you're shifting gears from one thing to the other and interject something in there. Right? So for example, every time you go to the bathroom, it would be a g a good opportunity to, to be mindful for a second. Wash washing your hands. Be mindful. Yeah. A absolutely. Or, you know, while, while a computer is loading or like you just find little at a stop signs. When I'm at a stop sign, I'm, I'm an anxious, I mean, I'm a fast driver, an anxious sort of stop sign. I just take a mindful breath. Yeah. Yeah. So, so oh, one of my great group of of, of teams and, and clients the Blade group they, their office is next to the train. and you know, it's, it, it could be a little bit of a nuance to, to have the train go by. Mm-hmm. So, so we're just thinking about, you know, what's something we can do? Just, just, you know, instead of it being a negative, be a positive. So the thought was, why don't we just use that to take a breath, take a deep breath. So every time the train goes by, just take a deep breath. You know, you need a moment anyway. So it's like a perfect, it's like a perfect opportunity to do it right? Yeah. Like anything, it requires a little bit of, of discipline, but ultimately it, it becomes something that you do. It can become something cultural and it's something positive, but positive trigger. Positive trigger. You train yourself to do those things Well, you said it, you said it much better than the other. The other thing that I, I think is you do, I think I see the link between commitment and so intention and then commitment and habits. I make commitments, and I, and I form habits. We're very much habitual creatures. You know, science is something like 90. 90 plus, 95% of what we do is habitual. That is the next thing. If I set commitments that are contrary to my habits, they're harder to keep. So I need to work that have my commitments and my habits in sync. I make a commitment to diet. You know, I gotta have the habit of mindful eating. I make the commitment to run. I gotta, you know, have the habits of, of, of running and whatnot. So if my habits are out of sync with my commitments, those commitments are gonna fall. Right? Wow. So I want to have habits that support. So I need to get rid. Pay attention and get rid of habits that are not with my commitments. And I need to form habits, daily habits, simple daily habits that hold up my commitments. Then when life hits the fan, like holidays, vacations, sicknesses, all those kind of things, and I fall off my habits, my commitments there, and I get back on. Hmm. Or, you know, if I'm faulting my commitment a little bit, it's just natural. My habits just there, they form together. So I have to be very careful that my commitments and my habits line up. That that is, that is a powerful concept. I had not heard about aligning commitments with habits. So commitments are things that you want to have happen, right? Like you're committing to exercising, tweeting better to meditating Tell me about the habit part. How do you, how do you align that? How do you make it be aligned with, with that? Well, number one, you gotta start being aware of your habits, right? Because if you don't have a high degree of awareness, you don't even know what they are. Okay? Aware. You start being aware of the habits and you start noticing the little habits that are contrary to who you want to be. Your habits are who you become. Great book James. Clear Atomic Habits is a, is a, is a great book a about this. It lays a lot of this out, but your habits are really who you are in the end, and you're, you are, those little tiny actions and habits are there to reduce effort to do things. So make things easier, to make life easier, make it a habit. And we're very much, and it's actually a beautiful thing, if you can master this, this is how you accomplish your goals and your visions and your business while you pay attention to somebody, because your habits and your little things and your vision are gonna keep taking you to your vision. While I'm here with you talking to you, we naturally move to those things. But if my habits are more sabotaged, you know, or contrary, you know, not supportive, then that's what happens when I'm not doing, you know, when I fall off, that happens. So I gotta pay attention and I gotta get, I gotta, and that's why a morning routine or some sort of routine is really important. I love affirmations. You know, affirmations are kind of hypnotizing yourself, right? Of, you know, I can, I got this, I can do this. Boom, boom, boom. So it's not, that's again, making alignment of myself because when I'm. Not in focus caught an awareness of what I'm doing. Those habits take over and what I wanna have is those hos positive habits take over. They drive me towards my goals, whether it's fitness and personal, whether it's towards business. I want those habits to take me toward those goals. And that takes some training and some practice. But man, is it worth it? Because then I'm working 24 7 on what I say I want versus constantly finding that I've sabotaged myself again. Oh geez, how did I buy that? What did I just do? You know? What did I, oh my word. I gotta start over again. and we all have that happen to us. Yeah. But if you work at it, you can actually have your whole game working towards this vision that you have. We just did a, ended up a visioning weekend with vision boards and writing about our future. So now we're process every morning visioning that for just five minutes, you know, accomplishing those things like they really happened so that when I'm with you, part of me is still working on that. you know, part of me is still working towards that vision, even though I'm not there. It's just like, it's multitasking. I'm having my conscious focus on this podcast. Yeah. But I still have parts of me that are working on my other vision and hopefully not things that are sabotaging it. Yeah. What, what, what a powerful set of ideas. I, I just like, I just really love the idea of identify those habits that are working against you. Identify the habits that you need to build that will be helpful. Those habits become autopilot, so it doesn't even take a lot of energy. They will be just running in the background, working for you, looking out for you but only once you've actually instilled them. And then that requires intention. And then we've got, we've got the different routines and affirmations and different activity a associated with that vision boards, as you were saying, that, that allow those two to connect. And then form this relationship between your, your, your commitment is aligned with your habits, and then it just goes. People say, me, your program is nine months. That's why it's long. It takes a little bit of time to set those things up to set, you know, to break down old habits, to form new ones, to set up those intentions and to, and to get it going. But once you get it going and you keep it going, and especially if you can get a community, a support community with you, which is why I love mindfulness at work, you know, if you can get others that you're regularly dump, dipping in with it's fun. Yeah. You know, it's just, it, it's just the next adventure. It's not like work to me. It's like, wow, watching my dreams come true, watching my relationships flourish, watching myself, you know, deal with something in a tough situation. That's just joy. Yeah. B, based on everything I know, I would rather have a nine month mo, nine month program than a nine week program. Yeah, because you know, we're gonna set on realistic expectations of what can be accomplished, and then it goes back to the two minute meditation versus the 20 minute meditation, right? It becomes unsustainable and the nine month program is actually going to help you build the habits. And once you've built those habits, you are going to, you know, they're, they're gonna be sustainable. You're gonna be able to go. So nine, nine months might sound a lot to a lot of people because, you know, we all want very quick results, but to me is, is a, a much better approach than, you know, trying to buy this magic pill that ultimately won't deliver. If you, if you do end up checking out my book, you'll hear, I call it what's called slow boils and transformational shocks. Those, those powerful weekends, which I love. You know, weekend workshops are a transformational shock. There's a lot of other ones of them. I find it's slow boils of prayer, gratitude, meditation that keep me open and let me embody those shocks over long period of time. If I don't have those six months later, I close back up and it was just a fond weekend, But if I have those practices and then I get in and I come to one of your workshops or something, max and I see this thing, I go. Oh. And I can embody that. And then I put that in my practices daily, and I come from affirmation around it, and I remind myself of it. Then it can become, a permanent part of me, can really be, you know, it can be in my neuroplasticity. It can really get in there and six months later it grows and I go another one and it makes me even higher, you know? But I need those daily practices. Jeff Olson has wrote a great book called The Slight Edge. It talks about these little tiny things. Yep. We do every day. I, I call him slow boils. Yeah. But I got the idea for him. It's beautiful. E easy to do, easy not to do. Right, exactly. I, I think it's so huge. And that's why I say start with two minutes of meditation. Slight edge it man. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's one of my, my favorite all time books. Yeah. We're we're, we're, we're gonna have to do this again because there's, there's so much more. Oh, I'd love to, there's so much more to talk about. Great. I, I wanna try to kind of point out a few of these key ideas that I got at least that they were, you know, shocking to me or important to me. So I'm, I'm gonna go through them, but I wanna make sure that we have a little bit of time for you to tell us a little bit about where people can find you, the programs that you have, your book, because we, I, I think that we are just slightly ahead of the curve right now, right. In, in terms of mindfulness becoming mainstream in business. Mm-hmm. and anyone that's a leader, you, you don't want to be the last one to, to start knowing about it in, in, in utilizing it. Right. So, so if you like it because it's, you know, something that you believe is powerful and transformational, that's my first choice. But if you, you know, it's like one of those things that you're gonna need to have. right? Whether you want it or not, it's, it's gonna be mainstream. It has to be in your business. That's how I really feel about, about something like this. Me too. So let's see a few things. Where do I, where do, where do I even start? There's, so, there's so many great things. So let me start a little bit at the beginning. So I think, you know, you, you talked to us a little bit about this experience of life where you look in the mirror one day and you don't know how you got there, right? You've been hustling, you've been working really hard, but it was lacking a little bit of purpose and recognizing that moment, and then using that energy to really start to transform your life. And then learning how you can change the world by changing yourself. So you working yourself, you work on how you think, act, behave, approach the world and the world around you. Changes. Does. Mindfulness meditation and gratitude, that that's not the woo, the woo woo is the day-to-day distractions. The, the, the things that pull your attention. And what, what really matters is, is focus. And in noticing kind of where, where, where you are without distractions. And, and also recognizing when you've gotten distracted and being able to bring yourself back to, to, to where you are. I love the idea of taking some pitches, right? So you don't have to swing at, at them all. And in business, many times, we talk about opportunities, right? You've gotta let go of the good opportunities so you can focus on the great ones. We are saying it's also in your mind, like in your mind and in your. Just because you got a thought doesn't mean you have to process it and digest it and work it through. You just, you can just say, I'm just gonna let it go. I don't like this thought and be done with it. Yeah. So thanks for sharing. Thanks for sharing and move on. Right? Yeah, definitely. Thank, thank you. Next. So that, that was awesome. We are here for happiness. We're not here for business with a caveat of, you know, business is what is what we love to do and it helps impact the world and makes a better place because at the end of the day, entrepreneurs and business owners will have the biggest impact in the community. And, and, and they really decide how things go. So, you know, it's, it's, it's part it, it's part of this. And then the skills that you learn, you'll take everywhere. So we're teaching our team members about mindfulness at work, but they're gonna. To their relationships, they're gonna take it to their communities, they're gonna take it to church, they're gonna take it with their kids. So what these skills are not just gonna make them better at work, they're gonna make'em better humans all around. And that's leverage. We love leverage in business. That's leverage. I think mindfulness at work is the biggest leverage we can have. I, I completely agree. You talked to us a little bit about the gratitude practice. There's, there's a lot there, but in particular, one thing that was really different is think about what if you didn't have it? Cuz that will kind of shock your system and say, wait a minute. So, you know, like if every day I'm like, yeah, I'm happy for this and I'm happy for that, but if you think for a moment you're like, well, what if I didn't have it? It might help you like recognize what you really do have. And for some people that could be really, really useful. You gave us your priorities, right? Your home base, first base secretary, baseball. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it, and it, and it is very clear that, you know, you put your oxygen mask first. you've got work, you've got you've got family, you've got work. And did I get them correct? And then community. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And community service. Saving the world. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's, and that's the right idea. We talked a little bit about, you know, the, the scarcity mindset that actually gets us working kind of against happiness because it's like, oh, get a job, make money so you can feed yourself. But we fail to recognize that we're doing pretty well, and we should actually, you know, solve for happiness, not necessarily solve for just more money or, or a job. And, and that, that can really change how we, how we view the world. Let's see, ah, a few other things here. I really like the idea of obsessing over the process and being present in the process. You look at the outcomes, you've got your, your meeting rhythms to look at your numbers, and you got your your systems for changing your behaviors and your actions that are gonna align with your goals and plans. But then you focus on your, your activity. You focus on the process, you focus on, on, on, on, on, on execution. And then you, and then you look at your numbers, but you obsess on the process and, and you're present during the process. So as a way of saying, yes, numbers and outcomes are really important, but for short amount of times until you correct your behaviors and then you obsess over the behaviors and being present. Let's see setting the intentions and, and, and ac you know, doing exercise, music, yoga, things that you connect with that also get you in the state of flow, which is also very productive. Right. And, and, and being, being intentional about that and setting the intention for that. Right. And one of the, one of the, one of the last big ideas was. Aligning your commitments with your habits. I mean, I think that we could have done a whole podcast just on that big idea. Yeah, that's huge. And, and the importance of first becoming aware of these hidden habits and then changing them up for the habits that will actually help you become who you want to become and take you to where you want to go. And you st you start small, but you build up on them and then these habits are working for you and you don't even know it. Yeah. I know I've, my must have missed a few things, so is there anything that I would, I wanna know where I sign up for your workshop cuz my, I've learned one thing is that the great leaders are great students and I really feel heard and I wanted to thank you. I, I, I, I don't know if I've ever had anybody in that amount of time get me, so thank you. All right. Well, no, no, thank you. It's, it's been a great conversation so far. I just want to give you an opportunity if there's anything else that you want to share, anything else that I missed? Whether it was in the summary or just something, it's Max, max. You didn't ask me about this. I need to share this. Oh, I think that's enough. I think that's awesome. You get some of that going, you know, do a little bit of it and do a consistent start small and get started. And if you wanna know more, yes, please. Let's profit with presence. Profit with presence coming out March 7th. It's available for presale on Amazon. 12 Pillars of Mindful Leadership. And it lays out a lot of the program that we have in our nine month. You can read through and see what all those things are and, and, and it's set up that you can do as little or as much as you want. You know, you can find, get a, a glimpse of eternity or just start with a small mindfulness practice and get back and get more in it when you'd like to. And our website, living in the gap.org has, you can get the book there or on Amazon. And then anything with our workshop, there's free resources, a book list. Meditation is a 21 day free guide and to mindfulness if you want to get started with it. I'm really up to change the business conversation and I would love your help. All of your help. I think, I think business is way more powerful. It's got way more potential than what we're using it for. I, I completely agree. So, one more time. The website where they can find access to the book, the programs, the newsletter. Living in the Gap spelled out, living in the gap.org. It's a nonprofit 5 0 1 Anything there if you want to contact us, there's a way to do that. So that, that's, that's where we're at. And there's a, there's pi other podcasts on there that I've done, things like that. If you want to hear a little more, there's some longer YouTubes of our teachings. So, excellent. And, and, and, you know, I see your setup, so some of our audience will only be listening, but you've got a great, a great setup and definitely a great audio. So I'm sure those videos are gonna be tremendous for our audience as well. Practical leadership.com, practical leadership.com. That's where you can download the summary of today's conversation so you can keep some of the highlights, some of the notes you can have them with you. If you, if you ever feel a little bit lost, go back to it. Reset your intentions, start some of these practices and kind of get back on the right track. Practical leadership. Dot com. Eric, it's been, it's been wonderful. It's been a fantastic conversation. I think this will be super helpful. I think you know, you're leading a powerful charge. I, I would bet anything that in the next few years, we'll be hearing more and more and more about mindfulness at work. I hope so, in that anyone that wants to be ahead of the curve needs to get into it, needs to understand. It needs to find, find, find out more about how to make it happen, how to make it work for their business. And you know, thank you for, for being here and being such a great resource and sharing your story. Thank you for having me, max. I really enjoyed it. Appreciate it very much. Thank you, Eric.