Sociable - Ebove & Beyond

Company: Ebove & Beyond
Owners: Jennifer Myers-Ward
Year Started: 2003
Employees: 1-10 (Emerging)

Welcome to episode #62 of An Agency Story Podcast, hosted by Russel Dubree.

On this episode, we are joined by Jennifer Myers-Ward, the Founder and CEO of Ebove & Beyond, a boutique agency that focuses on retail space based out of Satellite Beach, Florida.

Jennifer's story is all about building strong personal connections.  Here are some of the insights you'll find in this episode:

1. Building genuine relationships: Jennifer emphasizes the importance of building genuine relationships with clients. She believes in getting to know the client's business as well, if not better than they do. This approach helps create a strong bond and trust, leading to long-term partnerships.

2. Personalization is key: Jennifer highlights the significance of personalization in relationships, whether it's in business or personal life. Taking the time to understand individuals and their needs is the key to building successful relationships.

3. The power of referrals: Jennifer mentions that every employee she has hired came through a referral from someone she knows or keeps in touch with. This highlights the value of networking and MAINTAINING connections.

4. Balancing heavy lifting and relationships: While agency owners have many responsibilities, Jennifer advises against getting too caught up in the heavy lifting tasks. It's crucial to make time for developing and nurturing relationships with clients and industry professionals. Especially for agencies that rely on referrals.

5. Leveraging social media: Jennifer mentions the importance of utilizing social media platforms, such as LinkedIn, to connect with potential clients and industry contacts. She encourages agency owners not to be shy to explore their networks and reach out to people who may be valuable connections.

6. Continuous learning and adaptability: Jennifer mentions that she had to learn on the fly and adapt to the business side of things, such as return on ad spend and profit margins. This highlights the importance of being open to learning, staying updated with industry trends, and being adaptable in order to succeed in the dynamic world of agency ownership.

What did you find insightful or inspiring about this episode?   Send an email at russel@performancefaction.com to share.

Are you interested in a conversation to build specific strategies for your business like the ones mentioned in this episode?

Schedule a 15 minute introductory conversation here to learn more.

Transcript

0:02

Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where we share real stories of marketing agency owners from around the world. From the excitement of starting up the first big sale, passion, doubt, fear, freedom, and the emotional rollercoaster of growth, hear it all on An Agency Story podcast. An Agency Story podcast is hosted by Russel Dubree, successful agency owner with an eight figure exit turned business coach. Enjoy the next agency story.

Russel: 0:40

Welcome to the show today, everyone. I have Jennifer Myers-Ward with Ebove Beyond. Thank you so much for being on the show, Jennifer.

Jennifer: 0:46

Thanks, Russel, for having me.

Russel: 0:48

I am super glad to have you. It took us a little bit of time to get here today, but, what's the phrase?

Jennifer: 0:52

Better late than never?

Russel: 0:53

Yeah, that one. There you go. I like that one better. If you don't mind, start us off. Tell us what Ebove Beyond does and who do you do it for?

Jennifer: 0:59

Ebove Beyond is a 20 year old online marketing agency. Fancy word for helping our clients to attract new traffic, retain traffic, get their brand out there and, of course, generate revenue. We work primarily with retailers. We're talking about Ashley Stewart, KIND Snacks, Dylan's Candy Bar, Republic of Tea, that kind of thing. We help them with acquisition and retention. Getting traffic to the site, we focus on affiliate marketing. That's anything from a blog post to even an article in Cosmo or everybody's favorite is a coupon site and loyalty sites. You're sending someone flowers and you're like, oh, what's the cheapest one? You just go flowers coupon codes, and you're like, oh, they're good. Helping to get our clients in front of buyers when they're buying using coupons or even loyalty sites where you get cash back, that kind of thing on the retention or lifetime value, so now we've got them in, don't ignore them. We do email marketing. You know, anything from not just your, it's Labor Day sale kind of broadcasts, but things more personal to you like, hey, Russel, we noticed you bought this shirt and we have the matching pants, or you bought this tea and you should be running out, don't be left with an empty cup. That kind of stuff is basically in a nutshell.

Russel: 2:05

Wonderful. So if I want an ad in Cosmo or something in Cosmo, I need to come to you. That was my main takeaway.

Jennifer: 2:12

We pitch editorial, so there's no guarantee on that. Yeah, it's interesting, there has become more of a synergy between what you would classically think of as PR and affiliate. I could go into a long story of how that happened during COVID, publications needed revenue streams and so those became a bit more merged. We do pitch organically for our clients. Hey, Dylan's Candy Bar just launched their advent calendars, and then editors pick it up. Hey, that's cool. That's a neat, this, that and the other. So yeah, we can try Russel, we can try really hard.

Russel: 2:42

I appreciate the thought behind the effort

Jennifer: 2:42

We'll come back to that.

Russel: 2:43

Yes. We'll circle back to that. I'm getting better about this because it is such a fascinating question to ask, is what's behind the name?

Jennifer: 2:49

I like that you asked that. I'll even throw in the logo as a bonus for you. I was trying to come up with something back, again, it was 20 years ago. Just to put that in perspective, that was before Google came along. Just let me want to throw that out there.

Russel: 2:58

Pre-Google.

Jennifer: 2:59

It was pre-Google. Everything that was online at that point was like E something, right? E-commerce. E, anything you can think of. I was trying to come up with something like, we go above and beyond. We're not this agency that's just, I worked for an agency for a small period of time and it was a very cold experience to me and I didn't like it. I wanted it to be more about people than check boxes and you putting hours on a time sheet or what have you. I really felt like we would go above and beyond. We were going to do big things, go beyond that. I went with the E bove and Beyond. Apparently Rover uses above and beyond too, Land Rover. I haven't really looked at who was there first, but no, I'm kidding. I went with the E, the Ebove and Beyond. That's what that means. To do that, to me, is a very hands on thing. Again, not to be some mechanical, cold agency as the word can sound like at times. Our logo, I guess it will show up somewhere along the way, but it looks like a swoosh. And I didn't take that from Mikey. It's like my thumb in the paint so it's very hands on and it's going above and beyond. It looks like an upside down shrimp I've been told, but anyway, it's like that. The Pantone color is Carolina blue. I'm a UNC graduate so I had to work that in there casually. It's a huge story.

Russel: 4:00

That's why you have to ask, cause it would sound so straightforward and that's what I've encountered in this, is it sometimes even when it's it's a name and something. There's a whole story of why it's always right.

Jennifer: 4:09

You hope so because I had the company before my kids and so I feel like I really put some time into naming the company.

Russel: 4:15

You definitely put a lot of work into it on so many levels. Let's go back in time before we get into your more current story. What did young Jennifer think she was going to do with her life?

Jennifer: 4:25

Young Jennifer came around in the time of Melrose Place and so young Jennifer was going to be a hot shot at an ad agency. Let me tell you, she so was doing that. I was definitely going to work for an ad agency. That seemed to be my thing. I actually graduated from Carolina in the journalism school with my concentration in advertising. I was going all in. Graduated from college, didn't get the agency job at first. I was actually, this is really going to age me if Melrose Place didn't, I was a bell south Yellow Page sales rep. Definitely wasn't what I was aspiring to do, but it was very lucrative, I have to say, so anyway, I don't think they have Yellow Pages anymore in print.

Russel: 4:58

If it's not, I don't know either, it lasted longer than it probably should have. Let's just say that.

Jennifer: 5:02

Yeah, so I did that. And then I did get a job with an ad agency that paid me all of 18,000 a year. Parents were really excited after that four year degree at Carolina to make that astounding amount of money. Needless to say, that did not go as swimmingly as it appeared on Melrose Place. I was coming in at ground level. Didn't have the best, most enthusiastic, encouraging boss ever. I decided that was not for me. That then took me to being ready to walk out the door and a co worker of mine actually was from Zimbabwe and he had to go back to get a visa. I elected to take that trip with, I was like, okay, I'm really not happy here. I spent some time in Zimbabwe and then from there ended up moving over to London, and got a job with Amazon when they started there, they were book pages, believe it or not, started over at Amazon, if you will, in Europe.

Russel: 5:43

Did you get any early stage Amazon stock by chance?

Jennifer: 5:48

Russel, this is such a painful question. Would we be talking right now? I did. I did get stock, but you have it five years. I even had, I was such a dork, had a spreadsheet. Every time it split I was like, oh my God, I'm making so much money today. Look at me today. And I was ready to go, but sadly enough, my visa expired before my four years so I didn't make it to my five years. Young Jennifer wasn't smart enough to say, hey dad, can you buy out the rest of my stock, please, so I will be an early days, Amazon stockholder? I was like, oh, I can't afford that. You live and you learn.

Russel: 6:17

Next major trillion, startup, you can learn your lesson that you're a part of.

Jennifer: 6:21

Or maybe it's my company at some point. Who knows?

Russel: 6:23

There you go. Do that too. Better idea. When'd you get the idea to start your own business? How did that all get going for you?

Jennifer: 6:28

When my visa expired at Amazon it was really sad. Obviously they were going to send me over to Amazon and Seattle. I actually was fortunate. I won a door desk award, they don't even have them anymore, back in 2000 and it's like for contribution and stuff. I got to fly to Seattle and I met Jeff Bezos, which again, I wish younger me had a little more insight in conversating with said Jeff Bezos.

Russel: 6:49

Back then he's just like a glorified bookseller.

Jennifer: 6:52

Well, we had movies. We had just started doing video.

Russel: 6:54

Oh, really? Okay.

Jennifer: 6:57

I declined the transfer to Seattle and that was a hundred percent weather related. I was like, I am not going from cold, rainy, dark London, and I know what Seattle is, no offense to anybody from Seattle. I'm a sun person. I live in Florida. I decided that, you know what, I'm going to try something different. I moved straight to Florida. I literally went on Monster.com and found a job in Florida. I did that for two years. I was a VP of e-commerce for a company in Florida and Boca, did that for about two years. We did well, we launched the website part of a catalog company, more or less.

Russel: 7:25

No easy feat back then.

Jennifer: 7:27

No, it really wasn't, actually. This was in 2002, so yeah, no, it wasn't an easy feat. We did really well. I would say the company directive was still more focused towards catalog. I felt like I had better opportunity elsewhere. Having worked at Amazon and just keeping up with friends and keeping up with people that I knew in the industry, I was getting phone calls and long story short, a woman from that was actually at JCPenney at the time and we were doing something with her for the catalog and the website ended up reaching out to me along with several other friends of mine that were, hey, you know about that online worldwide web stuff, right? I think so. The situation I was in I wasn't a huge fan of, and it was like opportunity was banging down my door and, I was 28 years old so the idea of doing it on my own, I was like, I don't know what to do. I don't know, but I just did. She's, we'd love to talk to you, so I resigned. Like I said, I had no kids at the time, it was me and my dog and I was like, alright, I'm going to give this a go and if it doesn't work, I'll get another job. But I don't like to fail. I'm quite competitive. Anybody who knows me is probably sitting there going, yeah. In my mind, though, I wasn't going to fail. That was just the way it was.

Russel: 8:25

And so was it just you when you started out, or you had someone else partner?

Jennifer: 8:28

Me and my dog. Just me. I was 28 years old.

Russel: 8:30

What'd you start out selling? What was the first iteration of the business?

Jennifer: 8:33

It's quite similar to now, except I was more of a consultant since it was just me. I would go in and look at what someone was doing in terms of online. January of'03, I started Ebove as its own thing, as me, actually. I would go in and look at what programs they had, email. Again, there was no social media, there was no SMS, it was email and affiliate was still new. Going in and say, hey, is the site set up right? What could we be doing to generate traffic, to increase conversion, that kind of thing. It was all encompassing at the time, and again, it was just me so that's what I did.

Russel: 9:03

What was that like? Obviously you had some experience in tech and marketing and in the ad world. Were you learning fast and furious on the fly of having to be the one woman show or was everything just taking advantage of what you already knew and learned?

Jennifer: 9:14

A little bit of both because I found out that obviously my Amazon knowledge, I always say it was like an MBA and e-commerce because really, it was. When I first started at Amazon, I was on the email team. We were all hands on deck so I was buying the side of tube signs and bus signs for Amazon. We all did everything. I worked when Harry Potter, JK Rowling put the first book out. I worked there and we had to work in the warehouse. We had to take warehouse shifts, it was crazy. I did learn a lot about startup, about email. I also helped with the associates program, which is their affiliate program, which they attempted to trademark, by the way, years ago, and that's when I had stock, Russel, and I was like, yes, trademark it. Yes. Alas, that didn't happen, which actually is okay. It's fine. These days, it's good. I had a lot of knowledge. The business side of things, I would say was interested in that. My dad's a pretty big business guy. I've always been attuned to that kind of thing. I had that knowledge, which was more than a lot of people had, I found when I started helping out, but I did learn along the way when I was working with, Amazon. Obviously it was, like you said, books and video at the time, but I was talking to clients that were in jewelry or in clothing. This was all different to me. I was having to learn on the fly a little bit more about the business part. Return on ad spend and their different margins and stuff like that, that I didn't have to really worry with, that wasn't my job at Amazon.

Russel: 10:24

All this stuff was basically new. Even if you were learning it, so was everyone else. There was no gurus back then.

Jennifer: 10:30

No. I tell people I started before Google and it's, depending on how old they are, I can get this. I'm like, yes, before you just go, hey, Google, who won the world series and whatever?

Russel: 10:39

I'm sure at some point throughout history, we have the, I'm not very good about this, but Crustaceous period, the Jurassic period, there'll be like the pre-Googlian period that we'll just refer to a time in the world. When did things start to take off for you? How long into the business before you're like, oh man we're flying high now?

Jennifer: 10:55

I have to be honest. Because I said I was not going to fail, I was not going to fail. I had to sit down and figure out how was I going to meet? This one person had contacted me. Okay. That's lovely, Jen, but that's not your whole life. How are you going to do this? I basically took money that I had made at Amazon, and this is when it helped me that the British pound at the time was so much stronger than the dollar, cause I came back with the good amount of money I'd made over there. All of a sudden it was a lot more money. I was like, oh, this is really good. It was like investing without investing. I just spent a lot of my personal money going to as many trade shows as I could. I literally got online. It would have been Yahoo search then, possibly AOL, and was looking at any conference I could find that talked about online websites. Anything I could do. I literally made it my job to go to all of them. I had lots of air miles from going back and forth from London to the States to see my family back and forth, very grassroots. I would say, I started working with the first client in January. That February, I attended my first conference and I was hustling. Everywhere I could possibly be, sitting in every session talking to anyone I could talk to. Honestly, that one client was great, but I did pick up clients, and again, it was still me. There was that personal bandwidth piece. I don't like to call it luck. I like to call it, being at the right place at the right time and making something of it, if you will.

Russel: 12:02

Definitely what you could attribute that to.

Jennifer: 12:04

Yeah, so it did take off for me. A couple of years, it was just me. My first hire wasn't even, yes, it was out of, yeah, it'd be great to have someone else, cause I'm not real good at letting go of the reins. I was like, I got this. But I got pregnant and I was like, okay, that's something only I can do. I'm going to need some help here on the other end of this.

Russel: 12:19

A hard thing to delegate, for sure. you had at least a chance to get your feet under you. This might be relevant to maybe how people are feeling about the economy today, what was that like when we had the whole post-dot com crash, but then we had the whole economic crash in the late two thousands. Did that phase you, what was that like for you?

Jennifer: 12:35

I was 2008, 2009. I had my son in January of'08 and my one employee that I had, I remember, she's amazing. I was paying her and not me. That slowed down the income of clients and of me. She subsequently ended up leaving. I was doing everything I could to grab her by the ankles, cause at this point in time, I'm like, oh my God, I'm a mom with a baby. I was a single mom at the time and I was like, okay, this is just a lot. She left, which it was a great opportunity for her. It's the best thing she could have done. Russel, what it did for me was, okay, I'm not giving up. I didn't give up in the beginning. I'm not giving up now. I pulled up my bootstraps and I was like, okay, I know a lot of people in this industry, because like I said, I started in'03, I was good five years into it, and I had been going to conferences. I'm a networking fiend. I started getting in touch with people. Hey, do you need help with this? Hey, I know that the economy's down and this is what's going on with econ, the boom, the bust, the whole, I could really help you here. I'm happy to do a free audit of what you're currently doing. If there's anything I can do to help. Really just started getting the ground running again.

Russel: 13:29

It sounds almost like you were starting over from, maybe not scratch, but back to square one.

Jennifer: 13:34

Yeah. Just knowing that I could do it. I had that, I'm 28 years old with nothing but a dog and me, no fear. I'm like, ah, I fall. I'll get back up. Now there's a little bit more motivation behind it. I was like, I'm not going to fall. This is going.

Russel: 13:44

Let's talk about that for a second. Clearly, networking and hustle has been a huge part of your success. Did that come naturally or is that something you had to train yourself to do?

Jennifer: 13:54

I would say naturally, except I would say, networking is our buzzword, right? That's what we use. We're like, I was networking or I networked. To some people that means sitting at happy hour or after party at a conference or whatever. To me, it's relationships. I was raised in the South, so my mom taught me at a young age, she's no longer living, but instilled in me, I can still remember being six years old and, when we got birthday presents, they were being written down and we were handwriting some thank you notes. You were going to write you a thank you note. You were not going to just, oh, we got it. This is before the days of, hey, let's text you. Hey, thanks. Wrote thank you notes. It was always about keeping in touch with people. My mom had a calendar with every page you turn, had people's birthday cards pre stuck in there. It's insane, but that's relationships. This is before you could cheat and just have Facebook say, hey, today's Russel's birthday. This is thought out. I really learned a lot about caring about people in a relationship and it being a two way street and doing things for people. You get something out of it, not just walking up to someone and meeting them and starting a relationship, thinking, oh, what can I sell them? What can I get from that? You get so much from people if you build that relationship. That part came very naturally to me. The business acumen I hand to my dad, 110%. He's been retired. He was a CIO and now he's a chairman of a board of a credit union down here, but he does not stop. It's my parents. I enjoy the networking. I'm not scared of it. I like meeting people. I like learning about people. I really liked that part of it. I think that lends itself to, like you said, the networking part of our industry or anyone's industry,

Russel: 15:14

What's worked well for you? Cause I think, maybe not everyone, but a lot of people like the idea behind what you're saying, but maybe it doesn't come as naturally or it just feels like a lot to keep up with. Any pro tip or success you've had from keeping up with probably the many relationships you've built over time?

Jennifer: 15:30

Pro tip. I guess I love it, right? I'm in technology. I'm in such a virtual world. My entire team is remote. We all met for the first time face to face literally for our 20 year anniversary back in May, I took everybody went to New Orleans. We live in such a virtual, non personal so to speak world that I love the personal parts of it, even if it is just a text message to somebody or following up knowing that somebody was gonna have a baby. I just enjoy that. To me, that's a very fulfilling part of life that gets lost in the shuffle. When I can pepper it into business, it ignites me. I like that side of things.

Russel: 16:02

Do you keep a lot of notes in a CRM or Rolodex? How do you keep up with it?

Jennifer: 16:05

You're really good. I think we covered, I'm more your Rolodex than your CRM girl. My calendar is still right here. I still like to write things down, but I do keep notes on things. Sometimes I hop on LinkedIn just to see what people are up to that I've known forever, or I'll see an article about somebody or something that reminds me of someone. When I first started out, I would get business cards from all of these different trade shows. Russel, it's insane how many trade shows I went to.

Russel: 16:29

Do you have a count? Are we talking over a hundred?

Jennifer: 16:31

Total between start and now, yeah. Oh yeah. First couple of years, it was literally one a month, if not more.

Russel: 16:37

That is a lot.

Jennifer: 16:37

I was going anywhere I could go to do anything I could do using points and anything, but I would always get somebody's business card. When we were done chatting, I would be like privately with a pen in my purse, writing notes on the back of my business card. Then I would get on the plane and I had little index cards. This is where my mom's going to come in, I'd pull them back out and handwrite. Not thank you notes either. It was always like a little punchy something. Oh, whoever your team is, hope Cowboys win or whatever. When I got back, I'd mail them all out. You'd be amazed, people that I've worked for since then have come hired me to do that. I was like, I used to keep that pinned up on my bulletin board, used it to explain to people how to really make a relationship, or make someone feel like, wow, I got a handwritten note.

Russel: 17:12

That's really cool. That's very insightful, very helpful.

Jennifer: 17:15

Especially now, right? Who gets mail other than a bill? You hope it's a check sometimes.

Russel: 17:19

It's so true.

Jennifer: 17:20

Birthday cards. Again, you get these little movies from Facebook, which is like, oh, that's great.

Russel: 17:24

How much even more powerful the effort of something handwritten today is.

Jennifer: 17:27

All right.

Russel: 17:27

I'm taking notes here. I'm taking my lesson. What's the big focus for you now in the business? What prize is your eyes on?

Jennifer: 17:33

That's tough because we hit the 20 year mark, and if you'd asked me five years ago, I'd have said 20, and now I'm like, oh. We've won a good handful of awards, which is great. I'm not a huge feel my trophy case kind of person. I'm more fly under the radar. To me, the focus has never changed and still is on how we work with our clients, so to speak. Partners is what I like to call them because it's truly the way I've started the company. I built the company and I think what has kept us as successful as we are is getting to know the client, knowing their business as well, if not better than they do. Having them say things like, we feel like we're your only client. To me, that is the best compliment, cause the revenue is going to go up and down. There's external factors, all that, but to say, gosh, we feel like we're your only client. We don't wait for anything. I'm, just after keeping that genuine nature in the agency world. Especially, like I said, we're in such a, virtual world. Thank you COVID for even more virtual than we were before. Keeping that personal touch and caring about a client more than a paycheck or a number. I know that's not a perfectly bullseye answer for you, but I want to keep doing what we're doing as well as we're doing it. That's my goal. I don't want to falter on that. I still love what I do. That is my prize.

Russel: 18:36

Can't argue with any of that. I'd love to get talk through more pointers and tips from all things Jennifer, but I guess we can only make these episodes so long. The last big question I ask everybody is, are entrepreneurs born or are they made?

Jennifer: 18:49

Born. 110 percent born. I've heard both arguments on this, but I'm gonna tell you right now. If you ask me to jump out of an airplane, I am not doing that. I might be risk averse in the business world, but you could train me for a year. Okay, this is how it's going to feel. I'm not jumping out of a plane. I'm not bungee jumping. It's either in you to be an X Games athlete or someone who does that stuff or it's not. I feel like to some degree, that's how it is in the business world. You're willing to take risks there, or you're driven by success. It's not good enough to just do it for someone else, you're not scared to fall on your face because you can pick yourself up and you can do it. You can teach someone that in class all you want, hammer it in their head, but you either have that here or you don't. You can learn parts of it, but to be a true entrepreneur and stand up when you're getting kicked in the shins, punched in the gut, you gotta be built for it. That's my take for sure.

Russel: 19:34

The most confident born answer I think I've ever gotten on the show, which is the lesser of the three options you could say. I love a good born answer. If people want to know more about Ebove Beyond, where can they go?

Jennifer: 19:44

Our website, www.ebovandbeyond.com. All kinds of fun stuff there. Media mentions, client case studies, all you need to know, and then some. Or any of our social media.

Russel: 19:54

Get to know Jennifer. She'll send you something in the mail besides a bill. Maybe depending on what you do, she'll send you a bill too. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Jennifer is absolute pleasure to get to hear your story and everything you were able to share with us today.

Jennifer: 20:06

Thank you, Russel, I really appreciate you having me on.

20:11

We hope you've enjoyed this episode of An Agency Story podcast where we share real stories of marketing agency owners from around the world. Are you interested in being a guest on the show? Send an email to podcast@performancefaction.com. An Agency Story is brought to you by Performance Faction. Performance Faction offers services to help agency owners grow their business to 5 million dollars and more in revenue. To learn more, visit performancefaction.com.

Jennifer: 20:47

Before this term Lobbycon was a thing, it's very frowned upon, when you go to the hotel where the conference is being held. You're not paying to go, you get a room and you hang out in the common areas, but I have to say, I think I was cutting edge at this, PS, because this was 2003 and I would go on and figure out I couldn't afford the tickets. I'm not a huge company. It was just me, no funding. I would go to all of these, hang out in the lobby. When they do all the after things, I was everywhere you could possibly be. The second year I did this, I noticed people wearing badges, right? I did not have a badge. I literally put a piece of paper I cut, there was a pile of badge little holders on a table. I just sneaked one and stuck a piece of paper in it and wrote my thing on it. I would go in with it turned backwards and go to everything. The funny part of this is I was putting my business cards in all the little fish bowls, cause that's what you do, right? I won a rolling computer case. This was bad to the bone back in the day. When you win you go up to the table afterwards. I get up to the table. Apparently once you win, they start looking for you so that they know, put it aside to whoever, what kind of a company. I go up to the table to get it. I'm behind this other girl. I go, oh, I won the TUMI Deluxe. Your name, Jennifer. It was Myers at the time. Two men come walking over from behind the thing. They were like, you're Jennifer Myers. Yeah, I just won. How did you do that? I was like, I put my business card in the fishbowl and they were like, can you come here? I was like, this is great, they're gonna take a picture or something with my bag. Yeah. No, they were not humored at all. They had figured out that I was there and wasn't supposed to be there, but we all had a good laugh. I was like yeah, but this is the second year I've done it. That's pretty good on me, right? But yeah, and don't laugh Russel, but I have email for this fellow to this day, and we always joke about it when I see him. When I do go back to the show, I do pay now, by the way, but when I do go back to this particular show every now and again when I won the TUMI bag that busted me for breaking into shows when I didn't have a whole lot of money.

Russel: 22:29

So many funny and inspiring parts, you got to do what you got to do when you're starting out.

Jennifer: 22:33

Do what you have to do. You can meet people anywhere they are, that's true. Just don't go into the hall, like into the exhibit.

Russel: 22:39

Just don't eat the buffet. How about that?

Jennifer: 22:41

Yeah. Yeah.

Russel: 22:42

Take your own PB&J. How about that?

Jennifer: 22:44

Packed lunch.