An Agency Story
An Agency Story
Why Investing in Your Brand is More Critical Than Ever - Tributary Design Studio
Were you inspired by this story? Got an idea, thought or otherwise? Let us know, send us a text!
Company: Tributary Design Studio
Owner(s): Marielle Balogh
Year Started: 2017
Employees: 1 – 10
Branding isn’t just about looks, it’s about trust, credibility, and making your business stand out. In this episode, Marielle Balogh, Founder of Tributary Design Studio, discusses branding and the tough challenge to stand out to your best customers.
Inside this episode:
- Why a broad range of experiences can strengthen your brand approach
- Why your agency should meet customers where they are
- The innovation needed for growing beyond referrals
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where we share real stories of marketing agency owners from around the world. From the excitement of starting up the first big sale, passion, doubt, fear, freedom, and the emotional rollercoaster of growth, hear it all on An Agency Story podcast. An Agency Story podcast is hosted by Russel Dubree, successful agency owner with an eight figure exit turned business coach. Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel:Most businesses, including agencies, think of branding as a nice to have. A logo, a decent website, and a polished look. But in reality, branding is the silent force that shapes trust, credibility, and how your business stands out in a crowded market. And in today's world where attention is fleeting, getting it right is more critical than ever. Welcome to An Agency Story podcast, I'm your host, Russel. Today's guest is Mario Balogh, founder of Tributary Design Studio based in Portland, Oregon. In this episode, we unpack why branding is more than just aesthetics. It's about building trust at first glance and shaping the way your audience perceives value. We also dive into the hard work of innovation, rethinking how businesses meet customers where they are and how agencies can break beyond referrals to attract and engage clients in an ever changing landscape. If you're ready to take a fresh look at your brand and what it says about you, you won't want to miss this conversation. Enjoy the story. Welcome to the show today, everyone. I have Marielle Balogh with Tributary Design Studio with us here today. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Marielle.
Marielle:Thank you for having me. It's lovely to be here.
Russel:Lovely to have you, and I got the name right, correct? How did I do?
Marielle:You did. You pronounced my name accurately. I know it's a tricky one. It's very European so I understand why you trip up.
Russel:I am one to do that so I'm going to give myself like a 9. 5 just cause you can't be perfect.
Marielle:It'd be a 10 if you could roll your French Rs, then I would give you a 10.
Russel:I did take a lot of French though.
Marielle:Oh, maybe you could.
Russel:It's not podcast show worthy. For, um, pride sake maybe. Excited to have you on here. We're in the winter season here and we were just talking a little bit before and it seems like a fun conversation to start is all things skiing. Sounds like we both have a ski trip coming up and you're going to, where, where are you going skiing?
Marielle:Mount Hood Meadows in near Portland, Oregon, where I live. I just bought a skii season pass my first time ever this year. Excited by that. I hope it's going to be a good year.
Russel:How many times do you need to go to feel good about this?
Marielle:I feel like 10 at least because lift tickets are crazy expensive these days.
Russel:Okay, 10 times. I feel ya. I'm going to Vail next week and taking my brother who's going for the first time so that'll be interesting for him, and then we'll see if my son gets me killed by trying to do all the crazy black runs and and all that stuff.
Marielle:I bet you'll keep up just fine.
Russel:I was like, dude, you got, you got about two out of me and then we're back to the easier stuff. Or if you want to be done in two hours and then call it a day, that's fine too.
Marielle:Just go to the resort and have hot cocoa.
Russel:Yes, I'm continually learning and getting more into the apres ski life. I did not understand it initially, but now I do.
Marielle:Yes.
Russel:I'm excited for you, excited for you to get your 10 ski runs in today, and then excited for my potential survival. Let's get right to the, what does Tributary Design Studio do and who do you do it for?
Marielle:Tributary Design Studio is really founded on the premise of servicing smaller businesses and helping them grow into much larger businesses, if that's their goal, or to just support them and meet them where they're at and where they want to go, which is, you know, tributaries. The meaning of a tributary is a small stream or river going into a larger stream or river. Named the business that because it's just a really wonderful metaphor for the work we do with our clients when they really invest in branding and design long term, in tandem with other marketing efforts and initiatives. It just really empowers them to put their best foot forward and, um, speak to who they want to be speaking to and be communicating the right message visually is what we've predominantly focused on.
Russel:I love a good meaningful name. That's awesome. Tell a lot of thought went into that and unique into itself.
Marielle:In Oregon, there's a lot of tributaries, so it gives a sense of place. Even though we're not only working with Oregon businesses, it's a really nice, um, tie in to our headquarters, essentially.
Russel:Even more meaning. There we go. I'm always a big fan of anybody that helps out the small businesses of the world. That's a, is a very near and dear passion of mine. All right, well, we were already off to a great start here. Before we get all this agency stuff, uh, I'd love to hear what was young Marielle doing with her life, where was she headed, and we'll see how well that compares to where you're at today.
Marielle:I definitely have a winding road path. I don't have, like, a super linear career history, uh, which I used to be very embarrassed about when I started my agency. But, um, over time I've really started to see it as my strength because I, I'm able to see a business from like a lot of perspectives as opposed to just, um, having gotten like a degree in graphic design or something and just having always done that. There's a lot of value in that, but there's also value in somebody who brings, um, different experiences to the table. First of all, I studied anthropology, cultural anthropology. That's a wonderful tie in, unexpectedly, in design thinking because of various perspectives and really acknowledging biases when you're, um, really working with anyone. It translates in so many wonderful ways I didn't expect. It's not the reason why I did anthropology. I just loved studying humans and cultures. That's just like turned out to be a nice bonus that I didn't expect. I definitely did a lot of hodgepodge things out of college as we do when we're trying to find ourselves. I was waitressing on the side. I was doing freelance photography because that was a passion of mine since I was a teenager and then um, just, you know, trying a bunch of things essentially.
Russel:Had you given up on anthropology at this point?
Marielle:I really loved it. I really love my degree but I knew that it was not, after I was like in a certain, um, like, pretty deep in it, I realized that an anthropologist is somebody who travels to rural villages and lives there for two years. It's very, um, thorough. Books about the culture and their findings, and while like young me love the idea of it, I think in execution, it just wasn't like a lifestyle that would actually align in reality for me. I just chose to like take the concepts around it and apply it in other ways. It also made me like a really good writer because I had to write so much and research so much. That's ultimately what led me into eventually doing public relations and marketing. Once I was throwing spaghetti to the wall and seeing what's stuck, I just, that was the first office job I got. I stuck with that for quite some time.
Russel:I'm sitting here thinking Indiana Jones, but then I remember that's archeologist.
Marielle:Yes, yes, which is anthropology too. It's one division of anthropology.
Russel:Okay. Fun fact, you're the second anthropologist turned agency owner I've had as a guest on the show. I don't know if that's a more common theme then.
Marielle:Oh, really?
Russel:Yeah, then one might expect. Omi Diaz Cooper, a long time ago, guest on the show is a, is an anthropologist. I can see where it ties in at the end of the day. I think of this happens to a lot of folks that maybe kind of have a more wayward path that feels like it was, it was not the best path, but I'm going to make an argument that it actually is the best path. I don't know if you've come to, to embrace this yet, but there's a really good book out there called Range and it just talks about some of the downsides where, in our culture, today especially, it's like, you know, you need to focus exactly what you're going to do and only do that at, at this young age. They actually find that that leads to burnout and it actually leads to less success in the long run because of burnout and other things. All that to say, you've, you've taken a good path.
Marielle:I think, out of college too, I just, I traveled a lot. I prioritized traveling a lot and I was, you know, in a privileged position to be able to do that. But as somebody that is in their thirties now, it just has been, um, nice to feel like I accomplished that or I, like, checked it off my list. While it's always a part of me, I think, um, it's not like something I feel like I missed out on. I feel like I'm able to continue to like dive into building and growing the agency and having that be my passion over feeling very disjointed of you know, wanting to do the things that you want to do for personal reasons before, you know, it's essentially too late. It's nice to have had that very varied experience from the beginning, um, before now.
Russel:I'm glad. It sounds like you have come to, you appreciate it. I imagine that has gotten you where to, where you are today. Yes, you parlayed or got into PR and how did you parlay that into, what is it? Eventually being coming and agency owner?
Marielle:At that time when I was applying, and I think this is still true. I think like, entry level jobs are always like your hardest job to get right. They're always looking for people with experience for an internship. Just like, a lot of networking. A lot of, um, applying. I think ultimately networking was the, like the ultimate thing that helped support that first, um, internship. I just went based off of if the people felt, like collaborative and inclusive and kind, and if the clients were interesting and if the location in the city, you know, it was convenient. I just like had this like little list, but ultimately I think I was at the phase where I would have taken pretty much anything. Just because I was shifting from a very like gypsy lifestyle into like, I'm ready to have this office career trajectory. I ended up staying there for four years and, you know, did the promotions things and I started running accounts and, um, doing client relations. There was moments that I, things I liked about it. I did really like the storytelling component. But I didn't like that it was an industry that felt like you're selling stories and just crossing your fingers and hoping that a reporter will write about you and your client. It felt like so much was out of your control for success. Started to explore other options essentially. I had worked closely with some design teams. There was a full design team in-house and I eventually talk to a lot of designers. Try to understand what their trajectory was in a career. When I, like, put that next to a PR career, I just didn't see the same growth or opportunity and kind of had this come to Jesus moment where I was like, okay, so I've told myself that I can't make any money as an artist and I had that photography background. It's a widely cultural, you know, story that we hear, is artists can't make money. I'm forcing myself into a career that doesn't feel aligned, but the trajectory actually looks like I won't make as much money over the longterm and the stress will be a lot higher and the pressure will be a lot higher. I'm like, that would only be worth it if this was like the perfect fit for me and it's not. That was the ultimate moment that made me decide, okay, I want to pivot. Started researching a lot of different company, or not companies, but, educational approaches to ramp up my technical skill set. Cause even though I was a creative, like throughout my life, I felt like I was missing some fundamentals, like software skills. Thought about going to grad school. I was hearing at the time that Germany was doing free education for Americans, and, um, I actually have a French passport, so I looked into, like, other, countries that I could do, because, you know, U.S. education is just so crazy. I ultimately decided I didn't want to take another big pause on my career. I did an intensive model where I did a three month program that you do on top of your full time job. What that meant was at night I was just, like, going to this class and on weekends I was doing homework and creating these projects and that gave me enough of, like, enough tools under my belt that I eventually ended up landing some clients and, um, had some, you know, evening and weekend projects. Eventually I was like, okay, I have too much work right now. I need to, you know, take a leap of faith and quit this job so that I can pull fully put my focus in this direction. That's how it all started.
Russel:Did you ever predict your path would really go down an entrepreneurial route or, or were you just thinking, yeah, I'll, I'll get these skills and that's going to get me a different or better position in the, working for a bigger company or something along those lines?
Marielle:That's a really good question. I definitely didn't think I would be doing it at this phase in my life. I think I thought later in life I could see myself doing it. My dad had a business, not my whole life, but, when, when I was, you know, very small and he has that entrepreneurial spirit, even though he worked as an executive level somewhere. I think the drive is, like, there for me and always has been, but I didn't expect it that soon. I think I was thinking that I would just take on some clients, build a portfolio and kind of make a, a lateral move in a new career because I was pivoting and I didn't want to just have a junior position again and work for years to get up to the level that I was. In a different industry. My strategy was ramp up that portfolio, get it live, apply for something at a similar level, like a mid range position. That just never ended up happening, so I just kept going. I've definitely had years where I wanted to quit or thought about applying, but I just stuck to it.
Russel:For a lot of folks and, and sometimes it can be scary and sometimes not, but lot of times, at least when we kind of make that leap, there's just a lot of excitement from the autonomy and freedom and just this new thing we're doing. But then there is that moment of, like, that, oh crap. Should I just go get a job? Do you have a specific memory of, like, what that first moment was where you're like, man, what did, what the heck did I do here?
Marielle:I never regretted my decision, ever. I thought it was the right move for me, but I think anytime, billables were slow. I lived in San Francisco, which is the most expensive city in the U.S. so I felt it sometimes.
Russel:You mean you didn't just live in a nice big house on Rainbow Row, like, Full House or anything? That's not where everybody lives in San Francisco?
Marielle:No but I think that's kind of what keeps me here is, like, you, you still have those, like, low moments, right? But you just innovate. You're like, who can I reach out to in, like, an authentic way? Who can I check in with? Who can I have coffee with? Something always circles back. I like to say that if you can just hold on, like, a little bit longer, like, a new opportunity is around the corner. When I'm, like, stressed or feeling like things are slow, I try to listen to my own advice and just really, hone in on that.
Russel:That's great advice. You're running an agency. How long ago was this? What are we talking? What year was this?
Marielle:Almost eight years ago.
Russel:Eight years ago. Okay. All right so you've been at this a while. How is what you're doing as a service kind of a core service from when you started evolved to really where you're at today? What are the big pivot moments
Marielle:I think when I first started, I definitely operated as a freelancer, an external contractor and extension of people's teams. I was highly reliable. I would wake up at 5 AM for my East Coast clients and be working in my tiny corner desk in my San Francisco room, not apartment cause I didn't live alone. That entrepreneurial grit definitely had to be there in the DNA. I definitely experimented with collaborating pretty early on. Once I realized that scaling wasn't possible with just me at my desk for that many hours and trying to cultivate new business. I experimented pretty quickly with, uh, outside labor connections. It wasn't until probably five years ago that I launched it as Tributary Design Studio and really rebranded and got really intentional about being a branding agency because I learned that there was two avenues for clients. There's the kind that just needs you to be the executor of all of their content needs, and then there's the kind that needs you to be, like, strategic and think through the entire visual story behind the brand. That's the opportunity where, you know, as designers, we get to be the most creative. I felt like that that side of design really tied in my background the best. I got to just sort of, like, bring in experience from public relations, marketing, anthropology, photography, everything just kind of solidified when I realized, oh, what I really want to do is branding specifically. I considered everything. I considered UX. I considered web development. I considered so many things, but branding is really what stuck for me.
Russel:I love the intentionality behind that of just, not just kind of getting sucked into one vacuum and then just feeling beholden to that, but really saying what are the exploration of options? What matches your passion, your skills, all this experience that you've built? And then really creating a service slash product that matches all of that. I can admit that, you know, there's, there's so many, um, sub genres, I guess you could say to the world of marketing, and we cannot be great at all of them. One of the things that I would say when an agency is, I don't always think we're great at our own branding. But now I appreciate what, what a brand really means and, and, and what that represents. For the folks that might be like me out there, that, maybe put that idea to the back burner, tell us why brand matters so much.
Marielle:Absolutely. There's a lot of reasons, but I would say that the most, one of the most important reasons that businesses should consider is it builds trust with people that you're trying to work with. If you look at any before and afters of people who had no branding and then invested in it, you yourself will have a feeling that is just much stronger and you gravitate towards it for whatever reason. Even non-designers can just tell when something is professionally made or not. I think it is make or break in today's world, branding. There's so many businesses out there and it's like one of the most effective ways to make you stand out from your competitors. It can build brand loyalty over time. Customer retention, also employee loyalty as well. If you have a really good brand and you invest in your brand, um, your employees can be proud of where they work. They will share their event flyers. They will wear their merchandise around the city. A brand is just like a communication tool that, if you don't have it, it's like you're missing such an opportunity to connect on any level with your internal team, your external team.
Russel:Such a great way to put it, there's just so much noise out there and people are just constantly looking for new signals that they can leverage. Is this brand, this company, et cetera, if only slightly more trustworthy than the other options that are out there and just how important that is to have at the you know, we need these passive indicators just as much as we need our words and our kind of more out, outward speaking things.
Marielle:It justifies pricing too. If they're looking at multiple options, whether it's a service or a product, you're not going to be able to charge more unless you have a really dialed in brand.
Russel:Rewind real quick if you're listening and just replay that back because I do think that is important for agencies as well, if we want to command a higher price point. I'm not saying it makes logical sense so you got to throw logic out the window. This is dealing with people's emotions. I don't know if it's like your hippocampus or whatever that back part of the brain that just kind of runs on, um, is not the prefrontal cortex, that they're not making logical decisions here. They're just making quick glances. Is this trustworthy? Is this going to be a good company? And how striking your visual brand can say that to a particular type of client.
Marielle:Grabbing people's attention is really hard online. It's impossible. You get, like, two seconds to make an impression.
Russel:And we know at this point, people don't read anymore online and they are, they're reading less and less, so if we only have two seconds, we can have the most magnificent words in the world, but they're only going to read those once we capture their attention to begin with.
Marielle:And then continue to surprise them over time. Not just that your homepage looks good, but you know, all the print elements you might have, it all connects to that, like, experience that they have with you.
Russel:I don't know why this, why this, this visual came into my head, but right? If you're going on a date and, and, um, and the person, like, checks all the boxes, they look handsome, beautiful, whatever the case, dressed really well. And then you, like, go get in their car and it's, and not to say it's about, like, having a nice car.
Marielle:Oh my god, that's amazing. That's an amazing metaphor. That is so accurate.
Russel:Not to be like, well, I don't feel like I'm being like, um, what's the word, uh, superficial or something like that. It's not along those lines, but it's just the brand didn't match. That can be the signal of distrust sometimes is, wait, I see this, but doesn't line up for this.
Marielle:It's like who are you presenting to be as versus who you actually are.
Russel:Well, this, this is great because I'm actually going through some branding efforts and I'm, and I will just say it's just transformed my thought process. Nothing mind blowing in of itself, but it's just little nuggets to say, oh, you know, just how I'm, a little button on my website, that can be completely different based upon how I think of my brand, obviously from a visual perspective, but even just the words, the words of the button itself. Does it match?
Marielle:Design should be highly functional. Function should always be over looks 100 percent of the time.
Russel:There are some folks that, you know, I think do work more branding. They understand that. But again, this is just even another realm of the agency marketing world that, you know, an SEO company might not be aware of, or, uh, um, you know, other types of marketing companies aren't brand experts. Lesson taken to just really focus on that brand. I want to get into, cause I really like where you're going with this and your business. I'm curious, one, just kind of how you arrived at it, but you're, you're kind of going down this route of, uh, I guess it sounds like from a basis of just innovating, uh, when you think about your, your product or service. Tell me why this idea and thought process came to be, and we'll do a deeper dive into all the nitty gritty behind it.
Marielle:It's kind of tied, um, because we just keep reinventing our services as we see needs shifting or needs not being met or just budgets being constricted for small business clients in particular. There are so many businesses we want to help, and we try to always be at an accessible price point. But accessibility is subjective, right? Sometimes our price point is shocking to people, and sometimes people are like, you should be charging double. It literally has no rhyme or reason. We're a small team and we have costs and we have to stay in business. We have to be profitable, so there's like always this, like, juggling act of like, how do I call in clients that are able to do this range, but not, like, totally leave out people who might need something even smaller, um, than, than getting, like, the, everything from us that I think that we can really make the biggest impact on them. That's where I've sort of strategized on doing these more condensed models that help us stay really efficient so that the client, you know, is condensed into like a week or two week long project. That's like a brand in a week or a web, website in a week. This is a really effective way for us to still meet their needs and produce really high quality work at, like, a lower price point than something that's stretched out for, like, many, many months and their needs are often about needing quick timelines. So if you want quick timelines and have a small budget, it just is the perfect fit for what most small businesses are looking for. Even from there, I was, we've, we've had to raise our prices, you know, because this, um, this economy has been crazy the past couple of years and because of that I noticed, like, less people were converting when we did our typical service and so I was like, how can we condense this even more? And now we've been experimenting with a brand and a set one page landing page, um, in a, in a week. That's for even smaller businesses where they're like, I just need something simple. I need a really elevated landing page. I think that it's going really well so far and it helped convert some clients that were really sitting on proposals for too long. I think that just speaks to, like, needing to keep tweaking because otherwise you're missing out on an opportunity just because they're like a small business or have not a lot of funding. It doesn't mean that you can't be a profitable company. You just have to have the volume of work and be able to, like, tweak, tweak your services to best meet their needs so that you're like an automatic yes.
Russel:I love the thought process. It strikes on so many different levels. I'm trying to think of, like, where to even begin, but, uh, you know, one, just, right? We're just in a space. You just gotta constantly be innovating. If you're not, then, then, the world, the world will pass you by. I think a lot of folks realize that, but the other idea that, I just love that you're, it sounds like you're starting with a point of, what is the value, what is the end goal of ultimately what you're trying to achieve and not being married to how that happens, right? That's even where the magic of the innovation comes from of, here's where we need to get to, where can we optimize, strengthen, or whatever. And that allows us to meet your customers where they're at and have a sort of, uh, I don't know if you think of it this way, but as you were kind of saying, like a ladder of value or a pyramid of value where you can get someone to the stage where they can have some of these lower cost entry points, but then can get them to your higher level services. But it's not just trying to squeeze what you normally do down into a, uh, squeeze it into a, a big package in a small box. It's making the box fit where they're at. I think that's where a lot of folks, where they kind of start to, say, I don't want to work with startups. And it's because they haven't built a product that makes sense to work with startups versus if we embrace why we might not like working with startups, then, and build a product that matches that, then it's not so bad to work with startups. Have you been able to, you know, kind of take some of that lower entry point and then parlay it into, you know, kind of your, your higher level services, or is that a work in progress? What does that look like?
Marielle:Our, like, longest term clients have started, because we've been offering those shorter brand stints for maybe four, three or four years now. Before we were doing that, like, more extensive, like, two month brand process, that's really traditional in the industry. People who had started there, um, a few years ago have come back and they're like, now we're building an app or now we need a website refresh again. Then they'll book, like, a whole month of our time because they have the budget, they got funding, um, and their business change. They're like, um, still fitting in that model, but they need, like, a lot more from us. We were able to just use the same approach, but just give them a lot more of our time. That way they're still able to, cause they're still a startup, even if they're, like, a growing startup, and then they're able to get what they need really quickly still. And then it just becomes more profitable for us because it's repeat business. They have more to attribute to it and we're able to do even more custom things and take their business to the next level. That is the general idea is, like, creating services that support them in the beginning, and ideally they come back to us, like, every year or two years to refresh things because they need new assets or, they just have shifted their business model a little bit. I need to rework some things and we're kind of here at every stage because we also can, um, do ongoing retainer work for bigger clients as well that just need constant content creation. Even though for branding, our specialty focuses on startups. We have the tools to focus on any like scale of business over time, essentially.
Russel:It's such a great way to think about it, too, because, you know, I think sometimes, and I get it right? Is it can be easy in the agency space, bigger clients, bigger budgets. That's how we get more profitable or grow our own agency. Not to say that that's not a way. Yes, there's a natural order of things where the further you're removed from pulling the money out of the person you're working with's checking account, the sometimes less painless it can be, but also bigger companies have a lot of their own challenges to work through and what they expect and, kind of, to be always on or just different things along those lines. It's not always a grass is greener, but if you're really just, no matter what, building the product for that, for whoever that is, to meet their specific needs in a, in a way that makes sense for your business, then that's really the name of the game.
Marielle:I think ultimately branding is the most challenging work out of anything in the design space for in a marketing or business purpose. It feels like bigger clients are always, yes, always sought after in the agency model, and don't get me wrong, they have their time and place and benefit. But in terms of, like, value, I think that our small clients are the ones that get the most value from these small services because it's the most deep strategy work. It's the foundation for their business, um, and it will ultimately set them up for success. We really do nourish those because we believe in that that model.
Russel:You can have impact and, and, and right? You're not just wrought with all the, the political obstacles and, and big companies can't really pivot extensively. So many stakeholders. Nobody wants to lose their job over a risky decision that might be the right decision, but, but risky decisions that don't go as exactly planned, lead to, you might not having your job anymore. Some folks just don't want to do that. As you're going about this, I mean, you know, I definitely see the path. I definitely see the value. I think it's a great path, but what are the not so glamorous parts of it? Or what's the obstacles or challenges you're running into as far as implementing this into your business?
Marielle:Maybe a common response to get, um, but I think we do prioritize our visuals really well. We are due for a rebrand, but you know, everybody who looks at our site would be like, it looks great. They wouldn't know the difference, but I think just ongoing marketing efforts so that more and more people, because we are a volume based business model in a sense, like, constantly it's running on new business as opposed to, like, repeat business. Repeat business does happen, but because it's a small business model, it's, like, a slower scale than a bigger company that would have many, many, um, needs throughout the year. So in order to continue to and remain profitable, have to keep always calling in a large volume of clients. Sometimes that can be harder than other times and we've been largely referral based over the years, um, because I like to think our work is very high quality and people notice, but at the end of the day, uh, I'm always working for strategies to automate some leads. I'm definitely experimenting with different models there and I always am. I hope in 2025 is when some of those things start really converting. Our contact forms are just, like, the volume of them are just coming in a lot more. Because everything else is set up, the processes are set up, the talent is set up. I believe in the team so much and all we need is just to, like, automate the bookings and then we would be smooth sailing.
Russel:We could turn the rest of this conversation into a seven part series and I think we might still, um, not be able to fit enough conversation in there to, or too much conversation to fit in that, even. But that's a clear obstacle for a lot of agencies, is breaking beyond that referral wall. To your, what you're saying, as far as the painter's house is never painted. Many agencies have set themselves up, that, you know, to be a referral based receiving agency and you, you're really ground zero in just in terms of what your sales process looks like and, and planting these seeds as it sounds like some of the work you're doing. We're just so used to almost this instant gratification model of, uh, getting a referral and just, being able to have a good conversation and turning that into a sale, but we're not quite able to do that when we talk about a lead generation mechanism along those lines.
Marielle:I've tried literally everything. I've hired business development people, I've invested a lot in social media and email marketing and just Google ads. It's definitely kind of like pulling different levers and seeing what, what's working type of thing. I think this year we did better than other years in terms of people finding us, which is exciting, but I really hope to just dial that up in the next year.
Russel:I think it speaks to it, it's, it's the kind of work that, just no different when you plant a seed, doesn't, you don't see the, the sprout tomorrow, uh, per se. Depending on the types of seeds they are, you might not see them for a while, and there's rarely this magic blow up moment where you can just visually see it all come together. But from my perspective and working with folks, I think, I think you're on the right path of, you know, um, building products that can meet people at different levels, really focusing on your own house, your own brand. That's such a strong foundation. Then it is the, the engineering-like experimentation process of finding the different levers that get people attracted into, into your business and then nurturing them from there and just that ongoing, ongoing process. It is not easy work by any means.
Marielle:And I think innovation, similarly to how you innovate for services, it's like innovating how to market your own business is, it's like a similar muscle, I think.
Russel:It is. I talked to folks a lot of this about as well is, you know, you can probably ask any agency, right? How much time have you spent working on your systems, processes, ways of doing work on to deliver the work? And then you turn that question around. How much time have you spent doing that on your sales side of your revenue generation side of the business? I imagine it's, like, a 90/10 ratio in most cases for most folks and we can't expect magnificent results until we've now put a, as much or similar, maybe more effort onto the, onto the front side of things to get, you know, this kind of utopia world that you talk about where we just have a lead generation machine that just works, works like we all want it to work.
Marielle:I also just think it doesn't exist. I think there are things you can do to really set yourself up for success and optimize but, like, no matter what, things are going to ebb and flow. A business is never hands off.
Russel:I think there's a medium.
Marielle:Are you going to counter? I would love to hear you counter.
Russel:Marketing is kind of the first thing that gets cut in the world when the economy turned south we would have to band together really well as an industry to probably fight that notion, so let's just say that's a norm we have to deal with. But really what that means, I think in a lot of cases is just, just the clients or who's spending their money just gets a little stingier, so they're looking for more clarity around, if I'm going to spend money, is it going to work and be valuable? That probably just says, as agencies, we just have to get really good, if we can get good before the downturn, about proving our value, showing our value, making that very unequivocal about what we're going to provide businesses when they write us a check. That's hard work. I think everything you're kind of saying, it's hard work. It's extremely hard work. Anytime we see something that looks like good marketing, we cannot see all the little levers and widgets and gadgets that have worked effectively behind the scenes. It is extremely hard work. But it can exist.
Marielle:Yes. I agree with, with time and a lot of effort, it can. Otherwise, what's the point of, of doing all this work?
Russel:It makes a good point. I think generally come across, agency owners are smart people. Smart to run a business, period, I think those are the smartest people in the world that've done things like yourself. If we go back to that time ratio, if you spend as much time of it trying to figure that out as you do on the delivery, you will get there. It's just, can you get there to spend that much time on it? I think that's the challenge that a lot of folks end up not having enough.
Marielle:I love that perspective and it feels very optimistic. Thank you.
Russel:What are you trying to achieve ultimately?
Marielle:I really believe in the small business community. Portland, Oregon is a place that really values small businesses as well, and when you have a thriving small business community, you can like really feel it in, in wherever you live. I think of, like, the huge businesses of the world, like, take over our markets and our, like, shops and restaurants. We lose personality and we lose diversity and we lose creativity. To me, having a really supportive model for small businesses so that they can stay successful and grow and reach their goals will ensure that we all have access to all that they have to offer, which essentially improves our communities, right? Why would you want to just sit in your house and be on Amazon all day when you could go walk down the street and support a local business? It's important to do both. I understand the convenience, but, uh, if all those stores shut down, like, you would lose access to a wonderful experience in your, in your own neighborhood. That's why I love doing this work for that particular audience.
Russel:I hope you're a billionaire someday.
Marielle:Oh, a billionaire for small businesses.
Russel:I hope you do everything you just said and you're a billionaire because of it because that notion is, is I think so important. I was having this thought the other day of just, where dollars go is where it flourishes, right? If we're sending our dollars off to headquarter, Amazon headquarters, That is what is going to flourish. If we spend dollars with our neighbor, with our, within our community, as close to our circle or realm as possible. That, by nature, will flourish. That is another form of investment is, is handing our dollars around, that will come, that will actually come back to us, and in some form or another, if we need to be selfish about this. And to that end, it might be a little more expensive, but, but it, but it's worth it if we can get that message across.
Marielle:Buy less, but higher quality.
Russel:And buy local, and everyone, everyone you know will benefit, uh, in the long run. Alright, if we can get enough people to listen to this podcast, episode, then maybe we'll, we'll, we'll change the world just by this conversation.
Marielle:The world with accessible branding.
Russel:That too. First billionaire agency owner through small business accessible branding.
Marielle:I love this.
Russel:I can't wait.
Marielle:Really about more Tributary.
Russel:Yes, there we go. All right. One more big question for you, Marielle, is are entrepreneurs born or are they made?
Marielle:I think it could go either way because there's a lot of people who are born for it, but don't have the environment that helps them grow into the entrepreneur that they can be and vice versa. Sometimes people aren't born with it and it scares them, but with the right resources and tools they can, and support, they can grow into a really great entrepreneur. Maybe not like a traditional one that's, you know, very public facing, but, maybe a shy one that has a lot of value in other ways. I don't think it's one or the other. I think it could go really either way. I would say if I had to choose, I would probably say made because it's so dependent on environment. And, your life circumstances, really, and your interests, and, yeah, your journey.
Russel:Sounds like 60/40 made maybe, or maybe more. If people want to know more about Tributary Design Studio, where can they go?
Marielle:They can go to our website, which is tributarydesign.com. Our Instagram handle is tributary.design and you can reach out to us anytime. Hello@tributarydesign.com and follow us. Say hi. Love to hear from you. I think we forgot to talk about it, but launched a template shop this year for brands. If you are interested in any, like very low stakes branding, you're welcome to check out that shop as well which is just tributarydesign.com/shop Those are people who are just not ready to engage with the designers. That's another tool we've been experimenting with this year.
Russel:I love it. Well, if you weren't inspired by the previous part of the conversation, go check it out, um, folks, and I know there's someone listening out here that could use a little more focus on the brand, outward looking brand of their agency. Start somewhere. Wonderful conversation, Marielle, appreciate you taking the time to share, uh, so many wonderful parts of your journey, the lessons learned and, and love the work you're doing. As I said, I hope you will, no. You will become the first agency billionaire working with small businesses, and it's only a matter of time. Really appreciate you sharing everything with us today.
Marielle:Thank you so much for your time. It was a really fun chat.
We hope you've enjoyed this episode of An Agency Story podcast where we share real stories of marketing agency owners from around the world. Are you interested in being a guest on the show? Send an email to podcast@performancefaction.com. An Agency Story is brought to you by Performance Faction. Performance Faction offers services to help agency owners grow their business to 5 million dollars and more in revenue. To learn more, visit performancefaction.com.
Marielle:When I would say probably year three of our agency, um, there was a conversation with my best friend to have her join the business. She's based in LA and, uh, she landed a piece of business for us. We had a consultation meeting in person and leading up to that, she had some, like, stomach pain and everything. We didn't think much of it, but she increasingly was in more and more pain, but sat through the entire meeting and we, um, it was kind of like a very old school meeting because we printed a lot of collateral to showcase our work. I brought in like this binder. I've never had a meeting like that other than that time, it was very formal. She just rocked the whole meeting and within a few hours, she ended up having to go to the hospital because she had pancreatitis.
Russel:Ouch.
Marielle:Yeah, I think that same weekend we were supposed to go to Mexico on vacation together and I was, like, debating if I should wait for her or, or what. It was just a whole unveiling of unfortunate circumstances, but man, is she not, like, the biggest badass to sit through, a two hour meeting with pancreatitis and not even remotely mentioned how much pain she was in, because that is a very painful experience.
Russel:I don't know. I haven't had that personally, but I can imagine. What a trooper and just shows how, how, how tough agency people are.
Marielle:I know, right? Geez. I wish I could speak to myself being as tough, but I'm not.
Russel:I'm sure if you would have had pancreatitis in that situation, you would have gotten the job done.
Marielle:We'll see. TBD.