An Agency Story

The Ice Cream Trick That Funded an Emmy-Winning Agency - Twelve Legs Marketing

• Russel Dubree / Ralitsa Carter • Episode 140

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Company: Twelve Legs Marketing

Guests: Ralitsa Carter

Year Started: 2018

Employees: 11-25

What do ice cream, spreadsheets, and an Emmy have in common? In this episode, Ralitsa Carter, Co-Founder of Twelve Legs Marketing, shares how financial discipline, intentional growth, and creativity built her agency from the ground up. If you're an agency owner chasing sustainable success, this episode is your speed.


Key Takeaways

  • The financial rule they follow every month (and reward with ice cream)
  • Why slow, intentional growth beat chasing fast scale
  • How a passion project became an Emmy-winning mini-doc

Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where we share real stories of marketing agency owners from around the world. From the excitement of starting up the first big sale, passion, doubt, fear, freedom, and the emotional rollercoaster of growth, hear it all on An Agency Story podcast. An Agency Story podcast is hosted by Russel Dubree, successful agency owner with an eight figure exit turned business coach. Enjoy the next agency story.

Russel:

What do monthly finance reviews, a conservative budget, and ice cream have in common? They are the not so secret ingredients behind building an Emmy winning agency. Welcome to An Agency Story podcast. I'm your host Russel. On today's episode, I'm joined by Raltisa Carter, co-founder of 12 Legs Marketing, a digital marketing and video production agency based out of Colorado Springs. Releases shares how financial discipline, a love for storytelling and a global team structure, have allowed her and her partner to grow sustainably even during unpredictable times. We also talk about the moment their passion project turned into an Emmy win, the lessons they've learned about leading with purpose, and yes, why ice cream is part of their monthly business ritual. You will walk away with a fresh perspective on growth that doesn't require burnout or massive risk, and how staying grounded in your values can be your agency's greatest competitive advantage. So grab a scoop and enjoy the story. Welcome to the show today everyone. I have Ralitsa Carter with Twelve Legs Marketing with us here today. Thank you so much for being on the show today Ralitsa.

Ralitsa:

Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to talk to you.

Russel:

The pleasure is all mine. Real quick, actually, you know what, Before we get into all this agency stuff, we were just chatting. You're in the Colorado area. We are chatting about skiing and the holiday break and all that. Are you a skier? Do you love the snow? How do you like living in Colorado?

Ralitsa:

I love Colorado. I love living in Colorado. I do love the snow. Not a fan of the bitter cold but comes with the territory. I used to be a skier. I'm now a snowboarder, but I'm kind of thinking whether I should switch back to skiing, so time will show.

Russel:

All right. That's the real battle in the world of skiing is skiers versus snowboarders. Where do you sit on that? Are you like the mediator in any of those conversations? What does that look like?

Ralitsa:

I tend to be the mediator in many conversations. I've been scrutinized for so many years. We're switching from skiing to snowboarding and how much snowboarders, you know, scrape the snow off of the, the, the tracks and all that. But my main reason for switching was really the comfort of the shoes, to be fairly honest with you.

Russel:

Oh, right. Oh, I feel that. I feel that in my soul.

Ralitsa:

Yep. Anyway, I am, I am contemplating switching back. We'll see how it goes. It's getting harder and harder with age. Take those falls on my behind.

Russel:

I think that's, that's my hesitation to do snowboarding for, for a hot minute. My son's a snowboarder and I'm a skier. We traded at the end of one day and just kind of down at the, at the bunny hill side of things, and I think I lasted about two minutes trying to snowboard, fell in some awkward position and was like, you know what? I, I don't know if my body could survive learning this, so we'll stick to skiing, but the whole boots thing, man. I would pay a very large sum of money for someone to invent very comfortable ski boots.

Ralitsa:

I am surprised that nobody has to be fairly honest, but hey, maybe a a, an opportunity there for business.

Russel:

We need like the military to really wanna invest in ski. But it seems like so many great inventions come out of the, the military world of when they go, wanna spend a bunch of money on something. If there's any generals out there listening, maybe they can, um, maybe they can make this a priority in, in the budget, but, alright. That was a fun conversation. Let's skip back to Twelve Legs Marketing. What do you do and who do you do it for?

Ralitsa:

At Twelve Links Marketing, we, we strive to map or, or match rather, creativity with strategy. We specialize in video production and digital marketing. We have a portfolio of a variety of clients, to be fairly honest with you. From the start of the, you know, initiation of the agency, we've developed a portfolio that's not necessarily in one niche. Over the last six, seven years, we actually developed a dedicated team to the rental industry. And when I say rental, that includes heavy equipment, tools, party and events. I can dive further in if you'd like.

Russel:

Yeah, no, we'll go way deeper into that. But, uh, I love that. Very cool space and I don't think you dropped it, but, and we will get to this later as well. You didn't say Emmy award winning, uh, any, anywhere in there. You're just being humble?

Ralitsa:

I am being humble. Yes. We have an award-winning video department. We won our first Emmy after six or seven nominations before that, just a year and a half ago. And We're super proud of it and actually I can, I can show it to you right here, boo yaa.

Russel:

Oh, oh, look at this. I have never seen a genuine Emmy before. This is a real first. This is a show first. This is a Russel first. That is beautiful. Thank you for that. That is awesome. Congratulations. And, and I mean, Just getting an Emmy and then you said six or seven nominations. That is incredible unto itself. All right, well, we're gonna have to figure out all the secret sauce that that's allowed you to be able to do that. But before we do that, I wanna hear about young Ralitsa and what was she trying to do with her life? Who did she wanna be when she grew up? Go back to like kindergarten. I don't know. Something a way, way back, a long time ago.

Ralitsa:

Kindergarten probably wouldn't be very telling of who I want it to be, but, um, I've, um, so I've lived on three continents, traveled a lot, been very fortunate to have an extremely supportive parents, family in general, when it came to my, to choosing my profession. Initially I was preparing to be an architect because I love mathematics and I love drawing. But then I absolutely by accident met somebody who was getting ready to apply for animation school. That kind of piqued my interest. I found a world in which you could draw and create life and be behind the scenes, behind the camera,'cause I don't like to be in front of the camera too much, so I pursued my education and career originally in graphic design and animation. I worked in that field for a few years, started my own studio, and very quickly came to realize that in art school they don't teach you much business skills. Trying to run my own animation studio was an interesting experience.

Russel:

Is that why there's so many starving artists out there is because they're just not teaching any, any business programs in art school?

Ralitsa:

You know what, there, it, it could be, and gosh, don't quote me. It very possibly could be when you create art, you really create with your heart and every piece is your baby. It's very hard to sell yourself in a professional manner. So yes, it's possible that business skills lacking in art school, have something to do with that. But anyway, fast forward jumped up on from Europe to the US to do my master's degree. I was super fortunate to strike a job with an awesome agency outta LA. Had great mentors, worked on fantastic accounts, and that's really what got me started in the digital space. It was a serendipitous alignment of events.

Russel:

Wow. All right. We're gonna come back to that, but you said you lived on three continents. Where have you lived and, and, and give us the goods or where, where, where should we be suggesting people to visit or even live?

Ralitsa:

That's very subjective. Where should you visit? I'm originally from Bulgaria, Eastern Europe. In Europe, I've lived in Bulgaria, Germany, Italy, and the UK. And then, uh, with my parents, I actually had the great opportunity to live in Pakistan, in Asia. I've traveled throughout Asia quite a bit as well. Pakistan has a very bad rep in the media. I have very warm feelings. We met great people and we still stay in touch with a lot of the people we met and knew there. I'd recommend if you're brave and you're open-minded to possibly visit. But uh, yeah, so Asia, Europe, and now the US.

Russel:

What's your favorite spot? And you, you don't have to say the US. What's been your favorite so far? Were you saying Pakistan? Was it Pakistan?

Ralitsa:

My favorite. No, no, I wouldn't say it was Pak, Pakistan is definitely an experience. I love the food, definitely an experience. If I could pick, and it's a battle between two places, if I could pick where to live, one would be the Caribbean. I just love the warm waters and white sand beaches, and the other one would be Italy. I am a big, big fan of Italy.

Russel:

Trying to get my wife and kids to move to Italy and it's just not going well. On the dream bucket list.

Ralitsa:

Oh, well. Can you start with a shorter period of time, a couple of months?

Russel:

Not wrong. And at that point, I would just be like, kidnapping, be like, by the way, kids, I already sold our house at home and, um, you know, there's nothing to go back to. So guess what? We're living in Italy. That's not a bad idea. Thank you for that. We'll work on that. Well then, how many languages do you speak? I gotta know this too.

Ralitsa:

Oh yeah. Fluently, I only speak two languages, Bulgarian and English. I speak a little bit of German. I studied Italian. But yeah, fluently is just those two. In my family, my sister took the language strength. She's the one who mastered quite a few languages. I'm kind of the ordinary mortal.

Russel:

All right. Can you say, welcome to An Agency Story podcast in Bulgarian?

Ralitsa:

Story, uh, Agency Story Podcast. Let me do this again. Dobre doshli v An Agency Story Podcast

Russel:

Love that. And I can only assume it's correct because I know zero words in Bulgarian.

Ralitsa:

I promise.

Russel:

I trust you. I don't wanna anger any other Bulgarian listeners we have here. All right. Well, let's circle back to the agency life. You've had a wonderful career, traveled all over the place, and sounds like it primed you and sounds like you even had some of your own things going on, but all prime to tell us how the origins of Twelve Legs came about.

Ralitsa:

The origins of Twelve Links Marketing came about really from realizing between myself and Jason that we came to a point where we both had corporate jobs. We were doing great, fantastic employers, great opportunities, but on both sides, him and television me, um, on the marketing side of things, we saw opportunities to do things better and ultimately to make an investment of our own and ourselves. It was not an easy decision to make because for anybody who has started a business and kind of jumped from being a full-time employee with all the benefits that come with that to running your own thing, you know, the risks are not small and the adjustments you need to make are not small either. But it really came out from both of us being passionate for each of our realm of work. Seeing an opportunity to pair our strengths and, um, just being in a situation where we could afford to start a business, see how it goes. So far, knock on wood, it's been the right choice for us.

Russel:

You got an Emmy, so, um, it seems to be,

Ralitsa:

We got it. Oh my gosh, yes, we did.

Russel:

Yes. Good decision. As I understand it, you guys, you know, I mean yes, talked to so many folks and that, that whole risk piece. Some folks wanna walk right up to the door before they'd make that leap. Some just say, screw it. I'm jumping in it. But as I understand it, you guys kind of staggered your leaving the corporate world a little bit. What was that like? And I, I believe you were the second one to jump on board, so did you have some jealousy there? Just tell us kind of how that, how that transition worked out for you guys.

Ralitsa:

Great question. So yes, Jason was the first one. He officially started Twelve Legs Marketing. He was the first to dive into it right away. The transition itself, so for full transparency, uh, apart from business partners, we're also partners in life. We're a married couple, so it came down to, you know, running the numbers and making sure that we could afford that change of pace. Jason started the business on the video production side of things and um, he's just super talented. I really have nothing more to say. He's very good at networking, started developing a portfolio of video clients, started smaller initially and then grew that portfolio. For about a year and a couple of months, he was full-time in Twelve Legs Marketing. I was developing some of our digital portfolio on the side, uh, while keeping my corporate job. I'm not saying that people who are fully employed should have side gigs. That's, I think, what a lot of people do, so as long as the two don't influence negatively each other, you're good. But yeah, was there jealousy? Yes. There was at times jealousy. I have to admit, I'm human. It was really the last few months, which were extremely, uh, challenging for me just from a personal standpoint because I had to stay focused on my corporate job because that was my full-time employer, while knowing that the transition was coming and I was truly excited about it. I just wanted to give my whole heart to Twelve Legs Marketing and, and yeah, it, it worked out.

Russel:

Yes. Clearly. so When you were like looking, I mean, did you guys have a certain threshold? You're like, okay, when we get here, or, or even just set a date, hey, by this date, you know, kind of far off just to give yourself a goalpost, or how did you really know what, when that time was gonna be right for you to actually make that transition?

Ralitsa:

That's also a great question. I am a lot more prone to analyzing every little detail. Jason is a little bit faster to make decisions and just take risks. It was really about crunching down the numbers, making sure that we knew what our bare minimum expenses were. And once we were able to bring that from the business, was the time that we could afford for me to join full-time as well.'Cause we knew that if we could cover our foundational needs, then it was only upwards and onwards from there. So it was numbers.

Russel:

Numbers, numbers, numbers. Now what happens a lot, right, and there's just all that excitement and that rigor that it takes, like, all right, can I actually pull this off financially? And then I will say, some folks out there like to, like, to forget this whole numbers part. Did any of that work help you just as you were running and growing the business and even maybe kind of past the early stage of just that attention to detail when it, as it relates to numbers?

Ralitsa:

Yes, absolutely, yes. The way we manage our personal portfolio, financial portfolio and our business financial portfolio is with a lot of discipline. It's really easy to get excited and just start overspending. Especially as a new business, you have so many needs. You need software, you need employees, you need processes, you need somebody to consult you on how to do things. You need marketing dollars, right? It's so easy to start just spend, overspending, um, not thinking through, well, what happens if you run into a tough situation. So truly the way we've structured, our, you know, from a financial standpoint, Twelve Legs Marketing is we always have a threshold of three months to cover all of our expenses for the business. And then each year we put aside, aim to put aside about 30% into that fund and then keep 30% for investments. Could have we grown faster if we spent more money? Yes. But that would've increased our risks tremendously as well. So we've always taken a slightly more conservative approach and I think it's just, um, uh, had benefits for us. We've never taken a loan for the business. It's been good.

Russel:

Are you using, I mean, some folks, you know, that sounds similar, maybe not exactly like a profit first framework or where did you get this savvy of just how to approach your, your, the, the financial aspects of your business?

Ralitsa:

This is gonna sound very childish, but from my mom and dad, honestly. In Europe, uh, especially at the time when I was growing up, everything was cash based. You either had the cash in your hand and you could spend it, or guess what? You couldn't spend it. I think that financial discipline came on from a very early age. And, you know, I observed how my parents managed the books for the family and that transitioned into my way of thinking and methodology. I'm just very grateful'cause Jason has been very open to those type of recommendations,'cause in the US it's a little bit of a different approach to where credit is used a lot more. Which again, can have a lot of positives and I'm not fully against it as long as you do it smartly. It just came from my childhood and where I grew up.

Russel:

I know for sure, I mean, I, I think credit card and just the digital banking system period, right, has caused us to spend more. I remember the days, I'm, I'm old enough that I had to balance a checkbook when I got my first account. And so if I spend, I, I knew that I, you know, right, you couldn't go over back then there wasn't really even a lot of overdraft type situations back then for, uh, for a young student account. You just had to be prudent in tracking and watch your dollars and then now you don't. I mean, you should, but you don't.

Ralitsa:

Absolutely. It's all about instant gratification and, and the system makes it available.

Russel:

All right. Then last question on that front, I mean, like, any tools you use out there or anything that, that just helps make that process easier for you? Or is it just good old fashioned Excel and, and, uh, and grit?

Ralitsa:

The good old fashioned Excel is definitely part our daily lives. Not going to make that up. For the business, we have QuickBooks. We make sure that we review our expense reports on a monthly basis. We if, you know, make sure that if there's opportunities to optimize expenses, we're on those. It also allows us to make sure that we're not, you know, for example, paying for licenses we don't use. Uh, staying on top of our profit loss reports. Really just having grit in sticking to reviewing your numbers, which can be very tedious and boring, boring on a monthly basis, but it helps.

Russel:

Any way to make that fun? Do like a wine night or you just, you just grin and bear it and say it's numbers time, let's, uh, let's get this done?

Ralitsa:

We go out for ice cream. We really do, yes sir.

Russel:

Okay. There you go. See this, this is what I love, right? This is not weird if it works kind of stuff like, you know, we gotta find our incentives however we can to do some of these things that, yeah, aren't exciting, aren't sexy. But they're so important. One of the very common threads of so many agencies I talk to that kind of get past the struggle phase and call it the success phase, is that they understood their numbers and they took the time to spend with their numbers at, at not just a cursory level. What did we bring in and what did we put out, but what are the details behind that? How do we make meaningful decisions from looking at that number? I love that detail of do it and go get ice cream after or whatever your, your vice is of choice. That's beautiful. Wonderful insights there on the financial front. Now I've gotta understand more about how, how does one win an Emmy? Tell us just a little bit about the process. Like how do you find out? What was it like? Did you get to do an acceptance speech on the stage? Come on, tell, give us these details.

Ralitsa:

The show itself, the award show is, is really emotional and it's, it's very exciting. It's a red carpet event, um, it's a black tie and whatever, fancy dress for the, for the girls, right? We have more options than the boys usually. The way you find out is you, so you apply for an Emmy award amongst everybody else within your region, and you receive a formal letter from the Emmys telling you, hey, you've been nominated and then you attend this glamorous event. Then you, you keep fingers, toes, legs crossed, everything, everything, everything until your category comes. They present everybody who's been nominated in the category and they announce the winner. Obviously there's a moment of hold on. Did I hear this correct? Did they really say, uh, you walk up to the stage, you receive your award? The show goes pretty fast paced, so you know, you don't do a speech on the stage, but to be fairly honest, it's just enough to hear your name announced and to grab the shiny awards that's waiting for you, and then obviously celebrate the night away with your team.

Russel:

Very fair. What did you win it for? What was the project?

Ralitsa:

The project was actually with a local artist, um, in Colorado Springs. She actually started her arts business in Santa Fe, New Mexico, moved to Colorado Springs a few years ago. She has this extremely interesting condition, uh, where when she hears music, she sees different shapes in front of her. That's what she paints. The piece that we produced is a, is a feature, it's, it's a mini documentary, uh, called I Paint Music, and it basically showcases her art. It was tied to, um, actually an exhibition she had coming up. The timing of everything worked out very well. That was it. Again, Jason is super talented, so of course there was cinematography that happened behind the scenes. There was post-production that happened afterwards. But I would say the key is finding the stories that stand out, that not your everyday stories, and then being able to tell the story itself in a strong enough way to either revoke an emotion or make a statement. And that's what he was able to put on the screen.

Russel:

Wow. So was this like a client project or just like a passion uh, project on the side you guys did?

Ralitsa:

A little bit of both. We do work with a lot of artists in our community. Actually, during Covid, we started a series, um, Elevated By Art, and the whole idea was, uh, so during the pandemic, one of the mostly impacted from a business standpoint group were artists across the board, not just in Colorado Springs. We wanted to just drive awareness of how art helps us overcome difficult situations. In that specific case, we featured a lot of artists and what they were doing throughout our community to just bring the spirits up during a very tough time when we were not allowed to be normal, right? Or be out and about social. From there, we continued staying involved in the arts community and telling stories. That's why I'm saying it is a passion project to a certain extent. But Karen Mosbacher, the artist with whom we produced I Paint Music, uh, also is a client of the agency. It's a mixed relationship there.

Russel:

I gotcha. Hey, there's nothing wrong with win-win situations, right? Passion projects turned client projects turned Emmys. If we can make multifaceted wins in this business, then we're doing pretty well for ourselves. Where does one stream this? I gotta go watch this now I'm, I'm very just fascinated by the concept itself.

Ralitsa:

Our YouTube channel is probably the easiest way to find it. Twelve Legs Marketing, uh, all spelled out. We have a playlist with award-winning videos, so it's towards the top, if I'm not mistaken. And then our website as well, of course has it too.

Russel:

Okay. I paint music. Is that what it's called?

Ralitsa:

Yes. Yep.

Russel:

All right. I'm gonna wait checking this out afterwards. Very fascinating. I mean, what, What motivates you? I mean, Going back to that kind of passion side of, you know, saying during Covid. I imagine like a lot of business, especially early on, you probably have your own struggles and, and things you're worried about. What motivated you to take on that passion project as you shared?

Ralitsa:

You know what we, both Jason and I, throughout our careers, we've always been in very dynamic environments where we meet a lot of people on a daily basis, and everyone we meet seems to have an interesting story to tell. You just need to dig it out. In this specific situation, again, it was very sad. It was very depressing. It was very stressful. Yes, COVID had a lot of challenges for us as a business as well, but we were literally just every day trying to find the positives in the whole situation and what are we learning from it and how is it making us adjust to overcome something that nobody expected would happen. Both of us enjoy art. We buy art for our home. We produce art. Video and photography is a form of art as well. It was kind of a no brainer trying to stay positive. How do we stay positive? What keeps us out of this funk of the situation? Oh, well, art does and all of its forms. Cause art is painting, art is music, art is cooking. Art is anything that really brings joy to your heart. That's really where it started from. And again, just being involved with the arts community, we just knew of stories of people who are doing cool things. We're like, well, how about since we have time in our hands, we just start telling stories And it worked out.

Russel:

I've already got a title for this, so give, give back and eat ice cream. Find ways to get past some of the struggling, uh, parts of business, but really speaks to, right, obviously, COVID was an unprecedented time, but you know, you got really two choices when you're, when you're struggling, your business, whether it's COVID or just, just some of the day-to-day struggles of, to, to focus and lament on the struggles or to just be positive, look for ways to help, look for ways to give back. Even in this very great example you shared, right, just how that can and will come back to you if we can just keep our heads up and, and focus on doing good things. Awesome. Wonderful. what else is interesting about your agency? I bet we're not even on the, the cusp of all the cool things you've done.

Ralitsa:

You know what, any business is who it is, what it is, thanks to its team and group of people who support the mission every single day. One of the things that came out of that unprecedented time that we just spoke about, uh, was that we had to pivot and change. And just like many other companies, our team became hybrid. We still have people who are based in Colorado Springs. We have our physical office where we love to go to every day. I personally need an office space to work out of. I cannot work from home all the time. But we were able to develop an international team. We have a small office in Barcelona, Spain, Europe makes sense. We love Barcelona, so hey, why not?

Russel:

Why not?

Ralitsa:

Then we have a couple of other employees, uh, from Eastern Europe full-time. We have one person in the Philippines. We have one person in Canada and quite a few in the US so we, we're able to develop this multicultural team, which it's great, you know, great professionals. We work together very well every day. We achieve great, thi great things, but we also have that component of being able to just share exciting, cool things from around the globe that you wouldn't have access to on a daily basis unless you work with a global team. That's a cool aspect of who we are. It's work. Work is work. Love what we do. We're proud of our project.

Russel:

We gotta love what we do. I think that's an important concept there. How have you managed, I mean, By having, you know, I imagine all kinds of disparity just in time zones alone. Have you found a way to make your work more asynchronous? How do you navigate just the, this, yeah, this the time difference alone by having such a global, diverse team.

Ralitsa:

Flexibility on everybody's part is, is big in this whole picture. Actually that's probably been one of the more challenging things for us, is finding the right team members who can support this type of work? When I say flexibility, uh, we aim to have at least three hours overlap between everybody every single day, which is when we gather, whether as, as a group as a whole, or in many groups, work on projects, communicate. And then apart from the human aspect of being able to stay flexible, professional, and really accountable, because, yeah, while I'm asleep, I'm expecting the work is getting done by the team. Also having very well defined processes in place. I would be lying if I said that our processes are perfect. There's always room for improvement, and we always run into things which are like, oh, we didn't think of that. Let's adjust it. Let's tweak it. Let's improve it. Between the human factor, finding the right group of people to surround yourself with, and then really establishing the processes so there's clarity of who's doing what and how it's being done. That's truly how we've been able to create this team.

Russel:

And ice cream.

Ralitsa:

Ice cream. Ice cream is always great.

Russel:

Team, ice cream. I imagine they've got some unique flavors, uh, of ice cream where some of your folks work.

Ralitsa:

Oh gosh. Especially in Asia. Yes.

Russel:

What do, do you know of one? I actually have a, an agency I work with, she just got back on a trip. I think she went to like, Thailand and, and maybe a couple, oh, maybe Vietnam. Maybe Laos, I can't remember exactly. She was posting every day. She was being extremely adventurous in her eating and she was posting some things. I was just like commenting like, oh my gosh. Wow. She said she didn't even post the crazy stuff and I was like, I thought I saw the crazy stuff.

Ralitsa:

I admire people who can be that adventurous when it comes to food. Maybe earlier on in life I would've been more, but now not so much. Ice cream flavors, I, I cannot comment on, but I know that breakfast, for example, is very different in Asia and what they eat for breakfast is very different. I constantly ask people, what are you having today? What are you eating today? Tell me what are you seeing today? Send me a photo.

Russel:

I love that. Embrace the differences of, of the different cultures. I can see that would make a very fun and vibrant environment. When you think about the future of Twelve Legs, what does that look like? What are your goals, hopes and dreams?

Ralitsa:

For the near future, I, I don't mean to be talking about, you know, topics that can be, again, scrutinized and easily kind of argued with, but I personally believe that we live in a little bit of a volatile economy right now. Our short-term goals would be just to maintain. If we can maintain, maybe grow a little bit, we'd be happy. That's the short term. If we can grow a lot, awesome. We'll take it, don't get me wrong. But the goal is, don't lose what you've established. If you can build on it a little bit, wonderful. That will be a win. Long-term goals, we'd love to position the team to further grow, so we'd probably want to grow the team a little bit more. We're at 15 right now, probably 20 is where we would like to cap it, at least from today's standpoint. Enable the team to be a little bit more autonomous. Right now, Jason and I are still very involved with the business on a daily basis, and I'm sure that a lot of people who run a small business can relate to that. Just being able to empower and enable our people to do more and just feel that ownership of, I'm not just an employee, I do more than that. I actually have an impact beyond my check-in and checkout every day. That is it in a conservative nutshell. I'm a pretty conservative person.

Russel:

As you share, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's obviously worked really well for you and you've created a lot of stability for, for your, your yourselves and your family. We can all admit regardless of what side of the spectrum we might be on of that we are in interesting times, um, economically and, and in all sorts of ways. So sometimes, yeah, it, it's smart to just embrace what might be the road ahead, albeit uncertain. Rather than, you know, hope is not a plan. Hope is not a strategy as folks like to say, oh, endless growth when, when the environment might not be right for that. Ain't nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, it's uh, it's probably a lot smarter approach, um, by all means. I love to hear it.

Ralitsa:

Thank you for not completely scrutinizing me.

Russel:

No, if you heard any scrutinizing there, no scrutinizing at all. I think it's truly, I do truly mean that. I think it's smart business. I think probably even going back to American culture a little bit in general, like it, it probably over glorifies growth. Ultimately where, where I track with people is, look, this whole business thing needs to create the life you want. And if it's not going down that path and then we're doing something wrong, we need to take a take a step back and, and reassess and say, how do I make this thing create the life I want? What is comfortable and right for me and my family, or whoever you wanna bring into that fold. But, um, that is the name of this game.

Ralitsa:

Such a great point. And truly, I honestly believe that that's why some people decide to start a business of their own in pursuit of that, right? And other, others decide the better route is to stay as an employee. And there's nothing wrong with either case. It's what you just said. As long as you're happy and you love what you do on a daily basis, not every day, you may not love every day of it, but when you draw the line, as long as you're happy, then, then it's worth it, whatever that may be.

Russel:

Yeah. We're not gonna love every day and quite, and point of fact if weeks, if we expect to, right, it's what are, what are they? Is it like expectations of the enemy of happiness or something like that. We're setting ourselves up for failure, but, um, so true. What a great perspective. Wonderful stuff. Thank you for sharing so many wonderful parts of your journey. My last question for you is are entrepreneurs born or are they made?

Ralitsa:

Oh, what a great question. Oh gosh. I think it depends on the context that you're coming from. I believe that as human beings, we all carry in our hearts. The desire for being independent and being an entrepreneur means that you are independent, you are calling the shots, you're making the decisions, and you're also, um, responsible for all the outcomes, whatever those may be.

Russel:

Ain't that the truth?

Ralitsa:

I think the context of all of us, one way or another, predetermines somehow the overall perception of, yes, I can or want to be an entrepreneur versus not. Cultural differences or cultural contexts, uh, family context, just opportunities along the way. You either need to be a big risk taker to jump into this, or you need to really be smart for a period of time. How you position yourself to be able to take the leap? And in our situation, we were just very disciplined for a period of time to be able to take the leap. Both Jason's family and my family, um, have entrepreneurs. Both of our dads ran their own small businesses, so that's what we grew up with. And it looked cool.

Russel:

There you go. It's in the blood. And here you are. Wonderful answer. Well, if people wanna know more about Twelve Legs, I think you might have shared a little bit earlier, but we'll replug it. Where can they go?

Ralitsa:

Twelvelegsmarketing.com, all spelled out, uh, is our website. We're also on Facebook, YouTube. Those are the two main social media channels. LinkedIn as well, actually. My bad. Our website is probably a great starting point.

Russel:

And check out that documentary. I forgot to ask also, what does Twelve Legs mean?

Ralitsa:

Started with two humans and two dogs, a total of twelve.

Russel:

That is twelve legs. All right. There you go. Simple. Love it. All right, well, wonderful stuff, Ralitsa, thank you so much for taking the time outta your day to share the, all the parts of your journey. Learned so many lessons. We talked about ice cream and the just embracing diversity and having a diverse culture and team and prepare for the unknown and conservative is a good thing. Just so many wonderful nuggets you shared. Really appreciate you taking the time to do that.

Ralitsa:

Thank you Russel. It's been a true pleasure to meet you, to talk to you, to learn from you'cause I've learned quite a bit from our discussions as well. I look forward to our paths crossing again at some point in the future.

We hope you've enjoyed this episode of An Agency Story podcast where we share real stories of marketing agency owners from around the world. Are you interested in being a guest on the show? Send an email to podcast@performancefaction.com. An Agency Story is brought to you by Performance Faction. Performance Faction offers services to help agency owners grow their business to 5 million dollars and more in revenue. To learn more, visit performancefaction.com.

Ralitsa:

I was working in corporate America at the time, developing a campaign for one of the products that we were selling. The whole premise was get your ducks in a row, um, with training, consulting, so serious topic, but trying to put a light spin on it with rubber ducks and all that jazz. I was emailing my boss at the time, giving him a report on where we stand with all the preparation and the subject line. I typed very quickly and I did not double check it. That's why I overanalyze and double and triple check everything because instead of get your ducks in a row, I had to switch the U with an I in the word ducks. And he was very cool. His response was, maybe you wanna spell check things before you send out communication. And, um, that has stuck with me. People give me a hard time, give me a hard time around that, um, quite a bit. Double check your words.

Russel:

You're probably not the first person that's done something along those lines, but, you know, just, I mean, to the point, you could have misspelled a lot of other words in that, um, in that sentence and wouldn't have been a cool story like this. But you, you happen to misspelled the right word with the right letter. And now we have a story.

Ralitsa:

There you go.

Russel:

All right, lesson learned. Some lessons come funnier and harder than others.

Ralitsa:

Indeed.