An Agency Story

Teen Agency Founder Turned Burrito Boss - Inovat

• Russel Dubree / Doug Logan • Episode 155

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What happens when a 14-year-old builds an agency and later finds himself running a burrito shop on the side? In this episode, Doug Logan of Inovat shares his journey from teenage entrepreneur to seasoned agency owner, offering candid lessons on leadership, letting go, and staying in love with the work.

Key Takeaways

  • Why imposter syndrome never fully disappears and how to manage it
  • The hidden cost of holding on to too many hats as a founder
  • Gaining leverage in new business conversations
  • How in the world Doug started a burrito side hustle 

Details for an agency planning workshop event November 10th and 11th 2025. 

Russel:

Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where owners and experts share the real journey, the early struggles, the breakthrough moments, and everything in between. I'm your host Russel Dubree, former eight figure agency owner turned business coach, sold my agency and now helps agency leaders create their ideal business. Every agency has a story, and this is your front row seat. This is An Agency Story. Welcome to the show today, everyone. I have Doug Logan with Innovate here today. Welcome to the show today, Doug.

Doug:

Thanks for having me.

Russel:

I'm glad you were here and I mean, coming off a pretty prestigious awards. You are the Bureau member of the month. Yeah. I'm honored to be

Doug:

in your presence there. Oh, you were a runner up on that, I think too, right? Not to. Cast shame. Uh,

Russel:

or the, the pain, Doug, the pain, that's too soon. We, we can't, we can't talk about that. Um, no. Is that, I mean, obviously you're, you're a pretty active member of the bureau. How long you been part of it? How's that helping your business? How, how you enjoying the Bureau, Doug?

Doug:

You know, I love the bureau. I just actually recommended it to someone I was talking with, uh, yesterday. I don't know if it'll be a good fit for her or not, but we'll see. I. You know, fairly active in, in a couple different communities. But the Bureau has a special place, I think, because it, it really allows me to kind of connect with my peers, and I think if you're vulnerable, then people will be vulnerable with you. So some of the conversations that you see and you can react to, I mean, you just kind of feel connected and understood. Right. Yeah, so I think probably like a lot of others I kind of joined over, um, COVID, you know, the dark ages, whatever that was. Oh,

Russel:

okay. So you've been around a

Doug:

while then. Yeah, yeah. And uh, and just kind of stuck with it and I've been to a couple in-person events and yeah, most recently, I guess in the last month I hosted your webinar and another webinar. Um, and I guess that's what you have to do. So if you're looking for that magic formula to get the, uh, employee of the month. By employee. I mean, um, I pay to, to work there. Uh, uh, you gotta host some webinars and one of'em in a pinch, uh, for sure, because I think yours, I think was in a pinch. Yeah. You must have gotten some bonus points for that. Yeah. Yeah. That was like a, uh, less than 24 hour notice type thing, so, um, I can't, uh, can't praise it enough. It's immensely helpful. Highly collaborative and I've made business from it too. You know, people have passed me leads or vice versa. I'm working on, on one tomorrow that I'm super excited about. That was referred to me by someone else in the bureau. So that's not the intention of the bureau. Um, the intention is

Russel:

good disclaimer. Yeah.

Doug:

Don't go in there and start selling. Um. It'll come naturally. So,

Russel:

And just for the folks at home, right. The, the Bureau is an online community, digital agencies, all different types of roles and digital agencies from owners to project managers and all kinds of great content community in-person events, that's my favorite part of the bureau. That's really where I think a lot of the magic happens. So yeah. Great, great community. But, uh, well, I guess we should talk more about you and your agency and your story. So maybe kick us off here and tell us what Innovate does and who you do it for.

Doug:

Yeah, so Innovate is we call ourselves a small and mighty digital agency and we work with founder-led brands. So we've kind of focused in on that over the last year or so, and that's our sweet spot. It took us some time to get to that. About one as as

Russel:

it does, as it should.

Doug:

Yeah.

Russel:

Yeah. I was asking this a question recently and, and, um, it's a new question I'm kind of curious about is could we start out as an agency with, you know, being well positioned and knowing exactly kinda what we wanna do as a service or do we all have to go through this little bit of muck and mire too? Find our groove, if you will.

Doug:

Uh, I mean, I guess that's a really good question. I know that there's a lot of really great successful agencies out there that were kind of like spinoffs. And I think probably in that consideration it would probably work where you get a couple of, like the, the chief creative officers from, you know, one of the bigs and then they spin off and they're like, I'm tired of. Doing this, I'm just gonna walk away and take some of this business and take some of the best creative talent and start my own shop. And they get to launch with amazing clients right off the bat. And they're in that case. I, I think they stand the best chance to be well positioned from the very beginning, you know? Yeah. So, but otherwise, no. I think you, you gotta put in your time, right? Yeah. You gotta kind of go through it and go through the pain. And the pain is really your own self-inflicted pain. Right. I mean, we're our own worst enemies for sure. Uh, and we, we just kind of torment ourselves on making decisions or not making decisions, which is also still a decision. Yeah. So true, so true.

Russel:

As you're just kinda sharing that, right. It it made me think of Right.'cause so many people started an agency that were in the agency world, but someone out there not, this isn't gonna be me, could make like a, a family tree of agencies and Right. All the trickle down. Right. Bigger agencies obviously are gonna created, spawned a lot of more agencies than others. But I bet that would be an interesting, I bet that'd be an interesting tree. Yeah. Yeah. Agency Family tree. All right. Somebody can create that, not me. All right, well back to your story again. I wanna hear about young Doug. I know a lot more about older Doug, but what was young Doug doing in life? Where was he headed? We'll see if he got there or not.

Doug:

Yeah, I think so. I was a nerd. I still am. For a period of my life, I had the. I guess the privilege, if you will, of being homeschooled for a couple of years. And that happened to like coincide with the early days of the internet. So I still remember what my AOL Instant Messenger handle was. Oh boy. Um, yeah, I had MySpace and GeoCities and Strong Bat, all of those great things. So I had that benefit of being able to. Really kind of controlled my own schedule. And I started to innovate unofficially when I was 14. Uh, I had actually went to some kind of networking event, um, as a 14-year-old, maybe I was 13. Wow. Uh, my mom had to drive me. I met a printer, uh, someone who, you know, they printed letterhead and all that kind of stuff, and I built him a flash website. He printed my first business card. It was an exchange. My mom had to drive me to all the meetings. But I had my, my first business card when I was 14.

Russel:

Oh my gosh. You might be, you're, this might be an official record. I think you might be the youngest agency owner I've ever had on the show.

Doug:

Yeah. I mean officially then started innovate right outta high school. So I went to art school. For a day, uh, an open house, a literal day. It was a two day open house. I made it the first day, uh, and I was like, this is dumb. And they're not teaching me anything that, I don't know, like a typical millennial. I just assumed that I knew more than the professor, and, and it wasn't focused on, it was multimedia. That's what they didn't know what to call the web at that time, so it was multimedia. So that was the course and I made it through the first day and I was like, I'm not going back. I know more than they're gonna teach me. And I just started innovate right then and formalized it. LLC had some business partners and we're still in business 20 some years later. And that school, that art school, they're no longer a business. So I don't know how that works. Maybe the millennial me was right. I don't know. But what was the art school? Um. It was a private, like a smaller art school. Okay. It's called like Bradley, and then it got bought up by the original ai, the Art Institute was a thing and then that Okay. Yeah. You know, there was art institutes all over the country and then I don't know what they did, um, but they, they all collapsed,

Russel:

did all the artists, because I know the one in Dallas is no longer around on either, so the, I think they've all collapsed.

Doug:

Yeah. Okay. I didn't know that. I'm pretty sure that they, they're all gone, but I don't know. I'm sure I can Google it.

Russel:

They were specifically like way overpriced for what they were teaching and educating folks on. So I'm not surprised the market did not support the art institutes. Yeah. My, my apologies if anyone out there listening holds the art institutes in, in dear regard, but not surprised now that you're sharing this.

Doug:

Yeah,

Russel:

I mean, clearly. It shaped you. This, you going back to being homeschooled. So I mean, are you net pro homeschooling or where, where do you fall and how much that shaped you in, in your approach to the world?

Doug:

Um, no, I think, uh, I'm definitely not, like my kids are, are both going to public school. Uh, and I, I went from homeschooled to small private school and I'm, I'm also not pro private schools. When I went from homeschool to private schools, I went from a, a class size of. One to a class size of like 24. Um, that was a rush, right? I mean, that, that was a 2400%

Russel:

increase.

Doug:

Yeah. And, and it was, uh, you know, socially it opened me up. It forced me to make friends and do all these things that like, I just, I was just too busy being a nerd, and now all of a sudden I had to be somewhat popular. And so that was. An interesting combination for sure. I was definitely, I got some independence from being homeschooled and the private school let me kind of flourish a bit. And then I, I mean, I was very active. I said I started my business after high school, but technically my senior year I was, I missed more days my senior year than the, uh. The dropout kid, all of them being excused because my dad was working for a company, um, at the time, and they were our first client. And so I was going on trips and when we started, it wasn't just the web, right? We were doing brochures and DVDs and, and everything. So we were doing photography and video and there was all these places that we had to go for photo shoots and video shoots and, you know, all of that. And so I was, I missed. Yeah, a lot of, uh, my senior year of high school, which, uh. I still graduated with honors and everything. Yeah. Some of my teachers really hated me because of that.

Russel:

Dang, we want to fail this kid, but I guess we gotta, we gotta pass them. yeah, I mean, Obviously in different strokes for different folks, but I do see, I mean, from someone that has no clue about homeschool or anything like that, but. This notion that, I mean, we, we've kind of proven a little bit in this country that the education system has got some room for improvement. Um, but that just, if you're a fast learner and if you pick up things that you know, school is, it's gonna hold you back, not carry you forward, perhaps. What a journey. All right, man. So I thought I started agency young and right. I think I was 24, 25. So you got me beat by a lot. And I remember being very insecure about not being taken seriously from my age. What was that like for you? Was that a thing for you? I mean, I still think that happens for

Doug:

me then. Uh, no. Absolutely. I, uh, oh gosh. Yeah, I remember. I remember that being. An issue early on and it was always easier to be on a phone call. Right. Because we didn't have been on video, zoom and stuff like that at that point. Yeah. Got,

Russel:

yep.

Doug:

So it was always easier to kind of pitch via phone. But I remember, I mean, we would pitch some big accounts and we won some big accounts and that was always intimidating. Uh, I think in some ways though. I mean, it helped, you know, it showed that we're young and hungry and mature and could do the work. I don't miss that, but I think, you're always in this life gonna feel like you're, you're not quite right or a good fit. And I think, I don't think that that feeling goes away. I think we just manage it differently. And I think it's just a mindset, right? So you just learn to not listen to that voice, right. We have no lack of negative thoughts flying through our mind at any given moment. We have to the truth, we have to be consciously thinking positive things. Yeah. And that's so, so crucial in any kind of role, but especially as an agency owner.

Russel:

So true. I do try to share that so much and, and I think that is what I am also gracious about, about being young, is I was, uh, too young and dumb to not just be anything positive and everything is all up and, you know, roses and we're just even on a bad day. Well, that's all right. Let's go on. Keep moving. Uh, because I, I don't know that 40, 40, whatever, how old am I? How old am I? What year is this? 44. 44-year-old me. Um. Would be able to approach it in the same way that I did back then. And I gotta imagine too, what you're saying that, well, we thought of as an imposter syndrome to be walking in the room and talking at the stakes that we were talking at with these folks. It was almost like they might've expected worse. And then it was far more, it was like under promise, over deliver kind of thing. And in terms of what they might have expected. So it could have been a superpower more so than my young self might've recognized.

Doug:

Yeah. Well, we tend to remember the accounts that we've. And the projects that went well and start to forget the ones that didn't go so well or the ones that we didn't win. There are a couple that, that still hurt from time to time, but that that's getting, uh. Fewer and far between, I guess.

Russel:

I don't if you have any like, young, embarrassing moments of just like, what was I thinking? But, uh, one in particular, and, and this is an account I wish they hadn't signed with this because they were like one of the. Few only clients ever that we actually kind of got a tiff with in the end. but, uh, they showed up on a day that was like a dress up day for us, and I was wearing like jean shorts and a cutoff t-shirt and a big mullet wig. And we're just sitting at a meeting, uh, you know, trying to close this business and like, yep, you showed up on dress up day and, and, uh, you wanna, you wanna sign on for this project? And thinking back it's like, man, that was, uh, again, another interesting thing I think you'd only do when you're young.

Doug:

I think we had one that we didn't win that was for a, a pretty big tire company and they were, I think Korean based. And so we went into this pitch and it was an hour long and it had, that had a massively long boardroom and it was, uh. One of those boardroom tables that were 30 seats of the tiny tv. It's like in the movies, like in the eighties Movie

Russel:

business movies or something. Yeah.

Doug:

This TV all the way at the one end, all the executives at that end, the plug to plug into the TV was all the way at the other end and we, we had stayed up and drove through the night, got a hotel for like five or six of us. There was someone. At that time we had no automotive experience, so this was before we worked with Ferrari and we came into this pitch and I brought probably because I wanted someone older. I brought someone who was, was older and was a writer who had done a lot of work with like BMW and a couple other notable brands, and we left entirely too late from the office. The night before and hit a snowstorm. And this was before there were like really goods. Like you didn't have Google Maps. It was either you printed out, you know, MapQuest.

Russel:

Uh yep.

Doug:

Once someone on the team had like one of the very first GPSs and I remember it was wrong and we ended up. Like 45 minutes away when we thought we had arrived, you know? So we didn't actually get into the hotel until like 3:00 AM or something and

Russel:

oh my gosh, this

Doug:

is years and years ago, right? So obviously we bounce back, we get up the next morning, we get to this presentation and you know where the agency before us was, was running over and we finally got in. And at that time I had this sort of warring. Two creatives without one of'em being clearly the creative director. They were really good at working together, but they just basically, we ended up going into an hour presentation with a hundred page hand drawn, sort of like sketched out idea of what we wanted to do for this client with some really, really awesome ideas. And I'm like, how are we possibly gonna get through a hundred pages of hand-drawn? Illustrations and in this format, in this presentation also with five or six people, one whom I've only ever spoken with but never actually worked with. And half the room apparently didn't even speak English. Because they were all from Korea. Um, the only things that we got accomplished was that we had technical problems. We were unable. I could get about two slides in and then the connection between my laptop and the. TV would disconnect and I'd have to plug it back in and start all over again. So by the third time that that happened, we made a, I made an exact decision to try to change laptops while that happened. This writer whom, I'd only ever met over the phone, tries to fill the awkwardness and start talking about his background and story. So that goes over. I don't even know because I'm sleep deprived. I'm just trying to fix the technical problem. We probably got 20 slides into this a hundred slide, you know, presentation. One of the designers, uh, had in his bio how, hi, him and his band had actually been on MTV. So the only thing that actually got accomplished in the whole thing was one of the executives pointed at this guy and he goes, you, MTV. Yes. And that was it.

Russel:

Oh my God. Needless

Doug:

to say, we did not win that account.

Russel:

Yeah.

Doug:

Uh, I don't know that anybody actually won that account. And, um, well, that's good to know, at least. Yeah. We learned, we learned a lot of what not to do, but that, you know, those pitches, those early pitches where you're, I think I've, I've absolutely lost some of that because that, a little bit of that, you know, imposter syndrome is good because you, you strive to do better. You feel like you over prepare

Russel:

and over

Doug:

Yeah. Overcompensate and can be a good way. I can, I can totally see that. So now I find myself 20 plus years later realizing that like I can't just go in with a 10 page document and expect I'm gonna win this and that I don't actually need to put in the work for someone new. So that's, you know. I've gotten, I guess, a little lazy in my older age, and that's a conscious effort to try to turn that around and really not just want the work, but work for the work.

Russel:

Well, it's such a tough topic, I feel like, in our space and Right, and I know certainly in the earlier days, right, no one was saying not to do spec work, so you would do whatever it took, you do all these kind of extra things to land a project. Then we went through this era of, that is bad. That is horrible. You should never, ever do that. And now I think now maybe we're in a happy medium where, you know, yes, we should feel some obligation to contribute to our potential client's understanding of our ability to help them solve their solution or whatever. But we wanna manage that, I feel like is now the approach. We can't just do it because they tell us to do it or something along those lines. But, um, it's been an interesting dichotomy, I feel like, over the couple decades here of how this notion is how much should we work for the work?

Doug:

Yeah, I think there's ways of doing it without giving away everything. I mean, I, I mentioned that, you know, I've got a big presentation tomorrow for a client that I'm really hoping that we land and we have relevant work, we've, and all of that. So we could just go in with this case study and this case study, and this is how we're gonna approach it. And I know for a fact that that's how they. That's what they're asking for, right? This is our third call with this, uh, this prospect. And so at the end of the second call where we didn't talk about numbers at all. The expectation is that we're gonna come back with now a formal proposal with that aligns to their budget, which is healthy, which is great. I mean, it was potentially up to three times the number that I had in my mind, which is that doesn't happen very often. Uh, and we, yeah. You know, so the expectation is how we're gonna work through that budget, what's the timeline gonna be? What are the actual deliverables? And that's sort of the expectation. But we are, right before this call, I was just on with our creative director and going through. Just some creative explorations and just how we could push them a little bit further without really giving away everything. They could obviously take it and run with it and steal it and have somebody else do it. I think that's happened to us maybe once or twice. Yeah. In the last 20 years. And if that happens, then. They weren't a great client, right? Because do you really wanna be the agency that that won the work because you were half the price and they give you the other agency's idea and say, Hey, here's their ideas. Go do that. Right? Um, yeah.

Russel:

Yeah, not, not what you wanna be known for. Um, yeah, I mean, we were in the same boat. I think we would always just try to find that happy medium of like, let's do something, let's do something unique that we're not just doing a canned pitch or something like that. Help put together some ideas and some strategy. Um, and. Compliment that at times with visuals. Not necessarily comps or anything along those lines, but just visual representations of some of those ideas and strategies. And I always talk a lot about that. Our clients, they're not experts in any of these spaces oftentimes and. We've gotta do some of that work to make these concepts, make these ideas, help them see this thing that we're gonna do for them in a lot simpler terms than any writing on a piece of paper or anything like that. So to that point, that takes work to say something simply in a way that's meaningful and is gonna resonate.

Doug:

Going back to the starter of this question, which is the idea of winning the work without pitching the work, right. The reality is, is that if everyone agreed to that, every agency out there and, and we were all playing from the same, you know, deck of cards or from the same, if we all agreed to that and all play, if that was like, this is the basis for being an agency owner is that you don't pitch work, and we all signed that and everyone did that, then I think. That's great, but it only takes one person to be like, Nope, I'm not doing that, and I'm gonna pitch it. And they get a huge upper hand because when it comes down to it, Russell, I know you don't have an agency anymore, but if it was you and me trying to win the business, I don't have to beat you 100% to beat you 80%. I just have to be 1% better than you. That's it. And putting in that little bit of extra Right. Can make the difference. 51 to 49. Boom. I, Doug had a beard. Russell did. There you go. You know

Russel:

it's a beard every time. I knew it. Damn. In his beard.

Doug:

Yeah.

Russel:

Yeah, it's so true. That would be an interesting world. I hope, I hope someday AI gets to the point where we could put in a scenario like that and just play out this idea of if every agency agreed to this, what would the market look like? That would be an interesting scenario. I would love to see that scenario run. Let's, uh, I want to just get back to your journey and, and we'll know whether, I'm sure there's way more great stories than we could ever get to all of'em, but, going back to kind that factor, and I dunno if you were this way, but it kind of started out all piss and vinegar, right? I said, nothing can knock you down. When was like the first, I don't know, wake up call or where you just realized, you know what, I gotta do something differently here. We've gotta shift this thing Or did that happen?

Doug:

I think there's, there's definitely times looking back where. Change either happened to us or because of us. And I'd love to say that I have led the change in most of those cases and for the better, but I can't say that to be true. I think that we went through, I mean, we bought this office and hadn't paid top dollar for it. In 2008, and for your listeners that maybe don't know, that's when the housing market collapsed.

Russel:

Yeah.

Doug:

And this was a house, this was a house that we converted into an office. Uh, so you know, that was a rough time and we made it through. Obviously we've seen a recession or two and whatever it is that we're in right now. So change happens and it does cause you to think about. Where you are and what you want to do and where you see yourself in the next year or or so. And I think, you know, we've done some diversification over the years to try to steady ourselves. You know, we've got some rental properties. We, we started a, a burrito. A mini burrito empire. I would say we've got two locations. That was about 10 years ago. Hold on. A what?

Russel:

A mini burrito empire.

Doug:

Well, there's two locations, so I don't know that it's quite, I hold on. It's a chain. You can just say it's

Russel:

a, it's a burrito food stand. Either way. I'm, I'm just very curious about, but put it, go down your to story and we'll come back to the burrito thing. Yeah. Um, but I gotta know more about this.

Doug:

So, you know, as entrepreneurs we typically, a lot of times. We have visions, we, we wanna go out and do it. And then sometimes you realize once you started something that maybe you don't wanna, you don't want to be doing it anymore. The burrito, uh, shop. I think what was interesting about that I was really excited about it, was an idea that I had and we had other people to, to run it. So I, I'm, you know, a part owner of it and when it got. Not even a year old. I think I started to get tired of it already. You know, it was pretty early on that I was like, I loved the idea, but I don't love doing this. I don't see myself running a burrito empire, you know? But the reality was that like we had started it, it was doing well. Um, we eventually expanded. We have a second location, and now we're still managing it. I'm spending. Very little time on it. We have a really experienced operator, and that's our, uh, director of operations that's overseeing both locations now and has been focusing heavily on the culture of the training and, and we're seeing all of that improve because it's, it's really hard, in the agency, I'm very much involved in shaping the culture. I'm controlled, working with all of our employees, working with all of our clients. I mean, I really shape the culture. I'm probably largely responsible for it, at the burrito shop. It's very hard to lead when you're not there, and so that. That had to move on to someone else. So that took some time for us to get to that point and pass that mantle on. But I'm really happy that we did. But we're in a season right now of just reinvesting back into that person and into both locations so that we can, and hopefully see some growth to it. But it's, it's really made me realize that. My love is absolutely the agency. I love what I do. You know, I joke that this is my day job and that's my side hustle. And, um, I don't know that, I mean, I guess it's a side hustle. I'm only spending about an hour a week on it. Currently it's costing me money. So it's a not a good side hustle. It's hobby. Hobby. It's expensive.

Russel:

It's like a, you could, you could get in all kinds of hobbies that cost you a lot of money and you spend a couple hours a week on, but, so, yeah. And what's it called?

Doug:

It's called Good Burrito, so. Okay. And where one

Russel:

part, I don't know if you ever mentioned a city or anything, but where can one partake in

Doug:

good burrito? Yeah. So the original one is not even. A mile from my office here, uh, in Elizabethtown, so it's closer to the square. We're a little bit further out of town. I can walk there in a matter of minutes, so I don't know that I've measured it, but it's, might not even be a half mile. The second one is about 15, 20 minutes away. Headed, uh, closer to Lancaster, which is in a town called Manheim, and it's, uh, right next to a hotel. So very different dynamics between, you know, small downtown with a community kind of supporting and behind it to one that's now, we've got a McDonald's beside us, a Taco Bell just moved in recently Mm-hmm.. It's a very, very different competitive landscape right off a highway. It's very challenging. It's very different. I don't know if we would've should have done that. We recently turned down a third location. I can't disclose exactly the name of it. That's okay. But it was in a rather large amusement park and we just, we really couldn't. Make the numbers work. Yeah. It was just astronomical. Wow. It would've been, it would've been the best of times and the worst of times for sure.

Russel:

Uh, I get it. I mean, I mean, right. It, I always tell it's, look, it's hard enough to run one business in any capacity in hard to run two businesses in any capacity. But sounds like you've, you've found a good place for where you're at. And one of the more interesting I've heard of all kinds of side hustles coming off of agency ownership, but that's gonna be in more unique territory as well. Doug, you're just proving out to be an interesting man all the way around from bureau member of the month to burrito owner to starting an agency as a very young buck. Very fascinating. Uh, I mean, you've been at this a long time. Clearly you love the work you're doing. How are you looking at the future of this? What's the long-term game plan for you?

Doug:

You know, I, I think I've been at it long enough that I, I get all the ads for retirement because I think that they, they don't necessarily look a ar a AR A A RP card is on the

Russel:

horizon.

Doug:

Well, they're actually a client of ours, so that makes it even more interesting. That might have something to do with why I get targeted for, uh, retirement ads, but I'm not a big believer in retirement. I'm a big believer in transitioning into something. I don't know. There's a number in my mind to walk away from the breeder shop where I would be, happy, but there's not a number on the agency. Mm-hmm. And I think that really just kind of comes down to that A, I find fulfillment in the work. I find fulfillment in the people that I do the work with and the people I do the work for. And so. What that looks like is, you know, getting to some point, getting to a place where I can still be involved, but I don't have to be tied to this office. You know, maybe Doug's working from Italy for three months outta the year, whatever. And um, yeah, I think that. That's the plan right now. And I'm, you know, I'm in my early forties now, um, and so, you know, retirement is still technically 20 years or more away, so maybe it'll change in that time and I'll change my scripts. But as it stands, I just, I love what I do and I know people that have retired and they work harder than they did when they were working. They're just not. Making any money for it, and that doesn't make sense to me.

Russel:

Very cool. Uh, I mean, it's such a, a breath of fresh air right. To, to hear someone kinda speak of, of being in that place. And I think that's a little bit of a nirvana state to be there. And so kudos to you for all the work that you've done to be able to, to be in that place and I know when I was younger I was thinking like, okay, 65 and that's when I'm gonna. Do everything I wanna do in life.'cause I'm gonna retire. I'm like, I think I'm in the same boat now. Like, I'll never retire. I don't know what I'll be doing, you know, until the day I die, but I know it won't, there will never be this true notion of retirement. So I don't know if, if this is our generation and we're just thinking of the world differently than the previous generations. We seem to be looking at this very differently, or maybe it's just this type of work we're doing. Right. If I was working in a factory, yes, I would absolutely be eyeing, knowing that someday my old body couldn't handle that. And that's how folks thought of a job. I, I'm just, yeah. Uh, I'm, I'm sitting here just stream of consciousness thinking, why is this a new thought process and, and our younger generations,

Doug:

I think the most physically exerting aspect of my job is that I've moved my office to the third floor. Right? So I've gotta go up two flights of stairs. Yeah. Uh, but mentally to stay fresh and to stay top of mind. I mean, I've got a 16-year-old son. I just taught to drive stick, you know? Mm.

Russel:

And you're driving, teaching someone a young person to drive is hard enough. And you've introduced a very tough element there. I'm proud of you. Courageous man.

Doug:

And then I have a one and a half year old daughter. Second wife. So I'm definitely. Reliving a lot of, you know, 20 years ago, whatever. So there's, that keeps you young. It keeps you Oh yeah. Alive. She's gonna be graduating high school when I'm like retirement age. That's gonna be interesting, right? Like, I'm, I'm like of similar age with my kids' friends now, um, like my son, but. I'm gonna be the old, old dad.

Russel:

Yeah. Is that your grandpa over there? No, that's my dad.

Doug:

Yep.

Russel:

You get a chance to really see how all your ideas and thoughts worked out and then you can, you have a better, you can ab test a lot better than if they were closer together. You don't quite know how everything's gonna pan out. I guess maybe one last major question for you is. Obviously you've done really well in this business and you know, got to a good place just where you're at work-wise and how you're looking at the future. So maybe an agency owner out there that's maybe still up and coming or struggling a little bit, like what's just some words of advice or wisdom, or maybe even you're giving this to your younger self, but what would you throw out there? Is it only one bit of advice? You can give as much advice as we want. I, I guess depending on how long that goes, how much makes the cut. But yeah, you share whatever you wanna share, man.

Doug:

I mean, I think there's been two, I'll say two themes in my life that took longer than they should have to learn. Learn. The first lesson was giving up. The hats to other people, right? So I, I talk about this a lot and we work with, with founders a lot and family businesses and they typically, when you start your agency, you start your company, whatever you're doing, you started it with the intention of doing usually one thing really well, like you, that was the thing that you love, that you couldn't stop thinking about and you do really well. And then you realize. Quickly that you have to do a whole lot of other things that you didn't sign up for, but you did. You just didn't read that contract. Well, and I remember early on thinking that I was the creative director and it took a long time for me to give it up and be like, I. That was your thing. Yeah. I was like, I'm not, why am I fighting someone who all they do is design and they're clearly gifted at it? Like, I'm not gonna be the best designer. That's not my calling. That's not who I am. And so I learned to give that up and I, I learned to give up other things as time goes on and on. And. Now I'm probably too far on the other side where I'm, I'd be willing to give up a whole lot more. Right. Somebody

Russel:

please take this. Yeah,

Doug:

yeah. Just take this off my plate. So I think that's a good, I mean that took a long time to learn that lesson and, and part of that too is also shows you in that process when you give up something to someone else, they get better out of it. They get better out it, you get better out it too, because you don't how much. You don't communicate or how well you are at getting somebody else on the same page, you know, you don't realize that until you actually do that. The other thing that I don't get right is probably the difference between working on the business and in the business and really kind of prioritizing that. It's very easy when you're busy to get stuck. Working in the business and getting this stuff done, and then you realize, oh, we just lost this, or that just happened, or whatever, and you're just so close to it. You don't see it coming, and you don't see that you need to do a pivot or change your positioning like what you said earlier, right? Mm-hmm. Because you're not focusing or spending time working on the business, and that also includes you as the leader. I mean, it's taken me years and years to realize that. I need a therapist both for my mind and my body. Like those are very important things to keep me moving and going in the right direction. And I am the leader of the agency and recently, more so now than ever before, I'm the face of the agency. So that I have to really prioritize my mental and physical health that's part of that working on instead of just in'cause. You can get really, really sucked into just doing the work and yeah, and never come up and see the light of day.

Russel:

So true. Yeah. Great advice. I mean, it's almost like, you know, over time, um, we give same things, new labels, and I always thought like, that's stupid. Like why are we just renaming things? But I kind of understand it just in the sense that we need to hear different words that, because otherwise things become white noise. And we know, we hear this working on the business, not in the business thing. And I think it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I need to do it, but. I will just probably jump on the soapbox and just say, yeah, how important that is. I mean, in almost any agency, until you get to really big, which most agencies aren't, that you are the driver of that agency. Your mindset, your wellbeing, someone, the bigger it gets certainly has to be standing at the top of the ship, not underneath the deck. Making sure it doesn't run into things. That is really important work and the more you can make time for that. Carve that out the results will come. Um, so great reminder for folks. Thank you for sharing that. All right, Doug, last big question for you. Are entrepreneurs born or are they made?

Doug:

I think it's a bit of both. I probably fit into the nurture category. I learned a lot from my dad, mostly what not to do. Probably one of the big things that he, that I learned secondhand from him was I saw him get kind of screwed over a couple times just because he took somebody at a handshake and mm-hmm. Didn't get it in writing. And there's value in a handshake, but at some point you gotta get it in writing. Yeah. Or you're gonna get screwed over. And that's just the nature of business. You don't want it to come down to a contract. You really don't. And we've, you know, in 20 years we've only had that happen like once or twice, and we've been on the winning side. But unfortunately, some people just can't be trusted. And so I think entrepreneurs are made, I think it's a byproduct of the environment you can grow up in and. Then I think we're made, especially agency owners, I think we're made every day. Some days more than others. Some days more than others. I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's a rollercoaster. I can't remember too many times where the rollercoaster was flat for a very long period. Maybe a couple weeks here or there but then it's either. We're slammed with business and just have to get as many people to jump on that crazy ride with us, uh, to get the work done, or we gotta start kicking people off and hope that they don't, you know. Break their neck on the fall down. It's never an easy ride. I don't know why we chose it, but it's a fun one. So

Russel:

It's fun. I think it's great hands on work and we all have our reasons for being in it, but, uh, that's a great answer. It's very good. Why we do this thing we do so well. If people wanna know more about Innovate, where can they go?

Doug:

Yeah, so Innovate, it's spelled I-N-O-V-A t.com. It looks like Inova, which is how my dad still pronounces it to this day. You can check us out there. You can find me on LinkedIn. If you just look for Douglas Logan I'll probably be up there towards the top and. Or find me join the bureau and find me in the slacks there, right? Yeah. There you go.

Russel:

We know you'll be there representing the bureau very well maybe hosting an event or two. And so yeah. Thank you so much, Doug. Really another great conversation. Some really grounded perspective born outta the years of experience and probably just as much as how not to do things, as how to do things. But appreciate you taking the time to share all that insight with us here today.

Doug:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Russel:

Thank you for listening to An Agency Story podcast where every story helps you write your own, subscribe, share, and join us again for more real stories, lessons learned, and breakthroughs ahead. What's next? You'll want to visit an agencystory.com/podcast and follow us on Instagram at@anagencystory for the latest updates.

Doug:

The one that I always kind of go back to is that my business partner and I, at one point we probably looked more similar than we do now. Currently. He's a bit skinnier. I'm a bit heavier. I have a beard. He does not. But we were working for Ferrari, uh, and I remember going to their headquarters in North America here outside of New York City. I remember waiting in the conference room and this little Italian guy kinda walks past the conference room and he stops and looks in at me and Nick, uh, and we're sitting there and he just stares at us and the entire conference room is filled with the whole marketing team and they're all facing us. They don't see him at this particular moment, but then he talks up and he goes, you, you, you guys see you, you guys, you guys brothers. And I'm like, and nobody says a word. He just, from outside the conference room, everyone shuts down and stops talking. I had no idea who this guy was. And that's what he says. You, you guys, you guys are brothers. And I'm like, I look at him, I'm like, no. Nope, not brothers. He's like. Cousins. You cousins? No, we're not cousins. No, not not cousins. And he goes, business partners. Business partners. I'm like, yeah, you got me. You got me, bud. You know? And he is like, I knew it. And he walks away and I just look at everyone else in the room and I'm just like, what? Who is that? And they're like, yeah, that's the president. I'm like, oh. I guess he gets to do that then. Yeah. That's funny. Oh man. Never met him again after that. Uh, so yeah. Couldn't even tell you. Maybe that

Russel:

does happen. Maybe a business partners morph into the same look somehow, some mannerisms or something like that. That's funny.