An Agency Story

When Financial Clarity Became a Competitive Edge - Visible Logic

• Russel Dubree / Emily Brackett • Episode 157

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Company: Visible Logic

Guest: Emily Brackett

Year Started: 2001

Employees: 1-10

Financial Clarity and the Creative Journey with Emily Brackett

 In this episode Emily Brackett, founder of Visible Logic and Branding Compass, shares how a pivotal moment reshaped the way she runs her business. From building a branding agency rooted in clarity to developing a software tool that helps businesses define their message, Emily’s story is a reminder of adhering to the fundamentals of business.

Inside this episode:

  • Why understanding financials is essential for every agency owner
  • The surprising statistic Emily uncovered about how few businesses invest in branding
  • What she learned from transitioning from freelancer to agency leader
  • How innovation with Branding Compass set her agency apart

Hear details for an agency planning workshop event November 10th and 11th 2025. Visit anagencystory.com to learn more. 

Russel:

Welcome to an agency Story podcast where owners and experts share the real journey, the early struggles, the breakthrough moments, and everything in between. I'm your host Russel Dubree, former eight figure agency owner, turn Business coach. Sold my agency and now helps agency leaders create their ideal business. Every agency has a story, and this is your front row seat. This is An Agency Story. Welcome to the show today, everyone. I have Emily Bracket with Visible Logic and Branding Compass with us here today. Thank you so much for joining us today, Emily.

Emily:

It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

Russel:

Well, excited to have you tell us right out of the gate, what does Visible Logic do and who do you do it for?

Emily:

Visible logic does brand strategy. Logo design, visual identity naming and content based marketing. And we focus on B2B companies with very complex products or services. So we often are working with software companies, high tech, manufacturing. Those are probably our two most common.

Russel:

Perfect, wonderful, and all the way up in Portland, Maine, as I understand, correct?

Emily:

That is right. It's a beautiful, small city up here and, um, it's about two hours north of Boston. It's probably closer in than everybody expects, but it's a great quality of life up here.

Russel:

Okay. I mean, I've never actually been to the upper Northeast, but I'm just picturing like the nice coastal, just like very naturey and, and stuff like that. I mean, you said small. How big is Portland, Maine?

Emily:

65,000 people.

Russel:

Okay. Yeah. That's too big. Very small, but

Emily:

it, it is Maine's biggest city and it feels it's Maine's

Russel:

biggest city. Yeah. What's the capital of Maine? Uh, Augusta. Is that Augusta that's bigger than the capital?

Emily:

Yeah. Wow. And, uh, it has the feeling of a much bigger city, like it's world renowned restaurants and it has, you know, a symphony, it has a theater scene, live music, but yes, very close to all sorts of, it's right on the coast. You have the ocean there, you have lakes an hour away, you've got the mountains an hour away. So it's a great location for every, all those activities.

Russel:

This is very fascinating to me as a Midwest boy. I mean, any town I could think of around that size there, in no way. It has a symphony and all those things. So this is, this is blowing my mind quite a bit actually. I gotta get up there clearly. I mean, just sounds beautiful, sounds wonderful, sounds cultural. I'll be enriched. So, uh, one of these days, I'm gonna head up that way. I definitely want to hear all the things that you've done in your agency, but tell us about young Emily.

Emily:

Hmm. Young Emily. Young Emily was a rule follower. Probably still am, meaning, you know, I did well in school because like if somebody said this is what you should do, I always wanted to do my best. And so I was pretty successful in school. I was pretty successful in athletics. I did mostly running and some basketball. I did arts, um, performing arts and dance and visual arts. So I had always been interested in a lot of, you know, different things and really like. Graduating from high school, didn't know what I wanted to do. So I went to a liberal arts school first.'cause that seemed like a good idea. If you don't know what to do

Russel:

exactly.

Emily:

I think just then prolonged that decision for four more years. I, four more years later, I'm like doing well, but still not knowing what I wanted to do.

Russel:

Did you get a degree or did you just explore all the arts?

Emily:

A degree, yeah. From Carlton College. And then I worked for a couple of years in book publishing and that's where I interacted with graphic designers for the first time. You know, growing up in the, like the eighties, graphic design has become much more. Visible as a field to everyday people. As I had never really heard of a graphic designer when I was in high school, but I realized it fit me so well. I did have good visual skills and um, it has always, well, depending on what part of graphic design you're in, it can have sort of a business side as well. And so that ended up being a great fit for me. And so then I went back to school. I got another degree at Mass Art in Boston in graphic design.

Russel:

Okay. You finally took a hot minute, but it sounds like you found your track exactly. I mean, it seems like a good fit. You guys shared like, you know, the rule falling some structure, but also some creativity and really found a good blend for yourself. I can totally appreciate that. And I guess, where did your career progress from there? You know, what were the aspirations? Kind of, we'll get up to the point I guess in where you're, we actually start your agency.

Emily:

Yeah, I think from the beginning I always envisioned someday I would have my own agency, but I did, um, after graduating, I. I was in Chicago because of, I just had some personal reasons to be in Chicago and so I lived there and I worked at several different agencies there, all in sort of the design, marketing, a little bit of ads, but mostly, um, you know, doing annual reports, logos. A lot of printed collateral at that time. This is really before websites, so yeah, just worked at several different agencies in Chicago.

Russel:

Okay. Did I hear that correctly? You said you thought you were thinking entrepreneurial long before you actually went down that route.

Emily:

Yeah, I definitely like when I would go in, whether it was the companies I worked for or interviewing places, or even as a student, we would, you know, hear from different professionals. And I did always feel like I could imagine myself in that position where I am owning a company and there's gonna be some employees, but it was very vague sort of picture. But I did feel like someday that will be where I would head.

Russel:

Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Well, I don't know exactly when it happens, but I understand there was a unfortunate kick in the butt that might have propelled you to actually starting the business. What happened and what did that lead you to?

Emily:

Yeah, that's right. So I mentioned I had worked at three different agencies before I started Visible Logic, and I got laid off at two of the three, and I, that was ouch. Surprising to me, I thought. This is a pretty steady feel. I could, you know, have jobs as long as I wanted, uh, which is, I think was inaccurate. Like creative agencies tend to, you know, hire and then they lose a client and they fire their, you know, so that I was inaccurate in my perception of the, of the world. But the last, aren't

Russel:

we all when we're young?

Emily:

Yeah. Right. Who do. Right. And, uh, but when I got let go. The second time, the third job. And that was, um, the summer of 2001. And if anybody, you know, is old enough to remember that was like, you know, the.com bubble had burst. It was definitely a recession. No, like design firms were not hiring. I. So I got laid off at the beginning of the summer and it was really like that moment of like, do I even wanna do this? You know, I was questioning everything about changing careers and I did have the luxury of, I was married, my husband had a job, and I was like, okay, let's, I'm just gonna kind of take the summer and just. Sit back and figure out what I wanna do next. And I had gotten into triathlons, so I always said, oh boy, okay, I'm gonna set myself this goal to do this triathlon. It was at the very end of the summer, beginning of September, and um, a half Ironman, I'd done some smaller ones. So I just remember being on this running course, this terrible, hilly running course in Wisconsin, and I was like, man, if I can do this, I can start my agency. So I remember that was a Sunday. I said, I'm gonna do this, and then Monday I was like, uh, this is it. This is the first day I'm starting my agency. And then the very next day was nine 11.

Russel:

Oh boy. Okay. All right. A lot to unpack here. I mean, I've certainly heard, I don't know, like 33% of agencies got started because somebody got laid off. So that's not necessarily a uncommon thing. But, uh, I love this idea of this. You're, you're trudging up a mountain and an Ironman and you know, we know what, screw it. I'm gonna do this. That's, uh, I bet that, I bet that made you run a little faster.

Emily:

Oh, right, right. I got something to do at the end. Yeah, afterwards and having like, there's sort of a post-race barbecue, and I was like, yeah, I'm gonna do this.

Russel:

I can't even imagine. Um, all right, so you started a business and the next day, September 11th, I mean, what was going through your mind there? Like, were you already like, oops, maybe this wasn't the right idea, obviously a lot of things going on, but more resolved you or, or how would you look at that?

Emily:

Yeah, I mean in many ways it didn't matter.'cause so little was, I had nothing to lose'cause I hadn't built anything yet. Mm-hmm. Um, so that was really what made me think, okay, this shouldn't be something that's. Gonna stop me because I haven't invested enough in this yet. So it was certainly a time of, you know, as we all know, a lot of just emotional and economic uncertainty. Yeah. Um, but I knew because of that I wasn't gonna find a job anyway. So I found out that time, and this has changed a little bit, but I found at that time graphic designers especially had. One of two paths, but you never did both. And I think that's changed now. I think people do. I think one path was you freelance for other design agencies. Your clients are the other agencies. The other path is you find your own clients. And I felt like definitely at that time in Chicago, it was very frowned upon to be doing both because an agency didn't wanna hire you. I think now there's much more crossover. Um, I don't know if you think that too, if they're, do you feel like there's crossover? Those aren't so di, such like a dichotomy.

Russel:

You know, it really, it really seems, it depends on what somebody's goal. I mean, some people want to just live kind of a pure freelancer life and you know, kind of a freedom almost aspect. And so I think they definitely would do more both. And then the thing I hear is anybody that's right in the agency space is they're happy to start out and doing work for other agencies just to put some food on the table on that. But that quickly becomes like, no, you know, I want my own clients. I want. More autonomy, more. Um, so I, I think it seems to be, just more of a desirable thing to focus on their own clients. If it's anything more than, I guess you could say, just freedom.

Emily:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that was, I felt like there was this choice I had to make and I said, okay, I'm gonna go find my own clients. And so that was the decision there is to that. Yeah. That made.

Russel:

Okay. And then as I understand it, you were in freelancer mode for a good long while. Um, and I mean, was that the intent? You just were just trying to also have some freedom and autonomy and, and bring in some money or what was the thought process?

Emily:

Yeah, that was absolutely my state of mind then was. Hey, I wanna get enough money to, you know, do what I wanna do. I was still very into triathlons. I wanted to do actually race triathlons a bunch all over. Um, my husband had a pretty flexible job as well. We didn't have kids yet, so, definitely. That sounds

Russel:

amazing, by the way. I mean, I don't know that I wanna run a triathlon, but just the other aspects of just traveling around and working and, uh, living the good life.

Emily:

Yeah, it was a really great way to do that. And so that worked well for quite a number of years and that was, you know, I could get enough work in to keep me busy and, um, earn enough money. And that worked. And we lived in Chicago. I did that in Chicago for several years. We decided for quality of life, we wanted to move to a smaller city. We chose Portland, Maine, we moved here, and I continued to do that for a while.

Russel:

Okay. Okay. And then you did that until, what? Like when was the shift to say, I'm pivoting, or I'm doing, I'm, I'm taking this on a different track.

Emily:

So when we moved here, I did start to get a little help from some of these other freelancers, and then we did end up starting a family. We had two kids four years apart. And it was really when I was coming back to like. Okay, I'm done having kids. I'm like, what's next? And I thought. Am I just gonna do this for the rest of my life? I think I'm going to be disappointed. And I was hearkening back to that. Like, I thought I was gonna be like an agency owner at some point, and I'm not, I'm just a freelancer. So that was a big thing. I was like, okay, I'm not gonna have a lot of freedom now that I have kids. Right? Yeah. Right. We're, we're, we're tied down so we might as well, uh, move into that mode. And so yeah, that was really like when my kids. We're, you know, younger and then heading to school, I was like, okay, I'm gonna start growing the agency now.

Russel:

What was step one like that decision comes about? What does that actually mean? What was the first step, one or two that you did after that?

Emily:

Yeah, I remember thinking about like somebody giving me the exercise, uh. Trying to put together an org chart, like what is everything you're doing now? And then what could you start delegating out to, like a different role? And that was really helpful. So that was, you know, the first thing was mostly we did design work, so I hired another designer who could take some of that off and then I. I've also always done some writing. Um, so then it was like, I think I wanna find some writing help. Um, then by this point, websites are a big thing. I need a web developer, then I need like a project manager or account manager. And so that's sort of how it all, and almost all of them started. The first person I hired in that role was part-time. And then either they grew into full-time or. They left and at some point in the turnover it became a full-time thing. But basically that's how it's all worked out from there,

Russel:

step by step, brick by brick.

Emily:

Yeah. Flow and steady. And

Russel:

then when did you come up with the name? I don't remember to do this as often anymore, but I love a good naming story. When did the name come about?

Emily:

The name did come about that first. The fall, right? In 2001 when I, so it's been that name from the beginning, because I knew I didn't want it to just be Emily Bracket, freelance graphic designer.

Russel:

Mm-hmm.

Emily:

And also I had worked at so many creative agencies that were just, you know, bracket and associates or whatever, and I was insistent I would not do that. And I have always had this idea that. I'm not gonna be the person that you hire to do. Like I remember at the time, this is especially, I used this example a lot. I'm not gonna be the one who you're gonna hire for like a CD cover, right? Like super, just really creative. I always was really interested in communication challenges and making things that were very difficult to understand clear. Using both words and graphics. That's always been my strength, and so I wanted a name that suggested that. So, visible logic. Um, that fit the bill, and I have to say, I, I still like it. I still get compliments on it. Um, I don't have any regrets about that name.

Russel:

That is actually more unique. I feel like almost every agency changed their name at one point from the origin for many different reasons. We did it for ours. Uh, I think our first name lasted about a year and then we changed. And um, so, um, so that is unique. And then it is funny as what you say, no hate, no shade to anyone out there by this, but if anytime I see an agency with a name in it, I know it's like at least a 20, 30-year-old agency. Um, yeah.'cause now the joke is what you do in the agency space is you spin two wheels. One is a color and one is an adjectives, and you just, whatever wheel you spin you, you just merge those together. Yeah. Um, but no, there's just always so much fascination behind how someone thinks about their name and what it represents and stands for. I've lost my sense of chronology, like this kind of shift that you were talking about, you know, you know, settling down home life, but wanting to do something more with your business. How long ago are we talking? What year are we at now?

Emily:

Yeah, so I would say that started in about 2017.

Russel:

Okay. All right. All right. So the rebirth or the rejuvenation is about eight years old. And then what we mentioned at the beginning and haven't talked a lot about is somewhere along the lines you've got branding Compass. Yeah. Tell us about what that is and how does that fit into all this?

Emily:

Yeah. Yeah. So. Brand Encompass came along kind of side by side with this idea of growing agency very specifically. I went through the 10,000 small businesses program.

Russel:

Ah, yes.

Emily:

Program.

Russel:

What'd you think of that, by the way? Not to, not to derail your story, but I mean Okay. It

Emily:

really, it changed the trajectory of my business, so, okay. Um, they have two things they want you to work on. One is improving your current business. So for me that was. A lot of. Fixing the business side of things. They, they had us take this test at the beginning to check your, like ability to do sort of accounting and bookkeeping and, you know, read cashflow.

Russel:

It's just like a, a math test or something or like that.

Emily:

But it was like, you know, reading the profit and loss and reading the cash flow and all these things. And I thought going in, I was like, I know this stuff. I do like a lot of the stuff in QuickBooks. I know this stuff. I got like. 15% or something wanted,

Russel:

I mean, just what you were saying about your young self, and I imagine that's carried through. This sounds like that's had to be devastating for you. Like that Emily, Emily does not, A minus is a bad grade in Emily's head,

Emily:

but it put me in the remedial part of, and they actually, oh

Russel:

boy, that's a wake up call.

Emily:

That is. But see, again, being the overachiever, I'm like, okay, now I'm gonna master this. Like, okay, now I know how to read a profit and loss and I know how to categorize my expenses and I know how to quote a price to make it profitable. And obviously it's always evolving, but that's the part that changed the trajectory of visible logic. Instead of being like, I don't know, I wanna do this project. It sounds cool. And I dunno, here's a price that literally I think I just pulled out of the air. Um, that's

Russel:

funny.

Emily:

The second part of the 10,000 small businesses is what got me to brand encompass, if you want me to talk about that.

Russel:

Yeah, I want to hear more about that for sure. And, and I, I just wanted to bring up something that I think was a really great thing that you shared, and I think this is so critical. I almost anyone I talk to that makes leaps in their business and growth, they talk about, it wasn't until I got a firm understanding of the financials of my business, what they mean, how they all play together, and all the things that I'm, sounds like you might've learned in that program. So just. Double stamping how important that is. And, and I hear that quite often. So glad glad you got that opportunity, even if it, ego a little bit there to be in remedial class, but yeah. Tell us then how that kind of ended up parlaying into branding Compass.

Emily:

Okay, so they have this one big goal is to improve your existing business, but they want you to come up with some opportunity to do something different and 10,000 businesses filled with all sorts of businesses, mostly mainstream type of businesses, or meaning not like high tech startups. So people might. Introduce a new product or service or location, those types of things. And I remember looking at this group of people, so all these people are like me, like they've been somewhat but not completely successful with their business. And I looked around and I would talk to these people and basically very few of them had really invested in branding. And that was kind of painful for me to see. I'm thinking, in my mind I thought, well, pretty much every business needs like a name and a logo and a website. So therefore, practically any business out there could hire visible logic. In some ways I thought that, but I realized, I was like, wow, out of these like 200 people who are in my cohort, maybe two, had paid a branding firm.

Russel:

Wow.

Emily:

And I was like, oh my gosh, wait. This pool is way smaller than I thought, but the other 198 still need a name and a logo and a website, but they're doing it somehow on the cheat. Basically they're, they're,

Russel:

yeah, the fiber logo.

Emily:

Fiber logo, the canvas, you know, Squarespace, Wix, whatever, the kind of thing. Or a freelancer, very inexpensive freelancer, their nephew, that kind of thing. And what I realized was, okay, that's fine. Like maybe if you know what you're doing. You could hire those people or use those tools, but if you don't like, you can't even qualify. Sort of say like, what is your value proposition? Like that was the part to me that I felt like I could use technology here and help people with a lot of this foundational stuff. And then they can take this and they can go to whatever, whether it's a DIY service or a just a low cost freelancer and do it. So that's a brand encompasses, it helps people. Clarify their value proposition, clarify their ideal client profile. It gives them recommendations on colors and fonts, the best words to use, the right messages based on all this. And it's just an automated web-based software.

Russel:

Okay. So I mean, in two ways. It was really born from this class that you had to do something, you had to have an assignment, and then inspired by your peers and cohort in the class.

Emily:

Yeah.

Russel:

I like this. I like this. I mean, I can honestly say this, and this sounds embarrassing sometimes, but we were really bad at branding coming up in, in, in our agency. I mean, I think we eventually got okay enough, but we were just building websites. We were nerds, we were just trying to spit out websites. But we probably could have used this branding compass in the early days of our business'cause we just didn't appreciate branding and that it means more than just a logo and a website and a business card but it's all the things that it sounds like you're doing for your clients. I guess I'm curious, I mean, how long ago was this?

Emily:

So that was, so I got the idea around that same time, like 2017, but it took Oh, okay. A long

Russel:

time

Emily:

to like. Build the prototype and then build, like do some customer discovery and then build, like find a software developer and then build an MVP. And so it really went like totally live and automated I think in 2021.

Russel:

Okay. Alright. So it was a little, little maturity behind it. I mean, how was that investment and experiment been for you?

Emily:

Yeah, it's once it launched there's still like so much pivoting to find that product market fit. And um, the past year has been great'cause it's finally starting to get more traction with sales. And we have a couple different ways we use the tool. One is direct to small business owner, and so those are mostly solopreneurs who just go in, they go through it themselves. We do have. We have an agency license. And so those people, they do it like, so your example, like, Hey, I'm a website building shop, but we don't really know all this stuff. And so they use that. So we find it. Again, a smaller marketing, maybe a, a solopreneur marketing person would do it with their client. And then we have started to use, we kind of take some of that like IP and use it for our larger visible logic engagements because it really takes all of the, all of that stuff that branding firms are kind of famous for. Like, we're gonna do this like. Really long discovery time, or we're gonna have lots of like focus groups and sessions and it's very amorphous and very time consuming and very expensive. And this can just shorten it dramatically because people are giving their input in a way that we can examine what a lot of people said and compare their results and really hone in on like, Hey, you all agree on this, but you are a lot of disagreement over here, so let's just talk about this. And it just shortens that discovery phase. Instead of like months, it's like weeks. So that's how we use it internally with visible logic.

Russel:

Okay. I mean, that was gonna be my next question is, you know, is it more like you're running this like a separate business or is it just a product within Visible Logic? How do you think of running two separate things like that in your mind?

Emily:

This is definitely, it's been a very challenging part of this is that I bet branding wise, it has its own name, it has its own website. The direct to buyer marketing is very different than Visible Logics. But sometimes, one reason I've been trying to pull it back in is when I think about visible logic, there's a lot of competition, right? For what we do and. When I start thinking, well, what really could make us stand out? Well, we have this software that we've developed and you come with work with us. That discovery phase is more data-driven and it's faster. That's like a, ends up becoming a good differentiator for visible logic too.

Russel:

I love that. I love that. I mean that's, I found that interesting, honestly. And you know, I think there's a million ways we can go about this whole business thing, so there's no one right way. But when you were sharing that earlier in the small businesses program that, you know, businesses that are kind of trying to get their foot. And grounding in the world or whatever. That suggesting something that sounds like a side hustle is like, man, I don't know about that entirely. I mean, I get some of the intent behind it. Right. Some innovation, but I can see a lot of times where that ends up creating two separate businesses and it's hard enough to run one, it's hard enough to get the footing for one, but I, I'm glad it, you've kind of come around and after some of that initial creation phase is how can these work together and be more symbiotic than separate? And it sounds like you've, you've found some good footing with that in mind.

Emily:

Yeah, definitely.

Russel:

Sweet. So all in all, Was there ever a moment where you're like, you know what? And that corporate job didn't sound so bad?

Emily:

Yeah. I can't imagine working for somebody else. I remember hitting some low spot, you know, three years ago or something, and I was like. Yeah, what would it be like? And I guess it was sort of in the back of my head, and then somebody I knew said, oh, I heard about this opening. Would you be interested in applying? And I took a look at the listing and then they were like, okay, send your resume and cover letter. I was like, resume What? I know I, I literally just stop me right there.

Russel:

You know, that is funny. And if I'm being honest, I, I imagine there's a couple points when I was just like, you know what? Screw that. And then, yeah, I didn't have to go too far in the process and take a phone call or something like that, and you're like, okay, nevermind. Yeah, I agree. I remember, you know, it didn't take a lot to remember why, I'm doing what I'm doing. So, uh, I can appreciate that honesty about this is a hard thing we're doing and, and you're, I think, you know, not to say there's some people that never question it, but everyone, I think questions, you know, is there a better life than this? But. It sounds like you've, yes, it is. Um, what is something you wish you would've known? I don't know necessarily go back to the beginning of your journey, but like, call it a pro tip for other folks out there. What is, what is something you're like, Hey man, I really wish, I really wish I'd have known this because this is what we solved and this is what we've done really well.

Emily:

Hmm. I think you mentioned it earlier, it's, you gotta know your numbers, you gotta know the finances because otherwise it's just a hobby. Now you might be pricing things in a way that it's a very lucrative hobby, but you really are just going blind with the whole thing. Yeah. So I, yeah, I, I do think you gotta know the numbers.

Russel:

That's a good way to put it. It's like driving down a highway without your, if you don't have your speed on your dashboard, basically on your car. And what would that, think about that for a second. What would that feel like to drive down a highway and not see anything on, on the dashboard Like I think there would be some crazy things happening on that highway.

Emily:

You're probably, just to take that analogy, it's like, yeah, you might just be looking around at other people and what they're doing. But they might be making really bad mistakes and you're just following in their, you know,'cause that's the thing, like just in our like, oh, well it seems like everybody else is charging$500 for a website. Okay. It seems like that's what I should do. Right? I mean, they could be, they have a different business model or a bad business model.

Russel:

Yeah, I love this. If you're the only two cars on the road, you could be stuck behind the student driver in the right lane and not have any context of if they're going the right speed, wrong speed, and where you're even going. And it really is so true, and I get it, you know, I think a lot of folks, you know, they just, they don't like numbers. They're more creative and I think it's even a thing that's like, well, let me just outsource it. And I say, that's not even the first step is you gotta learn it. First, you gotta understand it, so you know what you need to outsource, but we can't. You just, I think the lesson learned here is you just can't ignore it no matter. No matter how you slice it.

Emily:

No.

Russel:

All right. Great takeaway. Well, when you think about the future, what are you trying to build here? What's your 10 year plan? What's the long-term vision for Visible logic and branding Compass?

Emily:

Yeah. I am feeling the optimism that the branding compass can be that thing that. Gives us that lift to separate us from other branding firms and give us a different revenue model. So we have our existing, I, I mean we've got both, uh, revenue streams right now, but I just wanna keep working on making them one improves the other.

Russel:

Yeah. Keep on going step by step, brick by brick. Yeah. Even further.

Emily:

Yep.

Russel:

Love that. Love it. Well. Last question then for you, Emily, are entrepreneurs born or are they made?

Emily:

I think there's a lot to be said about being born.

Russel:

Oh, I always get, I always get excited about a good born answer. Give it to us.

Emily:

Yeah. So my grandfather was definitely an entrepreneur. My grandfather died before I was born, so I never met him, but he owned a series of businesses. I heard about the highs and the lows, like my dad. Talked about the lows, basically, you know, when he was a child essentially coming out of the Great Depression and his dad trying to do these things that didn't pay off. And then I saw the highs of like, oh, but he invested in this real estate and he was able to do this, et cetera, et cetera. And so many of my relatives are just like, you are so much like your grandfather, but I never met him. So that's why. That's crazy. It's fascinating that, but that's a, yeah, the relatives tell me that. So.

Russel:

Wow, that's a really good case for a born that I would understand it a lot more, and I've even heard this from other folks that grew up in an entrepreneur environment where they did spend a lot of time in a relative's business but just to only hear the stories and still carry those similarities, that's pretty intriguing. Very cool. Well, if people wanna know more about Visible Logic, where can they go?

Emily:

Visible logic.com.

Russel:

Easy enough well thank you for sharing that awesome story today, Emily. Really appreciate the journey you've been on. So inspired by make, I was about to say it was gonna make me wanna go run an Ironman, but that's not gonna happen. But nonetheless, uh, some grit, some pivoting along the way and um, really, you know, the power of knowing your numbers can never reinforce that enough. Really appreciate you taking the time to share that with us today.

Emily:

Yeah, thank you so much. This has been fun.

Russel:

Thank you for listening to an agency story podcast where every story helps you write your own, subscribe, share, and join us again for more real stories, lessons learned, and breakthroughs ahead. What's next? You'll want to visit an agency story.com/podcast and follow us on Instagram at an agency story for the latest updates.

Emily:

Even though I've loved Visible Logic's name and I've gotten a lot of compliments over the years, many people do not know how to spell visible. And so I have registered V-I-S-A-B-L-E-L-O-G-I-C, and it's registered. All of our emails, domain traffic bounces over because so many people spell visible wrong.

Russel:

Yeah. That is fair. Um, it only said,'cause you, you spelled, I I think I could spell visible, but I understand. Um, I think my spelling does get worse as I get older. Um, but yeah, we did the same thing. Our company was called Life Blue. I think we bought L-I-F-E-B-L-E-W. Lesson learned you never know what, how good a speller someone is on the other side. So buy all the misspellings of your business name as well. So it's not to take a chance.