Great Leadership Starts Where Ego Ends - Briteweb

Company: Briteweb

Guest: Jill de Chavez

Year Started: 2011

Employees: 11-25

What does it really feel like to go from employee to agency owner, especially when the pressure hits fast? In this episode, Jill de Chavez shares her journey of stepping into ownership at Briteweb and what it taught her about leadership, transparency, and building a people-first agency that aligns with values and numbers. 

Episode Highlights:

• Developing future leaders through trust, transparency, and shared ownership-level context.
• Why the moment you become the owner, everything feels heavier
• How Briteweb protects culture by prioritizing safety, kindness, and empowering the team
• A practical reminder: when things get hard, the first move isn’t “do more”, find simplicity

Transcript

Russel 0:01

Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where owners and experts share the real journey, the early struggles, the breakthrough moments, and everything in between. I'm your host Russel Dubree, former eight figure agency owner, turned business coach. Sold my agency and now helps agency leaders create their ideal business. Every agency has a story, and this is your front row seat. This is an agency story. Welcome to the show today, everybody. I have Jill de Chavez with Brightweb with us here today. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jill.

Jill 0:39

Thank you for inviting me to be here, Russell.

Russel 0:41

Well, I'm excited. We have a lot to get to today, but, uh, first and foremost, if you don't mind, kick us off and tell us what Bright Web does and who you do it for.

Jill 0:51

Yeah, so Brightwave is a creative agency and we are really out in the world to make it better. What I mean by that is we work with non-for-profits and foundations. We build websites and we do brand work and publications, campaigns, really just to help clarify and amplify the stories of the work that they're doing and the people they're trying to help. So, our job is really to help uplift others.

Russel 1:11

Amazing what great intro to your business and making the world a better place. I'm already hooked. So, uh, I want to hear all the stories and all the ways that you make that happen. But before we do that, I just want to hear about young Jill. Who did young Jill want to be when she grow up, and how did that path go for her?

Jill 1:31

Yeah. Um, you know, with a new year kicking off, I think it's like one of those things where reflection is healthy and I feel like this year I was looking back and I was at the gym and I was like, my 19-year-old self is when I first joined the gym. How would my 19-year-old self feel today about where my life is? I feel like I wanted to be, to be honest. And what I thought that was was a business person, a mother. Yeah. And I think those two things are big accomplishments in life and I was able to do both and. Both are very hard and very rewarding at the same time. So I think I landed where I thought I would be.

Russel 2:05

So you, you've made Young Jill proud?

Jill 2:07

I think so, yeah.

Russel 2:08

And I mean, was that really the case at a young age you thought, you know, I'm gonna own my own business someday. Was that a goal for you?

Jill 2:14

I think so. I mean, I watched my grandfather do that and my dad had done that. And honestly like the glitz and glam of what that meant, like when you watch it on movies and stuff, like I feel like I was like, yeah, I wanna be in marketing of some sort. I wanna. Dress up and you know, look the part of that boss woman that can have it all. And I think I'm there in my own version of it. I've done it.

Russel 2:36

Nice. You said you come from a family of entrepreneurs. What kind of businesses were you exposed to at a young age?

Jill 2:42

Just real humble ones. I mean, my parents immigrated here from the Philippines, in the seventies. So it was my grandfather that actually started an ice cream factory in the Philippines, which actually still exists today. Um Oh wow. Small store. And then my dad had his own business where he was actually helping find work for immigrants and such that were coming into the country. So it was very much part of my DNA to, put myself out there. I watched both of them, or, heard of my grandfather being a very kind and charming man who was able to get a lot done. And I witnessed my dad doing the same. And so I feel like just through exposure, it seemed like it was something that like, yeah, that's what I wanna do.

Russel 3:19

I see the path being carved already. Um, so obviously at young Age, this passion was baked into you. what was the early days of your career? How did you come up career wise?

Jill 3:31

I think, you know, when you're in your twenties and you're going to school, I was really unsure of what I wanted to do because of my older brother who took a leap and he wanted to go to school for marketing. I followed in his footsteps. So in for the higher ed piece, I went to a technical college where. It was first month, you're buying a suit, buy a suit, you're gonna be doing presentations real quick. Yeah. You know, this is like in the early two thousands, so it was buy a suit, you're gonna be doing presentations soon, you're gonna be working with real organizations, you know, through research projects and all that. And it was a really phenomenal experience. Wow. At BCIT and uh. I wanna say that unconventional workload in the context of what was, you know, 10 to 12 courses per semester. And that was a, you know, a quick program. And then when I got out into the real world, I left with the credentials to be able to work in professional sales and marketing because it was the early two thousands. My first job was actually, I got hired. The yellow pages to sell. Oh,

Russel 4:31

you're not the first guest. I think that has worked in a Yellow Pages capacity, but that just always brings back some great memories

Jill 4:38

for sure. And so like I had the opportunity to, or I wanted to try sales and I wanted to try marketing, that's. You know what I'd studied and in doing both of those things, like back in the day, you were only able to get work that was within your neighborhood, right? It's not remote these days. And what I found in trying to explore both those paths was that in order for me to feel comfortable selling or promoting anything, I really had to believe in the organization that I was backing. And that wasn't something that was available to me. You know, I grew up in Vancouver and there wasn't a whole bunch of head offices back here at that time. And so I think I lost the fire or the interest to, yeah, I wanna be in sales or I wanna be in marketing.'cause I didn't necessarily have something that I. That I could do or wanna, you know, promote to people. So I went through the existential, you know, quarter of life crisis of like, what do I wanna be when I grow up? I already went to school and when I reflected back, I actually thought to myself I thoroughly enjoyed that high pressure a lot on my plate context, switching all the time type of environment. And that's where I thought, you know what? I'm gonna try and be a project manager at an agency. It's still marketing great

Russel 5:45

choice. If that's your goals, great choice

Jill 5:48

was it? Um, so yeah, I actually interned at an agency in Vancouver that was building Facebook applications for pretty shiny brands, you know, like NFL Teams, NHL teams, consumer brands that are, you know, wildly popular to this day. And yeah, that was my first exposure getting into the agency world.

Russel 6:08

Okay. Wow. Really cool work to be able to be doing. And then. You know, I don't wanna wanna give up the plot twist yet, so, um, where did you go from there?

Jill 6:18

So, you know, I spent quite a bit of time at that agency. I wanna say it was a good six years of my life and I was able to progress from an intern to project manager at the director level and you know, was just genuinely curious. I think that's how I built up. My progression of getting up to where I was because I just wanted to know like what's the profit margin and are we actually selling things enough? And so really honing in on that, it was again, with social media platforms that didn't align with my values of I see where this is going and there's a lot of data and I didn't sit well with me and so. I moved on to another agency that did more like grassroots marketing offerings, again for shiny brands. And while it was great, I still felt like I could do more in my life. You know, I grew up in that era where my school of life was Oprah. You know, I'm a nineties kid where I would come home from school and I'd watch all that stuff, and it was really deeply ingrained in me that like, Hey, you know, if you can find work. That you're really passionate about, like that's the best path that you can go with because there's, I guess, a deeper level of happiness that you get with that. And so upon my reflection, you know, from when I was in school to selecting the careers that I'd done, I was always like, does this sit right with me and my values and the energy that I wanna put out in the world and what I want my legacy to be? And I felt like while those opportunities were great, there was more that I was looking for.

Russel 7:40

This is fascinating. I mean, just obviously you're having a successful career, but to just kind of feel like you're just not there and have this yearning for a bigger, higher purpose. This sounds really cool. I don't know other way to describe that.

Jill 7:54

Thank you. You want me to keep going

Russel 7:56

too much? Yeah, just keep going. You've got this.

Jill 7:59

So I think the biggest push for me, um, was with that constant yearning of, is this the deeper piece? Then I had my first child and that's where I think things got real for me of, okay, you know, I have this opportunity. Should I stay home with my daughter or should I actually. Do something that is of interest to me that can make the world a better place. And so at that time I was like, okay, I'll look to see what's out there. And I came across an organization called Bright Web who seemed to check all the boxes of, you know, it's got the right job opportunity for me where I think I could do well. It checked the box that they were honestly trying to make the world a better place through the work that they were doing. So again, working with non-for-profits and foundations, I felt like, oh, okay, so my time spent here would actually be. I appreciate that. So I took the path of taking that leap and going to work towards Bright Web instead of staying home with my daughter, and I never really looked back from there.

Russel 8:52

I mean, just obviously, you know, you're, you're really tuned into what you wanna do, what kind of work you don't wanna do. What kind of company, like how hard was that search to end up at Bright Web? Did that take a while? Yeah. Tell us a little more about how that was for you.

Jill 9:04

Yeah. Um, the search found me, I wanna say that, uh, in the context of in 2010, my mom who is strong and alive and thriving today, she actually got diagnosed with her first cancer diagnosis. Oh my. So it was really shocking. I mean, it's her journey, but me being on the sidelines of witnessing and caring for someone that you love so much, it was hard. And we thought one cancer is hard. And then a year later when she went back for her checkup, it was another diagnosis of cancer.

Russel 9:37

Oh my gosh.

Jill 9:38

And that was heavy. Um,

Russel 9:40

I'm sure, yeah.

Jill 9:41

Two is, you know, extremely bad luck, I think. And then. A year and a bit later, another checkup, and it was actually her third diagnosis, so

Russel 9:50

Holy cow.

Jill 9:51

Yeah, that really winded me in the context of, again, kind of zooming out in life, going like, what are we really here for? There's no guarantee that we're gonna be here for a certain amount of time. How should we be spending our lives? If I am in a position where I'm laying on my. Death be. If I can look back at my life and go like, you know, what do I need to do? And not even from a career standpoint, what I took away from that was you need to make sure you're living true to who you are and living in integrity with yourself and making sure that you're not doing things that you should or that's the right thing to do. Like you will thrive if you are authentically you, is kind of the message that I got out of that. So, yeah, I mean years of, you know, therapy and meditation sessions and

Russel 10:33

yeah,

Jill 10:34

solo traveling is kind of. What allowed me to really hone in on. Let me make sure I'm living my life with intention. Every choice matters. Um, and it all compounds up to what I think accumulates to a good life.

Russel 10:48

It's so inspirational to hear this place. You got to unfortunately, it, you know where it had to come from, but. I think you shared, it sounds like your mom is live and well and has beat all that today.

Jill 10:59

Yes. Yeah. She's winning golf tournaments, like she's thriving. I think

Russel 11:02

it's She's doing that too then she's,

Jill 11:06

yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay. Those things where it's like, you know, hindsight's always so clear. It was a wake up call for me to go, Hey, how do you wanna do this? This is your journey.

Russel 11:14

Okay. So inspirational. Just to hear it is always just a wake up call. Sometimes it, it's harder to get through to folks, but look, we got one life and can we make it the best possible version of that life that it can be? It was interesting, I saw someone on LinkedIn the other day. They took the time to write their own obituary and just kind of talking through how powerful of an experience that was. Well, maybe you didn't write your own obituary. It sounded like you put yourself in that, like you said, near death shoes. Say, am I on the track I want to be in?

Jill 11:45

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean that's where it probably like between that experience and Bright Web, I think that's where I had the discernment to go, Hey, this is not for you. You know, not values aligned. Hey, does it actually bring you joy? So it's all those little checkpoints. I think our body actually does tell us that stuff. It's just, do we have the discernment to be able to hear it? Yeah, because we're so busy, we're busy, we're doing a lot. You hear those nudges and I think it's, you know, the thing, if you ignore the nudge, it's just gonna come louder next time and it comes in different ways. And so I was open to hearing it between the hard times and me trying to find my path. And I think that's where I was able to find clarity. I wouldn't say quickly, but more easily than I would have had I not gone through the challenging time.

Russel 12:29

Yeah. And so as far as Bright Web itself, did the owner call you up one day and, uh, now that there's just like, was this like a law of attraction that got you here or did you have to look at a lot of different companies or, and roles and opportunities before you said, you know what, this is what fits me.

Jill 12:46

Uh, I feel like it was. Aligned with the universe or God, whatever you believe in the upper higher system to be. I was only willing to apply at Bright Web. That was kind of my, okay, this is the crossroads of like, which path do I take? So I was like, I'll just take a leap. I'll just try Bright Web. And then having the conversations with the team and hearing about their work. It was so clear that it was just an amazing opportunity. I was lucky that they brought me in. They were also going through a time of transition where, it was the founder, it's been around since 2009, and so that was a good 10 years at the time. And the agency world is a lot. Yes. And it was a reflection time for the owner to consider like, what do I need and what do I want? And so on and so forth. So he was actually on the path of exiting. Bright Web and was actually looking for someone to purchase Bright Web. And so yeah, I was, you know, there to witness all that. We were very fortunate that Bright Web actually ended up going to the hands of one of his dear friends that he had known and, you know, worked in a business mindset group kind of thing from decades ago. And so the second owner of Bright Web was a good friend of the founder and he had no experience in agency. His primary interest of buying Bright Web was to actually maintain the goodness that he was doing in the world. So he took a leap and said, you gotta make sure Bright Web goes into the right hands. And to him it meant. Let's keep it going with how it is and the goodness that it's doing, and let's not lose that. So he took it on and yeah, I was on the leadership team going through various roles, director of project management operations, deputy managing director, and we were learning the waves with the team and the COVID budgets that existed. So it was like, a lot of learning on my end. Fast forward a few years. Yeah. The second owner had said, I, I think my time here as a steward of Bright Web has done. And so he actually had interest in selling the agency and I was a hundred percent there to support and I wanted to be able to give the most I can to make sure his exit was smooth. He deserved it. Very kind human. And yeah, so we started getting the valuation done. He had lightly marketed that Bright Web was potentially up for sale, and what we ended up seeing was a huge influx of people interested in Bright Web.

Russel 15:00

Oh man. There's a lot to unpack, even that little bit of your journey here, it's not too often you see outside of a family generational business, a three owners probably, especially within such a short time, but there was our plot twist and then if people didn't catch on to, yes, Brightweb is the company that you now own today, but what always love a employee to owner perspective. Yeah. And obviously you're, you're, you're not a rookie at this business yet, but you're, you're newer to it when you. Think about being able to witness that transition from the first owner to the second owner. How well did that prepare you for when you were stepping into those shoes?

Jill 15:40

Probably not enough. Um, there's just so much to a business. There's so many nuances. There's so many little things that can happen that can make something, be strong or not so strong. And I think every year that I've been in Bright Web, it's been a very different year. So the challenges that existed back then. Are not the same challenges that we're facing today. So, mm-hmm. Yeah. I think from a operational standpoint, there was a ton to learn from an emotional standpoint and the, the resistance training and such that it's a different story.

Russel 16:10

I can only even begin to imagine, or maybe, I can't imagine. I don't know. Okay. I mean, I guess too, another just curious question is obviously it's just the roles you named it sound like you were growing within the company before purchase. Was any part of that. Being facilitated as, Hey, someday you might take this over, even forget a transaction or something like that. Or was that just your own ambition, passion, skill, and aptitude shining through?

Jill 16:37

Am I allowed to say it's probably both. Um,

Russel 16:39

you can say whatever the truth is, whatever you want that to be, you can say

Jill 16:44

I believe it's both. Um, and the reason for that is because there was someone that was the managing director. She knew with the progression of how he wanted Bright Web to grow. Eventually she'd go to CEO and I would probably take over running the operations of Bright Web and all that aligned with yes, that is the path. One day, probably a few years from now. However, as the business needs change, then I would just step up. My willingness, my desire, my understanding of the organization. Understanding of the team, understanding of our services. It just made sense for me to progress up when there was a small gap. I would just take it.

Russel 17:15

Yeah. Because I think what, right people out there listening, I think a lot of them probably want a Jill in their own business as they start to think ahead about the exit or just taking some of the weight away, you know, from the day-to-day business. Well, I think ultimately there's all different ways you can go about it. I, I think everyone wants a little bit of that secret sauce of is it someone you find or is it someone you create? And where's that magic answer? Yeah.

Jill 17:43

It could be both. It depends on how your current shape of your team is and or who's within your organization. What I will share is if you think it's someone within, it would be so helpful and kind to them to be able to bring them into a lot of like what owners hold. Like they really hold onto things, right? Mm-hmm. There's a piece of whether it is. Uh, fear of sharing or a level of distrust, like all those are probably something as an honor you need to reflect on, but by bringing someone in and sharing, you know, that information, that burden, or whatever it might be. That will help only set them up for success. Um, I often felt that things were not shared with me, and so when I got to certain levels, it was always like, whoa, I had no idea that this is not sorted out from the outside. Mm. It looks like things were in order, but from the inside there was a lot of work that needed to be done. And, and there's that whole catch up time and every minute's valuable when you're trying to replace. Someone.'cause you have to have your eyes on everything. So to have your eyes on everything and then, Hey, where's our finance actual numbers at? Where are we at with KPIs? And to go, oh, there's none. That's a lot. Then I gotta go learn it. I gotta go learn it. I gotta know it. I gotta be able to delegate it. I gotta be able to catch it. And that's a lot for just like one piece of the business, let alone all the other things.

Russel 18:54

That's a great perspective. I mean, that's why, again, I think I just love the employee to owner stories. You've been on both sides of the table and sharing the notion of transparency there surprises are painful. And not that they might not be somewhat natural, but the more you can let people in the door let them experience what ownership looks and feels like. The better. You're both understand, hey, is this something that you know you can step into further or maybe is not the right thing for either one or either side. So always win with transparency.

Jill 19:24

Transparency. Also, I wanna say like the ego. Check your ego. Figure out why you don't wanna let go figure out why someone's new idea. Makes you feel a certain way. There's a piece of like just being willing to show up and learn and listen. Like we're all still learning. I think as agency owners, we don't know how to do all this. Like we're all still learning, right? And so there's a piece of learning more about yourself that I think people need to do as they are trying to let go of the reins to go, why do I feel this way? Why am I reacting this way?

Russel 19:51

Oh, you could get me on a whole tangent here, Jill. If we could just check a little more ego in the world, we might have a lot better world in front of us. Oh. Um, so that'll, that can be our shared next journey of how do we remove ego from the equation. Well, I think there'll be more perspective that'll come up as this can kind of ploy to owner, but, okay. So you go through the process of purchasing the business. From idea to signing the dotted line and you're now the owner, how long did that process really take?

Jill 20:21

It actually moved pretty quickly. I wanna say it probably happened within a five month span, but I also had a very kind mentor who was the second owner along the way, and was very generous with teaching me how to have conversations with, you know, financial institutions to be able to get backing and all that kind of stuff. So it was a whole other thing that I had to learn. But it actually went very smooth and all was very easy. It was not his first rodeo of selling a business to someone. So I feel like, you know, someone knew how the game had gone and so to have someone guide me through all that was super helpful. But yeah, five months. Five

Russel 20:59

months. Okay. So yeah, that's pretty fast. Uh, I think when from idea to execution there. Okay, you got the keys and I mean, obviously not, again, not too long ago this all happened, so that's great for us. It'll be fresh. What was that first I, what was the first 90 days like? I was gonna say year, but I'm just curious, what's the first 90 days look like for you?

Jill 21:20

It's so funny. So I had a friend who actually owns an agency. Anybody had said to me was, expect nothing to change in the context that I already was running the agency.'cause the second order was, you know, just there as a mentor and not in the day to day. So I was running it for three years and expect everything to change at the same time. I was like, what could you possibly mean by that? And boy, the day that you flip a switch, everything immediately felt heavier. Um, reality took in that like, you know. I'm responsible for making sure that my team is okay. Like I joke and I say I have, you know, 15 kids. That's the number of full-time team members that we have. I need to make sure their rent is paid. I need to make sure that they are progressing healthily in their career. I need to make sure that the clients that we're working for are taken care of. So, yeah, it becomes a much heavier piece. I wanna say the first thing is really just figuring out your finances and understanding the levers that need to be pulled within your organization when times do get tough. So I'm sure I'm not gonna be the first to admit it, and if I am, then so be it. But yeah, last year sucked. Last year was really hard. It's a hard year to become an owner in the market that we had, especially given that we are in the not-for-profit space for a lot of our clients. We're also with, you know, for good, for profit, but a lot of them are, you know, held by policies that government made changes into in January, and there was a lot of like funding that was pulled. So it was a lot of hardship. So I think it was again, like taking a step back, zooming out and going, okay, well, like. What are our levers that I have control over during these hard times to know what we can pull and lift and shift so that we're gonna be okay as a business. So it's just, you know, deeper knowledge of the numbers, I think is what the first 90 days really felt like.

Russel 23:02

Well, and I mean it takes some owners many years. I think to even get to that realization, you kind of got faced with it and realized that that was something important very early on and right. It there's more levers in a proverbial agency car than gas and brakes, and you have many more controls that need to be measured and understood to really run an effective organization or one that can at least grow.

Jill 23:29

I had help from my freshman. Upsource Upsource helped me up.

Russel 23:32

Upsource helped you. Okay. Shout out to Upsource. Great organization as well. Um, love their content and yeah, I mean, I think that's just the important thing if some of the owners that get to where they want to go a little faster. Get help. Yeah. Sounds like you knew that right away.

Jill 23:49

Check that. Go ask for help. Yep.

Russel 23:50

Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So all the more credit to your journey for going and finding help and just for those listening out there that if not familiar with Upsource, I'm sure they'll slap my hand on how I describe it, but they're basically what, or maybe you should describe what is Upsourced. You can tell us.

Jill 24:04

I wanna say they're an organization that will help you figure out your finances and they, I believe they do take care of all the accounting services as well, but they just had such wisdom from a higher level, I wanna say from like a CFO level to help us figure out what those are. They do an amazing job making sure that is clearly understood, you know, their technical financial terms. It, I got it. I know it. And they helped me get there. They're probably gonna slap my wrist for how I described it.

Russel 24:28

Well, lucky for you, yours is the most truthful'cause you're experiencing it from the customer angle, so you get a pass more than I might. Um, but no, that's, that's really explained in that function in the business of any growing businesses. You know, having a CFO level, not just bookkeeping for tax purposes, but a CFO level analysis of your business is very powerful. So. Glad you got there. What do you miss about being an employee and what do you not miss about the being on the employee side? Or is that list too long? Do we need a whole nother episode for that?

Jill 25:00

I think I'm still processing it. What I do say is, man, I miss the day of being an employee. And what I mean by that is that like you get to show up to work and do your thing and then you get to shut off for the most part and your day ends. Brain, brain is never shut off, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, I'm lying in bed sometimes reading business books or listening to podcasts or preparing a presentation. And so first of all, I do enjoy it. I'll say that much like I, I am enthused and I do love the work that we do, so much that I have the desire and energy to do that, but the days where I'm like, I'm just tired, and I would love to just shut off. I feel like I can't do that, so I miss that part the most.

Russel 25:42

That really hits home and you're just making me think and reflect on, and I pretty much, most of my professional life, outside of some time in the military, I've been an entrepreneur, but I was thinking about my time in the military and when five o'clock or whatever the day ended. It was done. It was done until the next day, or if it was a weekend. Not that I haven't learned to take some time away, but I don't know that it's ever truly possible to shut it off completely.

Jill 26:08

Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. There's always gonna be that like. Lingering or subconscious feeling like I have an amazing team behind me. I was able to go away for three weeks, um, a couple months into my ownership and everything was functioning. This is a benefit of, like, I understand that the hard, hard journey of a founder, there's also a hard journey in acquiring an agency, but there's also a small benefit of, it does have an existing team. And so yes, I do trust my team. I am able to let go and delegate. However, you're still wondering. You're still curious.

Russel 26:40

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, even to the positive side, right? Even if it's not, sometimes the heaviness, it's the just new ideas of some new thing you want to go implement or a new concept you read or learn about that's like, well, I wanna go try that. It's nine o'clock on a Friday night. I can't try this until Monday, technically. Um, I guess you can, but yeah, I totally feel that. I mean, kinda speaking on the team. Just knowing you, I just have to imagine you're a very human-centric person, and you even just described this notion, I was almost like, like in it, you, you have 15 kids now, and I think maybe that was the difference of employed owners. They were your nieces and nephews. Now they're your kids. Um, uh, you're, you're now responsible for them. But what is an important concept to your leadership journey that allows you to show up and do the work you're doing?

Jill 27:26

Oh gosh. I feel like it's because I can't do it alone. Again, there's no ego there. Uh, in the context of like my job as a project manager. In order for me to be successful, I needed to make sure that my, devs were set up for success and my design team were set up for success. And I feel like that's the same, I suppose, point of view that I carry in the context of like, we are who we are because of my amazing team. I feel like I hold a couple responsibilities as an owner. The first is making sure that, again, my team is set up for success. That my team feels safe at work, that my team has the opportunity to use their skillset, that my team has, the agency to be able to make impact. That's super important to me. And when they do leave, they look back and go, my time at Bright Web was amazing. Good work, great environment, great people, all the things. So I feel that I carry the weight there. My job is to make sure they shine it is uplifting them, and then in turn, if they can show up beautifully as themselves with their talent and their ability to create new things. Our clients who are doing amazing things in the world will only be better off. So yeah, I don't know if that answered your question, but I think it's, you know, part of what I carry with me is knowing that I can't do the journey alone. My success is only successful when I have others around me and with me. We're obviously better as a team. We all know that trying to do something on your own. Yes, you will get it done, but like will you get it done? Well, probably not. Not as well Anyway, so yeah, I think this journey is not about me. This journey is about the many and even bigger than that. So that's where I try and humbly show up of like, this isn't about me, it's bigger than me.

Russel 28:58

You, you more than answer the question. And I, I think that's, uh, you know, one way or another I think that's gonna hit an owner in the face is humans are the power of an agency business. That's, well, we have some tools to help along the way. We're a human centered business. And I love just the initial question that you shared of are you setting them up for success? The

Jill 29:18

agency. You know, from what I know and what I remember and what's shown, it's like the agency is like a hustle. You're going, you're grinding. But while that was okay or maybe still is okay for some, it's just, it doesn't feel right to me. And again, because it's like how do I make everyone the best version of themselves? It's just like giving'em the space to do that, but it's not grinding them. It's not like pushing down hard on them. No one thrives in that environment. My opinion. That's the quick path to burnout, right?

Russel 29:45

And it's a path to eventual nowhere. Some get luckier, I think, in that path to nowhere than others, and I think to give some. Fairness, right? There are either phases or even maybe as a smaller agency where you are just hustle and that's kind of the way of the game. But that's not sustainable. That is not gonna carry through long term. And if you don't figure out all the things that you were sharing earlier, or creating a safe space, setting people up for success, building whatever needs to be built in to make sure that that's the way their agency runs and operates, I think it's gonna be a tough journey.

Jill 30:15

Yeah, I agree.

Russel 30:16

So when you ask that question of yourself as a leader, are you setting them up for success? How do you answer that? How do you know what that looks like? Or how do you get informed about what you do with that information?

Jill 30:28

You know, I have the gift of having a small team, and so I feel like setting someone up for success might mean different things to people. So it's really knowing who they are and like what they need. There's also having the right people in place to be able to create those systems and make sure they're upheld. I have an amazing. Leadership team and you know, with me along the journey will always be someone that is making sure our people are okay. So yeah, I think it's like collecting information from the team, figuring out like what they need and how they're feeling and making sure that that matters to us and that we're, we're safe. Keeping that regarding that and. Becomes part of like our DNA of how we need to operate as an organization. So it is without a doubt, people first. And I think if you're gonna meet any of my team member, I feel confident to say that they would feel that. Yeah, we all treat each other with kindness and respect. It's just so beautiful. It's such a like synergistic thing if that's the intention of Bright Web, not even me.'cause I also inherited some of this. People first kind of, um, environment, if we all show up, knowing that we are meant to serve others and help each other grow, and hey, have fun along the way and make impact like. I think I have to trust that things will work out. We gotta just take care of each other.

Russel 31:36

Interesting. I mean, that is the type of investment that doesn't always show up tomorrow in the bottom line or the next sale or whatever, but it is the type of investment that grows a tree that bears fruit. And that was certainly the case in my own entrepreneurial journey. And what I always like to share is, look, I don't know if there's anyone that was doing it worse, um, in the first few years of me running an agency and that growth path. Which made it all the more sweeter when I figured out. I think a lot of the same values and things that you're sharing, and maybe just even summarize those is, is what I, you know, was thinking in my head as you were sharing that as one goes back to our conversation earlier about ego, that you have to have a sense of humbleness. This isn't about you, this is about the mission you're on. This is about the people that are gonna carry that out and can you check that ego at the door? And then can you be tuned in? Can you listen? Can you genuinely tune in and show up to better understand people individually to better understand how the whole thing's working?

Jill 32:34

Yes, that sounds about right, but I think you should be kind to yourself. I'm still learning it too. We're all learning, but like we also never had people to show us that way. Right. I didn't. Anyway. Yeah. So I, I think, you know, if that was part of your journey, hey, how would you know any better?

Russel 32:48

Well, it is so true. I mean, um, there's this concept and I think we're learning this, especially the agency space. I think it tends to be a little more progressive in human based employment practices. There may be other industries, but I don't know, and Canada may or may not be different. You could answer to this, but. You know, so much of our thought process around how to manage, how to lead, how to run a business is so rooted in the manufacturing age mindset, or the industrial age mindset of command and control. And if we wanna do creative, thought driven strategic work, a command and control environment is gonna be real tough to be successful in that.

Jill 33:27

A hundred percent. Yes. I mean, just with anything good or bad, there's always something to learn in there. And I think in that manufacturing piece, it's like, I don't wanna undermine the process that needs to be in place in order to do the business to be able to support your people. So a hundred percent, I think we were all meant to be cogs in a wheel. That's what, that's what the education system taught us. We're amazing at memorizing things. Like there's a, and I kind of wanna forget all that and deprogram all that and just go back to like, Hey, I bet we know. Trying to lean more into the human side of things while making sure we're taking the things that did work, which is process and whatever, KPIs or whatever, you know, things that are required or worked for that cog machine, um, into this. But making sure that it's process and people, it's not just process and get things done, you know?

Russel 34:10

Yeah. I love that word you said there, deprogram what asking ourselves, taking a hard look at what needs to be deprogrammed maybe even before we reprogram or begin the programming process.

Jill 34:21

Yeah, that's exactly it. Because when you're thinking of change, it's always like, what should we add in? Like you've heard that all before. Instead of like, I wanna make my life better. Let's add a new habit. Well, how about we start easier and think about things that we stop doing or take away? Right.

Russel 34:34

Yeah. I will stand behind that. I tend to fall in the camp where, where is the less is more answer Yes. Before we look at the more is more and fundamentals. I, I think that's been a through line and so much of the conversations I've had on agency story and with clients is the less is more. What can we take away? The foundations, the basics. If we really just hone in on those, it tends to work out pretty good.

Jill 34:58

Love that, but sometimes going simple feels hard, which is interesting.

Russel 35:02

It's hard. I mean, what's a, you ever heard the old, uh, saying, I'm sorry, if I had more time, I would've written a shorter letter.

Jill 35:10

Yeah, exactly.

Russel 35:12

It's so true. Simple is hard. But I correlate that with, uh, that there is no easy money. And if you want to create a lot of value, if you wanna receive a lot of value, you have to solve something hard. So maybe you have to do the simple thing.

Jill 35:25

Right. Wow, that's deep. That's a whole other, whole other episode.

Russel 35:30

Yeah. That's very good. Well, I mean, I, you have a lot of what we collaborated to get to this. I mean, right. This was just a really great riffing, I think, to even get to some of these in thoughts. So really great takeaway, and it's really been interesting to see how you've implemented that in your journey. I wish we had a couple more hours to, to talk through these, but unfortunately we don't. So I'm just curious, as you're looking at the future, what does the future hold? What are you trying to achieve with Bright Web?

Jill 35:59

Uh, I wanna stay true to who we are. I wanna be able to help organizations who are out there trying to make a difference, make sure that their stories are clear, that people understand what they're trying to do, that they're able to get people in motion to help with the work that they're trying to do in the world. So, yeah, I think it's still gonna stay on the journey of uplifting others. That piece is important. I think regardless of where the world goes or whatever it turns into, there's gonna be a piece where we all need to make sure we're taking care of each other. And helping and you know, caring for one another. So I'm gonna stay true to that and trust that that will always have work, because there's always gonna be a concerted effort to improve something. So,

Russel 36:36

man, I'm excited. I wanna see Bright Web continue to do that. Very inspired by our conversation. And I'm just curious now to hear your answer to one last big question. Are entrepreneurs born or are they made.

Jill 36:50

I'm gonna go with, they're made. Um, as I shared with my journey, what I found was that like life happens to you and it's, you know, how do you become who you are? It's, uh, the people you meet, the books you read, and the things that happen to you. So I don't think you can't get that without being formed or shaped. So that's my final answer.

Russel 37:09

Final answer. Well, uh, if people wanna know more about Bright Web, where can they go?

Jill 37:15

Uh, lingo to Bright WebCom. We're also active on Instagram, which Bright Web, I should say Bright Web is spelled B-R-I-T-E-W-E-B. So find us there. Um, but yeah, thank you so much for having me on today. I enjoyed our conversation.

Russel 37:30

I did as well. And just for the folks at home too, when this launches, you can go to the agency story website. We'll have the links to all of Jill's social and business there, as well as anything we mentioned in this episode, like Upsource links to some of that. Um, but thank you, Jill, first and foremost, for taking the time outta your schedule to share your journey. The highs, the lows, but specifically just. Going deep dive into what it's like to transfer an employee to owner, and just all the reminders and nuggets about how to run a human-centered business, how important it is, and how important it is to live your true self, your true values, and make sure that this is all on the path that you want to be on. Really appreciate you taking the time to share that with us today.

Jill 38:12

Thank you and I appreciate you for doing what you do. It's really cool to hear and learn about other agency owners' experiences too. So yeah, I enjoy your content. As much as I hope this can inspire and help others too,

Russel 38:22

it surely will. Thank you. Thank you for listening to an agency story podcast where every story helps write your own. Subscribe, share, and join us again for more real stories, lessons learned, and breakthroughs ahead. What's next? You'll want to visit an agency story.com/podcast and follow us on Instagram at an agency story for the latest updates.

Jill 38:47

There was a time when I was, you know, listening to a call and I had my daughter and she must have been like four at the time, and I was so trying to juggle both watching her and listening to call and so she was into this thing. I was like, let's have a steering contest. And I was like, totally. So having staring contest, I thought my camera was off. I dunno, on camera off, I just look like this crazy person just staring and then you could see a little finger come and she tries to like distract me. So yeah, it's like a weird clip of I'm sure my daughter trying to pick my nose while I'm in a call trying to be serious internal call.

Russel 39:22

Yeah, no, that's perfect. Just this, I love this. Like, what's wrong with Jill? Why is she just got this deadpan stare or whatever?

Jill 39:30

Just like this, just staring.

Russel 39:33

Oh, that's funny. Like, oh man, what did we say? That's probably what they're thinking. What did we say? Oh man, that's perfect. So thank you for sharing that.