The Six-Pack Job Pitch That Didn’t Work - Neff

What does it take to build an agency that lasts decades and still love it? In this episode, Russel Dubree sits down with David Neff, founder of Neff, to explore the mindset behind a long, successful agency career. From relentless hustle to building powerful media relationships, David shares how creativity, persistence, and finding the "sexy" in every client account creates endless passion for his agency business.

Key Takeaways

• David shares how relentless outreach and creativity helped him open doors early in his career.
• Major opportunities often come from knowing the right people and pitching the right story at the right time.
• Leaders must continually learn new technologies and ideas so they can guide clients effectively.
• Maintaining a lean team can help agencies stay resilient during economic shifts.
• Even unexpected industries can become exciting when you uncover the deeper story behind a client’s impact.

Transcript

Neff

Russel 0:01

Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where owners and experts share the real journey, the early struggles, the breakthrough moments, and everything in between, I'm your host Russel Dubree, former eight figure agency owner, turned business coach. Sold my agency and now helps agency leaders create their ideal business. Every agency has a story, and this is your front row seat. This is an agency story. Welcome to the show today, everyone. I have David Neff with us here today with Neff, and welcome to the show today, David.

David 0:39

Thank you, Russell. It's nice to be here.

Russel 0:41

Well, I'm glad to have you kick us off right outta the gate. Tell us what Neff does and who you do it for.

David 0:46

Sounds good. We are a full service marketing communications company. To use one word to describe us, I would use the word diverse. Because of not only the services that we offer are very diverse and the clients that we serve are also very diverse. So we are a small but mighty agency of about 20 people, and we do, creative services, branding, logos, corporate identities, websites, collateral material, all content is done in-house by our creative department. We have a, a very robust PR department. We have a social media department. And, um, we also do media buying and advertising. So. That is the diverse range of services that we offer. We also, as I mentioned before, have a. Client mix. So we started out when I first started the business as a B2B agency, because that was the business that I came from. But over time, no disrespect to B2B accounts, but I found some of the B2B accounts not as sexy as retail, hospitality, tourism, and real estate. So over time we evolved into those categories of clients and we also have done a lot in hospitality, so it keeps us busy and no two days are the same.

Russel 2:26

I can totally imagine with that diverse mix, and it's important as Justin Timberlake would say, to bring sexy back and we gotta love and have some passion for the work we do. But, no doubt where are you doing all this diverse work from? Where are you located?

David 2:40

We are headquartered in Philadelphia, so our office is literally two blocks away from Independence Hall and the Liberty Bell. We also have a very small office in New York City that serves as our New York, like, it's like a satellite office, but all the work is done out our Philadelphia office.

Russel 3:01

Nice. Alright, well. It sounds like, well, there's a lot of interesting stories and work world need to get to, but before all that, I'd love to hear about Young David. As I understand you've been in this business a long time, but even before your business days, what was Young David doing with his life?

David 3:22

Well, young David, went to, um, I required the discipline of a private school, so, you know,

Russel 3:29

I'm, you required the discipline. Okay. Yeah. Not, not good to know.

David 3:37

So fortunately my parents were able to, you know, afford to send me to a private school because I required that discipline. So in seventh grade, I went to a school. The name of the school is Penn Charter stands for William Penn Charter School, founded by William Penn. And yeah, it was, so I started there in seventh grade and then I've been in Philadelphia my entire life. Born and raised in the area. The only years I was not here were the four years that I was in college, which was in upstate New York. I went to Ithaca College in Ithaca, New York.

Russel 4:15

All right. What were you majoring in? What, what? What were you learning here?

David 4:19

My major was business management with a minor in marketing. I started out as a liberal arts. Student with a major in economics and I changed to the business school and with emphasis in marketing also, it has a great advertising communications program. So I took a lot of courses in those areas as well.

Russel 4:41

And then, yeah, graduated with this. And what were, what was the young career like for you?

David 4:46

Well, my dream was to get my first job on Madison Avenue in New York City. I was interviewing with all the big firms in New York and my uncle, who was a legendary creative director. He worked for the Young and Rubic, a family of companies. When he found out he lived in Connecticut, when he found out that young David wanted to be in the advertising business. He said, David, why don't you live with me and the family in Westport, Connecticut, and you can work outta my office and we can commute to the city together every day. I'm like, okay, uncle Mike, that sounds great. So I'm kind of a hustler. So I would like target agency presidents and high level account supervisors, and I would. Make cold calls to them before nine o'clock, between 12 and one or after five, where my call would be less likely to be screened.

Russel 5:55

You're just calling to try to get him on the phone and see if he can wrangle a job here?

David 5:58

Exactly. Wow. And then, you know, my uncle Mike, Mike Slosberg is his name still living, you know, he made a couple phone calls for me as well. So I'm interviewing like crazy and. Backer Spielvogel, very big, well respected ad agency at the time. They handled the Miller High Life account and I made it to be one of the finalists, interviewing as to be the assistant on the Miller High Life media buying account. So this is in 1982. And the range of salaries for entry level jobs in Madison Avenue firms was 11 to 13.

Russel 6:48

Yeah,

David 6:49

so I'm a finalist on the Miller highlights. Media buying account. I go to my Uncle Mike, like I was like kind of creative, but not really. But I was smart enough to say, Hey, uncle Mike, he's a creative director, uncle Mike. I need a really great idea for a follow up from my interview at Backer and Spielvogel. He said, David, why don't you buy a six pack of Miller highlights, empty out all the bottles, and then we will write. Different reasons why David Neff is the best candidate for this position. And we will glue each reason to the top of the bottle cap. So when you undo the bottle, it'll have six different reasons on why is the most qualified candidate to help with the media buying on the Miller Highlight account. Great idea. Didn't get the job.

Russel 7:44

Oh, dang it. I thought this was gonna be such a inspirational lesson for young folks today. No, no, no. What's, you know, a lot of'em share is a tough job market that, but, dang it,

David 7:52

so I lost a job to a young lady who had worked on the Budweiser media buying account. So it was like a no brainer for them to hire her over me. Then I stepped back and I was like, listen. To myself, this is your first job in advertising. Maybe it makes more sense for your first job in advertising to be in Philadelphia, where I could freeload and live with my father who had a nice house in the middle of the city. So that made more sense. So I came back to Philadelphia. I realized making 11 to$13,000 a year. If I got that job at Backer and Spielvogel, I was gonna have to live in an apartment with like 10 other guys.

Russel 8:40

Yeah, I mean that sounds like minimum wage. I, I don't know what the math comes out on minimum wage, but I know it was a little different back then, but that had to be close to it.

David 8:48

Yeah. As you know, the best of economic times, the worst of economic times. The entry level salaries in advertising because there's always so many more people who wanna get in than there are positions available. So the entry level salaries in advertising tend to be pushed down much lower than what you know, young people could get. Jobs, but the people that really want to get in advertising, they kind of get that. And being in advertising is a very lucrative career. So you more than make up for it over time if you're good. So, but entry level, the salaries are still significantly lower than what a lot of these young folks can earn in other types of positions.

Russel 9:39

Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, so we're back at home now, and where did we finally get your first start?

David 9:46

So, I was an intern at a well-respected, medium-sized agency after my junior year. They had a lot of good accounts, a lot of real estate accounts. I learned a lot about real estate and I got to shadow the owner and president of the company. I would schlep like 50 pound bags of dog food, from the store that sold the dog food into my boss's, late model seven series BMW. But back then, that's what interns did. You did whatever you needed to do. Yeah, you can't ask an intern to do that today. Today it's like, oh, are you enjoying your experience here at, what else can we do to make your experience. So that's the way the business is today.

Russel 10:36

Bit change for sure.

David 10:38

Anyway, so I worked there as an intern to make sure. I thought it would be and more so then I finished senior year in in Ithaca. I came home and I started, my first job was the lowest form of life at an ad agency. I was the assistant. The traffic manager at a well-respected, medium-sized agency in Philadelphia that had a couple national accounts. They had the Albert Nippon account, which at the time was a very well-respected couture woman's clothing brand, and they also had the Nutrisystem account. So after I was there for like a day or two, I realized the only reason I was hired is so the traffic manager could march my little ass around the agency and tell everyone, this is my assistant.

Russel 11:33

Oh, okay. Yeah. I I'm getting pictures of you we're still carrying dog food probably at this point, uh, as an assistant traffic manager, but, uh, you know, maybe there's a little more glory than that to be found.

David 11:43

Yeah. So. The name of the agency was Alton Cohen and Nash. It really took about 20 hours a week, which left me a lot of time. So I would meet with all of the account executives at the agency and beg, borrow, and steal, do whatever I needed to do for them to give me projects that, or responsibilities that they hated. So that way I would learn more about the business.

A Strategy to Succeed

Russel 12:19

There you go. There's the hustler showing through again, I like this.

David 12:22

YY, yes. So I worked there as the traffic manager for about six months and I was like, oh, I think I can like meet with clients now. I think I could bring a client on now. I don't think I wanna work here for five, 10 years before they let me do what I think I'm capable of doing now. So I met with the owner. The partner that hired me, I said, listen, living with my dad and I'd like to move out, get my own. Can you gimme more money? And I'll show you how stupid I was. I mean, most people, they don't have that conversation until they have another job lined up. So I didn't have another job lined up. I just said, Hey, I'd like to make more money. Can you gimme more money? He said, no, we're losing client A and we're losing client Z. So we're tightening our belts. We'd love for you to stay on board, but we can't give you any more money. I said, okay, well will you write me a nice letter of recommendation? They said, sure. I'm like, okay. So I got my nice letter of recommendation and I was out the door. So now I'm reevaluating my career in advertising. I still love, and I'm very passionate about the pursuit of a career in advertising, but now I'm saying to myself, well, the entry level pay is so low. I know that I can sell. Why don't I get involved in sales in a hot industry and then parlay that industry experience back into an agency that has an account in that area.

Russel 13:51

Okay,

David 13:52

so there was no internet. There was no social media. So the hot industry in the early eighties, early to mid eighties was telecommunications. Judge Green made a ruling that At&t had to divest of, of all of the telephone services and that. So I'm like, okay, telecom's gonna be it. I figured I would get a commission only sales job. I called At&t. They weren't hiring. I called MCI. They weren't hiring. I called Sprint. They were like one of the leading resellers of long distance. They weren't hiring either. And then I landed. An interview and landed my first job working for the first reseller of At&t. So I got a job working for, the name of the company was TMC Telemarketing Communications, and so I was like one of the top salespeople in the country. Philadelphia was the 13th market that they opened up and after about six months, I was a top performer.

Russel 15:01

This is not surprising by the way. I mean, it sounds like a great spot for David, the Hustler to be talking about this innovative product we say, for the time at least. And um, so this is making perfect sense.

David 15:15

They had four offices in the Philadelphia region and I went to the owner that hired me and I said, listen, you need a regional director of marketing and I'm your guy. He's like, but David, I don't have a marketing budget. I said, don't worry. All of the radio stations, all the billboard companies, the magazine. The newspapers, newspapers, they're all spending thousands and thousands of dollars every month on long distance. I'm gonna negotiate trade agreements with all of them. He's like, okay, go for it. I'm like, I reached, I made a lot of trade agreements with all these different media companies. We were everywhere. The creative was kind of amateurish, but it was like, you know, the best I could do. But we were very visible. And then one day, because it was so volatile and the rulings kept changing, the people in the media would write about long distance phone calling a lot. So one day I'm reading the inquires, the feature in the business section, And I read the article with great interest. They quoted At&t, MCI, and Sprint in the article, and I read it and I was like, wow, you know, we're like 30, 40% less than the lowest rate in his story. So I figure out who wrote the story. This guy Neil Browski, who I'm still friendly with. I said, Neil, I, I got his phone number. I'm like, Neil, I just read your story about calling within the state of Pennsylvania. Clearly you're unaware of the company that I work for. He said, well, what company is that? I said, it's telemarketing communication. From that point forward, he never wrote an article on long distance calling without quoting me or my boss, and without quoting a rate from our company. So between the amateur ad campaign that I had launched. And the exposure that we got from arguably the number one media outlet in the region, the Philadelphia Inquirer phones were ringing off the hook for this company. What I did for the Inquirer, I'm like, wow, that is the number one media outlet. Now I'm just gonna go to all the media outlets with the same pitch. And that's what I did and I increased the customer base for this company. In nine months,

Russel 17:49

I can imagine.

David 17:50

And then two or three companies in telecommunications and in other B2B areas found out that I was the guy behind this campaign and they solicited me to submit marketing proposals, advertising proposals, to do a similar program for what I had done for the company that I was just employed by.

Russel 18:14

Is this the birth of NEF then and the agency?

David 18:17

Yes. That's correct.

Russel 18:19

Your, your plan worked is, is what I'm hearing here.

David 18:22

It did work. It didn't happen the way I thought it would as most plane go. Like, yeah.

Russel 18:28

Yeah.

David 18:29

I figured if I failed completely, I could go work for another telecommunications company or I could go work for another ad agency.

Russel 18:37

So I could be completely wrong about this thought, but Right. Just with all the things, communication, social media in today's age, that the idea of being off on your own and starting a business is a little more pervasive than it might've been in the early eighties. I, I don't know. Am I wrong in that? Or like, was this just a really big risk to go do something like this? At the time period?

David 18:56

People say that to me and I was like, I always say to everyone, I was like, there was no risk. I had no wife. I had no girlfriend that I was serious with. I had no dog. I had no mortgage. I had like a small apartment, you know, in Philadelphia. So if I failed miserably, I had nothing to lose. Now had I been married and had kids at the time, and then you leave that corporate job to start your own agency, that sounds like a little scarier to me. But at my young age, I guess I was like 26 at the time, you know, I had nothing to lose, so. It didn't seem like that big of a risk.

Russel 19:46

It definitely helps to have lower expenses. I, I think the same thing. I was around the same age when I started my agency, and I don't know if Russell's needs and lifestyle at a later date would have, um, so easily accommodated the rough parts of the early days and income and all that.

David 20:02

Exactly,

Russel 20:03

so you're off and running and starting your own agency. We'll never get to all the amazing stories. I'm sure you have over, over your amazing career here, but you've had to have some interesting case studies. What were one or two maybe in the early part of your journey, just pivotal case studies and impact on you, the impact you had on the clients? What did that look like?

David 20:24

So in eight, have. Steakhouse Chain Del Frisco's Double Eagle Steakhouse. Oh,

Russel 20:33

yes, yes.

David 20:35

Okay. So Del Frisco's was opening up a location in Philadelphia and they were interviewing PR firms and they interviewed Neff and made the decision to not go with Neff, but to go with another PR firm. Of course I wasn't happy, but you know, you win some, you lose some. It's the nature of the business. So I went on my way and I got a phone call two weeks after they had hired this PR firm and got a phone call from the general manager in Philadelphia. I was talking to Mark Menky, the CEO of Delcos at the time, and Mark was wondering whether you would be interested in meeting with him. He's gonna be in Philadelphia in two weeks to discuss the Delcos and Sullivan Steakhouse national brands, whether you could help us with those brands. So of course I said, oh my God, that sounds great. Yeah, I'm delighted to meet with Mark, you know, at his convenience. So Mark interviewed me and my firm. But long story short is we at Neff based in Philadelphia, landed the national account for dlf Frisco's Double Eagle Steakhouse, and the Sullivan Steakhouse Group. National PR for both brands. National advertising for both brands. It was a like a$2.3 million budget. So 2008, as you REM may recall, was not a great year. It was great for us because we had just landed that account. So every agency is sucking wind in Philadelphia. They're like letting go of lots of people and I'm like, you know, hiring, kicking. Of course it was a matter time, everything. And with Frisco about nine months later, mark Ance said, David, you guys have done a great job. I'm not gonna hire another ad agency. I'm not gonna hire another PR firm, but I need that 2.3 million budget to fall down to my bottom line. So we're gonna, you know, stop things.

Russel 22:48

Oh man.

David 22:48

I was like, mark, I understand. Thank you for handling like such a gentleman. So it was, it was a great experience. We did some great work for them, but it went away.

Russel 23:00

I guess just question, you know, things were lean, during that time period. I mean, what did, losing a big account like that, how did that affect your business?

David 23:08

My tendency was always to not overextend myself with hiring just because of landing an account. So. I was fairly conservative, which then meant that, you know, people were working very hard, but I didn't really have to let anyone go when we lost that account.

Getting a Client on a National TV Show

Russel 23:25

Alright, name me some names and let me pick my own adventure here on other case study stories to hear.

David 23:31

Getting Belfor Property Restoration, featured on Undercover Bus on CBS.

Russel 23:36

Okay.

David 23:37

Launching goPuff. Nine markets throughout the country, but their corporate headquarters was in Philadelphia. Asher's Chocolate, which is a revered local chocolate brand doing PR and social media for them. In fact, we just got Asher's Chocolate featured on David MU's, A BC Nightly News Made in America Segment. If you go to my Instagram account or LinkedIn or Facebook, you'll see the segment and I'm actually also in the segment.

Russel 24:10

Let's go with the Undercover Boss. We always love a good primetime television show story, so share that one if you don't mind.

David 24:17

So through this organization that I'm very involved with, I had met some of the shareholders of Belfor Property Restoration. This guy, he still involved with the company. His name is Daryl Tno. He's a great guy. Darrell said, Hey, David, you know, just met with Sheldon Yellen, the CEO of the company. We had a leadership meeting and a few of us were saying how great it would be if we could get Sheldon featured on Undercover Boss. So everyone thought of you and your name was brought up. So I'm asking you, David, do you think you could get Sheldon on Undercover Boss?

Russel 24:56

So this is like a campaign being brought in just to get someone on a TV show, essentially.

David 25:01

Basically. And I said to Darl, I said, darl. We don't do one-offs. You can't really hire enough to like just get you on Undercover Boss. But it's a great company. It's a great brand. I would love to learn more. And I'm not saying I'll do this, I'm not saying I won't do it. I, I'd like to learn more about Sheldon's journey. So can you set up a time for me to meet with Sheldon to hear a story? We set up a call, heard. Sheldon's story. Story. It's a rags to riches story.

Russel 25:38

Everybody loves that.

David 25:39

It's the best story ever. I said, you know, I think we'd have a pretty good chance of getting Sheldon on Undercover Boss based on what I'd heard. We worked out a deal where I would, you know, get compensated for me and my PR team's time and, uh. We got on

Russel 26:00

and, and were you able to parlay that into a bigger relationship?

David 26:05

Yes and no. We did a couple long form video projects for Belfor. We also launched Belfor in about three different markets with an outdoor advertising program. And then we did some like ongoing PR for about three or four months after that.

Russel 26:21

Okay. And what ended up being the secret sauce of getting him on? If you can share of like how, how did you actually make that happen?

David 26:27

It's all about relationships. It's like finding out who the right people are that are making the decisions and, you know, pitching the story. So the production company that was hired, we found out who the production company was. We found out who the people were, and I've shared with them the story that Sheldon shared with me about his career and his life. And of course, they thought he'd be great. Uh, no one cried more on an undercover boss episode than Sheldon Yellen. And he revealed himself also to some of his workers because he broke down and started crying in this, during the segment.

Bringing Howard Stern to Philly

Russel 27:06

Well, fascinating. I mean, I, and I'm sure there's many more that we, we could make a series long podcast episode on the case studies of Neff.

David 27:14

Yes. We were also the agency that brought Steven Singer Jewelers to the Howard Stern Show.

Russel 27:22

Okay. Now I, I know Stephen Singer. I think, uh, what is it? The billboard they have of, and it actually got me to go to the website while I was driving. Was, what is their tagline? I,

David 27:33

I hate Stephen Singer.

Russel 27:34

Yeah, yeah.

David 27:35

Which I didn't do, but I was the one who came up with the idea and actually got him on Howard Stern, and he still on Howard Stern to this day.

Russel 27:42

Oh, really?

David 27:43

Yep. Well, Philadelphia was a test market. So Howard Stern was on on Kroc in New York City exclusively, and they decided to try him in another market and it was Philadelphia. And the guy who was charged with trying to bring advertisers to the Howard Stern Show was a very good buddy of mine. We had a great relationship and he wanted to make me and my agency look really good and he gave me like the deal of all deals. On Howard Stern Show, and not only that, we negotiated that the clients that would bring on that Howard Stern himself, would actually do the

Love to Hustle

Russel 28:30

a theme. I don't know if this is how you think about it, or, I don't wanna oversimplify it by any means, but we, we've talked about it several times about, this hustler attitude that you've had since such a young age, but that if we were to boil that down into some sense of a recipe that it's. Understand who the players are, understand what they want, and then pitch them an idea that Mary's or gives them essentially what they want in the long run. I mean, is that how you're thinking about it and looking at it in all these various situations that you experienced throughout your career?

David 29:00

I agree with you. You have to be creative, you have to be strategic, and you have to be thoughtful and you have to like, you know, come to work every day. Like you have to, you know, be a hustler and you have to, uh, be a grinder.

Russel 29:12

Okay. Yeah. Well there's certain all kinds of ways to make it work, but I don't know. That just sounds like, you know, obviously that's been really effective for you and made for a lot of interesting stories in your career. For sure.

David 29:22

Yeah. I still love what I do. And I look forward to going to work every day.

Russel 29:27

That's awesome. Well, I know there's some secret sauce there too that I want to get to, but, you know, just given the span of your career and having your agency, you've, as you were sharing about 2008, you've seen a shift or two, whether that be the economy or whether that be changes in technology. What has that ultimately taught you and words advice to others about how to navigate some of these major turning points within the agency business?

David 29:51

Well, if you're in the agency business. You need to provide for your clients leadership and direction. So it's very hard to keep up with technology and what's going on today, like now, the hot topic is ai, so it's up to agency people to not only stay on top of it, but to stay ahead of it. And that's very hard, but the way you do it is you hire people that are smarter than you're that understand. On my team, I have a lot of really smart, creative people on my team. And I listen to them most of the time. Um, but

Russel 30:26

at least you're being honest there.

David 30:28

Yeah. If you wanna keep an account for a long term, you have to constantly be growing their brand. And the way you do that is by staying ahead of all of the advertising, all of the marketing, all the communication options that are out there. I go through everything, vet everything, and come up with the way that the client's gonna get the best return on their investment to grow their brand.

Russel 30:54

Yeah. Which we could boil that down to say, do amazing work. And that's not easy. Right. You're saying staying on top of the industry and just staying ahead of trends and Yeah, and being in the know, but that it's hard to fire someone that's doing amazing work.

David 31:08

Yes, absolutely. Like you know, what we've done for Asher's Chocolate right now. I mean, we're continuing to grow their brand. We're continuing to, every year that goes by, their sales of their branded product is further and further ahead of their non-branded product. So you can never be complacent. You have to always be hungry and always try and work hard too. Get them to the next level.

Russel 31:36

Yeah. Yeah. You n never rest on your laurels.

David 31:38

Right.

Russel 31:39

And one success just means you gotta up your game for the next,

David 31:42

every client's like, what have you done for me lately?

Russel 31:45

You're only as good as your, uh, yeah. Your last success. That's a really good reminder. And then you mention this in concept earlier when you were talking about the 2008 recession, that you know that you tended to run a little lean. Has that been a focus since the beginning of your agency? Did something teach you that lesson to be learned or, how pervasive has that approach been?

David 32:07

It's a prudent way to run a profitable business, but the marketplace is very different today. And what I always tell all my team members is we're gonna work hard on the clients that we have. We're gonna work hard on the clients. That's new business, but if we land more new clients. I do respect everyone having a good quality of life, good balance of, work and time for your family. I want everyone to know on my team that I'll bring on more people as the need dictates.

Russel 32:44

Yeah, it's not a layer of exploitation, it's a layer of protection, but, and you have to protect in multiple ways, beyond just the not, I think like you're saying, where you bad things happen that you don't have to make a bad decision, but Right. But protect too that it's not, yeah. How do we get the most outta people every single day? It's just

David 33:04

right.

Russel 33:05

How do we take care of our people?

David 33:06

They have to be happy and they have to look forward to coming to work every day.

Russel 33:09

If we go back to the quality aspect, happy people do good work. This is a Nef nose lesson here. We're taking away and a reminder. Love it.

David 33:19

Russell,

Russel 33:19

you seem to be really loving what you do, and you've been doing this a long time. What has been the key to keeping that passion alive for you?

David 33:29

I think it's working on accounts that you're turned on by that I'm turned on by that my team is turned on by, I know my team well enough, like usually 99% of the time when I'm excited about a new client prospect, they are too. So I think it's important to work on and pursue accounts that excite you.

Russel 33:53

I love that. Do sexy work. But I'm, I'm assuming it's not all sexy, right? Like some is more sexy than others, or should we

David 34:02

say No, actually, you know, we have clients that, on the surface you might think they're not sexy accounts, but when you find out they're saving lives now in hospitals across the country, it gets sexy real fast.

Russel 34:14

Yeah.

David 34:14

When you find out that your client who's in the recycling business has innovated 2, 3, 4 new products that no one else has thought of. Market those to other recycling companies parts. Work with brands that have good stories to tell.

Russel 34:36

I'll amend my statement. Find this X in every client. And

David 34:41

yeah,

Russel 34:41

that might be a better approach. Okay, well what's the next 40 years of NF look like? What's the future hold?

David 34:48

Well, we're gonna see what happens there. Russell, I still love what I do. I probably should have started thinking about success planning before now. Learning about how the legacy can continue, whether it be people here who take an ownership part and it continues beyond me, or whether it's, an outside group that wants to keep me around for a while. And allowing me to ensure that quality and the strategy and the results that are generated for a client continue to happen. We're in the process of systematizing a lot of areas of our business, so I think that'll make everything a little easier.

Russel 35:38

Well, it's been an amazing ride and I'm sure we're not even close to being done and, and some things certainly to figure out in this next phase, but,

David 35:46

no doubt,

Born or Made?

Russel 35:47

fascinating story. So let me, let me just cap it off with one last big question for you, David. Are entrepreneurs born, are they made?

David 35:55

I think they're born.

Russel 35:57

Okay. How so?

David 35:58

I think, you know, you have that entrepreneurial spirit in your, or you don't. Because maybe I'm gonna change to the other option. Me growing up and listening to my father who was a workaholic talk business and he was in the furniture business, and I would go to High Point Furniture Market with him in New York and in High Point, North Carolina. And I would listen to him on the phone all the time and I would his truck in this warehouse. It gives you. A big advantage of seeing a window into the business world. So based on that experience, you could say maybe they are a maid. Maybe it's a combination of both what you're exposed to. So the more you're exposed, if you're exposed to entrepreneurs and you're exposed to people who are growing a brand or a business. It's unbelievably helpful for super young people to then give them a platform and let them say, Hey, I could do this too.

Russel 37:15

Well, I have to imagine changing your thought process. Mid thought just shares to the enlightenment and the flexibility of which you approach your business. So I'd expect nothing less than upon that reflection. So if people wanna know more about nf, where can they go?

David 37:30

They can go to uh neffknows.com. There is a button for more information and we, I'll get back to you.

Russel 37:42

Nice. All right. Straight to the source.

David 37:45

Anyone who, uh, goes on that, it's, I'm the one who's gonna get back to them.

Russel 37:50

Okay. All right. There you go folks.

David 37:52

The window of time is very small.

Russel 37:55

I'm just thinking the hustler, man. I could go hit that button. I feel like in two minutes I might get that call from you. I'm, I wouldn't be surprised.

David 38:02

Yeah, absolutely. So. And they're like, geez, we reached out to six agencies. Only one of them got back to us and this guy got back to us in like five minutes.

Russel 38:10

Yeah.

David 38:11

Maybe that's how, the way he runs his business.

Russel 38:13

Mm. Something to be said there. All right. Well gosh, thank you so much David for taking the time outta your schedule. Russell, you

David 38:20

made this a lot of fun.

Russel 38:21

Oh, well I'm glad. It is. My pleasure. And, and thank you. And sharing things, a reminder of finding the sexy and staying lean, but not too lean. So many. Wonderful takeaways from your long journey. Looking forward to seeing what the future looks like for you and just really appreciate you taking the time to share all that with us today.

David 38:39

It's my pleasure. Lemme know if there's anything else I can do. This has been a great experience and happy to, uh, spend more time. If and when you'd like to.

Russel 38:49

Likewise, likewise. Much appreciated. Thank you for listening to an agency story podcast where every story helps you write your own, subscribe, share, and join us again for more real stories, lessons learned, and breakthroughs ahead. What's next? You'll want to visit an agency story.com/podcast and follow us on Instagram at an agency story for the latest updates.

David 39:14

Remember we talked about Sheldon Yellen. From Belfor. So Sheldon came to my office in Philadelphia and at the time our conference room was in a different part of the office. I see Sheldon get up and he's like heading into the kitchen. I'm like, Sheldon, what are you doing? Is there something I can get you? He said, no. He goes into my kitchen and he changes into. A Rocky Balboa outfit, gray sweatpants, gray sweatshirt, black chalk, Taylors tight little ski hat. So because we're in Philadelphia, he decided he's a very thoughtful guy. He would dress up like Rocky while he was in my office.

Russel 40:01

I bet you that had to be a good laugh.

David 40:04

Yes.

Russel 40:05

And confirm this would be a sexy client to work for.