The Breakdancer Who Built a People-First Agency - Milli

In this episode, Michael Huang shares his story on how focusing on culture, creativity, and mentorship can shape not just a business, but an entire talent pipeline. 

Key Takeaways

• Expecting polished talent instead of developing it—invest early and build your own pipeline 
• Design a workplace people genuinely want to be part of, not just a place to work 
• Evaluate work based on impact, enjoyment, and financial return.
• Young talent is an advantage as they bring raw creativity and real-time insight into culture, so use it 

Transcript

Milli

Russel 0:01

Welcome to an Agency Story Podcast, where owners and experts share the real journey, the early struggles, the breakthrough moments, and everything in between. I'm your host, Russel Dubree, former eight figure agency owner, turned Business Coach, sold my agency and now helps agency leaders create their ideal business. Every agency has a story, and this is your front row seat. This is an agency story. Welcome to the show today, everybody. I have Michael Huang with Milli with us today. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Michael.

Michael 0:39

Thank you, Russel. Looking forward to it.

Russel 0:41

Looking forward to it as well. We're gonna talk about all kinds of cool things, I'm sure, today, but, uh, just to get us kick started, tell us what Milli does, and who do you do it for?

Michael 0:52

Yeah. Um, so we are an independent full service creative agency, uh, based in Seattle, Washington. We have had a lot of different evolutions of X agency over the 10 years that we've been around. We started out as a social media agency when social media was essentially the AI of our time, or of this time of this recording. And, you know, we were kind of a first mover in that respect. We took on the digital marketing agency title a few years later. We then pushed away, like, performance marketing, so, like, paid, SEO, those type of things, and focused solely on creative production and creative strategy. And we said simply,"Well, that's just what advertising is now, right? The creative digital first, social first creative production, the need for content." And so we just went full circle and said,"We're, we're a creative agency, maybe a modern creative agency sometimes. We started in the small business world and we still do work with a lot of small and locally, um, businesses, but we've also gotten some attention, won some awards and started working with bigger brands, Fortune 100s. We're in Seattle, so a lot of tech giants out here, Microsoft, Amazon, that sort of thing. And also, uh, the other side of it is nonprofit s- public sector. We found in the middle of our journey, about five years in, we found that a big part of what we wanna do with an agency is to be purpose-driven and try to do things that feel like they have an impact on, you know, the world and even the city and the community around us.

Being the People's Hero

Russel 2:32

Oh, I always love a conversation where someone's goal is to make the world a little better and anything starting out with good intentions is generally gonna end up in a good place. Something that just kinda came to mind as you were sharing that journey and a good high level overview, as far as kinda how your business evolved. As they like to say in Texas, sounds like you went around the world to get to Waco, but I imagine there was just so much experience in kind of finding yourself that happened in that process. Do you find that tension almost where kind of that passion for small business and just wanting to help? And then I also understand the bigger brands and, and bigger budgets can mean letting some of your creative wings fly a little farther faster. Has that been a challenge to navigate for you or how do you look at that?

Michael 3:18

Yeah, I think, you know, it's all pretty uncharted in many ways. You read up on a lot of agency stories or you learn about them through everything from Mad Men to podcasts like this. And a lot of the stories feel pretty like,"Oh yeah, I worked at Ogilvy and then I took a client and then, you know, we just did that, right?" And it's like, or yeah, someone's like,"I worked in a local business and I worked in the marketing department and started working with them." I think the, the interesting thing about our journey has been, we focused on people in the beginning and in that way, thinking about what do people need right now and what can we deliver to them? And social media was such a, it was less about like,"Oh, there's something interesting about social media inherently." It was more about that like, whoa, social media is like a playing field leveling tool right now that's allowing small businesses, startups, individuals punch up above their weight and make some of the biggest brands in the world sweat just because of their great marketing instincts. And I was working in social media at like, in the first few years of when it was starting to get into a, a, into the commerce level of things, right? Like I was at an agency when Facebook introduced a share button and everyone went wild. I remember presenting about Instagram to my team, like,"This is gonna change things." So that's all to say, like the tension between big or small business hasn't been so much of a, like a, a strategic issue, right? Like we really focus on how do we meet people where they're at, whether they're big brands or small, we focus on the people too, right? Like even if most folks who have worked with a big company, your client is a person, right? It's not like the CEO of Microsoft, right? Not often. So you focus on helping that person, right? And so you build that relationship and sometimes they'll take you to their next job, right? So that's been the way we go about it. And that's made things pretty manageable from a scale perspective. But to answer the second part of your question, which is, what's the tension between it from a business perspective? I think the great thing is, is you already touched on it. It's like finding that balance between"Hey, what's something we care about but might not pay us a lot?" Versus like, okay, this isn't something super aligned with what we wanna put out there from a portfolio perspective or it's not exactly the thing we care about the most, might be some sort of esoteric B2B thing, but it's paying really well and allows us to think a little bit less or feel a little less pressured to get every dollar out of a project that we really do care about or a client that we really wanna help because we care about what they do. And so that balance has been really challenging, but al- also very fun and exciting to play with the scales and adjust as we go, through each year of our, i- and each iteration of our agency. And I think that's been the fun part of the purpose driven side of things.

Russel 6:22

I always wanna refer To an agency business is the most people business that might be existing in the world, but, even driving home that, and this is a little bit of our approach in agency is like, who are we gonna be the hero for and right, it is that person across from you and really taking that into account that, just the way we alikened it a lot of times that, you know, some, sometimes those people's jobs were on the line depending on our success or failure and not taking that responsibility lightly, um- For sure.

Michael 6:51

Yeah. I, I, I wanna add, like, one of the things- Yeah. that really helped us, helps us through that process even since the beginning, I had this approach where, three things, right? Am I having fun? Does it pay me well and does it make an impact? Those are my three criteria for considering a project or a client. And in the beginning, we might've only been able to do one at a time. In the middle of things, we started getting to two out of three, right? Maybe it makes me a lot of money and it's really fun, but it might not have that much meaning, that's okay, right? Now we're in that space where we're hitting three and we're considering, do we expand a four total criteria or five cri- criteria? That's been a really fun part of our philosophy and approach to the things we work on.

Russel 7:35

It just speaks to not All our work will always make the front cover of design mag uh- Right. Or whatever, but that's okay because we can focus on, you know, one of those other aspects that, make the work we do valuable. It's gotta have meaning in some level. And so, uh, I love how you're looking at that. One of the things we didn't really talk about, and I'm just kinda curious to go back to even, like, your roots is, I mean, were you the, you seem like a really creative person. Were you the guy that was, born with a paintbrush in your hand and, or you're, what was young Michael doing before he started his agency?

Michael 8:07

Yeah. I mean, it, it actually tracks really well to where I'm at right now. I was born, I think, reaching for a paintbrush. I wanted to be an artist most of my youth. I, uh, watched a lot of, Japanese animation growing up. I drew a lot. My parents tried to get me into, fine art classes when I was pretty young. I learned how to sketch. But to be honest, I wasn't very talented.

Russel 8:34

I like- I don't know about that. I think you're being hard on yourself.

Michael 8:36

No, no, no. I, I wasn't because I just didn't have it and had teachers say that or, I just liked creating worlds and I like being around the art and I like, writing the story or coming up with ideas or sketching something else that was made. And then I think I realized later on that I am an artist adjacent person and that meant I could still be a part of the process, but more as like a producer, more as a writer, more as a facilitator, more as a coach to creatives, right? And that's what I do now. I mean, obviously I'm skipping a lot of steps there in my life. But, but yeah, like I experienced being an artist, but then I also found out that I had, an aptitude for also supporting artists. I've managed rappers, I've been a break dancer and, like, led a team. I wasn't the best guy on the team, but I was good at coming up with the choreography, right? So I am a creative, I am an artist, but I'm also, I love being that partner, the perfect left, right brain kind of like hybrid, you know?

Russel 9:40

Okay. you just glossed over something that's a little unique and cool. You said break dancer. Now, my real curious question is, how are you feeling about, I know there are some bad stories behind us a little bit, but, uh, break dancing entering the Olympics.

Michael 9:53

Uh, um, yeah, I, it's crazy because I, I know a lot of the people involved. Many of them are close friends of mine and people I've worked with. I had a whole nother life. I spent about 20 years in that world, traveling the world, producing events- Oh, yeah. competing at a high level. So first off, it's like, it's great to see it. It's great to see it up there. It had its time in the 80s and it felt like it just went underground. And so seeing so many people talk about it, being asked about it by almost everybody I know or run into if I mention break dancing, it's a good thing. It's a net positive. Obviously, there's things to pick apart. There's some folks who didn't represent the dance the best way or prefer, in the preferable way. But, you know, at the end of the day, we work in advertising, if you're talking about it, there's gotta be something good going on there and the halo effect of chatter and buzz and cultural engagement is always good for something that needs a little bit more light shine on it because there's a whole community worldwide, kids that it inspires, that take them out of bad situations and gives them something to experience and care about without much, uh, startup cost, right? Yeah. Break dancing is one of those, like, basketball, right? It's a beautiful thing that engages all sorts of your mind, your body, your soul, your individuality, your self-esteem. So the more that can spread, the better at Olympics is a huge stage.

Russel 11:14

All right. Well, I won't ask you to do a break dancing demonstration, but, that was clearly a very important part of your background and your journey. I'm sure you enlightened Even more folks of what that world looks like. So tell us just about the moment of where you got to where you said,"I'm starting an agency." And there, there's one of several flavors where it seems like the path that folks take to get to starting their own agency, but what did yours look like?

Michael 11:38

Yeah. Um, I didn't have that moment. I just, uh, I'm somehow still just writing a 10-year random idea that kind of happened. So the break dancing story actually segues, well, when I was in college, I had spent most of my adolescence focusing on breaking. With immigrant parents though, I was, they were like,"You can do this. You can take over the basement, but you're gonna get a job." And so I had no notion going into college thinking I was gonna somehow find a way to create a degree around break dancing. So I had to figure out what I was gonna do in school. Break dancing got me an internship with Red Bull, and this was at a time when Red Bull had like created or at least standardized this approach of gorilla marketing as they called it back then, right? Yeah. Like not so much ads and billboards, but throwing events and doing scavenger hunts in the middle of the city, stuff like that. Yeah. And I thought it was so cool. And Red Bull was like the break dancing brand, right? Like they owned it, no other brands messed with it. So I, I was like,"This is perfect." So I got the job and then I realized, oh, marketing, marketing, brand management, whatever, um, this was fun. And so I went to business school, studied marketing. And then when I graduated, it was 2010, and that was still in the recession. And, you know, if you were a lawyer or an accountant, you might get a job, but, um, a guy with a marketing degree, eh, it's like the equivalent of a communication degree. Yeah, exactly. Get a lie. Even Red Bull was like, look, we, you could like deliver Red Bull palettes, that's the job we got, we don't have a lot of marketing department funds. And so I, I had to poke around and figure out what I could do. Social media was my way in. I think I got a odd job at a law firm that needed to train their team on LinkedIn and my first job was do a social media marketer and this was at the time where like, it felt fake, honestly. Yeah. It felt like a scam. So the social media though led me to opportunities in the marketing world that eventually had me knocking on the door of a really cool cutting edge advertising agency in town. Okay. Razorfish for those of, those who know about- Oh yeah. uh, the heyday of Razorfation, yeah, Avenue A and all that. They had just been bought by publicists. They were starting a social media wing. I think I was one of like 10 social media marketing agency people, in their whole network. And so it was very, very wild, wild west, but I got in there and then I had that revelation I talked about earlier, which was like, oh, this stuff, I can use this stuff to help friends and their businesses and whatnot. So I launched a couple of campaigns. I went to New York, worked on Madison Avenue at another agency, launched the United Airlines rebrand in 2013. I was like 25 and I was already at like getting to a senior level of social media strategy and stuff like that. And I was like, okay, let me see what I can do on the freelance side. I struck out to see what I could do. I always go back to the agency world, that's what I told myself. And this was a time where freelancing was not, we were called consultants, right? They didn't even say the word freelance. I worked out of the first WeWork, it was in Soho. Like I- The

Russel 15:01

first WeWork?

Michael 15:02

The first one, the one that they have in the show. Uh, I remember getting invited to one of the parties and I didn't go because I was like, I, I need, I need to make money. It's expensive in New York. Yeah. And I just tried my hand at a bunch of things. I consulted for a couple of businesses. I became a biz dev director for a startup and they didn't even really use me like it was like a meeting once a week, but I was on their website. I was just running around trying to figure out what freelance looked like. And then I went back to Seattle from where I was from, you know, see family, have some meetings, and then that's where I started to piece together some clientele, some opportunities to consult with different groups of folks to go in and talk about social media, because there was many, very few of us who have agency experience at the highest level in social. And it led me to getting a few clients and getting a few advisors and folks that felt like an ecosystem. And I was like, okay, I think this is the moment where freelancers start to say no to stuff or they start to hire people. And most people were like,"Don't hire anyone, just keep it freestyle, keep, keep it one man shop." And I went against that advice and I hired a friend and then another friend and then all of a sudden we're in my living room and they're like,"Hey, Mike, do you want to get an office because like, you know, your house is okay." And I was like, all right. Yeah. So that's, I think that was the moment where I realized, oh, okay, I'm starting something, so I need to come up with a name, I need to, you know, get a business license, need to start paying some taxes, that kind of thing. Yeah.

Russel 16:36

Oh, those darn taxes. Uh-

Michael 16:38

Yeah.

Follow the Uncertain Path

Russel 16:38

You know, something, right, because you, you gave the swath of your, your, um, you know, an overview of kind of your agency journey and how you arrived to where you're at today and, and even I know the, the word that's just coming to my mind is like exploratory and seems like it's all working out really well, but I, I guess, I guess the question from my end is just any next step you took, was it intentional or just saying,"Look, I'm gonna just follow, I'm gonna go walk about and I'm gonna follow opportunities and I know I'll get to where I need to be in the end."

Michael 17:08

Yeah, I think this was the st- the time in my life, right, where that everyone has in their 20s, where you're exploratory, you're trying to figure stuff out. I had just moved to New York, I then stuck everything back into a storage closet, I left them there for two years thinking I might go back to New York, right? So a lot of stuff in the air. I think this was when I then realized I had to get intentional, right? Like especially when I had people that depended on me, people that I hired. And I think that's the beautiful thing about starting an agency is that you all of a sudden go from"Oh yeah, I got cool ideas and I wanna make money to, oh, I have like responsibilities, I have people that I wanna make sure I can pay, but I also want my team to be inspired." And so you start to think about things in a much more intentional way or thoughtful way of like,"Hey, like, what is my next decision gonna be? Right? It's just like if someone becomes a parent or, you know, you get a plan, whatever, like you start to just, you start to grow up a bit. And I think like what was really, really important for me was that like one of the big reasons I left the big agency in New York, which was paying me well and giving me a lot of growth opportunity, right, was that like I didn't enjoy the culture. So a big part of me was realizing, okay, now that I'm starting an agency, what does that mean? This is a quote I read somewhere actually."The world doesn't need another agency, but it can always use a great place to work."And so my, my brain shifted around, okay, advertising and, and creative work is a vehicle, it's a tool, right? It's something I know how to do, but what I'm really passionate about is the people and the culture and the opportunity to get paid to be creative and also to work with people you like and to have really great relationships in the work you do because in this capitalistic society, we're being told that the way to live is that you work. That's all you do. You work, you spend more time with your coworkers and your clients and at your job than with your own loved ones than sleep, right? So if we're gonna do that, then can we design our work a little bit in a way that feels intentional and at least a little bit more comfortable than feeling like, oh, I just gotta clock in and clock out, hate everyone there, you know, hate my job or, or, or lie to people that I love my job.

Russel 19:25

Yeah. One of the thing I wanna make sure, right, that, that people caught there that I, I think is important and right, you, you phrased it as I was in my 20s and whether you're starting a business or an agency in your 20s or your 50s, I wanna encourage folks of just embracing that exploration phase and that's okay to have just this kind of messy wayward experience and almost not get too sucked into something and so you can have that exploration and freedom. And I feel like that helps refine where you get to, it sounds like where you got of intentionality, right? I, I've seen the lay of the land, I've experienced different parts of this, and now I know, I, I know myself, I know what I want to create, I know what I want to build, and it seems like you can go much more quicker in that direction if you embrace some of that exploration. When you look at that, does that feel like,"Hey, I, I, it, it took the right amount of time to get there because I, I was intentional when I was time to be intentional and I needed to be.

Michael 20:22

Yeah, people ask that question a lot of like,"What would you tell your younger self?" Yeah. Like I would tell them anything. You, I gotta go through process. Yeah. Like you're asking me like I've done the right things. If I told myself anything, I'd probably ruin that, right? So- Yes. I think that, that ex- that exploration is important. You know, I think it's also like, it's a cliche, right? Like you hear the commencement species where they're like,"Oh, you gotta like, I failed so many times before I succeeded." Or even with the startup world, which is like when we started Millie, right, like this tech startup world of just like coming up fail fast and execute and pivot and do all that stuff. And I think like we, we try to reinvent it all the time, but it's a very human thing, right? It's just like there are best practices, but those are just starting points, right? Yeah. Like there's a lot that has not been done or discovered or a lot that has been done but hasn't been done, paired with that, right? There's a lot of ways to put things together and it's really, really exciting to come up and explore those ways and also adapt because the world we live in is changing so fast, faster than You know what I mean? How long did it take between man going from horse to real, right? It, it thousands and thousands of years, millions even. And for us right now, like it feels every day something is changing our world dramatically, or at least that's the way it feels. And so I think like to that effect, not being afraid of that, but leaning into like, okay, like I wanna try different things and I wanna explore. And that's what we've been doing with the agency, right? And we continue To have those conversations in an intentional way sticking to our core values, but being open to adapting and shifting.

Russel 22:03

Yeah. Well, it's, it's funny, I talk about that a lot of just this, you know, the last 20 or more years, I mean, the world has changed more than it ever has in the last hundreds of thousands of years. And what, what caught my attention when you said, because I used to say this about the mid 2000s or early 2000s when, in the web space, that was the wild, wild west in the marketing world from, uh, just websites and digital tech- technology going online. Not a few years later, there's a whole new wild, wild west you're describing in social media. Now, not even 10 years later, we're in this wild wild west of AI. Yeah. And probably within 10 more years, there's gonna be another wild, wild west. And right again, all the previous years in marketing, everything, there were, the wild, wild west before that, I don't know, was the printing press maybe. Right, exactly. And, and it, and it's kinda nutty in that sense, but I love the way you put that. Well, you've hinted on it a little bit already about this thing of, of being a pe- people business and how important that is. One of the things that really stuck out to me from our previous conversation is, and I think this gets lost for a lot of folks is this, I can't remember how you talked about it, but just the importance of mentoring and, and developing young talent. It, it's, the word that comes to my mind is like apprentice level. Yeah. That's the kind of world we live in. And, and just share a little bit about your thought process behind that, and I'd love to get to some nuggets that I think could be helpful to, to-

Michael 23:22

Yeah.

Embracing Young Talent

Russel 23:22

for folks out there to, that want or need to be in a similar mindset.

Michael 23:26

So I think to segue from where I, I left off there, you know, starting the agency and then realizing, oh, the, the idea here isn't like, oh, we have something unique or different to offer the advertising world or creative world, but actually that this whole thing is just a way to create a, a space for folks, right?

Russel 23:45

Yeah.

Michael 23:45

And realizing that, you know, a big part of what got me to this point of creating Millie and creating this space was also a reaction into feeling like there weren't enough spaces that I felt were welcoming to someone like me or that felt conducive to my growth or the culture didn't feel like it was giving me the right tools or opportunities to grow in the way I wanted to. And, you know, agencylife or whatever, right? Everyone normalized it. And for me, the biggest thing was too that I grew up South Seattle, public schools, I grew up with a very different background than I think a lot of the people that I knew in the agency world, especially like in New York where they all like had someone in their family that were going to add. They, they got to intern at Gray and RGA for, you know, five years before they got in. And I grew up in, in neighborhoods where, you know, most of the kids, their parents were custodians and garbage truck drivers, right? And, things of that nature. Very blue collar, but also very immigrant, very, very diverse. And I became inspired by that collection and culture, that collection of people through break dancing, through music, through hip hop, through diverse foods, through people's like interesting styles of clothing and like all the kind of quirks and weirdness that we had at our schools that had Ethiopian, Somali and, Vietnamese, Filipino, all the, just like all these different peoples. And that vibrancy is why I was able to get to this place and be creative in the spaces and do social media because what social media was about was connecting communities and connecting cultural trends together, right? And I was good at that because I had this experience. But I look back and a lot of my friends, they didn't see the opportunity in cultivating those things about them. They felt like, in fact, most of the jobs or places of work made them hide those things. They had to normalize and conform. And so what inspired me about advertising and the creative industry was that, whoa, like there's this whole industry where you can, you are literally there, at least they're saying that your uniqueness and your weird, quirky ideas are valuable and that you can create a career and you can win awards and you can't get paid really well doing them. So I was like, I gotta connect this dot, I gotta connect these dots. But also a big part of that beyond the hot button term of DEI was you can't do that unless there's people that are coming in or at least looking at this industry and saying,"Oh, that's viable. That's an opportun- that's a, a place for me. So a big part of what I'm trying to do with Millie, as, a kid that does not quite look like everybody else that runs ad agencies is to show and signal to other kids or anyone any age, right, that maybe wanna do a career switch, whatever. Like, but especially the youth, young people that are right now being still told that like they need to go and, you know, at least in Seattle, they gotta go work, they gotta become a computer software engineer, or they gotta become an athlete, right? A lot of them, those are their choices. Like- Yeah. well, well, if you're shooting a music video for your buddy, you could also be a filmmaker. You could be a commercial filmmaker. Like no one's telling them that, right? So I wanna be that. I wanna create a space like Millie that says"Hey, people that look like you, people that come from backgrounds like you can also have this career being a creative, being a designer, being a copywriter, coming up with ideas, shooting videos and photos that are incredible that get on billboards, right?" And I think that is kind of the bigger picture of what, what it means to create an amazing place to work that people like to work at, that feel like they can thrive is also creating a beacon to folks that never thought of that as a possibility, that never thought of like advertising or creative industry as a space.

Russel 27:51

That's inspiring. I will just say, and I am a big fan of diversity and I think this space, we, we need minds that don't quite tick like what a quote unquote normal mind it does and how important that is and that, that's not- Yeah. that's so many different facets that make up someone's uniqueness. And so embracing that and, and being that space, that, that's really inspiring. I'm kind of feel like I've seen where you're, where you're going and of why mentorship and that guidance is so important. It is if you're bringing kids that just weren't immersed in that and maybe didn't come to this in a natural normal path, you've gotta bring that training with them or with you or for them because they didn't get it because of their parents and this, and the space and you're that place where they can get this experience or is that, naturally how you're looking at it or, or tell me otherwise?

Michael 28:36

Yeah. I mean, if you can't see, you can't be, right? And that's, that's the tough thing, right? It's like- I like that. That's, that's what diversity is really. I mean, like, I think the DEI conversation is tough because a lot of it's very surface level. It talks about, like, hiring people that are unqualified, right? That's a narrative. But, like, my whole thing is, it's not even about that. Diversity is about creating pipeline. It's about creating, accessibility across industries and culture, right? Because i- if we're talking about merit, then, and we're not being racist about it, then everyone has an opportunity to be good at something. But if you don't, like, if people get head starts or they don't think they can do it, then they, they're at a disadvantage already. So to me, it's like, you can't hire people diversely if they don't exist, right?

Russel 29:19

Mm-hmm.

Michael 29:20

So you gotta find the, you gotta find people at, at early stages and create pathways? Just like pathways have been created over hundreds of years for other folks that have legacies or their parents did it and their grandparents did it, we gotta create that. And I went from the black chief in my family greet dancing to being one of the most successful in my generation of my cousins and all that, right? And I think that that's a beautiful thing and I think like the, the exciting thing about that is that, like, I wanna be able to tell that story and signal ri- widely to young people and then back that up with action in terms of building programs to get them in. So we work with, the City of Seattle on a creative workforce development program that, helps find young people that are interested in these industries and we place them and the city pays for them to go and be interns, even at small radio, stations, right, so they can learn sound engineering or maybe places that don't have the resources to pay for interns, we're actively trying to create those pathways and carve them open. Do you know what I mean?

Russel 30:22

Yeah. That's such a good, and we can write one, one thing I hear about a lot, and I get it, it, it is, right, is, is the cost of talent And we want, it's this dichotomy,"Well, I can't afford good talent, but I want young talent to be good." Well, uh, when we all love our cake and eat it too, that you, you've gotta invest somewhere. You've either gotta invest the money to hire more experienced talent, or you've gotta invest, in sounds like some of the things that you're doing to grow young talent. Mm-hmm. And, and as you said, build a pipeline. Just to bring it, I think give some folks some practical tips, like, what are one or two things that someone needs to be mindful when working with one young talent, like, so they can be like,"Oh, maybe I don't always understand how to train or how to meet young talent where it's at." But yeah, give us some pro tips on, on growing up the young ones.

Michael 31:06

Yeah. I mean, number one, right, is, like, if we're talking about creative industry, if we're talking about advertising, I mean, like, don't forget that young people have one of the most critical natural gifts that we always are trying to cultivate in our industry, which is creativity, right? Creativity is not learned or gained. It's inherent and it's all about tools, and frankly, in our world, jargon to help people translate it into campaigns or business needs, right? Don't forget that kids, no matter how young they are, they've got a natural aptitude, most of them have a natural aptitude for being creative, right? And so your job isn't to, be like, oh, your work is good or bad, right? Your job is to cultivate their ability to translate that into the language of the work we have to do, right? The industry, jargon, right? Like, that's all that is, right? A lot of the stuff we still do is either natural to us or it comes from, a gut feeling or a personal experience, but we're just really good. The greatest, the best advertisers, the best creatives are just really good at translating that through tools and language that are, widely accepted and understood. So f- young people, just remembering, like, working with them and trying to just, like, be an amplifier of them is the main thing that I try to do. Also, shit, this is really true. You can learn a lot from them. I mean, I would be remiss if I didn't call out and give flowers to all, like, the young kids that come and intern for us and then teach us something about what's going on out there, what people are doing, right, from their personal experiences. Like, if we're really working at the bleeding edge of culture and technology and all that, everything we say on our websites as creatives or advertisers, um, we need to know a little bit something about something, right? You can only get so much reading about Gen Z or listening to someone that's your age talk about them, you gotta talk to them and meet them where that. So really, in a lot of ways, it's a research opportunity at the same time. So seeing the truth and the fact that you can learn from them too is important because the idea of mentorship or, or mentee or coaching, it goes both ways. Finally, I would just say, like, try, if you can, to find the kids, really go and find them, right? Like, I'm talking about, one of the things that I realized was, really important for me to do was go back to the schools I went to, right? And ask the teachers there, like,"Hey, is there Can I come for a career day? Can I talk to anybody?" It's not their job to find you, right? Like, we have a, a lot of times we have this romantic idea of, the young prodigy that need, like, is smarter than everyone that knows that they wanna become a filmmaker. Those kids will come to you. Find the people, find the kids in the toughest places of your cities. Don't be afraid. Go out there. They could use you. Seeing you is gonna be really important. Seeing that you wanna talk to them is really important. There's so much power in what we do, even if we're running just a local marketing agency and it's not that, fancy or whatever, like, people wanna hear from you. You inspire people inherently. Like, that's exciting to them, especially kids. Like, I wish I got more, I had more mentors and people I got exposed to. That act alone is super powerful.

Russel 34:26

Yeah. Well, I'm just gonna sum, sum that up just, and this is kinda what I heard and I think those are really great takeaways is, one, just embrace their creativity and ambition and, not just because there's so much just power and potential there, right? Power of youth and, and that's really inspiring. And then flip the script of, rather than be frustrated about what they don't know and what they can't do, what can you learn and really even focus on, on their strengths within that, but what can you learn? Do that, let, leverage them for their research and their understanding of observing how the world works. They come up in it. We're still trying to, maybe as older, we're trying to make it make sense in how it used to be. This is the world they live and there's a lot of power in that. And then search and find the, the diamonds in the rough, go dig up with these folks, go to them and there's a lot of value in that. So I love that. That's very helpful. Well, this has been a wonderful conversation and so many more paths I'd love to go down in your journey. We might need episodes two, three, four here, but, uh, with that being said, just give a quick sense of what does the future of your agency look like, the five-year plan, as they might say.

Michael 35:33

If you've listened up to this point in my story, if I tried to make some sort of, bold and concrete prediction, I would probably sound like I'm lying. I think the exciting thing is that, you know, everyone else is bull- you know, we're in the Wild Wild West, the perpetual Wildwild West. Everyone's investing in something, an agency's going all AI or blah, blah, blah. They're bullish on this, they're bullish on that. I'm bullish on the same thing that we've been bullish on since the beginning. It's the people. And we've been putting together an amazing team. We've been hiring while a lot of agencies are letting folks go. I'm excited about our talent. I'm excited about the client relationships we have, and I'm gonna continue to invest in the people around us so that we can then in turn invest in more people like young folks and bring more of them into maybe multiple internship positions and kickoff programs for other agencies and our overall creative industry. People. Yeah. So five years, I think just gonna be more people, more opportunities to work with more people and get more people in the door in the creative world. Yeah.

Born or Made?

Russel 36:33

Great stuff. Can't wait to see what that looks like and, and shaping your journey. So one last big question for you, Michael. Are entrepreneurs born or are they made?

Michael 36:43

They're made. They, well-

Russel 36:45

With

Michael 36:46

authority. You know what? I, I I'm gonna say this again, as a child of immigrants and a very, very, uh, strong bias towards enterprising and being a self-starter. There's nature and nurture, and some people have more nurture in that way. So I would say, like, the idea of being an entrepreneur at a natural level probably doesn't exist, but if you can find great mentors and you can go out there and be around that energy, I mean, that's essentially the same thing.

Russel 37:12

Beautiful. Love that. Well, if people wanna know more about Millie, where can they go?

Michael 37:17

Millie.agencyno.com. All right. For the folks that don't know about

Russel 37:23

that. Yeah. I'm probably more people aren't using the dot agency. I don't run across that too often, but, maybe it'll catch on. And we don't, right? It's another way, you don't always have to find the dotcom now. We just have this perfect dot agency.

Michael 37:35

I will disclaim that it does confuse some people and some government websites where you need to pay taxes. Doesn't accept the dot agency. So have the dotcom and the background as well as an option.

Russel 37:47

Leave it to the government to be behind on, what's going on in the tech world. Well, wonderful story, Michael. Very inspiring. Love the work you're doing. Shows that you don't have to wait till this place of being big, larger, et cetera, to have an impact, to carry out a mission, to stand for something. You can do that from day one, and that's so inspiring to hear, and really just appreciate you taking the time to share that with us today.

Michael 38:11

Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate it. And keep telling these stories, they're important.

Russel 38:15

Will do. That for sure. Thank you for listening to an Agency Story Podcast, where every story helps you write your own. Subscribe, share, and join us again for more real stories, lessons learned, and breakthroughs ahead. What's next? You'll wanna visit an agencystory.com/podcast, and follow us on Instagram at an agency story for the latest updates.

Michael 38:41

I'm a lot younger looking than I am, uh, and I think that's part of, uh, what we say, we like to say Asian don't raisin. And there's been, in the, especially the first couple years, coming into meetings, being mistaken as, like, the intern of the company or being thought of as a younger person, right? And, like, I used to think maybe I should get upset about that. But I decided very quickly, and I think strategically, to make that a funny thing. So I think, for those who out there who are doing things a little unconventionally or maybe don't fit the bill, make sure you enjoy those moments where you Uh, because that's what you're doing, right? You're going against the grain, and that's, like, your literal evidence for it, is when people go like,"Oh, wait, are you not, are you, like, not the junior associate?" Like, no, it's okay.

Russel 39:29

I, I love that. Right, it just shows that to not take ourselves too seriously or, or just run with it. And I've never heard the saying Asian, Asian don't raisin. So I, I learned something today too.