Finding Value Close to Home - Fencepost

Finding value doesn’t always require looking farther away. In this episode, Ross McDaniel, Founder of Fencepost, shares how his search for bigger opportunities ultimately led him back to the people, businesses, and community closest to home. His journey offers a refreshing perspective on growth, purpose, and building something meaningful right where you are. 

Inside this episode:

•  Why some of the greatest opportunities are right underneath your nose 
•  Discover a new way of battling imposter syndrome
•  The role of coaches, mentors, and systems in creating sustainable business growth 
•  Lessons learned from a working a two vastly different agencies 
•  How applying your own methods to real businesses builds confidence and credibility

Transcript

Podcast Intro

Russel 0:01

Welcome to An Agency Story podcast, where owners and experts share the real journey, the early struggles, the breakthrough moments, and everything in between. I'm your host, Russell Dubree, former eight-figure agency owner turned business coach, who sold my agency and now helps agency leaders create their ideal business. Every agency has a story, and this is your front row seat. This is An Agency Story.

Meet Ross McDaniel

Russel 0:31

Welcome to the show today everyone. I have Ross McDaniel with us here today with Fence Post. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Ross. Yeah, Russel, thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Well, I'm excited to have you. I know there's a lot of fun conversation in store for us today. Uh, so to kick us off, if you don't mind, share us, with us what Fence Post does and who you do it for.

Ross 0:52

Yeah. Fence Post is a m- digital marketing agency for home service businesses. I think that's the simplest way to put it. I don't love that because it feels like a drop of water in a, a massive pond, right? Our whole angle and bent is helping local communities grow and flourish by helping the, the home service businesses that serve those communities grow and flourish. And, we've got a pretty simple but cool local growth formula: visibility, competency, social proof, and referral, and we've taken that to the bank and tried to filter everything we do through that. So trying to see business in all 50 states grow and flourish so they can love on local communities.

Russel 1:33

Well, there is nothing boring about that at all, and, you know, just already can even get a glimpse in how you show up and do that. Can't wait to learn more about that. And yes, there are certainly no shortage of agencies that focus on the home services space, but there is also a bajillion people in the home services space. So I think that, it makes sense and I'm not at all- It's a good reminder

Ross 1:54

for me.

Russel 1:55

Well, yeah. We're gonna learn more about

Augusta Roots

Russel 1:57

your journey. And speaking of learning more about your journey, um, wanna hear about young Ross and what, what was he doing long before he got into the middle of the agency space?

Ross 2:09

Yeah, I mean, wow, what a... I'm 36, which is not a, not an ancient life, but- feels like it's increasingly less of a young life now. You know, I, I grew up here in Augusta, Georgia, which is where our agency is, is based out of. And, here in Augusta, myself included, thought we were gonna be leaving and getting out at every major checkpoint of a young life, right? You graduate high school and, okay, I'm gonna go off to the big university. How

Russel 2:33

big is Augusta, by the way? I don't really know. I have a sense of- I

Ross 2:36

mean, I think if you like combine a bunch of metro areas together, it's like 750,000 people. Okay. But really we're 300,000 strong is like the report. That's a pretty good size actually. Yeah. Yeah. But here y- it's a, a big little town, if that makes sense. Yeah. Everybody knows each other. And so, yeah, I mean, thought I'd go off to UGA or University of Kentucky or, even Georgia College and State, which is a couple hours away. But, ended up here for that, here at Augusta State, and bitter, resentful. Not, "What am I doing here?" Ended up just squandering away the first few years. By God's grace, met my wife, met, met the Lord, and ended up really embracing what was an awesome, macro university experience here at Augusta State. And i- in that time, met a, a fantastic professor, Dr. Loda, uh, who's a professor of marketing and just exposed me, o- opened my, my eyes to the world of having a hand in, in marketing, and specifically growth marketing. And so, uh, after that thinking, "Well, I have found a passion. I've found a wife. I need to go move to a big city so I can provide for her, work in a big agency." And, um, yeah, that didn't happen either. I ended up hitching

First Agency Break

Ross 3:50

my wagon. I think I worked as an intern for, uh, six months for free at this really small digital agency, called New Farm Media. Was this after graduation? This was, like, last semester of graduation- Okay. Okay of college and into- Okay into the, you know, right after. And- And, and were you married

Russel 4:07

yet, or were you kind of on the cusp here of starting a family? Or how, where does this fit into the picture? I, I wanted to be

Ross 4:11

married. I wasn't yet. Okay.

Russel 4:13

Yeah. Gotcha. Okay. We were, we were

Ross 4:14

working on it, for sure. And, um, yeah, I mean, it, that was the beginning of my marketing career. Obviously never left Augusta. Uh, there's a whole other story in that. But really fell in love with not only, uh, my town, uh, through that, but also fell in love with this world of, of marketing. And, you know, at the time, digital marketing itself was a, was a niche, you know, back in like the, the early 2010s. And, and today obviously if you're a marketer, you're a digital marketer. And that certainly evolved in a way that, you know, you need to niche down more. But really got a chance to hone my hard skills on the Google Ads, um, front and then on the Meta Ads front, and that's been my first love was Google and Meta and the paid ad side. And slowly just got more exposure to bigger and badder businesses. And, fast-forward another six or seven years realizing, man, I love helping the local guys. So that's a little bit- Okay of the, the backstory there.

Entrepreneur Mindset Shift

Russel 5:13

So you, you started out as a unpaid intern. As you were progressing through there, were you really thinking long term about where you wanted to eventually end up, or were you just more going for the flow, learning, growing b- day by day?

Ross 5:27

Yeah, I mean, uh, a little bit of both. I think, I, I remember looking at my stepdad and saying, "I never want to own my own business." He was a serial entrepreneur, and thinking like, "This is a nightmare watching you do what you're doing." What was his--

Russel 5:42

What business was he in?

Ross 5:43

Uh, he had a few different ones. He owned like a production company down in Miami. He owned a, a food truck. He was one of the early adopters of food trucks here in Augusta, and I actually helped him out a lot with that in his cafe. And, yeah, I mean, just brutal looking at also food service, quick service restaurants, not a great, ambassador for becoming a small business owner- If you're, you're on the edge. But it was, he, he showed me a lot of different things that, I still have today. But I remember saying that, right? Like, "Hey, I never want to be a, an entrepreneur." Simultaneously, I- I'm reading Confessions of an Advertising Man, sitting back up there on my shelf by David Ogilvy,

Russel 6:23

That's a really great book. So it's interesting how, how much and how little, I guess you could say, in some ways the, the agency space has evolved.

Ross 6:31

And, and you know, that's probably, like, those timeless principles that you're talking about, I think those are actually what I was falling in love with, was just the concept- Mm um, of, consumer behavior, right? And, and understanding that. And not, they probably were not as noble as they might be today. They were probably just like, "I wanna make a lot of money and figure out how to provide, but also make a name for myself in this career." And, and they've certainly, like, refined and polished, uh, over time. But that's what it was then. Yeah. And I'm

Russel 7:00

sorry, I just remembered I'm referencing the wrong book. I'm sitting here thinking of the title. it's The Man Who Sold America, which is- Oh, well, I need to read that. Yeah. I haven't read that. Yeah. I'll, I'll send that to you, and for the folks listening, we'll throw that in the show notes, as well as the book that you're referencing. I have not read the book you're referencing, but for some reason that clicked in my head, and I jumped way too fast to, connecting those dots that weren't actually connected in my brain.

Ross 7:22

It's interesting though because they do connect. Like, in that book, I mean, it's, it's very similar. Yeah. And I mean, those guys are just, like, pioneers in cutting, paving the way for us, I suppose. Okay. And what was the name of the book that you're talking about again? It's a book by David Ogilvy, "Confessions of an Advertising Man."

Russel 7:40

You go. Now, now folks at home have two books to read, and I have one to read, and you have one to read, so we're all- That's right we're all getting better here.

Ross 7:45

That's right. That's right.

Russel 7:47

Um,

Ross 7:47

so I got you off track there somewhere. I think you were just asking, like, "Hey, did you always wanna do this?" And- Yeah I think the answer is, is mostly no, and yeah, I mean, it was a weird way of finding your passion through just misaligned ambition is probably what I would chalk it up to.

Russel 8:04

Yeah. So, so how did that lead up? What was the day, the moment, the, or, or long set of moments that, you know what, I'm gonna go start my own thing or do this on my own? What did that look like?

Founding Fence Post

Ross 8:14

Spent about seven years in that agency. One of my very best friends who's also now my business partner in our coffee shop that we have here in Augusta, he and I were like the head and tails of, of the same coin when it comes to-- He did all the, creative work, and I did all the, the paid ads and account management work. And we were both maturing out of the-- We were too big for the shoes that the agency could fill, and our boss and mentor at the time just decided to sell. That was really cool to be a part of that. Got to peek behind the curtain, and really have a hand in things I had no business having a hand in, but a lot of great exposure. And at that point, spent nine months in a big global company in-house. I went from being a, a large fish in the tiniest of ponds to being like the smallest fish- in the, the largest of ponds. And, that was not for me at all. Tried to do a, a great job, but quickly began looking for something else. Where things started to really shape up is that that whole time I'd been freelancing. Um, part of the deal with working in a small agency is, your-- Our boss, our mentor couldn't afford to pay us market rate, and so he encouraged us to freelance and created opportunities for us to freelance. And that book had, had grown and grown and grown, but I just wasn't quite ready to go out on my own. Ended up hitching my wagon to another small agency out of Greenville. I remember I interviewed for it thinking like, "Oh, wow, this is what big-time agencies are like," in, uh, Greenville, South Carolina. And I, I get there, and it's, like, my friend and, like, his contractor neighbor that, that he met that also does design work. So it ended up jumping from one small agency to another, and that was honestly the beginning of what Fence Post is today, where I, I just learned strategy under Chris at Jolly Sherpa. So if I learned how to manage accounts and hone my skills with paid ads at our first agency, this is where strategy came to life at this second one. And, unfortunately, my-- the, the owner of that agency, one of my, my dear, dear friends, he ended up passing th-this last year. But, that set the tone for Fence Post to be what it is today. And, so all that to say it was a, a not too meandering, but certainly not a not linear, journey to- Yeah owning Fence Post.

Russel 10:28

Now, how long did you spend in that freelance mode before you've, I guess, I, I don't know, I don't want to say it's getting more serious, but just like, I'm no longer Ross the freelancer, I'm now Ross the agency, and there's more people involved in this thing."

Ross 10:42

I probably took on my first freelance client in twenty thirteen. It wasn't till I, like, LLC'd-- It wasn't till twenty twenty when I LLC'd Fence Post. I think there's a lot of identity issues, too, when it comes to starting a business of any kind, but- Right. I, I never felt worthy of calling myself an agency, but, you end up With too many clients to do by yourself, and you hire a contractor and then four, and then you're like, "Well, I guess we're an agency." So- Yeah gotta get some insurance.

Russel 11:13

The accidental agency owner is really a true concept. It takes for- different forms to, to actually become what it is. But, in the end, it seems like so many people didn't, didn't really set out to s- start what they eventually had. It's a great way to phrase it, i'm so just immersed and always have been in the agency space. I wanna know if that's something as common or pervasive in other industries out there. I, I need to... I feel like I need to know this now. This is a yearning I'm gonna have to solve- A yearning one way or another. Yes. Uh, or is this unique to the agency space?

Ross 11:44

I don't know. There-- I have a thought

Side Hustle Debate

Ross 11:46

on that too. I, I think, like, unless you're going to work for a big corporation, any great entrepreneurial endeavor needs to start off as a side hustle. Like, it has to start off as a, I'm an enthusiast, I'm a hobbyist. I can-- If I can make a buck on it one time, can I do it two times? And then can I do it on the side until it can fully replace the current income? And then all of a sudden you're there. Like, I, I just think Entrepreneurial endeavors have to start small, otherwise you're like just maximizing risk unnecessarily, right?

Russel 12:19

Well, I think it comes down to probably different levels of risk tolerance. I mean, I've, I've certainly heard stories. I'd probably say yes and no, even my own journey, like pretty much just went from nothing to, well, you have an agency and selling stuff by Monday by, from an idea on Friday. But I would say still, I probably didn't have a lot to lose either, that actually I was coming out Of the military, didn't have, uh, employment at that time, so it was, it was-- didn't have anything else going on, which I think it's all about what do you have set up in your life? What's your risk tolerance but, um- Good point um, but yeah, the, the, the freelance thing, which is funny too, 'cause there's a book out there called Never Start a Side Hustle. Uh um- I've not read that. Yeah. It comes down to the idea, and it's probably not from when you are working full-time, and I think you're exact-exactly right. Like this is something you're interested in doing, right? But put the toe in the water, put the foot, put the leg, put the, you know, your whole body in eventually is probably a smart way to go about it. I think this is more saying when you have an existing business, try to avoid starting side hustles- Oh, yes um, and you're, kind of- Super agree with that knuckle down and focus versus, um, yeah, chasing shiny red objects kind of thing. A lot of shiny objects out there. There are. There are. There are. Okay, so, One, by the way, I just wanna put a pin in. I wanna come back 'cause I wanna spend more time on just that experience and how that helps you or doesn't help you and where you're at today as far as starting as an intern, seeing a company grow and sell and that whole piece. That, that's gotta be a unique experience unto itself.

Systems And Coaching

Russel 13:50

But, you know, just in the last, what, I guess that's five, six years of your business, what do you think has been most helpful into getting to where you're at today? Call it your secret sauce or success. Well,

Ross 14:03

I've alluded to this before. I, I battled imposter syndrome at every step of the way. Yeah. I think, um, from, from day one of freelancing to today, like, man, can-- I cannot imagine someone who'd pay me $200 a month to manage their- you know, $10,000 a month budget Google Ads account, right? Like, wow, um, so lucky. But the, the point in saying that is, I think the biggest level up for me over the last five or six years is, A, been joining, um, a mastermind community, uh, that, that really helped me overcome that. I think that's a, a huge win. And, through that mastermind community I joined a, a couple of years ago, I actually met my current business coach, Brian Alexander, who has helped me integrate Pinnacle and, Pinnacle business, business systems, kinda like an EOS offshoot. And, I think that's been the biggest level up to me because I was stagnant. I mean, I, I was treading water somewhere around 25 or 30 MRR. And s- over the last three or four years managed to, like, double pretty consistently year after year. And doesn't have to be Brian, but somebody-- Everybody needs a Brian, right? Yeah. Everybody needs, uh, somebody like that in their lives that really holds their feet to the fire, reminds them of truth, and then helps put in systems, especially as a solo founder, put in systems that are gonna help you do all the things just mentioned, stay accountable, know what to measure, and really have your eye on a future goal. And for me, I struggle so much being a visionary. I love to be-- I don't wanna be a tactician necessarily, an operator either. I wanna stay right there in the middle, and, um, he helps pull me out, when I need to.

Russel 15:42

Oh, yeah. We all need a Brian, we all need a coach. There's a recent recording I did, and it kind of talked about the same thing that, you know, th-this idea that a, a coach isn't necessarily have to be revolutionary. It's not magic. That it's, it's that extra level of accountability. It's that outside perspective. It's, um, a little polish to some of the crazy ideas we come up with to make them a little more successful. And, yeah, I couldn't agree more. I've, I've certainly had a coach 90% of my business journey. Um- True still to this day have a coach, and, couldn't agree more. And I'm-- Every day I do it, every day I receive it, I'm all more bought in, that maybe I even need 10 coaches, I've even gotten to the point where it's what do I not know today, and what is-- who's the specific person that knows that thing that I need help with?

Ross 16:27

I think that's a huge testament for you, too, because, I mean, you, you are a coach, right? Now, that's- everybody needs a coach, including the coaches, and I just think that's a, a huge testament to not only your, your business model, but also your humility. Um- Yeah.

Russel 16:39

Yes. Well, I say, I say nobody needs Russel more than Russel. That's right. And, but, you cannot also do brain surgery on yourself, which is words that really hit home for me recently. Oh, wow. And I, and I feel that in a, in a really compelling way as well. Big time. Yeah. I, I love what you talked about, um, you know, this... And it sounds like you got here so reluctantly, like you, you talked about earlier. You're just constantly trying to leave and get out of your hometown, and then here you are and completely singing a different tune about how much you care about community and, and that

Community Calling

Russel 17:11

focus. When, when did that light shine for you, and, uh, how did that kind of manifest itself in your journey?

Ross 17:18

Yeah, I think for us, there were a few things that happened. Uh, one, doors kept getting shut, and it's like the frustration of why are the doors getting shut, you know? And we keep finding ourselves here. But I also think that like a maturity and understand-- overcoming some of that imposter syndrome and realizing that, hey, you don't have to go do and achieve a lot of these things in order to like, make a name for yourself or, or whatever. In fact, you don't even have to make a name for yourself, that your performance is not your value. My wife and I and our family, we're, we're Christians. We're very involved in our, our local church, and we actually ended up merging with a, uh, a church down in, um, just a lower income, community area. We bought a home there and, seeing what life could be like, with human flourishing happening at the community level and seeing the real impact that a little bit of resources, not only financially, but just human resource, being a good neighbor could have infrastructurally, truly. All of a sudden, you have a couple of good neighbors and the city's like, "Hey, we'll put new sidewalks in." Right? Uh, just seeing that happen and seeing the impact that, your mailman, uh, the local roofer, the electrician, we just truly felt and saw some of these things, taking place because we needed all those people. We needed the city. We needed to meet our new neighbors. And obviously, we wanted to do ministry in this area. And so I think when those affections began to align and it was really just a, a comprehensive, not just geographically we live here now, missionally, we're doing this now, professionally

Value Within Mindset

Ross 18:51

we're doing this. But no, all those kind of started blending together, and that was the turning point for me. And I mentioned my late friend Chris, before, he, he founded that agency, Jolly Sherpa, and, he had really... It was in Greenville, so I would go up there, a couple times a month and, spend a lot of time there. We'd actually consider moving there. And he really pushed me and challenged me to, to say no, because that was wrought out of like a, just a, a false view of self and identity, needing to go pursue elsewhere and other things in order to, to create value for myself. And, and that just wasn't true.

Russel 19:25

Yeah. It's, it's so funny, you know, and I think Russel's just on this constant search for fundamentals and what-- get back to the essence of a thing. But just this idea of you talk about imposter syndrome and you talk about trying to break outside of your community, but the note I'm just writing down to myself is value is within. Value is far closer to you than it is further from you. And if we can find it, if we can, if we can look closer to home for that, that, uh, it mi- sounds like in, as in the case in your own journey, that there's no shortage of things that you can uncover.

Ross 19:57

I would agree with that. Yeah.

Contentment

Ross 19:59

I mean, I, I think the layman's term for that might be contentment too. I don't know. I think contentment gets a bad rap,

Russel 20:06

I think it's great. I mean, I, I think, you talk about community, I don't, I don't-- I did not realize this young enough in my business journey. Now I, I do a lot more efforts in local community activism and, just participation even, to some degree, and it's been immensely rewarding and, I think I always was like, would I do it? Well, what's it gonna serve me as for the business? And while it's certainly been helpful for business, that hasn't been the goal. It's just to get to, get... I like your wording. It's just find contentment, not look so in the distance for it. Oh, yeah.

Ross 20:35

That's a great line too. Yeah. Don't look in the distance for it.

Russel 20:39

Well, fascinating. I love that journey for you, and it, it's gets to the heart. I'm just so passionate too just about small business and, and, look, probably if you get Russel a drink or two, he'll go off on a rant about big business. Um, but, uh, um-

Ross 20:53

I would do that at some point. That would make sense.

Russel 20:54

What's the, what's the YouTube that got so popular? Drunk History. We could do drunk, drunk AD. Oh,

Ross 20:58

I remember. Yes. But he's actually good, which is why, like, he, he can just rattle it off even in his, uh Four to six drink state. It's wild

Russel 21:09

Yeah, I might... I don't know, I don't know if I'd be better or worse in that state or not, but, uh, might be a worthy experiment someday.

Coffee Shop Side Quest

Russel 21:15

Well, I do wanna come back to this idea. Actually, you know what? First, before we even go there, somewhere in there you dropped that you got a coffee shop. Where, uh, where did this come about? When did you decide you wanted to become a, a coffee guru?

Ross 21:27

Oh, man. Yeah. Well, first off, not doing that alone. Uh, I've got three wonderful partners, two of them are active, um, majority partners with me. And the three of us run this. We have been blessed to be able to partner with the, with our wives and our families to, to launch Trellis Coffee Bar in, back in 2023, and really that was just an expression of, the same values that I espouse. My other two partners had that as well. And coincidentally, it was self-serving because it allowed me to really practice the local growth formula that we have at Fence Post on something in real life right there- Okay in front of us, which was awesome. And actually writing a book on that, um, called, uh, coincidentally, The Local Growth Formula. Uh- Nice coming out later this year, which is gonna be super cool. But, um- That is cool Trellis has, has really been a, a fantastic e-expression of values for all three of us in, in just slightly different shades. And I, I think it came about probably through s- uh, a lens of a, a few drinks, lens of some rose-colored glasses, and just, like, naive optimism about what could be. It is not all rainbows and butterflies. The food service industry, has very thin margins, especially coffee. And in fact, like, it, it has not been financially rewarding today to, to any of our partners, but it, it's profitable, paying for itself And more than that, it's just been like this abundant lighthouse for the community. It's about 40 seconds from my house, which I mentioned before is in more of like a downtown environment. And, my partner lives a couple blocks up from me. So w- we just-- My, my, my kids get to grow up seeing a business that, employs people that don't look like them, serves people that, are neighbors from all over our city, and i- it's just like a, a wonderful opportunity to see the local grow formula at play, and it's been fun. I also genuinely love coffee. Um- give me a cappuccino or a cortado in the morning and a, and a cardamom bun and, and we're set. I can get a lot of work done. Okay.

Russel 23:31

I love this. Uh, you, you would not... You, you might look down upon my coffee drinking. I, I pretty much just have a milkshake that is coffee flavored when, at the end of the day for me. But, uh- Oh boy. But I can certainly appreciate a coffee guru yourself and how you approach it and probably-- I'm probably missing out on the, all the beauty that is coffee. You're missing out. We can change it. Yep.

Be Your Own Client

Russel 23:50

Well, m- more back to the, the business side. I, I, I really love that, and I've, I've seen other folks do this in a similar way of, one, it, it kind of gets to this idea of be your own best client, but if you can even practice on what could be a similar type customer someday, like it, it's kind of even what we talked about, coach having a coach. It's... What's that old saying from that commercial? "I'm not only a hair club president, I'm also a client." That, the, just the, the ways you'll probably experiment and try things and, and prove what you do is successful k- has to be so powerful when you're, when you're showing up in your client work and, uh, even in the sales process to- Hmm have a little more, going back to imposter syndrome, having a little more confidence in how you're showing up in the sales process. Yeah. Amen to that. Good, good.

Lessons From Agency Sale

Russel 24:38

Well, let's get back to this idea of how this experience shaped you of going through a kind of entire growth phase to sale of an agency. What did you learn then about that process or being part of that, that you were able to take with you in your own agency today?

Ross 24:55

Yeah, and, and let's be extra clear. I was a, an agency partner in, um, by, by honor and name only. Sure. I think it was like 3% of not a lot, if that makes sense. Um- That's,

Russel 25:08

uh, that's still, that's still a lot by, just in terms of what you're exposed to and experience, I imagine.

Ross 25:14

Yeah. I think it was, it was actually... It was so-- Yeah, um, the day we sold, my, my boss, who, who was a mentor and a dear friend to this day, pulled me into the office and said: "Hey, I'm gonna give you 3% right before the sale goes, and, you know, the payout's for like 15 years, so you gotta stay on for that long." Um, whatever. But, uh, yeah, that meant a lot. And what I said before when I said I had no business being in the room for those things, I mean, that, that truly was what it was. Like I, I was just a kid, didn't know anything, truly don't know what value I could actually bring other than just like being eager and excited and a source of energy and willingness to jump in where needed at that time that our boss needed from us, right? Like he, he needed that in order to just fulfill the w- the operations of the agency, fulfill the, you know, just the emotional demands of the agency. In a small agency, a lot of people are wearing a lot of hats, and sometimes the-- I mean, there are no business operating systems in place, and that can be unfortunate, but also like, hey, that's the requirement to show up to work that day and wear a hat you may not be comfortable wearing. And I think- That concept ended up being like honed in on the client and account management side, and then also the paid ads. And within that, there's tons of different hats you can wear, but those were my set of hats to, to wear. And, and my friend and business partner, Josh, his hats to wear were all on the creative side. And, come to find out, just because you're a creative doesn't mean you know how to design websites or develop websites- or hosting or whatever else, but I thought you did. Uh. Yeah.

Russel 26:54

Yeah. I went through that journey too. I think in some of the early days, the designer we had looked... stuff looked really great in a digital environment, yeah, you gotta have a different set of knowledge and- That's right. That's very true seems to be more commonplace nowadays. But yeah, in the, in, in the earlier stages of our space, that's, uh, definitely a different skill set. Yeah

Systems Over Unicorns

Russel 27:13

how much did that play around, play into, I know part of your journey too, something that's been successful for you is, I think you termed it as playbooks or just having maybe a little more structure, guidance, w- guide rails in terms of how things get done in your business. Is-- What made that such an important thing for you to create and do, and what does that look like in your business?

Ross 27:35

Yeah. I think it was a, a tale of two cities almost with our, our first agency. You know, my, my boss was a product of the '80s, and, this was a creative himself, and it was an acc- accidental entrepreneur, right? Like ended up there. And so he had no playbooks. Uh, and also he had the crutch of me and Josh, who, you know, we... This is self-aggrandizing. I'm not intending it to be, but like we're unicorns. We, not only were willing, but had some level of hard skill, gumption, and ability, and then some soft skill gumption and ability to jump on in. And so like we-- he didn't need systems because he had us, and we would create systems there. And, that- that's all I knew. Fast-forward going to this other agency, it was called Jolly Sherpa, super fun name, and, Chris was my late friend was just overly systematized and overly process-oriented. But I saw what could happen, the growth that could happen, with some systems and, and processes in place. And, that carried over into, into Fence Post where, I had the luxury of retaining a W2 while growing a, a business that was double that size on the side. And, you know, the whole time got to take all the things I was learning and just chunking it into my own freelance business, right? Yeah. Um, a- and creating systems and processes before we ever needed them. And today, I think as the team has grown, we're a team of close to 12 now, and that's our backbone. I, I don't think we could possibly manage the, you know, book of business that we've got without those systems and processes in place. And I think the other thing is the leg up I had was, was recognizing some of that early on, but maybe not understanding the full weight and importance of that, and then understanding the gravitas as I got into a mastermind group that really pushed those and a- as I got a, a pinnacle business coach, a, a implementer essentially. And, um, that, that really helped launch us.

Russel 29:27

Oh, man. Yeah, it, it just, it, it seems like, what a... Word perfect storm is coming to mind, but storm isn't really what's happening here. It's, uh, what's like a ni- what's a nice version of that same thought process where these different experiences of night and day- Hmm um, that you're getting to have that really, really seem primed to set you up for where you're at today. I, I'm- What a great way to look at it a little jealous I didn't have

Ross 29:53

this experience, uh, coming up. Man, thank you for that. That's a good perspective too. Sometimes you need outside perspective. Oh, it's almost like a coach to just shine a light on that because, yeah, I'd never thought of it that way, but you're right. Exactly right. Yeah.

Russel 30:06

Yeah. And, you know, it does speak to, and, you know, I honestly, I don't think we were the greatest at solving this in our agency before I get out, and I see it a lot more clearly now, is how much we were relying on some amount of unicorn-ness, unicorns to manage a lot of our business and ta- versus taking the time to really invest of breaking roles down, um, into more meaningful, teachable moments and to understand what's concepts that we need to share and teach and bringing people through. It's a hard thing. It takes a lot of investment, but, um, yeah, it sounds like you would, you would be a good testimonial to say, "Hey, it's a worthy investment to make."

Ross 30:46

I agree 100%. I will endorse that That statement

Keeping Playbooks Fresh

Ross 30:51

for sure but even talking about it, I'm like, oh gosh, I haven't revisited our playbooks in a little while. You know, it's like, oh. Yeah.

Russel 30:57

Yeah. That, that is the hard thing, I think is that becomes the discipline is not always, it's not always the creation, it is the keeping up with in a meaningful way that's not, is the right amount of necessary, but not too cumbersome. But, how do you not let them get dusty?

Ross 31:13

Yeah, they do get dusty. Digitally dusty. Digitally dusty.

Russel 31:16

Well,

Big Vision for 2030

Russel 31:17

awesome. I mean, as you're looking at the business today, what, to the extent you want or can, what does the future look like? What are you trying to achieve with all this?

Ross 31:28

Yeah. I'm gonna look over here at our strategic vision and- execution plan. You know, having a coach, the other thing that a coach will do is just push you to dream a little bit bigger. And I'm sitting here still thinking that looks unreasonable. But yeah, we wanna try to hit 6.4 million, uh, at 50%. It's very specific. It is. It is. At, at 50% profit, and, um, we wanna do that by 2030 And honestly, we are-- Our, our big, hairy, audacious goal is to have our local growth formula in every city across the United States. Wow. And we can't do that. We can't have a, a client in every city across the US. That would be... Shoot, who am I to say? Maybe we can. I don't think so, but that's me sitting in the middle. And the way we can do that is just getting our, our methodology of this local growth formula out there in, in the form of content. And, this book is something that I was pushed to do, and I think it'll be helpful in that. But we will settle for a client in all 50 states, by 2030. A worthy- That's our big, hairy, audacious

Russel 32:35

a worthy goal. At one point in the agency, it never came to fruition, but, had this goal of sort of this multi-city expansion, and my vision was always when I'd fly Southwest, and I had the map of all the places Southwest went, and I was like, "I wanna have a location in every, every Southwest airport location." That is very cool. Yeah. That is very cool. Did, did not happen, by the way. But, but, I, I remember very much holding onto that napkin, that vision. And so yeah, you've got a, got a vision, you got a plan, you've got a model, and you've got the right experience. So, I have no doubt that will come true for you. So- Thank you look forward to watching that part of your journey, uh, evolve and, and helping communities, and man,

Born or Made?

Russel 33:14

that's gonna be exciting. So one last big question then for you, Ross. Are entrepreneurs born or are they made?

Ross 33:20

My, my six-year-old daughter last night, we went on a daddy-daughter date. Nice. And I asked her, I, I said, "What's your favorite food?" And that's what she said. She said, "That's a good question." It's, it was wild. It's... Yeah. Are entrepreneurs born or are they made? Uh, I think my life is probably a great endorsement for they are made. I think that anybody can be an entrepreneur. I'm a big fan of the Predictive Index. I'm a, I'm a guardian on the Predictive Index, and that means I'm like, I don't know, I care a lot about systems and speed, and that's just not a natural-born entrepreneur. Uh, I'm not a risk guy. And so I think my life experiences have pushed me in this direction, and I'm really thankful for that. And so if, if they're born, then it was innate in me all along, and this was just the right time. But I think based on my experience, they're, they're made.

Russel 34:10

Yeah. Maybe you're born and, like everything else, you are resisting your journey. It's, uh, you're a tough nut to crack, but, it eventually broke through. But no, I, I tend to fall in line with that too, that it's, look, you can be born or made. What is it people say often? That it's you may be born, but you have to be made. Hmm and, yeah, that's a, that's a really good answer there. Awesome, man.

Where to Follow Ross

Russel 34:31

Well, if people wanna know more about Fins Post and your journey, where can they go?

Ross 34:36

Yeah. Um, follow me on LinkedIn, uh, Ross McDaniel. Go visit us at finspost.co if you're a local service business that needs some help growing predictably and profitably, we'd love to talk to you. Uh, and then follow us on Instagram, tips and tricks, finspost.co. Well, there

Russel 34:53

you have it, folks. And those links will all also be on go to anagencystory.com, and I'll have all those links and, uh, some takeaways and recaps of the amazing thoughts that Ross shared today.

Key Takeaways Recap

Russel 35:06

Speaking of which, just to won't capture them all, but just a quick recap of talking about just finding value near you, value within, is a great way to, to get past that imposter syndrome, but really also the power of investing in and focusing on your community. And then being your own, guinea pig, your own test client, having a, a business where you can really see if-- put your money where your mouth is, and then always the ever-present power of playbooks if you wanna grow and scale. And to never underestimate as well as a powerful goal and vision and what you can achieve if you can put a stake in the ground on where you're trying to go. Really appreciate you taking the time to share all that with us today, Ross. Russel, it's a pleasure, truly. Glad to be here. Likewise. Pleasure is all mine.

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Russel 35:48

Thank you for listening to An Agency Story podcast, where every story helps write your own. Subscribe, share and join us again for more real stories, lessons learned, and breakthroughs ahead. What's next? You'll wanna visit anagencystory.com/podcast, and follow us on Instagram at An Agency Story for the latest updates.

The New Kid on the Block

Ross 36:11

Oh, man. Here in Augusta, there's, uh, the belle of the ball, popular girl in school, Agency, is a, a branding and design agency. Uh, they started around the same time that our first one did. And we shared a mutual client, big client, tax prep client, and, we were at their big annual vendor summit. I'm just a kid. This other guy's like an established agency owner. We go in, we're bumping shoulders. We're, we're sitting down, he spills coffee all over my lap. Intentionally or not, I, I don't know. I tend to think no. He looks at me, says, "Ugh, that sucks," turns away and just keeps talking. And so the rest of the day I am, I've been spurned by the popular girl in school, and, uh, have to, to go the rest of the day with coffee on my pants. So that's my, you know, tongue in cheek. Today we have a great relationship. They actually spoke kindly to me the other day, which is awesome just seeing them out and about as a, as an adult now, right? Yeah. But, uh, yeah, the early days of, of agency life