What If The Villain’s Power Is Really Untreated Pain

A newborn talks from the womb, delivers himself, and immediately starts asking the one question most adults avoid: why. That’s the spark of Kirikou And The Sorceress, Michel Ocelot’s French animated folktale inspired by West African folklore, and it turned into one of those reviews where the deeper we looked, the more the movie revealed. We break down what makes Kirikou such a rare kind of hero: tiny, hyper-competent, relentlessly curious, and willing to challenge a whole village when fear turns everyone irrational.

We also get into the debates people bring to this film, especially the controversy over non-sexual nudity in animation and why that critique often says more about Western discomfort than about the story on screen. From there we talk visuals and craft: the shadow theater feel, the flat profile styling, and the lush Henri Rousseau inspired backgrounds that make the environment feel almost more alive than the characters. If you love hand-drawn 2D animation, art history influences, or European animation that does not follow Hollywood rules, there’s a lot here.

Then the conversation turns to the film’s hardest ideas: the poison thorn in Karaba’s back, the allegory of trauma, and an ending that chooses healing over vengeance. We connect that to the reveal about the missing men, the ripple effects of violence, and what it means to “solve” a problem without pretending it was never there. We also cover the film’s production story and how the Kirikou effect helped unlock a wave of French and European animated features.

Subscribe for more movie reviews with real analysis, share this with a friend who thinks animation is “just for kids,” and leave a rating and review so more people can find the show. What animated film changed your mind as an adult?

Transcript

Cold Open And 1998 Time Warp

SPEAKER_00 0:24

You know, I love it when I love it when we start these things and you say these things that are great for the podcast, but we haven't started recording yet. Say it again.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

I can say it again.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Say it again.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Are you recording yet?

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

You want me to just jump into it?

SPEAKER_00 0:40

I want you to jump right into it, baby.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Oh, well, this movie that we reviewed for the podcast today came out in 1998. And I was looking at the information and I was like, oh, 1998. That was like a few years ago. And then I was like, wait a minute.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

I was still in California.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

It was not Louisa.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

It was before Chicago or before, well, well before the honey thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

I was in high school. In Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Why Kirikou Hooks You Fast

SPEAKER_00 1:11

Where you're still at. Alright. What did we watch?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Kirikou and the Sorceress.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Okay, I don't know what's been going on, but somehow I have I'm I've I'm weak and I give in to these. I find these animations that I think you'll like, and I know any of the guys out there who are listening to this is like, why in the hell do you are you watching this middle-aged white guy?

SPEAKER_01 1:43

Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to add, sorry for interrupting, but you should have seen him watching this movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

I was awake. You fell asleep.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

You were wide awake and you were really into it, like you're making comments.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Well, I mean, okay, alright, fine.

SPEAKER_01 1:57

But it could have been like quote a pretend act, I'm just saying. You were watching it.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

It was not an act. It was a good story, but I felt like um oh, there's another. Uh I gotta cut that out. How would this is something I became I became aware of as we were watching it? There was a moral thread to it that it was trying to communicate. But it delivered it, you know what it was, it was a it's a lot like watching an animation of a child's like a a trill children's story. Like one of those. Do you remember those? I'm sure they still make them the golden edged hard. What are those called?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Golden Books.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Golden Books, yeah. It was like that, but it was it's set in Africa, you're made to believe. It's a it's a all black tribe.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

It's like a folktale.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Folkt tale. Wait a minute. Oh. Oh, okay. Sorry about this. When I looked at when I looked at the chat that you sent me, it started, I didn't have it all the way scrolled down, it started out with sorceress, and I read that as sorcerer. I'm like, you sent me the wrong movie. We already did this months ago. It has nothing to do with a sorceress, it's about a truck.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

What movie did we do months ago that was with the sorcerer?

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Sorcerer. With the truck? You know, and uh all those guys they moved to uh Oh my gosh, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

I got it.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

People actually like that review.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

Yeah, and I think Raising Arizona too.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah, that's been picking up.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

I saw over your shoulder the other day. Or just I mean, a little bit ago. But I also was thinking about that movie this morning when I woke up.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

So Kiraku and the Sorceress, 1998 film by French director Michel. I want to say Osalot, but it looks like maybe it is Aselot. Inspired by the West African folklore. The movie moves and follows miraculous newborn Kiraku who uses intellect and curiosity to save the village from powerful sorceress.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

Oh my gosh, this is like one of the I can't help myself.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

I want please don't apologize. What about it?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

It was a great opening.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

This was the This little kid. He just starts talking in the womb.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

From the start. In the womb. Yeah, did you hear that? In the womb.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

And he's very the personality is like precocious. Very. He's like, Mom, I'm ready to get me out of here. And his mom, you can tell that this is like a real dynamic. She's like, You want to be out so bad? You get out.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

You can do it by yourself. If you can talk, you can do it by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

He's like, Mom, this is great being out of here. I want a math. And she's like, do it yourself. I'm like, wow, this kid is being raised in the hood.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

But he's such a cute little tiny guy.

Nudity As Culture Not Shock

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah, like while in the womb and out, he already has. It's a cartoon, of course. Excuse me. Pardon. Animation. It is, he's he forms full thoughts, has conversations, but he still has a childlike, I guess, the way he presents to the world. And he runs. He runs everywhere. Very he's he's the fastest runner in his village. And I'm gonna get back to this here. To save his village from the powerful sorceress Karaba. Scholars evaluate the film through the lens of Orientalism, debating whether the portrayal of African culture is nuanced and respectful. Oh, this must have been well, the guy was French, so I I he could have been a an African French person. I don't know. I have not looked up the story of Michel Asilot. Actually, you might want to see if you can pull that up, see if there's a if there's anything about him. Scholars evaluate the film through the lens of Orientalism, debating whether the portrayal of African culture is nuanced and respectful, or if it reinforces Western stereotypes regarding superstition and rationality. Text also highlight the film's distinctive and visual style, which draws inspiration from Egyptian art and the paintings of Henre Rousseau, which you have uh you're having a moment over. What did you just say about Walter?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Well, so his paintings are beautiful. I really loved them.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

He was not the animator, he was that's who the animation was based off. Correct? Yes. Right, okay. Go ahead. It's like um draws inspiration from Egyptian art and the paintings of uh Henre Rousseau. Additionally, the sources discuss controversies surrounding the film's natural nudity. Which is I don't know what the distribution was like. I had never heard of this movie before, but it's an African tribe, and I don't think this was this wasn't a Hannah Barbera project that was beamed into every American home. It was a movie, it was a it was a folk tale. I don't see why. I I look at movies like this through the lens of it depends on how it's to be distributed and who it's being distributed to. So all the women are bare breasted and the men are all fully naked, including Kiriku, who's who runs everywhere. But it's kind of a I don't know. I suppose I look at this as if you know anything about the world, if you know anything about remote tribes in Africa, they don't have the same garment requirements that the Western world does. And you look at this animation through that lens. Now, if I wouldn't I could s understand your niece Violet watching this and maybe questioning it, but then you have a dialogue with the kid about this is in a different place. Yeah. And things are different where when you travel around.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

It's a it's a this is what I want.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

It's like the learning point of the kid. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

It's a teaching experience and or a t what do they call it a teachable moment.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:52

And when I see stuff like this, I always, you know, this p people being uh drawn or animated in the nude. I'm like, you have a conversation about that, you don't just like shirk away from it. This is what I this is what I don't like about critics. They always find something that they can take a negative tilt on. It's just kind of absurd.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yeah, it didn't even occur to me because, like you said, you start watching this movie and immediately you're in this, you're watching it through this lens, and you're not, it's not these people are naked.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

My biggest issue with all with film critics outside of our little endeavor here is that just kind of negative a negative critique or components of a critique. I almost feel like a lot of critics go into that profession so they can grumble about something. You know, that's not that's just it's a different world and a different time, and it's an anime. Like, I wouldn't want them to be fully clear.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

It wouldn't it wouldn't be the same, it wouldn't be right.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

It wouldn't look this is supposed to be a remote village, you don't know when it is. It's it comes across as folklore. So it just seems like a made-up gripe.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Yeah. I didn't realize until researching that it would be quite the issue. I should have known had I thought about it more, probably, the issue of the nudity, if it's even an issue. But also I have to say that um I guess in a way like I appreciated it because um like I love costumes and jewelry and accessories, and for the sorceress, yeah, she was all accessories. It was she was drawn so beautifully. She had on so all of the villagers had on a very simple, I would call it a long skirt, and that's all they wore.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

And then this the the women.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

The women, thank you. And the the sorceress, who's a wim a woman, um, she had on a very fancy, like patterned long skirt, and then she had jewelry all over the upper half of her body. I mean, including her crown and all her necklaces and things, but just like I don't know, I really liked that. It was very attractive. It made her like she was adorned character, you know. She was adorned. Also, we have to go back for just a moment to um Henry Rousseau, because I think I didn't really say anything about that. I was gonna look it up, but yeah, it would make such great wallpaper, like I could see it in like a restaurant bathroom or the walls of my apartment.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I have no doubt he would be crushed hearing that.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

I'm sorry, Henry Rousseau, I don't mean it like that.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

But your art is a super high-end restaurant. Okay, I think that's a good thing. Something where they serve escargove and prime rib.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yep, that's right.

Slide Deck Research And NotebookLM

SPEAKER_00 11:57

Or my apartment, and we don't serve that here, so uh so you you did a little pitch deck here. Is that what it's called on the slide deck? This is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

It's so cool. Did you see it?

SPEAKER_00 12:13

I'm looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Sorry, so I know that we talked about this in what in a recent episode of Cre Tac of Cre Creative Capitalists, but um when we do our workout, get ready to do, yeah, our episode. Um, we use Notebook LM, and most of the time that we sign into new notebook LM, there are new features, and they just blow, I'm gonna say, for both of us, our minds. And last time we discovered this slide deck, or maybe it was two episodes ago, and it's so cool. And like I'm very like much about visual presentation and colors and all that, and the slide deck that came up for um Kiriku and the sorcerer sorceress, um, it's like very like the style is all in the animation of the city. Yeah, it's exactly like the I was like, this is so cool. So anyway, just to tell the people who are listening and not watching, or not like looking at what we're looking at.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Kiriku and the Sorceress Anatomy of an animated masterpiece, unpacking the folklore, ancestry, and cultural impact of Michel Aselot's 1998 classic. This was released in France. So when I hear things, I'm gonna throw back a little bit to the critique that said, should they all be nude? This was released in France. That that is purely an American critique. That is not a critique design like the people of France would be like, what's the big deal?

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Very good.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

And that absolutely makes sense. So when I see that, I'm like, this is definitely an American guy that wrote that.

SPEAKER_03 13:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Okay, themes unpacking the folklore, artistry, and the cultural impact of a modern animation classic. So, you want to go to deck two?

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Sure. Um, let me get back there.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Uh because I'm terrible at navigating this thing and I just bounced out of it and now I gotta get back in.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

So do your thing.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

We were talking about um Kiraku in the womb and how he was talking in the womb and saying to his mother, Mom, I wanna get out. I'm done being, I don't know what you call it, um I'm done waiting. I'm done waiting, you know. Has it been nine months yet? Um and then he comes out of the womb and he again, great opening, very fun, very you learn exactly who this character is immediately, and he's just so cute and precocious and starts questioning the world. Everything about it.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

That's fun because kids do that. Kids are like, why is this? Why is this? Why is this?

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

And you know what's interesting about this? They point that out. That kids do that, and at the end scene when he's meeting his grandfather, he gets in front of that. That that how question how children question those scenes. He gets in front of Kirikus constantly asking, why is this, why is this? And he tells Kiriku, if you do that, you pull yourself out of the moment, you get away from the real question that you want to know at the time, and you go on this, you go down this rabbit hole and you start answering questions that you don't necessarily have or are even framed for yet. And I thought that was interesting that a piece of animation that addressed that with children. Sort of a way to say, like, hey, slow down.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

When you get, ask a question or two to get your mind around it. But if all you if you just get in this never-ending loop of asking why, you're not really focusing on what the answer means.

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Yeah, that's true.

Disney Structure Versus Oral Tradition

SPEAKER_00 16:15

And let's see what else. Diminutive advantage. They take advantage the Kiraku takes advantage of how little he is and how uniquely he is shaped being a baby, to change the circumstances of this village that has had all of its jewelry and water stolen by this princess or by the what's her name? Sorceress. The sorceress. So funny, what's this say here? It's inspired by West African folk tales collected by Francois Victor Elaboc. Aquellabac. Oh, the French are hating me right now. In 1912, especially the Falani tale of the child. Forgive me here. Offer me some grace. I do not speak French. Or Afrikaans or any of the innumerable language languages in Africa.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

I'm not going to attempt um.

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Hold on a minute here. Baguam Bagwam Away? Bagwamaway? And the witch Neju Dewal. I am not familiar with those, but I'm assuming this story is pretty similar. Rewriting the animated fairy tale structure. This is interesting. Oh, this is neat. Did you see this? They take a they compare the disnification of a story like this and compare it to the West African oral tradition. So for this is neat because when you see it written out like this, you can make more sense of how the story was told. So in Disney's Western breakdown of a story, there is a smooth narrative curve with a traditional rising action. But the West African oral tradition, it is lumpy, staccato, episodic chapters with hard resets. And that was definitely the case.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

The sorceress is she does things to slowly detract resources from this village. She takes their water, then she takes all their gold, and then she's trying to take the children away. And Kira comes and saves these kids on the multiple occasions, and right after they celebrate and herald what what how wonderful this kid is, then they start doing other shenanigans, and he tries to like he is the voice of reason and steps in and says, Hey, you stop slow down, stop doing that. This is the emper or the sorceress trying to get a hold of you, and both times they're like, Shut up, fuck off, get out of here. We're not listening to you, you're an idiot. So it's it's this kind of disjointed pattern, and they're not immediately, they're not necessarily learning immediately.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

I do love that musical comparison. Um I guess that's another big part of I would say African culture, but also like Disney movies, and they are. There are these huge, you know, um character-driven, as it says here, um, Broadway style musical numbers. And then in um this movie that we watched, um, you know, everybody singing together.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

They're there's they kind of make up songs as they go, and they're a little haphazard and they're very basic and they're very they get the story told, it's not some big huge thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:44

Yeah, yeah. I kind of liked it when they all sang all the time.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Western stories are personality driven, highly campy antagonists. Where the West African, the sheer force of nature entirely dri there is a excuse me, a sheer force of nature entirely driven by unrelated trauma, or excuse me, unhealed trauma. The thorn, which we'll get to in a little bit. In the Western version, there is a flawless, humble, reluctant underdog, where in the African there is an arrogant, impulsive, demanding, hypercompetent child. I didn't know that was a a uh through thread for African stories.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

I don't know if that's a good idea either, but I'm not very familiar with African.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

That's interesting that there's stor that there's a lot of stories with a child who is like who looks at what the adults do, and you're doing everything dumb.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Yeah. I know better than you.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

And it's it's funny because in some sense they're a child, they don't know what they're talking about, but in others a child sees the world in a very simplistic fashion. You know, like adults would look at war, for example, and say, hey, we you know we have to inflict violence on this other community or this other race or this other country.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Because we don't like we don't like we don't like what they're doing or they impact our economic policies or whatever, but a child would look at that and say, You shouldn't hurt people.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

It's not right, yeah.

Shadow Theater Look And Rousseau Flora

SPEAKER_00 22:22

And argument. Can be made for both cases, but if like in the general the human view is that of a child. It's like you you shouldn't blow people up. You wouldn't like it if somebody did that to you. Exactly. I don't want to have to pay more for gas. What do we got next? The aesthetics of the African shadow theater. I'm gonna let you take this one.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Okay. Um well quite honestly, I it's it's a it's very like word heavy.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Um but monochromatic 2D silhouettes devoid of traditional perspective cues. She didn't want to say that.

SPEAKER_01 23:12

No, I mean it's just yeah. It's a lot of words. But I think that there's a better way maybe to say it. So like this um slide talks about the foreground and the characters, and then talks about the background or the environment, and also talks about the details. And I think I um kind of talked about this, alluded to it earlier, and um I could definitely see, so they're talking about um well the aesthetics of African shadow puppet theater. Um and I mean I'm not like highly uh versed in shadow puppetry, but I do know like a thing or two about it because it's used in like a lot of Asian show uh Asian puppetry shows, and um I guess what I'm trying to say is I could see it in the drawings of the sorceress, the way that she was portrayed, she would make a great shadow puppet.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

So it says here in the details, intricate high contrast jewelry is utilized to make gestures legible despite flat silhouette styling. So her body and her face herself, in it's not really 3D. It's not really three-dimensional. It's more it's flatter, but their use of her adornments, what's on her neck and on her earrings, and the bejewelments around her eyes and her breast and the jewels in her hair, those move, which sort of leaves you with it's sort of an optical illusion that makes you see her move.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Mm-hmm. I would agree, yeah, well said.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

And then the background environment is a hyper-detailed, botanically accurate, tropical flora. Every petal and leaf is rendered iridescently, so all the all the flora and anything that was growing in the all the plant life really looked alive because that was all painted with, and you can see it there with iridescent paint, so it it it was almost more alive than the characters.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Yeah. Mm-hmm. It was beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Every petal and leaf is rendered iridescently, drawing direct inspiration from native artist Henre Rousseau.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Which I'm so glad that I I like researched and read about this because I would not have I don't have that in my so-called wheelhouse. Like I wouldn't have known that, but that's really I mean it's beautiful. The animation in this is just I mean, I'd say stunning.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

There's a lot of stuff in this deck here. Do you wanna we might have to skip a few of these? Yeah, I would um Oh, the this was interesting that Caraba the Sorceress and her fetishes. So the fetishes were like her little African automaton robot type people that worked for her.

SPEAKER_01 26:29

Oh, gotcha. Thank you for yeah, mm-hmm, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

And the watchers were these, they were just kind of mechanized looking guys with big red eyes. And they looked all over, like when they were searching for Kiraku, she decided she didn't like him and he was foiling her plans to steal the kids and steal all the jewelry. These guys would throughout the story would scan the horizon and try to find him. And the fetchers were the same things, they were the they were these automatons, but they had giant hands for taking things. And the sniffers were the same things, only with big long noses, and they would sniff out gold.

SPEAKER_03 27:10

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

The dark twist, the fetishes are not magical constructs. They are the missing men of the village. Oh, I didn't realize that.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

I didn't either, definitely not.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

Perform transformed into servile stripped-down robots by Karaba to enforce her absolute power. I didn't realize that. Yeah, because they didn't have any features. They would they all look the same.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

They really didn't. And I don't know if this is getting too far ahead too quickly, but I think along with that comes so um we said that we would discuss the thorn.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Um that's in the next slide. Later in.

The Poison Thorn And Trauma Allegory

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Oh, okay. Well, that has to do with the missing men of the village, I think. Oh no, maybe not, actually. I didn't think that through well before I spoke. Um but there's like a men and a woman. Uh a woman, um what do you call that? Like a lack of better words, like a rift between them that people dismiss. Oh, I I see what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 28:17

Yeah, yeah. Alright, so our next slide here talks about the cycle of the poison thorn.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Oh yeah, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

So when you Kiraku travels beyond the sorcerer's lair or mountain to a to a more distant mountain far off in the background, then that is where his grandfather resides. And the grand he he goes to see the gr his grandfather and he's trying to understand why. What's her name? This the sorceress?

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Caribou or something?

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Car not caribou.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Carabah. Carabah? I'm not sorry. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Karaba.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Karaba, you're right, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Why she's she is the way she is. And he details for Karakou that there is there has been a thorn, a poison thorn jammed into her into her back. Now what does it tell us here? The assault, the thorn. A group of men plunged a poison thorn into her back, an allegory for collective sexual violence and trauma, which absolutely makes sense, especially in Africa, where sexual servitude is and violence is I don't want to say it's the norm, but it's I've heard I have seen news reports of whenever there is conflict in Africa, sex um violence and sexual assault against women is utilized as a weapon towards communities. Unspeakable pain and shame. The thorn causes endless physical agony, but inadvertently grants magical power. She is ostracized. This was this is the interesting part. And his grandfather emphasized this defensive rage or sorcery. Karaba dissociates from her body, turns men into fetishes, and aggressively destroys the environment. And this is all brought about by the pain that the thorn has inflicted upon her. And then Kiriku's intervention, a literal physical extraction of the thorn, symbolizing the bursting of the psychological abscess. And the grandfather would say, This is you're gonna pull this out of her, and it's gonna cause her immense pain, but only briefly. And then she's gonna be a completely different person.

SPEAKER_03 31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

The radical climax of healing over vengeance. Restoration. Kiraku defeats Karaba not by killing her, but by curing her immense suffering. And this was kind of the weird scene in the movie when he's like, he's this newborn. He's like, come on, make out with me. Yeah, kiss me. She's like, I can't do that. Okay, I can do that. Borrowed from Western fairy tale motifs, but radically inverted. A woman awakens a child into adulthood rather than a prince awakening a passive princess. So she kisses Kiraku and he grows into a man, right? Which is it's a cartoon, but you you see this happen with men when they like any person who gets their first kiss, like things change. You grow up a bit. Redeem masculinity. Kiraku's magical transformation into a man symbolizes a new peaceful relationship between the sexes, actively redeeming the harm previously inflicted by male violence. And again, this is an allegory. It's it's not interpersonal. It it it's more of a generational thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

You do you know what I mean? Like if someone commits rape, they can't just go and stroke their victim's head and say, I'm sorry, I won't do it again.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

Right.

Production Challenges And The Kirikou Effect

SPEAKER_00 32:38

It has to be this the cycle has to be broken. Like if that person ever had offspring, his children have to be taught, you know, your father's a piece of shit and he brutalized women and he raped people. And he but he's like that because he wasn't shown love or the love he was shown was perverted. So for you not to do this, you have to be better than that. And they that that child has to be shown love and support and has to be reared in a uh in in an environment that would uh allow for that. This is the did you see this bit on Pan-European is it Caropian bricolage? What is this? Where are you um just under the thing about the thorn? Oh, this is where oh, this is with a production. So the voices were recorded in Dakar in Senegal and South Africa. Oh yeah, this was done all over.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

I didn't realize how big this I know this is really cool information.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Animation was executed at Regia Studio in Latvia and Studio Exist in Budapest, Hungary. Post-production completed by Odette Kidd cartoons in Brussels and Les Armatur in France.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

And it says the financial struggle, it took two full years to gather the three point eight million in funding from disjointed grants, forcing the low budget production to scatter across six studios in five different countries, which I think recently reviewed um an animated short that took a long time with lots of countries involved just like this. I mean similar.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

You know, there was a movie that I don't know if we've reviewed it, but we looked at an Instagram and it's escaping me right now. But the we did not review this yet. And I don't remember the title, but it took many years to complete. It started with one studio, and then through a num for a number of reasons, it was not completed at that studio, it was picked up by someone else. It was that one with those angels in it on my Instagram feed. And the production and the animation style at the back half of the film looked nothing like the beginning. It was Hungarian.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Hungary picked it up at the end, and I think it was originally started in England. I'll have to flip around and see this, but that's the thing about a movie is if you lose the studio while you're producing a place, you really run the risk of not having a the continuity being messed up. Right. When you lose when your animators have to change, because you know if you if you have one set of illustrators and artists, and then you sw jump to somebody completely different, not only do you have a different style, but they're also working off a different interpretation of the source material.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Right. Yeah. Yeah, that is interesting. We should look, we should go back and find that.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

I'll find that at some point. But um what is this, the Kiraiku effect. Kirikou sells 1.5 million tickets in France. Definitively providing autour 2D animation can be highly profitable. That was in 98, and then in 2003 directly leads to the green lighting and success of the triplets of Belleville, which we haven't watched. I have watched, you haven't seen that yet.

SPEAKER_01 36:28

Yes, I've never seen that movie.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

You you I don't know if you'd enjoy it or not, because I'm always surprised but what you do and don't like.

SPEAKER_01 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

It is it's very French, but the animation exaggerates features in the characters, and I know sometimes you have a problem with that.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

I do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

But it'd be worried, I think it was there's mostly it's mostly musically driven, which you might I don't know, you might be conflicted. I know I can't remember.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

I know my mom's seen it, and she's probably told me what she thought about it, and I can't remember what she said. I mean, in terms of if I would like it or not, or if I should watch it.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

So eventually this paves the way for adult animation masterpieces like I have not seen this either. Persephilis.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Yep, I remember this movie too. I've not seen it, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Before Kyriku financing French animated features was nearly impossible. After where it sparked a genuine little golden age of European animation and directly inspired the foundation of African studios like Pitkun in Senegal.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

Yeah, it's really cool that it opened up the doors for so many um other projects.

Quick Quiz And Deep Cuts

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Form and function, legacy of a tiny hero, the aesthetics, the flat Egyptian profiles combined with hyper-detail Rousseau flora, construct a live, breathing shadow theater. In terms of the narrative, actively subverts the Orientalist tropes by championing empiricism over superstition while deeply honoring authentic African folklore. The unifying inside Kiraku and the Sorceress and a mess is a masterwork because of its uncompromising cultural authenticity. Now, I'm not normally into animation, and we don't typically give negative reviews here, but I think this, if we had P believe, I almost said if we had kids. But for people with kids who understand the value of travel and understanding different cultures, this is worthwhile to see. Did you want to you want to take a crack at the uh I think we got time for uh some of the quiz? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Alright, yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

We'll go back.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

I like these details.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Alright, which specific theoretical framework is used in Sarah Hennef's analysis to evaluate Michael Oslot's portrayal of African culture? Orientalism, formalism, Marxist film theory, or post-structuralism?

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Orientalism.

SPEAKER_00 39:31

That is correct to mundo. Edward Saed's theory of Orientalism is used to examine whether the film perpetuates colonialist stereotypes or offers a nuanced respectful depiction of non-Western culture. Good job. Next.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 39:48

You already read these.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

I did do a couple of them.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Unbelievable. You're cheating.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Well, I just wanted to make sure that the other thing is. Anyway, what does the Kiraku effect? Excuse me, what does the Kira?

SPEAKER_00 40:00

Oh my god, third time. What does the Kiraku effect refer to in the context of the French animation industry? A mandate requiring all French animators to be based on international folklore? A revitalization of French feature film industry with a flood of new projects? C, a rapid shift from 2D hand-drawn animation to three D computer generated imagery, or D, introduction of non-sexual nudity in children's television programming across Europe.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

I would say B, I think.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Revitalization of the French film industry with the flood of new projects?

SPEAKER_01 40:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Oh good.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Film's box office success proved that French animated features could be profitable, encouraging investors, and resulting in many new feature-length projects. According to the analysis of the film subtext, what is the symbolic meaning behind the poison thorn in Caraba's back? A magical talisman that gives her immortality in exchange for her kindness. B. A metaphor for the trauma of sexual violence or collective rape? C, a physical manifestation of the village's collective superstition and fear, or D. A curse placed by a rival sorcerer to steal her village's gold.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Um, again, I think it was B.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Yeah, you think because you already took this.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

I have to say, as a side note to that um question and those responses, um, when Kiriku is going to meet and talk to his grandpa about the happenings in his current life and the things that he wants to do and all the questions that he has, he does ask his grandpa if he can give him a talisman to um help protect him or help him with um going to see the sorceress. And his grandpa says no, which I thought was really interesting. Um, just because I just thought it was really interesting because that's not the answer I would have expected. And in the relationship between the two, I mean his grandpa and this this grandkid, like I would have thought he would have been like, Oh yeah, let me give you this talisman to help you on your, you know, next step of your journey, next step of your life, and um, or what you want to do.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

And again, I mean I kind of felt like when I heard that, I'm like it's probably the influences of almost like it's like I'm not gonna give you a crutch. Yeah. You have to do you have to deal with the with the hard reality.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

Yep, yep. Agreed. Thank you for concluding that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Oslot's visual style for the film was influenced by which painter oh, you already know this, known for flag colors and detailed depictions of nature. Who was it?

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Henry Rousseau.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

I knew you got it.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

And then I think that's where I stopped. Because I had to know who he was, and I thought that was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Here's where the n here's where the rubber meets the road. Why did the film face significant distribution challenges in the UK and in the States? Okay, maybe. A distribution fears feared the film's anti-colonial colonialist message would be too controversial. B the film's pacing was considered too slow for Western children's attention spans. C, musical score lacked the broad pop appeal required for the global release, or D, portrayal of authentic West African nudity was deemed inappropriate for children, or E. Eddie Murphy did not want to make a guest spot.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

Is that really what it doesn't have to be? Yeah, that was great. Um D, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Portrayal of West African nudity was deemed inappropriate. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

But I could also see the music one.

SPEAKER_00 44:13

Yeah, yeah. Anglo Saxon distributors struggle with the non sexual nudity of the characters, even attempting to negate excuse me, negotiate for the addition of clothes in. The animation. In what way does Kiraku represent Western ideal within the film's thematic analysis of or Orientalism?

SPEAKER_01 44:37

This is some I didn't I didn't realize something I have to read about, but anyway, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Yeah, that like I did not take these things into consideration when we watched this movie. No. If I was asked to think this hard before I watched a French animation, I would have been out. I would have been out way earlier. He utilizes magical spells inherited from his European ancestors. B, he embodies rationality logic and inquiry against the superstition of the villagers. C, he travels to a distant urban center to receive his education, or D advocates for the industrialization of the village to stop the sorceress.

SPEAKER_01 45:18

What was the question again? Please.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

In what way does Kiraku represent Western ideal from the film's thematic analysis of Orient Orientalism? I think Orientalism is the belief in superstition.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Okay, yeah, I was actually Googling that as we were talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 45:35

Um I'm gonna go with B. Embodies rationality and logic. Okay. And inquiry against the super t superstition.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Yeah, okay, good, okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Article the article posits that Kiraku's reliance on logic and empirical questioning mirrors Western enlightenment ideals, contrasting with the irrational villagers. Which musical constraint did Michael Oselot Michelle Oselot impose on composer Yosu De Nur to maintain the narrative arc of the village men? The score could only consist of female vocalists until Kiraku became an adult. The use of stringed instruments as forbidden until the climax. No music was allowed during scenes featuring the Sorcerer's Caraba, or drums were restricted until the very end of the film. I do not know the answer to those.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

I think it's drums.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

They were waited until the end? Wow, you're batting a thousand.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Pay attention to the music.

SPEAKER_00 46:47

Since the men who typically play the drums were missing, Asalad insisted that drums only appear in the final celebratory sequence when the men return.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

What did you say? I was really on.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

I said you're batting a thousand.

SPEAKER_01 47:00

Oh thanks.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

How does Kiraku's birth demonstrate his role as a self-reliant hero? We both know the answer to this. He was born with a magical sword. That would have really been painful. That he uses to cut his umbilical cord and his grandfather Oh, that was something that happened though. It wasn't at birth, though. His grandfather performs a ritual that summons him from the spirit world. He waits for the village warriors to return upon return before choosing to enter the world, or D. He speaks from the womb and delivers himself after his mother encourages him to do so. That's right, buddy. Dialogue highlights that because we pointed this out at the beginning. He's like, What am I doing here? Let me out, I got shit to do. The fetishes, servants of Karaba, are eventually revealed to be what? We already answered this. The missing men of the village held under magical spell. Climax reveal- Oh, this is what I sorry everybody, I passed out like the last two minutes. The climax reveals that the men the villagers believed believed were eaten were actually being transformed into Karaba's various mechanical acting servants. Alright, this is the last one. For all the bacon, which I'm gonna eat. What role does the wise man of the mountain play in Kiriku's journey? He provides Kiraku with magical armor for his final battle? No. He explains the cause of Karaba's wickedness and offers guidance. He performs a ritual that instantly transformed Kira into adult? No. He is the true antagonist who manipulated Karaga Kur Karaba into attacking the village.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

I don't know. I lost um comprehension.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

B you should start drinking coffee. He explains the cause of Karaba's wickedness and offers guidance. That's right. Good job, me. By revealing the secret of the thorn, he empowers Kiraku to solve the problem through understanding rather than violence. If only things in life were that easy. Okay, I did ten out of ten. Big hand clap for me.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Excellent. A plus plus.

Final Takeaways And Who Should Watch

SPEAKER_00 49:19

So a lot of times it's tough for an animation to hold my attention, especially now as an adult. But when we're referred to an animation, a lot of these are this is this goes back to our personal temperaments, but I like watching movies like this that have and seeing an analysis of them. Because I did not like for it in this, for example, I did not realize that the men were the automatons or the fetishes.

SPEAKER_01 49:57

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

And I like particularly what this says about, and it says it in a very digestible way that when you when you treat women with violence, it has horrendous downstream effects. And that's a very intelligent, again, digestible and sensible way to deliver that message to a child in a medium that's meant for or was originally meant for kids. So again, I know I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but this harping on the idea that you shouldn't show nudity in a in an animation is such a Western just stupid nonsense way of analyzing a piece of art. I mean again, that's the other thing is art is there's nudity throughout art that's totally tasteful. Oh yeah. And to have this just sounds like every time I look I've looked at that three times, I'm like, this uptight fucking nerd who wrote this just does not understand the way that ideas are are transferred through art. I it's it's mind-numbingly dumb to me. I can't believe someone would write that. But uh worthwhile. Check it out. Uh Kiraku and the Sorceress.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

I agree. It was very um It was different, but I really liked it. I really liked it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

And um You have to find the things in animation that you fall in love with, and for you it was definitely the background art.

SPEAKER_01 51:41

Yeah, I loved it. And as Jay said, we found he found this on Instagram and was like, Louisa, look at this. You will love it.

Beet Salad Recipe With Honey

SPEAKER_00 51:48

Oh, before oh before I forget, I gotta I gotta give a uh recipe for what we made. Right?

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 51:56

The beat thing. I gotta find this here. So as always brought to you by Hey Honey.biz, my little honey outfit. Uh specialty honeys and uh single pollen honeys from around the world. Yesterday we made I gotta find this thing. We made a salad with honey and beets, arugula, walnuts. I gotta find where I put this thing.

SPEAKER_01 52:26

Ricotta and gorgonzola cheese and some orange zest. Oh, and some salt and pepper and thyme.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

So the we differed, we I pulled away a little bit from this recipe because we had packaged beets, we didn't use fresh beets, but it it still turned out fantastic. So you're gonna start out with two beets, tablespoon of olive oil, plus more for the stems, half teaspoon of salts, plus more for the stems, quarter teaspoon of pepper, one tablespoon of honey, preferably from hey honey dot biz, fresh thyme, four to six stems, but you can use what kind of we have like the it was a nice dry herb and a dry herb, yeah. So if you're making a crumble, so half a cup of toasted pecans, two ounces of gorgonzola, a handful of arugula, a teaspoon of orange zest. I used a lot more than that. Salt and pepper.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

Worth it to use a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

So you preheat your oven to 425, line a sheet pan with parchment paper, peel your beets, cut them into small chunks, little little chunks. We should have gone smaller. Reserve the stems and then chop the stems into tiny pieces, set them aside, and then add the beets to a bowl with oil, salt, pepper, and half of the honey you're gonna use. Toss and spread on the sheet, drizzle some more honey on the top of the beets, and and add time throughout. You're gonna throw in the oven for 30 to 35 minutes, halfway through, just like an air fryer, you're gonna toss it and move them around so they get uh they get blackened and charred a little bit on each side. Add the stems to the sheet pan, drizzle half a tablespoon of olive oil and season with some salt, roast for 15 minutes or until softened slightly. Again, we did not do this, and it still turned out fine. While everything roasts, you're gonna make the crumble, so you're gonna add the pecans to a cutting board, chop them up, and then add the cheese. What cheese is not the ricotta, the gorgonzola? Chop that, add the arugula, continue to chop everything together and add the orange zest, salt and pepper, and add to add the roasted beet stems until they're done. Again, we didn't add the stems. You're gonna toss together it until it's just a big messy crumble, and then spread ricotta onto a plate, top it with the beets, and then the cup uh crumble and drizzle honey onto it. It was a little bit of an undertaking, but how to turn out so good.

SPEAKER_01 55:18

It was worth all the detailed instructions that we followed.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

And I think a lot of these something I want to point out is whenever we leave a recipe that resonates with you, especially if it's involved, it's involved one maybe two times. And then you'll pick it up and it'll go like next time we make this, it'll go a lot faster.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

It will, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:44

I think that's the thing that's people's tendency when you f when you follow a recipe, you try to follow it to the T because you're not sure what step if you omit certain steps, how much it's gonna impact it, so you try to be as close to it as possible. And it's only after you make it that you realize we didn't have to do half that shit.

SPEAKER_03 56:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

So like the stem, I'm sure the stems would have added to it, but I don't want to well. I I could care less about now.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

It's kind of insignificant in detail to be honest. We had fresh we had thyme from a jar and it tasted just fine.

SPEAKER_00 56:14

No, but I'm talking about stems from the beets.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

Oh, sorry, thank you. But I gotcha. Even still, I don't thought our beets were fine. The beets we used.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:23

It was very good, very healthy, delicious. We had still eating it.

SPEAKER_00 56:28

I made way too much of the crumble. We're still eating it. So next movie we don't have.

SPEAKER_01 56:36

We do not. I do believe it's my pick, so I better get on that. It's gonna be a while.

Updates Birthday Wishes And Sign Off

SPEAKER_00 56:41

Good lord. Alright. I have uh nothing else for you because I haven't had dinner yet. So we're gonna chat more about some movie later. I'm gonna find something else for you to eat. Behave yourself. Do I have any other updates? Oh, markets starting in mid mid and southeast Michigan are starting up for me May 2nd, I believe. May 1st is my birthday, so if you're listening, I like things that are expensive and uh a surprise, and nothing that's gonna get me thrown into prison.

SPEAKER_01 57:17

So looking for a new car, people.

SPEAKER_00 57:20

I am so if anybody out there has a 1999 yellow mint condition lotus espree turbo, let me know. Hugs and kisses, vanity plate that says honeyguy or gross parts. That's a throwback to Grand Canyon. Hugs and kisses, we gotta go. Critique Opolis.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_00 57:42

Toodles.