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The Joosi Sex Podcast
Welcome to the Joosi Sex Podcast with me, Alisa Eddy. I'm the CEO of Joosi Sexual Wellness, and my friends and I discuss the intersection of sexuality and everything else that matters in life! Here at The Joosi Sex Podcast, we believe adult sexuality is a much more enjoyable adventure when approached with curiosity, playfulness, and always, enthusiastic consent.
The Joosi Sex Podcast
Drunk In Love: Substances & Seduction
What happens when you mix intimacy with psychedelics? Jess and I get personal and vulnerable as we recount our journeys navigating sex, substances, and consent. From the ethereal, boundary-melting experiences enhanced by psychedelics to the pitfalls of relying on alcohol for sexual encounters, we explore how these substances can transform or complicate our intimate lives. Through our own stories, we highlight how the dissolution of the ego can lead to profound connections but also stress the critical importance of trust and safety.
Our discussion takes a deep dive into the complexities of consent, particularly during adolescence and under the influence of substances. We share candid reflections on the struggles of growing up with religious backgrounds, the pressures to conform, and the misuse of substances like alcohol to manage these dynamics. Jess provides heartfelt insights into her early sexual experiences and how they shaped her understanding of validation and connection. We underscore the necessity of clear, enthusiastic consent and the continual practice of communicating boundaries to ensure mutual agreement.
Finally, we reflect on the empowering impact of sobriety on our sexual experiences. By embracing a sober lifestyle, we found deeper connections, clearer intentions, and the ability to genuinely tune into our desires. We discuss how setting boundaries and practicing body scanning have helped us engage in more intentional and mindful sexual encounters. Whether you're curious about the role of psychedelics in enhancing intimacy or seeking guidance on navigating consent and sobriety, our conversation offers a raw, honest exploration of the intimate and often unspoken aspects of sexual wellness.
For me with psychedelics, it's this like kind of magical, ethereal, otherworldly experience that you can share with somebody, where we can both be like knowing that, like your brain is creating whatever the hell images it is and mine is doing its thing, and like we'll be talking to each other while it's happening, like here's what I'm seeing, what are you seeing, and it's like, oh yeah, it's super interesting and really intimate because you're sharing whatever brain is manufacturing based on the psychedelics, which is really cool. So I think sex and psychedelics can be really intimate. I think I would not recommend it for people that you're not close to.
Speaker 3:I think it would be weird as fuck to feel that type of connection with somebody who I didn't feel safe with fuck to feel that type of connection with somebody who I didn't feel safe with yeah, oh, I could imagine that, because even just for me personally, doing psychedelics, you know just for fun, at a festival, or, you know, wanting to go deeper in my thoughts, or you know, on a camping trip with friends or whatever it may be, really takes me a lot to get to that point, just because of the vulnerability and how much it can crack you open, yes, and leave you, you know, open to these different energies. And so if you are with someone that you don't trust or has a certain energy that can kind of be encroaching on yours, it can turn your trip, you know, real bad, real quick For sure.
Speaker 3:So you know it's definitely yeah, making sure that you are in that safe space you are with. You know, for, I think, maybe less seasoned you know, people that you know have their, have their mechanisms and their plan in place for when they do drugs. But I just know, yeah for me, and it sounds like you personally that yeah, definitely, I think in a more intimate setting, I agree that it would have to be with someone that I'm, you know, super close with and you know, actually, was it last summer, did.
Speaker 3:I have this. Yeah, I think there was kind of a psychic, my one of my first psychedelic, like sexual experiences and I would say psychedelics in general sometimes can be a little a lot for me, just because, of how much they open and you know everything that's going on and just life and the world and like where's my mental space?
Speaker 3:and not knowing you know what's going to come up, and you know letting go and almost kind of changing that focus from in my head but to my body and the person's body, yeah, and like getting into that kind of cool weird space where you're just like melding and everything's melting and, like you know, the feelings are heightened and it's just like you kind of become this intertwined, just like magical goo of human awesomeness that you're feeling and experiencing. It can be amazing.
Speaker 1:Yes that's how I would describe it, almost yeah, yeah, it's almost like the psychedelics allow you to like. Drop the artifice of separateness.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, in this way, the ego, yes, the ego is gone and you're just like we are, two energetic beings exchanging and it becomes and I sound like a fucking hippie saying love it but it can become this really fucking cool experience where you're just like experiencing and experimenting with each other on this sort of like magical playground of whatever your brains are creating in that moment, and as long as you feel safe, it can be like a really fucking dope experience, yeah, and really beautiful.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Really beautiful. So I mean, if they're legal in your state. I encourage you to have sex on psychedelics with people who you feel really trusting with. Yeah, because I think you'll be like whoa, like we just like fucking melded, you know, and like it's so cool. Welcome to the Juicy Sex Podcast, where my friends and I have raw, unfiltered and hilarious conversations about all things sex. I'm Alisa Eddy, the founder and CEO of Juicy Sexual Wellness, where we try the toys and help you find the right one for you. Now on to the podcast. Welcome to the Sex and Substances episode of the podcast. Thank you so much. Yeah, welcome. I'm here with my guest, jess, and she is here to talk about sex and substances with us.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you so much for having me. There's a lot on this topic, so I'm excited to get into it.
Speaker 1:So much on this topic. I think that this is a profoundly unexplored topic, so I'm really excited to dive in with you. Great yeah, all right. So a little bit at the beginning here, let's talk about springtime in Seattle, which is where we are Gorgeous Finally, fucking gorgeous, absolutely, and I like how, like it's 71 degrees and people are tanning on their front lawns. I definitely was that person in my hammock the other day. Yes, nice, that's signature Seattle move. The tanning on the lawn move Like 60 degrees is like 80 here.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 1:It's true, it's so true, very true, all right. So as we talk about sex and substances, it's important to make it clear that this is a judgment-free zone, which means we're going to be real and honest about our relationships with sex and substances and how they have evolved. We are not here to be perfect for you. We are not going to pretend to be perfect. We don't want people to feel judged and we're not going to pretend all choices are equally healthy either. So just putting that out there for everybody listening. So just putting that out there for everybody listening, I think it's important to say we've probably made all the mistakes between the two of us.
Speaker 3:And then some yeah, and then some.
Speaker 1:So, no matter what your relationship between sex and substances is, you're not alone. You're in good company here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think it's important too, you know, having that we're coming from an open mind, we're being vulnerable, we're sharing stories, you know, that are very personal to us and you know I, just in my sharing of my stories, hope that you know it will create a sense that people can relate to and know that they're not alone. And if they feel some shame or guilt around it, you know that we're here, we've been there, we've seen it and we're just creating a safe space to talk about that Exactly.
Speaker 1:Perfect, yeah, so we're going to start at the beginning. A very good place to start. Yeah, so how did your relationship with sex and substances start?
Speaker 3:Ooh, that's a great question. Um, and I think it actually goes a little bit even before my relationship with substances. Um, because a lot of just my relationship with sex in general started at a very young age. Um, I was someone that was, uh, just very highly sexualized, you know, very early on, lost my virginity, I think at 14. And it was just something that I felt like I had control over my own body and using that to, almost, in a way, people please and fill a void and get that connection and get that reassurance that I was craving so much from, you know, early on experiences. And then I think it was about around 16. Funny enough, it was after a Bible camp. Sorry, mom, of course it's Bible camp.
Speaker 1:Sorry, mom.
Speaker 3:Of course it's Bible camp and I had just got my car for my 16th birthday. My parents actually surprised me with my green, my gosh what was it, I can't even remember Like 1991 green car and there was a small group of leadership and some of the camp counselors going over to this like house party once we all got back and you know I show up, there's some drinking. You know I have some few beers and you know I'm feeling a little tipsy and this one guy that I had a little bit of vibes with and on the camp trip does the classic, which I didn't know this at the time do you want to see the upstairs? Oh yeah, and my naive, childlike 16 year old mind, he was older, I think a few years older and I'm like, yeah, sure, let's go see the upstairs.
Speaker 3:And sure enough, um, yeah, you know, it starts with kissing, starts touching me, and I just remember, kind of in this drunk state, realizing, okay, this is the situation I'm in and kind of feeling powerless in a way. And just you know, okay, this is my situation now and I'm just gonna go with it and kind of see what happens. And so we end up having sex and I come downstairs and I just remember feeling you know kind of a lot of shame and guilt and embarrassment and you know everyone downstairs knew what was happening and I just felt you know kind of dumb. For I think taking the situation literal and having good intentions and I don't know after that, you know, and then plus kind of everything else just started, was kind of my catalyst for just you know, getting comfortable with, if I feel uncomfortable, using alcohol and substances to kind of go through situations where I might feel uncomfortable or not even sure what to do or what my voice or even stances in the moment.
Speaker 1:Yep, that makes a lot of sense to me. I know that my first several times hooking up with people I was pretty drunk. I know that most of those times I don't regret also yeah, personally I mean, some of them I do. But also I know that one thing that was hard for me, as I also, like I, was raised very religious I was raised in a Baptist home and one thing that was really hard for me was to say yes. Not just to say no, but to say yes, like yes, I do want this. I felt like I needed to be altered to say yes when I wanted it, because the grip that my religious upbringing had on me was so strong that it was hard to admit that I wanted things without. But at the time was alcohol was my primary yeah, my primary drug.
Speaker 3:I can definitely relate with that a lot, because I think a lot of times my default would just be yes, or there would be times where I may not say anything and just kind of give body language, and even saying nothing, people would take that as a a survival mode which is just like, ok, well, I'm not going to make a scene.
Speaker 1:You know, if they assume, yes, I'm going to just go with it. But this is where consent matters for everybody listening, and this is where it's a really great idea to teach all of your young people to ask each other before they start to engage in sexual activity, because sometimes it is a domino effect into parts of ourselves that we don't necessarily fully understand or have a lot of control over. So, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 3:And I actually like I didn't know you could have a choice. I mean I did, but I didn't know you could have a choice. I mean I did, but I didn't know how to have that choice or to speak on that choice, or even know what my truth was. It was almost like, ok, this is going to happen, I know it's going to happen. So, in a way, I would take my power back in. You know, sex is going to happen, I'm with this person, but now I'm going to control the situation. So now I'm going to do things to them.
Speaker 3:I would go into people pleasing mode. You know I wouldn't carry about or care about myself, and that was how I would almost, in a way, try to take control and power back in. That is like, okay, I'm going to be the sexual dominant force. Then yeah, and that's my way of kind of having my yes or you know say in the matter until yeah, you know, realizing that that's maybe not always what I wanted in that moment. And yeah, especially with, like, the consent piece, I was always focused on the other person and I don't want to embarrass them or am I performing right? Or, you know, like I don't want to make them feel uncomfortable or bad. So I would always end up sacrificing my wants and my needs in that situation.
Speaker 3:You know, even when it comes to orgasming, if, like, the guy doesn't like going down on a girl, I'd be like, oh, that's okay, you know, let me go down on you and just completely being not connected to my body or anything in that, and alcohol for a very big portion of my life was a way to, I think, kind of put those thoughts aside and just be more in the moment, in a way, and be able to focus on that other person, whether I wanted to be with them or not, and, yeah, just kind of dive in and not feel myself and just kind of let whatever happens happens and kind of just numb out. I think really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense to me. I know that the idea of saying yes was really tricky and I also know it took me a long time to figure out how to say no, and while I was kind of like, um, I've always been someone that sort of intimidated people like to some degree, even since I was a kid. Really, yeah, it was just funny. Yeah, I know they think I'm so nice, but you're like the sweetest person I know. I mean, hey, thanks.
Speaker 3:I like to think that you're tall, gorgeous and extremely intelligent.
Speaker 1:So I can see oh, thank you very much, yeah, but so I, you know, felt like I didn't really know. Once somebody got to a certain point with me of getting started like a certain level of physical intimacy, I didn't really know how to stop it. And I kind of felt like, okay, well, now they've put their arm around me, now they've started kissing me and now I'm kind of stuck Was sort of how I felt, and that was in the case of pretty much almost always being drunk in those situations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, which is. You know not how I like to play it nowadays, but it was how it started.
Speaker 3:Yeah, unfortunately, you know, and I think we both can relate, and having to go through those experiences and those emotions and those feelings to kind of figure out what we want and what we can say, and I don't know how many times yeah, I would almost get into like this kind of fight or flight numb phase and things would and I just kind of let things happen to me and things would and I just kind of let things happen to me and I'd be like I don't know how to stop this. I know it's happening. Or you know, even there was one time, um, you know, after during college, coming down to the clubs, um, and you know, go into an after party somewhere in Seattle and you know we're drinking probably a little bit of Molly, and you know, lying on the couch next to someone trying to sleep and I just feel, you know, like a hand go under my skirt and I just kind of freeze and you know I don't even have a moment to even think is this what I want?
Speaker 3:Is this what I want to do? Everyone's kind of asleep. I don't want to ruin the vibe or make a scene and you know, just feeling really awkward and trying everything I can to kind of like hide it in a way, but like totally not thinking about myself or like what I want or what I need in that moment, and just kind of how can I just make the situation? Just chill and kind of hide and go away?
Speaker 1:I very much relate to that as well.
Speaker 3:I think for me it was kind of a trauma response that was this compliance response from other times in my life that, especially once alcohol got added, it became extra hard to figure out what I truly wanted in that moment and it became very tricky, became very tricky. Um for sure, yeah, so I understand that. Yeah, and I remember, you know, in college I think 90% of my I mean I had good sex, like I definitely had sober sex, of course you know what I mean. I thought I was this very an M, you know, kind of with the right people and that I can be vulnerable. And you know I had a long-term boyfriend in college for the first couple of years and you know I mean fucked like rabbits. It was great. You know, I mean most of that was sober.
Speaker 3:But then there was kind of a period where, after a pretty traumatic event that I went through, I just had no. It turned into self-loathing and self-hatred and just being careless with myself and my body, and you know going to parties and getting blackout drunk and waking up in beds that I don't even remember. You know waking up in a house and you know, like no clothes on and having no recollection of the moment or even how I got up to that point and it became kind of a regular occurrence and just, I mean, I almost felt like I had a death wish and I did not care what happened to my body and in some ways it became kind of this empowering. Oh, you know, I'm this sexual force and trying to fill a void and almost, you know, in my own way, trying to control, you know, men and seducing this.
Speaker 3:But it was also I was feeling, I think, you know, almost imprisoned by my own triggers and that this is who I'm supposed to be, this is how my life is supposed to be. You know, this is who I've been told I am from a very young age and being that kind of highly sexualized person, and you know, I'm just like this is my life and you know, I didn't even know that you could have, you know, these amazing euphoric, amazing, you know sex and it's just like, is this kind of what? It is? All right, I guess. You know, yeah, this is where I'm at and yeah, just throwing myself kind of in any situation to numb out, and yeah, I don't know, just to forget, you know, things that happened at a really young age and it was the only thing I felt like I had control over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I think that this is where the practice of consent which I'm going to get a little bit on a soapbox comes in, really huge For people who have sexual trauma. And you don't know if you're at a party and one of us is one of the people that you're going to try and initiate things with. We may or may not be, but when you start touching us without asking, you can engage a compliance response. That is not about our desire to do something with you. It is about our desire to survive.
Speaker 1:The situation at sort of like our amygdala is taking over and it's a completely different thing. And it took me years of having hookups with people where some of them I wanted and I would like and I'd have some regret and weird feelings about because of my upbringing, but sometimes I'd be like why did I do that? I didn't want to do that. I never wanted it, I didn't want it the whole time, but I never said no because I felt like the safest thing to do is to just go along with it.
Speaker 1:So when people get weird about asking for consent to kiss someone or asking for consent to put your arm around somebody, these are the reasons why you do that? Because you can unknowingly trigger someone into disassociation, into a compliance response, which almost certainly is not your intent as the initiator. But if you don't directly ask, pause the action. Directly ask, that's what can happen, and then that person is left with a lot of regret and shame because they weren't in control and and and the person who's initiating might have thought they were, but they weren't, and this is why consent is so fucking important, Yep.
Speaker 3:I 100% agree with that and I think that's a really good point in terms of, yeah, it can be something as simple as putting a hand on the leg and you know, I would say 90% of the time there's no ill intent. But just having that extra step of hey, is this okay? Yes, at least allows the person to stop and think and be like, hmm, is this what I want? Because once you kind of go into that violating territory and I know for myself, you know, depending on the situation and where my headspace is at, can really go into that freeze, yes and numbness and out of body experience, and then just kind of letting it happen, which then can signal, you know, oh, other things might be OK.
Speaker 3:And you know, and then completely almost losing the ability to be able to speak up for myself in that it's. I mean, I'm still kind of struggling with that and it's taken me years to be able to practice that no, or even just language of. You know, maybe not right now or I'm just, I'm not feeling it and you know, not trying to take on the other person's feelings of, oh well, if I say no, they're going to feel rejected and this and that. So consent, especially in a party setting, can be very tricky Because, you know, especially in like our lifestyle community, you know it's something that we heavily talk about before every party.
Speaker 3:You know there's the consent rules and you know usually a person in place that you can come and talk to if you see any behavior. But even in that sometimes there's kind of this false sense of consent where you know, are you even in the headspace to be able to say yes or no? Or you know kind of own your actions and behavior, especially if you're on substances or Molly or other drugs or whatever. And yeah, it can get really tricky, especially for the other person to feel that out because they don't know you, they're not in your head. And I would say my you know rule of thumb if you're having a body reaction or it's not a fuck yes, right away, just don't even do it, it's a fuck no yep, it's not a fuck.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's a fuck no exactly absolutely yes, but that's really hard to get to the point where you can take ownership of that for yourself. Um and I think it's an area where people who tend to pursue more sexually can do a lot of work is to say, if what I'm not seeing from somebody, if I'm not seeing a fuck yes, which is enthusiastic, informed participation anything short of that is a question mark, yep, and is not sufficient. Yeah. So I'm really glad that came up because that's a that's. That's been a big journey for me and I feel like I've gone for me in my personal journey. I've gone through to the point of all the no's and figured out the no and now I'm back at the point of like having trouble saying yes because I'm such an automatic no.
Speaker 3:You kind of went on the other end of the spectrum. I did. Yeah, I totally relate with that.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, but wait, but I actually wanted to do that. Fuck, what did I just say no to Damn it. You know which I mean? I would err on the side of no anyways. Yeah, but it's tricky and it takes a while to learn yourself, so. So this is where interrupting. A lot of people have this feeling that asking for consent is ruining the moment. But the ruining of the moment is really just interrupting that domino, that cascade that takes people out of agency. And so when you say I'm going to interrupt this moment very intentionally to say, do you want to do this with me here now? If the answer is yes, then we can re-engage, but if not, super easy to walk away, yep.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, I agree, I mean I've seen, actually, you know, I mean I've seen it kind of done in the right way and I mean, is there even a right way or the wrong way? I mean the wrong way is no consent at all, but you know, I've luckily, you know, had friends come up or you know, if they see I'm a little intoxicated, just like checking in, hey, are you okay? You know, and sometimes having a person that you trust, that knows you really well, yeah, and just like where are you at right now, you know, and even taking that again time for yourself and in my I would say, substances journey, I would say substances journey I did not have that time at all. I mean substances were allowing me to just say yes all the time in times that I didn't want to say yes. And it wasn't until 2018 when I went sober from alcohol the first time for about three years.
Speaker 3:And you know, being in the lifestyle community about 10 years ago was a really kind of healing and eye-opening experience for the first few years in terms of always kind of feeling like I was this sexual being and but feeling guilty or shamed about it. You know, being teased in school or being called a slut or this and that. But I always had this feeling that like no, it's my body, it's my choice and I enjoyed it. And so, going into this community, it was just like wow, I can finally be open, I can feel free with no judgment and, you know, really leaned in hard, I can feel free with no judgment and, you know, really leaned in hard, and it was amazing to find other like-minded individuals. But, just like any other community, there's a lot attached to that and so, you know, with parties every weekend and drinking and substances, and I was finding myself kind of getting back into that mode of, you know, being intoxicated every time I have sex at parties and it was just kind of leaving me feeling empty and almost kind of feeling like an object, like the shiny new toy you know in this community and just, you know, being passed around. And it wasn't always negative. You know, I had some really good experiences and oh, wow, people can do this and people can do and my body can do that. This is great, you know, kind of unlocking all these new kinks.
Speaker 3:But it wasn't until I went sober that my relationship with sex I found had changed and I remember, you know, talking with my therapist and going to these parties and having no interest in wanting to hook up and kind of almost going like you were talking about that pendulum on this opposite end of just being so I wouldn't say like turned off, but just like not knowing what I want. It was the first time being sober in my life and I was rediscovering my relationship with sex and what that means, what that means, and she had said something around. Well, you know, maybe you're learning, you're not actually that person that you've kind of put on, this persona that you want to be. And now it's your first time being able to be empowered and not be intoxicated, sit with your body, see how you feel and really check in.
Speaker 3:And so for the first couple of years, like I, you know, I'd have maybe sex here and there, but I was so picky, you know I'd go to these parties and it was more about connection and, you know, deep conversations and it really I found out it took me a lot to be able to actually have sex with someone when I was sober and it wasn't that I was a, not a sexual being, when I feel comfortable, supported and secure, extremely, you know everything's on the table Um, but I just it was realizing that I was putting myself in these situations that weren't giving me that, and I was using drugs and alcohol to um to think that I was okay with those things, and so it was a really transformative experience. Um, it was probably the first period in my life where, you know, I wasn't having a lot of sex and the sex I was having.
Speaker 3:You know, my first couple sober sex experiences were a little awkward and, you know, kind of shy and like do I even know what I'm doing? Most of the time would be pretty supportive or they'd be like, oh wow, I normally have a drink or two to kind of you know. But ended up creating a lot of deeper connections and experiences in terms of, yes, I'd like to do that again or no, I don't, and building that kind of toolbox and language to be able to say that because I knew it's what I really wanted. There was no alcohol or drugs to cloud my mind. I knew deep inside that is what I want or no, that's not what I want.
Speaker 3:And it was a very transformative time for me.
Speaker 1:That is, that's important, that's huge, and I think there are so many people who are like in their forties, right now, today, who still aren't sure what they want if they're not drunk, I think alcohol. Alcohol is the most common substance that people use for sex, and I think that that is such a hugely awesome learning curve to have under your belt, of like engaging this process through sobriety and and really discerning what's happening at the center of me. Do I want this or do I not want this?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, and I even had it allowed me to a lot of reflection on, like past relationships. And there was one relationship I had where I didn't realize I've to have sex, like I was dating them, I needed alcohol Like I would say, almost 95% of our sexual experiences I was drinking just to be able to have sex with this person and I'm like that's horrible, that's not the kind of life or relationships I want. And so, you know, being sober, I definitely kind of went on like I don't want to say like scared of sex, but kind of because a lot of my experiences were just so careless and not what I wanted.
Speaker 3:And so it really took me a long time to kind of find my voice within that. And once I, you know, just like anything, you keep practicing it right. You know you keep baby steps. Anything, you keep practicing it right. You know you keep baby steps. And it got actually really exciting to a point when I did want to share that with someone, or my intentions.
Speaker 3:Going to parties, you know, sober would be like okay, tonight I'm feeling a little frisky, Like I am taking ownership of my feelings. Right, this is what I want, you know, if it doesn't happen, great. But like I am totally okay with what happens tonight because I am choosing that and I'm 100% confident in my ability and decision. Because I'm sober, I'm in tune with my body, I know how I feel and I've been practicing saying no and of course there, you know, are still moments where I'd be like, you know someone comes up and be like can I kiss you? And I'm like, uh, and even if it's taking me that long to say, uh, okay, I've learned, Then, no, it's not a fuck, yes.
Speaker 1:Exactly. If it's not a fuck yes, it's a no yeah.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's been a really interesting journey in that and you know, and of course now you know, okay, sober from alcohol, but you know I'd still use like Molly and other things like that, and I think those substances were different for me in terms of almost alcohol would allow me to leave my body and be numb and not feel and be focused on the other person and just kind of, you know, numb out and just disassociate from the situation. And you know, molly, or things like that would be a very internal how is my body feeling?
Speaker 3:You know, what do I like, these touches like this and that, and so you know sometimes, and I think too at least, the way it works with my brain. You know, it heightens emotions, it heightens feelings, it heightens the euphoria and experience. But it wouldn't cloud myself in a way where I could still have some sort of judgment in terms of yes, this is what I want, or no, it's not what I want.
Speaker 3:You know I wouldn't use it to put myself in situations I didn't want. I would use it to explore in situations I do want.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you a story. I was really excited to buy a new clit-sucking toy. So I went to the world's largest online sex toy retailer and I found hundreds of options with no indication which ones are quality and which ones are right for me. So I had to make my best guess. I ordered the toy, got it in the mail, super excited to try it, and bummer, it's way too strong, even on the lowest setting, turns out. I can't even use it and I wasted 80 bucks. So I throw it in my nightstand and a couple months later I look to discover mad.
Speaker 1:I decided to start my own sex toy company, juicy. At Juicy, we sell a highly curated selection of body safe sex toys and we test them so that we can give you all the deets about whether or not it's right for you, such as how strong or gentle it is, how loud is it and how easy is it to operate. So support this podcast and buy your next sex toy at GetJuicycom. That's G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom, getjuicycom, g-e-t-j-o-o-s-icom. Yes, which is where is the other side? I think and I mean I'm not speaking for everybody, but I also relate to that sense of alcohol being sort of a terrible sex drug. Out of all the things you can choose. Alcohol definitely for me and my experience, and it sounds like for you in your experience acts to interfere between me and myself a bit, which is different than something that heightens the experience, right. So some substances are very much heightening. You have psychedelics that are super heightening.
Speaker 1:You have other types of drugs that can be very heightening, and then you have alcohol, which is sort of deadening and I think it's yeah, I agree, I concur, I think that that is a big shift that I have experienced in terms of having used way less alcohol now in this chapter of my adulthood than I did when I was younger, and being like I haven't hooked up with someone and regretted it in years and years and years now, but I no longer get really drunk in order to do that. That's great.
Speaker 3:And if there are substances on board.
Speaker 1:There are other ones that are things where I'm looking for like a great experience and I want to heighten it, you know, which is a really different thing. I would say so for me the first time. I didn't realize this until it happened, so I feel kind of horrible even saying it. But the first time I had sober sex was with my ex-husband.
Speaker 1:The first time that we had sex with my ex-husband, the first time that we had sex, and I intentionally waited like four or five weeks with him, because I knew I had this pattern at the time of rushing into sex and then avoiding somebody and I really liked this guy and I didn't want to do that. So I was like we're going to do everything but sex as long as I can possibly hold out, and that's what we did. And then I had sober sex for the first time and it was really interesting because, yes, I was more nervous, but it was also so much more pleasurable because I could feel my body and I had an orgasm and I, like you know, we're so often drunk sex doesn't result in orgasms. Nope.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it doesn't result for me, yeah.
Speaker 1:Not for me, and it doesn't result in you feeling yourself in the same way, and I was like wow, so this is like what everybody else has been doing the whole time. This is pretty cool, oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah. And I think it was interesting because for the first few years, my ex and I had sober sex all the time and then, later on, when sex became really infrequent, we got back into that pattern where we would be drunk to have sex.
Speaker 3:Using the substances to kind of get there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we had, our familiarity with each other was decreased because we weren't having sex as often, and so our comfort with each other was decreased. Because we weren't having sex as often, and so our comfort with each other was decreased. Because we weren't having sex as often and so to get over that, we were using alcohol, and unfortunately, what that meant was the sex wasn't as good when we would have it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can totally relate to that in a few relationships I had where, yeah, just kind of the is it the fast burn? You know you have the slow burn, but then it's just like hot and heavy in the beginning and you know you can't wait to just rip each other's clothes off and it would mainly be sober. And then it would come to a point where, yeah, you know, issues getting in the way, kind of lack of connection, you know the relationship kind of taking a turning point and almost being like scared on how to initiate, like how you know, can I touch you? Do you like that? Like you know, almost I would get so in my head of like I don't want to do anything wrong, or that rejection, and sometimes for me the alcohol would take away the fear of rejection Definitely and would just allow me to.
Speaker 3:Just well, I'm going to do this anyway because you know I have the liquid courage and the confidence, yeah, the impetuousness of alcohol, yeah, versus being sober and kind of insecure and anxious and unsure and being in the other person's head and not knowing what's going on. It would kind of take that layer away. But then also it kind of distracts them from the issues that are going on. It's like, ok, you can have alcohol and OK, I'm being all you know confident and want to get in this and we're doing it. But it's also like, is that the right thing we should be doing? Is that the way to bridge that? You know like, yeah, it kind of distracts from the real problem at hand. I feel like, or it can, it can.
Speaker 1:For sure I think like. So why do we use substances for sex? There's obvious reasons.
Speaker 1:There's obvious benefits because life is fucking hard and we want to let go of the stress right, Like we want to stop the fucking train in our head that's like chugga chugga, chugga, chugga through, like all of our problems and all that shit. We want to stop that which makes sense, we want to lose our inhibitions and we want to lose. I think this is where I suspect this is probably the biggest draw to sex on alcohol is the loss of self-consciousness, that sense of like questioning everything that you do, looking at yourself from the outside, all of that, and that alcohol kind of has a way of turning that off. Unfortunately, it turns other things off too, but it does that and I think that's why so often date night includes a bunch of drinks.
Speaker 1:For couples even people who've been married for 20 years. You know date night includes a bunch of drinks. Yeah, because this crippling self-consciousness that we develop can come out and like stop us before we even get started.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I totally understand that and can relate with that as well. You know, as someone that has just chronic anxiety and I live in my head all the time, sometimes it's just nice to have that drink. You know, that can feel like just a breath of fresh air.
Speaker 3:You know, I can just be in the moment and not living in my head and questioning every little thought, especially, you know, at parties or even on, you know, dates or being with someone for the first time.
Speaker 3:It's just like that constant voice never stops.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, having a few drinks, you know, you kind of loosen up, let your hair down a bit and then you know you can kind of go in that direction, not needing a crutch to get to that point and trying to train and learn and be with myself enough that I didn't need a drink to like, turn off and take a breath, and at least for me, you know, coming from a long line of alcoholics and having my own issues with alcohol, hence why I went sober, you know I didn't have that choice anymore. I had nothing, I couldn't turn to anything, and so I had to learn to just sit and be like, okay, I'm feeling anxious, that's okay. I'm feeling awkward and uncomfortable, that's okay. Can I get to a place of having sex with this person? I could Do. I want that, I don't know. So you know it's just kind of having those conversations with yourself and being okay. I think in learning how to be be OK and uncomfortable and not needing the crutch and that's not, you know, the way for everyone.
Speaker 3:Like I have some friends that can have a drink or two and they're totally fine and turn it off and go home. You know they can have a glass of wine at the end of the day. That is great. I, unfortunately, am not that person and it's taken me years to be able to accept that and it has, you know, hindered and affected a lot of my sex life and just my relationships with people in general. Yeah, but you know I've also found within that, trying to kind of manage myself with alcohol, turning that also to drugs and using substances with sex and using it in a way to enhance but not distract, yes, and to help create that experience and that connection and you know it was kind of getting to that higher level with a person and, yeah, creating more of, I think, an experience with someone versus, you know that, uncomfortable, you know, distraction, needing to disassociate, turning off my head piece.
Speaker 1:It's sort of tolerating versus something else. Yeah, I'm not sure what the other end of the spectrum is, yep, but I do think with alcohol, sometimes what it's doing is it's letting you tolerate as opposed to like, really savor and enjoy. Yes, you know, yeah, so I I definitely relate to that for sure. I think um I've had experiences with sex and psychedelics specifically can be super fucking fun it. It can be like ultimate crazy, weird, fucking awesome sex for me.
Speaker 3:Love it, love it. I'm here for it.
Speaker 1:And I think it's because, for me, the times that I've had sex on psychedelics it's been with someone who I really trust or people, multiple people, who I really trust, yeah, and because when you're in the space, the mental space that psychedelics create is not necessarily conducive to like stranger danger.
Speaker 1:So it's not the same as alcohol thing, but for me, with psychedelics, it's this like kind of magical, ethereal, otherworldly experience that you can share with somebody, where we can both be like knowing that like your brain is creating whatever the hell images it is and mine is doing its thing, and like we'll be talking to each other while it's happening, like here's what I'm seeing, what are you seeing, you know, and it's like, oh yeah, it's super interesting and really intimate because you're sharing whatever you know your brain is manufacturing based on the psychedelics, which is really cool. So I think sex and psychedelics can be really intimate. I think I would not recommend it for people that you're not close to. I think it would be weird as fuck to feel that type of connection with somebody who I didn't feel safe with.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 3:I could imagine that Because even just for me personally doing psychedelics, For me personally doing psychedelics, you know, just for fun, at a festival, or you know, wanting to go deeper in my thoughts, or you know, on a camping trip with friends or whatever it may be, really takes me a lot to get to that point, just because of the vulnerability and how much it can crack you open, yes, and leave you. You know open to these different energies. You know open to these different energies and so if you are with someone that you don't trust or has a certain energy that can kind of be encroaching on yours, it can turn your trip, you know, real bad, real quick.
Speaker 3:For sure, so you know it's definitely, yeah, making sure that you are in that safe space you are with. You know, for, I think, maybe less seasoned, you know people that you know have their, have their mechanisms and their plan in place for when they do drugs. But I just know, yeah for me, and it sounds like you personally that yeah, definitely. I think in a more intimate setting I agree that it would have to be with someone that I'm, you know, super close with and you know, actually, was it last summer, did I have this?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think there was kind of a psychic, my one of my first psychedelic. Like sexual experiences and I would say psychedelics in general sometimes can be a little a lot for me, just because of how much they open and you know everything that's going on and just life and the world and like where's my mental space and not knowing you know what's going to come up, know what's going to come up and you know letting go and almost kind of changing that focus from in my head but to my body and the person's body, yeah, and like getting into that kind of cool, weird space where you're just like melding and everything's melting and, like you know, the feelings are heightened and it's just like you, kind of become this intertwined, just like magical goo of human awesomeness that you're feeling and experiencing it can be amazing.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:And very spiritual, almost. It's almost like the psychedelics allow you to like. Drop the artifice of separateness.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, in this way, the ego, yes, the ego is gone and you're just like we are, two energetic beings exchanging, and it becomes, and I sound like a fucking hippie saying this Love it beings exchanging.
Speaker 1:And it becomes and I sound like a fucking hippie saying love it but it can become this really fucking cool experience where you're just like experiencing and experimenting with each other on this sort of like magical playground of whatever your brains are creating in that moment and as long as you feel safe, it can be like it like a really fucking dope experience, yeah, and really beautiful. Yeah, really beautiful. So I mean, if they're legal in your state, I encourage you to have sex on psychedelics with people who you feel really trusting with. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I think you'll be like whoa, like we just like fucking melded, you know, and like it's so cool and you can learn a lot about yourself too, and I think it allows your brain to open up in a way and even create a vulnerability with yourself, like I've even known.
Speaker 3:You know playing with my own self on, you know psychedelics or Molly or just drugs that you know kind of create a more heightened euphoric um, you know kind of comfortable feeling where I've been able to even go deeper with myself and heal kind of my own body in ways of bridging that connection, because I used to be very distance from my body and you know, like love, having sex don't care who's in me or whatever, at a period of my time, but like touching myself, feeling myself. I was so almost like scared to do.
Speaker 3:And it was a vulnerability I didn't really feel comfortable with, yeah, and you know I knew the quick things to get an orgasm, but like I didn't really take the time to kind of just play with myself, love myself, you know like, and figure out how I like to be touched, how I like to be you know anything happening to me and so, yeah, I think you know, especially with kind of where the medical field is going and psychedelics, and even you know microdose therapy.
Speaker 3:I think you know in the right circumstances and definitely doing your research and knowing where your drugs come from.
Speaker 1:Test your drugs. Please, definitely, please, yes.
Speaker 3:Can be a really beautiful experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, agreed, I agreed. I think it does. It is sort of that ego death thing, and not just between you and another person, but between you and yourself too, and I think it can be like really magical and interesting thing. But I would say like there's interesting. So there's thoughts around the world about whether or not someone can consent if they're on a substance. Of course, this depends on everything like all the variables. Uh, I think let's let's take a minute to talk about how we know if we are ready to give consent when we're on substances.
Speaker 1:Great california has some interesting sexual consent laws which are sort of um birthed out of the number of universities that they have there and how much sexual misconduct and sexual assault is an issue on college campus, and so they came up with their own framework around sexual consent, which is very nuanced and very interesting, and it has to do with consent and intoxication in part. And so the law in the state of California is when a person is intoxicated to the point where they cannot understand the nature of the act or give legal consent which they don't define, any sexual activity with that person may be considered rape under California law. So this is an interesting point because I think on its head. I like this. I think that this removes ambiguity. It says if somebody is losing consciousness at any point, if someone is drunk to the point of, or high to the point of, not understanding what's going on around them, that that is not consent and that consent cannot be garnered in that circumstance.
Speaker 3:Absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, stance. Um, absolutely, yeah, yeah, and so I think it's an interesting thing because this is actually unique to california. This is not typically the law in most states.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah, and so it is something where let me find the little spot where they define, which makes sense, because I mean we see it in the news all the time of court cases and oh well, she said yes or this and that, and so yeah, it gets. It can get really tricky.
Speaker 1:And what I think they do a really good job of is getting rid of that whole. She didn't say no means it's not rape. Every woman I know has been in situations where they couldn't say no. But if something were to proceed, or if something did proceed, it would have been or was rape, and I think that's actually some brilliance behind it. This could deprive women of sexual agency in terms of being on substances and consenting to sexual activity. And although you know it sounds like the law gets more specific than I initially thought that it did, what I really like about the law is this California law is clear that consent must be ongoing, enthusiastic and informed. It cannot be obtained through force, threats or manipulation. Consent is a voluntary, affirmative agreement to engage in sexual activity and I think that ongoing, enthusiastic and informed yes, those are very important keywords.
Speaker 1:Huge, like huge, huge Like that's the yes means yes school of thought, right? Yep, yeah, so I know that I like to engage in substance use. I think that it's fun, it enhances my life in a lot of ways, I enjoy it and sometimes it really enhances my sex life, and I know that if I am enthusiastic and informed and I am ongoingly consenting that it is something I want to do. I've never had a situation that met that criteria, in which afterward I felt like I was violated. Yep, but yeah. So I guess I'm just curious what your thoughts are on that.
Speaker 3:No, I think I mean yeah, those words I think are, as you said, huge and I think brings up a really good point when you are engaging with someone or anyone you know, in sexual acts, on substances, to continuously check in, yes, and because anything can change, you know, especially if someone could be a little bit sober. Maybe you take some drugs or drinking at the beginning of the act and that can always change. And I think it's also important that saying yes once doesn't mean yes always. And so having that continuous check in and just like you know, is this OK, how are you feeling?
Speaker 3:You know, reading body language, keeping that open communication and dialogue, and if it does get to a point where whoever you are with stops answering or isn't able to, or just the situation changes, or even you're not even able to, you know, to have a safe word or stop it, or you know kind of just check in and be like, okay, you know might have to stop this right now or take a beat or take a break or whatever. You need to not get yourself into a space where it was yes in the beginning and then maybe somewhere it got a little muddled, maybe, you know, the person got a little too high and then maybe somewhere it got a little muddled, maybe, you know, the person got a little too high and then afterwards they're remembering that high piece and they're like, oh, I don't remember what happened, and then that can create that confusion and did that person take advantage when?
Speaker 3:no, you know, there was clear consent in the beginning, but something changed. You know throughout, yes, that situation for sure, which is where.
Speaker 1:So I'm a big believer in consent before any escalation. So if you're going to go from first base to second base, second base to third base, third base to home run, you need to be getting consent at each fucking step, and it's a little controversial because there are a lot of people who are uncomfortable with being asked, and I personally feel like, generally speaking, those people need to grow up.
Speaker 3:Yes, I was going to say I have some thoughts on that. Yeah, consent is sexy and also like it's again, it's like anything Right If you're not practiced or have spoken that way enough to where you have the language and a way of speaking about it. It doesn't have to be this direct no, I don't like this, or yes, I like this. You know, it's all about just the energy, the feeling it in the moment. Like you know, even before I go down on someone, I'm like, hey, is this okay? You know you don't have to be like can I suck your dick now please? Yeah, exactly, can I now insert my penis in your vagina?
Speaker 1:you know, like there's a way you can do it.
Speaker 3:That makes it sexy and a little comfortable for both. And also it is okay to do it in an awkward way, cause I know the first couple of times when I was kind of building that language and learning how to say no, I felt like I was coming off like such an asshole because, I would just get so anxious where I just be like, no, I'm okay.
Speaker 3:And then I would just be like, oh, you know, feeling like it came off so direct and so harsh, and they're just like, oh, it's fine. But also, you know, I think to create a safe community, it's being OK with hearing no, yes, and also you have a responsibility as the person that's asking, being open to any answer. You receive Any answer.
Speaker 3:And having to be OK with that and not throwing it back at that person. And having to be okay with that and not throwing it back at that person, or even if it does hurt your ego a little bit or you know you're feeling uncomfortable with it or it might create an uncomfortable vibe, putting yourself in that situation, you're already kind of signing up for that responsibility and for that to possibly be a scenario or an outcome, totally yeah, and if you're not okay with that, then you probably shouldn't be putting yourself in those positions to begin with. It's true.
Speaker 1:And that, I think, is the part that perturbs me a little bit. I think you have to be able to say no before you can say yes, able to say no before you can say yes, and in order to have, it's so much more important that someone's not violated than it is important that you don't feel uncomfortable. Your discomfort with being asked a question that you're afraid to say yes to or no to, is lower on the priority pole than someone not being violated. Yes.
Speaker 1:And so I think that it's sort of time to put on your big human panties, whichever direction they go, and understand that that's sort of a necessity of playing the game of having sex with people I know my partner has. His firm belief is if it's not a fuck, yes, it's a fuck, no. And I have seen many times when he has asked or proposed something with somebody and they've been like oh yeah, sure, and he's like that's not a fuck. Yes, he's like never mind, let's not, let's do something else, let's just hang out. You know, I appreciate that so much. Yeah, and like for, for him it's like a really important thing, and I think it should be important for everybody to say if, if I didn't get a fuck, yes, then we're just not going to go forward with it yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:and I think too, like you know, just kind of in our, our community and you know, getting comfortable having, I think, just those types of conversations and, um, being able to, you know just as comfortably saying no but being able to hear no, yes, and like I've actually, you know.
Speaker 3:You know I mean as a female, you know I know there's like sometimes a lot of males and others out there that are like, oh, it's so much easier for you know female to go to a party and you don't have to deal with that kind of language. And you know I mean I can, I've seen it, I can understand. You know, for you know males and others in that you know kind of space and environment, that it is really tricky and they feel like they're kind of putting themselves out there and they're, you know, kind of holding, you know being upheld to, having to hold this responsibility and and whatnot, and so, yeah, it can just it can be really tricky but I think just being open and honest and, um, yeah, I think, just taking that responsibility for the situations you're putting yourself in and, yeah, and I think, checking in with yourself, you know, if you go to an event and you're not okay with the possibility there could be a no, or you're going in with an intention of needing or looking for something.
Speaker 1:you should probably check yourself first, you know, before putting yourself in that For sure and, I think, being prepared to check in with yourself about if it's a yes or a no, and I had to learn to do this. I was just a normal person living in society before I started going to things like sex parties and stuff like that, and what I learned was I had to take a moment, and so my first response is whatever is socially appropriate in the moment.
Speaker 1:I figured that out about myself first response is whatever is socially appropriate in the moment. I figured that out about myself and I was kind of bummed out because I was like I think that I'm this badass chick, but yet there's this people pleaser inside of me in these moments that when someone asks if I want to do something, if I think they want to or if I think it'll make other people happy, there's some part of me that wants to just say, yes, you sacrifice a bit of yourself for their happiness.
Speaker 1:Totally, and I was like, fuck man, I have that too. God damn it. God fucking damn it. I thought I was more badass than that. I mean, you're pretty damn badass, but like it took me a while to figure out, like, for me personally, what I do is, now that I've had more experience, if someone proposes something to me sexually, I literally stop everything and I kind of close my eyes for a second and I ask myself the question and I ask what I'm looking for is is my body going toward this person or away from them? Oh, I love that, yes, yes, is that toward or?
Speaker 1:away in response to the thing, and if it's toward, then I then I might just be like yes, if it's away, then it's a big no. But like I had to learn to like be comfortable pausing the action, making everyone a little uncomfortable, that like it's not going to just be like, oh yeah, sure, everything's great.
Speaker 3:Nope, I got to check in with myself.
Speaker 1:I don't want to regret this. Yeah, so I stop, close my eyes, imagine the question and the person, and if I want to leap toward them, then it's a yes for me, and if I want to leap away, then it's a no.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I love that. I think that's a great practice. I actually was having a conversation yesterday with a friend of mine about you know, kind of doing the body scan and somatic healing, and one of the things that they had brought up was, you know, even starting with saying your name, you know, so saying some truths out loud and then seeing how your body reacts and then saying something like my hair is blonde, you know, and like and lies, and kind of seeing how you're and so it's almost like your body kind of does this natural pendulum towards what it wants and what it doesn't want. And so taking that time to just kind of check in, feel your body, do a body scan, and yeah, of course, you know the first time you do it, you know in a situation or a party and people around, it's going to be a little awkward. You're gonna be like I'm taking up so much time, I don't know. But like you know, it's part of the process and learning yourself.
Speaker 3:And I think it's a very powerful and healing tool and helps you kind of on that journey to not put yourself in situations you don't want to be in or have regrets or have shame. Yeah and yeah, I think it's super powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah, it's huge for me since I learned to start doing that and it's been. It's not let me down so far, but it does take. You have to have the. You know the gumption to be like and I just hold on. Let me think about that. No, thank you. Yeah, yeah, you know yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can remember there was a few times that I have done that, or even it was even simple as a kiss of hey, can I kiss you? And I'm like, actually no, thank you, you know. And they were just like okay, you know, thanks for saying something. And also, too, by you being honest with yourself, most people afterwards, after an act or whatever it is, you know, don't want to make you feel bad or put you in that place, yes, and so then they feel, you know, if you come back of like, oh, I didn't really want to do that or I felt awful, you know, then that's not, you know, allowing the other person to make a decision for themselves as well, and kind of putting them in this awkward place of like, ah, I violated this person, even though they told me yes, but they didn't really mean yes. And now, you know, it just kind of creates this really like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:In a complicated situation where no one you know from the beginning has ill intent, right yeah, and we're all just trying to navigate this fucked up life and feelings and emotions, especially when it comes to substances, where people will take advantage of substances being on board and maybe even if you have the the wisdom and the courage to check in with yourself and say no, sometimes you get pushed back yeah, I have experienced that myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you get pushed back and then you're like, oh well, here I spent five years developing the ability to say no, but I didn't expect someone to be like but da, da, da, da, and then you're like fuck, what do I do with?
Speaker 3:that yes, that's actually yeah, no. That raises a lot of good points I have yeah, where you're? You finally build up the confidence and it took you so much amount of time and effort to be able to say it. And then sometimes someone might try to coerce you into it or make justifications or almost convince you. You know, like, oh well, but you know it can be like X, or it won't be that long, or I'm really good at you know they're almost trying to like sell themselves you know, and yeah, that can be tricky.
Speaker 3:Um, I've definitely been stuck in situations like that where I'm like, well, now what? Um, and then I don't like sometimes being backed in a corner to almost have to be forcibly mean or like. I said no.
Speaker 1:Or the only way out now is to be like super forceful.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, yeah, and that can be, that can be tough, and even sometimes in those situations I've doubted myself or I'm not in a place, maybe emotionally, or have the bandwidth to be able to start that back and forth conversation, and so I'll change my no into a yes and then maybe end up drinking more or taking substances again to put myself back in that disassociative state. So I can just move forward, because I don't see a way out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for sure. I've even noticed that I had an interesting experience, like a month ago, where I was having a conversation about a friend that I was deeply, deeply concerned about and I was not in a good state to talk about it and it was too much for me at the time. It was just too much.
Speaker 1:And instead of saying I'm not in a good state to talk about this, I ended up taking more of the substance that we were using at the time, and unfortunately, that resulted in me having like a meltdown. But I mean, I'm glad, though that my brain and body were like uh-uh, we're not cool with this chick. You can't just override this shit, you know. But yeah, like sometimes we, if we get too much pushback, it's hard to stick to our guns, and I know I have trouble with that still, and I consider myself pretty advanced in the no technology.
Speaker 1:And I still have struggle with that sometimes, and I still have struggle with that sometimes, and especially, I think this is where, though, everyone adopting that enthusiastic participation as the standard of consent yes, yep, the fuck, yes, or it's a fuck, no, mm. Hmm, if you have to talk someone into something, it's a fuck, no, yep, right, like. End of story period.
Speaker 1:If you don't know, it's a fuck, no. Yes, if you story period. If you don't know, it's a fuck, no. Yes, if you're like yeah, exactly yes, and it goes. It goes for the person being asked the question too yeah like um, would you like to do this?
Speaker 1:if it's not a fuck, yes, it's a fuck, no, right then then everybody comes out of that just cleaner and safer and in a better situation, and I think it's just a strongly a best practice to to have everybody engage in. But I know it's. It's extra tricky when you have worked so hard to develop this. No, muscle and and substances are on board and you're like look at me, I just said the no, I did the thing you know. And then someone pushes past it and you're like, well, that wasn't part of the script. What am I supposed? You know, yeah. And then someone pushes past it and you're like, well, that wasn't part of the script, what am I supposed to do now? Yep, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then sometimes that can be triggering or put your brain in a state of like, uh, okay, and then you can almost go back into that state of um, what you're comfortable with, and can trigger that fight or flight or even that freeze where, yeah, you, yeah, you just don't know what to do. And so I think it's important for both people with consent to you know, be aware of you know as the person asking or the person being asked, you know checking in on what are your intentions and I think also a lot of this you know. And with substance use, alcohol use, you know love, having sex on substances had a lot of great. You know experiences on it and sober, and you know checking in just before anything or before you go to a party or before you have a moment of what is your intention here, you know?
Speaker 3:is it just for fun? Is it? You know you're looking for a new experience, a new connection, whatever it may be. But what is your intention? And even if you say yes, is your intention people pleasing, you know? Is your intention to distract, fill a void? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Maybe your ex is at the party you know like I want to make them jealous.
Speaker 3:Yeah, definitely done that a lot, and so I mean just you know being clear in what your intentions are and also too, you know, especially in this community and whatnot, it can be tricky on.
Speaker 3:If I do say yes, then what you know, are they going to get attached? Is there a relationship involved? You know, and we can go like a whole like rabbit hole down that, and so I think you know adding to consent when you get past. Yes, you know if you're able to even having a further conversation of intentions, absolutely, and you know checking in and you know which can add a layer of safety and comfortability and you know whatever.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, I agree. I think intentions is a huge part. There was a. We have a podcast about your ho phase, like how?
Speaker 3:we all have our ho phases, hopefully multiple.
Speaker 1:Maybe they never end, but um always a ho always a ho, yes, and so this idea of learning to communicate what you're looking to get out of that experience, and it could be like hey, I've actually had my eye on you for a few months. I'm, I'm really interested. Let's mess around and see what happens. Versus like you know what? I just want to hook up tonight. I'm not looking for anything.
Speaker 1:Right and just being open about that with people is really helpful in terms of helping them and yourself navigate future interactions after kind of a hookup.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh that's so important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's actually something I've been trying to work on in the past like year or two, so after my sobriety and kind of took a step back from just parties in general and having sex in general a little bit, and I would say the last couple of years slowly kind of getting back into the dating scene, getting comfortable having sex again and, you know, putting myself in those situations and almost kind of again having to relearn. Ok, you know, this newfound me after these few years and what is important to me. And sometimes I just want to go to a party and I'm like I'm not really here to play, I'm just here to like hang out with my friends and talk and have a good time and just connect and and whatnot maybe be a little. You know, really here to play, I'm just here to like hang out with my friends and talk and have a good time and just connect and and whatnot Maybe be a little, you know, voyeuristic and just kind of watch.
Speaker 3:You know, if I have consent, yeah, and sometimes I'm like no, you know I need, I'm, I'm in the zone, I want to see what's out there, Like I'm feeling good, I'm feeling empowered and I just want to go out and have some fun. And yeah, I've been practicing, I think, having those conversations at one with myself before going out, and then also with people that I'm engaging with, and I found it to be very helpful, because then there isn't that you can be, at least for myself I can be more in the moment.
Speaker 3:I can be more present, I can be more open, I feel more safe. I'm not kind of questioning in the back of my head. I'm like, oh, you know, how are they going to take this, or you know like are they going to contact me afterwards, or do I? You know, it just kind of, yeah, or maybe I have a crush on them and then, you know, it kind of allows me to keep my emotions in check, of getting you know too attached or just, you know, being casual or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think intentions are huge. Yeah, I think they're huge, I know, for my partner and I, for us. Like when we hook up with someone together, we always have a conversation at the beginning like, hey, we're here to have this fun together, this is going to be great. And we want to be super clear that this starts now and it ends when we walk out of the room. And when we walk out of the room, nothing has walk out of the room. Nothing has changed between us, so we don't. This does not entitle you to touch me whenever you want to yep. This does not entitle you to start messaging me this does not entitle you to do these various things.
Speaker 1:this is like this is of the moment, it's happening here and now, and so he and I like to put these very clear boundaries on those things and be like that's what this is for us, and it has actually been very helpful for us to make it clearer to other people what you know, what our boundaries are as a couple. You know if we're going to play yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I think that's very healthy and very important and, yeah, kind of just setting the stage and the expectations I think you know also limits any confusion or expectations and also having those conversations and if there were to be some sort of behavior, you know, you've at least done your part to eliminate any confusion or any you know thing beyond that. So, yeah, no, I think that's that's super important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's helpful to communicate about that, because there that is one of the big things I don't know like as a woman. One of my things with hooking up with people has been I have this fear that they will feel entitled to my body after they hook up with me yes, like once.
Speaker 3:You say yes once. Now it's yes, always, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yes, like that. Me saying yes to hooking up with you tonight means somehow that it's okay for you to just come behind me and put your arms around me at a party next week and it's not Because for me, that can trigger my disassociative state and that can trigger things in me that are not able to fully consent. Yep, and so I need it to be really clear, if I'm going to mess around with someone, that we know that it stays here. And I've had some people express that that is weird to them Really, yeah, interesting, yeah, and that they you know, or surprising or you know or weird, but what it is is, it's what works for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, and that looks different for each person Exactly and not one rule fits everyone. Some, you know, I know some people are very like just touchy-feely in general and they're okay being touched. And if they've, you know, had an interaction or sexual encounter with you, it's just like yeah sure you know, free reign that with you. It's just like yeah sure, you know free reign, that's great. Um, that's not. And also it can look different for different people. You know, to like some people you might have more of a history of you, have more of a friendship, comfortability and you've built that over years, versus new people, you know, and they kind of look at that and they're like well, why can I do that? And it's like cause, it's just a different connection.
Speaker 1:It's a different situation.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, that's why always communication, communication communication is key.
Speaker 1:Communication is so key. Oh my gosh, over-communicating, yep, over-communicating about consent, which I know again, like some people find very annoying. But I think, grow up, get over it. Let's all over-communicate about consent. It is sexy, it's so much sexier, so like to be talking with someone intimately and feeling really drawn to them and to be like can I kiss you?
Speaker 1:And then, if the answer is yes, you can both just go full force into it instead of the awkward like leaning in and like, oh yeah, way into the kiss and it's such a like better experience and I think when people talk about consent being awkward, I'm like it's so much more awkward to not ask for consent and to engage in that whole like awkward leaning toward each other's faces, not sure what's happening, right yeah, no, that's funny.
Speaker 3:I actually actually reminds me of a time what was I think it was like a hinge data a while ago or something.
Speaker 3:And you know, just, I've learned a lot of good practices from being in this community for about 10 years and I remember asking him, you know, before we went into some sexual acts, and he's seemed so surprised and was like I have never been asked this before. I was like, really, and I've actually even just by me giving consent or asking others that may not be directly tied in the community, they've learned a lot and been like oh, like that actually felt good. You know, because even kind of outside of our world, I feel like that is something that isn't discussed or talked about a lot and so by your actions and your behaviors can really help others to learn that as well. So you know, it's like lead by example, which is can be very powerful, um, and it's not always going to be perfect and some people may not like it or be like you know why would you even ask that? Maybe, you know, you'll find out who is your people and who isn't, you know, depending on their level of respect.
Speaker 1:Definitely I had a dude who I was Depending on their level of respect. Definitely I had a dude who I was starting to fool around with at a sex club actually, and my partner was messing around with his partner and he and I were messing around a little bit and I think I was like, is it OK if I take your underwear off, or something? And he was like, yeah, sure that's fine, or something like that. And I was like I, sure that's fine, or something like that. And I was like I'm like it sounds to me like you're a little uncomfortable. Can you help me understand what's going on? Yeah, you know. And he was like, oh, no, it's I. I want you to, but you know. Then he informed me that he doesn't go down on girls.
Speaker 1:And and he's like I'd love it if you went down on me, but I don't go down on girls. And I was like, well, thank you so much for telling me that, because I don't go down on people that don't go down on me. So now we know, and I'm so glad that I sensed his discomfort and was like, hey, something's off here. What's going on right? Instead of being like, oh, I don't want to make it awkward and ask a question. Well, it's a lot more awkward to get to the point where you're like you went down on him and then he doesn't reciprocate yeah, like fuck you, dude, right.
Speaker 1:So then we were able to stay in a space that felt like it could be reciprocal and good for us yeah, in our interaction yeah, yeah, so that was good. Yeah, well, this has been really awesome. I think we could talk about this for like three more hours there's a lot to unpack there.
Speaker 3:There's so much to unpack yeah.
Speaker 1:But thank you so much for coming and chatting with me about it. I really appreciate it. I think we've gotten to some really good stuff and I hope that the audience, the poddience- has enjoyed it as well.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoy talking about this. I think they're very important topics and, yeah, I hope our conversations today can help others and let you know that you're not alone, and maybe you learned something today Exactly.
Speaker 1:You're not alone. That is, if anything, that is the mission of this podcast. You are not alone. I won't try to sing the Michael Jackson song, but you can just hear it in your head. All right, all right, thanks y'all. Thank you, bye, bye in your head. All right, all right, thanks y'all. Thank you, Bye, bye. Thank you for listening to the Juicy Sex Podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, kindly click, like and subscribe. It really helps us get the word out and we'll see you next time.