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The Joosi Sex Podcast
Welcome to the Joosi Sex Podcast with me, Alisa Eddy. I'm the CEO of Joosi Sexual Wellness, and my friends and I discuss the intersection of sexuality and everything else that matters in life! Here at The Joosi Sex Podcast, we believe adult sexuality is a much more enjoyable adventure when approached with curiosity, playfulness, and always, enthusiastic consent.
The Joosi Sex Podcast
Call Me Daddy: Dominatrixes Tell All
What if exploring your deepest desires could lead to a life of empowerment and freedom? This week, the Joosi Sex Podcast is thrilled to feature the fascinating Misstress Val Eldritch, a Sensual Domina who transitioned from the corporate world to the liberating realm of sex work. Listen as Alisa and Val recount their captivating journeys, sharing the challenges and triumphs they faced along the way. From her preference for the term "Domina" to her unique practice of full-body sensual massage, Val offers insights into the softer yet powerful dynamics she maintains with her clients.
Val doesn't just talk about techniques; she delves deep into the emotional connections and consent that form the backbone of her work. She reveals how her background in Ayurvedic massage contributes to creating a holistic, stress-relieving experience for her clients. With heartfelt anecdotes and personal reflections, Val underscores the necessity of a respectful and caring environment where clients can safely explore their fantasies and kinks. We also address the societal paradox where sex work is both consumed and stigmatized, and the courage it takes to navigate such a landscape.
But that's not all. This episode also explores themes of unity and empowerment among sex workers, shedding light on the emotional labor involved and the importance of building trust and rapport. Val provides a raw look at the complexities of the industry, from dealing with substance use to advocating for better regulation and support. Whether you're curious about the nuances of BDSM, the ethics of financial domination, or the emotional highs and lows of sex work, this episode promises an enlightening and empowering conversation.
Oh my God, the best times I've had in sessions is when we're doing a serious scene but like, of course we we've built so much trust and rapport that I'll just say whatever stupid thing that comes up to my head and we we have to stop the scene for a solid five minutes because he's laughing. I'm pressing my face a while trying not to cackle because I'm not trying to like, but he's like. So one of one of the times that this happened was like I'm leaning in like his he's face down into the table because like it's an easy position for um, an easy and comfortable starter position for a new guest, um, and I'm just like dragging my sharp nails on his back. He's getting the shivers and I like lean in close to his ear and I'm like you ready for me to take your behind, man, fuck, sorry, I can't.
Speaker 1:I can't even keep a straight face now, but like oh my god, wow so now whenever I I can't not use that joke now I I try not to do it in the middle of the session, I'll do it in the beginning, when we're just like talking consent and stuff. I was like so this is going to be our first real session, I'll be taking your behind. And it provides that levity that allows us to be comfortable with each other because they're being so vulnerable with us, so vulnerable.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Juicy Sex Podcast, where my friends and I have raw, unfiltered and hilarious conversations about all things sex. I'm Alisa Eddy, the founder and CEO of Juicy Sexual Wellness, where we try the toys and help you find the right one for you. Now on to the podcast. Okay, welcome to the Juicy Sex Podcast. Today, we are going to be talking with a notable dominatrix and we're going to be talking about sex work. So I want to set intentions at the beginning of this episode. At Juicy, we believe sex work is real work, and our guest is an independent, self-employed sex worker who does legal sensual body work. We support her right to do so and celebrate the fabulous life she lives because of it. So I just want to make that real clear, All right, so my very special guest is Miss Val Eldridge.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I am so excited to answer so many of these questions and share my answers, because in answering these questions it made me really think about my practice and I learned a lot about myself just reading these questions you wrote out for me.
Speaker 2:Oh, awesome, you bet I'm excited to have this conversation too. Okay, so, first of all, who are you in the world of sex work? What is it that?
Speaker 1:you do. So my persona, my public persona, is Val Eldridge. In my personal life I do actually go as Val, so my personal identity and my work identity have started to meld together. But when I'm called Miss Eldritch or when the Eldritch is mentioned, then I am very much in my sensual domina role.
Speaker 2:Ah, okay, sensual domina. Okay, can you tell us a little bit about what that?
Speaker 1:means so the common word that I hear label is dominatrix. And to me it is a very powerful label, it is a very powerful role, but it didn't feel like it fit well with my persona, my intentions, and that's why I took on the name Domina or the title Domina, because it's still very much in the vein. I still take power in the dynamic with my clients, but it is a softer role. So I took out that TRIX, which makes it that really hard word, but it's still very much a similar role.
Speaker 2:Yeah, makes sense, okay, so how long have you been doing?
Speaker 1:this Officially according to my taxes, three years. I have filed taxes three years now and I started in Denver doing before you got started doing this.
Speaker 1:So, I have dabbled in a lot of corporate jobs or like business development, pharmaceuticals and property management, all over the place, because I really couldn't find where I could use my skill sets like this random set of people skills, business acumen and sales, I guess and I never really found it in corporate. I felt like I was just pushing buttons or going to meetings and I never got to express the creativity that I worked so hard to develop in school. And so when I was basically fired from my property management role during COVID because who needs a property manager when you're not selling any properties? Fair enough, yeah, it was honestly one of the best moments of my life.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:Well, that's amazing Because it was freedom, like I didn't. I was forced out on my own two feet, basically. So it's like yeah, I don't want to go back to corporate right now. It's COVID, like, what am I going to do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, you turn lemons into lemonade. All right, perfect. So one of the things that you do in your practice is something called full body sensual massage. Can you tell us what that is?
Speaker 1:Of course. So the standard definition that you'll find online, or most people will describe it as it's usually one hour massage that focuses on sensual touch and the goal is to elicit a climax by the end of the session. There is no one specific massage style used by practitioners. Personally, I have trained in Ayurvedic massage. I do not have a massage license. I what's it called? Do not promote myself as a masseuse, but more focus on that sensual touch, the body work aspect of it.
Speaker 1:And for Ayurvedic, I learned it in India while I was just backpacking around and I found that that really resonated with me because it takes on a very holistic approach to massage. So deep tissue Swedish sport it's all about getting the knots out, whereas Ayurvedic was relieving emotional stress as well as the physical stress, because the knots we keep in our body aren't always from like an injury or from like. It's usually like holding tension, like we're stressed, so we're like scratching our shoulders. So when I started receiving Ayurvedic massage in India, it helped me so, so much and I was so excited to share that with people. And, mind you, I learned Ayurvedic almost a decade before I started this practice. Oh really, yeah Cool, it just all started coming together All these random skill sets that I learned over time just made sense for me to pursue full body central massage.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, that's really cool. So it was a collection of experiences that came to some kind of synergistic moment in your life. Yeah, that's really awesome. Okay, so a big question what is dominatrix or sensual domina work for you? What does it mean to?
Speaker 1:you means to take care of my guests, like I genuinely care about the people who come to see me. Um, I saw and learned in an agency um, many styles of domination because we weren't trained. In this agency it was a bunch of women who came together and they were given a room to work in, tools to work with and, um, basically a client list that was not their own. So I would get picked out as like, oh, I'll take the Asian one, and I was like that's not a good way to pick it up. Oh, no, right, if you don't know your dom's name, it's kind of a weird vibe.
Speaker 1:But learning in that agency allowed me to pick up and see all these different styles at once and just grab what really resonated with me, which was caring for my guests, making them have a safe space to explore these interesting kinks, fantasies or just types of touch that they might not get in their personal lives, that they've always wanted to explore or know that they're deeply missing. And I wanted to do it in a safe and ethical way because I have seen and experienced a range of kinks, or just like consulted with my guests about the kinks that they want to explore, and I like to keep my practice fairly on the softer, safer side. So anything where it puts risk biohazard risk, health risk, just anatomical risk, because sometimes these restraints or these plays can be really dangerous. So I try to minimize that and focus more on the psychological domination of power exchange. Those are my bread and butter when I dominate.
Speaker 2:Okay, amazing, okay, that makes a lot of sense. So I'm curious how you see your role in terms of people and whether or not they're in a relationship with somebody else. Do you see yourself as being in a relationship with your clients?
Speaker 1:That's an interesting question, actually, because that's making me think about the relationship I have with them. So I have a relationship with them. You have to right. This is such a deeply intimate moment. I have guests who see me every week, sometimes twice a week, and I know everything about their family, their spouse, their childhood. So how can I not have this deep, intimate relationship if I wasn't listening to them? So I I do believe what I actually tell them this, this is what I tell them is that when they're there with me, I love them. Sorry, I haven't said that to anyone other than my clients, but and it's a different kind of love. It's not like romantic love. It's the love that you, like a mother, cares for their child. It's truly like I want. Their well-being is so important to me in that time. But it's also a love that has no expectations. If they see me once, they see me every week, if they see me for the rest of my life, the rest of their life, like I'm just happy for each moment I have with them.
Speaker 1:And that I will pour my love into the moments I have with them and of course, I have set boundaries. I'm like, ok, this is the time we have. I can't pour any more love into you in this session or I will not have enough for everyone else. I have to be careful with that love. But by allowing myself to love to care about my guests, I feel like it's made my practice something sustainable for me and something really meaningful for the people that do see me.
Speaker 2:That is so interesting. I think that's really cool. I think that is like. That definitely makes it much more sustainable and more fulfilling for you, probably at the end of the day, you know.
Speaker 1:Because growing up I was taught that love is just for your family and your direct partner and a monogamous partner.
Speaker 1:It wasn't even to friends, like my family never said I love you to their friends, albeit, it was a big family, so there was a lot of people to love in the family. But when I started learning through my practice that love comes in many forms and can be shared so easily and so carefully Because, like again, I can't like show too much love because then that's setting a wrong expectation for them, but by caring it makes it a real experience Whereas I saw co-workers at the agency who did it purely for money and some people have to, like they need to do the work for the money but there was a distinct difference between the people who loved it for the craft and for the love of the guests versus the ones who just saw it as like a clock in, clock out situation.
Speaker 2:Oh, definitely. Yeah, I can. I can definitely see that I can say so. This is my first time talking about this on the podcast, but I have actually done a little bit of dominatrix work as an online dom, um, and so I didn't do it for long, I did it for a few months. It was a really interesting experience. It was fucking fascinating and I'm really glad I did it, um, and I I think, uh, I can see how having that kind of emotional generosity could make it more sustainable. I didn't get to the point where I had to do that, but I definitely.
Speaker 1:It's hard digitally. It is hard digitally.
Speaker 2:It's a very different beast. You can't hold their hands.
Speaker 1:You can't.
Speaker 2:You can't look them in the eyes. No, yeah, exactly, it's really different. But yeah, so that is for the audience. That is something that I have done. That was a really interesting time in my life and I still identify as someone who's a sex worker because of that and there's a limited amount of experience and understanding I have. But part of our conversation is going to be a little bit of comparing notes. So yeah, just for everybody to know.
Speaker 1:I would actually like to posit that when you do your consent talk because we talked about it before, we talked about your practice before your consent talks are a form of love. It's a form of care, because I've had doms who don't do the consent talk and the lack of love and care there is so tangible versus when they do care. Yeah, it's not even just a professional thing. It's like you cared about their well-being.
Speaker 2:It's caring about people.
Speaker 2:I think so for me when doing dominatrix work, it was really online.
Speaker 2:It was really important to me to find out from people what their boundaries were, where they didn't want me to go psychologically, because a lot of the work I did was humiliation work, and that's some deep shit that you're working with, and so it really mattered to me to be triggering the places that they wanted triggered, but not the places that would cut them to the white meat, you know.
Speaker 2:So I think it's super important. But what I was surprised by, you know, as a person who has some real life kink experience in doing this online dominatrix work, people were really surprised that I was asking to have consent talks with them. People were really surprised that I was asking to have consent talks with them. They were like what do you mean? I don't understand. I just want you to tell me what to do. And I had to, like, patiently explain yeah, that's not how it works. I want this to be something that's safe for you and that, where you can, you can actually release yourself to the experience if you know that I'm not going to go places that are going to damage you, right? So that part of it definitely mattered to me for sure. So yeah, I think that's an interesting.
Speaker 1:How did you evolve that part of your practice? As the as time went on, did you refine it?
Speaker 2:I did. At first I didn't realize that it was missing, except that I found myself pausing in the middle of a session like, hey, is it OK if I go here? Is it OK if I say this? Is it OK if I say that? And they're like, why are you asking me? And I'm like, well, because, shit, we didn't have a consent. Talk, right. And so, knowing as much as I do in real life, shit about consent, I was like fuck man, I have to add that in. About consent, I was like fuck man, I have to add that in. And it's a little tricky because with online work, they're coming to you and they expect results really fast and they want you to like start to get them turned on really fast. And so I had to take the risk of being like we're going to pause and have this conversation and fill this out, and, yes, you're going to get charged by the minute for it, but if you can just comply quickly and do, what.
Speaker 2:I ask of you, then everything will be fine. But yeah, so it was interesting. I did that, did definitely evolve for me and I learned at first there wasn't enough of it, then there was a little bit too much of it and then I kind of hit like a stride where I felt like I could feel people out a little better and I developed like certain talking points that I'd be like what about this, what about this, what about this, especially when it comes to humiliation? Are these things that are okay with you if I bring them up when you're in a more vulnerable subspace and they could say yes or no?
Speaker 1:Did you find these practices on an online resource at all? Like, where were you learning these things? Or is it just through your own practice, just through?
Speaker 2:my own real life practice with consent, and so trying to apply that to the online context was. I was trying to do the best I could. I did not find examples of other people doing it. I was Googling it and trying, oh my God, god.
Speaker 1:So that was my issue was like, okay, I could easily google how to spank someone, yeah, but how do I google how to what's it called? Talk to them about the emotions behind their spankings? Um, and that's why, um, I applaud you for going digital, because I think it's infinitely harder than meeting someone in person, and having that talk.
Speaker 1:Because I'm still struggling through that, like I'll do 30 minute coffee dates where I just get to know them as a person, and then we have the in-person in my dungeon session talk, and even then it's like pulling teeth with some of them. It is yeah and like not in a fun kinky way no, I agree, that was.
Speaker 2:I experienced that too. I found that when I would say, for example, um, when it comes to humiliation, um, gay stuff is a thing that can be really humiliating for men and that that I find interesting and that can be a turn on for me to talk about or engage in, and so I would ask, like, is it OK if I bring up this kind of thing or tell you that you have to do something that's in this category? And it was really hard for people to say yes or no, because what's tricky is they're coming to you as a dom because they don't want to have to make decisions. However, to ethically engage, yeah, we have to get some shit on the record before we start, and so, uh, that was, that was a tricky, did?
Speaker 1:you get a lot of repeats, because I feel like you can figure that stuff out slowly if you do one new trigger or maybe two or three new triggers each session, but when they're only coming for one session, like you have one hour to fill.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like you have to bust out a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly yeah, and you have to be creative, it has to be new, it has to be newer than it was before. I had some repeats, but I didn't do it long enough to have a ton of them, so I think that was made it a little extra challenging, because neither of us were sure why to invest in the conversation to some extent, like are we ever going to talk again? I don't know someone psychologically when they're in a subspace if I don't know what triggers are a no-go or which ones are like the sweet spot where they want you to hit that and it's like hurts. So good, right.
Speaker 1:Like that's part of it too, and it sounds like you're conscientious about the power you have. You genuinely know how much power you have, and a lot of sex workers, I believe, don't understand how much agency and how much power they have in their meetings with these clients and, in one hand, like they should know, because that would make them feel a lot more secure. I think a lot of sex workers I know when I first started didn't know how much power I had and I felt like I was at the whims of my clients.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, on the other hand, it's important for them to know, because we can do a lot of damage.
Speaker 2:We can we can do a lot of damage. We can, and I think and one of the things that struck me early on that was part of what encouraged me to do this was both a I felt like I didn't have a roadmap when I was engaging them. That is more what I'm used to in real life stuff.
Speaker 1:OK so I have this crazy thought that, like isn't it crazy that there'll be like a how, like a dummy's guide to open a hot dog stand? But god forbid, like we understand how sex work works um, the oldest profession in the world like this has been happening for forever, since like the beginning of humankind yes, yes absolutely.
Speaker 1:Um, and yet penguins do it, they'll, they'll do a strip dance for pretty shiny rocks, like sex work is a natural process or a natural thing, and the resources out there are so few and far between and I will acknowledge I am guilty, like I am accumulating all this knowledge and I want to share. But the fear of sharing, the fear of putting myself out there, the fear of receiving all that hate and being a public figure for this is tangible, like even just posting cute photos of myself nothing, even racy, and the amount of hate from people for having autonomy over my body and my sexuality.
Speaker 2:For having the balls.
Speaker 2:have the courage to show yourself how dare you and then, god forbid I tell other women they can do the same it's true I think that that can make you kind of public enemy number one in a lot of people's eyes, and it's, it's really interesting how much our society consumes um, I'll say like beautiful sexual content a woman, and yet also derides the women who make the beautiful sexual content. It's fucking fascinating and it's like, oh, it's a thirst trap, oh, they're so thirsty they're posting a pretty picture of themselves and yet that picture got 200% more likes and 80% more comments, and you know all that stuff than anything else.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I need people to be liking my goofy shit more. Okay, the thirst traps. It's for the algorithm, yeah, but the true vow. Come on, come on, come on. I'm like playing with ducks, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right. So I am curious. So we talked a little bit about what you did before, but what more about how you got into sex work? It says that your true start was in college.
Speaker 1:Yes, so I am a first gen immigrant, which means that I was born in the Philippines, moved around a lot while my parents were trying to find good jobs to get us to the West. When we finally got to America, we were very poor. We lived in share houses, we lived in low-income neighborhoods. But my parents really pushed for my education and I was so grateful for that. But they and I didn't realize how much that education cost, especially once college came. So finally my family was getting to a point where we could have enough and I was applying for really good colleges. I was so happy, I was so proud of myself.
Speaker 1:My grades were good, I'd work really hard. But uh, we kind of. We kind of got shafted by the system because now we were making a little too much for me to get good loans or grant programs. But most of the money my family was making was being sent back to the Philippines to take care of other family members. So there was no money for me to be, for my parents to pay for my college. So my education was entirely my responsibility. So I could have done the three jobs thing or I could have just worked myself to the bone. But I'm a practical person and my grades mattered to me. So really logically, it made sense for me to enter sex work because of the financial security, the time availability, because I was in honors programs, I was doing sports, I was volunteering, and you can't work jobs and do all those things at once. But if you strip once a month on the weekend you can make the same amount as any. What's it called? What's the base income? What is it called Minimum income? Oh, minimum wage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, minimum wage you can make as much as a minimum wage person in a single night. So logically, it just made sense and I was very comfortable with my body. I was I. I never really had that same, um discomfort around sex as a lot of my other catholic classmates and family friends, um so, and I needed the money. So I started auditioning for go-go clubs around my sophomore year.
Speaker 1:I met this wonderful club owner who was a woman. It was a woman-owned club and she made me feel so safe and secure so that when I was dancing that I felt safe, I could do this and not feel like it would interrupt my regular life. And she was like hey, at any time you need to focus on yourself, just let me know, you don't have to work that weekend. She worked with my schedule. She did all these great things, and so that doorway into sex work, into go-go dancing, made me feel so comfortable with the practice I was. Go-go dancing made me feel so comfortable with the practice. I was, I feel, really blessed that I had that experience.
Speaker 1:And I did pursue other strip clubs after that first one, because that was a dive bar. It was I, it was all bikers, they only played rock music and don't get me wrong. I figured it out. But boy, howdy, that was an interesting experience trying to shake my ass to like corn, and it was such an like. Love the owner, love the experience, but the club or the bar itself? Let's just say we never turn on the lights, not even to clean it self. Let's just say we never turned on the lights not even to clean it.
Speaker 1:We did not want to, we did not want to see what it was. So I did level up my game. I worked at like other clubs in New Jersey over time, raising my income as well, because bigger clubs, better money and also but higher expectations. Right, you have to have better lingerie, you have to have better heels, you have to dance better. So as I leveled up my sex work experience, so did my opportunities in the sex industry or stripping industry. I even got to work at Bada Bing, that club, the strip club from the sopranos, yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:It was like not a dream coach, I don't. I didn't dream of working there, but let's just say that was. That was a really fun experience I wish I could put my sex work resume. Um and I, after I finished college, I did leave stripping behind because it was supposed to just tide me over.
Speaker 1:But, that first entry into sex work. That was such a good experience Not Washington, mind you, do not strip in Washington but that that introduction made me feel so comfortable in my body and made me feel more powerful than I had ever felt in any other aspect of my life, from martial arts to school to sports, like I felt like I had true agency when I was up on that stage, when I was controlling conversations, when I was taking people to VIP rooms, and you never forget that high yeah, and I think that's what made it easy for me to start my own practice. Because I think a lot of, not a lot, but I do think if no one has had, if someone has had zero experience in sex work, it's easy to just join an agency. Because in the agency I was with for doming and fbsm, um, none of those other um practitioners had sex work experience before, albeit they were really young.
Speaker 1:I was one of the oldest, yeah, at 28. I like they were like you're still working. I was like I hope so, but they were like 19 to 22 was the average age in that agency and it was bananas to me how like they were being pushed into that much agency right away Because they were trying to run their own practices, basically as independent or independence, renting a room from the agency. Yeah, and it didn't work out so well. Unfortunately, the agency did fall apart a few months after I left.
Speaker 1:oh, interesting yeah, oh, huh yeah, agencies are difficult to run. Yeah, yeah, there are much higher risks than a private practice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. Let me tell you a story.
Speaker 2:I was really excited to buy a new clit-sucking toy. So I went to the world's largest online sex toy retailer and I found hundreds of options with no indication which ones are quality and which ones are right for me. So I had to make my best guess. I ordered the toy, got it in the mail, super excited to try it, and bummer, it's way too strong, even on the lowest setting Turns out. I can't even use it, and I wasted 80 bucks. So I throw it in my nightstand and a couple months later I look to discover that it has actually melted into another sex toy in my nightstand.
Speaker 2:I was so mad I decided to start my own sex toy company, Juicy. At Juicy, we sell a highly curated selection of body-safe sex toys and we test them so that we can give you all the deets about whether or not it's right for you, such as how strong or gentle it is, how loud is it and how easy is it to operate. So support this podcast and buy your next sex sex toy at getjuicycom. That's G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom, Getjuicycom, G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom. I can say for me how I got into it sense, since I was like maybe even as early as late high school. But at least in this person wants from me, I'm not a little like I don't quite understand why me getting bitchy is turning them on.
Speaker 2:I didn't get it yet and I don't know. I don't know what that is or what that was, or why that is something that that so many people kind of like saw and sought out from me, but I suspect it's because I can be a very outspoken and opinionated person for a woman and maybe that triggered the desire to be dominated or something like that.
Speaker 1:Um, but you're also tall I'm also tall. You're also really tall, right?
Speaker 2:yes, five, nine, five nine yeah, so I'm tall, I'm dark I you know you have the aesthetics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have kind of the look, um, I like to wear black a lot, but, um, I don't know. It was just just something that I knew that people wanted from early and I was looking to make more money. So what I did was I decided to try out a platform that specialized in kink for online dom work, and the reason I did that was because my personality I really don't like people telling me what to do. I don't respond well to that at all and I'm also not much of a people pleaser, and so I, from the friends I had that were doing like cam work and stuff like that, I knew that that was a lot of what got involved.
Speaker 2:So I was like well, if I do dom work in a place where people are specifically looking for doms and that's what they're coming there for, then I can be more assured that I'll have situations popping off that I can deal with that. I want to deal with that. I don't have to just hang up on so that was sort of how that began. So because my style of doming is not like you have your essential domina, mine is a little different.
Speaker 1:I think yours is more akin to the traditional dominatrix style, right With the humiliation and just overpowering them.
Speaker 2:Lots of black yeah lots of black and the humiliation is something that I specialize in, for better or worse, and you know, knowing that, I needed to be in a place where people would understand that type of domination, and that it wasn't. It wasn't a mommy dom type situation, it wasn't a sensual dominatrix type of thing, and so I chose a platform that specialized in this type of work, and I think that was really smart and I think that's the reason that I was able to continue with it for a little while, like I did, because I didn't get the kind of mismatch that I was expecting a lot of if I had done other types of camming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the way you market and how you advertise yourself really sets the tone for your clientele. I made the mistake of no. I don't think it's a mistake. I had a learning experience in which I posted content on Instagram where it suggested I was a different style of sex worker than I am currently, and it wasn't like a direct like oh, I do this, but it was this idea where I am softer.
Speaker 1:And then I started getting requests because I have an application process. I had applications coming in and part of it is they have to explain what they want for me, so they have to set the tone like early, and some of what they were asking was not in line with what I usually offer and I was like are these guys not reading my website? And they weren't. Like they'll see the first piece of content, make a judgment call and then disregard everything else, just because they want what they want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I think for me, coming from branding is one of my specialties in the business world to not having to reject 89% of the people that came to me was I had to find the right place and make sure that I represented what I actually do and who I actually am. So that was definitely key, and it's tricky because some little small things can misbrand you in the eyes of people yeah, which is bananas.
Speaker 2:But even there people were really like very surprised and sometimes put off by having to have the conversation about what was good or not good for them in their experience afraid to say yes to things I wanted sexually, because that meant admitting to desire, admitting to this kind of carnal nature.
Speaker 2:And if someone wants to be dominated and they can say specifically what they want and don't want, then they're really admitting what they're setting themselves up for and I think that there can be some shame in that and I think it can be a little scary.
Speaker 1:Yes, I definitely share that fear of sharing myself, been reading a lot of books and going to a lot of therapy, and I know part of my fear is from my parents because, coming from old world, children were seen, not heard. It's still the case now as an adult, like my feelings and my emotions and my desires are always second to what the family wants, especially coming from that culture where family is everything. What an individual does is not as important as how it impacts the family, and that's so different in the Western world, and so it baffles me that Westerners are still having that issue of sharing themselves in a world that, like idolizes independence.
Speaker 2:Totally where individuality is like above all other values.
Speaker 1:And it's still not being solved. This ability to share our true selves and our true desires. Um, so it's like I've, uh, I felt like I was able to see through that facade faster because I'm like, oh okay, wait, no, you're having the same issues as me. It doesn't matter if you're western or from old world. You can't show your feelings oof I know right.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's fascinating or desires.
Speaker 1:desires Specifically desire.
Speaker 2:Specifically desire we're getting better with feelings. We're getting better with feelings.
Speaker 1:We're making some movement there.
Speaker 2:But I think just admitting to even having desire, yeah, is still like a taboo thing which is fucking ridiculous.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite stories from college is I remember just hanging out with a bunch of girls and one of my favorite girlies she was very outspoken and very comfortable talking about just like y'all like getting choked, and it was dead, fucking silent and I was just like maybe, but I was so nervous to say anything and she was like okay, and then the subject was dropped. But like thinking about it like that, I don't have many regrets in my life. But she was like okay, and then the subject was dropped. But like thinking about it like that, I don't have many regrets in my life. But she was trying to open a dialogue with us. She was, and none of us felt comfortable. We were juniors in college, like we were in a safe place with people we loved. It was all females and we still didn't feel comfortable talking. Albeit, she just came out of the fucking room.
Speaker 2:Y'all like getting choked. It's a little out of the blue.
Speaker 1:Maybe you want to like work your way up there Yo where he's like hey. Like holding hands. You like getting throttled? Yeah, but I do like that in my community now, in the friends that I keep. Now I can say something like that just out of the blue, and they're like they'll be comfortable saying yes or nay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is which is amazing, I think finding especially if you're a sex positive person finding a community that shares your values is one of the most empowering experiences of my life, which is a big part of why I do this podcast is because I want other people to find that sex positive community that shares their values.
Speaker 1:Even if you live in the middle of rural Kentucky and there's not a lot of people like us around you, we're still out here and we're still here with you, and I also want to emphasize that I've learned that sex positive doesn't mean promiscuous, which is like one of the fears I had when I was younger was like, oh, if I start sharing what I like, that I like sex, are people going to think I'm sleeping with everyone? And like, personally, I've been monogamous most of my life. Only recently have I started exploring the poly space, after years of seeing how well it worked out for my friends and seeing how well it resonated with me, but then being afraid like, oh, with what I do, is that going to make me even less likable? Because being a sex worker already I felt like was a possible red flag, which now I'm so proud to talk about it, like so grateful that I'm invited to talk on your podcast about being a sex worker.
Speaker 1:I was even telling, like my partners and close friends, like, hey, I'm about to go to this podcast to talk about stuff. Do you want to go over my answers and questions with me so that, like I can feel ready and they were so hyped for me and to feel that outpouring of love for what I do and who I truly am has been so helpful to my personal growth and like my personal self-worth and, in turn, what I can share with my guests, because I know that the happier I am, the kinder I am to myself, the kinder I can be to everyone else. Also, because then I get less bitchy. When they like cancel a meeting, I'm like you know what? That's fine, I'm just going to watch a movie. I'm going to put on my pajamas now.
Speaker 2:Just to have that support for where you're coming from and who you are and what you're doing is huge. I think that's bananasly huge, so I'm curious in this line of work.
Speaker 1:What are some of your favorite moments? I would have to say that reading reviews, because I am. I love the written word. I am a visual learner, so people can say things to me and I take it to heart. I like to listen, but when I read things, it actually like I see the to heart. I like to listen, but when I read things, it actually like I see the piece of like. Close my eyes, I can see the, the words like being written out in my behind my lids.
Speaker 1:Um, so when people take the time to write out how they felt with their time with me or the experiences that we shared like, or they even write on cards how much they appreciate their time with me. I have a box of all these thank you cards that clients have written to me over the years and that's some of my favorite presents, because then, whenever I'm having a low time, if the season is slow, if I just need a pick-me-up, if I'm feeling good and I just want to read stuff, I can just go through all these written words and these are tangible memories for me to like, carry with me, and then hopefully one day I can actually put them all up on a wall after I finish my practice and just like frame them up so people can see how much I loved actually having my practice.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, that's so affirming to have people acknowledge directly to you the positive impact that your work has had on them is huge of what's really helpful and impactful for my guests.
Speaker 1:So if they share that because it's hard to share in person Usually they're like, yeah, I'm good, it's like twitching, they're having a good time. They are not coherent and I'm like chef's kiss. But later, when they're able to write it out, when they're able to think through it and share each thoughtful thing that I did that really meant so much for them, then I know that this is helpful. Maybe this isn't, and I can direct my energy into practices that continue to make me a better provider. Yeah, so that's the biggest gift for me is making my business better.
Speaker 2:For sure Making your business better but also knowing that you're making people's lives better.
Speaker 1:I think, that's.
Speaker 2:I think, no matter what kind of work you're doing, if you can find a way to get the feedback from people that you're actually making an improvement in people's lives, oh my God, that's everything it could be. You could be working at fucking Microsoft, you could be a dominatrix, you could be at McDonald's, whatever the fuck it is. If you can hear from people how you're making a difference in their life, it's huge. It's a total game changer. I think. For me the favorite thing, the thing I enjoyed the most. So I have a little bit of real life kink experience before doing the dominatrix work online.
Speaker 2:But what I noticed was that so many of the clients were really self-conscious of their kinks, really like afraid to talk about it, even with me. Even when they came to a kink site to talk to a dominatrix about something that is a domination related kink, they were ashamed and they felt weird about it. And I think one of my favorite things was being able to reassure them. Like actually, I know a lot of people who are just like you in real life. Yeah, like it's not, like you're actually not that weird, and I kind of get it Like, whatever their thing was like, I would try to put myself in their shoes and be like. I can see why this specific thing is is sensual to you, and I think one of my favorite examples was one of my regulars that I had who was a client with a glove fetish and so he really wanted to see me, like, put on and take off gloves. And I have I'm I'm a burner, so I've got a shit ton of costumes, so I had gloves to begin with, but it was really interesting.
Speaker 2:He was so self-conscious and felt weird about even asking for it and I'm like, out of all the things that I would expect potentially someone online to ask me to do you, asking me to put gloves on is like so low down on the list of like anything creepy or bad or that has any bad connotation to it. But he had a lot of self-consciousness and it. You know, we talked a bit about that and it seemed to really help him for me to reassure him.
Speaker 1:like this is like a, like a low level yeah this is not did you guys go into why that kink developed for him?
Speaker 1:um, I feel like I did, but I can't remember what the answer was anymore because sometimes when you go into the stories of how their kink developed, it's so beautiful. So I had a similar experience. This is actually one of my favorite experiences is another thing that I love is when guests bring gifts that are actually kink toys for them, because then it gives me a direction of where to go. I don't get offended easily, like if they bring me something I'm not going to use. I'm like that's nice, let me put it on the shelf of scary things that we're going to scare future guests with.
Speaker 1:Like someone brought in like a massive, like elephant dick sized pink dildo and I was like we're going to put future guests with like someone brought in like a massive, uh, like elephant dick sized pink dildo and I was like we're gonna put that over there. I don't think you want to use this. And he's like maybe okay, we did use it, we're not using it again. Um, back to the story. Um, so I had a guest bring uh, nylon stockings and they like hid it behind their back.
Speaker 1:It was so cute and he's like um, I got you a present, it's, you don't have to wear it if you don't want to. And he was like whispering and he was hiding, he was making himself smaller. I was like, show me thing, show me the thing. And then he brings out these two gorgeous and he sized me perfectly, dude, like these nylon stockings, very-end, lace, beautiful. I was like, fuck yeah, give that over here. And he's like um, if I, if I, if I pay you extra, can you, can you wear it? And I was like fuck yeah, um, and like, over time, like as he would come, he would always give me new things and I got really into it because I saw how excited it made him. And then we even got into why he really liked it. It's because he grew up in a time where nylon stockings were really popular and women at that time wore it all the time, and nowadays women don't really wear nylon stockings, so he misses that. They're coming back, though.
Speaker 2:They are, I dig them.
Speaker 1:I was in the middle of summer wearing like jean shorts with nylons on and I'm like comfier than you think yeah, really yeah, because, like um, when it's cold out it keeps you warm if you get the thick ones, but for the thin ones it keeps you from chafing. Oh yeah, yeah, and it and it's not like a full pant, so it's not so heavy, yeah, um. So, as he, we continued to explore this kink with him, as I got more invested into his story, um, I, I felt my creative juices just flowing, until one point I was like let's get fucking weird. He's like how weird. And I was like give me a full body nylon suit. And he's like what? And I'm like it's on Amazon, it's just on Amazon. And then this thing is wild. You crawl in through the neck hole and you think you're not gonna fit. It's like Spanx, but it's you just like crawl all the way in and then you just look like a Barbie doll afterwards.
Speaker 2:So it's like those full body like yeah, body kind of thing, but so comfy.
Speaker 1:So freaking comfy. And it was great because we just had this session where I cuddled him in a full body nylon suit and this dude lost his shit. Oh, he was like this is the best fucking day and I was like, yay, let's, let's make you happy about this. Let's like, try, let's go deeper into it. I don't just have to wear it. This one way we can explore your kink and enjoy it together. And, um, I may or may not have a nylon fetish now, right, he gave you a fetish.
Speaker 2:He gave me a fetish, dude. I fucking love that. Yeah, I love. The tables have turned I fucking love that.
Speaker 2:I know that. Like for me, there was something I learned about when I got started, which is that a lot of people are into cock shaming and cock ratings and at first I was like what People pay you to do that? I was kind of blown away. But then so I like to make jokes, I like I have a sense of humor and I thought it was so fun to have the opportunity to combine this like dominatrix work with a sense of humor that people really enjoyed. Where it was like you could say something kind of terrible. It's kind of like you're roasting their dick, Right.
Speaker 2:Like that was sort of how I approached it and I thought it was really fun.
Speaker 1:And I didn't expect to have that kind of levity in Dominatrix work I was expecting oh my, God, the best times I've had in sessions is when we're doing a serious scene but like, of course, we've built so much trust and rapport that I'll just say whatever stupid thing that comes up to my head and we we have to stop the scene for a solid five minutes because he's laughing. I'm pressing my face so well, trying not to cackle because I'm not trying to like, but he's like. So one of one of the times that this happened was like I'm leaning in like his he's face down into the table because like it's an easy position for um, an easy and comfortable starter position for new guests, and I'm just like dragging my sharp nails on his back. He's getting the shivers and I like lean in close to his ear and I'm like you ready for me to take your behind. Fuck, sorry, I can't. I can't even keep a straight face now.
Speaker 2:But like oh my God.
Speaker 1:Wow, nice, fuck, sorry, I can't. I can't even keep a straight face now, but like, oh my god, wow nice. So now, whenever I I can't not use that joke now I um I try not to do it in the middle of the session, I'll do it in the beginning, when we're just like um, talking consent and stuff. It was like so this is gonna be our first real session, I'll be taking your behind. It provides that levity that allows us to be comfortable with each other because they're being so vulnerable with us.
Speaker 2:So vulnerable. Totally, I agree, I feel like one thing at first I thought I had to be super serious all the time and then I was tired of being serious. It's exhausting. So then I was cracking jokes all the time and I found most of the time they appreciated the jokes and I learned like when to and when not to.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm sure I could still refine that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, they're being so fucking vulnerable that if you can give a little bit of levity, it's such a relief, I think, to everybody, to both sides, to have a little bit of lightness brought into it.
Speaker 1:And God forbid, they're so serious because I've had guests who I'm like I might not be the right fit for you and I do not take offense to that because I love having jokes. I like laughing during my sessions. Yes, there is a period of time in which I will be absolutely very serious and involved, but as we're ramping up, as we're building a rapport, I want them to know that they're going to get my authentic the authentic.
Speaker 2:Val and authentic Val, talk shit.
Speaker 1:I'm really going to be here with you, and that includes a little bit of shit talking yeah, and like if I hid that part of myself, I felt like I feel like it wouldn't be truly authentic to who I am as a person and as a provider.
Speaker 2:And then, when you're not being authentic, the work is exhausting. Oh my God, yeah, you can just be yourself. It's like time fucking flies. But if you're not being authentic, it's just like oh my God yeah.
Speaker 1:And then like how I I like to think that they know when we're being authentic, but do they know when we're not? I feel like they do so like as soon as I feel that vibe, I have a talk with them. I've had this talk with a handful of guests now where it's not a complete drop, because that's like I care about them, I want them to be okay, I want them to have what they need, but I'm like I am not the person that can give that to you. I'm very comfortable having that talk and then I share resources with them. I'm like here are other providers, here are websites or resources in which you can find others that might be a better fit for you, because I do want the best for them and if I'm not the best for them, then I don't want them wasting their time or resources with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Yep, that makes sense, and it's again like when you can be yourself in the sessions. Then it's a lot less, it doesn't feel as much like work.
Speaker 1:I'm also really lucky. I will acknowledge the fact that over the three years I have managed to manage my finances so that I have runway, I feel comfortable, and that now I work a lot for the craft of it. So I'm not living month to month, like I know many sex workers struggle with, because how do you manage your finances when it's all cash?
Speaker 1:right um but um. My experience in corporate and corporate finances have helped me with that part of my business. So when I don't feel like I'm having a good time or if I'm too tired, I can step back. I can make sure that all my sessions are good for me, good for Val, and I know that's a privilege.
Speaker 2:It is but it's a privilege that you've worked hard to create, yeah for sure. So I'm curious. We've talked a lot about the fun. I'm curious for you what are the downsides that you've experienced in being a dom?
Speaker 1:Ooh, yeah, there, there's definitely downsides. Most people would think it's safety, and I agree with them. But personally, if you're asking me directly, right, it's the emotional labor Because, like, even if I'm having a time which like 80 to 90 percent of the time and who can say that about their jobs? Right, who likes their job most of the time? I like folding my sheets, I love the like doing laundry, I love doing my books. I'm like I'm going to do my books today, like I get excited, except for paying the taxes. That's not fun.
Speaker 1:But the emotional labor is, I find, one of the most insidious aspects of this job, because, even if you're having a good time, you're still holding like I'm still holding space for people. I am still holding the memories of their pain, of their fear, of their insecurities, and I hold that for them and I help dispel it. But that takes so much out of me, especially if I'm truly caring about them, if I truly show them my love, if I show them that they are not alone and to be patient as they process, as they repeat the same thoughts over and over again, because most people take dozens of times to go through a thought or a painful subject before they can really fully process all of it and, as someone who can't hear things twice without getting stressed out, like that is the stressful part for me. I'm like we talked about this already. Yeah, let's talk about it again.
Speaker 1:So, and unlike physical exhaustion, where you can feel the muscle ache, emotional exhaustion is like oh, it's harder to wake up today. Oh, like I feel a little sluggish, but it's not muscles, it's just like oh, I can't sleep right now. Why can't I sleep? My life is going well, but their lives aren't going well. I'm thinking about what's going on in their lives. I'm thinking about, because people share such intimate things with me, the amount of my clients that have chronic illness or, um, don't have much more time, um, I actually get a decent amount of those people and they share that with me and I hold that for them and I can't share with anyone because I do believe in discretion.
Speaker 1:So, like, like, whatever clients tell me, I keep it to myself. I become a confidant for them, yeah, and it's such a big responsibility and I'm grateful for it. But I know that I need to take so much time for myself, like taking sabbaticals, taking long weeks just to be alone, because if I don't like my body shuts down from that emotional labor, like my brain fog gets really heavy, like I can't lift my hands and people are like, oh, what's wrong. Like your muscles work fine. You're like I'll go to the doctor and say everything works fine. But that emotional pain can't be measured by an x-ray. It's just that you keep it in your heart, and I like to think I have a pretty big heart yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, you must, if you're able to hold enough of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not a genetic anomaly, just a medical mystery yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:so I think that is very true. I think you have definitely had longer lasting and more connected experiences with clients than I ever did. Hands down, I will say to me it's so much more work than it seems like it is, it's just a lot more work than it seems like it would.
Speaker 1:be Well, online is a lot.
Speaker 2:It is, it's its own thing. Yeah, it's like a constant blitz and like you have to be like really fast and rapid with like your response and like your ability to create a fantasy for them and like to get things kicked off. And that is that's your creative force, that's your creative energy, that you have to like put forth and have out there all the time, that you have to like put forth and have out there all the time. And I found myself trying to systemize it, which I did to some. To some you know're saying oh, this is what she's providing, because, like I, tend to provide softer DOM or in FBSM.
Speaker 1:My rates are on the higher end and they're like she's not even doing like full escorting and she's charging as much as escorts and I'm like, but it's a bespoke experience, like you're not just here for physicality, you're here for emotional, you're here for mental simulation. Yeah, um, you're here to be remembered. You're not a revolving, it's not a revolving door. I remember everyone who comes to see me, whereas online I, you, you're. It sounds like you're providing them a bespoke experience, but it's so hard to charge that price.
Speaker 2:You can't. Yeah, they won't do it. Hey, ps, you should pay me more because la, la, la, la. I mean you hope that you get tipped more and stuff, but oh my god you know, I mean that part of it was hard, just trying to have the creative energy to do that. And then the other thing for me, because the kind of doming I was doing was like full glam so I had to be full glam anytime that I was doing it, which I am more like.
Speaker 2:Most days of the week I don't wear makeup and my hair is in a ponytail, like for sure, and so having to get all done up like that was sort of a pain in the ass. How long did it take you? Um, you know I've gotten better at it, so it used to take an hour and a half. Oh, yeah, yeah, to do like full hair and makeup, like full hair and makeup, and now I can do it in an hour wait, but an hour and a half of prep and then how many hours of sesh would you have?
Speaker 1:um like three ish okay, okay, so it was, so you would try to block it. Yeah, I would try to block it for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because otherwise it wouldn't be worth the prep time yeah yeah, yeah, but I would do. I would do, um, I would do the prep, I would do my own like photo shoots and video shoots on my own before going online, and then I would go online. Yeah, so I could get as much out of that one hair makeup as possible, but that part of it was it's kind of a pain in the butt because that's usually a full team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, I've heard that some high-end escorts will actually have a team and they'll hire makeup artists and hair people for before their days their long work days and they'll try to cram everything into one day it makes sense they'll work only two or three days um, whereas how many days a week were you working for online? Two or three a week, yeah that's all you can do if you're doing that much prep.
Speaker 2:Exactly Because it's just too much work, because I was busy as fuck doing other things as well. So yeah, you busy, yeah Me. Who me you Us.
Speaker 1:Look at us. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think there's actually something interesting to talk about here, which is something that is called the hierarchy, which is the hierarchy of sex workers, and we were talking perceived the way that, val, that you put. It was their perceived agency, which I think is.
Speaker 1:That's how I perceive it, that's how I rank, but I think the more common way is status Is status or value, value.
Speaker 2:The intent is we use your agency to determine your value. We use your agency to determine your value. So we have everything from, I think, the highest end girlfriend experience, escorts all the way down to Do you think they have high agency though. You know, I think it really depends, I think it depends on not just I mean, a lot of them work independently.
Speaker 1:So in one sense, yes, but it's possible to work independently and not have agency. Yeah, For sure. I a lot of sugar babies don't realize that that's taxable income after a certain amount. It is not a gift, it is income. Ten thousand dollars, yep, that's the limit. More from your parents, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, daddy, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's should we just start? So how do we want to rank it? Yeah? So, we kind of talked a little bit about this, but I think what's most interesting to me is the need to rank it, but that we do have.
Speaker 1:I can go into why I need to. Yeah, tell me yeah, so I have one practice right. However, they are very two different sides of the same coin, where the FBSM is my very soft side and then my domino side is the one where, once I've built enough trust, they can flip that coin to that other side and see that darkness that I want to share with them. But they have to earn that Because for me, that like intense power side can consume me and can consume others. I've seen it happen. I've seen it in my personal life, so I am very controlled about it professionally in my personal life, so I am very controlled about it professionally and when I share my sex work with others. When I mentioned FBSM, when I first started mentioning it, I noticed that there was a lot of stigma, not stigma judgment, mostly because I was Asian. Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:So, by the way, fbsm is full body sensual massage. That's what we're referring to.
Speaker 1:And when Asians are associated with massage or erotic massage, people think of parlors, those massage parlors and a strip mall, and that is absolutely a valid form of sex work massage parlors and a strip mall and that is absolutely a valid form of sex work. But that was not my style of sex work. But because of my race, I was immediately relegated to like oh, that's what you do. Which parlor do you work at?
Speaker 1:and it's like um, I've worked really hard to have my own like high-end Bellevue apartment and craft this website and this persona. And then to just immediately be judged like that was so painful and just a gut punch. So I started introducing myself as my other role, first Domina, and the respect was there. I didn't have to explain further. I was like you, domina. At first they wouldn't believe, because I tend to be a bubb person in like wear a lot of pinks in my personal life.
Speaker 1:Um, so the the main uh judgment was you, but you're so tiny and then I would like um, do something dark to them or like pull their hair and just hold them the right way, and they're like, okay, yeah, okay, you could dom me, mommy. And I was like you'll get an invoice later. But that I felt. I personally felt that judgment doing the same exact work, they're the same, it's the same practice and yet just that title shift was an immediate judgment shift in peers or other providers or other providers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know I will say like again, I have a lot less experience than you do, but when I was doing online Dom work and I was very open about it with with friends and and my community um you know, I was like support your local sex worker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh God, did our friends ever see you?
Speaker 2:Uh, certainly oh wow, in some ways, yes, yeah, but I did not really encounter what I perceived to be disrespect for it. I think sometimes there was people being surprised and that, but it did seem to be something that garnered respect, which I wasn't actually expecting, necessarily, when I got started, and so I'm thankful that I was lucky enough to have something that I specialize in that people give more respect to, but I just as well could have been someone who specializes in other things that don't get as much respect yeah, um, and what's important, though, is you've had that experience as a dom of getting that respect, but you still believe that it's your responsibility to share this knowledge with others and to raise that level of respect for all sex workers.
Speaker 1:Look down on sex workers, oh yeah, and it's like why are we doing this? We're in the same boat. Like some of us might be like at the bow, some of us might be lower, like the Titanic, but we're on the same boat. If this boat crashes, if laws pass that are not helpful to us, if we continue to be stigmatized, if we continue to be targeted by very hurtful people I don't want to go too dark, but yeah, if we are not supporting each other, who's going to support us?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think it just comes from shame. I think that if you're doing sex work and you have a deep sense of shame about it, what will help buoy you through that shame is the belief that what you're doing is better than somebody else. Oh God, yeah, and so it's really tempting to to fall into that. Well, I'm just a sugar baby. That's not sex work, it's absolutely.
Speaker 1:Oh, I do want to mention that little tidbit that we we thought that stay at home housewife can be a form of sex work housewife can be a form of sex work.
Speaker 2:Can absolutely be a form of sex work.
Speaker 1:Can corroborate as a former stay-at-home housewife yeah, that was work. It was not fun.
Speaker 2:It can totally be. So many things can be sex work, and I think it's interesting when we're trying to split hairs and rank above or below others. It's really the best for everybody involved if we all just are a united front and say that the bottom line is fucking bodily autonomy, this is my body, I get to do with it what I want If that means I make a profit off of it. It means I make a profit off of it and that that is my fucking right. And that is what all sex workers have in common from everything from high end escort to the people walking the streets, to the sugar babies to the professional dominatrixes is to say this is my body and I have the right to make money off of it. And God knows we do.
Speaker 1:Yes, because how are we any different? How is selling time with touches with me different than a construction worker selling time of carrying heavy things? I agree.
Speaker 2:Exactly, it's the same thing. It's physical labor. Your physical body is being exploited to make money. It's exactly the same thing. I think that's. It's just a different part. Yeah, it's just a different. It's just a different part. But I think that is a huge thing, that it really is important for us to be mindful of not ranking different kinds of sex work against each other, so not pitting sex workers against each other.
Speaker 2:Because even if you are a sex worker and you're not doing it yourself, if you're outside of the field and you're doing it and you're saying, well, my friend's a sex worker, well, she's not one of those, but she's, you know, this kind, this fancy kind, what?
Speaker 1:do they call them Pick me girls yeah. I guess, so yeah, I keep hearing about this and I keep seeing it on my feeds. Is it a girl or a person that wants to be chosen or wants to be have attention by putting down other people? Is that a pick me, I guess so.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay. Yeah, that's my understanding, because I've heard boys called pick me girl.
Speaker 1:I was like oh okay, you tell them.
Speaker 2:Sis, I don't know what it means, I can't keep up with the Gen Zs, but I'm doing my best, yeah, I want to talk a little bit about how this sex work, just a little bit about how this sex work interacts with our personal sex life. Oh okay, and For me one thing that changed after doing online dominatrix work was that it cheapened male sexual attention dramatically for me.
Speaker 1:In a good way or a bad way.
Speaker 2:In an absolutely empowering.
Speaker 1:I don't fucking care anymore way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just became something that is like a faucet that you can turn on or off, and you always kind of knew that, just as a person living in this world.
Speaker 1:But I think it was so much more clear doing the online sex work Because we're brainwashed to think that it's necessary for our survival.
Speaker 2:We're brainwashed to think that it's a scarce resource, and it's not.
Speaker 1:The streets are littered with dicks. Yes, the streets are literally littered with dicks.
Speaker 2:Male attention is not a scarce resource. Literally, literally. Male attention is not a scarce resource. You do not need to be like like changing the way that you live for it, bending yourself over for it, literally or figuratively, if you don't want to yeah, and you can cut that out mid-stroke.
Speaker 2:yeah, you can cut it out mid-stroke, as we've discussed previously. You can stop mid-stroke. Um, but I did notice that, like my, how much I cared about presenting super sexy when I would go to a party changed, yes, after doing this work, because I was like whatever, if I want that kind of attention, I know how to get it.
Speaker 1:I have never worn less makeup than starting this practice. Yes, I am glammed up. However it's for the camera and for moi and for our wonderful host here, I want it to be pretty for her. But after my second year actually, no after I returned from my sabbatical after six months of not wearing any makeup while in the jungle because you just can't. You can't wear makeup in Costa Rica yeah, you look gnarly. Albeit, I did tattoo eyebrows. Now on Chef's.
Speaker 2:Kiss Very happy about this decision thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:I have like six hairs to my name, um, but when I came back from my sabbatical, I tried this, this crazy thing, out. I just didn't wear makeup for my sessions because it was all my regulars. When I first came back, I didn't see anyone new. I was just like I'm gonna work on the wait list and make sure that all my loyal fans are the ones that, like I shower with my time and availability. Um, and if anything, they were like you look great. You look so tan because I stopped whitewashing myself um, it's a.
Speaker 1:Filipino thing, um, and I felt so confident with my own face. It was wild. I had never thought I could experience that working in sex work because, as like a former stripper, you had to do your makeup. The club almost demanded if you didn't wear makeup you would get like booted back into the dressing room and other people would force makeup on you Because we didn't have agency as strippers. Makeup on you because we didn't have agency as strippers, but as a personal, like a solo provider. Boy, howdy, can I finally do my face the way I want to, as god intended, with sunscreen and, um, maybe some chapstick?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, that's so cool, I think. Yeah, that's just, it's. There's something really empowering about really truly knowing it's not a scarce resource to get male attention and you know how to get it when you want it and if you don't necessarily want it or you're already getting it for other reasons. You don't have to participate in all the decorative actions, yes, which I enjoy, yeah it's still fun, but not all the time.
Speaker 1:I don't want to have to do it. Yes, it's the have to do it that makes it painful, and also that learning that it's so much other stuff that we provide. That's actually getting that male attention, like when you realize it was your personality, your strong, domineering personality, and your take no shit attitude. That's what was really attractive to them. Wow, you can lean into it.
Speaker 2:I can do that without wearing a corset.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you to them wow, you can lean into it, I can do that without wearing a corset. Yeah, and you didn't have to be a soft girl. He was like oh, is this okay for you? Is this okay for you? No, it's okay for me. So we're gonna do it this way. Yeah, boy, howdy is that nice I know it is so nice.
Speaker 2:It really is. Yeah, it's a huge.
Speaker 1:I think that's like hugely, like awesome and interesting unexpected and I think it helps that we're surrounding ourselves with these women who have learned this lesson, because it is a long journey it is.
Speaker 1:It's um, and I've been surrounded, like, with women who were insecure, who depended on the attention to survive.
Speaker 1:As a former serviceman wife, I was surrounded by women whose livelihoods were based on their husband's livelihoods, and the insecurity and the cutting of other women was rampant and almost like mandatory.
Speaker 1:To be part of some of those groups and I don't know if it was just my group, because, of course, I haven't seen every but when those women didn't have agency, when they didn't have their own income, when they felt so powerless, I have never experienced as much hate and anger than in those times. And with those people Interesting, yeah, than in those times. And with those people interesting, yeah, because even if someone doesn't have a lot of money, if they feel like they have control over their life, um, they can make the best of what they have. But if, where you live, who you spend time with, how many kids you have are dependent on another person in 2020, yeah, that's bananas, it is yeah, yeah, because, like, you're getting all this media saying oh, you can be a strong, independent woman, you can have it all, you can work, you can have kids, you can do everything, but if you're not doing it, what does that say about you?
Speaker 2:Right, right. And, by the way, who wants to do everything? Who wants to do everything? No, I don't. I think it's bullshit. Having it all is the most bullshit idea that has ever been sold to women in the fucking world, but we can talk about that on another podcast. But I'm curious. So, in terms of doing sex work and having partners, how have you been able to figure out if your partners were going to be accepting or like if this was something that you could broach with?
Speaker 1:them. So I've only been doing this for three years. I haven't had many partners that I've had the opportunity to share this with. When I first started, it was terrifying. I was like, oh, this is a red flag for me. This is going to be a detraction of my value as a partner. Growing up in monogamous cultures in the Philippines, where relationships aren't recognized until it's a marriage Like my parents will not recognize a boyfriend. Oh, interesting, yeah, so even they didn't even recognize my husband. I'm going to call that, like this guy.
Speaker 1:And I was like yeah, but so having that, having those relationships not be recognized, made me feel like I had to do so much more to make it myself valuable to those partnerships so that we could push to the next level. Like I didn't want to get stuck in just boyfriend, girlfriend, because then I wouldn't, it wouldn't be a real relationship in my world. So I hit it, or like it would take me a while to share it. And I did have a partner who wasn't proud of it, um, and that hurt. Um, it's not that they didn't like it, they just didn't ask questions. They um weren't very curious about it. Um, it was my business. It was like a don't ask, don't tell kind of experience which we all know it hurts a breeding ground for shame, yeah and I felt ashamed about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right. Like, looking like that is what I felt. Um, and then, over time, as my confidence grew, so did, um, their uh discomfort around the topic, and they were able to share it more with the people in their lives. Um, and then, ergo, I felt better, but that was bananas, that I had to rely on someone else feeling comfortable, to feel more comfortable. Um, so now I'm just like first or second date. It's like so I'm a sex worker. Hi, here's my website, here's my Instagram.
Speaker 1:And then most of the responses have been oh, super cool, super cool, super cool, yeah, and some of them even offer to help. Like I had a partner help me, like, go over questions. Today I had another partner go over marketing stuff. I have many partners offering hey, do you need help making content? I'm like eat a bag, are you actually going to do the work or are you just going to lay there? Oh, you want to lay there? Thanks for all the help, bruh. Yeah, because they don't know how much like lighting and like camera work does. And I'm like dude, it's not going to be fun for you. I'm telling you right now, um, and what's it called? Yeah, the overwhelming support I've had from current partners, because I feel confident in it. They're able to accept it better and like the stigma is starting to fade, at least in our local area in Seattle, bellevue area I don't know about Bellevue but maybe.
Speaker 1:Seattle At least Seattle, and I think it's. I became OK with my practice. And that was what changed it for my partners. I became okay with my practice and that was what changed it for my partners, because when I first revealed it to that first partner who wasn't comfortable, I can. I can recognize that I wasn't comfortable yet, so how could they feel comfortable?
Speaker 2:yeah, and like how you are going to explain it to them and how you're going to portray it to them is going to be affected by your own comfort level with it, exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I had this elaborate backstory for what my real job was, and now I don't even know how to say that backstory anymore, because I just tell people what I do. I forgot, yeah, like.
Speaker 1:I only have so many brain cells left. Ok, they're like bing bong, bing bong. They got there, they're doing their best and I just I can't lie anymore. It's actually really hard for me to lie these days. Yeah, because, um, that takes so much extra effort, it's a lot of energy, so much, and it's not fun. Yeah, yeah, because then you get caught in the lie. The fear is there and the excitement, I think, is because, um, I used to lie a lot more, uh, more like covering stuff up, not like outright lie, but I would cover stuff up because then I could make a persona or I could make a story about myself that I felt like I could be proud of, when in reality I could have just been proud of myself and if they rejected your persona, they weren't rejecting you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's a, that's a really big one.
Speaker 1:It's safer, but it's so much worse. It's so much worse to live behind that mask, and now I see myself as multifaceted rather than wearing multiple masks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, oh, I like that. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. I think that makes sense. I think I'm curious.
Speaker 1:What do you wish were different about sex work? Is this like the starter for the next? Yeah, this is the lead-in for the next two hours. Yep, exactly, I will say that, of course, many of my peers all agree that it needs to be decriminalized. It's been decriminalized in other countries. It's worked out. They've decriminalized weed, at least statewide for the good ones, and look how much income that brought the states. Could you imagine how much like income it could bring if sex workers could report their income, actually have a steady paycheck, afford to rent apartments? So one of the hardest things for me was like yeah, I report most of my income because I have to be able to afford to live in bellevue, you have to fill out applications, yeah, and like even my accountant was just like why are you paying this much? And I was like because it's the right thing to do. And then she laughed in my face and then I laughed and then, and then the stack of cash left content to educate people without feeling like that was alone illegal. Then maybe we could really change not only the sex workers experience but the clients experience.
Speaker 1:I've had so many guests come to me and say how they felt scared and unsafe to go to providers and the reason why they would choose me is because one I have a legitimate website, wwwvaladroachcom, and because I would post so much on my Instagram Valadroach and they could see that I was a real person, that I was working for myself and that I emphasized connection over, just like a cut and dry session, and that made it safe for them to see me. And they would tell me these horror stories of seeing, of going somewhere, expecting to see one person, seeing someone else going somewhere, seeing the pimp Going somewhere, feeling unsafe to leave their car. Yeah, because a lot of these sex workers have to rent out of the shadiest hotels. Like there are forums where they say this hotel doesn't have cameras. How fucking unsafe is that? Like the fact that they feel like that's a boon for their practice, rather than I'm like, okay, how many cameras can I install in like 2000 square feet? Oh, this one can see straight into your butthole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, but yeah, if, and that I just went on a major tangent. But so many benefits if it was decriminalized. Just so many good things for so many good people. And the people who don't want it decriminalized I want to know what their logical reasons are. You know it's. Where are they at this point in time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's also an important point to make that, at least for me, there's harm reduction in sex work and harm reduction in drug use, and there's a really important differentiation and we've sort of gotten it reversed in the societies that have been more allowing which is that what you need to do is decriminalize sex work but legalize drugs, because legalization means that there's a governing body potentially over your body if sex work is legalized, versus decriminalizing it, but drugs. We need clean supplies of drugs so that people have safe things that they're putting in their bodies, and that's a very different thing and that needs to be regulated, and so decriminalizing sex work is absolutely the answer, in my opinion. I think that it's really important for sex workers to feel and be protected under the law.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it saves time for the police force. Why are they focusing on taking down individual practitioners? Absolutely, take down the exploitative rings that are harming actual individuals, for sure. However, why would they waste time on the Johns who just need a hug or some cuddles and touch? There's other things we need to be worried about.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that you mentioned drug use, because that's another thing that I think is very related to sex work. It is very easy to get lost in drugs or substances while doing sex work and they're very correlated, I believe. Like when I was a stripper, when I first auditioned I was 20 years old and I was so nervous to get up on that stage and, um, the owner said, hey, would you like a shot of vodka to feel more comfortable? And I said, no, I'm, I'm just a baby. Yeah, um, because like I drove myself there, I had to drive back. I hadn't really drank that much yet I was like, okay, sex work isn't scary for me, but drinking sex work, that's crazy. Why are you just offering this for me? And like she was like trying to justify, like, oh, they all do it, like for their first editions, it helps you loosen up. And then they also offered free.
Speaker 1:Many of the clubs I worked out offered free or reduced drink prices for the dancers or they'd be in the bathroom smoking weed. And there is nothing wrong with enjoying and relaxing, but we were working Right. Enjoying and relaxing, but we were working right. But it's like normalized that if a sex worker is working, they can be as inebriated as they want, whereas for me I will try and never be like if I um smoke the joint before the in the early in the day and I have a late night session. That's about as inebriated as I'll be. Yeah, because for me to not be fully present in a session I feel like is a disservice to my guests and a disservice to myself because I put myself at higher risk. But how many sex workers are using substances so that they can get through their day?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and I mean honestly how many not sex workers, how many just people? We just did a podcast on sex and substances and it's remarkable how many of us are using substances, especially alcohol, just to get through sex in a normal everyday life, much less when it's part of your job. Yeah, so I think that the substance use part is definitely another conversation, but it's huge and important. Part is definitely another conversation, but it's huge and important. Um, I think another thing like that I wish were different is that for online work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, platforms are so exploitative oh my gosh, they charge so much fucking money. Yeah, it's like 40 to 60 percent of your take goes to the company and that's all fine at the very beginning, when you're just getting new clients. But when you have regulars, yeah, and you're like wait, so every time that they come back to me to see me, I'm paying you 60 percent. So I mean, onlyfans has the best rates, but OnlyFans doesn't advertise for you at all. So you have to do 100 percent of your own marketing. It doesn't like show up as, like he suggested people. They have like a limited amount of that that they do, but for the most part, you have to do 100% of your own.
Speaker 1:Like on other platforms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you have to be on Twitter.
Speaker 1:You have to be all around advertising yourself. They took down the sex worker Twitter, didn't they? Did they? I thought so I didn't know that. Oh, I know they've been like cracking down on a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that. I know they've been like cracking down on a lot of stuff like reasonable and fair for the actual value that they're offering, because listen, it's 2024 like webcams are not new technology. None of this shit is new technology. Live streaming is not new technology. None of this stuff should be expensive. The security involved also shouldn't be expensive, considering how minimal it actually is when you experience what they're doing. Um, so that's you explored it? Yourself um a little bit, uh, a little bit, uh, a little bit I have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how, how accessible was it for you? Because you're pretty tech savvy, you pretty, you know like.
Speaker 2:I think. Here's what I think. I think that if you could get quality tech workers on board for a project that involves sex work, you could do it very easily and very quickly. I think the problem is there's so much stigma that people don't want to say that they worked for a camming platform or a sex work platform.
Speaker 1:Do you think that it should be one platform that many providers can, or do you think provider or cameras should start figuring out how to make their own websites?
Speaker 2:the more that they can do it themselves, I think, the better. Yes, because these companies really are not offering much. They really are not um the. The challenge of that is marketing, so I think what you would need is unified marketing because it sounds like you're marketing already. Yeah, but you could. You could have separate platforms and unified marketing. You don't have to own the actual interaction.
Speaker 1:You know to own the marketing, but that's just a random thought a website, but I use it for forums and for sharing information and reviews of people. God forbid, I have actual stuff to sell on it. Yeah, like I will say that I think in-person meetings, while scarier, is um less work intensive yeah, it could be.
Speaker 2:It's like higher risk but less work intensive.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, so there's that balance in sex work that people have to find. Oh, did we want to talk about how sex work doesn't really have to include sex?
Speaker 2:Oh, I think that's really important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd like to close on that. Yeah, unless you want to talk about more?
Speaker 2:I'll just briefly say I did sex work and never had sex with anybody for yeah, for money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I really want to emphasize is that sex work does not mean that you need to have fluid exchange. It doesn't mean that you Penetration. Penetration yeah. Sex work, like how? How do we want to define it? Because, like, help me with this it's work that involves a sexual nature? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Work of a sexual nature. I think is is the broadest and most accurate way to define it. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Because, like I actually just recently, like literally right before coming here, as I was talking over this interview, I didn't realize my one of my partners didn't know I didn't have intercourse with clients. I was like, yeah, what do you mean? You don't know that. I thought I told you what I do and he was like, yeah, but you never know. And I was like, what do you mean? You never? I told you dude. I told you, dude, yeah, look at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but like this was someone very close to me, someone who listens actually really well, but it I don't think that he didn't hear or didn't understand out of um, maliciousness, I think it was. It's a genuine fear that people have, or not fear, but assumption that they make powerful, yeah, and especially from a romantic partner. Right, yeah, they need to be prepared. They need to, as much as they can accept me for who I am and love me for who I am. It doesn't mean that they can't, they won't take precautions to be safe in their own lives and I want that for them. That's why I never want to hold back about who I am and what I do. Right, so I want them to do their own risk assessments. I do right because I want them to do their own risk assessments.
Speaker 1:Um, but the fact that someone that close to me, that educated, that, uh, that listens that well, didn't know that I don't have penetration for myself, like, like I'm taking behind men's for sure, I'm collecting them left and right, but that doesn't mean that I have to take it Like that's not, like that's not what I've chosen to do with sex work and I'm not disparaging anyone who does. But if we can talk about it more and make sex work more accessible, because there are people who need to go into this line of work because maybe they need the finances and they don't have opportunities for them, but they don't have to go straight to escorting if that's not right for their body, if that's not right for their emotional capacity, because that escorting does take a lot, and maybe they could start with FBSM. Maybe they can enter into DOMing, not fin DOMing. That's not real. Look me in.
Speaker 1:The Stop asking me about fin DOMing, all y'all. What is that? It's not real. Like 0.0001% are into fin DOMing. Get out of my face. It's a PSA. I just need people to stop asking about fin-doming, yeah.
Speaker 2:I get it. Wait, have you had?
Speaker 1:that. Oh yeah, have people asked you about fin-doming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was suggested. It's like this is what you should be doing. This is the thing, and it's like well, okay.
Speaker 1:First of all, ethics is like a fucking huge question when it comes to fin doming and yeah, I've actually declined guests because I'm like, hey, I actually know about your financial situation right now, let's take a breather. Yeah, I'd rather you keep your house and then see me when you're feeling better and doing better, like I'll text an email to keep you updated. You can look at my Instagram and stuff, but, dude, don't take out a second mortgage to see me. I'm not comfortable with that. I am not comfortable with that. And if people are OK, but maybe, like, look into your ethical boundaries and know at what point fin doming might not be comfortable for you anymore boundaries and know at what point fin doming might not be comfortable for you anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I just I've thought it through a lot. I watched a documentary about it for this gal in portland who does it, um, and, and she gave a talk about it as well, and, um, she has some lines that she arbitrarily draws about what is or isn't okay.
Speaker 1:Um, I don't think it's that easy, or that's not easy and, if anything, sometimes that work is way more than the work we're doing. Oh, yeah, yeah, because to get to that stage requires such a building of trust there, like, the people who are ready to just throw wads of cash are usually the people who need to throw wads of cash and I'm not saying it's like everyone, but sometimes, like if you need to pay someone to pay attention to you in that regard, because they're just genuinely not enjoying their time with you, right, maybe that experience is not going to be fun for you as a provider.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's true. True. I think finn doming is actually that's worthy of its own episode.
Speaker 1:It's a fascinating subject do you know any finn domers?
Speaker 2:like you said you, I do I do know a secondhand connection with somebody who's a big player in that scene and I'm super curious.
Speaker 1:I want to know so bad I do too, because they feel like mythical unicorns to me they do feel like mythical unicorns and I still don't understand.
Speaker 2:Even having had watched her talk and and watching her talk through her process for the ethics, I still it doesn't quite calculate to me but, yeah, anyways all right well, we gotta wrap up. We could go on for three more hours.
Speaker 1:This room is really hotating like a sex worker in church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, sweating like a sex worker in church. All right, Thank you so much everybody for listening, I hope you enjoyed this and I'm sure that we'll be picking up this conversation again later. All right, kisses. Thank you for listening to the Juicy Sex Podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, kindly click, like and subscribe. It really helps us get the word out and we'll see you next time.