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The Joosi Sex Podcast
Welcome to the Joosi Sex Podcast with me, Alisa Eddy. I'm the CEO of Joosi Sexual Wellness, and my friends and I discuss the intersection of sexuality and everything else that matters in life! Here at The Joosi Sex Podcast, we believe adult sexuality is a much more enjoyable adventure when approached with curiosity, playfulness, and always, enthusiastic consent.
The Joosi Sex Podcast
Desire & Depression: Navigating Sex & Mental Health
Can depression really sabotage your sex life and relationships? Unpack the eye-opening truths behind this connection in our latest episode. We begin by exploring a 2021 study revealing a shockingly high occurrence of sexual dysfunction among those battling major depressive disorder. Learn how symptoms like anhedonia, low self-esteem, and irritability can extinguish sexual desire, and discover the paradox of antidepressants, which can sometimes make things worse. We'll discuss strategies to counteract these side effects, such as tweaking dosages or opting for alternatives like Wellbutrin, and emphasize the vital role of empathy and understanding from partners.
Moving beyond the bedroom, we scrutinize how depression impacts memory and perception, causing past experiences to appear darker than they were. Hear personal stories about the relief gained from understanding concepts like confabulation and learned helplessness. We'll shed light on the neurological underpinnings, focusing on the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex and its importance in reward processing. This episode doesn't just stop at explanations—we delve into comprehensive treatments like therapy, medication, ketamine, and transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) that offer a path to restoring brain function and reclaiming life. Tune in to deepen your compassion and awareness for those navigating the labyrinth of depression.
All of the medications I've been on have caused sexual side effects, except for Welbutrin, which didn't. But, literally every single other one has like sapped my sex drive, or with Prozac, which I was on for only like 10 days, oh wow.
Speaker 2:I had no tolerance. Prozac Nation didn't get her.
Speaker 1:No, I was like fucking get me off this shit. Didn't get her. No, I was like fucking get me off this shit. Um, it made me unable to have an orgasm, so I would get like done really close yeah, so close and be like trying and trying and trying.
Speaker 2:No one wants to be edged for the rest of their life, that's what it was.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, no, yeah. And then I felt this we I also felt like this weird tension, like like clutching my fists and clutching my jaw. And I was like is that because the orgasms can't come out?
Speaker 2:That's just like a tense bomb. It's like when you're listening to a really good song and it's about to drop. It's about to drop and then just goes back up again. You're like what Damn it. Come on, give me a break here.
Speaker 1:I want to bust a move, yeah, so yeah, I wasn't a big fan of that one. Welcome to the Juicy Sex Podcast, where my friends and I have raw, unfiltered and hilarious conversations about all things sex. I'm Alisa Eddy, the founder and CEO of Juicy Sexual Wellness, where we try the toys and help you find the right one for you. Now on to the podcast. Today we're talking about depression and sex and how those two things interact and the challenges that that involves. I'm here with my special guest, jen. Hello, jen, Happy to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we're going to talk about this depression talk. We're going to make it fun. We always do, yeah, so we're gonna talk this depression talk. We're gonna make it fun, we always do, um, yeah, so we're not just talking about sex and antidepressants, we're talking about sex and depression itself and, um, I think this will be a good educational experience yeah yeah I definitely am looking forward to learning because I think, you know, it's affecting me personally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's a lot to learn. But before we get into our heavy shit, we're going to talk a little bit about our week. Yeah, so, yeah. So our special guest, jen, is also a pilot, and last week she took me up on a flight over the city of Seattle in a little airplane, and it was so fucking cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, how did you feel when you were up there?
Speaker 1:It felt like it felt weird, Like I was almost like I was spying on people, but in a good way.
Speaker 2:It's always a weird perspective because things look so small they do, and you don't realize how tiny they look, until you're in a tiny airplane and I told you, I warned you, you're going to feel everything, yeah, yeah. But it was so special to me to take you up because not like my husband, doesn't matter, but it was my first non-husband, non-pilot passenger passenger and so I was very vigilant in making sure that I gave you all the proper like pre-flight kind of rundown and everything and that it was a good day with good weather and we got really lucky we did, it was such and it was on.
Speaker 2:St Patrick's Day, so, of course, luck of the Irish.
Speaker 1:I am Irish. Yeah, it was great, it was so cool and when I was up there I was wondering how, like, like, how the cities and the people that were down there would feel about how they look from the sky.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe speaking of people's looks, I was when I was Ubering over here. Today the weather is getting a little better you know like it's it was really nice for like two weeks in a row, and now it's kind of like a little better. You know like it's. It was really nice for like two weeks in a row and now it's kind of like a little dull, kind of rainy, but it's still getting warmer, and so you start hearing birds chirping and people coming out of the woodwork with the most interesting outfits put together.
Speaker 2:It's all about layers here right. I mean, I saw a lady she was wearing like a REI windbreaker or whatever and she had like a pleated skirt on with leggings and like hiking boots. I wasn't sure what was going on there, but I'm like, all right, girl, you're trying, You're like spring is coming, you know it's very Seattle. Yeah, yeah, I feel like that is like a staple of what what the Seattle fashion is.
Speaker 1:It is like we have I mean really we.
Speaker 2:Our weather is basically a long ass fall and a long ass spring it's so true, here you get a little sun, you'll know, because you'll feel really cracked out. I know because I was like working and I was feeling so like just jittery and antsy and I was like I didn't have any coffee and I'm like what's going on? And I'm like, oh, the sun, yeah, the sun is pumping energy into me, right?
Speaker 1:now, because I have really big windows. That makes sense. Yep, so sun is new. We have people out, like you know, laying out in the sun on a 60 degree day. That's what we do in Seattle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just take it when you can.
Speaker 2:Every little bit, yeah, and weather really affects your mood too. Like people get seasonal affective disorder here, right, sad, yeah, yeah, sad, and I didn't know what sad was until I moved to Seattle. To be honest, oh, you didn't, oh, um, I just thought sad was. Just something bad happened. You felt sad, but it's like a legit thing. Like because of the lack of sun and everything through the winter and a lot of the spring, yeah, um. So I mean, yeah, it's, it's something that people need to pay attention to for sure, like people get happy lights.
Speaker 1:I know, I just actually ordered one, did you?
Speaker 2:I did. I would love to hear your review on it because it made me feel cracked out, Like I think it gave me too much energy, Like I ended up feeling almost like anxiety. But it really works for people I know some of our friends use it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, some people, you know, use it and love it. I don't know. I thought I would try it out because I've just been dragging ass, so it's at least one possible solution.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Also I need a workout.
Speaker 1:I mean, right, that's we'll talk about. We'll actually get to that. Yeah, it's, it's hard. It's hard when you're coming out of winter in the Pacific Northwest. So I want to talk a little bit about the intention today. We're talking about sex and depression, and the idea here is to help people who have depression understand and have compassion for themselves, and then to help people who don't have depression, who maybe have partners or friends who have it, develop more understanding and empathy of the experience, and that's what we're looking for. So that's our intention today. Good, yeah, so I'll talk a little bit about.
Speaker 1:You know my history I have treatment-resistant depression. So I'll talk a little bit about you know my history I have treatment-resistant depression. I have been on Welbutrin, prozac, effexor, lexapro, loveox, rexulti, vrylar, abilify, trintelix. I've been on so many things, and all the meds except for wellbutrin have caused me weight gain, which is frustrating. And then, um, I feel like I have to choose sometimes between, you know, my physical health or my mental health, and then we add in, my sexual health, yeah, right. So these are really tough tradeoffs that we're trying to navigate, but I, for me, wellbutrin is helpful, but it's not enough, and so I've been working with my psychiatrist to try and find something to add to that. That makes it enough.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I was. You know, I've been with a partner that has MDD major depressive disorder and at first was on Lexapro and it really was not working. It actually made this person feel worse, almost, because it's like a mood stabilizer more so than an activator, oh yeah, and so, through talking with friends and everything like that, got on butrin and that has been much better. But, you know, navigating some of the desire and the sex and all of that has been something new. Yeah, but the fact that this person is feeling better, yeah, is good. Yeah, it's a, it's a start that's huge.
Speaker 1:I you, when I was on lero, I didn't feel like myself. I felt really weird. Yeah, it didn't work for me. Yeah, I think I was on it for like six weeks and that was like not great.
Speaker 2:I think that's about how long my partner was on it for yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, it was a big no-go. A lot of people have good luck with it, so you know good for them. Um, for me also, all of the medications I've been on have caused sexual side effects. Um, except for welbutrin, which didn't, but literally every single other one has like sapped my sex drive. Or with prozac, which I was on for only like 10 days.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, no tolerance. Prozac Nation didn't get her.
Speaker 1:No, I was like fucking get me off this shit. It made me unable to have an orgasm, so I would get like really close, so close and be like trying and trying and trying.
Speaker 2:No one wants to be edged for the rest of their life, that's what it was oh gosh, no yeah.
Speaker 1:No one wants to be edged for the rest of their life. That's what it was oh gosh, no, yeah. And then I felt this weird. I also felt like this weird tension, like clutching my fist and clutching my jaw. And I was like is that because the orgasms can't come out?
Speaker 2:That's just like a tense bomb yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like when you're listening to a really good song and it's like it's about to to drop, it's about to drop and then just goes back up again. You're like what damn it? Come on, give me a break here, I want to bust a move, yeah. So. Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of that one, um, but uh.
Speaker 1:So part of my journey is I have a family member who has psychotic depression and I didn't know that was a thing and really none of us in the family did. And this person was having hallucinations and paranoid delusions, and I mean so compelling and realistic to the point that they were calling the police about things that they had hallucinated. Oh man, that's hard, yeah, it was really like a scary tough thing, and so, thankfully, they ended up getting, you know, I think, a year later, a full workup from a professional, you know psych analysis, like a whole day of testing. They found was it's not schizophrenia, it's not dementia? Um, what it is is it's psychotic depression, and it's from being depressed for so long and untreated that your brain starts to do some crazy stuff just to survive, just to like cope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it. It's. It's crazy. It's good that we have medication now and it's crazy how much there still is even in 2024, a stigma with mental health and and I want to say a few things about mental health care- health care in this country.
Speaker 1:This is the time.
Speaker 2:They just make it so hard. It is your brain, it's part of it's physiological it's. You know it's an ailment like any other ailment, you know, and it's OK to need help to make your brain function properly Like you're. Sometimes people's brain chemistry is off and it doesn't mean that their whole self is off. They're a great person, they deserve to be here, they deserve to be happy, like I think that that is so important and people get scared to seek help and they get scared to go on medication because of stigmas or just because it's so fucking hard. They make it so hard, you know, like I remember for my partner last year when things were really bad, I was on the phone for like four to six hours a day for a few days just trying to find the right psychiatrist, just trying to find a general practitioner that would take this person in and just at least see them and hear them, and it was just jumping through flaming hoops, no-transcript.
Speaker 1:No, A partner who will be that helpful, but B, maybe not a partner at all. Right, and we're going to talk about in a little bit how exactly what you're talking about like having the persistence to go through and make all those calls and do all those things are really hard things to do for a depressed brain. It's so hard, it's extra fucking hard. And I know I hear people talking about you know a person that they know that has depression and they'll be like why don't they just do this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you're sad person that they know that has depression, and they'll be like why don't they just do this? Yeah, because you're sad and just imagine like being really sad and being in bed and be like, yeah, I'm sad, I barely want to like live.
Speaker 1:But yeah, let me like put some effort in like call the doctor right now, like fuck that Right, exactly. And it's actually the part of their brain that anticipates rewards from their actions and the part of their brain that is executive function is really dialed down when you're depressed and so you kind of can't do these things that are basic, like make the phone calls, find the therapist. That is so hard for a depressed brain to do, especially when there's a shortage of therapists.
Speaker 2:It's really hard on the first time so you got to date therapists to find the right one and that's so much effort. So you know when someone's already feeling kind of stuck and like hopeless, like it's hard to take that step, you know, and I just feel like it should be easier for them. Yeah, I agree. I don't know what the solution is, but I agree with the problem.
Speaker 1:And I'm not here to like find years and we were great and then I moved and it was too far away. Yada, yada, yada. And ever since then I've not had really anybody for longer than six months and it's been hard because people will be in or out of a certain practice or you know, or an app or whatever. So it's hard to get that long-term treatment relationship right now.
Speaker 2:That's interesting, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so basically for me, because of my family member who had the treatment-resistant depression, I realized I shouldn't be settling for my undertreated depression, and so I started exploring more things and I was looking into TMS, which is transcranial magnetic stimulation.
Speaker 2:Oh, which, yeah, sounds really important. I know we had a couple friends do that. We have, yeah, we've had, and it's worked.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and when I first heard about this I thought it was like witchcraft, yeah, like hocus pocus like tms. I'm like you're like but it turns out it's fda approved as a treatment for depression um so like it actually works.
Speaker 2:It's's an FDA approved tin hat.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Exactly here, doctor. I'm here to hear your beeps today. Make me feel better, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the TMS I started looking into, like how does that work? What the fuck's going on? Why can't we just put magnets on someone's head? I got a fridge, I got magnets. Right, I'm like what's going on here? And so I found out the part of the brain that they target is your left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex Say that five times.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, oh my God, I'm very impressed.
Speaker 1:That's probably the only time I'll be able to say it Very good Is very much involved in mood. It's very much involved in understanding reward systems and it's very much involved in your executive function. Or LDLPFC left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex is like heavily involved with depression and that's why they focus the TMS. There is really interesting. So I started digging into what is going on with that part of the brain. Why does it matter so much for depression? And it's really interesting. So a lot of the times, people with depression, they seem stuck right. So if they could just take a certain action, or if you could just exercise, or if you could just do this or that, it would probably help things. Right. But the part of tell themselves this is an important thing to do, I'm gonna do it, is like dialed back. Yeah, literally. So it's uh, it's extra fucking hard for them to take action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's people who aren't depressed have to remember that. So when you say I've talked to my friend who's depressed, like it's been like six months, and every time we talk she says I should get a therapist, and then she doesn't have one by the time we're together the next time and it's like, well, that's because the part of her brain that would take that on is just not working. Um, so I thought that was really interesting. To just that is interesting right, it's like neurocircuitry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, um and especially yeah, yeah, and especially coming off of COVID, in regards to the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex.
Speaker 2:I wish I could help you there. Left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's this dynamic in depression that's common, which is called learned helplessness, and oh yeah, it's right, just the name sounds sad. It is sad and it originates from animal studies in the 70s. What they discovered was that when someone is exposed to something really negative that they have no control over, so they'll try things to make it go away and they can't. What happens is they stop trying and they have cognitive deficits. So after, after they're exposed to like I think it's like a low, low scale electric shock that they can't make it stop. Then they give them puzzles to solve and their brains are not working as well. Wow, yeah, so it's. It's literally fucking with your own ability to get through the situation that you're in. Wow, yeah, and so the more that your depression is related to things that were beyond your control the more that you experience that learned helplessness.
Speaker 2:How do you have you read anything about what kind of therapy they do to help mitigate that? Or just kind of like, crawl out of that rut, like because there's obviously different kinds of people get depressed for different ways and I feel like there's a lot of people that get it from things they can't control. Yeah, you know, and so I'm kind of just wondering is there something I can learn? I guess one of the things I'm wondering is, as a partner of someone who has MDD, what can I do to help them and be really proactive, proactive?
Speaker 2:and supportive, but you know, like I could always learn more, just so I can understand more and have more compassion, you know? And yeah, in these certain situations I just find it really interesting.
Speaker 1:You're finding out really interesting things about the brain and yeah, different kinds of depression there is yeah, I know, because I know for me with my depression, when it's not when I'm not treated um, my brain doesn't work. I can tell my brain isn't working like I'm a brain fog. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:You, just like you know that you know something but you can't access it, or you know you and then you're like I don't know anything, right, I'm stupid and you know, even though, like you, probably have a double master's degree and a PhD. I'm giving like an example, but like you know it's, you just end up telling yourself these stories in your head that aren't true and it just kind of compounds it.
Speaker 1:It does, yeah, which that brings up this really interesting thing that I learned about from a podcast. They were talking about depression. I'd never heard anybody talk about this before and it was really transformative for me to hear about it and they talked about confabulation as a feature of depression, and so I think of hocus pocus oh, let's confabulate, but confabulation here I have a definition. Okay, it's a neuropsychiatric disorder wherein a patient generates a false memory without the intention of deceit, ah, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:So basically— Don't you get fake memories, you're confabulating. That's what I'm going to say next time it happens.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yep, yeah. So basically what will happen is we have our memory and then we have the blank spaces in our memory.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:We have our memory and then we have the blank spaces in our memory, right, and so people with depression it's a common feature that they will fill in happen with a partner that I've been with Like, yeah, yeah, and it's not that they're being deceitful or trying to fuck with you, it's that they really believe, yeah, these kind of like false memories that, wow, that their brain's creating, and they're usually narratives that are very sad. When you're depressed, they're very negative. Um, even something like if you're depressed and you're looking back on your wedding day, and maybe on your wedding day you're like this day is fucking great, I had such a good time. And then, 10 day, you're like this day is fucking great, I had such a good time. And then, 10 years later, you're super depressed and you're thinking about it and all you remember is what went wrong and you might be like, yeah, no, I had a terrible day, it was awful, and it's not you just being a dick, it's that your brain is saying that's the truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I feel like this happens with a lot of people. I almost now that I'm hearing what this is like. Sometimes I can tell myself stories in my head and only look at the negative things.
Speaker 2:When I I'm really working on like redirecting those thoughts, you know like over the years I've gotten a lot better at it, but you just you tell yourself, like this story that's negative, about something that's really fun and positive and happy, and like one thing went wrong maybe, and it's not even that big of a deal, and you're like the whole thing sucked yeah. And that's what happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what happens to people who are depressed, like extra, so much more. And so I think I know from experience of times when I was not depressed but I had friends or partners that were, and maybe we went out and had a really fucking fun day and they were finally acting happy and I was like yay, like oh, this is so cool. And then we would talk about it later and they'd be like I didn't have that much fun, it wasn't great, you know. And I'd be like you know, I'm thinking you're being an asshole. That's not true, you were finally happy right.
Speaker 1:But their brain is telling them that the truth is we did not have fun, even though that might not be what actually happened, and so obviously the point of this is not like hey, go gaslight your depressed friends A fucking terrible outcome.
Speaker 2:That's not the lesson to take away, folks.
Speaker 1:No please don't take that lesson. But I think the idea is, when people either haven't had depression or don't know much about it and they hear depressed people talking, it's tempting to be like, well, they should just see things from a different perspective, just look at things from a positive light. And it's actually they can't. Their brain is doing something else. And, um, for me, learning about that was kind of scary because it's like, holy shit, like I might have made up memories of bad things. But also it was a fucking huge relief for me because I was having depressive thoughts about, like I don't have any future, this, it's inevitable that you're gonna have a terrible life. Things like that felt very fucking true to me.
Speaker 2:They felt like the absolute truth, and when I learned that I was like, oh, maybe I can question that and not live under that belief oh my gosh, that is like a huge veil lifted you know, just knowing the why, like I feel like the unknown is so scary and like, once you feel like you know why something is happening, you can be like, oh, now I can examine this and see a way out.
Speaker 1:Exactly and I can question it.
Speaker 1:I can, I can not, you know, because you know in the depressed mind the worst thoughts feel like the truest ones and you know if you're a reasonably smart person you're not going to just not trust your own thoughts helpful to be like wait, actually, you truly have like a lens that's so distorting of reality and all those super hopeless, sad thoughts that you're having that feel so real might not be real, yeah and um yeah.
Speaker 1:For me that was like a big aha moment and it also I mean in terms of the family member that has psychotic depression. I also recognized that pattern with that person because they would have social interactions and then have like really elaborate conspiracy theories, but all of those conspiracy theories always were like resulting in reality being that everyone was against her or everyone didn't like her or everyone was trying to harm her. So these really just negative outcomes is it was what her interpretation was of reality, and I remember sitting with her and trying to talk with her and trying to use logic and be like but do you really think that someone who you know just like sent a Christmas card two days late, wants you to get murdered? Oh, man.
Speaker 2:Not quite that bad, but I'd murder him.
Speaker 1:How dare you? Right, I mean not quite that bad, but kind of. And and she was really convinced that these explanations that she had created were the truth. And I feel like I finally understand her and what she was going through and, you know, knowing that that's a feature of depression, just kind of blew my mind, and hopefully that helps with the loneliness feeling too, when you feel so isolated and alone and you know like you're not necessarily alone.
Speaker 2:But you just feel lonely. Alone is different than lonely, and I feel like when you understand your own brain more, maybe you just won't feel as lonely, because you're like oh okay, well, this is happening because I've been oppressed for quite some time and maybe I shouldn't believe the stories in my head. Yeah, and maybe I need to rewrite that narrative and start listing off things that are actually good and going well and start adding good things to my life slowly. Yeah, to try to like come out of that. You know, and it's I mean, it's easier said than done, but the smallest, smallest things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, any little good thing that you can add is good, and I do. I relate to for me now that I know that that is part of how my brain is going to kind of fuck with me when I'm depressed. That is part of how my brain is going to kind of fuck with me when I'm depressed. When I do, I do sometimes feel lonely or alone, which is now. I am like hold on, let's challenge that. Yeah, you actually have like a huge, vibrant community. You have a lot of close friends. You are so not alone and I think just knowing that my mind can trick me yeah, knowing that my mind can trick me into believing that's the truth, helps me have the discipline to question it.
Speaker 2:Good, yeah, I want to hug you right now, oh here.
Speaker 1:Long distance hugs, oh yeah. So let me tell you a story. I was really excited to buy a new clit sucking toy. So I went to the world's largest online sex toy retailer and I found hundreds of options with no indication which ones are quality and which ones are right for me. So I had to make my best guess. I ordered the toy, got it in the mail, super excited to try it, and bummer, it's way too strong, even on the lowest setting, Turns out I can't even use it and I wasted 80 bucks. So I throw it in my nightstand and a couple months later I look to discover that it has actually melted into another sex toy in my nightstand.
Speaker 1:I was so mad I decided to start my own sex toy company, Juicy. At Juicy we sell a highly curated selection of body safe sex toys and we test them so that we can give you all the deets about whether or not it's right for you, such as how strong or gentle it is, how loud is it and how easy is it to operate. So support this podcast and buy your next sex toy at getjuicycom. That's G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom, Getjuicycom, G-E-T-J-O-O-S-Icom, hex. So basically, major depressive disorder which I have, which I think you know somebody who has that and whatnot is. It's a persistently depressed mood, long-term loss of pleasure and interest in life, often including disturbed sleep, feelings of guilt or inadequacy and suicidal thoughts, and that affects 8 to 10 percent of Americans every year.
Speaker 2:Which is pretty alarming. It's a lot of people.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of people. That's a lot of people that are suffering, and so, you know, check on your friends, right? Yeah, yeah, even the strong ones, mm-hmm yeah especially the strong ones. Right, yeah, for sure. So I came across a study in 2022 and this was of people with major depressive disorder who were not taking medication, and eighty two point seven, five percent of the women were experiencing sexual dysfunction. 82.75% of the women were experiencing sexual dysfunction. Wow, just from the depression.
Speaker 2:I mean it kind of makes sense Like you don't have desire for much else. Why? Why sex? Sex is something that you get excited about.
Speaker 1:I mean literally you know.
Speaker 2:So if you're just kind of like blah, yeah. Your capacity to get excited is fucked up, and it affects your energy too. Right like you need energy for sex.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you do, yeah so, and then it was 63.26 percent of men experiencing sexual dysfunction. That's just due to the depressive disorder, and then we all know antidepressants add to that. Um, but I think it's important to understand types of sexual dysfunction. So that includes arousal. So that's like the blood flow to your sexual organs Like are they getting engorged? Are they excited? Desire, right, do I want to fuck? Lubrication for women, so whether or not, you know, juices start flowing. And then your orgasm. So that's like like when I was on Prozac and I couldn't have an orgasm. That was crazy. And then your sexual satisfaction overall. And then, of course, the equivalent for men on the lubrication thing is is erection? Equivalent for men on the lubrication thing is erection. But all of those things, all of those things, it's like a chain.
Speaker 1:So if one part of it breaks, the whole thing breaks yeah yeah, right, so it's pretty tricky so I think so the ways that depression is fucking with sex is a lot of how we see ourselves and how we see our partners and with ourselves. Depression causes low self-esteem, often weight gain, either from inactivity or from medications, and then low energy. So you're just kind of like you know, like sex would be great but I don't have the energy to do it. And then what I think was interesting in the research I was doing was the how we see our partners part, which for me, I learned recently that irritability is a big feature of my depression. I did not know that until I started taking a new antidepressant and all of a sudden I was like not not not irritable.
Speaker 1:And I had really just thought well, that's just how I am, I guess, just deal with it. And when that went away, it was like noticeable to me and to my partner and we were like, oh, I'm not pissed all the time, so that's great. But yeah, if you're irritable from depression, you're going to have more conflict with your partner and conflict means less sex?
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yeah, so that was an interesting one for me to learn. And then also you have that negative lens, so everything is kind of dark and cloudy and bad and you put that on your partner, and so you look at them with a negative lens and you think they are interesting, and is this the unmedicated people still, or this is also medicated?
Speaker 2:this?
Speaker 1:is just like depression itself.
Speaker 2:So you can think of it a desire thing like I don't know if I'm negatively looked at or if I negative or I know that this person can sometimes negatively look at themselves. But like you know, like I would get told that, you know, like they do want to do things, they just and their brain fog is gone because they're on Wilbutrin now and things are going better, you know, with energy and focus and some of the things that brought them joy before and that gives me joy and I'm really happy to see that. But the sex stuff hasn't come yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's been very few and far between you know. So it's like how do you? I don't?
Speaker 2:there's been a couple times where you know we would try to do something and he would be kind of in the mood and then it would just turn off like in the middle or just before, and then it just wouldn't happen and then he'd get really upset yeah and just like, kind of like, just shut down, yeah, and I I would be like it's okay, you know, like trying to reassure this person, like it's okay, like we can take it slow, like just do things that bring you joy and we can cuddle and do other things. You know, like we don't necessarily need to go straight to penetration, but like I don't want to push it on this person and because I don't like them to make them feel bad. And I've been told you can fuck anyone, you know, but I don't want to, Not when my. You know, like not when things are. We're still figuring stuff out in our relationship.
Speaker 2:To me, like if we had an open relationship and things like that, to me it's like an additive to a relationship. You know, it's something that you add that makes you feel good, feel good. So I'm just kind of wondering what I can do, like to I don't know meet, meet this person halfway or and not make them feel bad. Or you know how long certain medications usually take to get your sex drive back or any of it. Or just like does life look different now and we just figure out other stuff, like do you have any? As someone with depression, do you have any insight on that um?
Speaker 1:I do. I know for me, if I have an effective antidepressant on board, I would say like 8 to 12 weeks, like I will start to notice my interest in sex picking up again. Um, I think the key thing is to keep the physical intimacy so like maybe there's not as much sex for a little while, but there's a lot of cuddling and touching and and we do that yeah, so that you don't become strangers to each other yeah, that I'm afraid of like lately, like we do have a lot of physical touch and everything is good there.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I guess I just been having like weird nightmares of like disconnection and stuff, because maybe I'm just worried about it. Yeah, I'm not in a relationship just for sex. Right, I'm not in a relationship just for sex.
Speaker 1:Don't judge me yeah.
Speaker 2:I just need it still, you know, and I would like some light at the end of the proverbial tunnel, you know, when the train comes through, yeah, but I don't want to be like pushing it, you know, I don't want it to feel forced, I want it to be fun and natural and stuff. But you know like, and I actually feel happy with what's going on right now, you know, and I have toys, you know, but I think we're just we got to figure it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think for me and I don't I don't know if your partner is similar or not, but I know for me, before this depression kind of had its grips on me, um, I was very sexually responsive, so like some initiation, whatever, I was like good to go all the time, really fast, um, and now it just like it takes a lot longer, like a much longer period of foreplay, I guess, of like touch and intimacy and closeness and like eventually I will want to, but it's just a lot more of that that I need to get to that point, and so maybe that is something that could be helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah that is something that could be helpful. Yeah, yeah, and you know where I as the depressed person and I relate to what you were talking about with with your partner, you get frustrated because your body's not responding and you want to want to and like it's kind of like you're living like behind a curtain, like you have this partner out there and you want to connect to them and you want to want to do the thing, but you you just kind of can't and um it's.
Speaker 2:It's really frustrating and if you're used to being really responsive sexually, it's extra fucking frustrating yeah, and it's like I don't want, I don't want anyone to feel like they're disappointing me, right when they already feel like a disappointment. You know, like I really don't feel disappointed. Am I a little sexually frustrated? Sure, I'm human right. But I'm not frustrated with the person, I'm not disappointed with the person.
Speaker 1:Let's just find other ways to connect, you know, and it's just gonna take a while, yeah I think having some, some creativity of different ways to like start initiating touch that is longer lasting and stuff as as foreplay, and then hopefully having your partner be patient with themselves that it's okay, it's gonna take you that's actually a really good point.
Speaker 2:Having them be patient with themselves, that's a good point. Yeah, because it's like it's okay, like you can slow, you can be slow, it's fine. Like don't think that you have to like pitch a tent right away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, With the slightest breeze. For me that happens, like I feel like if I'm not responding, um, as quickly as I used to, I get frustrated with myself and I'm like I didn't want to do this and I'll pull the plug. Um, but I've learned that when I hang in there and like, let's you know, maybe dial it back a few levels for a little while and stuff that it helps, and so having your partner understand, like your brain's just in a different space. Right now your circuitry is working differently and you need a longer ramp up, and so just be patient with yourself.
Speaker 2:You're not going to put it with a brace and that's OK.
Speaker 1:And I think that's a huge component because I know for me it's often, you know, something sexual will start and it's like I feel like I'm pulling the ripcord out of frustration with myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, all right, so we have talked your ears off, which?
Speaker 2:is great, I learned some new words today. Oh good what. The left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex and the confabulation Confabulation sisters.
Speaker 1:Let's confabulate. Yeah, so this has been an awesome conversation. Thank you for coming and talking about your experience as a partner of somebody with depression. I think that's a hugely important perspective that I don't think ever gets talked about, honestly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we need a hug just as much as the person that's depressed, to be honest, for sure, because you're holding it up for two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're holding it up for two right now and that's really hard. So I really appreciate you coming in and sharing that experience. I think a lot of people will relate and be relieved to know that they're not alone, and I hope that my experience with depression has helped some of you feel less alone, yeah. That just like to help you understand yourself and know that you're not alone. All right, so that is the conclusion of the trisexual depression and sex episode. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Juicy Sex Podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, kindly click like and subscribe. It really helps us get the word out and we'll see you next time.