It's Kinktober!

Kari and Casey talk all things Kink including some bits of history, how kinks form, and how you can begin to talk with your partner about kink in an effort to introduce some into your love life!

Mentioned this episode

@shibaristudios
@wildflowerintimates

Book mentioned in this episode
Unlearning Shame by Devon Price, PhD
Available on AMAZON

resources mentioned 
Mojoupgrade.com
bdsmtest.org
X confessions 

Transcript

casey: 0:00

Welcome to kinktober.

kari (2): 0:01

I love kinktober.

casey: 0:03

It's one of the best times of the year, isn't it? We're starting off this first episode of October and we're going to be talking today about all things kink. We're going to be talking about a ton of stuff around it, but we'll get there. Yeah. We'll get there.

kari (2): 0:16

I mean, my two favorite things in one month, Halloween and kink.

casey: 0:19

Yeah. Kinktober. Kinktober.

kari (2): 0:19

October is literally my favorite

casey: 0:21

day after day. We get to explore. We get to build some good communication skills. We get to talk about a lot of things important to us. Whenever it comes to kink. And help people.

kari (2): 0:30

Well, and I mean, our biggest kink, as I feel like the whole world knows at this point, would be shibari. Spicy

casey: 0:37

macrame.

kari (2): 0:38

Yeah, exactly. That's what

casey: 0:39

we like to call it, or human air jail.

kari (2): 0:40

Lot of, lot of phrases for it. Um, but I have noticed, and that's probably our biggest one that we like consistently

casey: 0:49

engage in, engage

kari (2): 0:50

in with one another. It's

casey: 0:51

probably going to be shibari, but it's, Why do you think that is? I mean, I know it's because I've got, yeah, it's like,

kari (3): 0:57

You, I've got spicy brains. Yeah. And you are why

casey: 1:01

I, I hyper focus on that shit. I get really concentrated. I love the intricacies of it. I love the aesthetics of creating harnesses and I love how it allows me to. Almost get to know your body and your mind better because there's so much communication that's necessary for that. And I didn't always have that. Whenever we first started, you remember that

1:21

it was,

casey: 1:22

it was not pretty. Um, and I don't mean the rope. I mean, yeah, I was trying to do it. Communication was not. Yeah. Cause I always took it like whenever we first started, I took it so. So it's like ultra serious that if something wasn't going the way I wanted it to in the beginning, I got real frustrated.

kari (2): 1:37

I mean, I, but I understood it though. Like you can't, you have to learn something before you can like. Play with it.

1:45

Yeah. You

kari (2): 1:45

know what I mean? Like with anything, you have to learn how to do it before you can kind of start or even like not play with it, but start to become more creative with it. You were so focused on getting it done. Right. No, no, no. This rope has to be right here.

casey: 2:00

Exactly. So that was one of the big ones that we, I eventually learned was like, it's not the way to do this because I was going, all right, I learned, you know, this harness, and so these ropes need to be in this exact position. Placement and that's not the case at all by moving them. You allow the person to the bottom, the buddy, do you have, be more comfortable, not experience, you know, damage or anything like that. And me, I was so mechanistic about it that I forgot to add in that human element.

kari (2): 2:24

Yes, you did. And, but, but I also didn't know how to receive it either. Right? Like you were learning to be a rigor at the same time I was learning to be a bottom. Um, and, That is in part on what we talk about in our classes.

casey: 2:38

This is exactly where we're headed. It is segue there. I'm

kari (2): 2:42

really good at this. Thank you.

casey: 2:44

So because of all the the work that we've put in for this over the last Quite a long time at this point, it's allow us, it's allowed us to start to share with other people, um, how to begin to do these things. And so we formulated a couple of different classes, all centered around just introduction to Shabari, like talking about the different types of rope that there are talking about the different basic, you know, frictions and tensions that we can work through and showing people how they can use it for bedroom play and a safe. And fun way.

kari (2): 3:16

And what I really like about our class that we offer is again, you're going to get the experience from the bottom as much as the information on the ropes. And I, and again, like I said, like we don't really, there are classes on how to bottom all day long. Yes. But I haven't necessarily seen a class that offers both where, and at least not like localized to where we are. And so offering the Again, that the like information on the rope, on the tying, on the communication, um, that's what really sets our classes apart. I do believe. And then also it's going to make it very fun introduction. So it's kind of for both parties because when we do the classes, it's a couple class

casey: 3:59

for now, I mean, we do couples and it's an inclusive class. So everyone is welcome. We enjoy the diversity that we get to experience for there and the people we get to meet and the things we get to learn about. A lot of, a lot of the people that are interested in Shabari. Yeah. So it's, it's this cool community that we try to create where it's not. Super like academic in nature. We're not trying to be that, like we just said, mechanistic in our approach. It's tries to be very informal and something that allows people to feel comfortable and it allows people to quickly build the trust with each other and with us so you can You can have that advance.

kari (2): 4:35

Yeah. And so we have two classes coming up. When are they?

casey: 4:38

So the first one that we're going to be having is we're partnering with our good friends at Shibari Studios, um, here in North Fort Worth. We're going to be doing that on that one is October the 15th. That starts at six 30 and we're going to go for a few hours just until we're done. Um, that one, if you've never heard of or been to Shibari Studios, you've got to check these guys out. Um, you can check out Shibari supply official on Instagram, or you can check out Shibari studios. On Instagram. The place that they've created there has like 20 plus hard points. Yeah. It's

kari (2): 5:07

basically this warehouse that you walk into that. They made it this beautiful, set up. Like you said, they have rigs. They have

casey: 5:14

lighting, sound. Tooth. Two stories would like an observation deck for whenever they host events. I it's a big place. Yeah.

kari (2): 5:22

It's literally everything that you need and that the, he sells ropes there. Um, and so it's, it's such a cool setup and I'm, it's just so conveniently close to us.

casey: 5:32

And they, they offer memberships. So the one thing that you need to know is that when it comes to doing a lot of this, one of the biggest topics. The two biggest topics are consent and safety. So they offer memberships that puts you through a background check to make sure that, you know, you don't have any, but there's no criminals coming in. There's no consent violators coming in and they have, they've been in this community for so long that they have connections to all of the dungeons around town, all the places in DFW who they can cross communicate with to make sure it's a fun and safe environment for attendees.

kari (2): 6:03

And in all honesty, like as a rope bottom, that is, that's Something that like can just be in the back of your mind because typically when you, when you're Thai, you're in tighter clothing, you're, and you're being observed and it's, it creates a really safe place to know that we are being observed around like minded, safe individuals. Exactly. And then we got another location that we're, so

casey: 6:26

that was our first class. Again, that one is going to be on October 15th at 6 30 PM. Um, and the other one that we're going to be having, we're super excited about this. You've heard us talk in the past about wildflower intimates and grace without wildflower intimates. Um, her shop is amazing. Anything you could want out of the perfect bra fittings. Yeah, it's in South Fort Worth

kari (2): 6:46

off of Magnolia. We went in there for a visit just to kind of like introduce ourselves. Um, she sized me up in a second.

casey: 6:55

Eyeballed it really and it was damn near perfect.

kari (2): 6:57

It was, yeah, it was literally the perfect size. It was the most comfortable bra I have ever worn. I ended up finding out that I was like, Not in the size that I should have been in. Um, which might be why I'm not a bra wearer, you know, because they were so uncomfortable. Um, but the bras that she placed on me, I just, I felt so like a, like a swaddled baby on my breast. Like it was. So

casey: 7:22

comfortable. I have no idea what that feels like, but I'm going to assume it's really nice. Maybe like

kari (2): 7:27

the tightest boxers, you know, to something that just really holds the balls up like I, I was so comfortable in these bras and, but anyway, she has a beautiful space and we're going to be working with her. Now understand that this one's going to feel more like this one is more about intimacy. Yeah, this one's going to be a little bit more intimate. We're still going to go very much on education, but it's going to be a lot more on play with it. So that's

casey: 7:54

the goal of the, of that class we're going to do for a two hour course. From seven to nine on November 9th, that one is going to be more around. Let's teach you a couple of basic ties, get through some of the work so we can show you how this can be utilized to increase the intimacy in your relationship. It's very much going to be centered around like. Movements and flow about how to do something that can, it can really drive you in that spiciness level in the bedroom. So it's, it's a very kinky one that we're going to be doing. So I think we're excited about both of them, but that kind of leads us into our topic for today.

8:28

Yeah,

casey: 8:28

that we're going to be discussing and today is all about because it's kinked over because it's kinked over because everyone wants to know about good kinks. We

kari (2): 8:34

do.

casey: 8:34

We decided that we're going to take a the today's episode to really discuss all things kink. Yeah, I think we want to kind of start off with this is the origin of kink. Where does kink come from? Yeah,

kari (2): 8:45

start from the beginning.

casey: 8:46

So you have, I mean, everyone at some point in their lives, I feel like Experience is kink on some level. Um, you may not always engage in it, but people fantasize fantasizes it's healthy, it's natural, and it leads into you saying, you know what? I have this interest that kind of is a recurring theme in my fantasies that I'd like to try. And unfortunately we've had a lot of people, especially in Western culture, villainized kink. To say that it's unhealthy, that it's weird, to say that it's a result of trauma. So we want to take a minute to clarify, do a little bit of myth busting, and show you what kink is kind of all about.

kari: 9:23

Are you calling me Carrie from Mythbusters? Was

casey: 9:26

there a Carrie on Mythbusters?

kari: 9:27

Yes! It was the main girl! Her

kari (3): 9:29

name was Carrie! Do you know how

casey: 9:30

many episodes of Mythbusters I've seen?

kari (3): 9:32

Not a lot, clearly!

casey: 9:34

Not, not enough. Not as many as, as you might think from like my personality type. I know, like you totally seem like

kari (3): 9:39

someone that would be obsessed with MythBusters. Like I'm, I was never a

casey: 9:42

MythBuster.

kari (3): 9:43

I'm literally just finding this out about you. I, it was never a big thing

casey: 9:46

for me. I just, I kind of got bored with the episodes. Yeah. And they dragged, they, they

kari (3): 9:51

did drag

casey: 9:51

on God and then they tried to dramatize some of it to be like, are we gonna finish the project? Oh. And then, and they always do. Like it got a little repetitive, a little annoying.

kari (3): 9:59

I got him on a tangent guys. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that. Back

casey: 10:04

to the history of kink. So that first myth that we want to tackle is whenever somebody says kinks are always a result of some form of trauma, which is half truth. I'm going to call it a half truth. I don't want to say it's fully false because you can develop kinks from trauma. Um, however, not all kinks are trauma based. Yeah. Um, kinks come from everywhere. You can see something in a movie that becomes a kink and it becomes a kink because we have these, the circuitry in the brain, um, our arousal circuits, um, our play circuits, our seeking circuits, our, our core affects that we deal with those like evolutionary behaviors that we've developed that whenever they are activated. It opens you up to really taking some of this stuff in that you see or that you experience or that you become a part of and develop a, an arousal response to it. So you don't have to have experienced a trauma to develop something into a king. So you

kari (2): 11:01

could have just seen something as a kid and you, you're, you know,

casey: 11:05

you're, you're arousal seeking circuits might have been activated at that time. You go through that and then you internalize that and then it comes out later. At any point as a potential kink. So it's not something that's like, Oh, this is bad or something bad happened to me. You just had those, that circuitry active in the brain at the time that you went through this, and that could be something you saw on television. That could be a game that you played with friends. So many things can turn into kinks. So that's a big one that we want to tackle right off the bat is that no, not all kinks are trauma based. Yeah. Right.

kari (2): 11:38

And I think that's important to make because that is one of the most Like misunderstood concepts when it comes to kink. Is that like, Oh, what happened to you to make you like that? Maybe nothing happened to me. Maybe I'm just, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like nothing. I just like it.

kari: 11:54

Yeah. Yeah.

kari (2): 11:56

But I do want to kind of dive into like more of the history of it. You had talked about what did you say? Like in an art area in the world, it's not as like received well.

casey: 12:09

Like in Western.

kari (2): 12:10

Yes.

casey: 12:11

I mean, kink has been around since the dawn of time. Yes. Have we always called it kink? No. Has there been people that enjoy to explore acts or things outside of what would be considered traditional sexual practices? Yes. And I think that's the core thing to really hone in on there is that you could go to a part of the world where a certain act is considered normal. And it's not going to be called a kink, but you go somewhere else, especially a place like America, where we were founded on like

kari (2): 12:43

shame. We were founded on shame. Yes.

casey: 12:46

Anything outside of like traditional, what's considered what's considered traditional sexual practices in America is, was, was villainized, was demonized. It's called a natural. And that way we call it kink. So it's, it's fucking America. So it's like anything that's not, you know, man and a woman missionary position, sex for the purpose of reproduction is now all of a sudden kinky. So it's really easy in America to call something a kink because it would, how much is just not considered normal sex. Put some heavy quotes around normal. Sex. So in terms of the history of it, like kinks been around forever, there's always been some level of kink, but what we would consider kink here now would not necessarily be considered kink in previous times. A lot of those acts were normalized. Yeah. Quick history lesson.

kari: 13:39

Yeah. Thank you.

casey: 13:39

That's all we're going to go to for now. Yeah. What are, do you have any other, any other things like rumors, myths, or stuff like that that you've heard about kink? You're like, is that true?

kari (2): 13:50

I mean, I mean, I would probably not say that, no, but I think that there's Wow, great conversation,

casey: 14:00

moving on.

kari (2): 14:01

Well, no, cause I guess in my head I was thinking like, I think that people misunderstand kink versus like a fetish.

casey: 14:06

Okay, um, we can, we can do that. And I mean, The difference between a fetish?

14:09

Yeah.

casey: 14:10

So understand that kink is, is a sexual interest that is just considered outside the norm. That's, that's a kink right there. Fetish is typically something that is you, you need to, it's a need to be experienced in order to achieve arousal. That's like the next level. Yeah. So not, not all. What, how would you, how would you word that all fetishes are kinks, but not all kinks are fetish. All kings are fetishes.

kari (3): 14:34

Yeah.

casey: 14:35

So a fetish, I mean, most notably it, it's usually around like an inanimate object. Uh, but the person that experiences the fetish, they have to experience that to achieve arousal. That's a true fetish.

kari (2): 14:46

So do people also say that like a fetish comes from trauma as well? Is that like a common thing that people say? Or do they not connect those two together?

casey: 14:54

Unfortunately, where we're at is, uh, most people that we've experienced believe that kinks, fetishes, all that are, are a. Um, a source of trauma that something bad must have happened to you. Oh, you call that person daddy and you have a daddy fetish. It comes, it stems from your daddy issues.

15:13

Yeah.

casey: 15:13

Oh, you enjoy like knife play. What happened to you as a child? And

kari (2): 15:18

you enjoy feet, you know, who kicked you in the face as a kid and you liked it. Like what happened

casey: 15:23

to Quentin Tarantino when he was The child or teenager that it causes him to put feet in every film in every single movie he's ever made And really tie his own character into interacting with those. Oh,

kari (2): 15:36

absolutely What was the vampire

casey: 15:40

one from dust till dusk till dawn

kari (2): 15:43

selma hikes foot in his mouth with tequila draining down Her leg into his mouth. I want that done to me

casey: 15:50

and

kari (2): 15:50

who wrote by her

casey: 15:53

Yeah, he gave himself a character and put his character in that scenario. So good job. Uh, I'm glad you did that. I'm sure it was consensual.

kari: 16:01

Yeah. All right, moving on.

casey: 16:04

Absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about. The people that have now identified that they have kinks that they're interested in. Maybe you haven't, maybe you haven't. As we said earlier, everybody fantasizes. We all do. Fantasies just occur and it's up to you to, are you going to act on them or just allow them to kind of fade away or store them in, you know, your spank bank or something. Yeah, I was going to say you're just going to

kari (2): 16:28

masturbate to them, whatever.

casey: 16:30

But once you, once you kind of start organizing through your fantasies and you see these recurring themes and those recurring themes start, Becoming something you want to engage in. Um, what do you do with it? Like, what are you supposed to do with that? And if you're in a long term relationship, which is most of our listeners, then you want to know. Okay, how can I bring this up to my partner? That's a big one because not everybody has this open line of communication with their partner for these kind of things.

kari (2): 16:57

When a lot of people are ashamed of their own kinks. So even if they talk all day long and they have great communication through sex, there's Could be something in the back of your head saying what if they think this is weird? What if I think that it's weird that I want this, you know what I mean? And so even having the best level of communication, sometimes you're still afraid to just from the shame that we experience as individuals growing up in the society that we're growing up in.

casey: 17:24

And that's where my biggest piece of advice is start learning how to how to unmask your shame, start learning how to shed it. Because if you can start Engaging and empowering yourself to kind of own your kinks and get rid of the shame surrounding it. Then you're going to have ultimately a better sex life. And that better sex life is going to lead to higher relationship. Appreciation and success and all over better, better times. In fact, there's, you know what? Give me a second. I was about to say

kari (2): 17:50

there has to be some book or something that I know that you can recommend for this.

casey: 17:55

So this is, this is probably one of my favorite ones. This is called unlearning shame. It's by Devin price. Who's a PhD. This book is fucking amazing. You want to talk about somebody showing you how to like. Break down the walls of shame in your own life and which is going to ultimately create success in multiple areas, not just your sexual life. However, we want to focus on the sexual side of things. So check that one out whenever you get a chance. There's plenty of other resources that just happens to be one that I'm super connected to. You get a lot of good stories in there and you get a lot of good analogies and a lot of great tactics. In order to help you start to kind of unmask that shame and get it out of your life. So you can be more confident in discussing these kinks. So getting rid of shame is definitely a big one. Um, trust is going to be another huge one. So take a moment to like, think about yourself and your own long term relationship and how much trust do you have in there? What is your, um, I mean, shit, what's your attachment style like in the relationship? Do y'all have that secure attachment? Um, what does your codependence look like with each other? What does your communication look like with each other? Is this something that you feel like you're in a place that you both feel you're in a place to openly maybe get vulnerable and talk about some things that are super close to the chest, especially when it comes to sex. We're all being told that sex is a, a closeted act and that's something that you should kind of. Keep quiet. Don't talk about it. Just hold it close to your chest. So start to learn that, like how to build that trust. So what would you say to that?

kari (2): 19:23

I mean, I would also say gain permission to disclose this to them, set up a time to do it, say, Hey, um, you know, it's a Monday morning. We're running around and we're busy. This isn't the time. Um, but this evening I would like to take some time to sit down and talk to you about. Things that I would like to explore in the bedroom and you can leave it as simple as that, but I always think it's important to gain consent to even carry on this conversation because you don't necessarily know what if your partner is not in that headspace. There's plenty of times that we want to talk about something or Casey wants to bring something to me and I'm like, I'm not, I'm not necessarily there right now. So gaining that permission or also like letting them know in advance, I want to sit down and talk to you about it. It's a way to like gauge how they feel about it. Gauge how you feel about it and set aside a time to actually sit down and discuss it

casey: 20:19

because the worst possible time to talk about or try a new kink. Is in the bedroom.

kari (2): 20:25

Oh my God. Do not do that. This is something

casey: 20:28

that we've had to talk to so many couples about. Cause we'll, we'll talk about conflict. They're like, you know, we were, we were in bed the other night. We were like, we started having sex. And then all of a sudden, you know, he got up and was like, I want to try to tie you up now. And they had never done it before. They had never discussed it. And it becomes. It can lead to some, some big breakdown, it can lead to fights, it can lead to your

kari (2): 20:51

partner, maybe being triggered for something or, or, or just not understanding why they have this like strong emotion when something like this happens, like you need to be able to sit down with your partner beforehand and basically like discuss the scene. Out and how you want it to happen. And this scene doesn't have to be dramatic at all. It could be something as simple as say, I came to Casey and was like, I would really like to try impact play in the bedroom and then you leave it at that. Right. And then if he's receptive to it, maybe y'all go out and you pick out the, the, the toy together. The, what do you, what do you even call it?

casey: 21:31

I know. I'm like, I don't know. Like it's not a toy.

kari (2): 21:35

Right. Seriously. Um, no, I guess I just mean like it could also become like something exciting, something y'all can do together. You go and pick it out. Then y'all, you know, you set up a time to actually utilize it. But before you utilize it, you can sit down and discuss like. What your hard nose are. We call

casey: 21:53

this scene negotiation. Yes.

kari (2): 21:54

And it's very important and it can start out just as small as you didn't even have to have anything. You say you want impact play. Your partner has a hand, right? Um, we're going to, some light spanking. But it's good to dip your toe in the water of the kink that you're interested in chocolate syrup on that. Vanilla is like, don't, yes, absolutely. But don't like go, if we're going to use the ice cream analogy, don't go get brownies and sprinkles and like chocolate chips and whipped cream and. No, go and just slowly start testing it out. Having that, said, like line of communication between the two.

casey: 22:32

So real quick, I love that we're talking about scene negotiation, but I feel like I need to take a step back. That's fine. Back to kind of where we were for a second, because we wanted to first establish that trust. And then as we said, the next step in that was to sit down and have the discussion of, of talking about kinks. Now, when we talk to some people who are saying, look, I have great trust in my partner and we have pretty open communication, but I'm still so afraid of the judgment. And you know, being called weird, how can I bring up kinks that I think that they're going to be on board with and kind of avoid the ones that I don't. Um, we have a great resource for that. Two great resources for that. Um, first one's going to be the X confessions app,

kari: 23:14

which is

casey: 23:15

to an adult site, but it's an app you can download on your phone that works essentially like Tinder for sexual acts with your partner. You link it to your partner and then it'll pop up individually on your phones. With a sexual act. It might be watched porn together. It might be anal. It might be shower sex. It could be impact play or anything else. Yeah. If you're interested in it, you'll swipe one way. If you're not interested, you'll swipe another way.

kari (2): 23:38

Well, and another cool thing on it is it'll give you definitions. Yeah. So there was one that I'd swiped and I'm like, I don't even know what that is.

casey: 23:44

Sex positions.

kari (2): 23:45

I'm like, what is this? And it has this little like button on it that you can press and then it'll give you the description below. But what's so cool about the app? Is if Casey swipes right on something and I swipe right on something, meaning that we're both interested in it, then it'll pop up on our, like on our app and say, you know, these are interests that both of you have. These are the

casey: 24:05

ones that you matched with. And so there's stuff on there because I feel I, the first time we did that, I felt so like safe and comfortable swiping through like some of these more. Maybe you wouldn't talk about some on the higher side, the more extreme side. And then lo and behold, we're matching on stuff. I'm like, Oh shit. You're into that.

kari (2): 24:21

Yeah.

casey: 24:22

Oh, okay. That is

kari (2): 24:23

such a good, I advise honestly, Casey, because that really opened up some of our like conversations. And if you are one to be a little bit like timid, just to sit down and have that conversation. Yes. The X confessions app is amazing for that.

casey: 24:38

Now there's another one that's out there. That's a website you can use called mojo upgrade. That one you can find and it's free online. You can do, it's essentially the same thing. You each create your little profile and you're just clicking through the different acts. I believe it has a wider breadth, um, for, uh, than X confessions X confession is limited. There's a, there's a couple of hundred acts. It's a great one to start with, but yeah, to start with, and then you can try this like mojo upgrade. Um, but again, it creates great conversation and safe conversation because you know, the act you're going to be bringing up is one that you're both interested in. And you don't have to worry about being told that's weird. I mean, no partner should tell their other partner. Please don't

kari (2): 25:15

ever respond to your partner with that's weird when they're coming to you with something, anything, because that is very I mean, demeaning is not the word. I don't know what, what to call that.

casey: 25:24

In part, I would call it demeaning. I would say that you're, you're now shaming them. And what you've done is you've just added a layer of mistrust. To your relationship because now your partner's not gonna feel safe coming to you with these kind of things. Yeah. So we would definitely recommend that, and that's gonna be part whenever we talk about like how to take rejection and things like that. But what the only other resource I wanna talk about Mm-Hmm. in that if you're trying to discover what your kinks are, or maybe who you are as a kink star or your kink identity as we like to call it. Mm-Hmm. BDSM test.org.

kari (2): 25:53

That's when I was thinking in my head, I'm like, yeah. Oh, I was like, hold on. What is it called? Cause that, that

casey: 25:58

one that it reads out as almost like a personality test. So you can, you know, agree, strongly agree, partially agree, disagree that you, you see from some of these psychological examinations and it'll spit out something at the end that says what you're most likely to be. So for me, I think it was like a hundred percent rigor. Yeah. And like rope buddy. And this is just an example was like 5%. Yeah. So there's like dominant submissive. You're not really

kari (2): 26:23

the submissive type. Um,

casey: 26:26

exhibitionists are on there and the primal play is on there, all sorts of stuff. So you can look to see what your percentages line up as to say, these are the acts that you might might enjoy the most. You enjoying your mic stand over there?

kari (2): 26:39

It won't stand still fine. I'll just have to hold it. You got this. It's fine. It's fine. You do

casey: 26:45

what I do. Just hold the mic in your hand. I'm not

kari (2): 26:47

going to hold it for that long. I know. I'm

casey: 26:48

getting tired of it. I'm too fidgety. 18 episodes. I know.

kari (2): 26:52

I'm too fidgety.

casey: 26:53

I'm done with that at this point. I want my mic stand back. I know. But yeah, bdsmtest. org. And that's going to be a good one. Um, but, but yeah. So. Boom. Once, once you've done this, now you're going through your scene negotiation where you're saying, Hey, what does this look like? Um, what are your, what is your hard lines in this? So, you know, if you're going to do impact play, you have somebody that says I want to do impact play, but I don't want you to hit my feet. Yeah. I want to do impact. Yeah. The feet hurt. If you, if you

kari (2): 27:21

like pain, then feet are great for you. But if you're, if you like, the feeling of impact play without it being like crazy painful, then yeah. But that's something that you figure out and you. You can figure that out together. You can start with like light touches and we're just using impact play as an example, because it's one of the easiest ones to truly talk about. Um, especially when it goes through these like negotiations, but yeah, sitting down with your partner, a little bit of what I was saying earlier, you can find the different tools you want to use. I guarantee you don't even have to go to a sex shop to find stuff that you can use for impact play. We all have belts.

casey: 27:57

You can do simple, you can, there's easy stuff for impact play. A belt's a really, really good one. Um, you can use anything, any household items that can. You know, they're safer wooden

kari (2): 28:07

spoons are another great little popping device

casey: 28:11

as the cook in the household. Yeah, I can tell you, yeah,

kari: 28:14

him, not me. Yeah, no, definitely not me.

casey: 28:18

No, that's, that's good. Um, and, and any of these acts that you come across, whatever you're negotiating them, just, It's important. We can do a whole fucking episode on the conversation and we will now. We will do one where we maybe even bring somebody on. That's like a veteran expert in scene negotiation that can help us out. Cause there's so many emotional. Physical components to go through emotional and physical opponents to go or components to go through that it's, it can be a complex thing, but if it becomes simplified and you have kind of a roadmap, then you can find yourself negotiating scenes with ease and creating some really fun things. Now, what to do if you bring up. a act and your partner's like, no, I'm not interested. I'll never be interested. I don't want to do that.

kari (2): 29:03

I think that a hard no should never be a response. It because anything can be negotiated, right?

casey: 29:10

Oh, disagree on this one. I, that's

kari (2): 29:13

fine. Yes. As an example, and all I'm saying is like, there absolutely are hard no's, yes, or you can find a way to like negotiate out something that could kind of maybe work for both, right, like, perfect example, I guess, um, I don't, I don't like water play, I don't want to be peed on, that's not a thing for me.

casey: 29:37

Don't insinuate. That's a thing for me. That one. It's not. It is,

kari (2): 29:41

but we're not talking about us. But if it is a no, there are ways that maybe y'all could negotiate in, in, in meet halfway. Right. You know,

casey: 29:51

you say you don't want water play. I know. And I bring it up all the time. I bring it up every time.

kari (2): 29:55

I know I bring it up every time. Water

casey: 29:57

sports more than like any other act.

kari (2): 29:59

Because it's, I feel like it's one that's really common that people like know about, but it's also still like insanely taboo.

30:07

Yeah.

kari (2): 30:07

Because again, I can't say no when there's plenty of people that want to be peed on, but all I'm trying to someone or pee on someone. Right. And all I'm saying is like, there's a way to negotiate it. It could be like, In the shower, I will let you do this to me in the shower. If it's something that you are wanting. And what I'm trying to say is like with partners, you can do fake urine. I mean, you can't, there's, there's ways to, um, do the act without doing the act. Yeah. But there's ways to like. Make it work. If it's not even the exact thing, like you buy the fake P got it. Right. And then like you use it as if it, the act is happening and seeing if that can kind of still help trigger out and give you that satisfying satisfaction that you want from the kink. So

casey: 30:56

it's not going to be a full act, but you can engage in some level of fantasy, some level of compromise that allows you to. Get similar feelings. It may not be the real thing. It may not be 100 percent all in, but it's something that it can allow you to feel that, that some level of fulfillment and engaging in the act in a different way.

kari (2): 31:11

No, no argue. You already agreeing with me.

casey: 31:13

Well, that's because my argument was going to be to your statement that there should never be a hard, no,

kari (2): 31:18

there shouldn't be, there's ways to negotiate around it. You know, there's, I mean, there can be should, should be, is not the proper. And I do want to get a really

casey: 31:28

good example in here on this one, because if you take somebody that has a history of trauma and then you want to engage in CNC or consensual non consent, that could be a very hard note for that person because you're dealing with some pretty deep shit. Yeah. So there are times whenever it should be a hard no, and that could be a decent example of when that might happen.

kari (2): 31:49

Yep. And you would say hard no to that, but we could try this. Maybe we could try. Exactly. Like the whole thing is, is that it isn't a negotiation. And, and one of the

casey: 32:01

scene negotiations, one of

kari (2): 32:03

my favorite times that we got to experience seeing negotiation is when we went to that sex Uh, party.

casey: 32:10

Yeah,

kari (2): 32:11

that was one of

casey: 32:12

they covered seed negotiations,

kari (2): 32:13

but that was like eye opening for me to go through. And cause you would sit in front of a partner and they would hear

casey: 32:21

no and how to hear

kari (2): 32:23

yes. And so, and it wasn't because I don't think it was with you that you had said that there was a lady that wanted. You to hold her and cuddle her and her like nuzzle up on you or she

casey: 32:37

wanted me to do that and then kiss her neck and do all this stuff. And I was not in like that kind of place at that moment. And so, and so you

kari (2): 32:46

were able to hear what her request was, and then you were able to come back with, um. Instead of the kissing and all that what if you lay on my lap and I like stroke your hair or something, right? I don't remember what you did exactly but there's ways to Negotiate and when we sat down with that or in that like in that circle, it was so helpful to hear people say no but Not shutting them down, just giving a suggestion on top of it. What if we did this instead? And that was really helpful and that was very eye opening because there are times that we've been in, or intimate, and there was something that you wanted to do, and I was like, um, well, maybe not that exactly, but let's, let's try doing this. And it's all about that, like, compromise. And you can utilize any kink in the world and find a way to compromise that with your partner. It doesn't have to be so intense. Kinks don't have to be scary and they don't have to be all or nothing. There's a lot of ways that you can kind of like adapt that kink into your lifestyle by maintaining consent from both parties and want from both parties.

casey: 33:55

So say for instance that you are, you're somebody that you have had the dream of dominating somebody else and they do not have the dream of being submissive to you. What you can do is. Get someone

kari (2): 34:09

with us that will want it to

casey: 34:11

bring in a third one. Come on, let's do it. However, some of the things that you can do is you could get together and come up with a list of words and phrases that are greenlit by your partner. So you can kind of engage in a little bit of that dominance, or you can negotiate a scene in which you may be able to feel a little bit of that dominance without it being so overly, I

kari (2): 34:37

mean, again, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. There are many ways that you can incorporate it into it. Um, we kind of go back and forth between being, um, dominant and submissive. Clearly I am way more of the submissive person in our relationship. However, we did start to implement, um, I have like glasses, right? Like I don't need glasses, but I wear a bunch of different glasses. And what we've kind of done now is that I like have a personality around the glasses that I'm wearing. Yes. And it's a great way to like incorporate a mindset into without having to be super like verbal.

casey: 35:16

We actually, we learned about that one because we're, you know, we. Both our career people. Yeah. Like we have this thing and we were trying to find ways that we could deal with, um, leaving work at work and leaving personal lives at home. And one of the things that we had come across was somebody talking about creating different personas. So having like that work persona and then tying that to an actual physical object. So I used to go into work and I would have a, uh, I think it was like a hair tie in my car. And so whenever I was going to be going into work, I would slap the hair tie on to be like, okay, this is now the character that I am and act out as that character throughout the day. And the second I'm in the car, It comes back off. I still do that now. You do that now, but with shoes, I do. What I do with shoes, I, I have a pair of work shoes at my clinic where I wear flip flops into work. The second I get in, I put on my work shoes and I'm now like Dr. Casey. Yeah. And then whenever I leave, I slide those shoes off my flip flops back on and now I'm dad or daddy. Mm-Hmm. Depending on who's dad or daddy, depending. I know

kari (2): 36:13

you know that our daughter the other day was like, I think you call. Dad, daddy more than I do. And I'm like, probably

casey: 36:21

she calls me father.

kari (2): 36:22

She does father.

casey: 36:24

That's father and daughter between the two.

kari (2): 36:27

But so no, so like I have these glasses and I have these like tight, thin, like framed, you know, and so they're like more of like my secretary glasses and those I put on when I am choosing to be more dominant. And then I have a bigger pair that are much more wide and playful that I use when I'm going to be more submissive.

casey: 36:44

Those create great non verbal cues for your playtime.

kari (2): 36:47

And he doesn't, I don't have to say a word. I put those on and I walk into the room and he automatically knows, am I going to be more submissive or am I going to push my dominance on him? It doesn't, it's not always received. Because you're way fucking more dominant than I am. And so, but it's fun to play into that though. And if you are someone that's super dominant, I do encourage you to have a time or a session where you are a bit more submissive. We had a session not too long ago where I had those on and I was like, okay, we're going to do this. And it was the very first time in our relationship that you have ever remotely been submissive. But it was like, but it was really playful and it was a lot of fun and it wasn't, Serious. And that's really the point that we're trying to make with all the, these like aspects into being connected with your partner is don't take it too serious. It doesn't have to be kinks are fun. They're a great way to explore yourself and your partner and you and yourself and your partner together. Like you can bring your kink into his kink and y'all can really work to, to create a lot of fun. But yeah, it really does start with communication.

casey: 37:54

Yeah. I understand. And we, we said this earlier in the episode, but. We still have people that are like, well, why should I engage in kink? Why should I try to explore this, this whole thing? And at the very, very core of it, it has to do with your relationship satisfaction and your sexual satisfaction. Um, again, this is something that. Isn't touched on too much. It's kind of overlooked, but there are so many studies out there that link your sexual satisfaction to your overall relationship satisfaction and people that engage in sex that, um, adheres to their sexual identity. The off how often they want to have sex, the type of sex that they want to have those people that engage in that more often are going to be overall happier in the relationship, which then can help us do things like closing the orgasm gap, like decreasing divorce rates, taking care of people on a level that just creates overall happiness within your relationship.

kari (2): 38:47

I mean, there's something so connective though. about introducing kink into, into your relationship. And I also want to say that kink doesn't mean that it has to end in intercourse or coming. You can experience a kink together with no actual need for release,

casey: 39:09

which is always a great, great piece of advice that we love to utilize is don't go into, you don't have to go into sessions with the expectation of sex. You don't have to go with intercourse or whatever you want to call it. You don't have to go in with the expectation of orgasm. You don't have to go in with any expectations other than exploration and curiosity. No. And on top of that, an added note is don't take it too fucking seriously. Like if you're going in and you're doing this with like, it needs to be in a certain way, and I want to be super concentrated. Please take a step back from that. Laugh a little bit, enjoy each other. And if things aren't going the way that you were hoping they would go, just laugh about it

kari: 39:47

and try something else. It's fine. If you go in and

casey: 39:50

you decide that like, Hey, this maybe isn't for me. Consent revocation, entirely acceptable. Hey, I'm not enjoying this as much as I thought I would. I'd really like it if we switched to something else.

kari (2): 40:00

I really like that you bring that up because there have been kinks that I've had in the past that I'm like. Okay, no, I really want to try this and then i'm in it and i'm like I don't want to try this

casey: 40:10

I would like I don't want to do

kari (2): 40:11

this and then but it also takes a lot for Say you're doing an act to me and i'm responding in a way that I don't like it It's very important for the person to not view that as a rejection either because It takes a lot to be vulnerable and to tell someone. Hey, I want this and then oh, hey, no, I don't and then if they take that negatively It can really alter the entire process when that's not what we're trying to do.

casey: 40:40

Yeah, we have a tendency as, as humans to, when we are rejected to on most levels, think that has everything to do with us personally. Whenever your partner tells, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's about. You or that they are rejecting you. They can easily just be rejecting the act. They can be rejecting themselves. So in those moments, whenever you start to feel those kind of emotions rise a little bit, and you're like, well, why are you telling me? No, what did I do wrong? What is about, it's important to attempt on some level. It's not always going to happen, but to attempt. to understand that there's a deeper reason it's not all about you.

kari (2): 41:18

I don't know. I mean, it kind of goes back to the shabari stuff that we were talking about earlier about how you were like, no, when I first started, it had to be so like meticulous. It had to be done this exact way. And then when we started playing with it more and it became more fluid, that's when we actually started to have a lot of fun with it. And so we're encouraging the same thing when it does come to your kink Dip your toe in a little bit figure out how y'all can incorporate it, but just don't take it. So serious. Yeah, it's meant to be fun

casey: 41:46

Yeah, so this kinktober Kinktober

kari (2): 41:49

kinktober

casey: 41:50

fucking right.

kari (2): 41:50

I know

casey: 41:52

May make it a like come to an agreement with your partner and bring it up and say, you know What what if we made a list of kinks? What if we went to these websites? what if we use these resources and just Without even engaging. If you don't, if you're not there yet, just write them out as this is what I would ideally like to try, take a look over this, find some stuff that you might like to, and maybe we just talk about it. You can, you can go out to dinner and just fantasize with each other. I mean, what would we do if we were going to try this out? What if we were going to do, what if we got one of these big alien. He's

kari (2): 42:26

pointing to a big alien dildo that we have in the background

casey: 42:30

and try that out. What would that look like? What would it look like if we bought a series of plugs? I mean, how like

kari (2): 42:35

sexy would it be if it's like, you know, you have date night that evening and you text your partner, download this app, download X confessions, swipe through it. And at dinner tonight, we're going to sit down and talk about some of them.

casey: 42:48

We're not allowed to look at their matches. Yeah. Don't look at just, and we're going to sit down together. Yeah. And we're going to go through our matches one by one. We've done that. Yeah. And it was, we had a blast and

kari (2): 42:57

we had a great time because it really brought up conversation immediately. Um, it, it's important to set aside time to not only play, but to discuss the play that you want. And throwing kink into the mix is just such a fucking great way to do it.

casey: 43:14

Again, it helps with your overall sexual satisfaction. Yeah. Increases desire for your partner. It's no bad, only good. Yeah.

kari (2): 43:22

And like I said, we've been at this for 15 years. It's, it's not eat, not the podcast, but each other. We've been at it with each other for 15 years. And like it, we're still exploring new kinks and still trying to find ways to like, have fun sex or have sessions. Like we do rope sessions. Like we're talking about earlier where it's, it's not sexual. It's not meant to be sexual, but it still is a kink that we have that we're utilizing the time to explore together.

casey: 43:48

So take that for what it is. Yep. Sure. Do we have any recaps that we need to do? I feel like we covered so much fucking information today. The biggest thing is if you have any questions comments, concerns, anything like that, you can drop us a line. You can do Casey at come with Casey. com carry it. Come with Casey. com. Those are individuals for us. I think we also have ask at come with Casey. com. So three different email addresses you can hit up and we'll get to all of your questions. You can also find us on Instagram. Um, right now it's at CW Casey underscore official. You can drop us a line there saying that you have questions. Of course, we'll keep everything anonymous. But we'd love to talk it over with you to see how we can explore and help each other out.

kari (2): 44:26

Yeah. Let's help you get kinky.

casey: 44:28

So for another episode of insert future title here, right? Well, cause we're rebranding, um, I'm Dr. Casey Sanders and I'm Carrie Sanders and we'll see you next time.