Knotty Bi Nature

Head Case: Is it Really Easier to Please a Penis?

• Casey Sanders / Kari Sanders • Episode 80

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But is it? Lately there have been a few viral videos well known people discussing the change in degree of difficulty in pleasing a penis vs. a vulva. This week Kari and Casey provide their perspective on the whole conversation. 

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Casey:

Well, welcome to another episode of Naughty By Nature. We are your hosts. I am Casey Sanders.

Kari:

And I'm Carrie Sanders. Hi, how are you today?

Casey:

That's a great way to start it, isn't it? Thank you. Hi. Hi. Hello. How are you doing today? Um. What,

Kari:

what prompted today's, um, topic? Because you came up with it.

Casey:

Yeah, I did. Well, you know, we, we've gone through a lot of our, a lot of our episodes over time mm-hmm. To figure out which, which episodes people really react to or have more questions about. And in light of that, it always seems to come back to a few topics being in like the top three, right?

Kari:

Yeah. The questions that we get, they're always geared. Very similar topic, at least. Yeah.

Casey:

So we've had really big conversations with people wanting to know about anal.

Kari:

Mm-hmm. Oh yeah, that's a big one.

Casey:

That's always a big one where people are wanting like tips and tricks. How do I, you know, convince my partner to do it all that kind. It's a huge conversation. It really is. Uh, that's a big one that we have. We have, um, how can I introduce kinks to my partner without feeling insecure or judged? That's a big one that we have,

Kari:

you know, one that I thought that we would get a bunch with like threesome questions, but we really don't get like a huge amount of like threesome questions. You're right. We get a lot more about like palacio and about like anal. Well, I think and about like communicating wants,

Casey:

if I remember correctly, the statistics around that are like 18% of men. Mm-hmm. And 10% of women. Don't quote me on those numbers because they may be incorrect. Mm-hmm. Uh, but have participated in a threesome, however, is that

Kari:

little.

Casey:

Mm-hmm. However, it is the most searched of like all topics and is the top rated fantasy for both men and women. Yeah. Is threesomes. I

Kari:

mean, I get it. Yeah. I get the appeal. We,

Casey:

we've also had people that have, that have, we've seen numbers online where, at least online. Mm-hmm. Where somebody's talking. They'll be like, you know, in actuality, um, most people have just confronted and asked, Hey, here's an idea that I have. You wanna have a threesome that most people reported back that they would say, okay.

Kari:

Yeah.

Casey:

I think that's a number worth noting. That's like, I mean,

Kari:

there's a lot of interest in it anyways, we we're going, we're going sideways here. Oh, we, no,

Casey:

we're not. We're no, we're not. We're, we're staying right on topic of our, most of our most, okay. Uh, searched or at least talked about discussions, but the number one that we have above all else always comes back to the same thing. It's people are wanting to know more about oral. It always comes back to that. People wanna know like, why don't I like it? Why don't I want to give it? Why don't I wanna receive it? People wanna know, why do I love it so much? Why am I so attracted to people

Kari:

I know that go their entire relationships without having any type of like oral intimacy? And that is wild to me.

Casey:

There's people that we know that are like, I, I think it's gross. I don't want to do it, and I'll never touch it. And they're so set in their ways, but we've also had private conversations with maybe their partner who have been like, no, it's, I really like it. It's really important to me. Mm-hmm. And I just cannot. Communicate that to my partner without them getting upset or angry. So we wanna talk today a little bit, a little bit, all about really oral. Mm-hmm. What do you have, if I was gonna say like, what was your, what would be your biggest question about oral if you were to be presented with the opportunity?

Kari:

So like, ask something honest. You are,

Casey:

you are at some like symposium, sex positive symposium and they're talking about oral sex and you have the opportunity to ask a question.

Kari:

Mine would be, how do I just make him come faster? Yeah, that'd be mine. I'm doing the tricks. Wait, I'm doing the swirls. I got the tongue down, but he takes a really fucking long time to come. That would my

Casey:

question. What, what would you classify as a long time? I don't

Kari:

know. How long does it take you?

Casey:

Uh, it depends on the day. A long time. We've had times where it's been a couple of minutes. We've had times where it's been 20 minutes.

Kari:

That is honestly, yes. I'm, I'm, you're right. That is very true. Um, you do vary. You, you vary a lot. Um, I, I think I would want to know like a finisher move that's not swallowing.

Casey:

You want, you want a magic bullet?

Kari:

No, no, no, no. Yes, I do. And I feel like I'm already pretty good at what I'm doing. But what I mean is like, my question would be more geared towards like. I know he is seconds away from coming. Mm-hmm. What is like the end all, be all like jaw dropping move that I could do? Like would it be like a finger in the ass? Would it be like

Casey:

at this point are you asking me?

Kari:

No, I'm not asking you. I asking the guy, you just said that I'm at a seminar. I'm speaking to the man on stage. The person on stage. That would be my question. Yeah, that'd be my question. How can I, knowing he's about to come, just fucking blow his mind. You

Casey:

know what the response would probably be.

Kari:

Finger on the, but

Casey:

no, they would say, ask your partner.

Kari:

Yep. That, yeah,

Casey:

they would say, why are you asking me this? Ask your partner. You

Kari:

asked me, and now you're getting onto my question.

Casey:

No, I'm not. That's not getting onto you. There's

Kari:

so many. No, I mean, what would your, what would you ask?

Casey:

What would be my question? What, what would

Kari:

be the one thing that you would wanna ask somebody?

Casey:

Ooh. The one thing that I would ask if it was like a researcher or somebody, um, about, about oral.

Casey (2):

Mm-hmm.

Casey:

See, mine wouldn't be a move or anything. Mine would be like, kind of like what we discussed earlier. Um, is it really easier for to, to go down on a woman than it is to go down on a, on a, it's like to go down a vulva than it is to go down on a penis. Yeah. Which one is actually easier? What are the numbers show? What does your research show? Who is it that is easier to go down? I after wife, that's, I can't actually. I like that benefit. And you just ask me, which is the exact answer I just gave you. You made a, and you made a whole deal of it, and now you're telling me that you should just, I should just ask you

Kari:

we're both huge hypocrites. Look at us.

Casey:

So then let, let's go through that then. Yeah. Okay. C Carrie. Mm-hmm. Do you feel it's easier to go down on a vulva or a penis?

Kari:

Um, I would, I would say vulva owner. Is physically easier,

Casey:

like less demanding?

Kari:

Yes, but like mentally harder.

Casey:

Ooh.

Kari:

Right. So like if I'm going down on you, there's no, there's no like mental warfare here. I'm just going down on you.

Casey:

What do you mean?

Kari:

Like, I feel like with a woman. And or with the women that I have been with.

Casey (2):

Mm-hmm.

Kari:

It is much more theatrical. Okay. It's much more in the moment. It's more, um, assuring they're okay. Having maybe a little bit more soft communication throughout mm-hmm. When, when I'm with you and I don't feel like that has anything to do with, I'm, I've been with you a long time. I feel like I can remember back at the very beginning of, of our relationship, I. Did not go into like the emotional where, where or whatever with you. Okay. Where when I've been with a woman, it has definitely been like, how else are you feeling about what's happening in the moment?

Casey:

So you added those complex layers of emotion into being with a woman and keeping a base layer with a man.

Kari:

Yes. That's my personal experience. So I will say, but it's also more intimidating to go down on a woman. And when it comes to like. I'm gonna make you come in the physical work. A male is way harder.

Casey (2):

Yeah. If

Kari:

I'm gonna make you come in the physical work, a woman is way easier.

Casey (2):

Mm-hmm.

Kari:

But now you add like a whole other layer to it. And then why? Why do you feel like

Casey:

you don't have to add that with a male part, that

Kari:

emotional layer? Because y'all also are very responsive on what you like.

Casey:

Mm-hmm.

Kari:

Um. Yes. I like that. Oh my God. Yeah. Do that. Girls don't do that.

Casey:

See, I that's girls don't. That is so biased. I've talked to people before who are just like. Like, we don't communicate at all, or I've, we've talked about this before, guys that just don't say anything. Sit there and

Kari:

No, y'all do. I, I don't, I, I'm sorry. This might be inappropriate, but I have never gone down on a guy and him just be like,

Casey:

why would that be inappropriate?

Kari:

There's nothing inappropriate. We're literally talking about sex all the time,

Casey:

and you're giving a personal experience. There's nothing inappropriate about that. All I'm

Kari:

saying is I have never questioned my ability with a man, whether they're not that. Sometimes nonverbal cues or just, I don't know, your dick getting swollen and eng gores in my mouth. It's really easy to tell when y'all are like super into it. With women, it's not necessarily like that.

Casey:

You're not, you're not getting those like objective measures to determine if she's really feeling pleasure or not. It's not detail

Kari:

with women and, and I understand that like. School. Honestly, my level of being with men and women are, are, are lower. However, from my experience, I've never had to question with the guy, am I making this feel good for you?

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

I've always had to question, poor a girl, am I making this feel good for you? Yeah.

Casey:

Especially'cause you don't like in those moments, because of the way that we're kind of, the message we're given as, as we come up in the world mm-hmm. Is that you don't know are this, is, are they being real right now or is this like theatrical for, they're trying to put on a performance because they feel like they're supposed to mm-hmm. What's going on in their head. We are trained and told that like that that is. What's going on? Only we're talking about women faking orgasms. We talk about, well, yeah, but not

Kari:

only the performance of receiving, but the performance of giving. Yeah. Women giving head to a male, anyone giving head to a male. That's more, in my opinion, theatrical.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Kari:

Look up at the eyes, you know, spit on it. Drool like that is like the sound, like mm-hmm. That to me is very like theatrical, where I don't feel like I would perform that same way for a woman.

Casey:

Mm-hmm.

Kari:

Right. Like, it, it is, there it is. Differences. Um,

Casey:

wait, do you feel like I perform for you whenever I go down on you?

Kari:

Uh, no. But I think that if you were giving head, you would like to a a if you were giving a penis on her head, yeah. I think that you would fall into the theatric

Casey:

center. Do you want more performative? Whenever I go down on you,

Kari:

what are you gonna do? What, what, what is the male performative equivalent to what a girl can do through him?

Casey:

As soon as these cameras turn off, I will show you. Yeah. And then you can report back.

Kari:

Like a, a woman or a, a girl on her knees with, with a cock in her mouth is, is a very different vibe.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

Maybe because your organ is external and mine's internal

Casey:

could be. Right.

Kari:

There's more visual aid to giving head to a penis versus giving head to a vulva. It

Casey:

could be

Kari:

not, could be. It

Casey:

could be a reason

Kari:

saying like.

Casey:

But if you're, if you're a, if you're going down a woman and you, you know, put a mirror in front of you and then allow them to watch through a mirror,

Kari:

how many people do that? Have you ever been that? Oh, I'm gonna give

Casey:

you an idea. I'm just giving you a suggestion.

Kari:

I'm just saying, but if you want it to be more theatric application, that's not a thing. No one does that. You know, you

Casey:

are, you make some broad, yes, I do claims some with no basis in reality.

Casey (2):

Very truthful.

Casey:

You've asked, asked, no one. You've consulted nothing. You're just spouting shit off the top of your head.

Casey (2):

But I'm not wrong.

Casey:

You are.

Kari:

Damn. It's not my birthday week anymore. I can't use that.

Casey:

No excuses now. No

Kari:

excuse. Listen, so one of the reasons that we wanted to sit down and write out this episode or even discuss it is. There's a lot of people that I know that are super not interested in giving head or even receiving. Yeah. Right. Typically in my, my mind, my correct mind, when I say giving head, I go to like a male giving head. Yeah. I know. I don't know as many men that are turned off to the idea of being gone down on mm-hmm. Versus Volvo owners that are like absolutely not. I'm curious about that disconnect.

Casey:

So you've talked to a lot of, a lot of vulva owners who have been like, I'm not interested in somebody going down on me.

Kari:

Oh. Lost so many women that are like, nah, but I've ne okay. I will say look like talk to men about head all the time. Yeah. But like, I can't imagine. Hearing the same response. Mm-hmm. Like, have you talked to any of your guy friends? And a guy is just like, nah, it's disgusting. I don't do that. It's been

Casey:

few and far between. I have, it's not non-existent. Yeah. But it's been few and far between where I've had, uh, a penis owner talk to me about mm-hmm. Receiving head and they're like, I just, I don't like it Really, it's not entertaining for me. It's, I don't, I don't enjoy it. What's

Kari:

his name? Who is it? Where do they live? I wanna call him up. Kidding. No, I mean, the, the point though, being that like. I do feel like there's a different stigma when it comes to like men receiving and women receiving, but the hope of this show and what we're trying to get across is that like it really is the same thing as long as you're communicating what it is that you want. Yeah. Through oral, oral. I don't know what the word I just said, but I said it. So whenever we're kind of going into a disgusting,'cause we're sitting at lunch and we're talking about like, what are some of the reasons that someone would be like, I don't do this. Mm-hmm. I don't wanna give head.

Casey:

Yeah. And so we're kind of, okay, so we're going from the, like the giving aspect right now. Yes. What would be reasons where you'd be like, no, I don't do that.

Kari:

Yeah. Like, I don't, I don't want to give you head. Mm-hmm. Um, so some of the ones that we had then like written down. Um,'cause there's a few different reasons as to why someone might feel that way. Yeah. But a, you know, a good portion, it can be like upbringing, like you said, or like maybe like religious purposes mm-hmm. Or whatever. So we're the first one that we wrote down. Was trauma.

Casey:

Yeah. So that's a big one. And that, that one we even discussed, uh, there's, I think it's in her book, mating in Captivity, but Esther Perel talks about a client that she had mm-hmm. Who absolutely despised receiving oral and it was due And this

Kari:

was the mail that despised receiving? Yes, yes.

Casey:

He did not like receiving oral and his partner whenever they were in sex therapy. Mm-hmm. Um, his partner, she was talking about it like, well, I, I want to provide this, I want him to enjoy this. But he does not. Want it or like it or want anything to do with it. Ultimately, they came to the decision that it's just not for him. Mm-hmm. But it stemmed from the fact that he had been abused a lot whenever he was a child, and so he executed this complete aversion to it and the likelihood of it changing after all these years and even going through the therapy he was trying to, and wanting to become more. We're aligned with it, but it was be, it became more about accepting the fact that it just wasn't for him. That

Kari:

wasn't gonna be

Casey:

for him. Yeah. So we have a lot of people that have been through trauma, that it's something that had been forced on them or they had been forced to perform acts mm-hmm. That they're now in an adulthood say, this is, I'm completely averted to it. I have no intention of ever doing that. I, it's not for me.

Kari:

Yeah. I mean, I, unfortunately, I, I know women that were forced to. Um, go through and act like that at a very young age that it did in return, make it be like, we're, that's a huge no for them. That's like, that's a boundary. That's, that will never happen. And, and I'm never going to tell someone how to deal with their trauma because that's your journey and that's your personal journey. Yeah. Um, but if you're listening to this and you're like, wow, that kind of like brains home, I do strongly encourage you to like, go through like what they call is like reclaiming.

Casey (2):

Mm-hmm.

Kari:

Going through a process like that, it's not necessarily going to be for everybody, but trauma is, it's a unique, it's a unique experience, and there's ways that you can overcome it. And then there are ways that you, what you're saying is they accepted it. Hey, this is just not gonna be for me. Yeah. And that's also okay. I can choose to overcome it or I can choose to say. This just as an act.

Casey:

Yeah. You can reclaim it. The power behind it.

Kari:

Yeah. It's a beautiful thing, but it's not for everyone. No, it's not. And you

Casey:

don't have to do that. And that's a process that it's, that's one of those ones you're like, all right, you need to find a professional. Mm-hmm. That specializes in Absolutely. In trauma therapy, that is sex positive, that wants to help you reclaim that power that can walk you through exercise different ways to, because that, that's a very, very fragile road to walk on. Yeah. And there's a lot that can go wrong. So that would be a point where it's like, I'm not, don't talk. It's not something you should be like. I'm gonna consult my friends about how I should handle, but, but I think

Kari:

it's important to understand that that therapy even exists.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

That is 100% a

Casey:

thing. Many people don't understand that, that there are great sex positive, uh, trauma centered therapists out there who are willing to sit down with you and help you reclaim that power mm-hmm. And help you understand and, and heal. Ultimately from some of the traumas that you've been through, and there's like, if you need resources

Casey (2):

mm-hmm. Please

Casey:

reach out to us. We have a large network of people that can help out with that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. But that would be definitely one reason why somebody says, I don't want to give, I don't wanna receive. It's not for me. It might be trauma centered.

Kari:

Yeah. So, um, yeah, trauma. And then the next one that we wrote down was, uh, purity Culture.

Casey:

Fuck, purity. Culture

Kari:

knew you were gonna lead with that.

Casey:

Uh, that, that just irks me. Like you're, you're sitting back and saying, well, because of my religion, and look, I'm gonna respect your religion if that's your choice and all that. But if you're having people sit back and you've lived your entire life being told that you need to be pure and that you need to keep yourself modest and. Clean and mm-hmm. Submissive, like I hate all those words you just said. You except for submissive.

Kari:

Okay. That's for

Casey:

security. Culture has done damage to so many people and it's most, for me, mostly due to the fact because it's thrust upon people. Mm-hmm. It's not something where they are choosing to be a part of it. It's not something where they have been, um. Introduced kindly to it. It's just pushed on you mm-hmm. From a young age, and you're told that you need to be pure, that you're told that certain your, that your genitals are disgusting and you're told that these acts are for behind closed doors between only a certain type of person and that other than that, it's gross and immoral and all sorts of stuff, and we're looking at it and going, there's, there's very little basis in reality for your claims. Yeah. There really is. And for the fact that you wanna sit back and then use that, leverage it to create things like legislation around it. You wanna use it to try to control the way that your, that your kids are taught about sex in school. All of this, it's not creating no great adults.

Kari:

It just doesn't work. It's not realistic.

Casey:

It's not, it's, it's been

Kari:

shown that it doesn't work.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

You can have people that go through and like. The complete opposite because they were raised in such like a purity culture. But what it also takes away from is consent, in my opinion.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Kari:

Purity culture completely cuts out any level of consent that a woman then has.

Casey:

Oh, yeah.

Kari:

Because instead,

Casey:

go, go on, go on.

Kari:

Well, no, I'm just saying like instead of sitting there and saying that like. I have a, a choice to what's going to happen with my body. Mm-hmm. They remove that because it's, it's not your choice. It goes against what you should want. You shouldn't want this. Right. You, you shouldn't, this isn't your body. It's not

Casey:

okay to enjoy. Pleasure.

Kari:

Not for a woman. Absolutely not. How dare you?

Casey:

She's supposed to guard this gift.

Kari:

Yeah.

Casey:

And she's supposed to give it away to one person.

Kari:

Okay. And then where does purity culture go in when someone's abused As a child?

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

Right. Like I went through purity culture and I was abused as a child. That fucked my meat up. Yeah. Because then I thought for a brief period, and I've moved past it, but I thought that I was now no longer good enough.

Casey:

Right.

Kari:

Because I, you thought that you were like

Casey:

unclean and that you'd been tainted. I was

Kari:

unclean. I wasn't able, I was the problem when what happened to me wasn't my fucking problem.

Casey (2):

Mm-hmm.

Kari:

That was that person's problem and I was just a product of that.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Kari:

But then through purity culture, it did give me an obscure view on what my role was. Yeah. As a person.

Yeah.

Kari:

It's just, it's unfortunate and even the same thing as like, I know I went on a little bit different, but talking about purity culture, even as simple as when it comes to giving oral mm-hmm. I had plenty of women tell me that it goes against what they believe that oral is nasty. That that is not, I would never do that show is just disgusting

Casey:

if you grow up being told that like genitals are unclean and, and gross and private. Exactly.

Kari:

It's completely gross.

Casey:

So then you're gonna grow up and be like, well now I still believe that all this things are gross and that there's, all of that stuff should just, it should just be left alone and we should give strange nicknames.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Casey:

To the body parts. Like, hoo-ha, that's, it's not gonna create a good environment for you to really be able to explore the pleasure side that you're so capable of. Mm-hmm. So purity culture is there a lot.

Kari:

Jesus

Casey:

Christ.

Kari:

Yes. We're allowed to, everyone

Casey:

should have that level of autonomy, like, come on.

Kari:

Um, so the next one that we wrote down, um, was withholding

Casey:

this. This is a big one and we, we hear about this a lot where people weaponize sex or withhold things in a relationship in order to have personal gain,

Kari:

which is interesting'cause our last episode was. Weaponizing sex, but in a positive light. In a beautiful, fun. Yeah. Well we were, we were talking about gamifying it. Yeah. Oh, gamifying. Thank you. I'm sorry, I just said the wrong word. You're right. But gamifying, so I think it's funny that now this episode we're kind of talking about like there's a way to gamify your relationship mm-hmm. And a way, way to weaponize your relationship.

Casey:

Yes. And we've seen it before. We've had friends that have told us, oh, well I stopped. Mm-hmm. I stopped providing this, this service or, or engaging in this act until I got what I wanted. Yeah. And we want to discourage anybody from. For making choices like that, sex is something that you engage in because it provides you pleasure and your partner pleasure. Um, if you take it down to just the basic of this, it making it all about

Kari:

what can I gain from

Casey:

this? Yeah.

Kari:

And if I, if I can't gain something, then why do I wanna do it?

Casey:

Yeah. Punishing your partner by withholding Yeah. Sex is, is not a, a great way to, uh, to engage with anything you're part of. And

Kari:

that's the difference between like. I am upset with them and I don't wanna give them oral. Yeah. That's not what we're saying right now. Yeah.

Casey:

We're arguing right now, and I'm not in the mood be, to be sexual with you is one thing,

Kari:

but like I want this new TV and until I get this new tv, you are not receiving oral pleasure from me until I get what I want.

Casey:

Yeah. I'm gonna start classically conditioning my partner to every time they do the dishes, I go down on them and then they'll start doing the dishes more without me asking

Kari:

really works ladies.

Casey:

And then if they stop doing the dishes. That I'm going to withhold and be like, Nope, not tonight. That to me is like, come on.

Kari:

Have I possibly conditioned you before? No, I don't think I have.

Casey:

No,

Kari:

I think there's maybe been some where it all like, it triggered like thinking you were gonna get head like the scene we put my hair up. Yeah. Right. Like that can sometimes be like a, I mean it's, it's more, it's more

Casey:

of a rousing versus versus I know what this means. You know, it's, it's more of an arousing act. Um, I think that we've had in the past where you've been like, Hey. If you really want head right now, do this and I'll, and I'll go down on you for that. I'm like, okay, sure. I, we've definitely engaged in that.

Kari:

I've definitely been guilty of that. But to me, I view that as gamifying, I withholding from you. It's, I want, it's

Casey:

playful, it's fun.

Kari:

It's like, go give me ice cream and I'll give you heads. That's. That's how we use it.

Casey:

Ver versus, I'm mad at you because you didn't do this. Now you're not getting anything until you start doing it again. Yeah. That, that can be hugely problematic.

Kari:

Well, just very manipulative in the relationship because it's also thinking that you have the right to control that level of. Whatever for your partner.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Kari:

That's not for you to sit there and take away and give as you choose and see fit, like, I don't know.

Casey:

All you're gonna do is create a ton of resentment in the relationship.

Kari:

Yeah. Now the next one that we wrote down, and I've heard people say this, I do not feel this way. Um, but people don't necessarily like giving head because then they make them. Or it feels like they're in a submissive role. Yeah.'cause now they're the one giving or performing the act. Yeah.

Casey:

Because I'm down here, I'm lower. Yeah. I'm lower than, I'm less than and all that. And I'm performing something in you. You and I have the same view on this, and that's providing oral for someone is a very empowering thing. It's a very much an in control thing. Yeah. I feel like I'm in control of your pleasure.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Casey:

I feel like I'm in control of your body right now. By going down on you, by, by providing all this for you, all this pleasure. And because I know what you like, I'm able to do that in such a way that, again, I don't feel submissive. I don't feel like I'm, I'm, you know, down here doing something. I feel like I'm in control.

Kari:

See, I've said this to women before and I'm like, submissive. His cock is in your mouth.

Casey:

You can bite it off if you wanted to.

Kari:

You can control anything that's happening right now in this moment. You are the most in control.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

You've got the two most gentle things on his body right there. Just give him a flick in the balls. Well top right on the ball. Like, could not be more in control. But I don't know. I mean, I, I will say it took me becoming a little bit older before I realized the control that I had. Yeah. But in the beginning it felt very submissive. Mm-hmm. So I do get that mindset. But I do feel like it's still a sexually immature mindset because it took me growing maturely to be like, oh no, fuck that. Like. He's my bitch.

Casey (2):

Is that the, is that the way

Casey:

you're viewing that when I'm

Kari:

giving you head every time? Just know that

Casey:

I would say it's circumstantial. We can include the time. Yeah, we can include the time is where I have a handful of the back here and uh, and I'm throwing you around like a ragdoll, consensually.

Kari:

So, uh, we are gonna kind of flip it a little bit. So again, the, the first one that we gave you, those are like reasons that we've heard to not give head, but we just don't really support that. Like, we hear you, but we, we hope that some of the things that we had discussed could even get you to kind of like, maybe flip that mindset a little bit. Mm-hmm. And be like, how can I then give head in a way that's empowering to me or through my trauma or through saying, fuck the purity culture. Yeah. Now I'm gonna go in and doing it through a different mindset. I. Um, but yeah, no. Now these are reasons that we found that people love.

Casey:

Mm-hmm. Love

Kari:

to get pet.

Casey:

And are these personal reasons? Couple of them.

Kari:

I mean, some of them are, yeah. But I mean, again, we talk about sex all the time, the stories that we get from people, and I love people's ability to just immediately open up to us. But it just happens even. When we were in Nickel City this past weekend and we were just hanging out. Mm-hmm. These stories just started coming out and I'm like, no, it's fine. Speak me more. Yeah, go ahead. Tell us about it more. I love it. I wanna hear these things. So anyways, um, so the first one that I actually written down was. The last one that we had written for the other, which was being submissive, flipping it to being, yeah. It's personal, like power dynamic.

Casey:

Yeah. It creates a lot of empowerment. Yeah. I know. I know you knew this. I know that, that this is the way that I see it. Like if I, whenever I'm in between your legs mm-hmm. And I'm using my tongue or my fingers or anything else, I feel like I can just move around and I know areas that I'm going to hit mm-hmm. That are just going to. Create sparks.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Casey:

And it's just gonna have like your change in body language, your change in breeding patterns, your change and, and vocal tone. Mm-hmm. I can, it's almost like you're a puppet. Yeah. And I can just be in control. I mean, you're paying

Kari:

attention to each of those cues. Yeah.

Casey:

I can be in full control of how you react to the things that I'm doing. And so that to me is super empowering and I'm sure you feel the same way about getting head.

Kari:

Yeah, absolutely. Um. Yeah, absolutely. That's a very big like power thing.

Casey:

Now, is there a difference for you? We go back to that like difference between going down on a penis and going down on a vulva.

Kari:

Um, I mean, you had talked a

Casey:

minute ago about saying like, oh, it's harder to tell if a woman's feeling pleasure.

Kari:

And it's a lot hard to tell with women. It's a lot harder to tell. Um. I personally, I personally would say that I prefer still going down on a male. Mm-hmm. I have that power dynamic feel when I go down on, on a male.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Kari:

Uh, on a woman, it's probably still little insecure.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Kari:

I'll be honest. Um, but to me it's not a power. I don't know. For me, when I'm a woman, it's like a. Opportunity.

Casey (2):

Okay.

Kari:

You're allowing me to, to do this with like, guys, I don't necessarily feel that

Casey:

way. Wait, wait, wait. No, no, no. Let's, yeah, let's dive into that further. You're allowing me, so you feel like it's a,

Kari:

like, I'm like, like you're

Casey:

not, like you are in more of a submissive position. Not let's less empowering with you.

Kari:

It is less empowering for me and more like, it's just a different connection.

Casey:

Okay.

Kari:

It's a very different connection.

Casey:

See, I, I think that women are more complex. People do. Like, for me it's, I, I mean, I've never gone down on a penis yet, but

yeah.

Casey:

It's something that I'm like, I feel like it's a p like it is a puzzle and I, I enjoy solving puzzles, so whenever I get those kind of cues mm-hmm. Of, of some of the things I've already described. Yeah. The woman with a woman that I'm able to be like. Okay. I know that this is working. I can like feel the movements. Mm-hmm. I can feel like little tightenings or muscular distractions. That's,

Kari:

that's been very rewarding when you

Casey:

are Yeah.

Kari:

Going down on,

Casey:

yeah. You get close towards, or orgasm and they start like their pelvic floor starts tightening a lot. Mm-hmm. Or there's just like movements of legs tightening up, things like that. Uh, increase in breathing, moaning and that kinda stuff that you're able to go like, okay, this is working.

Kari:

I don't know. I mean, I hate to say it, I think it's more rewarding to go down on, on a vulva than a penis.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

But it's also because my level of like. Penis di vulva is, is still, most you get from a

Casey:

penis is a engorgement and then a come shot.

Kari:

Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of work in between all that and a lot, but yeah,

Casey:

a lot of fun work.

Kari:

Yes. It's my favorite. Oh, shut up babe. You get had a lot.

Casey:

I do.

Kari:

A lot.

Casey:

I do. And I, and I appreciate every single time with equal enthusiasm.

Kari:

Okay. Let's see. So, uh, oh, this was the one that, that would, that you had written out, like reasons to give head was, uh, exploration and Pleasure

Casey:

mapping. And pleasure mapping. Yes. So

Kari:

it, you talk, I want you to like, dive into that

Casey:

like what pleasure mapping is. Yes. So the, this is going to be a limited scope on, on discussing it right now because in typically pleasure mapping is referring. To finding like all the parts in your partner not concentrating on, not just,

Kari:

yeah, on the,

Casey:

not concentrating on like, pleasure organs. Yeah. Uh, penis, vulva and those kind of things. Um, but more of like the entire body. Where is it on their feet? They receive pleasure. Where is it on their legs, their, their knees, their thighs, all the way head to toe and really concentrating on the things that your partner individually. Is turned on by, aroused by feels pleasure. Through that you can touch not only with your hands, but with objects. Mm-hmm. And so there's, it's, there's a lot that can be done whenever it comes to pleasure mapping, but you can also use pleasure mapping if you're learning your partner and how to, uh, perform oral on them. Yeah. So say that, you say that you're, you're pleasuring a penis and you're like, all right, well, I wanna know what's gonna really feel good to him. Most people are gonna sit back and be like, well, I know that if I like. Suck on the head of his penis, then it's gonna feel good. Mm-hmm. If I move my hand on the shaft while doing the same thing, it's probably going to feel good.

Yeah.

Casey:

However, one of the things you can do is, all right, well where would I, where would they feel more pleasure? Is it gonna be if I like grip around the base of the penis or more near the top? Like more where, where my lips are,

Kari:

like gripping the base and swirling your tongue around the top of it. Exactly.

Casey:

Mm-hmm. Like how do they react to that versus maybe like putting your hand against your mouth and going in Yeah. Up and down and, and. Putting it in and outta your mouth. Yeah. Is that like, what are they gonna like more? Now? The odds are they're gonna love both of them, but you can always put a little bit of, or you can find out top five moves. Yeah.

Kari:

Or you can even find out like which move they like better as they're closer to coming.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

Because as a penis owner, I'm imagine mm-hmm. It can change. Like there are certain ways. Or things that you would want during the buildup that you wouldn't want as you were coming. Yeah.

Casey:

I know that we've talked about this like this before. Like squeeze them too hard maybe. Yeah, exactly. The more, the more pressure you apply or do they need lighter pressure as get closer to coming? Um, one of the ones we had talked about is there's like that really good move where you could uh, or you could ma like jerk them off while like using your tongue just on, just on the freni limb. Mm-hmm. So like the backside, the, the right where the, the head of the penis meets. Yeah. And the backside of it. Using that. That's a really good Wanna do. Twisting your hand versus move your hand just up and down. Exactly. Um, and

Kari:

then, so that, those are all different things of like pleasure, pleasure mapping, essentially it's just, right now we're just pleasure mapping the cup,

Casey:

just the penis. So then let, let me ask you this. What do you feel like you are the top three moves that you enjoy doing,

Kari:

not receiving? Do it? Yeah.

Casey:

This is, this is performing on a penis. We're still on penises right now.

Kari:

Um. I do a, I do a lot.

Casey:

You do.

Kari:

I would say we, we,

Casey:

we both like you. You do explore and that's been a lot highly encouraged.

Kari:

Well, sometimes it's to a fault. Yeah. Sometimes you'd be like, what'd you do that last time? No. Fuck clue what I did. I forgot what I did. Okay. I really do something new almost every time. 15 years of trying no shit on your dick. Has been, we

Casey:

have had that, and it's usually one of those things where like, I'll stop you and be like. Whatever you just did, remember that.

Kari:

And, and there are ones that I will, so like the, you know, swirling of the tongue.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

That's one that you really like or

Casey:

what's, what's the, what is it? I can't remember. There's actual specific name for this and I can't remember, but it's like where you put your Luther and

Kari:

just name all of where

Casey:

you put your lips right at the tip and then suck in like heavily.

Kari:

So I'll do that, but I'll use my tongue to pull. Yeah. The tip of your penis into my mouth. Yeah. And so you just go up and down on the head. Yeah. So I'm not just like sucking it in. Yeah. I'm like slowly

Casey:

and forcefully

Kari:

and forcefully gliding. I know. There,

Casey:

I can't think of it off the top of my head. I wish we had like a producer right here. I could be like, look it up.

Kari:

Right.

Casey:

But there's a specific, it's like a something kiss or something like that. There's a name for it. Um, so yeah, that would be a a, a good one. But all

Kari:

of that came through me just being very curious on what you like. Yeah, just like amidst the very same for me, like Yeah. I feel like sometimes your partner's pleasure is only going to be as good as your looking to explore.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Kari:

If you're not looking to explore or try something new or, or be a interest with your partner, they're probably not receiving the best level. Of pleasure.

Casey:

Right. A lot of it has to do with one present time, consciousness being in the moment.

Kari:

Mm-hmm.

Casey:

Um, a lot of it has to do with like, how are you paying attention and listening to your partner? In those times. And then partners, how good are you at communicating the pleasure in receiving? Are you somebody that sits there? I made a, I think I made a, I made a comment to somebody's, uh, like read it after dark post a while back where it was talking about somebody that asked about blow jobs. And it was about like, guys, and, and like not moaning or moving around much. Mm-hmm. Like that. And I said, I'm a firm believer that if more men were more communicative during blow jobs, then they would receive them more. If you're sitting there like a dead fish and just going.

Kari:

While

Casey:

she's going down on you and then you, like, you don't make any movements and then bloop, you come and you're like, wow, that was great.

Kari:

I have never had someone, so where's the fun in that? I have never had someone just lay there.

Casey:

I, that's personal experience for me. I'm just saying there's plenty of people who are like, Nope, my, my boyfriend was just a starfish, just a fish like dead. They're just lying there doing nothing.

Kari:

I guess maybe, I don't know. I just, it's so funny that we feel like we have such different views on it.'cause for me, I'm like. Women don't say shit. Men, it's very obvious what they like, but now you're like, men just sit there and don't do anything. And that probably is, both of them are right, right? Like, yes, both of'em are right. It's just funny to, it's not about the gender,

Casey:

it's about the person. There's plenty of people that, well, if you

Kari:

were better at giving head to men, then maybe they wouldn't just lay there and maybe that wouldn't be your experience. And I

Casey:

already said, I have yet. I've already said I have not pleasured a penis yet. You have

Kari:

not yet. Have not either way. Honestly, it's not male or female. It's just are you finding the person that's communicating with you? Yeah. And if you're down there and you're fucking pleasure mapping and you're doing your job Yeah. As a person, receiving it isn't also your job to communicate.

Casey (2):

Mm-hmm.

Kari:

What you like and what you don't like.

Casey:

Yes.

Kari:

And it's not easy to do, but now that you've, now

Casey:

that you've diverted from answering the question enough,

Kari:

you're welcome. I was asking,

Casey:

I was asking you about like, what are your favorite ways to place your penis? Where, are there any specific moves where you're like, and I don't mean specifically for me. No. I, this can be of something where you're like, you know what I like doing?

Kari:

I, I think it is for me though, the, the being more theatric about it. Yeah. If, if my number one, that doesn't put me into a specific, like. Thing I'm doing on the penis. Yeah. But being theatrical, that would be my number one. Yeah.'cause all, but that comes with the entire time from start to finish. Mm-hmm. The looking up, the like so plenty

Casey:

of eye contact. Yeah.

Kari:

Eye contact. Using my hand, making sure there's saliva. If I don't have enough saliva, I know the part of my throat to go back to. Which, I mean that's honestly,

Casey:

that's a technique that maybe not all viewers are, are acquainted with.

Kari:

Yeah. So if your mouth just gets dry, just really deep throat. Fast and hard for like a few pumps, and it will start to build up your saliva. Activate

Casey:

your sal gland. Yeah, works. Now if you find yourself, if you find yourself that you're somebody that has an issue with going deeper, then there's a number of ways you can get around that go slow like y'all can side,

Kari:

side to side. You'd be surprised. You can go to the right side of your mouth. You not gag as much as if you go to the left side of your mouth,

Casey:

you are different just like your partner is.

Kari:

Yes. Like it doesn't seem like tiny little alterations, but it really does help. Yeah. There are times or positions, you're gonna have a better entry level depending on the position that you're in.

Casey:

Mm-hmm.

Kari:

So like when you and I are in the shower. I'm sitting down on our stool,

Casey:

on our blowjob stool,

Kari:

our blowjob stool. Then I can, you're straight level with me.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

I can give you head and you can go deep and it doesn't bother me. Mm-hmm. But if you're laying down in bed. I can't get as deep, right.'cause now I'm hovering over, I'm hunched over, I'm not getting the angle of being sitting up straight

Casey:

mm-hmm. With

Kari:

mouth just wide open. Yeah. You know,

Casey:

or like laying off the edge of the bed with, you know, head. That's another one that really good.

Kari:

But I, there's no control.

Casey:

No, that's, you're, that's what, that's, I'm the one that has control in that instance. At

Kari:

that point, you're just laying your head back. Yeah. That to me is not like giving hit. Yeah.

Casey:

If you still, if you're somebody that's like, well, I can't really deep throat, but I want to be able to have a lot of saliva for this, my, my advice drink something like a sugary beverage.

Kari:

Yeah.

Casey:

Uh, probably the top one's gonna be like, get a Gatorade.

Kari:

Gatorade. That really helps build up saliva.

Casey:

Get, get a Gatorade and like just start drinking it down and you'll notice that you'll start salivating a lot more, your saliva be a lot more viscous. You

Kari:

can also fake like,

Casey:

Hmm,

Kari:

I was gonna say fake

Casey:

pretend to vomit.

Kari:

No, I mean, like,

Casey:

I thought you gonna be like just.

Kari:

But kind of, because if you, if you're like going through a giving head and you build up your own like. Reflex a little bit. Mm-hmm. It does help produce more saliva. Yeah. You're not gonna like throw up on them, but it will help you produce more. S you

Casey:

can always saliva, you can always control and activate your own gag reflex. That's what I'm saying. Like you and take your own fingers and put'em, start to go a lot down your throat a little bit. You're in more control or you

Kari:

just use a dick to do that.

Casey:

Yes. But a dick doesn't have the dexterity of fingers. But how

Kari:

sexy is it? Hold on real fast.

Casey:

That's

Kari:

shoving my fingers down my throat. Well, yeah.

Casey:

When you do it like that,

Kari:

there's no other way to do it

Casey:

there. There's not only one way to do it, there's plenty of ways that you could do that. So

Kari:

you think it would be totally fine. I'm giving you head. We're in the moment. I say, hold on, and I shove my fingers down my throat. That to you, you're gonna be like, that's hot.

Casey:

I think when you describe it in such a way, no, it's not appealing, but I think that if somebody's gonna do it, and the, and it's communicated and explained why. Mm-hmm. There's no reason why you couldn't do it. There's not a reason why you couldn't do it. But like, look, I, and if you both understand I'm that, I'm trying, I'm trying to get some, some saliva going. You're just kind of push to the back of your throat with your fingers. Go for it.

Kari:

Yep. Or you just use the dick that's right in front of you. Listen, you haven't given head so you don't get to say on this,

Casey:

huh? Huh? First of all, we weren't even, we're talking about creating saliva and using your fingers, and you're talking about how disgusting you think it is. That's you. You're one person. Stop judging people for what they like. Carrie. Oh,

Kari:

I am saying. Is that if a girl needs to build up saliva, they're not gonna use their hands.

Casey:

It's a technique. It's one way to do it. There's many ways to do it. Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean other people might not be able to do it.

Kari:

Right? Penis owner,

Casey:

uhhuh,

Kari:

so. I'm gonna agree, disagree. No,

Casey:

we're, we're still mo we're still going on with, with not with that particular one, but

Kari:

yeah. A different one. But still we were, well, we're just dis

Casey:

dis No, just discussing ways in which you can pleasure a penis. I think that there's a lot of, a lot of people that are still like, well, wait a minute, what else? What else can I do? So what are some of your big tips?'cause you talked about eye contact. Theatrics. Saliva, yeah.

Kari:

Yeah. Being theatrical. But also it again is, it is exploring it. You have hands, you have a mouth. Yeah. You have one object, right? Like

Casey:

yeah. Three.

Kari:

Three. Well that's, no, you're right. Two

Casey:

testicles, one shaft

Kari:

and a butt hole. I was thinking the third was the butt hole. I was thinking like, dick ball I hole,

Casey:

I can go, I can go. Testicles shaft, head of the penis.

Kari:

There's four.

Casey:

Yeah. And per, per

Kari:

perm. You like that one?

Casey:

Permium. There you go. Yeah, that's a good one. Anus, all of these are areas, again, it's just,

Kari:

it is exploring inner

Casey:

thighs, legs. Like, well,

Kari:

that's the other thing. That's what I was about to say, is like, the thing is, is exploring it,

Casey:

create sensations, various types.'cause there

Kari:

are times that you don't, it's not just like, yes, I'm going down on you, but you love when I'm going down to you. But I also, like you said, touch your thigh, touch your stomach, touch your body. Because it is about like building, explore that whole level, uh, intimacy. And so you're sitting there asking like the best. Thing to do for head is, and that is it. It is literally exploring it, getting into the moment. Mm-hmm. That's what I was said about the theatrical, like getting into it and then just exploring it. Yeah. Because in my opinion, like a dick, you can't really go wrong. Right. Unless you're causing physical harm to it,

Casey:

like biting it,

Kari:

squeezing too hard. Some people are into that, but then again, right. They might be some people like, you know, cocking

Casey:

ball, torture,

Kari:

but you're not going to know that if you're not exploring it.

Casey:

Yeah. And

Kari:

then just to sit there and be like, I'm going to try something new on you that I've not done. I would really like your feedback.

Casey:

Step outta your comfort zone.

Kari:

Mm-hmm.

Casey:

Have the, have the conversation and it's completely okay.'cause we've talked about like the fact that sex doesn't need to be spontaneous. Oh, I get it. They show it all the time in fucking movies and, and TV shows. Oh, it should be spontaneous. In this whimsical thing. It's completely okay to schedule out. Performative acts with your partner. Hey, you know what we're gonna do? We're gonna sit down and I want to give you a blowjob, but I want to give you a blowjob and just kind of explore. Mm-hmm. And I want you to tell me things that you like what I'm doing, and things that if it may feel good, but it may not be your favorite, let's figure out the things that work really well for you.

Mm-hmm.

Casey:

Absolutely do that and make, make the plan to do it and sit down and do it and have a communication session about it, and then talk about it afterwards. Oh. What was some of your favorites? What are, what are the things that you, you'd like to see me do more?

Kari:

Mm-hmm. I just, it's so, it's crazy that couples don't ever think to sit down and discuss it because we always sit down and we discuss what our finances mm-hmm. Discuss, like what needs to happen that week, what's going on, like what our goals work, what does your work look

Casey:

like, what does mine look like?

Kari:

Very rarely do people sit down and be like, okay, this week these are the intimacy levels that I want us to have. Yeah. This is like, I know that this week I'm really stressed out and I'm really busy and I'm not gonna be able to, to be there sexually with you, but what are maybe some other things that we can do to like. Bring that into it, but to sit down and just like have those discussions again, we're talking about oral today. That's the biggest thing. If you can sit down and talk about your finances, why can't you sit down and talk about your, your oral pleasure? Yeah. Or the things that you like, or the things that you don't necessarily like. And I have found my own personal experience is to tell you the things that I didn't really like after the math.

Casey (2):

Yeah.'cause I

Kari:

would never, well, I, you know what I mean? Like, I would never want to sit there and make you feel insecure about something that you're doing. During it. Yeah. So if, Hey, stop that.

Casey:

I don't like it.

Kari:

Yeah, exactly. And if that's you, just because you don't feel comfortable saying it right then doesn't mean you can't bring it up later.

Casey:

And you can in the moment say things like, Hey, you know, go a little faster, a little slower. Move your here, do all that different. But

Kari:

you know, maybe it was like this whole, like, oh, you really went in

Casey:

and just, just maybe don't go like, Ooh, stop that.

Kari:

Ew, no. Ew. That would be so uncomfortable. Put it, pop on the head. Stop it. Don't do that again. Unless they're like, like bit your claim. You're like, no, but, but the whole point again is just,

Casey:

I mean we're, yeah. Let's, I think, why don't we go into there? You're talking about biting the clit. I think we should go into Volvo pleasures. Okay. After you, you had a point that you were about to make.

Kari:

I think you were, it

Casey:

sounded like a Jerry Springer's final thought coming on.

Kari:

Oh, it was not. Okay. Wasn't I was, I was leading into something else, but that's totally fine. I agree. We should say, because we talked about, like, we're talking about pleasuring penises.

Casey:

Yeah. Let's talk about pleasuring vulvas.

Kari:

What is, what is your tip?

Casey:

My biggest tips for those, um, one is one, one, take your time.

Kari:

Yeah.

Casey:

Like we, it's, it's a very common fact that women typically take a lot longer to fully arouse than men. We're talking like 15, 20, sometimes 30 minutes to become fully aroused. Uh, for a lot of women, foreplay is the main course. So treat it as such. Yeah. Um, whenever, whenever you start going down on a woman, you don't need to start directly at the vulva. You don't have to start, go into being like, I'm gonna shove my fingers inside you and do all this, and like, my goal is I'm gonna get you to come right now. Take your fucking time. Like explore a little bit. Mm-hmm. Like we already said, right? Take your hands. Rub, like, rub along the neck, the clavicles, go along the breast, move your way down. Make your way down. Kiss all over your partner. Mm-hmm. Show them how appreciated they are before you make your way down and actually start diving in and, and performing oral. Now, whenever you are actually performing oral, there's a few different things that you can do. Um, one, listen to their body. Uh, I do firmly believe that your, the way that you're, like, you're moving your legs the way that you are. Uh, I can feel the contractions of your muscles going, the, the quickness of your breath, the way that you moan and, and make noise. I feel like that's a decent indicator. Now, of course, I would love verbal cues. It's like, that feels good, you know, I like what you're doing. Don't stop doing that. Do it more, do it faster. Do it harder, whatever it needs to be.

Casey (2):

Yeah.

Casey:

Um. From there, there's a, there's a few different good techniques, like actual, like instructional techniques, because this, and in fact, let me sidestep for a second, because there was a, you remember the movie, was it American Pie? Mm-hmm. Back in the early two thousands, there was a scene in there. Where, uh, it was the, I I'm not gonna remember the actor's names, but the, the boyfriend was wanting to, he was gonna go down on his girlfriend. Mm-hmm. But he didn't know what the fuck he was doing.

Casey (2):

Yeah. And

Casey:

his brother instructed him to go to the library and there was like a secret hatch with a little door you could open that had a book in it. And inside this book was like, these are the things you need to do to make a girl come. Which you then went and performed on her and she had an orgasm. Mm-hmm. And so they made it look like, it's like, no, there's a, there's a method to it. Yeah. And the reality is, is there's no, there's not. Can you perform some of these acts? Sure. Can you swirl your tongue around more? Can you concentrate more on the clit? Can you concentrate more on the, the, the walls of the vagina? Mm-hmm. Can you go up to the front side or backside of the cervix? Yes. And you should do all of those things and then communicate with your partner if they like it or not. If they don't like it, maybe stop.

Kari:

Yeah.

Casey:

But ask them in the moment. Are there? Well,

Kari:

and also like a. Don't just ask, do you not like this?

Casey:

Yeah. Could it? Yeah.

Casey (2):

Could

Kari:

it be harder? How does, how does that feel? Could it be slower? Yeah. Could I add more pressure? Could I add less? Because just so they're saying, do you like this? That's really hard for anyone to answer. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So it could you be more specific with your questioning on Right. What it is that you're doing. Right.

Casey:

Does it feel good? Just a yes or no. You're like, oh, okay,

Kari:

yeah,

Casey:

great. I'm just gonna keep doing that. Mm-hmm. Right. So have that clear communication of being like a little more pressure or ease up just a little bit. Mm-hmm. I

Kari:

mean,

Casey:

going back to a penis pleasure, I've talked about you with that. With like hand grip.

Kari:

Mm-hmm.

Casey:

Like, hey, lighten up your grip a little bit.

Kari:

Yeah.

Casey:

I got really fucking

Kari:

strong hands. You've gotta tell me that. Kung

Casey:

fu grip, like real, real quick.

Kari:

I really strong hands

Casey:

out outside of that for, for somebody pleasuring a vulva. Figure out which, if you're going to be fingering them, figure out which fingers work best.

Casey (2):

Yeah, I

Casey:

mean, you're gonna, like, they may prefer it with like your, your, which one finger or two? They might prefer to have that like in and out motion versus like the come here motion where you curl the fingers over. They might like more pressure on the front wall of the vagina while you're doing that. Um, they might like to have their clits, uh, simultaneously stimulated at the same time. Um, you might want to use your fingers to finger them as well as using your tongue on their clit or anywhere else on their body during that time. Explore.

Kari:

Yeah, and like. Just do not forget nipples when

Casey:

ask your partner how they, like their nipples being played with, honestly, their breasts being harassed and massaged.

Kari:

That's one that I don't feel like is as common to be asked on truthfully. So that's another,

Casey:

they're, they're trying to concentrate on just the one area and they're neglecting an entire,

Kari:

but literally even women.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

I, I, I will like stimulate you a little bit on your nibbles whenever we're like being intimate and there are times where you're like. I can like

Casey (2):

Yeah, for sure. People

Kari:

that you like really like, and there are times where it's like, eh, whatever, but like. Exploration. It

Casey:

creates another pleasure pathway. Yeah. Like it's not all the same thing. They're all different sensations and they can all compound to like, I like that, achieve this like, really high level of pleasure. Mm-hmm. Um, there is one, oh, what was it called? The Kevin Method. I know we had gonna Yes, you can look it up. K-I-V-I-M. It's a, it's a, it's a method of, of pleasuring, a vulva in which instead of being right in front of the person mm-hmm. And so you'd be like, say, using a tongue, uh, going straight for them. You actually turn to the side. To where your tongue would be perpendicular to the vulva and then you can move the tongue back and forth. You're essentially taking like the labium manure and the clitoris and kind of pushing it side to side. Yeah. On one way. And I won that one. And that's supposed, that is supposed to be something that provides a higher level of pleasure. Have you done that? Yeah. A number of times on you. I have. Tell

Casey (2):

what you're doing.

Kari:

You know,

Casey:

a number of times on you. I mean, as long as you're having good time, then we're good. Right? That's

Kari:

saying, I, I can't always stop going down there with your tongue,

Casey:

but it's, it creates the communication portion of it that creates a whole new level, level of comfort. Yeah, and that's one of my biggest things is that I love it whenever we sit back and we're able to be like, enjoy the pleasure side of things, have a session where it's like a learning experience. Where I'm like, whoa, whatever you're doing right there. Like, keep doing that. Maybe go like a little bit faster and then you start doing it and I'm like. Just achieve like a whole new level of, of intimacy and pleasure. And it makes us feel closer together because we feel like we now know our, our we each other that much more intimately.

Kari:

And I think it's that we care to know each other that much

Casey:

more as you should. Like

Kari:

that. That's, I think a successful

Casey:

relationship is that's component. It's comprised of people that actually want actually just talking care and

Kari:

want to know these things about their partners

Casey:

that aren't gonna fall into. Just the same old routine of, and that that's one of the reasons why so many sexual relationships fall off is'cause they fall into routine. They're not continuously learning and growing. They fall into that rut of, well, I know how to make'em come, so I'm just gonna do that real quick and then I'm gonna roll over and go to sleep. There's no fun in that. It's not making your sex life boring.

Kari (2):

Have

Casey:

some fun. You were in

Kari (2):

charge of it.

Casey:

Yeah, you both are.

Kari (2):

Yeah.

Casey:

Y'all sit down. If you're not satisfied with your sex life, sit down and talk to your partner and be like, look, the biggest reason we're not having sex right now is for a few reasons. One of them is that our sex is boring. Like we gotta pop one off real quick in the back room and then just go about our lives. Like figure out ways that you can create more entertainment in your sex life and through oral play is a great one. And guess what? It doesn't even have to be about coming. You wanna, you wanna sit there and tease your partner, edge them for a while and make that throughout the day or throughout a couple of days, you're gonna create some pretty intense emotions there. Yeah. If you just continue to bring them towards the edge, but no orgasm. Come on. It creates some cool stuff.

Kari:

It really does it, it creates a lot. Um, so with that, yeah, go home Edge, your partner all the time. Never let'em come and let us know how that works. All the time. Never, not once. Time down.

Casey (2):

Let, how

Kari:

long do you think you could go, like torturous of being,

Casey:

of being edged?

Kari:

Yeah, like just, I'm gonna like how long do you think you could like actually go?

Casey:

I. I like to set goals. So I mean, if I set a goal, you gonna test

Kari:

this out?

Casey:

Yeah, sure. You wanna, you wanna like make a bet on Eric? I know. I was like, I really wanna

Kari:

know like what would be your like fuck this. I'm done. I'm asking you to make out.

Casey:

Alright, so, so we're gonna do this, we're gonna report back next week.

Kari:

Okay. Or two weeks.'cause right now we're on two, two weeks right now we're on

Casey:

two week episodes.

Kari:

Yeah.

Casey:

So we'll report back in two weeks to see if I actually,

Kari:

so my guess is gonna be like five days. Five days.

Casey:

That's a long time. It is.

Kari:

It's,

Casey:

and that's, and that means I can't make myself come either. No, no,

Kari:

no, no, no, no, no, you cannot. It's only through me edging you until the time that I let you come. But

Casey:

I'm

Kari:

gonna go like five days. Are we, are we, are we betting

Casey:

on, is this like a betting thing? I don't

Kari:

know how to do this because we just,

Casey:

we're gonna be following you around the house. Like, come on, just please, please talk about empowerment. I know, right? Do the dishes. Let me come, come on. Um, I would, I would probably, I, I think that that five days was being fairly liberal. No, I would, I would ally like three. I would, I would probably, I will go four. Okay. I'm saying three. I'm, I'm gonna call it at four.

Casey (2):

Shit.

Casey:

Okay. Four day. What does it say? Monday. Wanna get

Casey (2):

started on this? We

Casey:

we're gonna start tomorrow. Today's count. Okay. I

Casey (2):

about to say, uh, we're gonna start that tomorrow.

Casey:

Four days. We're gonna call it four days. We'll report back in two weeks and see how it went.

Kari:

Okay.

Casey:

How about you?

Kari:

Me? Yeah. Are you

Casey:

participating in this? You're gonna,

Kari:

you're

Casey:

gonna withhold.

Kari:

I'm not like that though.

Casey:

Okay.

Kari:

You can withhold and I don't come, I don't care. It

Casey:

doesn't

Kari:

bother me. I, I don't like, coming to me is not, I wouldn't be like the response you're having no

Casey:

eding edging. Edging. And now you're like, fuck, I need it. I want to come. Yeah. I

Kari:

don't, I don't know that, I don't think that's a woman to male thing. I think that's just my personal thing.

Casey:

Yeah.

Kari:

Um,

Casey:

I mean, I agree with you. I don't think it's, I don't think it's a gender thing. Yeah. I think it's a, I don't think, I think it's a personal,

Kari:

yeah. I just think for me, I'm like, nah, it can be edge then, whatever. Yeah.

Okay.

Kari:

No, I'd be curious how long I could go without having any type of physical touch. That would be something that I'd be curious about. That just sounds sad. I know. I was about to say, but then like, where's the fun? And you'd get a even out, I feel like

Casey:

you would get depressed. Like, nobody's touched me in days. Yeah.

Kari:

I, I would be curious how long that would actually like. Take for it to. But anyways,

Casey:

we're not doing that psychological experiment. I

Kari:

don't wanna do that one.

Casey (2):

That's, that's

Casey:

just sad.

Casey (2):

It's fun. Mine

Kari:

is sad.

Casey:

Well, starting tomorrow we're gonna go, we're gonna see if we can do a four day edge. Edge, see what happens. I'd be curious to know what other people have done in the past. I'm sure there's people that are like, we Ed for two weeks. Like, great. I, I applaud you for that. That's not my preference. Yeah. But anyway, we'll see what happens. So for another episode of Naughty By Nature, we're your hosts. I'm Dr. Casey Sanders. And

Kari:

I'm just Carrie.

Casey:

And we'll see you next time.

People on this episode

Contributor

Dr. Casey Sanders

Co-host
Contributor

Kari Sanders

Co-host

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